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Last edited by Cadet; 09/05/17 07:19 AM. Reason: link

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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25, my only advice re: the divorce is try to get as much as you can in present assets - a bird in the hand IS worth two in the bush (or in the murky future).

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Originally Posted By: kml
25, my only advice re: the divorce is try to get as much as you can in present assets - a bird in the hand IS worth two in the bush (or in the murky future).



OH YES I AGREE 100%

Amen. (And in that sense, h plays it well. His war of attrition.)

But at such an enormous personal cost. I cannot bring myself to believe he doesn't care about our kids. I cannot believe that he is indifferent to how they see him. In fact I think the reason he's not in touch is b/c he knows they are unhappy with him. He cannot endure being around people who are not FINE with him. He can claim I brainwashed our 31 y/o son, 28 y/o d and 20 y/o d all he wants.

It's still his refusal to cope with hard emotional situations, that paralyzes him.


BTW, some months ago he told d20, that he "has trouble repairing relationships." Start by showing up...

I think that means he feels entitled to forgiveness without feeling or expressing remorse, and wants maybe one dramatic gesture to solve it all.

I know he told me he was "tired of always apologizing" to our d's for missing 2 years of their schooling, the first time he went to Alaska. (I asked each of them separately if they felt they had hashed things out enough and neither of them recalled him ever saying he was sorry.) Yet I don't think he was consciously lying.

Can you imagine spending your golden years with that? No, me neither. And now I won't have to.

I'm not getting bogged down in that, just smh observing.

I think I'm getting out of my rut. Too many bills to pay with so little income so I'm keeping my lights on, and sending out more resumes and making calls that I hope are not sounding pathetic. Saying I 'have a sense of urgency" in my job hunt and hoping I don't start sounding like an Amway person when I see my friends.

Thanks for the input KML and all.





M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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I agree with kml and I think there's a lot to be said for a clean break settlement. In my D we took our total assets, each took what we 'came in with' and divided the growth 50/50. Having a clear and simple formula seemed to help settle things and then it was just a case of declaration, info exchange and checks to confirm the assets.

What I like now is that my finances are my own and his are his. And whatever he may think about our settlement is up to him and doesn't impact on me. Of course our circumstances are very different to yours - a shortish marriage and no kids together. But there's a lot to be said for a complete severance of all financials with no ongoing joint monetary transactions.

I'm with you on the frugality and I lived like that for about 2 years until things were settled. I'm lucky enough to be financially comfortable now, and I appreciate it all the more for that precarious period of time. Good luck with your job hunt too..

smile xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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hi Sotto,

again, I agree that a lump sum would solve this. I pray it's still there as I'm not old enough to touch it ( h is)

Yes it would "be wrong" of h to grab it and the accounts themselves are not supposed to, but I've seen how ineffective the assumption he will do no wrong, has worked.

I have been one to tell others "well the 401k requires both signatures" and "Take the non paying spouse back to court for contempt"

about 100 times. I used to think the women (usually) were weaklings to let their h's skip out of CS or alimony. I'd say "go back to court. HE CAN'T DO THAT."

And now I see what all the hoopla (great word) is about.

THEY DO IT ANYWAY...so then I have to gin up the funds for another round of court. The adage "possession is 9/10ths of the law" is practically speaking, often true.

I have to borrow from siblings who are appalled that h's antics would work, and thank GOD I'm from a large family.

At this point my kids are so upset and furious at h (not all about me, but I'm sure much of what they feel is based on his mistreating me) THEY would be disappointed if I did not fight h. I mean that. They have said this clearly. Like kind of pushy tbh.

SIDENOTE -


i loved my dad.
But for most of my life the negative feelings I had for my dad, which polluted much of our interacting, was based on how he treated my mom.

This^^^ is not a new thing.

ANYHOW


H has told me & our kids his dad did wrong by h's mom. Which was true. My MIL worked 2 jobs almost the whole time I knew her. And she smoked and retired and 4 years later got lung cancer and died a miserable death. FIL married 4 times and invested well with his master's degree (MIL helped him get). Bought chunks of beautiful land and has 2 stunning homes in Mexico and the pacific NW.

His 4th wife is a widow with money and a lovely heart. Their m has lasted 25 years and she is the reason why.

They have not reached out to me, and I don't think they've reached out to the kids either. This is hurtful. But then, they are not the reaching out types.

BTW, NOTE to LBS's with inlaws...

when my mom died, an ex BIL attended her funeral, and 3 former SILs' (In fact, only one former inlaw was not there & I truly think he would have been, if he'd known she had passed and also, they did not have kids together> maybe that would have factored in as well).

My siblings and I really deeply appreciated their coming, and we saw it as a great sign of affection and respect for my mom.

When my FIL dies, I expect to do the same. Some of my friends think that is so weird, but it's not weird to me. FIL is the last bio grandparent of my kids, and he was in my life longer than my own dad.

ANY THOUGHTS on that? Does it look opportunistic? H would know that it's a "custom" in my family to have all "former family members" there.

BACK TO H,

H is known in our nuclear family, to be bitter about the way his dad treated his mom. And my h NEVER said a word to his dad. They are not a family to work things out, or speak their feelings OR resolve things. I already slapped my forehead about this and when I date again, I would want to know how the man's family worked conflicts out. OR if he follows their lead.

H's family has a overtly unhealthy habit of holding onto their resentments and letting them fester sometimes, beyond recognition. His grandmother, great aunt, both his parents...and him.

That cycle stops with my kids. And it really has. Man, they're almost pushy about "NO SECRETS"...but I'd so rather have that.

I'd bet a lot of money that my FIL has no idea my h feels that way about him. In fact, FIL once discussed his r's with his 2 sons, as "the closest a father can be to his sons."

(WTF? That is Such an over the top comment)

And the kicker is that it is so NOT true, (but FIL is now a multimillionaire and who wants to argue with THAT??)

BACK TO EARTH, my point is that when WAS leave or mistreat the LBS, why are they amazed that their kids see them in a new unflattering light? Do they not care about it,


OR do they avoid looking at it forever, AND OR do they figure out that "LATER" they will fix things.

Or maybe h is banking on his inheritance to ease back into r's with our kids. ( Like his dad did with him. How touching.)

I don't begrudge my kids getting money, FOR SURE

but they are not like h and his brother. They speak up. (Hence the N/C from h, I guess)

If your h smacks you around BUT HE'S NICE TO THE KIDS, the kids won't feel safe around him, it's obvious to us.


Sotto, how long did your untangling of the poop, last? I'm at 11 months from seeing h off and filing for D as of 10/18 I think (thereabouts). I don't care about the forks and spoons, but I am mad at myself for not taking more. I SO underestimated what would matter to h. SMH at myself. I recall telling the kids I did not want to be accused of "taking it all" so I deliberately got about 1/4 of our personal property.

Hard to remember what you don't see in front of you but I do notice a few things per month that I wish I still had. Which is totally tolerable.

When I can feel financially safe, I'll jettison out of this funk. Sounds material and it is. I want security and freaking deserve it.

Plus, I'm told repeatedly that h wants to finalize things as do I.

SIDENOTE _my lawyer tells me what h's lawyer tells her, that h told him. Like how "H hates her guts". Aside from being incredibly offensive and hurtful, what's the point of sharing that with my L and what is HER point in telling me??

It's way too much info
Am I the only lawyer who keeps her client's remarks to herself?

I suppose it could be some form of aggressive strategy to intimidate.

But it just hurts my feelings, AND OR angers me AND OR motivates me more towards litigation.
WTF?



Once it is over, H can openly work (and stop pretending he's "retired") and gobble up the kibbles from OW and his salary and partnership, and fishing and hunting and enjoying the "Brisk, NOT cold!" winters on the tundra.

And I can zoom forward. I really believe 90% of my present funk, (which is not really 24/7), is about money fears. So I want/need to solve those.

Okay, rambling. Thanks for the feedback.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
Likes: 1
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some of what I'm really asking is an almost universal DB question.

Did our WAS change and why? OR were they always this way and we did not see it, or they hid it well enough?

Why did WE not see it sooner, or address it, and thus, what can we do to avoid this event happening in our next r?

As for reconciliations, they do happen. Careful thorough piecing is the only way for it to work IF it can.

I read an interesting anecdote/metaphorical story the other day about recon.

I see us as having big internal "Divorce BOXes" with all the aspects of it inside. There are many angles and mixed feelings, and conflicting hopes and of course our deep mourning and fears.

Some of mine is focussed on wondering about h. We were together so long. I "wonder" about a recon (insane as that is, when I'm fully honest there is residue of hope in one area of the box. I was married longer than not. I tend to forgive myself for this but I don't speak of it to others. They will see it as me being weak or delusional.

A huge underlying piece is that I am sad b/c I see no way for it to ever occur. That is a first for me.

I hope but doubt we can be friends some day, which is a truly sucktacular aspect to this situation b/c a long term marriage like ours, is ending in such an ugly way. The anecdotal metaphor - (And you know how I love my metaphors!) is this:

Let’s say I lost my arm in a combine harvester. Once fed through the thresher, there wasn’t much arm left. Just some ragged bone and sinew, and a loss of blood that nearly killed me. But hey, I survived. I miss my arm deeply. It was a good arm. I’m human.

Oh, I forgot to mention, it wasn’t a farming accident. Um, my ex shoved my arm through a combine harvester.

So I don’t have a relationship anymore. That arm is GONE. I'm having lots of phantom limb pains. There is no loving h. There is a bloody stump. I am missing what doesn’t exist. I don’t get my whole arm back, sorry.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Posts: 1,979
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Is it the optimistic part or the pessimistic part, that 1% of you that has some distorted hope that there could be a reconciliation. I wonder that about myself too.

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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
There is a bloody stump. I am missing what doesn’t exist. I don’t get my whole arm back, sorry.


Have you considered a prosthetic?

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Hi 25, the D was finalised almost 2 years after we S and about 9 months after XH filed. I was a pretty prompt responder and my L was good too. Everything was done via email. We D'd collaboratively (my suggestion.) But I am in the UK, so it's probably quite different.

XH was pretty cooperative actually. He started off 'offering' very little, but I think it helped once he got a L (once he knew I intended to work through one - it wouldn't have been his choice. His choice would have been - lets do this in a friendly way and you'll get very little.)

I had to smile though - his (London, Mayfair) L did me a big favour as she told him a contested D might cost him over £60k in legal fees and I think he was running pretty scared of that. (Really, I'd like to shake her hand for that one grin)

In the end my fees came to around £4K I think. I'm happy with the outcome. I certainly didn't want to 'fund' their shiny new life to the detriment of my comfort, given all circumstances. He may not feel that happy, but he's never said as such. I have made provision for SS in my will and so some assets will ultimately pass to him, which I feel is fair.

Thinking about it, I came away with roughly double what was originally offered. And all I held out for was - we do this using the normal formula that applies in these circumstances. What we ended up with after due process was a simple, single page spreadsheet, with key assets listed and our proposed division. That was the document we agreed on. Anyway, 9 months was the timescale for the actual D process, but I think selling our marital home took a year - that went on a bit longer...

Hope this helps anyway.... smile Xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Did our WAS change and why? OR were they always this way and we did not see it, or they hid it well enough?

Why did WE not see it sooner, or address it, and thus, what can we do to avoid this event happening in our next r?


25.....IMO it was always in there and it was like lava in a volcano waiting to erupt. I think some or more obvious than others but looking back at my W all the signs where there that this would happen. I just never thought her overall unhappiness would manifest itself on me.

I also don't think you could have done anything different to stop it from happening (My friends often tell me she could have been married to Brad Pitt and she would have done the same thing). I know we can all be better people (including our spouses) but there are varying degrees of what each person needs to work on. Some are hard issues while some are soft issues and no one is a perfect person. The reality is each person handles situations differently where some spouses would communicate their issues (and want to work on the marriage) others just choose to have A's and walk away.

I have not been going at this as long as a lot of others but those are my thoughts.

Your last question about how we can avoid this in the future is a tough one because there are no guarantees. Personally before I get serious with another women I will be more perceptive to their upbringing, family values, why their previous relationships failed, are they generally happy, things like that I will vet a lot more due to the knowledge I gained from this board. Still at the end of the day their are no guarantees.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
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