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anative Offline OP
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I appreciate your suggestion lovely & joe.
I think my wife don't even concern about what respect what doesn't. She just has to go see him. She knew what she did hurt me badly but she can't stop. She is addicted.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Whether to continue hugging/connecting physically (or letting it lead to something more) is an intensely personal choice.

My DB coach said the concerns are 2 fold. SOME WAS's (or their affair partners)
really do risky behavior and you have to wonder about sexually transmitted diseases,

Second, how you feel afterwards. Do you feel closer, or sort of used?

Finally, what did you mean when you said you "ignored her" and "did not pay attention to her"? Was it you being complacent or neglectful or cold?

What would you wife say if she were here? And is the unrealistic parts of this (she and OM cannot live in the same country??) - does that make it "safer" for her, do you think?

Or is that going to change? OR is she going to just live under the same roof as you, as friends, and staying till your d14 leaves? I mean, without asking her, what do you think her "Plan" is??




I felt good when I hugged and kissed her. I can still feel the love, but it hurts me more when she has to go see OM later on. So, I stopped physical contact of any type with her since I posted this thread. I've never slept with anyone else since I got marriage with my wife, however, I slept with 3 different women this month and I will keep doing it until her affair ended. I'm not proud of it. I'm not happy about it. But I think by doing this will get me past the images of what my wife and OM are doing if we got a chance to get back together later.

Sometime, I think about it as a "Hall Pass" for both of us. Sometime, I think about it as it is her vagina she can do whatever to her organs, now she just go out and masterbate with the real penis.

When I look at her right now I don't see my wife anymore. I don't see her inner beauty, I don't see her physical appearance no more. I only see a poor woman that lost in a fantasy world of her own imagination.

By ignoring her and did not pay attention mean:
I was not the one who start the conversation. I talked no more than I have to. I answered her briefly. I was not sit around waiting for her actions I was not try to analys her feeling. I only care for her only when it comes to her safety or health.

From what my wife said earlier when I asked her if she could put anyone in any position what would she does:

She said: We will continue live together. No one has to know about OM. She will go meet her OM once in a while. May be every 2-3 months. After our daughter finish her high school in next 5 years, we will tell her about my wife's relationship. Get divorce. Split money, not 50/50 but more than enough for me to start over. However, if thing didn't work out between her and OM, she will come back to me and start working on the marriage again.

She also aware that by the time her affair ended, I might not love her anymore or may be found someone else already. "If we meant to be together we will be together again" she said.

It sounds selfish but like I said "If she could do anything she wants."

She is still love me I know it, I can feel it, but her feeling for me just has been blocked by her feeling on OM. OM got insecure from time to time because he knew that me and my wife are live and still doing thing together. They fight a lot about this matter too. I just have to find the way to destroy their affair wisely.

Me and my wife are building the new house together. It should be done by next year. I'm included in her plan. She want me stay if I could. OM also bought a condo here under my wife's name. He already made a down payment and he will wired money to her every month for monthly payment. So, she will have 2 houses next year.

Their affair won't last 5 years. They're not gonna make it. I knew my wife and I knew him(OM). I just have to treat this situation carefully without doing any more damage?

Is doing 180 enough for me?

I will keep on posting. You all are god to me.

Regards,


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
Joined: Sep 2017
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anative Offline OP
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I stopped reading her texts a while. However, OM will leave at the end of this week. I wanna know their plan so just a peep won't hurt. I think.

She can't drive to stay over night with him no more because everyone starts to question her as she never go anywhere without me before. OM told her that he will come to see my wife this Thursday before he fly on Friday. I want to accidentally make this meeting hard for her. I am trying to make plan with people around that date so she has to lie more before she can go.

Is this pursuing and not detaching? or, Should I just act like I don't know their plan?


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
Joined: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted By: anative
I stopped reading her texts a while. However, OM will leave at the end of this week. I wanna know their plan so just a peep won't hurt. I think.


I'm sorry, I don't know what this^^^ means.


She can't drive to stay over night with him no more because everyone starts to question her as she never go anywhere without me before. OM told her that he will come to see my wife this Thursday before he fly on Friday. I want to accidentally make this meeting hard for her.

If you want to set a boundary (and ONLY do this if you are going to enforce the boundary -) then do it.

What is with the "accidentally" making the meeting hard? Why not set a boundary like telling her you tell her you are going to leave her Or file for divorce

IF she goes to meet him,

OR ignore it and be the better choice?



I am trying to make plan with people around that date so she has to lie more before she can go.

I don't know what you mean. You want to set her up to lie?


Is this pursuing and not detaching? or, Should I just act like I don't know their plan?


well it is Not detaching. And you are taking action to obstruct their affair.

But I know that betrayal is very hard. And it's a very hard line to draw.

I just worry you are driving yourself nuts with trying to control the results here. Sometimes we have to let go to save ourselves and take a chance that our spouse will get it,

but if they don't, at least we won't be spinning anymore.

And to be fair, there are some important things for you to work on as a h. The more you work on those, the better you will be and feel, no matter what else She does.

Do you get that?



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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anative Offline OP
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Hi 25.

I'm sorry, I don't know what this^^^ means.


I read her text this morning to see what is her plan this week because it is OM's last week before he go back to USA.

What is with the "accidentally" making the meeting hard?

If I interfered my wife directly it'd be an argument. If I didn't do anything, it'd be like I allowed her. So, I guess this is why I feel like I have to do something to make this incoming meeting not easy for her by using other people or other situations.

Why not set a boundary like telling her you tell her you are going to leave her Or file for divorce. IF she goes to meet him, OR ignore it and be the better choice?

I don't want to end up D so I might have to forget about setting boundary because she will let me leave. I can answer this myself. I am better than her OM no matter in what standard. BUT...How can I be a better choice to my W's eyes because she didn't even put me in the choice??? She might see me as a choice again after she ended her affair first. Otherwise, she don't even bother consider.

So, the answer is ignore her affair. Isn't it?

If the only thing I can do to my wife that might safe my marriage is ignoring her affair, that what I'm gonna do.

I deeply appreciate you concern "25". Please don't give up on helping me. I know that sooner or later I will blow it and come back here to hear you say "I told you not to do!!!".

But, I will do my best.
Thanks


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
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Originally Posted By: anative
Hi 25.

I'm sorry, I don't know what this^^^ means.


I read her text this morning to see what is her plan this week because it is OM's last week before he go back to USA.

What is with the "accidentally" making the meeting hard?

If I interfered my wife directly it'd be an argument.

yes and it would look like you are trying to control her (which would be true).


If I didn't do anything, it'd be like I allowed her.


First, it's not for you "to allow" your adult wife to do anything. Not blocking her from her mistakes, is not the same as saying it's all fine. You are under the illusion it is up to you to "allow"

AND

Second, you also seem to think that IF she is not stopped, it means you are okay with all this?


- No she will never think that^^.


She's a grown woman. I know it stinks and I know how betrayal feels. (I get it.)

But you need to let go of the illusion that you control anything she does or says or thinks. Back off, and become the better choice - so that regardless of what she does or says, you are better off anyhow.

I am not clear on what you are doing to improve as a man. Hey, I am not saying that is easy or that you "should" have to compete.

It's not really a context even though it feels like one. But you did say your wife had reason to feel unhappy in the marriage.

And so when you pretend you have control over her, your focus is misplaced.

Do the work YOU NEED TO DO - on you & for YOU.

Learn and do what it takes to become a happy, healthy, strong man of faith & honor.

And when you know deep down, that you have done all the work you needed to do to become the man YOU want to be, the best YOU that you can be,

Then turn your marriage over to God & hold your head high.

Until that time^^ arrives, you have work to do

to control the only person in this situation whom you really can and should control - You.

The rest of this is just you angrily spinning, and that takes away the energy you COULD be spending on the real work here, the only work that matters, which is you becoming the man you were meant to become.



[/color]

I don't want to end up D so I might have to forget about setting boundary because she will let me leave. I can answer this myself.


^^ouch. I know that hurts.


I am better than her OM no matter in what standard. BUT...How can I be a better choice to my W's eyes because she didn't even put me in the choice???


well, in HER mind (which is all that matters for now)

she believes that being married to you was not happy and she did not imagine that it could be happy. Maybe she did not know there was "better out there", but when she met OM, she decided she'd be happier with him or she preferred how he treats her, etc.

The question NOW is how to you go forward to GAL, Detach and become more attractive b/c you move on and let her see that you are a good catch. Again, have you read the Div Busting of Div Remedy book? The book IS VITAL to read so you can get all the information you need.

These online boards are great but if you don't have the terminology or concepts really mastered, you will miss a lot.

IN MY OPINION, just my gut instinct and my experience with mothers who have had affairs but did not have a wife beater for a h

most women with children, would prefer making their marriages to the father of her children, work. Most want to feel deeply loved and valued by the man who she married and has a family with.

If that man is too angry to help her feel that way, the marriage ends. ALSO, spouses need to respect each other (or no one will feel valued). When a wife loses some of the respect she has for her h,

it undermines the marriage. Sometimes the respect factor is what the h needs to feel about himself (like if he loses his job and gets depressed and is negative, he has lost his own self respect and that spills over to the marriage. That is not really about HER

though it affects her choices and responses. Does this^^ make sense to you?

(I am only making a general point, not aiming it specifically at you).




She might see me as a choice again after she ended her affair first. Otherwise, she don't even bother consider.

This^^^ is backwards.

(When people say "end the A first" they mean telling the WAW "end the A first BEFORE we can Reconcile", ...but your wife does not (yet) want to reconcile so you cannot just wait for the A to end - and THEN then hope she looks your way

AND THEN hope you suddenly become the man of her dreams b/c THEN you will start the work you need to do now. ??


This would mean you wait around for her to end the A or you try to end it INSTEAD of doing the work you admit you need to do to become a better h.

She thinks she knows your qualities and flaws. And she prefers OM. (ouch, i know)

You have to show her that you are better than she realizes. (Or you are becoming better)
Don't wait for that to fizzle out and just sit there hoping you win the "Pick Me" dance.

Who were you when she fell in love with you? What were you like then? Get back to being THAT guy, or even better.

Stop putting all your focus on the A.

Put it ALL ON YOU b/c you must show her YOUR VALUE by believing in it, AND

by becoming the man you were meant to become.

You don't become the better choice by tearing him down, but by lifting yourself UP.




So, the answer is ignore her affair. Isn't it?

If the only thing I can do to my wife that might safe my marriage is ignoring her affair, that what I'm gonna do.

It is not exactly ignoring - it's you putting your energy where it can make a difference, i.e. in you.

And those who urge you to "make sure she ends it" are getting ahead of themselves. Your wife is not interested in working things out r right now.
She is not asking you to reconcile or trust her, etc. She is certainly not going to end it now.

SOME would argue "well, then kick her out b/c she's having an affair." While I understand that, you want the marriage to work out, you want this woman as your wife so as long as that is how you feel, then work on you

until if and when your wife wants to recommit. THEN we can deal with the departure of OM. Make sense?

IF & When she wants to reconcile (which is many steps away from now) then you make sure the Affair is over BEFORE YOU will recommit to marriage with her.


Meanwhile you are out GAL and Detaching and being mysterious b/c you have just realized what a great catch YOU ARE and you are happy to discover the interests and hobbies and friends and family you love and who love you.

Let her wonder why you are quietly confident and content now...

(BTW Have you read the "#7 Rules" Sandi assembled? (Not all apply but it's a good start for you to have around as a guide).


I deeply appreciate you concern "25". Please don't give up on helping me. I know that sooner or later I will blow it and come back here to hear you say "I told you not to do!!!".

But, I will do my best.
Thanks


I don't say things like that and neither would Sandi. We might wonder if our words were read, cool

but no rubbing your face in a painful error.


sidenote


I once asked my DB coach about the unfairness of these circumstances, and WAS not seeing consequences of their behaviors and the WAS 'cake eating', etc.

My DB coach said "25, to an extent all WAS's 'cake eat' by virtue of being here, b/c the WAS does not think they want to be married! The LBS does, so temporarily there will be cake eating.
In a restored marriage, later on, that won't continue."

DB coach also said "It is not the job of a spouse to 'teach a lesson!' to their partner. It is not the job of a spouse to 'show them the consequences of their bad choices".
.
Life teaches all of us lessons, Life gives out the consequences. So we can stop taking on that job,

b/c it never was our job.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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Here -

"RULES" FOR DIVORCE BUSTING DB 37 RULES

I copied and pasted this, and held it in my pocket for months. I read them daily. You may want to do the same.

Sandi assembled them, based on MWD’s teachings and experience here. These are really GUIDELINES ONLY (Not all will apply to your situation, and if something does not work after you have given it enough time, then adjust).


1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse. That hurts your long term interests even if it feels good to complain about her.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay, regardless. Keep a good attitude.


13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. You are getting a little excited about your future.


18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back because your spouse will eventually realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected.
Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.


21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel & if were were great mind readers, we would not be here!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
Consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise and over drinking happens often, which is NOT going to help.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 57
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I'd like to tell you my background before all this happened.

I was a graduate student in USA while I got my wife pregnant. I worked part-time and sold stuffs on eBay. I made enough money for us three.

Unfortunately, we came back here, I worked with her family. I feel that nothing was mine. I started to look for another business opportunities for myself for us. Then, she told me, I don't have to look for anything else, this is our business together.

She was working very hard, raising my daughter, doing housework. She was so stress. I didn't help her much back then. I felt like living in the cage. I just want to get out, be independent. We fought a lot on the first 5 yrs.

5 yrs later I kinda got use to living in this safety cage. I stopped looking for anything else to do. Just stayed in business. We tried to have another kid. We went to the doctor and failed many time 'til we gave up.

Last five years was OK to me. However, she suffered the pain(bones problem) from trying to have a baby. I let her stay home, went to the doctor with my driver. I took care of business. However, she kept saying that she was getting tired of this business and she wanted out. She want to go live in USA. I ignored her complaint.

Then one day, she told me that I should find my own business. Be apart and she wanted to be in an open relationship.

This is some of her complaints

1. I never helped her anything on first 5yrs.
2. I wanted to have kid without caring about her health.
3. I didn't take her to see the doctor by myself.
4. I always take our daughter to every vacation.
5. People said, I'm looked younger than her.
6. My family don't love her.
7. I didn't find anything else to make more income.
8. I ignored her request of going to USA.
9. We see each other too much.
10. I cannot change. ETC....


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 57
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Here - "RULES" FOR DIVORCE BUSTING DB 37 RULES
(Not all will apply to your situation, and if something does not work after you have given it enough time, then adjust).


Quick question on the "RULES"

The only changed around the house is that we don't have sex no more. Everything else, she seems OK.

Let say, she will file a divorce sooner or later anyway.

Can I spend this time kiss, embrace, take care, have fun with her, make my daughter happy and forget about her A, while maintain the "GAL", "Detachment", and "RULES" ???

Not that I don't want to follow, I just want to clarify my thought.

Regards,


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
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Originally Posted By: anative

Let say, she will file a divorce sooner or later anyway.

Can I spend this time kiss, embrace, take care, have fun with her, make my daughter happy and forget about her A, while maintain the "GAL", "Detachment", and "RULES" ???


There's something we call "cake-eating" around here, it's where a WAS wants to "have their cake and eat it too". Basically it means they want to keep living a family life with their LBS, but then they want to go off and have their exciting fling with OP as well. Typically when a WAS allows this to happen their situation goes into a long and painful (for them) limbo. So if you do that, your situation is unlikely to change or get better, you'll just get stuck in a rut where you are bending over backwards to make W happy while she remains perfectly content to keep engaging in an A.

So in DB'ing terms, we usually suggest people in your sitch do NOT kiss, embrace and do fun things with their affair partner. It's much better for you to cut her off as much as possible and get out and get a life independent of her. Make it clear to her through your actions that you're not going to sit idly by being plan B for her. Show her what she is missing- a fun, happy, busy you.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
So in DB'ing terms, we usually suggest people in your sitch do NOT kiss, embrace and do fun things with their affair partner. It's much better for you to cut her off as much as possible and get out and get a life independent of her. Make it clear to her through your actions that you're not going to sit idly by being plan B for her. Show her what she is missing- a fun, happy, busy you.


Loud & clear.
Thank you so much.


H43/W43/OM52
M15 w/D14
Live & work together/ OM oversea.
EA: Feb,17
PA: Apr,17
(10days/Apr,3wks/Jul,twice a wk/Sep,3days/Feb18)
OM away, WW ended A/ wants reconcile, Me being pursued.
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