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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2739632#Post2739632

Not sure if I should regret this action or not. But after the poem to OM and trying to clean out the house incident. I told W that due to her actions, she was officially done with her and she was nothing to me. Well aware that was harsh and some might say that drove her further to OM. But at that point this woman had disrespected me at every turn. And it seemed that OM or whatever other man she is dealing with already had her. The fear of her running to another man wasn't there, because at that point she was already messing around.

She mentioned that I said a lot of stuff to her, which she was clearly bothered by. But at this point, I don't care about her feelings. Every time I show an ounce of weakness and concern for W, I get kicked in the teeth. My only concern is S13 and myself, because clearly she is stuck in this fantasy where bills and financial obligations mean nothing. Where I am left to decide on what to do with this home and everything in it. So I probably shouldn't have said what I said to W.

But it was true and at the end of the day, I probably needed to say that in order to move on with my life. Right now, I need to come up with a brand new plan for my future without W. And that's going to be partially determined on what I do with this house. I know that we are not supposed to make decision while in an emotional state. But I really don't have time at this point for things to settle down. I meet with this lawyer tomorrow and will likely go ahead and file for divorce. Once lawyers get involved, then W will have no choice bu t to handle business.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Not sure if I should regret this action or not. But after the poem to OM and trying to clean out the house incident. I told W that due to her actions, she was officially done with her and she was nothing to me. Well aware that was harsh and some might say that drove her further to OM.


Is this something you've been thinking about a long time or did it just kind of come out of nowhere? How did you feel afterwards, relieved or upset or something else?

Quote:
But it was true and at the end of the day, I probably needed to say that in order to move on with my life.


Sometimes that's what it takes. That's really kind of what TXHubby did, and for the same reason- to save himself. In his case it brought his W out of the fog, but there's no guarantees that will happen so doing something like this has to be done for yourself, not as a trick to save the M. And it sounds like you are doing it for you, and that is OK.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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AnotherStander,

It came out of nowhere. But it had been building up for a long time. When I said what I did. I had finally just accepted that everything good and decent about mtvW was gone. It was literally like talking to someone I can't stand to look at. I felt upset, but also just done with this whole thing. There was just this feeling of not being able to think of one reason to be with her.

I am currently at the best I have been in a decades physically. And she is at her worst treating me like I am nothing. Mentally I am at my best. And W mentally is a damn wreck. And yet judging me. At that moment there was nothing attractive about physically or mentally. W just came off extremely fake with her b.s. motivational FB post as well. I don't deal with people like this period. So why do I want a W who displays this type of behavior.


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Alright, I am wondering how to respond to W. Normally my W emails me newsletters from her job. Normally she'll do so when she sees article that my help me out in some way. Haven't received one in awhile and Didn't expect anything since things are crazy between us.

So this morning I received an email with this newsletter. Not trying to look deep into it. But why suddenly out of nowhere I get this. Also a mutual friend of ours brought up that W still had picture la if he at work. Including a wedding photo. Once trying not to look deep into this. For all I know she might be acting like everything is great for her coworkers.

My plan was to pay the lawyer tomorrow to get the ball rolling in this divorce. But now in the last day, I seem to be getting these signs not to throw in the towel just yet. But that could just be me looking for an excuse not to go through with it.


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Tread, I can't tell you if you should file.

But your post from yesterday mentioned how physically and mentally unattractive your W is right now. Has that changed? Could it?

I think it's natural to question this decision. Unless there was some reason to do it tomorrow, maybe you should take some more time.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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At this point, I have no choice but to get a lawyer involved. Everyone I know is telling me that your W is out to ruin you. And will do so if you don't do something now. Sad part is that they are right. Still hoping that there is a possibility to work things out. But at this point, I am fed up and need to seriously look out for myself and S13.

Right now I am wondering if I should reply to the email she sent with a simple thank you. Or just remain silents. For all I know she could be temp checking to see if I am truly done with her. So me being cordial and thanking her may have her thinking that she still has me. But no response might be a bad move, because I read on this board that LBS ignoring their spouses is not a good idea.


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Tread,

I don't think, "thank you" will do anything to make her feel like she still has you. Your actions will speak louder than any email or text.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

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This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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joejoe,

I guess it couldn't hurt to say thank you. Even though technically I'm pissed off at her. Not sure if its pride or trying to stay detached.


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Maybe a little bit of both.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

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This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Just a quick moral question. W AND SIL who supports the A are having a sibling trip in Orlando for four days starting tomorrow. ON lives in VS, but travels to Florida once a month for work. My guess is that W plans on meeting with him on this trip. So do I have somewhat of a moral obligation to inform W of the possibility of them meeting up?


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No. I wouldn't bring it up. If you did, it would show you're still attached to her.


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BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
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Originally Posted By: Tread
I told W that due to her actions, [I am] officially done with her and she was nothing to me.


If this is true, then why does it matter what you say about a random email she sent to you?

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Kaizen,

Good point, I replied with a simple thank you email. So today I paid the lawyer to get started with all the documents. Shouldn't be too difficult with an uncontested divorce, unless W throws a wrench in the olans. Never even bothered to tell W. I suppose, I'll let her know when it's time for her next week sometime when she returns from her trip to Florida.

I text W right after the lawyers office requesting copies of paystubs and she emailed them to me with no issue at all. She then text me about how one of her coworkers said something that I usually say, which made her laugh. W them began to tell me about how her work performance is continuing to drop. Due to falling asleep at the desk. This has definitely been a problem since OM got in the picture with all the late night texting.

I imagine it's gotten worse since she moved out. Due to me not being around to keep an eye on her. W can now stay out as long as she wants, so late night texting is no longer an issue. She can't blame this on me or S13, because we are at the house. So I just validated her. And she take me for the kind words.


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So I mentioned that W productivity at work continues to drop. But what I forgot to mention is that W just got an unexpected $2,000 a year raise. So when she told me this the other day, I was happy for her even though it made no sense. But now I am remembering that W posted a question on FB a few weeks ago.

The question was on whether it was alright to accept something from work knowing that someone was going to expect something in return? Then she mentioned that she was asking this for a friend. So now comes this unexpected raise that she technically doesn't deserve. So now I am wondering if my W sold her soul or a** for a $2,000 a year raise?

And if this is the case, I can honestly see why LBS typically opt not to take their W back. It just seems as if my W is sinking lower and lower. But she did afterall say that she wanted the right to f*ck and f*ck up to a friend of hers. And she seems to be right on track with that.


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^


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Did you have a question?

From what I can tell from your recent posts is that you are not nearly as detached as what your words suggest. If you are 'done with her' then why do any of your ponderings about this $2K raise matter?

I dont know how else to put my advice. Stop focusing on her. Stop worrying about her. Stop thinking in grand statements related to her. Just go about your business and live your life.

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Kaizen,

Trust me I am doing alright with detaching. Not completely there yet. But I have been doing my own thing and not worrying about W. This was more the realization on how low my W has possibly gone. My W would berate people for even joking about doing these things. And now this is a serious possibly or something that she has done?

I was just mentioning that I can now understand why the LBS often don't want to take the WS back after its all said and done. This behavior is not something you want from a spouse after they left you. Hell even if you recon do you discuss what the WS did or just treat as if This was in their past like it all some past relationship. Guess I am just curious that's all. But I supposebthis mught be why some WW feel they can never return to the MR.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Kaizen,

Trust me I am doing alright with detaching.


Don't kid yourself. I'm divorced. I'm HAPPILY dating a really wonderful woman. I'm in a custody fight and XW is trying to be D's full time residential parent after a few years of being a bad parent. And I STILL am not fully detached.


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EastTN,

Its strange. I am detached most of the time, then on occasion I catch myself caring. Then I detach all over again. So how long have you been involved with the woman your dating? And what made you do so this soon?


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Quote:
I was just mentioning that I can now understand why the LBS often don't want to take the WS back after its all said and done. This behavior is not something you want from a spouse after they left you. Hell even if you recon do you discuss what the WS did or just treat as if This was in their past like it all some past relationship. Guess I am just curious that's all. But I supposebthis mught be why some WW feel they can never return to the MR.


Sweeping it under the rug doesn't work. Treating it as though it was just something in her past, won't work. If the couple reconciles, they should have a pro marriage therapist that works with couples healing from an affair.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Tread
EastTN,

Its strange. I am detached most of the time, then on occasion I catch myself caring. Then I detach all over again.

I've been following your threads and I think you spend most of your time attached. It's not just that you care sometimes, it's that you are always worried about what she is doing. You HAVE TO focus on you, and your son, you can't focus on her so much. If you want to fix your M, she'll never respect you when you hang on everything she does. If you DON'T want to fix your M, then all this is doing is making it hurt more, and for longer.

Quote:
So how long have you been involved with the woman your dating? And what made you do so this soon?

Four months. I didn't intend to be seriously dating, especially not so soon. I didn't intend to have anything happen. I just wanted someone to talk to and get out of the house with. Instead I met a female version of myself, and things just kept getting better and better.


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I feel you are acting out of anger and listening too much to many people who are telling you that she is out to ruin you. Some of those people might not have genuine concern about you. I think it is best not to involve too many people (family, friends etc) in your affairs because you end up reacting to them than what you really want. Take time and breathe. Give yourself time to reflect and cool down first before you do any rush decision. I would think detaching from her is best and then you think though and GAL.


M 11 Dated for 4 years before then
Me 35 H 39
D 10
BD Feb 2016
A 2015 Dec
I was never in a R with the OM. Had a one night stand & I stopped contact immediately
I confessed the A to H and we went for MC
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Lovely,

I get what your saying about family and friends. But the problem is that they are often right. W is out to ruin me. Whether it's intentional or not. Her fantasy world mindset is leaving me stuck to deal with reality and several consequences of her actions. I wish that divorce wasn't the go to solution. But W has out me in the position t0 have to get a lawyer.


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EastTN,

My W is trying to sleep with the guy who's organization that I serve on the committee with. So yes there is a reason why I worry about my W. Because what she is doing will interfere with what I am doing. This was one of my GAL activities and something to look good on a resume. And now I have to deal with her pursuing a guy I have become buddy's with. So how do I not worry about this stuff? I'm staying away from her and doing my own thing.


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I don't have any advice on how to handle that crappy situation, except to say that if your buddy is going to screw your wife, he isn't your buddy.


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I was talking with a friend last night. And I couldn't help but to mention to her some of the positives of W moving out a month ago. Things I really didn't expect.

1. My W was the primary cook in our home. But it seems that S13 and I eat far less fast food now, than when she was here.

2. When W left, I thoroughly cleaned the home. I was the one always cleaning up. It would bug me when she and SIL would mess It up a room after I cleaned it up hour's after the fact. So the house stays clean now. So S13 and myself clearly are not the ones making a mess.

3. The television is hardly used at all.


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Just an update on my sitch. My lawyer emailed me the divorce paperwork on Friday for me for review. Prior to that everything with me was just fine. But that all seemed replaced with sadness when I saw W and my name's on the top of the paperwork. The feeling of failure came over me. Especially realizing just how simple are issues were compared to other people's sitches.

S13 is back with me this week. Glad to have him back. It didn't feel right being in the place alone. Being around people is cool, while you GAL. But when it's all said and done at night. You are on a house by yourself. W spared herself that issue by living with her sister. That is how she avoids truly being alone without S13. Without SIL, W would have been ran back home.

Surpassed my weight loss goal and now it's time to pack on the muscle and get ripped. Everybody has acknowledged the goal I met and it feels good. I can now fit suits and jeans I haven't worn in years. People mention W and I, but have no clue on what is going on. Or that she has moved out well over a month ago. W continues to keep that's secret from most of our friends and family. Sure she has no issue telling potential OM that she no longer lives with me.

Just feels as if I should let people know what is going on with us. Because people ask how were doing. And I end saying that things are fine. Feels like I just keep covering up for my WW. While she walks around without a care in the world. Detaching is getting better, but I feel the weight of everything is on me. And I don't seem to have the convience of having a moment to relax.


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you can tell people you are "facing a marital challenge, thanks for asking."

I don't think covering for your w is necessary. But as you know, I am not a fan - and neither is MWD - of telling anymore people than necessary, IF you want to reconcile

(and actually if you want to retain some civility with the child related issues.)

I know I'd regret spewing out to others way more than holding my tongue.

Sidenote - when h brought up the Alaskan obsession - AGAIN - at first I was not clear on details (h was omitting, as usual).

But my point is, while I was struggling with a plan or response, an old friend who knew the past and present, blasted me for not filing that day.

I was so bummed I had told her anything about the past. Even though I ended up filing anyhow, it was much later & when more transpired, and I had all the details. Frankly, I have never felt the same about her since. She sort of threw it in my face and I was very vulnerable at the time.

What if the facts were different or h and I could have worked things out? I really wish I had not told her. She reaches out to me now, but I don't feel the same about her.



You can always tell your w what you think if it comes to it. Be brief and think it out in advance, if you do.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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PS

if you tell others - and if she finds out - which is usually the case with someone asking her questions or saying "just thought she should know"

the tendency is for the WAS to revise the marriage even more, in order to defend themselves.

That can make you look bad and you won't even know half the time. If you do know, then it escalates. Character assassination gets ugly fast. Something to consider.
Plus you have a son to consider. At my d20's school when she was just 10, her bff's mom kind of went nuts. She had an affair somewhat openly, started using drugs and got arrested, etc.

Some kid made fun of D's bff, and they slurred the mom to the girl. Though the mom was literally sick, maybe she deserved it.

But her daughter didn't.

I'm almost sick just remembering it.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Originally Posted By: EastTN
I don't have any advice on how to handle that crappy situation, except to say that if your buddy is going to screw your wife, he isn't your buddy.


Yes

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*2016*
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Getting the divorce papers [censored], no two ways around that. Im sorry for you for having to go through it.

Originally Posted By: Tread
But when it's all said and done at night. You are on a house by yourself.

It is hard, especially at first. But at some point, I found I was able to enjoy the quiet times I had alone. What can you do to make your house and this time your own?

Originally Posted By: Tread
W spared herself that issue by living with her sister. That is how she avoids truly being alone without S13. Without SIL, W would have been ran back home.

Meh. Id say its not worth your effort contemplating any of this. Maybe she needs someone else around. It doesnt really matter.

Originally Posted By: Tread
Surpassed my weight loss goal and now it's time to pack on the muscle and get ripped. Everybody has acknowledged the goal I met and it feels good. I can now fit suits and jeans I haven't worn in years.

Great job!

Originally Posted By: Tread
People mention W and I, but have no clue on what is going on. Or that she has moved out well over a month ago. W continues to keep that's secret from most of our friends and family. Sure she has no issue telling potential OM that she no longer lives with me.

Just feels as if I should let people know what is going on with us. Because people ask how were doing. And I end saying that things are fine. Feels like I just keep covering up for my WW.

I think its OK to say she moved out or that you are having troubles right now. I dont see that as being anything that you need to hide. I wouldnt go into all the details you had mentioned in previous posts as I think thats not your story to tell.

Originally Posted By: Tread
Detaching is getting better, but I feel the weight of everything is on me. And I don't seem to have the convience of having a moment to relax.

Maybe you need to find some ways to relax. Even simple things like meditation apps or taking some quiet time each night could be helpful. If youre upset that you dont have that time, make it a priority to carve it out for yourself.

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Originally Posted By: Tread
Just an update on my sitch. My lawyer emailed me the divorce paperwork on Friday for me for review. Prior to that everything with me was just fine. But that all seemed replaced with sadness when I saw W and my name's on the top of the paperwork. The feeling of failure came over me. Especially realizing just how simple are issues were compared to other people's sitches.

I know exactly where you're coming from. I cried like a baby when I got a copy of the actual filing. I still feel like a failure sometimes, and I always feel like I've failed my little girl even though I don't feel like the M could have been saved.

There's nothing wrong with being sad. There's nothing wrong with missing your W, despite what she's done to you. Feel your pain, pick yourself back up, and remember that tomorrow is another day and tomorrow is another chance to make your life that much better.

Hang in there, Tread.


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25,

The problem with simply quitting is that the committee is actually a paid gig. And the guy my W maybe messing with actually works for the organization. If I quit, then they would want to know why since they are paying me for my time. I would have to tell them about their employee, which would likely get him fired.

I have no issue with him getting fired. Dude risked a good position to mess with someone else's wife. Not 100 per cent sure they are fooling around. But my instincts and evidence so far have pointed out that W is pursuing this man. Whether he has taken W up on the offer is another question.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
If I quit, then they would want to know why since they are paying me for my time. I would have to tell them about their employee, which would likely get him fired.


No way you would 'have to tell them' that level of detail.

Look, if you want to tell everyone how much of a victim you are and how bad a person your W is, then go ahead and do it. But I think that sets a bad example for your son, hurts whatever chance you have at reconciling and will be detrimental to your healing. Just my opinion though.

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Kaizen,

So I am supposed to tell them that I no longer wish to do it. And give them back their money? So I throw away an amazing opportunity to cover for my W and a dirt bag who is breaking the rules if his organization? It's not about wanting to talk bad on my W. But I may have to based on their bad decisions. Now if you have a way of doing this, then I am all for hearing it. But once again, it sounds as if I continue to suffer for my W choices.


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Tread,

could you perhaps clarify something for me? You say your wife is pursing this man, but you have no idea whether or not this man has taken her up on her pursuits? But this guy is a villain? He risked his position?

Or do you know this guy is the one pursuing your wife? Because it really isn't fair to get this guy fired if you wife is the one after him and not vice versa. I may have missed what HIS bad action were, that is why I am clarifying.

I would highly suggest your try your best to get out of victim mode. We have all suffered because of our spouses choices. Heck, my D was 9 years ago, and his choices still impact my life. But I sat in victim mode for so long and guess who suffered? Me, not him. So these days, I acknowledge the anger I feel when I realize this divorce has impacted something negatively in my life, then I move past it and do my best with what I got.

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Ginger,

The reason why I haven't reported this guy is because I wasn't sure. No one is quick to get this guy. I actually like the guy and was becoming friends with him prior to seeing what my W was up to. The man is actually great at his job, which is good for the community. This has nothing to do with making myself a victim. It's about finding the best way of handling a possible sitch without once again without sacrificing my needs.

Never said this guy waa a villoan in any way. And I am 100 percent sure, he is doing no pursuing. But I know she is. If he is doing the right thing, then I have no intent on telling his boss if he is turning down my W. But if I find out that he took up that offer, then I may have to tell. By doing that he would be risking his position. Which is a offense he would get fired for.

My IC says I should confront him to see if my W has made advances towards him. I have no intent on accusing him of anything. But I am interested in seeing how low my W us willing to go knowing that I am trying to do positive things with this organization.

Now people on here are telling me that I should just quit without giving a reason once again to cover up for my no good WE. So when do these consequences for my WW come in? Because once it seems that Inam being told to be the bigger person potentially at my own expense. We're told to improve and make ourselves better. I did that by working with this organization.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
25,

The problem with simply quitting is that the committee is actually a paid gig. And the guy my W maybe messing with actually works for the organization. If I quit, then they would want to know why since they are paying me for my time. I would have to tell them about their employee, which would likely get him fired.

I have no issue with him getting fired. Dude risked a good position to mess with someone else's wife. Not 100 per cent sure they are fooling around. But my instincts and evidence so far have pointed out that W is pursuing this man. Whether he has taken W up on the offer is another question.


This is what is confusing me. This goes against what you just said.

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That was me saying if I quit. I would have to give that as a reason for resigning. And that would be the reason why I would quit. If he was messing with W, then I would have no problem getting him fired, so I could remain on the committee. I am not blowing a great opportunity, if he has was messing up.


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That makes more sense. But don't borrow trouble from the future. he didn't do anything as far as you know, so keep up with the great opportunity.

As far as when is your W going to feel consequences? The real answer is perhaps never. I would give every DB'er the advice to take your focus right off there, because them feeling consequences doesn't impact YOUR life. It might feel good, but waiting on that or expecting it is expending energy where it doesn't belong.

It's been 9 years and I am pretty sure my ex never felt the consequence of what he has done. Actually, his life is just as he wants it. Married OW, part-time father, didn't have any more kids, never had to adjust his schedule or change his job/career, I essentially do the real raising of our daughter. He lost no friends in the process. He has time for his hobbies. With child responsibility a half a night during the week, he has been able to join his volleyball leagues, work OT....... his wife takes his abuse and he is as happy as a clam.

This used to anger me. But one day his daughter will probably see him for who he is. But unfortunately that becomes a consequence for her, rather than him.

I just do my best to focus on my side of the street. Yeah, I get really down sometimes about how this has affected my life in multiple ways. But I don't really care that he has gotten everything he has wanted and still doesn't suffer any consequences.

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Ginger,

I get what your saying. And it's notvas if I am waiting for my W to feel the consequences for her actions. But it feels as if I to be the bigger person and take the hit for her actions. Which in turn blocks her from feeling the consequences that she should be receiving.


For example, say these two were messing around. People on this board suggested that I should just quit. So he could keep his job and my W could continue to show volunteering. That would be me taking the hit, while those doing wrong go unscathed. There comes a point where we need to stop shaming LBS by saying they're making themselves victims. And let them know that it's alright to shine a light on these WS and OP on occasion.

I for one am not sacrificing opportunity for WW who I am currently filed papers on. The days if thinking of W first are gone. And if someone decided to risk their career, because keeping it in his pants was impossible for him. Then I should have right to think of myself over these two without shame.


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Tread, I think your anger may be motivating you.

If you quit to protect yourself, you're doing it for yourself. But if you shine the light on them, you're not really doing that for yourself. Your brain may *tell* you you're doing the right thing bc you're not covering for your W, but that's your brain trying to rationalize your actions.

Sometimes we decide something emotionally, almost subconsciously, then our brain comes in to rationalize things and try to provide an explanation after the fact.

I'm speaking from experience here, unfortunately.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Now people on here are telling me that I should just quit without giving a reason once again to cover up for my no good WE. So when do these consequences for my WW come in? Because once it seems that Inam being told to be the bigger person potentially at my own expense. We're told to improve and make ourselves better. I did that by working with this organization.

Im not saying you should quit at all. Thats a choice you can make one way or another. I said if you are GOING to quit, then I dont see the value in taking everyone down with you. Its not about covering for her, I am absolutely not suggesting you say anything untruthful. My point is only that I dont see how reporting them on your way out the door does anyone any good. Youre saying this is at your expense, but if you are going to quit anyway, then how does getting the two of them fired benefit you?

Please take a step back and look at your posts. They all come across as "I got hurt. My W deserves to get hurt for it." As Ginger said, at some point, it wont matter any more. Going around and making sure she gets some pain out of this isnt good for anyone.

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Kaizen,

So Your suggestion is for me to quit and lie why I am leaving? That would be covering up for them. Unless you have a good story on what I should tell the director? I'm all ears on what you think I should tell him. My post come across as I stepped away from my W and she inserted herself in my sitch.

I have no intent on quoting, but I refuse to work with this guy if he is messing with my W. And if it comes down to him, W and myself. Then I will report him and a termination is what he will face. Nothing to do with being hurt. It's called doing the right thing and looking out for myself. He would be messing himself over in this case.

Once again, if I quit then I have to explain. And I will not lie for this woman anymore. Quiting would be for my peace of mind if it came down to it.


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Holding,

Shining a light would be explaining why I would be leaving. It's not as if I would be sending an email out to everyone. But I have to let them know why I am quoting, especially considering that I signed an agreement to dobthis. Should I say that I woke up one day and simply didn't want to do this one day? Its not about being eager to tell in W.

But I shouldn't have to sit here and think of a way of possibly explaining myself, so W won't look bad to the director. If she cared about looking bad, then she should consider her actions. Honestly what benefit is it to bend over backwards to protect this woman. Not every decision. Is an act of revenge. Sometimes it's honestly just looking out for myself. She imposed herself on me as you recall.


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Your wife is volunteering for this organization? It seems like that's a good explanation, "My wife and I are getting divorced, so I need to step away from projects she is involved in."

Given that you have no evidence this employee is involved with your wife now, that means any future involvement would be post the filing. I'm not sure it's a fireable offense unless this is a religious institution.


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Rose,

Once again, lying for my W. And forcing myself to leave because of their wrongdoing. At the moment I have no intent to leave the organization. Plus I am being paid, W is volunteering. So that excuse won't fly most likely.

It's not a religious organization. But this group is always in the paper going toe to toe with the school board trying to make change. This organization has people in high positions who would like to see it gone. So one of the top guys being found using his position to pick up a parent/volunteer/wife would be a bullseye. This guys boss and the board would likely dismiss him by lunch to save the reputation of the organization. That is how serious this would be.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Rose,

Once again, lying for my W. And forcing myself to leave because of their wrongdoing. At the moment I have no intent to leave the organization. Plus I am being paid, W is volunteering. So that excuse won't fly most likely.


How is it lying? What did I suggest you say that is untrue? She did serve you with divorce papers, right? And you clearly need to distance yourself from her for your mental health. There is no lying there. You can't force her to leave, so you need to. The fact that she is not paid and you are does not mean you can control her.

Originally Posted By: Tread
It's not a religious organization. But this group is always in the paper going toe to toe with the school board trying to make change. This organization has people in high positions who would like to see it gone. So one of the top guys being found using his position to pick up a parent/volunteer/wife would be a bullseye. This guys boss and the board would likely dismiss him by lunch to save the reputation of the organization. That is how serious this would be.


This makes no sense. You said yourself that she is the one pursuing him. And he's resisted so far, so he's clearly not the initiator. Why would it be a big deal for someone in an organization to be romantically involved with a volunteer? Even someone high up? He's not her boss, and he's not using his position to intimidate her into something she doesn't want. I get that you still see her as your wife, but you live separately and divorce papers have been filed. I don't see the scandal, if they do get involved.

It sure sounds like you are looking to take this guy down, because your wife wants him.


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It's a lie, because that wouldn't be the reason for me leaving. The reason would be the guy I trusted would be messing with my W. And it actually would make perfect sense. It would be looked at as him taking advantage of his position, which is recruiting volunteers. It would be looked at badly for messing with someone else wife.


We live in the bible belt of all places and it would be look bad on the organization, which is why they gave strict rules for us on the committee. So imagine how they do their employees. And the excuse she came at me wouldn't fly. Nobody is out to get this guy. If you look above, I actually respect and like the guy. But if he is doing dirt, then the blame is on him for putting his job at risk.

If I had my way, I would be able to enjoy the position I signed up for without my W messing things up. But apparently she is determined to make things difficult. After the divorce and they got together, then it would be no issue. And hopefully by then, I would have performed my duties and moved on. But right my W is in the wrong. And I am searching for the best way of handling it without having to quit or give a bs excuse for leaving. No longer going to run from W. That logic is what lost her respect to begin with.


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Also since this woman is no longer my W, according to the separation and papers filed logic. Does that mean that I am free to see other women? The funny part of this whole thing is that the guy my W fell in love with would have burned down everything on his way out of the MR. No one would have been safe.

Now I feel like a shell of that person. Asking if I should somehow do something that benefits myself at the expense of the person causing damage. Sandi is right about the WW smelling weakness. It's as if my W is testing me on a regular basis just to see how far she can go.

A city full of men and W decided to pursue this guy. This guy isn't even a stud. Just an overweight guy who is cool. Its like she wants to push the limits to see if I will turn back into that early 20 something. Am I to treat this woman as if I would an enemy, because what the feeling is at this point. And I know her new BFF is pushing for this behavior. The old one moves and she finds a replacement.


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TREAD!!!!

You are making up scenarios that don't even exist and making yourself nuts over them.

Okay, your wife is pursing this guy. In her head, she is divorced and free to date. bad on her for choosing a guy you both work closely with. That's crappy.

This guys has done nothing you know of! So everything is pretty much irrelevant.

I think I have told you this before. YOU HAVE CHOICES! You can stay in this position as long as you can tolerate being around your W. You have no reason to leave it. You can also chose to leave it. You can choose to say it's because your W is pursuing someone else within the organization and you do not feel comfortable. But to name a guy who you have no evidence on would be wrong of you. You don't have to cover for her. You can say whatever you want to anyone about her. I wouldn't go around ruining other people's lives because your wife is going after them.

It's very obvious you are itching to expose your W. You need to say something to someone. So go ahead. No one is stopping you. Who is it you are hiding this from? Who is it you need to tell so bad? Tell them!

Hey, I exposed my ex up down and all around. I don't regret it. But I can't say it made me feel wonderful. I think I felt worse when I didn't get the reactions form his people I expected.

I just ask you not to bring down this guy who probably is just an innocent bystander in your wife's flirtation. You want to bring down your W, make sure there are no other innocent casualties.

I hope in time that you can just not give a crap about her actions anymore. Who she choses, why she choses them.

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Originally Posted By: Tread
Does that mean that I am free to see other women?
You are absolutely free to do this. Just like you are absolutely free to bring public shame to your W. Have at it.

But like Ginger said, I doubt it will make you feel better in the long run.

Ultimately, the question you need to ask yourself is: "Does doing X bring me closer to meeting my goals?"

The responses I have read from Rose and Ginger and the slant that I have given you are all assuming that your goals are focused around being in a healthy relationship in the future and in being a good role model for your son and in treating your W with the respect you would want from her.

If those ARENT your goals, then maybe doing the kinds of things youve been talking about will get you closer to them.

Originally Posted By: Tread
A city full of men and W decided to pursue this guy. This guy isn't even a stud. Just an overweight guy who is cool. Its like she wants to push the limits to see if I will turn back into that early 20 something. Am I to treat this woman as if I would an enemy, because what the feeling is at this point. And I know her new BFF is pushing for this behavior. The old one moves and she finds a replacement.

When you are detached, you will treat her just like a coworker that you kind of know. Friendly and polite, but not going out of your way one way or another to impact their life. What she is doing is about HER and not you. Just like what you should be focusing on is YOU and not her.

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Kaizen,

So If I chose to mess around with a few of my W friends and family who I know would be willing. Yes, they are that trifling. That would be okay due to it being about me and not her? I assumed there was a certain level of decency, considering that she claimed to want things to be cordial. But from what I am learning there are no boundaries. So just do what makes me feel good?


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Ginger,

Once again. I repeat. No one is turning in this guy, unless he is messing with W. I ain't holding him responsible for W trying to mess with him. If anything, I have even more respect for the man for thinking with the big head.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
So If I chose to mess around with a few of my W friends and family who I know would be willing. Yes, they are that trifling. That would be okay due to it being about me and not her? I assumed there was a certain level of decency, considering that she claimed to want things to be cordial. But from what I am learning there are no boundaries. So just do what makes me feel good?


I think what Kaizen is saying is "forget how she's acting, YOU need to act in a way that supports meeting your goals and teaches your son the lessons he should learn." All you can control here is YOU. How SHE behaves should not impact how YOU behave.

Revenge isn't going to support your goals. It might make you feel better (but more likely it will make you feel WORSE!) but it's not going to bring her back, and it's not going to "show her" anything. It's going to show YOU something, and your friends and family something, and your child something. Is that what you want them to see?

Look, I get how angry you are. I also get how badly you're hurting. I know you think that SHE deserves to have SOME kind of consequence for what she's done and what she's doing. But you NEED to figure out how to let that crap go. As long as you hold on to that, you'll be trapped where you are now. As long as you hold on that, you'll be making yourself a worse person instead of a better one. As long as you hold on to that, you'll just hurt MORE and not less.

And here's another one: the longer you let these thoughts and behaviors on your part continue, the more you've allowed her to affect your life.


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You are missing the point and in defensive mode.

You are making decisions based upon something that didn't even happen. Then you are upset that it is your W's fault if you have to quit. But nothing even has happened as far as you know.

The thing is, do what you want! Stop thinking about her and do whatever it is you want! Kaizen's point is to do what will bring you closer to your goal will benefit you.

But you have freedom to do whatever you choose. Stay in the job or leave. Go around calling everyone letting them know what happened between you and your W. All your choices. I think you want someone to say "yes, I agree with you exposing your W" That may not happen, but you are free to do what you want. But know you can't blame the outcome on anyone else but yourself.

I could right now choose not to be friendly with my ex and his OWW wife. I could not talk to either of them if I didn't want to. I chose to do it because it makes life that much better for my D10. I could choose to sit at the other side of the football field at her games. To turn away when they speak to me. My choices are mine, and while sometimes they aren't easy for me, it's how I want to live for my daughter. But I do indeed have a choice.

So do you.

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Oh, and if you want to go screw her friends, (if they gave you consent) that is also your choice! But how do YOU want to live?

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Originally Posted By: Tread
So If I chose to mess around with a few of my W friends and family who I know would be willing. Yes, they are that trifling. That would be okay due to it being about me and not her?


What do you mean by 'ok'?
You arent going to go to jail. So, I guess, sure, it's 'ok'.

As I said in the rest of my post - what are your goals? Would sleeping with your W's friend bring you closer to it?

When it was me, my goals were around reconciling with my W. At that time, no, I dont think sleeping with one of her friends would have helped. Later, that goal morphed into having a healthy coparenting relationship with her. I still dont think sleeping with one of her friends would have gotten me closer to that goal. That said, around that time, I started dating someone else and had no problem sleeping with her. Did it get me closer to reconciling? no, I dont think so - but that wasnt my goal anymore, so it didnt matter.

So, rather than spinning like a top, maybe now is a time to step back and really do some self-evaluation.

What are your goals? what do you want?

To me, these are the fundamental questions of DB, and they get skipped over in the process to focus on the 'good stuff'. The 37 rules...detachment...GAL...LRT...etc. But the whole things with the goals. What do you WANT? Then the next step is figuring out how to get there.

The advice you are getting from East, Ginger, Rose, and me is all centered around what we think your goals are. But, I admit, we could be wrong. And in that case, the advice could be wrong.

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[quote=Ginger1]
As far as when is your W going to feel consequences? The real answer is perhaps never. I would give every DB'er the advice to take your focus right off there, because them feeling consequences doesn't impact YOUR life.


THIS^^^. If your w and you divorce, and she gets a new car, your car won't break down. If you win the lottery, that does not make her poorer.

You must learn (NOT EASY) to disconnect her apparent happiness or choices

from yours. HER misery index is not a happiness index for you.



It's been 9 years and I am pretty sure my ex never felt the consequence of what he has done. Actually, his life is just as he wants it. Married OW, part-time father, didn't have any more kids, never had to adjust his schedule or change his job/career, I essentially do the real raising of our daughter. He lost no friends in the process. He has time for his hobbies. With child responsibility a half a night during the week, he has been able to join his volleyball leagues, work OT....... his wife takes his abuse and he is as happy as a clam.


This used to anger me. But one day his daughter will probably see him for who he is. But unfortunately that becomes a consequence for her, rather than him.



let's say all this^^ is true. (Infuriating - except Ginger isn't having to deal with the stomach ache and 'itchy sweater feeling' that would happen by still being married to that ex h. And it's hard to measure or quantify how much better her life is now, but it is.

How does her ex h's behavior and choices now, affect GINGER? Does it mean she cannot date, because he's married? Did she take a paycut because he earns a good salary? Nope, not connected. Ginger could wag her finger at her ex and stay focussed on HIS APPARENT joy, instead of creating her own...but how great would that kind of life be? And what about her d?

If her d9 sees her mom as a happy woman, she's far far less likely to ever become a victim of anyone else.

She will see Ginger as a loving mother (role model!!) and as a woman who makes herself content, and is a kind smart funny woman with meaningful work and deep connections with others. What a lovely role model to have.

Her d9 won't see that in her dad, but we can all pray she feels loved, enough, by him.

Tread you must stop worrying about whether she is suffering enough, or yet. It's not really your job to punish her or teach her lessons. Life will do that, or if she's like Ginger's ex, then she can live a shallow happy for Facebook life, but that won't matter to HER b/c she's living her life in her lane, not his.

and

You'll never find peace that way.



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Originally Posted By: Tread
Ginger,

I get what your saying. And it's notvas if I am waiting for my W to feel the consequences for her actions. But it feels as if I to be the bigger person and take the hit for her actions. Which in turn blocks her from feeling the consequences that she should be receiving.



For example, say these two were messing around. People on this board suggested that I should just quit. So he could keep his job and my W could continue to show volunteering.

No, Not so he could keep his job and your w could blah blah blah.

So you could detach better and find some peace

you connected all the actions/possible choices. The suggestion was for you to remove yourself from the equation.

If you can't, then you can't. But any discussion with the guy on the board, (and I really hope you are not just reacting to her flirting in front of you (which -If it is happening, sounds very staged,)

should be more about your marital challenge. You could share with him IF YOU MUST

and not "confront". More like you appreciate his understanding given that you are trying to get through a tough time, working on the marriage, etc"


That would be me taking the hit, while those doing wrong go unscathed. There comes a point where we need to stop shaming LBS by saying they're making themselves victims. And let them know that it's alright to shine a light on these WS and OP on occasion.

I for one am not sacrificing opportunity for WW who I am currently filed papers on. The days if thinking of W first are gone. And if someone decided to risk their career, because keeping it in his pants was impossible for him. Then I should have right to think of myself over these two without shame.


I can't speak of others, but my goal here is what I truly believe will lead you to more peace and happiness (and love, someday) than giving into the anger you feel, and playing judge and executioner in this.

I spent way too much time making angry choices - justifying them under the guise of righteous indignation, and confused my wounded ego with setting a "healthy boundary". There are many fine lines in these situations.


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A city full of men and W decided to pursue this guy. This guy isn't even a stud. Just an overweight guy who is cool. Its like she wants to push the limits to see if I will turn back into that early 20 something.

OR she likes that you are still so enmeshed in what she is doing. You are spinning inside, and planning to confirm to her that you are so Not detached.

Her behavior sounds like it's out of high school, or from a very wounded position. No, I'm not blaming you. I'm merely observing how odd it is for a woman her age (or any recently sep woman)

to pursue a guy her h works with, and somehow do it in a way her h is sure to learn of.

You don't see that as something to detach from or ignore?



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Kaizen,

One of my goals was this organization. Now W is pulling this mess. I would live to ignore her. But her a** keeps popping up and doing this nonsense. It's like walking away from the bully, but the bully keep a following provoking you.


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25,

I hear what your saying. But ignoring the problem does not make the feelings go away. Yoir basically holding it all in, while people are laughing behind yiur back and smiling in your face. And that is if something is happening.


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Tread, unless you were a pompous ass who mocked people whose spouses cheated on them, no one worth the time of day is going to be laughing at you because of your wife's behavior.

Your wife is behaving horribly, but her behavior is not a reflection on you, and it's not something you can control.

You're separated, so it's not as if people think you are being tricked.

The attitude you need to channel is "Frankly, I don't give a damn."

Go be the best Tread you can be. Until she shows signs of wanting to come back, her behavior is nothing to do with you.


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Originally Posted By: Rose888
Tread, unless you were a pompous ass who mocked people whose spouses cheated on them, no one worth the time of day is going to be laughing at you because of your wife's behavior.

Your wife is behaving horribly, but her behavior is not a reflection on you, and it's not something you can control.

You're separated, so it's not as if people think you are being tricked.

The attitude you need to channel is "Frankly, I don't give a damn."

Go be the best Tread you can be. Until she shows signs of wanting to come back, her behavior is nothing to do with you.




THIS^^^. No one is "laughing behind" your back.

I don't know any people who would enjoy observing and speculating on any such thing. (Not even in high school, as they'd all fear being in the same boat.)

That's just stinking thinking and it's just not reality based.

So, back to YOU...


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*2016*
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Rose and 25, I think the Tread is probably talking about WW and OM, rather than "people in general." His feelings here are valid, and I've gotta say that I know how it feels to be in his place.


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Everybody,

I got a question. S13 has his 14th birthday coming up next Sunday. Basically I'm wondering if I should contact W and see if she wants to do something together for him or just leave it alone and do something separately?


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Everybody,

I got a question. S13 has his 14th birthday coming up next Sunday. Basically I'm wondering if I should contact W and see if she wants to do something together for him or just leave it alone and do something separately?


I thought you couldnt stand this woman? Why would you want to plan a party with her?

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Kaizen,

Things have been better since I stopped dealing with her outside of S13. She has even calmed down and approached me in regards to handling finances. Not going to let my guard down around her, but I was wondering if we should something for S13 sake. Not a huge party, but maybe take him out to dinner like we normally would. Not sure how to handle birthdays with the kid. Just trying to do what is best for the kid.


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Maybe arranged to take S13 out and mention to her she's welcome to come along...

Leave it up to her, shows your not bothered either way and your just as comfortable to do this on your own.


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How about you ask S13? It's his birthday, after all!

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For what it's worth, my opinion is to try to be as consistent as possible. It worries me that your thoughts and feelings towards W are changing fairly regularly from what I can tell. So if what you were doing was working, I wouldnt start changing it now. As I asked you a few replies back - what are your goals? how does this fit in to you achieving them?

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My goal is to continue working on myself and detaching. Trying to increase my contacts, career and physical goals. Also to get close with my own immediate family. Spent most of my MR doing things for my in laws. Getting closer with my son. Also most importantly ensuring that S13 doesn't get thrown off completely by the changes.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
My goal is to continue working on myself and detaching. Trying to increase my contacts, career and physical goals. Also to get close with my own immediate family. Getting closer with my son. Also most importantly ensuring that S13 doesn't get thrown off completely by the changes.


OK. So these all seem like reasonable concepts. But they arent really goals. The way I learned it, goals should be SMART:

Specific
Measurable
Achievable
Relevant
Timely

So saying I want to get closer with my immediate family is good. But theres no indication of how you are going to do it or how you will judge whether you achieved it or not.

For example, lets say my goal is to 'eat healthier'. If I normally eat 2 quarter pounders with cheese and a XL fries and a 32 oz coke....trimming that to 2 quarter pounders without cheese and a L fries and a 20 oz coke is 'healthier', but it still wouldnt likely qualify as 'healthy'. So, does it meet the goal or not? It is difficult to judge.

In my mind, the more specific and measurable your goal is, the easier it is to attain it.

To apply to you, you say you dont want your son thrown off by the changes. Well, his mom and dad are already separated. So would coming together for a birthday party or even a dinner throw him off? If it were me as a 13 year old, I might think thats a sign mom and dad are getting back together - or working on it, at least. But it could also be a good way to model that despite your differences, you will both be there for him.

Sorry, there isnt a lot of great specific advice I have for you on this topic. My emphasis would be on figuring out what you want (as in goals) and then figuring out what to do to get there.

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Kaizen,

That was my thought process in regards to S13. Regardless on how I feel about W. I will put that aside for us to be cordial around him. Because being there for him is the most important thing. Weight loss goal has been far exceeded. Wanted to get to 160 and now I am at 152. Right now its about packing on muscle.
And I certainly have eaten far less fast food since W moved out.

As far as spending time with my family. Going to spend Thanksgiving with my parents, which is haven't done in 15 years. Been stuck hosting Thanksgiving at my house for my in laws every year. With them bringing nothing but they appetites. Going to spend Christmas with my family as well. And my trip to the Bahamas for my 15 year anniversary will now be spent with my youngest brother.


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I wrote a whole post and lost it. But I will leave you with this.

My parents split at 17 and I was miserable when it was the 3 of us. it was pretty uncomfortable for me.

This is why I suggest you ask him what he wants. You make think he wants a family dinner, but it might actually make him uncomfortable. Leave the question open ended.

"what would you like to do for your birthday?" His answer will tell you a lot.

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Ginger,

Thanks for the advise. I will give that a try.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Everybody,

I got a question. S13 has his 14th birthday coming up next Sunday. Basically I'm wondering if I should contact W and see if she wants to do something together for him or just leave it alone and do something separately?


My XW and I continued to plan birthdays together for the kids and in fact we still do. Two of my kids are grown and on their own now, but they've both told me that they appreciated us doing that for them, they said they would much rather have one "united" party than to try and have separate ones. My XW and I never had an adversarial relationship even during S and D though, so I think that may be a big part of why it works for us. Some people are dealing with WAS's or MLC'ers that are just plain crazy so I can certainly see how it wouldn't work for everyone.

And of course you have to do it without expectations, try to be OK with it either way before you call her. If she wants to do something together then great, if she doesn't then try to be good with that too.


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AnotherStander,

I wasn't going to be upset or expecting anything either way. Just wondering if it would be better for S13 to try and keep things in his life from completely changing. Holidays have already been divided. Figured we could at least spare him of that on his birthday. Thanks for the advice.


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So 3 days ago, I emailed my W the divorce papers my lawyer sent me to review. Needed her to look over it and sign as well as the parenting plan. I haven't heard from her since I text her letting her I was emailing it to her. Sure she was surprised considering that she had no clue I had hired a lawyer. Thought about asking her what the deal is with no response, but I figure it best to let her do things on her own time. Not even going to assume what is going through her mind right now.


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I have the feeling that I may have been played by my WW. At least that's what my father thinks. So I get a text earlier from W asking me what time I am getting off. Tell her same time as usual, unless something comes up. So W tells me that she is having vehicle issues and needs for me to pick her up if possible. So I agree to pick her up from work and bring her back to her house. In the vehicle everything is cordial and we even talk and laugh about some things.

So I ask her what exactly is wrong with the vehicle. W says that she noticed a flat tire during lunch and quickly took the car back to her place before it could get completely flat. We get back to her place and the car is sitting there with a flat tire in the driveway. So I inquire why didn't she change the tire, since the spare is in the trunk? She mentions that she didn't want to drive with it for a couple of days. I mention that you could use long long enough, until you can get a replacement. Which would be tomorrow, since that's when we get paid. W plan is to get the vehicle towed to Walmart for them to change the tire. But not before finding a tire tonight.

Now the old version of myself would have said how crazy this plan was. But I kept that to myself and said "Sounds like a plan." And since she didn't ask for help with the tire, I never offered to change it myself. We exchanged S13 who was at her place and left from there. No win the back of my mine, I can't help but to wonder. Where are these so called men who were in my W ear telling her to leave this MR? I know one in particular works in Public Works down the street from her. Could this guy not change a tire? But yet she called the one guy who emailed divorce papers to her a few days ago. The guy who she acts as if hadn't done a thing for her the whole 17 years we were together.

And OM who leaves in VA. Will he be sending the money in order to replace the tire? I highly doubt it due to the fact that he is only good for a good time. And being my W obsession. In a way I feel as if she tested me to see if I would show up to help. And I just confirmed that she could still call me whenever she needed me. That I am still her go to guy whenever sh*t hits the fan. But she can still mess with everybody else for a good time. My father pretty much confirmed that is what she did. But I'm just curious to hear, especially from Sandi is he correct about what just happened. And how I should have handled things if I did get tested.


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Why did you pick her up??

Aren't you the one who was talking a few days ago about getting some poor guy fired if he succumbed to your wife's advances? And yet you come running when she calls? Needing a ride home from work does not qualify as an emergency in my book.


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Rose,

Probably should have told her to take an Uber or try harder to find a friend. I agreed to it without even thinking. My downfall is and will always be a sense of loyalty to those that I care about. My father knows this all to well. And called me out on it. As pissed off as I am at W. My natural instinct is to look out for her. Even after I agreed to, I wondered if I should have text back telling her that wasn't going to assist her. But then I wondered if I should help, proving that I was trying to be the bigger person. And not the jerk, she claiming that I am. So there is the dilemma.


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Tread, you do the opposite of everything you say.

First, you are trying to pick apart her reasoning for why she called you, making up a bunch of scenarios why she didn't call some other man......Does it even matter?

You say you do this because it's in your nature. fine, do it, but have no expectations attached whatsoever.

But I can give you the absolute simple answer to this. She called you because she knew you would do it. And you did. Like you said, it's your natural instinct. However, I doubt a little bit of the natural instinct because you wondered if you were help because you don't want her to be a jerk like she thinks you are.

Either you do these things or you don't. But don't attach scenarios and expections to it all.

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Ginger,

There was no expectations for me helping out. But afterwards I started to wonder if I should have done so. I am supposed to be detaching here and was doing good. She called I didn't hesitate to assist. And I can't help but to wonder was this all a test. Also was I foolish to help when OM may still be in the picture, also potential OM who have been in my W ear talking bad about me.

It matters if my W is testing the waters seeing if she can still use me. So it's not about doing opposite of what I say. It's about trying to make the right choices when dealing with your WS. The thought about trying not to be a jerk came after I agreed to do so. And I am honestly wondering if I shouldn't even care at this point.

It's like I am doing fine with detaching and then she calls. And I am now questioning my actions. As far as the scenarios go. I just wonder why my W could talk bad about me as if I do nothing for her. But the very people she values, she asks nothing from. OM has actually be described as a freaking Savior on her poems. But yet the savior is not asked to perform in miracles other than sex? So afterwards I was feeling a bit foolish for helping out.


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Tread,

Start learning how to say no. Realize that when you start to take this power back, you will receive a LOT of hate from your WW, and that's because she knows you're conditioned to give her whatever she wants in the name of peace.

It's REALLY hard for NGs to deal with, but in the end you have to do it. Because you sure can't let your WW keep using you, and in the future, you need to stop being MNG in order to have a functional relationship with her, or someone else.

I know it [censored] to be where you are right now, I know how hard it is to stay detached from someone who knows what buttons to press, but hang in there and dig deep.


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EastTN,

Your right. If this was a few weeks ago, then I would have told her to call someone else or OM. But since then I have calmed down. And things have gone back to be being cordial over time due to me seriously detaching. Not sure if me emailing her the parenting plan and divorce papers on Monday is what led to this. But I feel that this was a test that I failed.


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What is MNG anyways?


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MNG - Mr. Nice Guy

Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover.

It's not "how to be a jerk" it's about how "Nice Guys" try not to rock the boat and make their SO's mad. "Nice Guys" are actually the opposite of nice guys based on their behaviors e.g. covert contracts, victim vomit, etc.


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Mister Nice Guy!


M:37 W:37
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S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Definitely going to track that book down tomorrow.


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A couple other good reads are:
“Hold onto your N.U.T.S” by Wayne Levine
“Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway” by Susan Jeffers


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IMHO, you are having a problem balancing. Your advice to other newcomers sound very tough and ridged. In some cases, too much, b\c it sounds as if it's coming from your own anger. True, you have every right to be angry about your WW's infidelity.....but be careful what you do with that anger.

Your mind is occupied by negative thoughts people may have about you (laughing behind your back, etc). You feel torn by how to interact with your WW, b\c of how she may interrupt it. And, I think all of this together is causing your timing to be off in the things you decide to do.

For instance, you weren't sure about S13 birthday celebration. That's understandable, and probably, we all have our own personal viewpoints about it. But here's my point about bad timing, and if I'm wrong about this particular example, you can correct me. Did she not receive the email with the D information just a few days before S13's birthday? To me, I would not have done that if I was going to turn around and suggest you celebrate your son's birthday together. Even if you didn't celebrate together, it just looks as if you I tended to hurt her right about the time for his birthday. See what I mean? Bad timing.

As for asking her why no response, I suggest you not say anything yet. There could be several reasons she hasn't responded. Whatever that reason is, if you ask her......you will probably get a lot more than you wanted.....and it won't be good. Sorry if I find it hard to believe you aren't looking for some desired response from her. It's natural, but you need to really stop doing things to get a response.

The best thing you can do is exactly what we've told you from day one. Stop focusing on her (what she's thinking about you, her motive behind her actions, etc). I noticed on your list of goals you did not have anything about your M, so does that mean you are finished with her? If so, then stop letting negative thoughts occupy your mind, and live your life by what you believe is true and the right thing to do every day. If you will live by this code, I believe it will help you in overcoming the mental agony of what others may think of you. Most of all, I think it may assist you in having better balance in your decisions, interactions, mental attitude, etc. Hopefully, it will help you move forward and find a way to deal with the anger.

I don't say any of this with a judgemental heart, Tread, I hope you believe that. I don't suppose anyone here is as hard on wayward wives as I am, and it is painful to see you going through this mess. Your have a full life ahead of you, and there are still some good people in the world. Don't allow this experience to leave you bitter at the world, b\c it is not worth what you will miss. ((Hugs))

BTW, don't react from my post by canceling the paperwork, or anything like it. I want you to stop reacting...period. Find peace in your life, and stop looking for reactions from your W. Do you see what I mean, or have I confused you?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi,

The reason why my advice is so tough and ridged with the newcomers is because I want them to avoid my mistakes. I initially tried to nice my way back into her heart. As a result, she took full advantage and her behavior got worse. You were right that as long as the WW doesn't respect you, then you won't get anywhere with them.

Now your 100 percent correct about me being torn in regards on how to react with my W. Even though I was pissed at her last month, I decided to calm down once her behavior got better. So everything is at least on a cordial level. But I am a bot concerned about how she will interpret things. S13 birthday is tomorrow, I emailed the D information on Monday. When I sent it to her, I never even considered S13 birthday. Our wedding Anniversary is actually on the 18th now that I think about it. Guess the timing did suck, but I have so much on plate and decisions to make that W feelings didn't seem that important. I just know that lawyer needed me to get that signed off on.

I'm not expecting a desired response from W. But when I received the paperwork from my lawyer, it made me sad seeing myself as the Plantiff and W as the Defendant. Like things had really come to this. I would hope that my W would experience some sadness at the possibility of the MR coming to an end. AS far as my goals, they are solely about me and not involving my W. If things change in our sitch, then I will adjust the goals accordingly. But right now, life is going to be about me and S13.

Seriously had trust issues prior to all of this. And right now it seems as if I will never completely trust anyone again. I now this may sound cliche, but my W was never one who I thought would do this. She turned in friends of ours who were having A. Didn't entertain people who were doing this stuff. And talked about her own mother and family members were out sleeping around with other people's H's. So if she can do this of all people, then I am not sure if there is woman trustworthy out there other than my mother of course.

As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it. W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do. Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it? And is this her way of testing me by just ignoring the paperwork all together? I ask this, because I wonder if this is about respect.

By the way, W just called asking about what plans I have for S13 tomorrow. He is with me for the next week, so she mentioned something about a Fall event at the market he likes to attend every year. W asked me if I wanted to go with them in the morning. Never bothered to ask if it was alright to get him during my week. But I didn't say anything, its his birthday, so I have no issue with her getting him for a couple of hours. Told her will figure out the plans for the whole day in the morning. So it appears that the three of us might be spending the day together after all.


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So I have a confession. Read the first chapter of No More Mr. Nice Guy. And that chapter alone hit me like a ton of bricks. Discovered I had issues that I didn't even really have a clue about. But the way I have felt throughout this MR finally makes sense. Sat in the aisle of Walmart listening to the book on audio and suddenly had the urge to call W and apologize for the flaws and issues that I wasn't really aware of.

My W issues involving her childhood into adulthood are obvious. But clearly my own issues are a lot more hidden. Which has a lot to do with trying to be that nice guy who is responsible for keeping everything together. This was beaten into my own head as the eldest child by own parents. Especially my father. And I am sure my fix it attitude didn't help my MR out at all. But to be honest, I have never looked at my W as a project to fix. Though I agree with the book that I always thought my W had so much potential. But was just brought up in a bad sitch. I wanted to take her from all of that and show her much better. When I bought this house, it wasn't for me. But it was for her and S13. I wanted W to see that she actually deserved to have all of this.

Now she doesn't even want it. And is willing to throw it all away for a guy who wants to give her nothing. Guess this is also why I am so upset with W. I have flaws, but I believed that I did everything right without expecting anything but loyalty. For her to leave this MR for someone better would be understandable. But for someone who never even bought her a drink? The first chapter alone has opened up my eyes and I can only imagine what I will discover by the end of this book.

I made so many sacrifices for my W that I will never be able to take back. All in the name of being a nice guy. Sacrificed a military career, children and entertained/helped her family out on many occasions. I did it with no expectation, because we were family. And now she wants to break up the family for this turd. So at the moment, I am pissed off at W. But I am also extremely sorry for W must have endured in our MR. Even though she opted to keep a lot of things to herself. At first, I got a lawyer, because I wanted this nonsense to come to an end and I deserve better. Now I am seriously wondering if we should go our separate ways because this might not be salvageable? Well that's my rant.


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Quote:
As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it. W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do. Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it? And is this her way of testing me by just ignoring the paperwork all together? I ask this, because I wonder if this is about respect.


Is she suppose to sign the agreement for the child care schedule or anything else to return to the lawyer within a certain window of time? You may need to check with his office. If your W doesn't mention the email in a reasonable time frame, then explain there is deadline.

I hope you and your W can be civil while celebrating S13's BD.

It makes it rather difficult with the son's BD and the anniversary, also. Just try to get through the next few weeks behaving as a man of honor. I hope your W will not decide to discuss it in front of son.

Good luck. I hope you have an enjoyable time.


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Originally Posted By: Tread

As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it.


I was actually wondering the same thing as Sandi- is there a response date in the paperwork? If so then I wouldn't worry about it until that date. She may have just set it aside to deal with later.

Quote:
W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do.


Did you file for D because you were well and truly done and want to be D'd, or because you hoped to get some kind of response out of her? Because it sounds like the latter.

Quote:
Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it?


Is there not a response date in the paperwork? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, did you actually file for D or did you just draw up papers and send them to her for review? If you filed for D, then there should be a date in there by which she needs to respond in writing to the court.


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AnotherStander,

I has the papers drawn up and sent to W for review. So I doubt there was a date. Just wanted to get her to agree on things prior to paying to file and find out she wants to fight it, which would cost me more money. I had the papers drawn up, because I had finally had enough of her nonsense. And if I was going to get through these financial issues, then I would have to get rid of her as a W. Now I admit that there is a small part of me that would be happy if the papers caused her to snap out of this fog.

By the way things went well yesterday with us meeting up for S14 birthday. Thought it would be weird for us being around each other for a long period of time. Last 2 months are time together has been no longer than 5-10 minutes discussing S14. W seemed eager to tell me about a friends wedding she attended the say before. I was cordial and validated the issues she brought up in regards to how she was feeling about other things in her life. You would have thought things were normal just by watching us. She even mentioned just how good I was looking lately with the weight loss. And even mentiones that my beardbhad kess gray.

For some reason, I thought it would be weird. And old feelings would get involved. But I really didn't feel too much for W at all. It was if I was talking to an old neighbor who I was catching up with. Pretty certain she texted OM at some point during brunch. Whenever W is trying to think of something sexy and cute to text in response, she tends to rub her lips as she concentrates.

W always thought that I was going through her found, but I simply just happen to be aware of her body language in that regard. I just ignored her trifiling behavior and just continues talking with S14. She can't even stop dealing with this guy for 3 hours to celebrate her own son. This is the behavior of damn near all the women in her family. That she has complained abiut for years. Which is a huge reason why I had the paperwork drawn up. I can't and refuse to live in that type of dysfunction.


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Quote:
And I am sure my fix it attitude didn't help my MR out at all. But to be honest, I have never looked at my W as a project to fix. Though I agree with the book that I always thought my W had so much potential. But was just brought up in a bad sitch. I wanted to take her from all of that and show her much better. When I bought this house, it wasn't for me. But it was for her and S13. I wanted W to see that she actually deserved to have all of this.


Tread... everyone is different, but as you know I also have a WW, and my own experiences in this have been somewhat eye-opening. I, too, had much the same mindset with my wife when we got married... wanted to "fix" her brokenness, take away her hurt, "protect her and give her everything", "Save" her, even. Turns out, however, that, at least for a good number of women, these things are not "turn ons." And, when your W becomes a WW, they are DEFINITELY not attractive because the WW does not WANT to be fixed/saved/corrected/changed in any way. I can't remember the exact context, but a few months back with my own W I did something (think maybe I showed up to pick her up when she had been drinking) and she told me, somewhat angrily and scornfully "I don't need to be rescued." No thanks, nothing, just "I don't need to be rescued."

Also, want to reiterate what Sandi2 said above about timing... and this goes for all walks of life not just with your W. I, too, have a very strong "fix it" mentality, and also a quick mind that hates to see things messed up and that wants to move QUICKLY to remedy things or address things I see as "issues." Quite frequently this has led to me doing or saying things prematurely or otherwise at less than optimal moments... in all walks of life I have come to see but, most pertinently, WRT my W and our current sitch. Both the DB coach and my IC have been a big help with this. Sometimes, it is best to wait and pick your spots, particularly if you are going to be broaching or discussing something delicate. Can't remember the exact phrasing but my coach has told me a couple of times to think of this rhyme, which can be useful in other contexts as well: "Is what I am about to do or say, going to draw her/him closer or push her/him away?"


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So due to mother insistence I looked at the phone records for the month. Mom basically said I was soft for giving W a ride last week. And what I found is that my W spends her entire day most texting with several men and calling a couple. Not really sure if she has time to visit with them. But clearly she is relishing in the attention. Clearly these guys are for fun, but are unwilling to assist with a flat tire.

OM was nowhere to be found on there. Noticed awhile back that he wasn't responding to text, so he may have finally kicked her to the curb or using secret messenger. No concern of mine at this point, but just an observation. And apparently potential OM has moves up to the top of the list for text and calls. Nice to know that he stepped up his scavenger behavior when W moved out.

The thing that actually bothered me was the fact that there were times when W had excuses not to pick up S14, drop anything off for him or I had to change my plans for her. W used excuses for being too tired, but from what I can tell she was busy texting or talking on the phone when she was supposed to be sleeping. Basically putting our son aside just for attention from strangers.

So this did prove my mother's point to let her go to these men for assistance on anything that doesn't involve S14. And apparently even in matters involving our child she can't be trusted. Have no intentions on calling her out. But I am real tempted to to send a text next time she wants something. And it will go like this:

If you need anything in regards to S14 or business, then I will not hesitate to assist you. But for anything else please refer the other men you contact on a regular basis. If these men are incapable of being more for you than the purpose for "fun and a good time", then you may want to reevaluate the type of people in your life. My time is valuable and will not be used for someone trying to take advantage.


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Tread,

You need to keep working on your detachment. You're not helping yourself, here. You already know she's a cheater, you already know she lies to your kids, you already know that whatever OM are in the picture are more important to her than you or your family. What have you discovered here that's new? What is getting this upset buy you at this point except more pain?

When I look at what you're posting, I see someone who seems to DESPERATELY want his W to just wake up and come home. You're angry with her, disgusted by her, but you still REALLY seem to want that. The problem is that she's not going to do those things anytime soon, if ever, and nothing in the world you do is going to shorten that timeline. The things you ARE doing are going to just push her further away.

Keep the D moving if that's what you want. While that's moving forward, be "done" with her if that's what you want or stand for your M if that's what you want. Whatever you do, though, commit to it and STOP WORRYING ABOUT HER AND WHAT SHE'S DOING! You'll never find any kind of peace unless you do.

Unless and until you accept that there's NOTHING you can do to control what she does, and live for YOU and your kid, you're going to keep hurting, going to keep spinning, and you won't ever move closer to something better than the hell you're in right now.

It [censored]. It's a [censored] sandwich for you and your kid. But where you are right not [censored] MORE than what's on the other side of this. And you won't ever get to that other side unless you work for it. So start working.


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EastTN,

It's just the realization that she would play me by using our child. Figured she would want more time with him, but apparently the attention of random men are more important. OM was at least an obsession. Now it's just a warm body that is important than her child. And now I have to act a certain way just because I know she is likely lying and taking advantage. So what is your opinion about sending that text the next te she wants something from me. Or will a simple "no" do just fine?


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Yeah, that realization [censored]. When they start to use your kid first as an excuse, and later as a weapon, it hurts for a lot of reasons. But you have to remember that the person she is today is going to do that kind of thing, and likely worse. Stop being surprised by it.

Yes, she is (and will continue to, if you let her) taking advantage of you. When my D was final, XW got my car (mine, from before the M) as part of the property settlement. I signed the title, and gave it to her, asking her to give my plate back the next week at handover. I got a polite text a few days later asking me to let the car ride for a bit, as money was tight. Since it wasn't going to cost me much of anything (registration and insurance are up at the end of this month, anyway) I agreed. A few days later, she was facetiming with D and I overheard her talking about her new haircut.

As always, she had money for essentials like salon visits, but not luxuries like getting the car registered and insured.

Don't forget that's what you're dealing with. Don't forget (cadence pointed this out to me in my thread) that your kindnesses will be seen as weakness and used against you.

In answer to your question, "a simple no" if you bother to respond at all. What you wrote up is a whole bunch of stuff she already knows. She'll see it as weakness, AND she'll get better at lying to you. What's your gain from that?


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EastTN,

Thanks for the advice.


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