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Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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RECAP: BD in late April, 2017. Did some wrong things for about a month then started DB'ing for another month. W said she wanted a D on 7-13 and her L filed 4 days later. Since then, we've told the kids, and I've gone dark. Trying to save things has just gotten too painful for me.

I've accepted the D is coming, though I still have emotional moments that hit out of the blue. I've also realized that my W has used me and treated me like a doormat for pretty much our entire M. The hardest part is I allowed it to happen.

D is not what I wanted, but it's here and I have to face it. I'm trying to look forward to what my new life could be - an awesome single dad who could be a really great partner for someone new.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

Once again glad you're doing so well! I would not tell your W about your plans for the house for three reasons:

1. I don't think it will impact whether she moves out at all. If you want her to move out that's a separate issue and you should tackle that head on -- be assertive and tell her you want her to move out if that's what you want.

2. I'm sure if you tell her you want to keep the house it will lead to some negotiating on her part. If she believes she's going to give something in any way then she's going to want to get something. You're much better off negotiating everything at once than each thing in serial.

3. You're going to need to play a bit of poker in negotiating your divorce and better not to show your cards in advance

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Thanks, Acc! Some very good points, and I agree with all of them. I do need to check with my L to see if I can ask W to leave. In the past she advised me that I shouldn't try to make her leave. It's better for me legally if it's voluntary on her part.

In terms of my personal progress, I feel like I'm slowly getting better and more emotionally stable. It's weird, but I usually feel better after an emotional torrent.

A coworker today told me that, in the last month, I seem to be happier and I'm laughing more.

I was talking to my cousin about my sitch recently - he D'd years ago. He told me I seem to be doing much better than him when he was at this point in his D. I guess I can chalk that up to DB'ing. I don't think DB'ing did much to save my M, but I think it helped me find a way to grow and make the most of this horrible sitch.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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I've done a lot of thinking about our MR and all the pluses and minuses. TBH there are a whole lot more minuses. If money were no object, I'd strongly consider telling my L to push the D ahead and start driving the case.

I've been sleeping like a champ and I can definitely feel the old appetite coming back. Being around the STBXW (I can't find it in myself to call her my W any more) is starting to get easier. Though I still wish she'd move out.

My anger is starting to mellow a bit. I've been letting my anger out in constructive ways when I'm by myself at home or in the car (yelling, cursing, etc.). I usually feel much better afterwards. And I'm starting to feel tired of the anger. It's a burden I don't want to carry any more.

I'm also starting to feel something different for my STBXW. What I'm feeling is more like pity. She's a sad shallow reflection of the person she used to be. She's ruining everything she's worked to create for her family. She shows troubling signs of detaching from her kids. If I ever knew the real her, then I think she'll be facing a lifetime of guilt for this. That doesn't make me happy any more - it makes me sad for her.

My IC says I seem to be making good progress, especially with the boundaries I've been setting with my STBXW. The last few times she needed something from me, she actually asked instead of telling me. These boundaries help me feel safe and in control of the sitch.

I'll be starting up with a Divorce Care group next week. I've heard good things about it from others here, so hopefully this'll be another outlet for me to handle things and grow as a person.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

At one point, I began to feel pity for my W. Sitting there staring that the phone and sneaking off every time she got message. I'm GALing like crazy and W would be sitting on the couch. Couldn't help but to think that being with OM has regulated my W to this person. Depending how your W reacts will likely determine if you will continue to pity her. W have a way of knowing that you are pitying them and tend to take their frustrations out on you. So be careful in desperation that will come at you.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
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Tread, it sounds like the pity you're describing is the contemptuous version, where you kinda look down on them. I used to feel that way when my STBXW would be sneaking around on her phone too. To get me through those moments, I used to imagine she was actually smearing sh*t all over her face smile

But now what I'm feeling is a little different. It's like the pity you'd feel for a wounded animal.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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I had a pretty good weekend. The atmosphere in the house, with STBXW still living there, has started to feel better. Things haven't been confrontational, but they haven't been good either. I guess I just don't care any more.

I just hung out with the kids at home on Friday night - I got pizza and we watched a movie (well, S10 and I did, S14 played on the computer). STBXW didn't get home till around midnight. She never said she was going to be out and that I had to handle dinner. Whatever. I'm there for my boys.

On Saturday night I took the boys out. STBXW had been gone for a while since that afternoon, so we just left. A few minutes after we left I got a text from her asking where we were because she wanted to get sushi with the boys (which was news to me). I replied that I took them out, and she sent me this long-winded text about how it would be nice if I told her when I took the kids, because she just showed up at home and no one was there. I replied ok.

So the boys and I got burgers and hit a local arcade. I just found this place last week - it's amazing! It's filled with classic games from the 80s and 90s - you pay a flat rate to get in and play as much as you want. We ended up staying until the place closed at midnight. Both boys had a great time (even S14!), and I'm thinking about the monthly membership so we can go as much as we want.

The funny thing is right as they were closing, a woman who worked there started talking to me. I think she might have been hitting on me - she made a point to mention she didn't have kids during our conversation (which seems really strange in retrospect). Again, this could be nothing, but the possibility of it being something felt nice.

When we got home, STBXW was sulking around and complained that I'd brought them back home late, since they have church in the morning. She didn't inform me of this - actually we never go to church anyway. (Y'all notice how she expects me to let her know of my plans with them, but it's not a 2 way street?) I told her she never informed me of her plans. She said I should've known since she took them last weekend (for the first time in YEARS). Classic assumption of my STBXW's part.

Next morning I slept in, and I awoke to find that no-one had gone to church and STBXW was just waking up as well - go figure. She was making breakfast and asked me if I'd like any. I was hungry, so I said sure. After breakfast, I thanked her.

She then apologized that her text from the night before might have been "a little b*tchy". But then she re-iterated that she needed to know what I'm doing with the boys while we're living in the same house. I told her I'd let her know, but I reminded her that she needed to reciprocate.

Sunday afternoon I had to go find a new YMCA, since my usual one was destroyed in the flood. I found one and had an awesome workout! Afterwards, I drove home with the windows down, radio blasting, enjoying the nice breeze and country backroads. Life can be good if you let it.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Just some observations...

My STBXW cannot deal with most situations without resorting to anger. This morning she had to take S10 to an appointment. S10 is not yet really independent in terms of going through his morning routine without constant reminders and prodding. STBXW doesn't fully realize this, since I've always handled the morning routine.

She got frustrated with S10 not eating his breakfast and threatened to turn the TV off. Then she said "Holding, turn the TV off".

My response, delivered cool and calm: "I'm not taking orders from you, W". I swear, I think those may be the most meaningful words I've ever said to her.

After a minute, she got up and stormed over to the remote to turn the TV off herself. Then she berated S10 for his behavior.

A few minutes later she said it was time for S10 to go, though he was not finished breakfast. She got in her car and then proceeded to honk the horn every few minutes. This is not new behavior, but it used to send the old NG me into panic mode, trying to get someone out the house. But this time I just sat in the kitchen and told S10 that he should probably get going.

I'm so glad I'll be free from this kind of behavior, and from the emotional weight of being intertwined with it. But I do feel bad for my kids, who will continue to have to deal with her raging. I won't be around to insulate them from it.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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How does S10 respond to all this? Both my D8 and D6 get distracted easily as well and I swear I have to tell them about 10 times each morning to get dressed and eat breakfast. Between the TV and their ipads they have zero attention span smile.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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holding, I feel for you here! Even though my(can I say it now?) STBXW never had that temper to ever lash out at anyone in her life I feel somewhat relieved that it hasn't come to that. Mostly because I do have a temper and I fear I may revert into that behavior easily if prompted. Thank god for my IC! Having said that, she has been snapping at the kids as of late, all the things that the kids did that drove me nuts she now has the outburst towards them instead of me and the new me just lets it slide! I too take the same path as you regarding the kids, I just let her do what she feels necessary and deal with my kids in a polite calm manor to calm them down. She just keeps pushing them away.
Keep it up buddy, we're doing great!


Me 47 WW 44
T25 yrs M20
S18 S14 D12
Divorced 3/12/2018
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Thanks Joseph and Dusty!

Joseph, S10 has been dealing with this behavior from STBXW forever, so I guess he's used to it. But he typically throws a mini fit or argues with her. Both my sons have ADHD - they got it from her. They are a handful and she's not well equipped to deal with them.

Dusty, sorry to hear about your W's outbursts. Like you, I also find myself being calmer than I used to be. I'm much more tolerant of things not going my way and accepting of the bad things life throws at me.

Some randomness:

Last night STBXW tried to discuss the division of assets and child custody with me. I told her I wasn't interested in discussing it without L's. She kept asking why not, and I told her if she kept pushing the issue, the conversation would be over - I now realize I should have ended the conversation at this point. She pried about the house a bit, and I said I'd considered keeping it, but wasn't sure how I could afford it. She pushed some more about the kids and told me she didn't think I would stoop to trying to get more than 50% custody. I reiterated that I wasn't talking about it. She asked me what I wanted from her, and I told her I just want to get on with my life. She said "yeah, me too."

I read through EyeTie's old thread last night - it was very inspirational. The guy wasn't able to save his M, but he saved himself and was a lot happier in the end. He didn't want to save his M once he realized how his W really was. He also seemed to do a much better job than me when it comes to letting go of anger. I'm still working on that.

On Monday I attended my first Divorce Care meeting, and oddly enough the subject was dealing with anger. TBH, it was more religious and spiritual than I expected. It's not specific to any denomination, but I guess I was expecting it to be more of a open-form support group. I'm not sure it's right for me, but I'll definitely give it another week.

One thing the Divorce Care group did make me realize is that this emotional turmoil will continue for years. I've been wondering if I'm lying to myself about where I'm at emotionally. Sometimes I get scared that by the time I fully heal, I'll have lost too much of my life to this process. I get scared about losing the opportunity to meet someone new. Then I get upset for even wanting to meet someone new.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Originally Posted By: holding

Sometimes I get scared that by the time I fully heal, I'll have lost too much of my life to this process. I get scared about losing the opportunity to meet someone new. Then I get upset for even wanting to meet someone new.


Holding what you are experiencing is called catastrophic thinking and it is all in your mind.

You'll go through the stages of grief (your in Anger now) and you will be fine. You will probably live another 50 years and I am sure you will find someone new.

The great part is you are learning many new relationship skills that will carryover into the future.

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Thanks LH!

I wasn't familiar with the term catastrophic thinking, so I had to look it up. OMG that's the worst thing ever I can't believe I do that I might as well give up. (jk) smile

But seriously, I do have a tendency to see the bad in situations, so I guess I need to be more aware of how that's affecting me.

I do mostly feel hopeful for the future, but I have my moments of doubt.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Not much new to report. Maybe AS can drop by to deliver a thought provoking 2x4 wink

My L and STBWX's L have been talking about scheduling mediation, but nothing's firm yet. I'm not looking forward to the legal side of things. Especially since I'm reading the book on splitting from someone with BPD and NPD. It's just so sad that our life together has come to this.

But in spite of that, I do feel like I'm getting better emotionally, bit by bit.

It's weird, but I think my ability to enjoy music is a good indicator of mood. After BD, I couldn't even listen to music for about a month. My brain just couldn't even deal with it. I slowly started listening more, but had to avoid anything sad that might set me off. Now I find I can listen to the sad songs too - they touch me but they don't bring on the tears.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

Speaking of music, I'm writing a song about my XW and marriage. It's titled "Goodbye Scurvy Wench" and you can sing it to the tune of Elton John's "Candle in the Wind (Goodbye Norma Jean)." Not only is it therapeutic, I think it'll be a top hit among pirates. Check for it on YouTube in the coming months (search for "Doodler and the Doods."

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Holding,

When could you meet up and where? We can start the meetups.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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JoeJoe, I replied in your thread.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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STBXW was out of town this weekend, visiting a friend (uh, yeah right). But life with just my boys and me feels normal - we had fun and kept busy. We're used to not having her around. If I can keep the house, I think this'll be okay for us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "the kids will be fine" people. But I do think this might not be quite as horrible for them as I'd imagined.

The transformation of this process is scary. I do wonder sometimes where the real me is in all of this. I look back on myself pre-BD, fat and complacent, and I recognize my flaws in the M. I look back at the me immediately after BD, and I see someone desperately - and embarrassingly - trying to hold on to something that was already gone. Now my anger is wearing off a bit and I'm looking down the road unsure about what's next. The future me will probably look back on me now and see someone different as well. I guess I just have to tell myself, that no matter where I am in the process, I'm doing the best I can.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "the kids will be fine" people. But I do think this might not be quite as horrible for them as I'd imagined.


Obviously you are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. So plan A did not work out so kick the $hit out of plan B right? My kids have adapted and I think are doing a good job of adjusting. I know if they had their choice they would want their family back together however I do think it will be much easier on them if they see you and your W interacting in a positive manner.

Quote:
I do wonder sometimes where the real me is in all of this. I look back on myself pre-BD, fat and complacent, and I recognize my flaws in the M. I look back at the me immediately after BD, and I see someone desperately - and embarrassingly - trying to hold on to something that was already gone.


You got your lazy in your MR and with life. It happens, it happened to me. I know I won't let it happen again smile We all did things after BD that looking back are embarrassing. Mine lasted for roughly 3 weeks and then I did a big temperature check a month after she moved out. It's normal, don't beat yourself up. You got your confidence back now though so there is no looking back!


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Thanks for the feedback, Joseph.

I had my second meeting for Divorce Care last night. I'm still not sold on it. There's a lot of focus on going through the program, and we always seem rushed when it comes to open discussions with the members. Maybe it's just my group. I'll give it at least one more try.

I'm starting to realize a lot of my pain has to do with rejection. It's not so much that I lost my STBXW, but that she no longer wanted me. It's an insult to my ego. I wasn't good enough, so I was discarded. That really hurts, considering my STBXW was the one who always treated me like an underling in the MR. Like I said, I probably should have left years ago. But my strong sense of commitment kept me stuck in a rotten R.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just playing sour grapes with myself. Like maybe the only way to save my ego is to see all the bad things in the R, and to reframe things in a harsher light. "Maybe it's for the best. She was bad to me anyway." Thoughts?

Last week my IC said it's not codependent of me to want to find someone new. It's a basic human need, and it's normal. So I think I'm going to have my eyes open for new R opportunities. Every guy I've talked to said they dated too soon after D. But maybe it's part of the process of getting to a better place, as long as I'm not trying to "use" anyone along the way.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Originally Posted By: Holding
Sometimes I wonder if I'm just playing sour grapes with myself. Like maybe the only way to save my ego is to see all the bad things in the R, and to reframe things in a harsher light. "Maybe it's for the best. She was bad to me anyway." Thoughts?

I'm definitely guilty of this. It's really a mechanism we use to make coping with it easier. I think it is called "synthetic happiness", i.e. we are convincing ourselves that we are better off.

Ultimately I think we would have left our M if it was THAT bad for us. I think it was most likely at least mediocre but we personally didn't have the right conversation tools to make it better. Every long-term R is going to require a sh1tton of work from both. Don't expect to jump into another R and it being magically better.

Originally Posted By: Holding

Last week my IC said it's not codependent of me to want to find someone new. It's a basic human need, and it's normal. So I think I'm going to have my eyes open for new R opportunities. Every guy I've talked to said they dated too soon after D. But maybe it's part of the process of getting to a better place, as long as I'm not trying to "use" anyone along the way.

It's not codependent to WANT someone new but you have to ask yourself if it's really what you're after OR if you are trying to fill a void your X left, i.e. you NEED someone new.

The reason why we need time after a breakup is that we just can't select a proper potential partner, since we most of the time come with a need. Thus we might end up selecting someone who is not fully compatible with us and we can't see it until later. Then we are also shifting the emotional pain, which will come back when the rebound realization happens and the new R dies. Rebound relationships CAN obviously work, but I still personally think it's better to learn to be an individual again so you gain back your strength, you have had time to really self-reflect what went wrong, you have corrected the issues, picked new R skills and so on.

I think way too many people rush into dating without using the time to make better version of themselves. Also, they become way too needy and try to build a R directly without dating multiple people. It's just a recipe of a highly potential disaster. Too many people just can't be ALONE. We are not defined by our relationships and we do not need a partner to be happy.


In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced
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Thanks, LC! This is some good stuff to think about.

Originally Posted By: lcause
I'm definitely guilty of this. It's really a mechanism we use to make coping with it easier. I think it is called "synthetic happiness", i.e. we are convincing ourselves that we are better off.


I didn't know there was a name for this, so thanks. TBH, I've seen divorcees do this before - "Look at me! I'm soooo happy!" I always thought it was pathetic and transparent. Now I'm on the other side of the fence. Hmmm...

Originally Posted By: lcause
Ultimately I think we would have left our M if it was THAT bad for us. I think it was most likely at least mediocre but we personally didn't have the right conversation tools to make it better.


Good point. I guess I never reached my breaking point in the MR, but my STBXW did.

Originally Posted By: lcause
Every long-term R is going to require a sh1tton of work from both. Don't expect to jump into another R and it being magically better.


I don't have any expectations that it will be magically better (but after BD I did fantasize about how great our MR would be if W decided to come back). I do think I need to spend time being very picky with who I allow myself to be close to.

Originally Posted By: lcause
I think way too many people rush into dating without using the time to make better version of themselves. Also, they become way too needy and try to build a R directly without dating multiple people. It's just a recipe of a highly potential disaster. Too many people just can't be ALONE. We are not defined by our relationships and we do not need a partner to be happy.


I agree. I do want to try to date a lot so I can feel like I've really looked at what's out there. I think of it like shopping for shoes: I'm picky about shoes, so I'm gonna go to multiple stores, spend time browsing, and trying on lots of different pairs until I find the one I like.

I'm not (or at least the old me used to not be) one to jump into a R just to be in one. I spent most of my early 20s single. I'd like to think it's a want for me, not a need.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Originally Posted By: Holding
...lots of different pairs until I find the one I like.


Holding,

The subconscious always gives you away. You won't be able to find the one you like if you're into trying different pairs. But you know, the twin thing is a common fantasy (although I've never given it any thought myself). Tisk tisk.

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Originally Posted By: holding
Every guy I've talked to said they dated too soon after D. But maybe it's part of the process of getting to a better place, as long as I'm not trying to "use" anyone along the way.


I don't think I dated too soon, but I do think I dated too much. Everyone will tell you to slow down, do this, do that, but there are some things you just need to figure out for yourself. As Rod Stewart said "you have to learn, just like me, and that's the hardest way"

I will say that I had a major fear prior to D that I wouldn't be able to find anyone to date -- not because there would be no one available, but because I wouldn't be able to find anyone who would be as well matched to me as W was. Everyone told me dating would be no problem but I didn't believe them.

Dating was no problem.

Take care of yourself and don't borrow trouble from the future, you've got enough to deal with today!

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
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Thanks, Acc. I'm not looking to borrow trouble from the future. But I am looking to borrow hope.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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I've been thinking about the stages of grief. I've read that bargaining comes after anger, although I know the stages aren't necessarily sequential. What would the bargaining stage look like for us? I kinda feel like I've already been through bargaining, immediately after BD, when I tried to do all the things to show my STBXW how much I wanted her and our M.

Last night my STBXW quickly informed me she'll need knee surgery (again, it's a recurring problem), and she'd get a female friend to take her to the appointment. At first I just responded "ok". But I realized I did actually feel bad for her. And as my anger's cooled off, I can see how I've treated her very cold ever since she said she decided on D. This cold person is not who I want to be.

So a few minutes later when she came back in the room, I said "Hey, even with everything going on between us, I do feel bad for you." She didn't respond, but I didn't really say it expecting any response from her. I said it so I could feel good about myself.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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The bargaining stage is characterized by attempting to negotiate with a higher power or someone or something you feel, whether realistically or not, that has some control over the situation. You may make promises to God in return for the painful situation not to occur or for things to go back to how they were before the loss or change.

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Thanks, LH. Yes, it sounds like I've already been through that. I made my promises to God a couple of months ago.

And a belated thanks to Doodler, who always manages to find the innuendo in any situation. smile


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Originally Posted By: Holding
And a belated thanks to Doodler, who always manages to find the innuendo in any situation. smile


Holding,

Sorry about the innuendo. Your wife sounds as if she's similar to my XW, but I don't know what to tell you because I'm still trying to figure it out for myself. Thus, the innuendo.

Regarding your grief, don't be too hard on yourself; you're probably not a cold person at all. Give yourself some time process everything.

After separation, I was hard on myself for getting into a relationship with a woman that had such a difficult childhood. It took me a while to realize that I didn't know much about the bad things that happened during her childhood until well after we were married. I know that sounds ridiculous, but we'd been married long enough that I hadn't really thought about when I'd learned about the various abuses that she suffered. After I realized that I couldn't have known the extent of her abuse it was easier to come to terms with my own shortcomings and not beat myself up for things I couldn't have taken into consideration.

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Doodler, no need to apologize for the innuendo. You're so good at it - I hope you've been able to parlay it into some kind of advantage in your life smile

Thanks for the advice. Taking time is hard. I do feel myself getting impatient, wanting to move on and escape the pain.

On being cold, I do realize that I was somewhat "emotionally unavailable" for parts of my MR. I'm not sure if that's because of who I am or how I reacted to my STBXW. In any case, it's something I need to improve on. My current sitch makes it so hard. I can't really try out the new me with her. I have a new set of tools, but all I'm presented with now is rotten wood.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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So this weekend was a real adventure! (insert usual disclaimer about long post here)

I had plans to head to San Antonio and meet up with JoeJoe on Saturday. On Friday I texted my STBXW to say I was leaving Saturday and coming back on Sunday. She asked me where I was going and I said I wasn't comfortable sharing that info. Her response was "wow thanks. Use protection." When I read that, I just busted out laughing at work. The fact that she might actually be jealous was just too rich. I never responded.

About 30 minutes later she texted again saying "Holding, I don't know what the big deal is. I tell you where I'm going. But I don't care where you go and who you're with. You deserve privacy and happiness. I'm sorry." Once again, I didn't respond.

The next day, I dressed up and got ready to leave. My STBXW saw me leaving with my packed bag, but we never talked. I got on the road to SA, and about an hour later, my transmission cr@pped out! I was stuck in the middle of nowhere, and I was thinking to myself, "this svcks, but I can handle it and figure something out". The old me would've been freaking out. The old me would've never decided to drive to another city alone and meet up with a stranger.

I was calling roadside assistance, when fortunately some old jimbob mechanic guy stopped. He checked it out and said I should be able to head back home if I kept it under 60mph. At one point, the cops and an ambulance even showed up - apparently someone saw me in my car and thought I was slumped over at the wheel! The mechanic guy wished me luck and I drove off. I was so grateful for his help, and I wish I could have done something for him. The guy saved me at least $300 in towing fees!

So I limped back into town, dropped off my car at the dealership, and got a practically brand-new vehicle as a loaner. (This loaner car is important later.) I was able to reschedule with JoeJoe for lunch on Sunday, so I headed back in to SA and checked in to my hotel for the night, thankfully without incident.

On Sunday, on the way to meet JoeJoe, I noticed someone's car was broken down in a parking lot. I drove past at first, and then I thought about what that old guy had done for me. So I turned around and decided to ask them if they needed any help. I don't know cr@p about cars really, but I figured I could give them a ride or something. It turned out they had help on the way. But I drove away from that feeling a little more confident and happy.

So JoeJoe and I finally met up, and we spent about 2 hours talking. He has a lot of great positive energy, and I think he's got a shot at saving his M. If not, I know the dude will definitely be OK. JoeJoe, I hope my cynicism didn't rub off on you! If we can arrange another meetup for the Texas folks, I'll be there. If AS can make it, he should probably stop at the lumber yard on the way in. wink

On my way back home, STBXW texted me to say she hoped I accepted her apology from the other day (about the protection thing). She admitted she was out of line and sarcastic. So I thanked her for the apology. I did ask myself though, why should she care if I accept her apology? Whether I accept it our not is a personal matter (and STBXW doesn't get to share in my personal matters any more).

When I got back home, STBXW didn't have much to say. I did notice her looking at my bag (looking for an airline tag I think) and checking out my new shoes. But when she saw this strange car sitting out front, she started hitting me with all these questions. I explained I had transmission problems, dropped my car off, and got a loaner. She left to go to the store, and started texting me saying "You bought that car. I'm not stupid. That's a temporary buyer tag on the car." I said I didn't appreciate her tone (standing up for myself again). I reiterated that it was a loaner, and we would talk about it when she got back.

When she returned, I gave her the car key and told her to look for the paperwork in the center console. She checked it out, and then seemed like she wanted to laugh off the whole thing. She said she didn't care if I bought a new car, that I could do whatever I want. But she kept asking questions about the details of when this happened, where I brought my car, what an odd coincidence this was when I was going on my trip, etc. At one point during the conversation, I turned to S10 to say something, and she touched me on the arm to get my attention. She hasn't touched me in months. But I know better than to think this is a sign of anything meaningful.

When I asked her why she was so curious about the car, she said she didn't know why we couldn't talk about it. She said "It looks like we'll be stuck in the house together for who knows how many months before we're D, so we might as well learn how to talk to each other."

While it's interesting that my STBXW has suspicions about what I'm up to and tries to downplay them, I don't think this is any indicator she's thinking about calling off the D.

And I'm not sure I would accept not getting D at this point. I know I could never go back to our old MR. I can't even imagine what a new MR with her would be like.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Holding I'm glad you had a good meetup and seem to be doing well! I do wonder why you are so cloak and dagger with W when it comes to answering her questions. It must feel to her like you're trying to provoke her with your evasiveness.

The key to "act as if", "GAL", dropping the rope and detaching is just not to let your STBX impact you at all. In the context that you don't care if they are sleeping or jumping up and down like a mad woman, it really doesn't matter what you tell them.

That's the key is not to be impacted by however they react to you. If they don't acknowledge what you said at all, who cares? If they scream at you, their lack of control is amusing. No matter what happens, your toes are still tapping and you're moving forward with your plans.

I might suggest backing off on responses that might be interpreted as passive aggressive, and just do your thing. There's no need to keep secrets.

R talk is of course off-limits. You can treat her as you would a friendly co-worker, respectful, but with lines drawn in terms of what you will share and what you won't.

I know that's confusing but its all in the nuance. I think you know what I mean.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Holding,

If you haven't returned the loaner car yet, then you have the opportunity of a lifetime. Halloween is a month away and the stores are stocking-up with Halloween stuff. Go to the store and get several tubes of fake blood. Put the blood on the ground just under the trunk and put a little under the car to make it look like the blood is draining out of the trunk. Situate everything to optimize the probability that your wife will see the blood. When she starts asking about it, act nervous and tell her you've go to go somewhere and go to the car and drive away.

It won't save your marriage, but it could be fun.

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Originally Posted By: Holding
She asked me where I was going and I said I wasn't comfortable sharing that info. Her response was "wow thanks. Use protection." When I read that, I just busted out laughing at work. The fact that she might actually be jealous was just too rich. I never responded.


Yes it's supposed to be a one way road- she dishes out all the pain and you receive it, LOL!

Quote:
So JoeJoe and I finally met up, and we spent about 2 hours talking. He has a lot of great positive energy, and I think he's got a shot at saving his M. If not, I know the dude will definitely be OK.


Glad y'all got to meet finally!

Quote:
If AS can make it, he should probably stop at the lumber yard on the way in. wink


Hahaha! I only administer 2x4's online smile

Quote:
She left to go to the store, and started texting me saying "You bought that car. I'm not stupid. That's a temporary buyer tag on the car." I said I didn't appreciate her tone (standing up for myself again). I reiterated that it was a loaner, and we would talk about it when she got back.


Yeah that's a strange reaction, after you already explained it to her. Your response was appropriate!

Quote:
And I'm not sure I would accept not getting D at this point. I know I could never go back to our old MR. I can't even imagine what a new MR with her would be like.


Yeah that's the thing. No one here is ever going back to their old M. And what would a new R with their WAS look like? I look at my XW now and cannot even imagine being married to her, in fact our M seems like some hazy, distant event from another lifetime. Strange how that happens, after BD there was nothing I wanted more than to get back together and now it just seems like it would be super awkward, like marrying an aunt or something, LOL!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Quote:
Strange how that happens, after BD there was nothing I wanted more than to get back together and now it just seems like it would be super awkward, like marrying an aunt or something, LOL!


Unfortunately or maybe fortunately I still find my W smoking hot! smile


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Thanks for the replies Acc, AS, Joseph, and Doodler! (yes, even Doodler)

Originally Posted By: Accuray
I do wonder why you are so cloak and dagger with W when it comes to answering her questions. It must feel to her like you're trying to provoke her with your evasiveness.


MWD does often say that we should be mysterious. Even JoeJoe said I should let my STBXW think I may be up to something. But really, I'm doing this to loosen my STBXW's control over me. For our whole M, she's almost always called the shots, and I let her, sadly. So now I'm showing her that she doesn't get to know my business. This is a boundary for me.

Originally Posted By: Accuray
I might suggest backing off on responses that might be interpreted as passive aggressive, and just do your thing. There's no need to keep secrets.


Which of my responses struck you as P/A? I'd honestly like to know. It's something I'm trying to work on, and I need to be more aware.

On the aspect of secrets, my STBXW is NOSY. She will pick at the tiniest detail till she gets what she wants. I'm going to do what I want, and she doesn't need to know. She doesn't get to have a microscope on my life any more.

AS, my M is already starting to look like a hazy memory from long ago. I think back and ask how I let myself live that way.

Joseph, I sometimes look at my wife and think she's attractive, but it's only a superficial observation. Beauty is only skin deep.

Doodler, get help wink


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

I dont think it will hurt to tell her you went to SA. But if truly don't want to, then dont. But her knowing you went to SA is not asking as knowing why you went.

You are doing good.

Keep up the great work.

Did you smile and ask how was her weekend?


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Hey JoeJoe, no I didn't manage to smile and ask her about her weekend. I just don't think I can pull off the smile and have it come off as sincere. I'm not a master at that like you are. I was thinking about asking her about the weekend, but I didn't have an opportunity since the questioning about the car really put things in a different mood. But the next day I did ask her how her knee scan at the doctor's went. So she stopped for just a minute to tell me about it.

SOMETHING BIG (maybe)

Yesterday was a rough day for me. I'm dealing with car issues, and to top it off STBXW and I had a disagreement once again about shared finances. Looking through our bank statements, I was suddenly hit with all this emotion about everything. So I was honestly in a pretty foul mood last night. She asked me what was wrong and I said I was frustrated with the car sitch. She told me she was sorry I was going through it. I thanked her for her sympathy.

She asked me if we could talk, and she joined me in the MBR. We talked for over an hour. Big-time temp check. I think I need some advice...

She started out sitting in a chair while I sat on the bed. She told me she's conflicted about what she's doing. She has doubts, and she's felt this way ever since she told me she wanted the D, back in July. She wanted to talk to me sooner, but could tell I wasn't interested in talking to her. She said her L (who is also her friend) told her it wasn't too late to stop this. And a female friend asked her if she was sure she wanted to do this.

She ran through the problems in our M and why she came to feel the way she did. I listened and validated. She talked about her feelings. I validated and said I was feeling a lot of the same things. She asked me why I did what I did in the MR (being emotionally distant, which she described as emotional abuse). I talked about how I was hurt as well. Through this while convo, she was vulnerable. She cried and said this wasn't easy. I told her I understood; I'm sure it's rough.

She said she got off Facebook, because she kept getting hit on by all these guys, plus she was upset after everyone in my family unfriended her. The fact that she dropped FB came as a total shock to me, since she's always enjoyed that attention and praise so much. It honestly made me wonder if she's making some worthwhile changes.

I mentioned I went to lunch with a female coworker (she's married) who also told me about getting messages from random guys on FB, and how prevalent that is. STBXW said I could take her out to lunch some time. I said I'd think about it, and I'm sure I made a surprised face too.

She told me about her weekend out of town from a couple of weeks ago - seeing her family, hanging out with old friends, getting drunk and throwing up. I laughed, because there were genuinely funny parts. She got animated and her mood really improved.

I said I felt like I was talking to my old W, the person I used to know, for the first time since BD. I thanked her for sharing that view of herself with me. She said she missed her best friend (me), and being able to talk to me. I told her I missed that too.

She said she felt like she was sharing, and I wasn't. I could tell she wanted to know about last weekend, but I didn't tell her. I talked about how work's been going, how I'm trying out some new projects to get out of my comfort zone. I told her about my second time skydiving, which she didn't know about. She asked me if I would have ever changed if she hadn't mentioned D. I told her I wasn't sure.

We talked about how couples get back together, I can't remember how we got on the topic. I told her I've read that it's hard work, requiring commitment from both people, IC for both, MC, and plenty of time. She just kinda listened.

She asked me if I think we can ever be friends. I said maybe, since we'll be seeing each other probably for the rest of our lives (because of the kids). She mentioned 2 different women she knows who were divorced and ended up back together with their exes. She moved to the bed and laid at the foot of it.

She asked me what books I've been reading, since she's seen me reading. I told her about the NG book and codependency book. She asked if was codependent in our M, and I said I think I was, that I looked to her for my sense of worth and value.

She asked if I could ever trust her again. I told her maybe. When I asked her the same thing, she didn't really answer, but said she doesn't trust me at all right now.

She was starting to get tired. She asked if I ever think about my life being good after the D, like if I look forward to it. I said sometimes. Once I said that, she said "that's what I needed to know." Her mood changed.

She got up and asked if she could use the garden tub in the master bath. I told her yes. I left the room to go do something else while she took a bath. After her bath, she asked if she could use the tub again some other time, and I said yes, as long as she respects my privacy and knocks before coming in.

Then she said "Holding, a while back you told me my heart was somewhere else, with someone else. But this whole time my heart's been stuck behind a rock and chained to a wall. But I think your heart has moved on." She dropped that last part like a bomb, and then walked out of the room. As she walked away, I said "You're wrong."

So what do I make of this? Well, I think I did some things very well, and other things very poorly. Here's my take: She's about to be 100% committed to the D, and wanted to deal with some lingering feelings. But it's tempting to see here a possible change of heart - not a 180 from her, but maybe the start of a slow U turn.

Any advice, fellow DBers?


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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holding -- interesting!

Remember to believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do.

You might be tempted to view this situation that W has dangled a carrot and if you respond "the right way" you can reconcile.

I would avoid that way of looking at things at all costs.

YOU ARE THE PRIZE TO BE WON.

If there's going to be a reconciliation, it is SHE who has to prove to you that she wants it, because she is the one that strayed. You don't have to prove that you're committed. I would take her smarmy "that's what I needed to know" comment and completely ignore it.

I'm not suggesting a Mexican standoff here where neither party will make the first move, but often the WAS will want to keep you on the shelf as an insurance policy, everything feels safer if they have the option to return.

When they begin to sense that you're no longer waiting on the shelf and may no longer be available, they panic, and will manipulate you into thinking you have a chance of reconciliation, and as soon as you come back to the table they will distance again.

I suspect that this is what your wife is doing -- she's uncomfortable with the fact that you've been distancing, she doesn't like it at all, so she's trying to tease you back to the waiting area. Don't fall for it. If anything, keep distancing, keep going out and having fun. Be the man you want to be and keep her off of your emotional radar!

Do you really believe "she kept getting hit on by all these guys" on Facebook or do you think she was saying that to manipulate you?

I obviously know tons of women on FB and despite many of them being very attractive, none of them are constantly being hit on by "all these guys". There are a million dating apps for that.

I would say you're best bet is to limit what you reveal about yourself and your state of mind in these conversations. Listen and validate but don't volunteer much. The more she wonders what you're up to and how you're feeling the better.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
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In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Oh, and when she said she doesn't trust you at all right now, do you know why she feels that way? I'm not asking you to mind-read, I don't know if she's commented on that before.

Often cheaters don't trust anyone, but its a projection of their own guilt versus anything you've done, but obviously if it IS linked to your own behavior you certainly don't want to be untrustworthy.

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Holding, sounds like you did an excellent job of listening and validating! Nice work! I totally agree with Acc, that was nothing more than a temperature check on her part. She was hoping you'd pour out your heart to her so she could check the "Plan B still in place" box next to your name and go back to her game plan. Good job in not falling into the trap (except for that last "you're wrong" comment, would have been better to leave her hanging there). That's not to say she was lying, I think she is being genuine about being confused and such. But don't assume she wants to recon, that's still quite a ways off.

So what do you take away from this? What you're doing is working. The fact that she's temp checking you means she's no longer sure she's got you on the hook. That's exactly what you want her to think. She needs to learn to miss you.

I also agree with Acc on the trust issue, she's projecting her own lack of trustworthiness onto you. The most paranoid people I've seen in my life are cheaters. One thing nearly all of them have in common is they think their spouse/GF is cheating on THEM (ironic, isn't it). I knew a woman that was so loyal to her H that she put the blinders on about his very blatant and obvious affair. He became so paranoid that SHE was having an A that he insisted that she get tested for STDs and show him the printout! Of course he did not offer to do the same! By the way she did do it, that was one of those moments that I quite literally face-palmed myself, LOL! I'm not saying your W is cheating, just that deceptive people are paranoid that everyone is deceptive to them in the same way that cheaters are paranoid about cheating.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
The most paranoid people I've seen in my life are cheaters.


Well, Holding's wife has good reason to be paranoid; he drives around with a cadaver in the trunk of his car.

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So keep the misterious GAL Holding alive!


WW H(me): 53
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T: 27 M: 22
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Nice job holding! I will also say, she started off in the chair and worked her way to the end of the bed thing seems like a super temp check. She wanted take a bath in the garden tube and you left the room good job. Seems like she is trying to figure what you are thinking and trying to get specific reactions from you.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Originally Posted By: doodler
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
The most paranoid people I've seen in my life are cheaters.


Well, Holding's wife has good reason to be paranoid; he drives around with a cadaver in the trunk of his car.



Yeah that's weird, who does that! (reaches behind back and pushes dangling hand back into car trunk)


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Thanks for the replies everyone! I needed a good reality check on this one. Now I need another.

On the trust issue, her position seems to be that I've been keeping secrets from her by not telling her where I'm going and who I'm with. There's also the legal side, which I refuse to discuss with her without the presence of Ls. Other than that, I don't care too much whether she trusts me - she's the one who has to work to get trust back. I know I'm a person of integrity.

I had my IC yesterday, and we spent almost the whole time talking about this conversation from 2 nights ago. IC suggested that STBXW needs to be the one to show a big sign here (like Acc suggested), not drop little hints and expect me to do the work. She suggested I remain guarded, but open to further communications with STBXW.

When STBXW got home last night, she seemed different. She said hi and asked me how my day was. She was more conversational. She ate dinner with me and the boys. I tried to be accommodating and pleasant. The mood in the house was noticeably different. She asked if we could talk again after dinner, and I said yes. I'll admit that I thought all this might be a positive sign. I tried to keep my expectations in check.

She came in the MBR and this time laid on the bed where she used to sleep. She rolled on her side and faced me. She asked if I had anything I wanted to talk about. I told her I thought she wanted to talk; I didn't really have much to bring up, but was open to letting her take the lead.

She asked when I thought we could do mediation. This was not what I was expecting to hear, but I tried to play it cool. I told her, probably in the middle of next month. She said she was hoping we could do it sooner.

She asked how I would feel if she moved out. I told her she could if she wanted to. She said the tension in the house between us has been very uncomfortable for her, until the conversation we had the night before. I agreed. I think she was expecting me to try to talk her out of it.

I told her she didn't seem confused like she had the night before. She reiterated that she was confused. She told me I've done nothing in the past 3 months to show her that I wanted our R. She said I've been distant and cold. I told her I've come to accept what appears inevitable. I said she is the one who filed, she is the one who's lawyer is moving the case forward. I said I've seen no signs from her that she's not 100% full-steam ahead on this.

We just both paused for a minute. Then she said she was going to put in an offer on a house, and she wanted to know if I'd be willing to sign a paper saying I wouldn't try to claim the house if it closes before the D is final. I told her I needed to think about this and talk to my L. I asked if she was planning on using her retirement funds to help with the purchase of the house, and she said I needed to talk to my L about that.

She asked what my plans for the house were. I told her I didn't know. She asked for more details, and I said I didn't want to talk about it. I also asked her not to ask me again. She asked why and I said I didn't need to give her a reason.

She tried asking more, telling me that she didn't care if I wanted to keep the house, that she just needed to know to plan for the future. I told her I didn't want to talk any more and wanted to go to bed. She left the room.

This morning I was angry. There were some tears. I realized the big talk the day before was probably just to soften me up for the her own purposes. On my way out of the house, STBXW asked me to let her know what's going on with my car. I said OK. She told me "have a good day" as I walked past her. I replied "you too". But when I said it I was angry, and it probably came out in my voice.

I am SO ANGRY right now. I feel manipulated. I'm really upset with myself for even entertaining the thought of taking her back. Though there may be some real confusion in her, I think this was all just a ploy to use me for her purposes. Now she may even be using funds I'm entitled to to buy a new house, and she actually wants me to sign my rights away. Unbelievable. I'm tired of being the oil for her gears.

It's like she's playing chicken with me. Waiting for me to flinch. But this whole thing has just hardened my resolve. It's given me a little anger back, when my anger was really on its way out.

The thing is, I know better. In Chris's thread, I've seen his W play the same games with him. And I've seen Henwen's H make moves to open the lines of communication and try to get along, only to really move the D forward.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Holding,

I'm sorry yesterday was difficult.

In my case, I actually pushed for my wife to leave even though I didn't really want her to go, but I felt like it was time for her to go. Unexpectedly, I found that my life was much better and brighter after she left. The eggshells were gone. I could get things done. It was miraculous.

A couple of weeks after my wife moved out, my anger started to escalate. My fog was clearing. I started to clearly see how poorly I'd been treated. She was a bully. She'd rubbed my nose in sh*t for a long time. After that, I'd resolved not be treated like a doormat by her ever again. I could clearly see that I had to live my life for myself and my sons and she'd have to find her own way.

I don't know if you'll have the same experience I had, but I suspect you will. As abysmal as it may seem right now, you have a bright future ahead of you; this is just a bump in the road.

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Holding,

Doodles is absolutely correct. Never truly wanted my W to move out, but it had to be done. A little over a month late and I feel so much better about myself. The home has never been cleaner, S13 and I have gotten closer. And I clearly seen W for the person who she really is. Not just since the A, but for who she has always been.


MR: 15 T:17
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I have to agree with doodler and Tread. I never wanted XW to move out and didn't want divorce, but it had to be done and it was for the best.

Focus on you. Focus on your kids. Do right by yourself and by them.


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Holding, as I haven't done this yet but I do have to agree with the three above me on this. My W will be asked to leave the house in the next couple of days. We(the kids and me) don't need her anymore! We want her but don't need her. I just wish I had the strength to do this months ago. She is adding nothing anymore, all the things she used to do she doesn't, grocery shopping, laundry, cooking, etc..... she only cooks and prepares meals for herself now, I have taken on everything and I love it! I think this is just the next step in detachment. It is the only way for you(us) to move on, or at least act like your're moving on. Good luck! It is getting easier.


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Originally Posted By: Holding

On the trust issue, her position seems to be that I've been keeping secrets from her by not telling her where I'm going and who I'm with.


And that is her business because ___________. (fill in the blank) How dare you get a life!

Quote:
She came in the MBR and this time laid on the bed where she used to sleep. She rolled on her side and faced me. She asked if I had anything I wanted to talk about. I told her I thought she wanted to talk; I didn't really have much to bring up, but was open to letting her take the lead.

She asked when I thought we could do mediation.


Well there you go. If you thought yesterday was anything other than a temp check, that should answer that! How sweet of her to try and bait you into talking first, I'm sure what she was hoping was for you to say "I just want to say I still love you and will wait for you forever and ever" so that she could get a little more mileage out of sticking that knife between your ribs. Why just stick it straight in when you can twist it like a corkscrew?

Quote:
I told her, probably in the middle of next month. She said she was hoping we could do it sooner.


Awww, the S train just can't move fast enough for her!

Quote:
She asked how I would feel if she moved out. I told her she could if she wanted to. She said the tension in the house between us has been very uncomfortable for her, until the conversation we had the night before. I agreed. I think she was expecting me to try to talk her out of it.


All your responses to her were spot on. Nicely done! That is exactly what you needed to do. Open the cage door. You don't push her out, you just open the door. If she wants to leave then that's her right and you will respect her decision.

Quote:
She told me I've done nothing in the past 3 months to show her that I wanted our R. She said I've been distant and cold.


This is in the WAS handbook. Page 172, paragraph 3. The instructions state "use the following line as a method to deflect blame from you to your LBH and keep him off balance. Say it as angrily as possible for maximum effect. If he cries and asks for a tissue, tell him to use his sleeve."

Quote:
I said she is the one who filed, she is the one who's lawyer is moving the case forward. I said I've seen no signs from her that she's not 100% full-steam ahead on this.

We just both paused for a minute. Then she said she was going to put in an offer on a house, and she wanted to know if I'd be willing to sign a paper saying I wouldn't try to claim the house if it closes before the D is final.


I mean WOW. No rebuttal at all to your comments that she's the one moving things forward, LOL! And she follows that up with a request for you to sign away rights!! She needs to go back to the WAS handbook, she totally missed the part where she's supposed to soften you up first with carrots such as "maybe things will work out in the future, this is just temporary" and perhaps some gratuitous sex.

Quote:
I told her I needed to think about this and talk to my L. I asked if she was planning on using her retirement funds to help with the purchase of the house, and she said I needed to talk to my L about that.


Good response again. Given her attitude I'm not sure I would bother talking to your L, just tell her no, you can't sign the paper. If she wants to buy a house she can wait until the D is finalized. You can't stop the D but that doesn't mean you need to make yourself a doormat either.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Thanks for the encouragement, y'all! I've actually been hoping she would leave. But now that it's facing me, I do have a moment of doubt and sadness that it's happening. I frankly resent that she almost made it seem like my response would affect her decision, like I'm partly responsible. Just take your cr@p and go!

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Well there you go. If you thought yesterday was anything other than a temp check, that should answer that! How sweet of her to try and bait you into talking first, I'm sure what she was hoping was for you to say "I just want to say I still love you and will wait for you forever and ever" so that she could get a little more mileage out of sticking that knife between your ribs. Why just stick it straight in when you can twist it like a corkscrew?


You know, the cruelty of all this is what really gets me the most. I mean, what motivates her to be this evil? I guess it's the selfishness. It's not really a purposeful vengeance against me, it's just that I happen to be in her steamroller's path, and she really needs to get to the store for some ice cream.

Look - my sister was a WAW, and she's been a great counsel to me through this whole process. But even she says she never tormented her XH like this or played these kind of games with him. IT JUST MAKES ME SO ANGRY! SHE'S SO FAKE! FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!!!!

(okay, I feel a little better now)

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
She needs to go back to the WAS handbook, she totally missed the part where she's supposed to soften you up first with carrots such as "maybe things will work out in the future, this is just temporary"


Ah, AS, that was the night before, with all the talk of her 2 friends who ended up back together with their exes. I guess she could have done a better job of connecting the dots though.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
and perhaps some gratuitous sex.


I'm in before Doodler calls dibs on this!

(Wait, "in"? I'm just making it worse.)

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Given her attitude I'm not sure I would bother talking to your L, just tell her no, you can't sign the paper. If she wants to buy a house she can wait until the D is finalized. You can't stop the D but that doesn't mean you need to make yourself a doormat either.


I did end up talking to the L anyway, and she advised me not to sign, of course. I wasn't really considering it, as I had a bad feeling about the whole thing. The second STBXW mentioned it, I knew it was fishy. I was also concerned about her using certain funds as a downpayment, but my L said not to worry, it'll all come out in the end, and the judge will not look kindly on any fraud. My L did ask if my STBXW smokes pot, because she's obviously living in Lala Land. smile


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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I tried a little experiment last night. JoeJoe has encouraged me to smile more and make small talk with my STBXW. So in spite of how I feel about her, I decided to go with JoeJoe's recommendations. At this point, there's nothing left to lose.

She seemed a little caught off guard when she came home and I asked her how her day was. She disappeared into her room for a good while. But when she came out, she was asking about my car sitch. She asked what my plans were for the boys this weekend. And we talked about how S14 never wants to do anything but stay home.

Some other things:
- She asked "Are you okay?"
- She asked "What's wrong?"
- She stood close to me when she talked.
- She asked me if a dress looked okay on her, and I said yes. She's got a big social event she's going to tonight.
- She told me about a BBQ at her brother's house this weekend, and said I was invited, but understood if I didn't want to go.

At the end of the night, she said "Holding, I know this is a sh1tty situation we're going through, but I want you to know I'm trying to be civil and get along with you. We're going to be a part of each other's lives because of the kids, so I hope we can be friends." While she said this I made sure I wore a pleasant expression, and at the end I nodded and said thanks.

My takeaway is that she totally wants to friendzone me and cake eat. She wasn't disrespectful or nasty all night, because she's getting her way now. It is easier to be around her when she's in a good mood.

I suppose I could keep this up, but I don't really know what the point would be. It alleviates the tension in the house, but it's just a hollow charade. And I feel like I'm stifling myself by going through the motions.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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It seems like you were worse off after this interaction than before. I am all up for being positive and chill in short interactions, but the in-house situation makes that very difficult to keep up.

Quote:
"Holding, I know this is a sh1tty situation we're going through, but I want you to know I'm trying to be civil and get along with you. We're going to be a part of each other's lives because of the kids, so I hope we can be friends."


My W basically said the same thing to me, to which I had told her that I have no interest in being her friend. I will be civil and get along with her and communicate completely when it came to the kids, but outside of that, I am not her friend. She didn't say anything to that, but NC and going dark has conveyed that message as well, which is good for me emotionally. I don't care if she thinks I don't care anymore.

I think it is an attempt to friendzone and if you're okay with that, go for it, but I don't think that's the case. I am certainly not okay with that.


No one is coming to save you!

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Holding,

I think you did great. Now you take your confidence, happiness, and joy back. Once you see she don't control any of those things, you will begin to be yourself more around her.

You can ask anybody on this planet how their day is. It's a questions you could your neighbor or sister. If she wants to go into more let her.

AS, talks about detaching with love. We dont have to be mean, and angry, what is that going to prove. I'm of the mindset that I will not let any person make me angry anymore. If I want to smile I will. You cant become happy if you are allowing a person to keep you angry.

Also, if she says she wants to be friends while being pleasant say, "I'm your husband, not a friend". And let the conversation continue.

This is hard, and by far the hardest thing I ever had to do.

We can't control the outcome, we can only control ourselves. And every decision made along this journey can be with, confidence and joy, no matter the outcome. Let no person steal your joy and they will no longer disrespect are take you for granted.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

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Originally Posted By: Holding

You know, the cruelty of all this is what really gets me the most. I mean, what motivates her to be this evil?


My XW started out that way, and she actually told me she was doing it because she thought it would make the transition to D easier on me. Easier! Wow! But she said she felt so bad treating my like crap that she couldn't do it, and she never did again from that point on. I guess it doesn't bother your W as much, LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
She needs to go back to the WAS handbook, she totally missed the part where she's supposed to soften you up first with carrots such as "maybe things will work out in the future, this is just temporary"


Ah, AS, that was the night before, with all the talk of her 2 friends who ended up back together with their exes. I guess she could have done a better job of connecting the dots though.


Duh, not sure how I forgot that so quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
and perhaps some gratuitous sex.


I'm in before Doodler calls dibs on this!


Take it from me, it's not worth it. Post BD sex with a WAS is pretty joyless, haha!

Quote:
I was also concerned about her using certain funds as a downpayment, but my L said not to worry, it'll all come out in the end, and the judge will not look kindly on any fraud.


On the one hand your L is right, but on the other hand when it comes to D time it doesn't matter how much you're awarded if your spouse has already blown it all on a wild spending spree. That happens a lot! The court can demand that they pay you, but in the end they may or may not bother to do so. Enforcement can be tricky business.


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Thanks for the responses Maika, JoeJoe, and AS!

Maika, I have no intention of settling into a permanent friend zone. I can see how this could be useful to diffuse volatile sitches in the short term though, or possibly law low for a while.

JoeJoe, I think I'm starting to understand you on this. Me smiling is the first step in making MYSELF happy. It's not primarily for her - it's for me. It's part of detaching. I AM looking to totally break all emotional bond with STBXW, and I have been letting her steal my joy and happiness. I need to take it back.

AS, it's funny about the sex. As I first read DR, I made ML one of my long term goals with STBXW. I was determined to woo her back and was hyper-focused on it. But now I can see how it would be totally awkward and unappealing. I'm not gonna lie - the angry part of me still hopes she tries to throw that at me, just so I can reject it.

I actually went back and re-read my post where STBXW was talking about her confusion. When we talked, I guess I focused on the confusion, but the real message I think STBXW was sending me was friendship. Looking at it through that lens makes more sense. I guess I don't want to see her as totally evil. Hmmm... maybe I'm still in the bargaining stage after all.

You know what? I shouldn't be wasting my time trying to mind read. I know better. Time to not care what she thinks.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Holding,

AS 2x4ed me on that caring what she thinks aspect. Not caring and believing in none of what they and 50% of what they do are two different things. The whole point to that statement is if they make a statement and follow it up with action then give it merit, but our S, say something, with no action, thens it's unbelievable.

You absolutely right, with the paragraph you explained back to me. She no longer has control over you and that means, your happiness and joy as well. If you can become happy and joyful in this horrible situation,

1. Consider how strong and confident you will be.

2. After going through, what else could ever steal your joy and happiness.

3. Who don't wont to be around, a happy, confident, joyful, positive, optimistic person. What you give off is what you get in return. Period.

4. IMO, we all on here what some form of revenge (I know we shouldn't but we do), but I think one of the ultimate revenges would be placing doubt in a person's mind, who was so resolute about how they felt about and precieved you. They just knew they had you pegged. "You will never change". Well guess what here I am better than ever.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Be calm and deliberate when you speak. Check your emotions and some how you have to get over the anger. Anything less is driven from our male ego which we need to harness. We can't operate from a place of revenge. What good will that do? She will sense it, smell it just as she senses when she is loosing you. Call it what you want but I believe women in general instinctively can read a man and his actions. They can see right through us.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
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Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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J9,
I know women can see thru us. The revenge statement, is that little internal voice inside. I'm talking about revenge in the form of getting back at someone or seeing them hurt.

You are right anger leads us down the wrong path.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Quote:
The revenge statement, is that little internal voice inside. I'm talking about revenge in the form of getting back at someone or seeing them hurt.


I use this internally to help fuel my workouts, and keep me focused on my goals. I am going to make her pay smile.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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I told STBXW that I would not sign her waiver so she can buy another house. She was infuriated. She's moved back into the MBR since she claims I'm preventing her from moving out.

HELP


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

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Originally Posted By: Holding

HELP


Eat a lot of beans and always be the first to go to bed.

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Holding,

Is she sleeping in the same bed as you now?

IMO don't change nothing you were doing. She's trying to get a reaction out you. Shes trying to make you upset. You don't have to nothing you don't want too. She has to live with it. Keep DBing. If you took a shower and walked in the room nakedbto get your clothes continue you do that. That's you space, you do what you want and dont fight with her. I think she is going to try and pick as many fights as possible now. If you can resist all her craziness you will make a huge statement. Go about your day like she is not there, an invisible person.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Doodler, solid plan!

JoeJoe, I know this is all about provoking me - it's actually very childish. I'll try to stay the course. Thanks for the support!

Saturday night she did sleep in the bed with me. I slept on the edge facing away from her. She slept on her edge too. Apparently I was snoring because she tapped me in the middle of the night to get me to stop. smile

On Sunday morning, she woke me up by poking me. Then she questioned me for about 30 minutes: Why won't I sign the waiver? Why was I punishing her? Did I just want my pound of flesh? Why was I stopping her from moving on with her life? The same questions over and over.

I told her I thought her conversation from the other night, where she told me she was having doubts, was manipulative. She didn't see how it was. She said she was just sharing information and didn't mean to give me hope of something else.

At one point she asked me, "If you want to be married to me, why are you treating me like this?" I thought for a moment and said "I don't want to be married to you." It was the truth. She responded with "Then why are you dragging this out?" I got up and went into the bathroom. The questioning continued for a few more minutes, until she left the room to get ready for church. A few days ago I had been thinking about going with them, but I just couldn't do it.

She was gone with the boys most of the day, so I spent all of yesterday getting together my documentation for my L. What an emotional nightmare that was, looking at old receipts and bills, thinking back to when things were better between us, and just thinking about the past and what we've lost. I'd occasionally have to excuse myself to the bedroom to punch the cr@p out of the bed.

When they got back, I was walking around the house with a notepad compiling my inventory. STBXW was bothered by this and asking me if I was writing down every little thing. I told her my lawyer was asking for details. She acted hurt and said, "Well, if that's the way it's going to be, I might as well just take my clothes and go. You can keep the rest."

Last night, she gathered her few things from the MBR and went back to her room. On the way out she said good night, and I said it back to her. I slept alone again. Not sure if this will last.

I realize that my STBXW getting angry still upsets me. I know I need to not care what she thinks. But seeing her upset still gets to me, even if it's completely out of my hands, and even if her expectations are nowhere near reality. I've spent 21 years with her, so it's a hard bond to break.

I'm just feeling real down right now. (Grab your party hats. It's pity party time!) As much as I've tried to GAL and grow as a person, I feel like everything I've worked for has been a waste. I've let my kids down. I'm mad at myself for not seeing the warning signs more clearly early in our MR. I'm mad at myself for marrying her.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Originally Posted By: Holding
I'm just feeling real down right now. (Grab your party hats. It's pity party time!) As much as I've tried to GAL and grow as a person, I feel like everything I've worked for has been a waste. I've let my kids down. I'm mad at myself for not seeing the warning signs more clearly early in our MR. I'm mad at myself for marrying her.


Holding,

Here's a big hug for you (no kissing please)...

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Holding}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

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Thanks Doodler.

One thing I didn't mention was we had a brief conversation Saturday night before we slept in the bed together. I asked STBXW what the point of the whole "doubt" conversation was from a few days before. She said she was trying to open up to me, to get me to share my feelings with her. One of her common complaints is that I never share my feelings. (Trust me, I tried after BD and she wanted nothing to do with it.)

I debated how to respond for a moment. Then I said, "You want to know what I'm feeling? This is the worst thing I've ever had to go through in my entire life." Of course, she then turned the focus back on herself, and accused me of emotionally abusing her during the M. We went back and forth about whether what I did was actual emotional abuse, and I refused to accept that it was. My IC said I should not accept that label of emotional abuse if I don't agree with it. I know, not really a great way to validate her feelings. But I did express my regrets - once again - about all the mistakes I made in the M. In the end, I guess she achieved her goal - to get some emotion out of me.

Anyway, not sure that really matters. Just felt the need to share this.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

You're in that phase where, no matter what you do, you're always wrong. I remember those days. Heads I win, tales you lose. I think the best approach to that is to avoid playing the game.

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Originally Posted By: doodler
Heads I win, tales you lose.


It should be "...tails you lose." smile

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Holding,

Very sorry for what you’re going through—you’re in the thick of it now. One thing I’ll suggest that may serve you well.

There are things people do and say, and then there is the meaning we attach to those things.

For instance your wife opened up to you about her doubts. That’s a fact.

After what happened next you told yourself the story that she was manipulating you and then got angry about that.

Maybe she was manipulating you, and maybe she was just being earnest and sharing a rare authentic moment.

There is no way to know the reality of the situation—she may not even know, but you will be much better served in your life by assuming that she was being authentic or by assuming nothing at all and just taking the incident at face value.

There is what happens in life, and then there is what we tell ourselves it means. The first is a fact, the second a fabrication. If we fabricate negative meanings we poison ourselves.

Your wife can be mean and openly nasty and aggressive—by all means be upset about that, but spare yourself the pain of getting angry at meanings you’ve attached to life’s events, it hurts you more than anybody else.

Stay strong, you’ll make it!

My ExW was in a huge hurry to move out. She went out looking at condos on a Saturday morning and by Sunday afternoon had signed a P&S. Unfortunately she didn’t understand that the condo fees were monthly vs annually. Now she’s lived there for three years and can’t afford it, and has had it on the market for 14 months. No one will buy it because the fees are so high. Karma will take care of your W, don’t worry.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Originally Posted By: Accuray
There is what happens in life, and then there is what we tell ourselves it means. The first is a fact, the second a fabrication. If we fabricate negative meanings we poison ourselves.


Thanks for the reality check, Acc. I really needed to hear this.

I suppose me trying to interpret her actions is a form of mind reading. It's hard to shake the feeling of being manipulated, but at least now I'm aware of the fabrication.

I guess there's no harm in seeing this whole thing at face value. She was confused (she actually referred to it the other day as a lapse in judgement, FWIW). But the next day she was back on her path to pursue the D. She simply flip-flopped. It wasn't the first time.

I guess I should go easy on myself for seeing it as a sign she might be having second thoughts. I have made mistakes, and I will continue to make them.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Originally Posted By: Holding
I have made mistakes, and I will continue to make them.


Holding,

I made every mistake possible, but there's one thing I can tell you with absolute certainty, I'm no longer a rotten husband.

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Holding,

They are not mistakes. Take the information you learned from those scenarios and apply it for the next time. We can only go off what we know and try. We are testing certain encounters as well. It didn't go well, but now you know, for the next encounter that happens. You can damp your expectations and take what she is telling you at face value for the moment.

Our spouses will be roller coasters. The will be up and down, decided and undecided from day to day. We have to be the ones that stand firm on what we want and need for ourselves. There is only uncertainty with our S. We don't have a clue on the outcome either. So for us as LBS, the one thing we can be certain of is becoming better, because that's all we can control. It's hard to become happy in these Sitchs but it's not impossible. But redefining the impossible has been happening since the beginning of time.

It's no more you play off of her feelings, start playing off of your feelings only, detach. Happiness bequeath happiness, joy bequeaths joy, and positive bequeaths positive.

Don't become happy, joyful, or positive for nobody but Holding. I know you can do it.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Thanks Doodler and JoeJoe. I am trying to learn from what I've done wrong - it's tempting to beat myself up over it (that's the old me), but I know that's not productive.

Last night I had another session with my IC. I realized I've seen her 17 times since the beginning of May. Wow.

Anyway, I know it's her job to empathize with me, but her jaw dropped at least twice as I told her about all the craziness I've dealt with in the last week. I asked her about the issue of "fabrication" that Acc brought up. She agreed that I do need to make sure I'm not telling myself stories about things instead of examining what's really happening. But she did say there were several examples of STBXW blatantly trying to bully me and harass me. She said she's proud of me for not giving in to STBXW.

Last night STBXW was working on her computer, doing her own household inventory I think, and she put on some Christian music. I'm thinking "really?" I mean, I guess she needs her own comfort through this whole process, and everyone wants to see themselves as the "right" party.

It makes me think about her side of things. I know we mostly think of things from the POV of the LBS (with the exception of Sandi's comments). It's dangerous to let your mind wander into that dark place where the WAS lives. There's nothing but pain there. But it's hard not to wonder what she's going through. I do feel sorry that she's been hurt so much that she feels she needs to do this.

What's the difference between mind reading and empathy?


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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I've done this as well and I think it's not really all that good, even though sometimes I'd REALLY want to know what the WAS is thinking. Especially with the contact and how amicable she is towards me, how she laughs etc. It just seems odd to me because why couldn't we try to work on it then?

I'd say the difference is that with mind reading you obsess about it and invent your own outcomes (e.g. how I'd like to think why she is so friendly towards me after all this), with empathy you are genuinely feeling bad for her (e.g. just like you said there, that you're sorry she had to go through it and felt she had to do this).


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I completed my documents and inventory for my L yesterday and submitted them. It felt good to be done, but so sad that our M has come to this. At times I still wish I could go back to that cr@ppy old M, instead of this uncertain future. I know that's the fear of change. That old M will never be back, no matter what happens in the future. So for now, mediation is next.

A few days ago I pulled out my wedding ring to possibly have it appraised. I decided to try it on. It felt familiar, but it looked strange on my hand. The indentation where it used to sit on my finger is slowly disappearing. I'm not sure if it'll ever completely go away, but for me it's just another sign that I'm moving on.

Last night I think STBXW was trying to get under my skin. She's got a bachelorette party this weekend, and there was a Victoria's Secret bag sitting by the front door all night. You'd think she would put something like that in her room. I never said anything about it.

While S10 and I played the xbox in the living room, she sat in there for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. She was talking about the plans for the bachelorette party, meeting up with everyone, etc. Then she talked to someone else about a D they're going through, and she seemed to be giving this person support, saying things like "Sometimes you just need a good cry", "Just take it a day at a time", and "Can you change the locks". I heard her mention she was going to Divorce Care.

That brought me back to thinking about things from her perspective. It's hard to imagine how she sees me as the bad guy that she needs to escape, but she probably does.

I've lost a lot of emotional momentum this week. My GAL efforts have been lacking lately. I've got the kids this weekend since she'll be off, so I need to find some fun stuff for us to do. I think we all need a little pick-up.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Originally Posted By: Holding
Last night I think STBXW was trying to get under my skin. She's got a bachelorette party this weekend, and there was a Victoria's Secret bag sitting by the front door all night. You'd think she would put something like that in her room. I never said anything about it.


Another missed DB opportunity. You're supposed to sneak out and get the lingerie out of the bag and put it on. Then you take a picture of yourself wearing whatever was in the bag. Put the stuff back in the bag. Then, while your wife is at the party, send her the picture you took of yourself.

Originally Posted By: Holding
I've lost a lot of emotional momentum this week. My GAL efforts have been lacking lately. I've got the kids this weekend since she'll be off, so I need to find some fun stuff for us to do. I think we all need a little pick-up.


It's a great time of year to go camping and enjoy the outdoors with your sons.

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Originally Posted By: doodler
Another missed DB opportunity. You're supposed to sneak out and get the lingerie out of the bag and put it on. Then you take a picture of yourself wearing whatever was in the bag. Put the stuff back in the bag. Then, while your wife is at the party, send her the picture you took of yourself.


Dude, I needed that laugh. Thanks!


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

I think it's perfectly find to ask your wife to leave the room if you feel she is being somewhat disrespectful while talking on the phone around you and your kids. But if it really don't bother you just ignore it.

I would of picked up the bag and looked in it. I could of been some lotion. She really might be trying to get a reaction out of you. Would you have asked before BD what was in the bag? IMO becoming confident is getting back to who your were with better tools to deal with problems that arise in our lives. If you would of asked before, I don't see a problem with asking now. You could have said, "what's in the bag?". If she says something like, "none of your business", you shrug your shoulders and walk off. If she says, "why?", you say just curious. If she tells you, then great, you say, "nice." And then walk off. All three of those scenarios, you were calm cool and weren't pushy.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Originally Posted By: doodler

Another missed DB opportunity. You're supposed to sneak out and get the lingerie out of the bag and put it on your dog. Then you take a picture of yourself dog wearing whatever was in the bag. Put the stuff back in the bag. Then, while your wife is at the party, send her the picture you took of yourself dog.


That's the right intent, but I made a few corrections to it that I feel would be even more appropriate grin


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: doodler

Another missed DB opportunity. You're supposed to sneak out and get the lingerie out of the bag and put it on your dog. Then you take a picture of yourself dog wearing whatever was in the bag. Put the stuff back in the bag. Then, while your wife is at the party, send her the picture you took of yourself dog.


That's the right intent, but I made a few corrections to it that I feel would be even more appropriate grin


Everyone knows Sandi's unwritten rule #38 is, "Don't put lingerie on dogs." I mean really, that's just weird.

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If only I had a do. Though there is a stray cat that hangs around the house on occasion. 😁


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
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Y'all are HILARIOUS! I needed a good laugh and Doodler, you never fail to deliver. Now you've turned it into a mini-forum. Keep it up. Laughing helps us all!!!


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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Thanks again for the laughter.

JoeJoe, I agree that I need to just be myself and stop trying to strategize every interaction. I was never very curious about her purchases in the past. It's possible that leaving the bag out was not intentional on her part. I do suspect it was designed to get a reaction from me, but that's me "fabricating" again (as Acc would say).

(I think I feel another long post coming on)

I had a great Saturday - STBXW was gone. I got my car back with the transmission fixed! I got S14 to go through his clothes and put aside what no longer fit. Then I took him and S10 to the mall, where we bought S14 new school clothes, and S10 got something from the Lego store. On the way home we stopped and got pizza, and S14 entertained us with stories about memes. Things were really good without STBXW around.

On Sunday, I woke up in a down mood, because I knew STBXW would be coming back. Plus I've been having crazy dreams lately - anytime STBXW shows up in one, I seem to wake up. S14 didn't want to go to church, so I took S10. When we got back, I helped him with a school project.

Part of the project was selecting a sentence that represented a theme from a particular story. The first sentence he selected was "Life can suddenly change." When he saw that one, he said "That's a good one for me." I asked him why, and he said he had a good normal life, and now he's losing his house and his parents are getting divorced. I tried to hold my tears, but they started to come fast and I had to go to my room. I had another session bawling on the closet floor.

As I've been thinking more about STBXW's perspective in all this, it's made me feel more responsible for my part in the downfall of my M. And so I feel partly responsible for this h3ll we're going through. I know I shouldn't, but part of me still feels like a failure.

I heard STBXW come home, so I pulled my sh1t together. I helped S10 finish his project, and then I cut the grass. After a while she took the boys to her brother's house for a BBQ. When I was done with the grass, I decided to get myself some "GAL dinner". So I got dressed up, headed out to a restaurant, and got myself a good steak and a beer. Got home and made lunches for the boys for school.

On Monday I was off from work, so it was a good day for IC. I told my IC how I've been having a lot doubts lately about whether I've done the right thing. I also wonder if STBXW has been trying to make me jealous in various ways - leaving out the Victoria's Secret bag, telling me guys were hitting on her on Facebook, and saying some guy tripped over a grate checking her out. It hasn't made me jealous, but it could be an interesting pattern. I think my STBXW wanted me to "fight" for the M more. Everyone tells me I did fight for it, but I guess I'm just second-guessing myself. Too much mind reading.

IC reminded me that I have power in this sitch, and maybe I should consider initiating a convo with STBXW. Maybe I could apologize for the things I've done wrong. Not for her, but for me to feel like I've said my piece. But IC stressed that I should take several days and think long and hard about whether I really wanted to do that. Does anyone think that would be a good idea?

I saw a movie at the theater by myself yesterday. Second time I've done that since BD. But this time I felt comfortable by myself, instead of self conscious.

I also had Divorce Care yesterday. I told the group that I really liked the more open conversation we'd had last week, and I hoped we'd be able to do more of that. Everyone seemed to agree, so we'll see how that goes. One challenge is that different people seem to come and go from week to week.

Last night, S10 started thinking about Halloween and asked me and STBXW who would take him trick or treating. I told him I didn't know since we hadn't talked about it. Then she said she'd take him and I'd be welcome to join them. He looked at me and said, "Daddy, please come." I told him I'd think about it. I am a little resentful that STBXW just "claimed" it and made me into a tag-along. I think I need to address this with her.

Later, STBXW asked me why I always seem to go to my room when she's around. I know I should have directly answered, but I said I wasn't doing it as much as I used to, and I told her she did the same thing. She said she's usually getting ready for the next day. Then she added that she didn't feel comfortable in her own house. I said I understood that feeling.

Sometimes I just want to grab STBXW by the shoulders and scream: "ARE YOU STILL IN THERE? WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? HOW CAN YOU THROW OUR FAMILY AWAY?"

The weekends are just so tumultuous for me. And I realize I'm still letting STBXW have too much headspace. I think I need to switch up my GAL activities. Maybe I need to look into that skydiving solo class.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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I guess that last one was too long, and maybe too much of a downer wink

Originally Posted By: Holding
IC reminded me that I have power in this sitch, and maybe I should consider initiating a convo with STBXW. Maybe I could apologize for the things I've done wrong. Not for her, but for me to feel like I've said my piece. But IC stressed that I should take several days and think long and hard about whether I really wanted to do that. Does anyone think that would be a good idea?


Any thoughts on this?

All 2x4s welcome.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

I think your wife would use the apology against you. You'd be providing her with supporting evidence of her accusations and her need to divorce you.

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And furthermore...

You need to get out and kick @ss. You seem kind of needy and mopey lately. Fix that today. I'm not even attracted to you so how do you expect your wife to be attracted to you?

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Holding,

It seems you are running from her. Why? It's your house. If you want to be somewhere be there. To me it shows a lot of insecurity when you leave a room everytime your W shows up. You have to show more confidence. Stop running and become the man of the house. Stop worrying about her reaction to whatever you do. I know it's hard to be happy around her, but you have to do this for your own sake. Have you ever experienced your W, when she saw you truly happy? If not, then doing something different is part of DB.

Also, your wife asked you why you leave everytime she enters the room. Maybe she wants to see you take charge. Try taking charge. You were mad because your wife took charge for Halloween, stop saying I don't know, and say I will do it. Take charge. Stop waiting on what you wife will do, and you just do it.

You are doing a good job with GAL.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Originally Posted By: doodler
I'm not even attracted to you so how do you expect your wife to be attracted to you?


That cuts deep man. I thought we had something special. But now I'll have to build my awesome life without you. See ya! wink

But seriously, I know I've been in a dark place lately. I don't know why this is all hitting me so hard again. I think STBXW opening up to me about her doubts made me reconsider my approach. I've read in some other sitches that sadness seems to strike around this time - for me 5.5 months after BD. But you're right - I need to pick myself back up and find my strength again.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
It seems you are running from her. Why? It's your house. If you want to be somewhere be there. To me it shows a lot of insecurity when you leave a room everytime your W shows up. You have to show more confidence. Stop running and become the man of the house. Stop worrying about her reaction to whatever you do.


To be fair, I don't scamper off every time she's in the room. But I admit I do need to be more confident. I actually did a pretty good job last night. S14 had a school concert and I sat with her and S10 (I sat next to S10). At home I was interacting with the kids and laughing, and I must have been in the same room with her for at least 45 minutes.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
I know it's hard to be happy around her, but you have to do this for your own sake. Have you ever experienced your W, when she saw you truly happy? If not, then doing something different is part of DB.


When I'm truly happy, she just looks at me like she's not sure who I am. TBH, I haven't been truly happy for a while, but I think I've been doing a good job of acting "as if". Going from "as if" to the real thing is taking some time though.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Also, your wife asked you why you leave everytime she enters the room. Maybe she wants to see you take charge. Try taking charge. You were mad because your wife took charge for Halloween, stop saying I don't know, and say I will do it. Take charge. Stop waiting on what you wife will do, and you just do it.


Fair point. I do think she used to want me to take charge, since I was the typical easy-going NG the entire M. But now she wants me to roll over in the D. So I realize I need to take charge for my own sake at this point. I do find myself strategizing about the D a lot, which causes me to think more about things and be less decisive on the spot.

Thanks for the tough love, guys.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

I want to keep using your real name, LOL. But you can do this. I have faith in you. I keep my desires on a piece of paper in my wallet. I pull it out when I feel down. Everytime I walk in my house, I ensure i'm not in a sh$tty mood. I let her be, but I won't let her keep me down. I keep pushing forward. I has been hard. A few days, I have let her mood affect me, but I jump back on my horse, regroup and continue down my trail. Your W will notice and wonder, where you are going, and how are you getting there. I listen to jazz music as I drive home, I work 45 mins away from home, so a lot of time to think and focus on the good stuff. I go back and forth with my thoughts, but I force myself to feed the good wolf.

Let's feed the good wolf together. If you are having a hard day, you can call me anytime. I hear to listen and help provide encouragement. I also have my go to friends that I call or text all times of the day and night to vent to.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Holding.....cool, confident, calm, and confident. There is no reason why you should feel any different. Don't let your W impact your emotions and don't scurry from room to room. It is normal to feel scared and to lose confidence when you have been rejected. Find your value as a man and find your confidence within. Once you do that you will realize that you don't need a woman to validate you.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Let's feed the good wolf together.


Um yeah, maybe you two should get a room. whistle

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Doodler, you're no longer invited. To think I trusted you wink


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Holding,

Sorry! frown I was jealous; you get all the attention.

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Doodler,

Please stay out of intimate moment. And Holding I only stay at 5 star resorts.

Also doodler, I need you to split that attention 50/50.


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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Holding,

You should apologize to your STBX if you want to -- but only do it once. If you've done it already don't do it again. The key with an apology is that (1) there can't be any "buts" and (2) there can be no expectation of reciprocation. i.e. "here's what I've done wrong and I'm sorry for that" -- the end.

ONLY do that if it will bring you some closure or some peace. Most likely it will not, and you'll want to make another overture because you didn't get the resolution you were expecting.

Originally Posted By: holding
As I've been thinking more about STBXW's perspective in all this, it's made me feel more responsible for my part in the downfall of my M. And so I feel partly responsible for this h3ll we're going through. I know I shouldn't, but part of me still feels like a failure.


It's totally normal for the LBS to cycle from feeling totally victimized to feeling totally responsible and all points in between. Be gentle with yourself, this is just part of the process and it comes and goes.

I used to go through waves of despair that would just hit me out of nowhere. My wise IC said that over time they would come less frequently, they wouldn't last as long when they did come, but that the very last thing to go would be the intensity, and she was right.

You will heal from all of this and you will be happy and feel great again, trust me.

One very important thing to think about is that there are things you can control, and things you can't. You can't control what STBX does, and you can't change what has already happened between you.

The things you cannot control or change you need to surrender to. That is not as easy as it sounds, because it can be very frustrating and you will hold onto the notion that you can exert control over things that effect you.

I used to visualize literally letting go of a set of handlebars and it brought be great relief as I trained myself to do that. If you're upset about your contribution to what happened to your marriage, acknowledge it, vow not to repeat it, and then let go of it. There's no value in carrying that around.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Thanks JoeJoe and Joseph!

JoeJoe, I'll probably take you up on that call. I have some friends and family I lean on in hard times, but I've discovered your support group can never be too big!

Joseph, you're right that my confidence has suffered. TBH, it was probably gone long before BD. So I have a lot of work to do getting it back.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Acc, thanks for stopping by.

I have already apologized, about a week after BD in fact. At the time I offered it, I was in a much different place, but I did offer it sincerely and with no expectations of any reciprocation. So I guess there's no need to revisit the apology. Case closed!

The insight on despair - good to know. I don't like the intensity though, that's actually the worst part. I guess I'll have to learn to live with it for the time being.

Originally Posted By: Accuray
You will heal from all of this and you will be happy and feel great again, trust me.


Thanks


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Went out with a friend last night for dinner and we sat at the bar. He helped me work through some emotions about a legal issue I'm struggling with - it pretty much requires me to decide if I'm 100% done with this M or not. I don't want to get into the legal side of things here, but I view this as a real point of no return for the M. Still haven't made up my mind.

Anyway, as we were talking we got into a conversation with two women sitting at the bar next to us. I was attracted to one of them. It turns out she's actually from my hometown and grew up not too far from me. I noticed she wasn't wearing a wedding ring. She even seemed to put her hand into positions so that I might notice (her left hand was on the opposite side from us). We made eye contact a few times. They were flight attendants and actually made a comment about my friend and me flying somewhere with them.

This did make me realize I just don't feel right doing something like that until I'm done with the D. But there is a small part of me that says, "Hey doofus, why didn't you get her number?"

On the drive home I was all smiles for myself. I think I'm starting to get my mojo back wink


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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Quote:
Anyway, as we were talking we got into a conversation with two women sitting at the bar next to us. I was attracted to one of them. It turns out she's actually from my hometown and grew up not too far from me. I noticed she wasn't wearing a wedding ring. She even seemed to put her hand into positions so that I might notice (her left hand was on the opposite side from us). We made eye contact a few times.


^^^^^ is where it starts, good for you!! Getting your confidence back and realizing your value as a man will help you detach more than you know. Your value comes within and is not determined by whether or not your W finds you attractive or wants to be married. Keep it up!!

BTW....also good on you for not taking it further. Broken usually attracts broken smile.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Holding,

Great job on holding a conversation with the opposite sex and enjoying yourself. You did nothing wrong. I hope it keeps you smiling even around your wife.

I'm glad you enjoyed the beer and ........


M:37 W:37
T:11 M:10
S17, S13, S10, S4
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
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I think getting the "feeling" back is key. Not that we ACT on it.

But I do think it's key in starting to heal that enormous blow to our self-esteem that we get, just from rejection!

It's like suddenly we realize, HEY, MAYBE IT'S NOT ME! Maybe they just chose a different path or person, but I can still be someone else's FIRST choice.

Hang in there!

Last edited by Cadet; 10/13/17 09:40 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message

M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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Quote:
I know I was not the perfect husband. But I did so much for her. When she was having panic attacks and didn't want everyone else to know, I helped her through them and kept her secret. I helped her get ahead in her career by caring for the kids by myself. I was super frugal when money was tight. I endured years of her snappy comments, coldness, the SSM, and her general sour mood. Why wasn't I the one to leave?


Although there may be some women out there who would give anything to have a H described in the above paragraph, your W is not of them. The more you took care of the mundane jobs of homemaking, child care, and pinching pennies.......the less she was attracted to you. You sheltered her, catered to her, and freed her from wife and motherly duties so she could spend more time focused on advancing on her job.

When this pattern continues, it tells me that that woman should have planned to just have a career, and not bring children into the world that she is not going to be there to raise. It made me angry when she suggested having another child, with no intentions of being there to care for it. Your comments actually reminded me of women who have too much burden on their shoulders and the man (who spends his time on the job) decides he wants to enlarge his family......without any consideration to the stress it will add to her. In this case, the roles have been reversed. But your answer sounded as if you were panicking at the thought of having another child (and I don't blame you)...b\c you were logically seeing how you would not have any help from the mother. She'd have the baby and hand it over to you. And her reason for wanting another child was so she could have a girl? I don't get why these women want kids when they don't want to take care of them.

Anyway, I had intended to say that there have been many H's with a story just like you have shared. A W who is selfish, has a sour disposition, has a SSM, says just enough to show disrespect for her H, and leaves the care of the children and housework to the H. I don't know why, but these women lose respect for the H, and the attraction is gone. And, the more he tries to keep the home fires going, and be there to help her anyway possible, and make excuses for her bad attitude\moods, the less attraction she has for him.

If you read JRuss story, you may recognize you and your W. I was not able to help him, and I offended him in my attempt to get him to "toughen up" with his W. His response to me made me realize I had hit some tender spots.....or maybe it was bad timing, IDK.

I said all of that to say this....... if your W has always been on the "spoiled" side....where you, her parents, or someone catered to making her happier....only it never lasted or it wasn't enough? I would say the problem is in her. If she has had a sense of entitlement most (or maybe all) the time you've known her......then the problem is in her. If her having a bad attitude, giving the silent treatment or cold shoulder is pretty normal in the MR........then I think the problem is in her. It is rare to see this type of woman change as long as her H and parents cater to her. I believe she can change, but it would be very difficult for this H....after all this time has passed....to "tame the shrew", so to speak. If it had began at the first start of the relationship......it would have been easier. But now, IDK.

I do not agree with your C about apologizing to your W! It would only add to her contempt for you. I think your C is just at a loss to tell you what to do about your MR.

It's very telling when you describe how much better you feel when the W is not there. I have to wonder why you want to continue living with someone who doesn't appreciate you. And I want you to know this, the SSM will not get better unless she has a major overhaul in her heart. She uses you and is not attracted to you. If you can't figure out why......then don't expect her to change for the better.

JRuss once said I had not given him constructive advice in a post I sent, which is correct. We can't always give advice in every post. But hopefully, I've given you something to think about. And, if I am completely wrong about your W, please tell me b\c I really want to know.

((Hugs))


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks for stopping by, Sandi! I'll respond in my new thread.

New thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2765897&page=1

Cadet, please lock this one up.


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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