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Originally Posted By: 25
some of what I'm really asking is an almost universal DB question.

Did our WAS change and why? OR were they always this way and we did not see it, or they hid it well enough?

Why did WE not see it sooner, or address it, and thus, what can we do to avoid this event happening in our next r?


Sorry for what you're going through 25. I think the answer to your question is "yes"

Our WAS do change, part of it is just normal life evolution. Part of it is the constant cycle of missed communications, minor annoyances, building resentments, etc. that just erode attachment over time and make people less tolerant.

On the other hand, its also true that they were always this way and we either didn't see it, or convinced ourselves that it wasn't as bad as it was, or it was temporary, or otherwise made excuses for it, or worse yet it was always that way and we needed it to be.

One of the best models of relationships I read said that everyone, as children, is "abused" in one way or another, meaning that you just don't have all your emotional needs met, in some ways worse than others.

This particular type of neglect or abuse is something that we learn to cope with, often convince ourselves that its what we deserve, and we become comfortable in that place of coping.

Therefore, we tend to seek partners who put us into our comfortable place, because that's what we know we can cope with and survive.

If you grow up believing you're not good enough, and you start dating someone who dotes on you and tells you that you are good enough every day, you're often just not attracted to that person, or are bored by the relationship.

If, on the other hand, you meet someone who treats you like you're not quite good enough, that's a challenge to you to prove that you are, and it's the comfortable place you're used to living in. Therefore that's where you gravitate.

In terms of your next relationship, certain patterns WILL repeat, because you're the constant, but everything is on a spectrum. Someone could be a 10 on the narcissism scale, or they could be a 3. The side effects of the 3 are going to be far less than the 10, and far more livable. That's the difference, is that the next time around you won't tolerate the extremes.

Secondly, and I think this is important, you ask why we did not address it.

"Addressing it" in a relationship can mean blowing things up to the point of giving and ultimatum and being willing to walk away. Hopefully there's a compromise there, but sometimes there isn't. In first marriages, people are often too scared to make those ultimatums because they fear the unknown of being divorced.

The second time around, you've already been divorced and you know you can survive it, so you're less likely to tolerate things that are not acceptable. You're more likely to make the ultimatum and be willing to walk. That is, in my view, why second marriages are less successful. Not because people who get married the second time around are more flawed, but instead because they are less scared of leaving a relationship that doesn't work for them. Is that a bad thing? I'm not convinced that it is.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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The only blessing about your H being so horrible during the divorce process is that it will cure you of any lingering desire to reconcile. I'm actually grateful that my ex was such a jerk. It finally allowed me to let go, and I wouldn't have him back for any sum of money.

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Originally Posted By: kml
The only blessing about your H being so horrible during the divorce process is that it will cure you of any lingering desire to reconcile. I'm actually grateful that my ex was such a jerk. It finally allowed me to let go, and I wouldn't have him back for any sum of money.



KML, this^^ is true. I think I said somewhere that his behavior has jettisoned my mourning process several leagues ahead.

But yeah, sometimes I miss that arm. I also think what I miss most is being in a marriage (that I thought was good). Being part of a couple and intact family.

Oh well, there are far worse things. And who knows? I may be a part of one again.

I believe wholeheartedly that I'd rather be on my own with the chance of another R or just free,

than be married to h as he is and has been for a few years. I see things differently now and it's not all about consoling myself.

It's with more clarity than I had before. Once my mom died it was more apparent to me that h was on his own path and I could take it or leave it. I really KNEW life was short when I saw that I was next in line for passing on (compared to my mom I mean)

and h was not pleasant or kind to me, the past few years. No I don''t mean he was a 24/7 jerk, but there was an undertone of criticism I NOW see more clearly.

I am now scoffing at myself. Sheesh, I need to let go of my own crap and forgive myself more.

I'm working on it!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Accuray

I will get to your post soon. Lots to think about, but I can say now that the red flags or triggers I have are that '

1) if the man has poor r's with his children. Alienation can happen but it's pretty rare and depends on the situation. I'd flee if there was not a VERY explainable reason for the guy not being close to his kids

2) the way he describes his ex. If there is a lot of character assassination I'd walk.

Even if he's accurate, it's too much drama. And if he's not accurate, then he's a blame shifter.

3) weird with money

4) needing a nurse, not a wife

5) acting OLD. A guy I know and am very comfortable with b/c we once dated and over the years kept in touch. "G" is his name. I like him. But I could never partner up with him b/c he says things like

"At our age..." And I know there's no way that sentence can end in an appealing way.

6) rigid in beliefs so that an issue is black and white (no thanks, had enough of that with H's incessant reading of extreme views and NOT showing any flexibility and being angry at people who disagreed even when done tactfully. That includes me.

I am more comfortable with gray areas in life now, than I was before. H is the opposite.

Yes I'd say he changed in that regard for sure. He also became an atheist

and I guess it showed.

So that is a start, Acc.
\
I don't know that divorce is more frequent BECAUSE we are less afraid of it, so much as we have less invested in it.

In our first marriage - if there are kids and it's long, then we fear walking away from the table and the losses we are leaving behind. It's huge and earth shattering

I also think SOME divorcees are too eager to recommit and be part of a couple and only later realize they have not done the work THEY needed to do.

So they repeat their own errors.

Thanks Acc. I value your feedback. Need to get out of and stay out of the rut. The change of season here is not great for me and I am facing the fact that I really am very affected by sunlight.

ALL of my family & childhood friends need to move west with me!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Quote:
Did our WAS change and why? OR were they always this way and we did not see it, or they hid it well enough?

Why did WE not see it sooner, or address it, and thus, what can we do to avoid this event happening in our next r?


I had a kerfuffle with Mr. Fantastic last night and when a divorced friend called me shortly after on an unrelated matter, I posed this question to her. Her ex is a train wreck if ever there was one and my friend has had a lot to overcome. Her take is this:

Yeah, he was always a mess. But he thought highly enough of his spouse that he was willing to try to hide it and live as though he was the man she thought he was, out of love for her. Until finally it was more effort than he could sustain. So she thanks him for having loved her enough to make the effort, and she thanks him for finally being honest enough to show her that he's the POS he always was.

Now, I don't know if I can subscribe to this for myself. I don't know that Mr. Fantastic ever loved me. Now that I'm with My Guy I'm just seeing too many things missing from my "relationship " with Mr. F to really call it a relationship. But maybe I'm still so angry and I'm being overly harsh. Maybe it will help you, and I hope it does. But it strikes me as a tremendously positive way to acknowledge a painful and ugly experience, so maybe someday I can find my version of that expression of gratitude.

PS, I sell life insurance for a living. There are four parties to a policy: owner, payor, insured, and beneficiary. The insured is not automatically the owner, though he often it's. That's why businesses can put key person insurance on employees. Was your H the owner of the policy? Even though you were the payor? If not, USAA erred.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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Quote:
Yeah, he was always a mess. But he thought highly enough of his spouse that he was willing to try to hide it and live as though he was the man she thought he was, out of love for her. Until finally it was more effort than he could sustain. So she thanks him for having loved her enough to make the effort, and she thanks him for finally being honest enough to show her that he's the POS he always was.


This ^^^^^^^^is awesome and so true!


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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Originally Posted By: Maybell
That's why businesses can put key person insurance on employees.


Maybell,

You're a genius! You're the inventor of OM (or OW) life insurance.

Here's how it works: A husband finds out his wife is having an affair. He gathers all of the evidence (email, text messages, pictures and email). He then insures the OM to the gills; maybe $5 million. Then he tells the OM's wife about the affair and he gives her the evidence and the rendezvous location where they can be caught while doing naughty things. Cha-ching, instant millionaire.

There are a number of other potential scenarios as well. Regardless, OM/OW life insurance could open a new market niche for insurance.

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Doodler, it won't work. LBS doesn't have an insurable interest in the OP. Work it the other way -- insure the cr@p out of the WAS, tell the OP's spouse, and see what happens.

Answer: nothing. Because the LBS will pick-me dance and try to save the marriage. But if the divorce happens the LBS will have at least the possibility of insurance proceeds.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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Maybell,

The dream was so close, but now you've ruined everything. frown

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maybell he was the owner

I'd like to get a policy on him with ME as the owner, obviously.

But per USAA I'd need his cooperation. Since he lied about who paid for it, it strikes me as meaning he justifies lying (even to his L) or he thinks no one will find out and or it won't matter.

Sure was a bad idea if he wanted to strong arm me into settling. I told my L "oops, I don't feel like it now."

Now that he's had a cardiac ablation (which he had after I got the policy) it'll cost far more or not happen at all. idiot.

We were supposed to jointly pay for the Survivor Benefits but now I want him to pay all of it for a # of years to compensate .

Thanks for the info however - if we can find each other in the RL I'd like to learn more.

(( ))


PS I also like the way of reframing your friend did. Whether h really loved me enough to do that, is probable but he also liked seeing himself as a good guy and I gave him that image b/c I sincerely loved and admired who I thought he was.

He's still among the smartest and for sure the hardest working man I've ever known.
my mistake was seeing those traits as meaning he had character long after it should have been clear to me he did not.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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