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A Message from Michele
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#2761153 - 09/12/17 06:09 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: bttrfly]
AndrewP Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 1298
Loc: Canada
bttrfly - Great topic. I look forward to what those with more time under their belts have to say.

I must say that for myself that I feel rather disillusioned with the whole DB philosophy at least as far as for people in my sort of circumstance goes.

These days I believe that for many of our spouses that they have set their feet on a path that was pre-ordained for them and has nothing to do with us. I hoped for her to have an epiphany, an awakening if you will. What happened instead from what little i can see is that she awoke to become the person that she has always been. One that she had buried deep inside her but who would poke their head up from time to time. Her feet are firmly on that path despite the appearance of the occasional stumble. She may indeed get her "happily ever after" with her guy and his bank account. I have no way of knowing at present and I am quickly ceasing to care. Does that perhaps make me a bad person? I sometimes struggle with that question.

I'm sure that a number of people here who were kind enough to have followed my story will disagree with this bit. I should have not kept "standing" for so long and should have started walking sooner. I'd be in a different place and possibly more healed.

One of the challenges though is that this is essentially a peer support place with some fabulous volunteers that gathers up the flotsam and jetsam of broken marriages. The flotsam can at times be gathered up and rejoin the ship. This is from what I've seen of those who post for more than a week or so is incredibly rare. The jetsam has been tossed aside and needs to find it's own far shore. We attempt to apply standard and generally healthy techniques to a wide variety of situations. Regardless of whether the issue is that the couple is less loving than they used to be, the WAW who has methodically and carefully planned everything out, the spouse has run off and had a wild set of affairs and made poor decisions, or as in my case the spouse who has accepted a "better offer" from someone new, the same prescription is applied to what are perhaps rather different diseases.

Your core question though seems to be about our former spouses, not ourselves. It would appear from where we sit that many of them are on a self-destructive path. Most of us have tried to "save" them without success. Will they actually self-destruct? Will they turn back to the love and support they once had from us the LBS? There really is no way to know.

Just my thoughts.
_________________________
On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-09/03/16
08/01/17-I give up

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#2761162 - 09/12/17 06:42 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: bttrfly]
kml Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 13345
Yet sometimes the ex is still angry, sometimes even more angry than before.

Is it possible that part of the MLCr journey post divorce is an increase in rage towards the LBS because the MLCr's grand plan for happiness failed spectacularly?
Yes. And if ONLY you could have MADE them happy they never would have had to do it. OR if you had just left without taking a penny, they could be rich and happy.

It's almost like the MLCr needs the misplaced anger towards the spouse as further fuel for the crisis.
Yes. Anger keeps them from focusing on their own actions.
Does that anger move them further along in the tunnel?
Not really, it just keeps them from facing their own demons.

Does that anger keep them spinning indefinitely?
Everyone is different. Unbeknownst to me, my ex (bad at math) thought he was paying me 40% of his income in alimony, when it was only 11% after taxes. That fueled his anger I'm sure, but he of course can't admit his mistake even when I did the math for him.

Does the anger act as some mechanism to keep the MLCr from accepting personal responsibility for their part in the destruction of the family?
Exactly. Also, their depression wasn't relieved by the divorce, so they're still depressed. Wherever you go, there you are!

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#2761176 - 09/12/17 07:07 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: kml]
Sotto Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/14
Posts: 5162
I have no idea if my XH may be angry or not as I see and hear virtually nothing of him!

What I do see is that his behaviour towards me at the end was verging on contemptuous. I can see that he may feel unhappy about our financial settlement.

He has two failed marriages and a much younger partner now. He has no R with me and our D seemed to worsen his R with his ex W1. I know he lost a couple of good friends along the way too..his S spends much less time with him and feels some resentment about the big changes to his life.

I don't think any of that is a great place to be. It's not somewhere I would choose to be and I don't envy his lot.

But that said, he is still in a R with OW (and maybe still quite 'loved up') and he has 'new' friends, so he may feel in a reasonable place - IDK and I guess time will tell.

The way I see it is that's all for him to own and I try and own my stuff and not worry too much about his. If his life turns in my direction again at some point, I'll cross that bridge and worry about it at that point...

Xx
_________________________
T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus

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#2761235 - 09/12/17 11:49 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: AndrewP]
Gordie Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/16
Posts: 1462
Loc: USA
AndrewP--I think you hit he nail on the head!
_________________________
At BD:
Me 40s, W 40s, M20+, lots of kids
2011-2015 W's MLC begins: new look, friends, beliefs, job
2016 BD - W doesn't want to be married anymore
2017 - W files

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#2761238 - 09/12/17 12:18 PM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: Sotto]
bttrfly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 1891
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Job
the divorce decree is nothing more than a piece of paper and now they have more responsibilities than they had when they were in a relationship. They now have to pay their own rent/mortgage, utilities, they soley have the upkeep on their new digs and if they have lawns, they have them to look after as well. Also, if they were spending money too freely along their journey, they have those bills to pay all by their lonesome. They also have alimony and, in some cases, alimony to pay. They can't see more than 2 inches in front of them and they never thought about what all is involved when a relationship breaks up.


Hi Job, thanks for the response. Yes - it seems that we see repeatedly that the MLCr in just about every situation cannot comprehend that there will be consequences for their actions towards their LBS and families. They convince themselves that they deserve what they want (freedom), that their kids are resilient and will be unaffected, that their money situation will magically improve, etc. Madness.

Sometimes I think it's because they hurt so much inside that they go into a survive or die mode, and they think that the only way they can survive is to bail.

Originally Posted By: AndrewP
She may indeed get her "happily ever after" with her guy and his bank account. I have no way of knowing at present and I am quickly ceasing to care. Does that perhaps make me a bad person? I sometimes struggle with that question.


Hi Andrew, thanks so much for stopping by. No, I don't think it makes you a bad person. I think when one is hurt deeply, as we LBS inevitably are by BD, that after a while the hurt is so great it's self preservation to go to a place of not caring any more. It's normal, and one could say healthy, in my opinion.

Originally Posted By: AndrewP
I'm sure that a number of people here who were kind enough to have followed my story will disagree with this bit. I should have not kept "standing" for so long and should have started walking sooner. I'd be in a different place and possibly more healed.


Ellie, thanks for the input. Loved your post in its entirety.

{{{{{Sotto}}}}} Yes, we have no way of knowing what's on their side of the street, and must focus on maintaining our own side's integrity. I do agree - better to be us than them!

xoxoxo all
_________________________
M 20+ T25+
BD April 6, 2015
D Final 12/23/16

Gratitude, love, compassion, humor, service

"Faith in action is LOVE and Love in action is SERVICE."
-Mother Teresa

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#2761287 - 09/13/17 02:46 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: bttrfly]
bttrfly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 1891
Loc: Massachusetts
^^^ Andrew, on that second quote -- darn I wish for an edit button. I wanted to comment on it, not just quote it - I've spent some time wondering about the what ifs and what I've concluded is that we simply have no way of really knowing for sure where we'd be now if we did things differently - would we be in a better place, would we be further along in our journeys?

We'll never know.

My mom keeps telling me I have to let go so I can move on. She's not wrong. Lately when I reflect back on different incidents that happened in my marriage I think about these red flags that would go up, then get glossed over. In my case, so much can be tied to the fluctuating thyroid levels, but there was always the underlying main issue: I married a man who didn't get his basic needs met in his childhood.

So, my current perspective is that everybody has experiences which affect them, shape them. One is either actively working to become a better person or not.

I think we've all married people in the latter category.

It doesn't make them bad people so much as limited people.

My mother said it this morning, "You're free now. What are you going to do with your freedom? Don't waste it!"

xoxoxo
_________________________
M 20+ T25+
BD April 6, 2015
D Final 12/23/16

Gratitude, love, compassion, humor, service

"Faith in action is LOVE and Love in action is SERVICE."
-Mother Teresa

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#2761320 - 09/13/17 05:04 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: bttrfly]
pinn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/15
Posts: 868
Loc: North East US
Originally Posted By: bttrfly


My mother said it this morning, "You're free now. What are you going to do with your freedom? Don't waste it!"



Heck yea!! Go get em!
_________________________
M:mid 30's
W: mid 30's

BD: 6/28/15
She moved out: 7/23/15
Yesterday's gone, tomorrow is not here... what am I doing right now??

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#2761383 - 09/13/17 09:39 AM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: pinn]
bttrfly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 1891
Loc: Massachusetts
who, looks around ... me???

nah. nobody to go get!

I've had a bit of a tough day. I"m looking for some important paperwork and I found a bunch of old photos, including childhood photos of exh and his family.

I guess when you spend 26 years with someone that's bound to happen.

ugh.

and also our divorce nisi document, the final decree and our agreement, which I actually had to read as reference for what I'm working on. Again, UGH, only instead of being sad with the agreement, I got really REALLY angry. I know that's better than being depressed but really I long for the day when I will remain unfazed. Today is apparently not going to be that day.

I'm supposed to go to a networking event tonight, but I don't want to - I'm making progress here and want to keep going so I can finish what I took the day off to complete.

back to the grindstone.
_________________________
M 20+ T25+
BD April 6, 2015
D Final 12/23/16

Gratitude, love, compassion, humor, service

"Faith in action is LOVE and Love in action is SERVICE."
-Mother Teresa

Top
#2761404 - 09/13/17 01:13 PM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: bttrfly]
AndrewP Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 1298
Loc: Canada
bttrfly - accept your anger. Embrace it and know that it is contained within you.

Know that it doesn't define you but that it is just one facet of the jewel that is you.
_________________________
On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-09/03/16
08/01/17-I give up

Top
#2761415 - 09/13/17 02:33 PM Re: What I've Learned So Far ... [Re: AndrewP]
bttrfly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 1891
Loc: Massachusetts
thx Andrew. You are right, and thanks for that. I talked to a friend about the anger. I should back up a bit. One of exh's most hurtful criticisms of me was my weight - I'm not as thin as he wanted me to be. In fact, the exact words, "You would be a knockout if you could just lose the weight," still resonate in an ugly chorus.

However, while before I believed the story he was telling, now when I see photos of myself, like the ones I found today, I think, "WTH was wrong with him and wth was wrong with me for believing him?"

I found two photos of myself with our boy, dates are on the photos, I'm 40 in these pictures. I know what I weighed. I think I look fine, dare I even say, lovely. He's got the problem. It became mine because I believed him.

I'm angry at myself for believing him. I'm angry at him for blowing up our family. I'm so angry about that!!!!!

I'm worried about our son, who is forever changed by this. BOY am I angry about that, too! I worked so hard to provide our son with a stable, happy life, structure, what we all want for our children. I'm angry that was blown up. I'm livid actually.

wow. to actually say that is a relief.

thus, progress. not comfortable, but progress nonetheless.

As for my self image - well, I'd like to lose weight but for myself, so I can feel better, more flexible, and not for him or anyone else. And it will happen. I've no doubt.
_________________________
M 20+ T25+
BD April 6, 2015
D Final 12/23/16

Gratitude, love, compassion, humor, service

"Faith in action is LOVE and Love in action is SERVICE."
-Mother Teresa

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