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So for a quick recap




Starting 6th month of seperation.
W has been making small steps with the kids and me.
She still says she is empty inside and nothing brings her much Joy.

No more talk of devorce or blaming me for everything. What worries me is she seems to be shouldering a lot of blame on herself now.

Im continuing with GAL but i miss her like crazy..

Question

How do you link first thread?


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Sandi

So definitly to soon on the one on one activities. My W said she enjoyed our outing but...

She still is not talking or seeking any help. She mentions depression but will not make any moves toward help.

With w wanting to be part of family activities and there being no outward signs of her deceloping other relationships. I say this because she seems to be spending a great amount of her time alone sleeping long hours or just alone sitting reading.

Question is how much do i detach?

Do i continue to do family activities and play it cool when she leaves?

Or do i tell her you wanted to seperate from me and it seems the kids so stay away until you can figure out what the issue is!!

W does tell the kids and me she feels we are moving in the right direction but when question get pointed she gos quiet and just says I DONT KNOW HOW I FEEL,


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Can't seem to let the last convsrsation with w go. She recognizes that she is spending to much time alone and is empty inside but thinks she will work through it.

I dont seem to be the total resson for all her issues anymore but she does still have a big trust issue.

The problem is the things im being accused of are not true. We always had a very open and truthful relationship now she looks at everything like its a lie.

I know i need to get distance but i feel like i also need to stick up for myself and set the record straight.

I did come clean about anything i though would be a cause for troubles in our marriage and have continued to improve my relationship with kids and of course GAL.

So if someone leaves but does not proceed past moving out. Still has very little clothes. Works but no social life to speak of continues with family activities and but thinks kids dont want to be around her and second guesses everything.

I guess my question is what do i have a WAW, WW or MLC?

And how do i proceed i know with all my heart she needs help!!!!


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Question

With my w being depressed or maybe a hormonal issue. Is the dreaded friend zone an issue?

With us having contact multiple times a week I don it have the time to
Make her miss me but she is seeing changes be it around me the house myself personally and even the kids.

Starting to spin again so overthinking it right now. Time to sit down and read DR again.


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When I mention depression and hormonal issues I list them after our marriage issues

The fact that I myself checked out of marriage for a time. My porn viewing during that time something I do not do anymore. Our arguments which literally can be counted and discussed in depth!!!

I know I screwed up but at know point have we discussed getting help for
The marriage it just seems so weird. A switch was flipped my wife shut down and my marriage along with it.

My kids feel left behind also, my son seems to
Be dealing better then my daughter the both are helping me and we have had long talks. I even offered to leave and have there mom come home.

Both my kids hugged me at that point and I quote. "No dad your doing the right thing we just need to help Mom get better".

Right now that is the only reason I'm even able to move forward everyday..

Did I say I'm not the type of guy who shares the fact I'm typing this surprise me. Time
To GAL


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
Question is how much do i detach?


Fully and completely. I can't seem to find that old livestrong link on detachment. Can anyone post it?

Quote:
Do i continue to do family activities and play it cool when she leaves?

You should not base your family activities on if she is or isn't there, or when she does or doesn't leave.

Quote:
W does tell the kids and me she feels we are moving in the right direction but when question get pointed she gos quiet and just says I DONT KNOW HOW I FEEL,


Then stop questioning her, that is turning the screws and creating more pressure on her.

Originally Posted By: Nrthman
Can't seem to let the last convsrsation with w go. She recognizes that she is spending to much time alone and is empty inside but thinks she will work through it.

That is for her to resolve.

Quote:
I dont seem to be the total resson for all her issues anymore but she does still have a big trust issue.

Yep, you got the blame because you were the one standing next to her, now that there has been some space, and her issues are not resolved.... she *might* see that she needs to do some work on her.

Quote:
The problem is the things im being accused of are not true. We always had a very open and truthful relationship now she looks at everything like its a lie.
Like what?

Quote:
I know i need to get distance but i feel like i also need to stick up for myself and set the record straight.
Nope, that is your pride messing with your mind. No need to replay any tapes to "set the record straight" just keep moving forward. In fact, try to see some of her perspective, if there is a grain of truth in in, then validate. If its totalls wrong and not true, use terms like: "I am sorry I disappointed you, or I made you feel that way"

Quote:
I guess my question is what do i have a WAW, WW or MLC?

Right now, it still doesn't matter. Stop focusing on fixing her. Continue to fix yourself.

Quote:
And how do i proceed i know with all my heart she needs help!!!!

That is the detachment part, you need to do it in a kind loving way.

Originally Posted By: Nrthman
When I mention depression and hormonal issues I list them after our marriage issues

That is better left to the professionals to sort out. There is not a single thing you can do to help that process, other then being supportive in a healthy way.

Quote:
My kids feel left behind also, my son seems to
Be dealing better then my daughter the both are helping me and we have had long talks. I even offered to leave and have there mom come home.

Nice gentlemanly like offer, but don't do that again. Your kids need continuity and stability right now. Keep things as they are for them.

Quote:
Both my kids hugged me at that point and I quote. "No dad your doing the right thing we just need to help Mom get better".
Nice smile

Quote:
Time To GAL

And what is on the agenda?


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
When I mention depression and hormonal issues I list them after our marriage issues


Don't sell yourself short brother, those may very well BE your marriage issues. I am quite sure they were in my case, and my W was just a little older than yours at the time. My W went through menopause and that's when it all started. Your W is right there in that age range. Menopause affects some women very little and others in a big way.

Quote:
The fact that I myself checked out of marriage for a time. My porn viewing during that time something I do not do anymore.


Good gosh, you looked at PORN?????? Oh man, you must be a horrible human being! NO WONDER you're having marital problems! I heard a statistic once- 70% of men watch porn and the other 30% lie about it, LOL! I was listening to a sermon once, I think it was Chuck Swindoll and he said they had a group of seminary students in town for a seminar and he was one of the speakers. He asked them to anonymously answer a few questions beforehand, one of which was had they watched porn in the hotel while there at the religious retreat. I'm sure they felt they could be honest because if say 25% said yes then no one would know which said yes and which said no. Only problem was when they tallied it up it was.... 100% hahahaha! You can imagine the embarrassment, they thought they could hide behind statistics but every darned one of them was guilty smile My point being, we all look at some form of porn now and then, it's normal. Yes, even seminary students. People who beat themselves up or allow their wives to beat them up for it are just denying their own humanity. I'm not saying it's right and that everyone should do it, I'm just saying that we all do. It's too easily available to resist.

Quote:
My kids feel left behind also, my son seems to
Be dealing better then my daughter the both are helping me and we have had long talks.


Awesome, you should absolutely be there to help them through this because your W probably won't be.

Quote:
I even offered to leave and have there mom come home.


NO NO NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! YOU need to stay home if you can afford to. I don't want to pick on anyone but there's a particular thread here now where the LBS moved out and his WAS invited OM right into the family home. So now she's there with OM and their kids, one big happy family, financially supported by the LBS. Talk about a sh** show.


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Thanks for the imput WF.

So my wife accused me of joining dating sites and meeting up with women well on business trips. I believe this goes back to the fact she found history of porn site on computer and a dating site link would come on the screen.

So to make things clear my wife is a very good looking women im am average guy that traded upmwhen it comes to my wife. Although the DB diet has been very good to me down 82 lbs since January. So wasn't so average when it came to weight. I compare us to the actors in King of Queens.

When she started to shut down and just sleep for hours with major hot flashes and many other strange things the acusations started coming fast and furious. My fix was to push her to do more with me. Big mistake it only pushed her fast to the door.

She still has same behavior at her parents place work then sleep long hours alone in a room.

This is why when she makes the effort to join us for activities i dont know how i should detach.

I quess if i control how things end and have things planned it is more her joining our activities i am the controling factor.
She can come or not it doesnt change what we are doing as a family.

My GAL activities mostly road trips on my bike some last minute shopping for school. Have even benn working out because lets face it when you lose 80 plus pounds that starts making you feel good about yourself.

And of course reading and visiting every marriage saver site on the net.


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Thanks AS.

Im no saint but porn was never something i was drawn to. When i did the no i dont want to do anything just site in my arm chair it was stress related new job so on and so on.

My wife really took it personally or it seems to be the case right now.

When it comes to menopause or periopause from what i read it can be wild.

I just hope that my w doesn't get to the point that the choices she makes we as a couple can't get past.

No i will not be leaving my home. My kids and i will work through this together and if and when there mom can rejoin the family we will work with her to heal the whole family.

I have also been ready many of the threads on this forum and the situation you speak of all i can say is wow.. i hope that approach works for him i dont think i could do it..

Just proves there are many ways to tackle a problem right or wrong at least there is a effort being made!!


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
So my wife accused me of joining dating sites and meeting up with women well on business trips. I believe this goes back to the fact she found history of porn site on computer and a dating site link would come on the screen.


Just saying this for perspective, but if I was her, in that circumstance, It would have created some doubt in my mind as well. So when you are accused of it, or if its replayed again. Try validating from her perspective. Think: "I now understand how that made you feel"


Quote:
So to make things clear my wife is a very good looking women im am average guy that traded upmwhen it comes to my wife. Although the DB diet has been very good to me down 82 lbs since January. So wasn't so average when it came to weight. I compare us to the actors in King of Queens.


Sorry for the armchair psychology:
How do you feel about your own self image? I ask because of the above traded up/average line as well as, when I gave you the 180 speedo idea, you totally brushed it off in a humorous way (I detect a defense kicking in)?

Quote:
My GAL activities mostly road trips on my bike some last minute shopping for school. Have even benn working out because lets face it when you lose 80 plus pounds that starts making you feel good about yourself.


Good on GAL's but keep expanding your horizons.


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Originally Posted By: woundedfool
Originally Posted By: Nrthman
So my wife accused me of joining dating sites and meeting up with women well on business trips. I believe this goes back to the fact she found history of porn site on computer and a dating site link would come on the screen.


Just saying this for perspective, but if I was her, in that circumstance, It would have created some doubt in my mind as well. So when you are accused of it, or if its replayed again. Try validating from her perspective. Think: "I now understand how that made you feel"
[/color] yes your right to many times
I have just said "you know I wouldn't do
That " or something similar

Quote:
So to make things clear my wife is a very good looking women im am average guy that traded upmwhen it comes to my wife. Although the DB diet has been very good to me down 82 lbs since January. So wasn't so average when it came to weight. I compare us to the actors in King of Queens.


Sorry for the armchair psychology:
How do you feel about your own self image? I ask because of the above traded up/average line as well as, when I gave you the 180 speedo idea, you totally brushed it off in a humorous way (I detect a defense kicking in)?

[color:#33CCFF]
. I keep bring up 5 years ago at that time even though Job was improving my self Esteem was very low. Was always a big guy football/rugby build. In shape
Just always carried extra weight. The w was the quiet girl next door type. I
Am proud of what I have accomplished in the last 3 years to get back from n track and the trade up comment I believe goes back to the fact I have always been very proud of my wife and family. Speedo comment did make me laugh. I'm just a quiet country boy that prefers cut offs.

Quote:
My GAL activities mostly road trips on my bike some last minute shopping for school. Have even benn working out because lets face it when you lose 80 plus pounds that starts making you feel good about yourself.


Good on GAL's but keep expanding your horizons.


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so WF you have me thinking...

i have always been very confident in my abilities at work and when it came to projects at home or for family. with my advancement at work a few years back i started to question everything. i would come home see my front door and wonder why i even tried. Weight gain and the shutting out my family for a time has a times now made me second quess why my wife was ever with me and if my family wanted me around. She really stood by me and kept the kids and household going the only thing i kept afloat at that time was work..

So that is some history. A small chapter that i will use to better my self going forward. In the last two years i have built a great relationship with my kids and although i at first was trying to fix there relationship with W they seem to be doing fine without Mr Fix it...

So enough about me my next post will be about the situation.


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
so WF you have me thinking...


That is my intent. wink

Quote:

So enough about me my next post will be about the situation.
No! More about you! Self reflection and assessment is a great thing.


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So since our outing on Saturday the W has reached every day by phone no R talk just talking about the days activities and some of the thinks the kids are up to.

We seem to be moving forward in small steps. the w also is planning and doing more with the kids. she is planning a family dinner i think sometimes she is testing herself.

i quickly thank people for there advise. I truly think if i hadn't heeded SOME of the advise by the people on this site i would be in a lot darker placed right now...

I still make stupid mistakes but god the number i could have made if i had not been on here reading.


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Contact continues..

The kids and l continue to stay busy the w will sometimes ask to join us. We do not adjust our plans for her if she wants to be involved she has to make adjustments in her schedule.

Ive noticed when she calls mostly just to talk about her day and work now that i just listen and dont offer advise or a sure fire fix for the propblem. I just validate... she has began to ask me question about my day and how work is going..

We even are joking aroud a bit. I still see the extreme mood swings

One minute she can be very upbeat and engaged with family the and the next she will be curled up in the corner of the sofa looking drained and exhausted.

GAL activities this weekend.
1. More touring on my bike
2. A day with the kids shopping, Movie and dinner and if w comes so be it. If not plans wont change.
3. Afternoon of fishing/visiting with long time friends.


So not really detached but i beleive for the most part interactions are more on my terms. And smiles and Thank yous have become part of it instead of huffs and hissing thru teeth!!

Time to update some of my clothing also had a lady i work with tell me it was about time to start showing off the new me.

And no Woundedfool that does not mean a new speedo is on order!


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IMHO, your W is placing responsibility on some thing or some person to be in charge of making her happy. To seek medical help, get therapy, and involve herself in healthy activities/people would be taking responsibility for herself.........and she isn't doing it.

With the same token, she wants to find a target to put all the blame for her unhappiness and feeling dead. If her personal world was larger, she might have more things/people to blame. However, in this situation, you seem to be her target.

I don't discourage anyone from making self improvements. However, I can't honestly say your improvements will bring your W around. She has to turn lose of the resentment for past offenses, along with her disillusion ideas about M. She has to be responsible for her own happiness. Until then, you could be nearly perfect and it would not change her mindset.

I tell you this b/c I feel sorry for guys I see working so hard to change, thinking it will get back the W. Whether they admit it or not, I believe that's the real intent for their changes..at least, initially. So, go ahead and improve, but don't think that's going to change her.

Women tend to be very touchy about their H bringing up the subject of hormones. Especially if he has made references in past times to her periods or "being hormonal". Also, some women are touchy about the suggestion of getting close to menopause. Therefore, it places the man in a tough spot. She would probably accept it much better from another woman. Does she have family she'll listen to? Any close female friends?

Medical science has made such strides in helping women balance hormones, it's a pity for anyone to suffer what she may be experiencing. Becoming more educated is often the ticket that gets them on a healthier path.

The excessive amount of time she spends sleeping or staying in bed, is a valid concern. She may have no motivation to get up, has nothing to look forward to in the new day, and sleeping could be more comfortable than having the dead/numb feelings. Does anyone check on her every day?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks for the imput Sandi2

Having trouble using the qoute feature..

My w was very social she started to pull away from almost everyone last year.

Yes i would be lying if i said all improvements were for me alone. At first it was i beleive just a stress reaction now it truly makes me feel good with yes a side hope that the w will notice...

She has started to approach some of her friends. I did mention she was doing more with the kids also.

It has been a few weeks since she has shown any anger directly at me she just seems confused in general. At this time i dont know anyone that could talk with her. My MIL is not in contact with me the last think said to me was w is fine physically she is just emotional broke and it was my fault. Im mind reading here but i think the MIL loves the fact she has her daughter back!!

The W works full time. The kids have contact daily. And because of the increased contact between the two of us most days we have a conversation about the days activities.

She has mention before that she feels depressed she just will not take the next step to seek help


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Quote:
Yes i would be lying if i said all improvements were for me alone. At first it was i beleive just a stress reaction now it truly makes me feel good with yes a side hope that the w will notice...


Well, I think it's safe to say she probably notices. However, that doesn't guarantee a response. And in some cases, the W resents the fact that her H waited until she was "done", before he woke up and decided to change. There again is reason he needs to make his improvements for himself, his family, and his future.

Quote:
She has started to approach some of her friends. I did mention she was doing more with the kids also.


Okay, good.

Quote:
It has been a few weeks since she has shown any anger directly at me she just seems confused in general.


Confused about her feelings, or about what she wants to do at this point?

Quote:
She has mention before that she feels depressed she just will not take the next step to seek help


Well, you can't make an adult do something they want to do..........unless she appears to be suicidal.

I did not know she held down a job. Maybe she's not sleeping as much as I misinterpreted. Does she like her job, get along with co-workers, or just generally a blah attitude?

How is your GAL coming along?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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The w says she is not at the point were she can move forward with our relationship. She mentioned that on our outing that i set in motion. You warned me Sandi2!!

She does want to talk regilarly to improve communication between the too of us.

She is all over the map when it comes to her job some days it is great and then she may go weeks hating it. I was Mr fix it offering suggestions or i would say leave the issues at work now i listen and encourage her by reminding her of the quality of work she does. She has a couple co-workers she considers friends. She is not full time so hrs change from day to day. She has a hard time getting to work on time she will sleep on her lunch if working the full day and will be in bed early or if she is visiting us will fall asleep on sofa multiple times. Weekends will stay in bed late.

To compare a picture from last year and now my wife looks really tired. I mention a few post ago that my wife was the girl next door type she always looked after herself this is not the case right now How do i put this she is almost grubby in appearance.

My Gal is going great. Have connected with some old friends. My son and i have a regular night out movies and dinner.

A couple nights a week the family including the w sit down for a home cooked meal and family time after usually TV or sometimes a game.

Question

Do you think the w is only taking part in these evening because of the kids?

I ask that question knowing im mind reading but if she didnt want to have me in her life she could arrange evenings with kids without me.


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So contact continues on a daily bases. The w is opening up talking more and even brings up some happy memories. She did have issues at work on friday and shut down for a few hours in fhe evening but her mood passed fast compared to a few months ago.

I find that if we (kids and I) have plans the w will actually show some interest. Last night she actually put forward a small activity that kids and i agreed to do with her.

Im trying tokeep busy with home improvement projects and road tours on the bike this weekend.

So with this increase in contact we are talking alot more mostly about work. W has started walking for exercise and has ask if i would like to jion her sometimes.

The hot and cold from her has me confused but i do see signs of improvement. Still sleeps alot 10-14 hrs a day.

Was late for church today and was going to lay down right after. Said she would call tonight wants to make plans for tomorrow. I let her know i have plans said she could join me.

So suggestions please what do i do going forward??


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Been reading alot about retrouville my w is against counciling how could i table this as a different approach?

I just worry all this contact is for kids only my w is very faith driven also so guilt maybe playing a factor..


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Hmmm so went to lunch with w today. We met at the diner. Last couple days i have been overthinking and trying to mindread in a big way so my mood wsnt very good.


She noticed and asked what was wrong. I vented told her both me and the kids were trying to help her and i felt she was being selfish. Going in and out of our lives almost cake eating.

I brought up that even she realizes some issues are not going to be dealt with by her alone that she needs professional help be it a doctor or some one to help with the emotional stuff going on.

I also stated that i was and still am shouldering my part in all this but i refuse to take all the blame for it.

We had our lunch just small talk mostly about kids and work. As we were leavinv my w looked at me thanked me for being a good dad and H. She went on to say the daily contact was moving us in right direction. She started to cry and asked for more time to get things worked out.

I responded with:

It was never me that wanted this, i have been supportive but there are limits...l need to protect myself emotionally too

She started to cry and again said Thank you for being who you are. I thanked her for having lunch with me and our talk and proceeded to my car.

She walked to my car embraced me. Said enjoy the rest of my day and asked well holding me to please keep up with our daily talks.

I left and went to pick up a few things as im driving towards home to drop off my purchases and switch over to my bike i notice that the w is still in parking area of diner approx an hour since i said good bye to her. I do not stop..

I waited about 2 more hours and texted her a thank you for having lunch with me. She texted back right away and thanked me also. She texted see you tomorrow evening, i dont no of any plans we have but did not respond to that part of message. Texted have agood night.

WHY DO I FEEL LIKE IM DOING THIS ALL WRONG?

Over and over again i see in other threads trust your gut? Well my gut tells me something bad is going to happen and my DBing is less then ideal...

Weekends kill me during the week i never get this worked up...

Sorry for any typos im on my phone. Time to find a road with some curves notbing like going 100 on a bike to clear your head...


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman

Over and over again i see in other threads trust your gut? Well my gut tells me something bad is going to happen and my DBing is less then ideal...


While it's not a black or white rule...

DB'ing doesn't really advocate trusting your gut. In fact is more about shutting your brain off and doing things counter to what your head or gut say.

For example:

Stop scheduling dates/lunches!

Stop having R talks!

Stop mind reading!

Stop overthinking!

Start GAL'ing.... if your mind is racing on the weekend, it means you need more GAL's.


Me: 43
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So completely on board with you about the mind reading and overthinking. Definitly need more GAL activities.

With me being checked out of marriage until late last year wouldn't be concidered a 180 for me to do things with my kids and W.

The w knows that if we invite her and she refuses it doesn't change our plans. And on a couple of the outing she invited herself. Both times that it was the two of us it was a face to face invite and W was very excited about the outing. It just seems to overwelm her part way through.

She wants to complain about herself as a mother, what happens at work, i just listen and validate.

With the school year starting im busy with the kids. My S is showing a lot of stress and anger. I am encouraging him to talk with his Mom and let her know how he feels. Both kids are still very surprised we are separated and the amount of time that has passed.

They are building a good relationship with me but as this continues i see a gap opening between them and there Mom at times then they seem to reconnect. It,s like the w is unsure of them as well. Sorry mindreading again....

So how do i show im checked back in to the family without seeming needy or pushy to the W??


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
So how do i show im checked back in to the family without seeming needy or pushy to the W??


You show by demonstrating and consistent actions.

Do not point it out or draw attention to it, because she will notice it.


Me: 43
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ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
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Small update

We have been in contact by phone everyday. Wife started to act wierd yesterday pulling back from my son.

This morning she refused contaact from him. I reached out with a good morning text it was ignored.

She has know gone dark phone is off and the one text son got was im busy and then i have plans.

I understand her moods with me but this up and down with the kids is getting to me.

My son has lots of pressure with school he is a being watched by multipe universities sports related. And this is definitly getting to him.

He worries im going to give up. He thinks we can fix this. He is quick to blame him self if mom starts to get mad. I see a lot of me in him he wants to be a Mr Fix it.

Mr Fix it is at a loss on how to deal with this....


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How do you guys and ladies stay in this half in half out of M limbo for the amounts of time i see on here.

Even with GAL everytime another month passes i feel like im back at step one of this... yes i have seen major improvements but

I dont know....

I feel like every good thing i have done in my marriage in the last 25 years means nothing.


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Does all the good things mean something to you? If it does that should be all that matters right now. Your WW won't acknowledge none of your goods and positive aspects until she's out of her fog. Keep moving forward and becoming the best you possible.


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BD:06/28/17
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Yes they do joejoe1. Just a bad night i guess. I can handle the w and her moods just watching my son working through this today has been tough. I certainly wouldn't want to be the kids on the team my son plays this week!!


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Yeah I wouldn't want tonbe on the opposite team of your sons as well.

You are their watch tower. Keep upnthe good work.


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So 5am here my son wakes me up wants to go for a drive. As we are grabbing a coffee he looks at me and says drive by where mom is staying!!

I go into protection mode. Saying this will not do any of us any good.

My son replys: i want to know if mom is there if she isn't she is choosing her new life over us.

Its like my son is going through what i did months ago. I still have moments..

Coming to conclusion cantact is only on w terms even when it comes to the kids.

Feel like calling w this morning and telling her to stay away for awhile.


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So im failing badly...

For 20+ years every decision every move i made was for my family. Im there for my son and daughter but things just keep getting worse.

My s tries to stay in contact with is mom. She will make plans to talk with him then will not answer phone. He has started to want to check up on her if she blows him off or sends a text then shuts off phone.

Daughter seems to be doing the best of us all i know she hasn't read any of my DB books but she has her GAL activities down pat..

Back to why im failing ...we did check on the w she was not at MIL

Train completely came of the track tonight multiply phone calls by my son to w no response.

Ilost patience i called a few times only good think voice mailbox was full so i couldnt leave a message. I did text her but by that time had myself in a little better frame of mind.

She will know we have checked up on her and i beleive my S did leave a few messages..

I have had limited contact over last 4 days and it is very easy to have your imagination get the better of you.

Im stuggling to understand this...

w leaves no talk of devorce, other then cloths and not much of them has not moved forward with anything else. Is all over the map with contact. Will convince herself kids kids do not want to spend time with her even though the try and plan things and are in contact everyday.

She Has stayed strong in our church (attendance). Sits in the same row as us,

One or two comments back i mentioed telling her to stay away.

Boundaries Question

Should i discuss the issue of contact with the kids?

It has been 7-8 months with some change in contact but no real change in what the w actually is moving towards.

Is it a common thing for a waw to leave and just go into a holding pattern with no real end game.

Iknow there are comments like they always have a plan in place, my w seemed to run but then settle back into same behavior patterns..

Im truly at a loss on how to continue my GAL has taken a hit over last few days more concered with my S and where his thoughts are at.


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Back reading DR. Need to get things slowed down and put into perspective.


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Have been keeping my distance from w. Lost my temper a few days back with her told her I wasn't going to help or even try to explain to the kids what she was doing it was all on her. i startyto tell her it's one thing for her to be rude to me then actually stopped mid sentence. Looked at her and said actually no there is no time when either of us have the right to be rude to each other. We are supposed to be here for the kids not the other way around.

W has been regular on the phone to the kids since the exchange and has asked to be included on a family outing.

I have talked and only saw her once in 4 days she smiled at me then started to break down said she needed time to fix herself I again lost patience and said not at the expense of me or the kids. I left before I said anything else. The kids have mentioned she does ask
Them how I'm doing and she has them pass messages like have a good night or good day.

I know she is going through a lot but I find when I am around her my temper is short.

I love this lady and I'm getting sick of not being able to tell her or show her. She still has no social life to speak of and says on numerous occasions she wants to be back home then goes back to the I need to be alone to fix myself line.

Tomorrow should be interesting invited to a big birthday party that wife is invited to also. Received text from her tonight asking if I was going when I didn't respond she texted again saying she was looking forward to seeing me. I texted back the yes I would be there.

I think a early morning ride on the back roads will get my mind right for the afternoon.


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Northman,

Please, please listen to me.

Right now, I feel the ball is in your court. And it may be short lived. So pay attention.

DO NOT TEXT HER AGAIN. Go out on your ride in the morning, clear your head, and if it feels right, go to the party. But IF IT DOESN'T, DON'T GO. And DO NOT send a text explaining why you didn't, etc.

Be a little mysterious, and on a personal note that is none of my business, I hope you will be too BUSY with GAL to attend the party, YES, even after you texted and said you would be there.

It may be the very thing that drives her to wonder where you are, and who you are with, and WHO COULD POSSIBLY BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN HER?

But if that doesn't happen, then so be it. You ARE NOT having other, more important plans, b/c of her, but b/c of YOU. Your life is so full, you don't have time to work this party in.... hopefully you see what I'm saying, with all my heart...... but do what is right for you.

I just feel like I need to talk, since I posted my heart out today, and no one has responded yet, but I know how this board goes.... if your sitch is not interesting or urgent, people tend to sit back and just read but not respond, but they have no idea what a response would mean to you.

Just sayin, I know how you feel, and I'm wishing you all the very best.


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"First the pain, then the rising."
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Le,

I know how you feel. I make post with no response and I go on people's thread and offer advice all the time.

North,

I agree Le, skip this party. I know you told her you were going. But I think it's in your favor if you dont attend. If W ask why, tell her something more important came up. I think Le is right about the ball being in your court, don't let it go back in hers.


M:37 W:37
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BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
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Early early morning ride thanks again Joejoe and Leah. My phone is off just as soon as I finish typing. My day will be GAL all day time to put 500 or more on the bike. Enjoy your Sunday a good day to reflect on life. And as Leah put it WE LIVE.


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Yes, we do.

HALLELUJAH.


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We live and We love. Enjoy the road.


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I didn't invite my W to my own b-day party a month into our separation. If you don't think you would be able to enjoy yourself then don't go!

Enjoy your bikeride hopefully you find it theraputic!


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M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
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I suggest you set up an appointment for you and the kids to see a family therapist.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Quote:
I suggest you set up an appointment for you and the kids to see a family therapist

I agree with Sandi, but be very careful on whom you pick.

Your kids are at an age where they have a real good picture of what's going on. I was 16 when my parents divorce was final, and although this was the 1980s, the "therapy" didn't provide a lot of value to me at the time. Their therapist was a kook, and we saw right through that. Your kids will too.

Plus, you and W need to be really clear on what the objective is, leaving personal agendas aside...which is really challenging considering you want a different outcome. I know it would be very hard for me to do family therapy when I see very clearly who in the family has a drive to preserve things (me and kids) and who wants out (W).

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So small update,

Son is seeing a councillor seems to be doing him some good.
The w has been in contact regularly by phone with the kids.
After i lost my temper with her she has tried to have contact with me everyday i went 4 days with no contact she would send good night and have a good day messages through the kids.

She called today and had my son pass me the phone this is the jist of the conversation.

Her: Im trying to work on things but i need time.
Me: i understand its good to have a handle on things.
Her: i need your support.
Me: you do get my supportt.
Her Do i
Me: please share with me what you concider support.
Her: You could check on me or ask me how my day is going.
Me: Thank you for sharing your concerns. If we can talk and be respectful of each other i would be more then willing to check on you from time to time.
Her: Im trying i do want to come home.
Me i appreciate your efforts but nothing should be rushed and at no time should we forget the feelings of the kids in all this.

Her: i know im a terrible mother...
Me: At no time have i said that or implied it we and i mean we have to be careful not to forget young adults are involved..

Her: im trying...
Me: Dont give up on yourself or the family.

Her: Thank you
Me: Have a good day..



She continued to talk with my son finished convo with him saying that she is trying and that she loves him.

She is on a roll today multiple text about her day has asked if it is alright to come over and spend evening with us. My son let her know we are going to be home tonight watching a movie. She is now texting asking if she can bring something or if i would like her to make something.

I almost feel like i should make plans and not be home tonight. Im confused ...

I limit my contact with her for 4 days and she makes out that im not supportive. She left she was the one empty inside and for the most part she thought it was my fault!!

Im afraid to reach out and get my hand cutoff...

So what do i do ??


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I am talking with a coach. My son has a councillor now. My daughter is just staying exgra busy.


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How goes the GAL's? Start anything besides biking?


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Glad to hear you're talking to a DB coach, they can help you navigate these convos with your W. I think you're doing OK but you really need to brush up on validation. Let's break down your convo with her:

Originally Posted By: Nrthman

Her: i need your support.
Me: you do get my supportt.
Her Do i


Clearly she doesn't think she's getting the kind of support she wants. So take that to heart and try and improve on it.

Quote:
Me: please share with me what you concider support.
Her: You could check on me or ask me how my day is going.
Me: Thank you for sharing your concerns. If we can talk and be respectful of each other i would be more then willing to check on you from time to time.


That's not a bad response, but she's asking you to help and you are attaching requirements to it. Why? What is wrong with what she is asking? And your implication is that she is being disrespectful. Remember, when it comes to validation it is ALL about her, not you. This is the time to fulfill HER needs. Yours come later after you get hers sorted out.

Quote:
Her: Im trying i do want to come home.
Me i appreciate your efforts but nothing should be rushed and at no time should we forget the feelings of the kids in all this.


There it is again that "but". There's a saying, "but" renders everything said before it null and void. When you say "I appreciate your efforts, but..." you're basically saying "your efforts don't matter because of XYZ." A validating response would be "I appreciate your efforts, I am sure this is very difficult and frustrating for you and I will try to support you better in the future."

Quote:
Her: i know im a terrible mother...
Me: At no time have i said that or implied it we and i mean we have to be careful not to forget young adults are involved..


Validating is NOT disagreeing with her. She is expressing FEELINGS, you need to VALIDATE them, not disagree with them or tell her she's wrong. A validating response would be "I am sorry you feel you're a terrible mother, that must be frustrating, is that how you feel?"

Quote:
Her: im trying...
Me: Dont give up on yourself or the family.


This is maybe your worst response and a terrible note to end the conversation on. It sounds almost like you're expecting her to fail and -warning- her about it. Validating response- "I can see you are trying very hard and I want you to know how much I appreciate it. I'm sure this is very difficult for you, I want you to know I am here for you and please, feel free to let me know if you want to talk again." She needs your support now more than ever and is practically begging you for it. GIVE IT TO HER. Right now you need to be a DIFFERENT you, not the same old dismissive H that she wanted to leave in the first place. Work on being different. What would appeal to her about an OM right now? Someone that listens, validates, is sensitive to what she is going through and what emotional support she needs. YOU NEED TO BE THAT OM!!!

Quote:
She is on a roll today multiple text about her day has asked if it is alright to come over and spend evening with us. My son let her know we are going to be home tonight watching a movie. She is now texting asking if she can bring something or if i would like her to make something.

I almost feel like i should make plans and not be home tonight. Im confused ...


Why? Sounds like a good opportunity to show her what she's missing. Invite her over, ask her to make something to bring along, and when she comes over show her the new and improved you.

Quote:
I limit my contact with her for 4 days and she makes out that im not supportive. She left she was the one empty inside and for the most part she thought it was my fault!!


Own your part in it. Do 180's on those things.


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AnotherStander,

You clearly have perfected validation. Just learned a few things myself. This stuff clearly needs to be taught to the world.


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Lots and lots of seat time on the bike...

Also busy time of year with my s and his football i help with the school league.

Church group keeps me busy 1or 2 nights a week also


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Thank you AS for the break down of my conversation with the W.
I thought i was on the same page when it came to validation turns out im not even in the same book....

Oh well something to work on...

So now a small update..

W has stayed in contact everyday if we dont see her in person there is a phone call in the evening.
We went for a drive as a couple a few days ago everything was easy going then i could tell she was getting anxious i stop the car and asked if she was all right...she waas quiet for a long time then said ...things are so different...

I asked her if it was a good thing she hesitated then said yes. We have 3 family planned outings that the w seems very excited about.

The kids are away this week end and the w asked me out for a early evening dinner with a hint at some plan for after.


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Last two days have been a glimpse into the past. W has been in contact by phone. She spent the evening with the family last night. We talked on the phone this AM. Throughout the day multiple texts we are planning an event for the kids. A call this evening just to ask how the rest of my day went and actually had her laughing a couple times. W has not laughed with me in almost a year.

Now some truth...

This scares me... so have so much hope that things will
Workout but every time I see progress I feel like I'm having panic attack.

Real progress has been made since the day lost my patience with her and placed some boundaries on what I would except as far as communication with kids and myself. W still spends a great deal of time alone and sleeping if not at work. But now will call even if tired and try to talk with the kids sometimes just to say good night. I thanked her for this the other night she looked at me and said it's nothing. I looked at her and said a goodnight by voice is 100 times better The a text and if she needed proof I would send her a picture of the kids well the were on the phone with her. She started to tear up hugged me and said she needed to leave.
W texted me later that night and Thanked me for a good evening.

Lots of good going on but can't seem to keep the ROCK of my chest.

Today was a GAL day some biking and volunteer work at community garden


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The Rock is firmly on my chest...

Last 10 days the W has been trying very hard to be part of the family. Well she is with us I can tell she is having fun. I watch from a distance and you can actually see her shut down. In a matter of minutes she can go From m happy to looking completely knackered.

My son has started to understand and deal with the situation better he has a good support network with his councillor and One or two of his friends. My daughter well what can I say tipical girl dad knows nothing..

I continue to try and GAL. My biking season will end shortly so I though I might take up wall climbing.

My W and I have contact every day now by phone it is always positive and she has expressed an interest to do things as a couple like going for a walk or coffee. We have full day family things once every couple weeks. We attend church and have a regular family tv/game with dinner. This has been regular for last 6 weeks.

I feel this is all positive but as I read other threads I see opinions given like cake eating.

I guess I would think that if I saw her having a active social life but that is a definite no. Still lots of alone time and sleep when not with us or working


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Update

Spending morw and more time together. W is in touch daily now is quick to smile and be part of conversations. We have started to do things as a couple coffee and walks and the odd lunch date. When she comes to the house she helps with dinner and is paft of the family interactions. She talks about the changes she sees in me but is worried its not a perminate thing. When she talks like that i dont respond i hope my actions speak for me.

W also is more involved with the kids and is coming to all of my sons Games.

Also small shows of affections. Hand rezted on my shoulder, during walks she will place her hand in mine.

I have started to share some of my plans GAL activities with her. She shows interst and will call and ask about my day and discuss it.

Little but steady improvement i ask god for continued patience and the will to keep making myself a better person.

QUESTION


What are peoples thoughts on asking WAW to come home or should that come from a decision she makes not a request from me...


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Quote:
What are peoples thoughts on asking WAW to come home or should that come from a decision she makes not a request from me...


Why? What has changed in the past dozen days?

Quote:
You can actually see her shut down. In a matter of minutes she can go From m happy to looking completely knackered.


IMHO, it doesn't sound as if she is quite ready. Is she seeing a doctor for her imbalanced hormones? Is she getting counseling? Is she still spending as much time in bed?

Going back together before she is more stable, could result in a fast relapse that would set her farther back. If that was to happen, it would be more difficult for her to try again. It seems to me that it would be better to give it more time.

Is she asking about coming home, or is it you that's getting anxious?

BTW, I meant to tell you earlier that you need to stop being Mr. Fixit. Women want to vent about their job\day. They want to be heard by their H......not fixed. smile


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Just getting ahead of myself. Yes anxiety is high.

Ask here First so I don’t plant foot deep in mouth!!

As far as fixing I have pulled back on that.

So many great things over the last month nice to have signs of the old w back. With her having a big part in planning and suggestions for family time and trips it is very easy for me to go 0-60.

She doesn’t talk about coming home. It is more along the lines of how much she enjoyed time with us. She does tell my son that she is working on coming home.

W does still show signs of fatigue but will acknowledge it. She is seeing a doctor but does not share the details and I don’t ask.


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If she is doing better with the kids, that is certainly encouraging. I hope you can keep your impatience checked, b\c as long as she is saying she's working on going back home.....then she knows she isn't ready at the moment.

I'm glad to hear she is seeing a doctor.


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So things continue on a positive note.. only thing that has me a little confused my w tried to start an argument with me just very Kurt and snippy. I looked at her smiled and said “. I don’t know why your upset and I feel there isn’t enough time for you to explain (she had work) so please have a good day and rest assured I will to. She had a look on her face I had to turn away so I wouldn’t smile again at her. She apologize to my son later in the day and actually came and seen me later and visited well I worked in the yard.

I feel like I’m being tested just little things but I know when I have reacted the right way because my w will actively search out me.

I look at the changes in myself and even my kids and it is all good things. They never had a problem showing there love to their mother and now the w will always make statements like if the want me to or I don’t know if they want.

It’s like she is trying to convince her self that we don’t want her around she sees things we have accomplished around the house and she will almost break into tears.

That last bit didn’t sound positive but she is making the choice to be at the house and be involved with family outings on a regular bases.

First time in months I did some snooping it had me so bothered I could not sleep last night. I check a phone bill mostly because my w is being a little vague about time she spends with a friend this friend is not pro marriage Rec and it gets me going 0-60. Having a hard time minding my own business and just moving forward....


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Why does this have you confused?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Why does this have you confused?




Just that we had no reason to argue. All these good things going on why try and ruin things with a fight...


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Quote:
Just that we had no reason to argue. All these good things going on why try and ruin things with a fight...


You think rationally. She doesn't. You have the ability to categorize. She doesn't. She is not going to do actions that make sense. It is one of the potholes the LBH can hit, when he thinks everything is going smoothly.......Wham! Then he left feeling dazed and confused.


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Thanks for your replys and questions Sandi it helps me greatly.

With work being very hectic these days for both myself and W. Our contact person to person has been limited. My W has been texting me more and we talk by phone usually once a day mostly updates about kids. We met up yesterday for my sons game talked and just had fun together. Later on in the evening we meet again it wasn't planned we start talking about the day and the kids i mention im hungry my W looks at me and says were shoild we go.

We spend just over an hour at the Bar no R talk just light conversation with lots of smiles and laughs. I bring the evening to an end by letting her know i still have some things to get. I know this is MIND READING but she seemed sad that our evening was coming to an end.

So in the parking lot we sit in the car together for a few minutes holding hands and again just light talk about our schedules my w looks at me as im about to exit car and says lets keep doing what we are doing i just get overwelmed sometimes...

All i could say was i understand and thank you for sharing this with me...


I will mention this also in last couple weeks my W has been bringing me treats or calling and asking me if i want coffee and when at Sons events

These are all actions that i have not seen in months..

I keep reminding myself slow and steady wins the race....


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I can see why it would be difficult not to allow your hopes to soar. Maybe it is a baby step for her. Just please, do not push her. It's very important that you let her take the time she needs.


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Keeping my hopes in check.

My w continues to involve herself in family activities even with extended family.
The amount of time she spends with us is growing and she asks questions about my day and shows interest in planning outing and other activities.

One small bump my daughter is being very distant with me and her mother. My w seen an interaction between me and daughter, she was as rude and said some things that are not easy to put to the page. Without loosing my temper I looked at my daughter and said that over the last several months I have been trying to make positive changes for myself and the family and you as a young person also need to reflect on how you treat people.

Daughter stormed off and w and I just waved good bye to each other. Later that day w texted me trying to take blame for the situation.

I texted back that we need to look at it like a work in progress. Where both of us continue to work on ourselves and by doing this the family will benefit.
W texted back in a very positive way.

Now my Question??

What else can I do?

I so badly want to take her into my arms and pull a Cary Grant move (yes watched them with my mother growing up he had all the right moves when it came to the ladies)

Now that a Cary Grant reference as crossed my mind time to leave and watch something with explosives and gunshots


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman

Now my Question??

What else can I do?


DB'ing is all about baby steps. You are seeing some nice baby steps. So keep doing what you're doing! Remember the squirrel analogy. If you want to feed a squirrel you have to hold the nut out towards it and then hold perfectly still. It will move towards you slowly, but sometimes run away for no reason. Then it'll move towards you again, but as it gets closer if you try to close the distance it'll bolt again. Each time, the process starts all over again. But if you stay still and patient, and let it keep approaching, eventually it will reach you. So keep doing what you're doing and dig down into your well of patience! Any sudden moves like that Cary Grant thing are going to send her running. It doesn't work like the movies.


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Thanks AS,

No worries on the Cary Grant moves. Slow and stead is my go to I repeat it under my breath anytime I feel like going 0-60...

Just happy to be able to put forward some positive steps in my M.

Also happy with my positive changes. It is nice when your family sees and comments on not only physical changes but also personality as well. Even people at work have commented on my changes and the fact that I seem to be taking things and dealing with problems in a more positive way. I was know as a guy that would push and not let up on something until it was dealt with. Sometimes at the expense of my family and those I work with.


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So talked with my coach first time in three months. Just a quick thanks again to those that post to my thread and to Chuck from MWD coaching.

So I keep seeing small improvements with the w and I. I have noticed that my Mil has started to actively show her disapproval mostly by trying to interrupt moments my w and I have and also posting relationship memes to my kids time lines. I quit following her because I found it like snooping I started to check daily to see what she was posting.

So Chuck my coach mentioned this could be a good thing because the W continue’s to come forward in the R and a cost can be associated with it. An example her R with Mother and others in her support Network. If the W has to put effort and “cost” be it emotional and a change with others many times the reconciliation and marriage is better in the long run.

This has given me a lot to think on...

Question?

So even though w is not receiving positive feed back and continues to have more contact with me and the kids. Do I continue the same or try and include Mil in One of our sit down meal family activities right now she attends sporting events with my wife to watch son.


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The way I see it, she's going to be in your life for the rest of your life (well, her life, really), no matter what happens between you and W. You might as well try to do what you can to improve your relationship with her. It might have the side benefit of reducing the negative feedback.


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Update

The w and I are spending more and more time with each other. The smiles are coming more often. We have started to date I guess... we are trying to talk daily and really listen to each other.

My job takes back seat to my family now. Surprise surprise you can do well at work and put your family first.

I made what I though was a mistake but judging by my W reaction I don’t know. Was shopping for some clothes for my self waste measurement has gone down 6’. Near end of day stopped and purchased a gift for my w. On one of our quick coffee dates I gave it to her. At first she looked sad when she excepted it but did give me a hug and a thank you. A couple days later she is wearing it and even telling people who got it for her.

Hopefully we continue to move in the right direction very concerned with time of year and just how much I try to have her included in planned family functions.


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Nrt,

Good job. Keep upnthe hard work and remember to keep the pressure off of her.


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Onward and forward

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Update

We continue to move forward. We are now talking daily by phone. My W seems to be happier and I notice her at times watching me I think I surprise her with the changes I have made and the life I live without her at home.

We had a lunch date and for the first time had a R talk. Things started to be more negative then was good for either of us. I looked at her and asked if she felt I was being honest to her she got emotional and said I don’t know.

During our 25+ years of marriage we have over come some very hard and sad situations. I reminded her of this and then proceeded to tell her that I know that with out a doubt we could have a life without each other. I continue by letting her know my choice to stand and fight for our marriage was my choice. It is not a matter of winning or showing you I’m right. I’m here with you because I want to be and it is your choice to be out of our home and I will support you where I can as long as we are honest to one another.

Fortunately we were able to change the subject and continued with our date. We talked about upcoming family activities and she even mentioned our spring vacation plans. We said our goodbyes well seated in the car I do not tell her ILY but usually let her know she is in my thoughts. She looked at me and said she thinks about me also. As she walked around the car I was opening her door for her instead of getting into the car she embraced me and there we stood for what seem to me for a long... time she backed up said thank you got in the car and drove away.

The last few days our conversations start by her says (Do you think, I would like too, This would be fun,). She is being so positive it scares me. We are going on 4 days in a row hanging out together and only once has it been my idea. I have GAL plans tonight hockey game with friends my W called asking if I wanted to meet up for a drink I let her know I had plans but thanked her for invite. She told me to have a good time drink a beer for her and that she would call me later. I know I should continue status quo but can’t help but ask....

What are my next steps???


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Things have been going good. We seem to be talking more and more signs of affection from my W. Yesterday was a big test we were invited out as a couple to a cards and wine night i gave her the invitation and let her decided if we were going or not. She wanted to go even though it was our church group and everyone knows we are seperated.

It waz a good night. Lots of laughs and our good bye in the parking lot was again emotional on her part she hugged and held me for a extended time and thanked me for a good evening.

I had to work today but we have been intouch by phone and she is planing on having a family day tomorrow.

QUESTION:

Has anyone been a part of a couples course like retrovi and the one put on by Marriage helpers? Marriage 911

I only ask this because im looking for something that my w and i can do together to help rebuild our communication and intimacy.


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Our contact continues to improve. Kids started counciling and even there relationship with there mother has improved greatly. The family day i mentioned was great. We talk everyday and most days we see each other. My wife now talks about things getting better and is very thankful to me about everything.

I will ask my question again.

Can anyone give some insite on retrovi or the 3 day marriage help work shop.

I hope to continue with the positive direction we are going.


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My w has started to plan activities and even small 2 day trips. She still lives at her mothers but is spending more time with me and the kids. I know slow and steady wins the race. She seems so much happier and less tired. So do I just continue as is or let her know she is welcome to come home. When she left a told her the door was open for her to return. I have not actually invited her back since than.

My Gal activities continue, she shows interest in my plans and asks about my day on a regular basis now..

I don’t know I am more nervous about upcoming weekend away even though it is is all planned by her.

What do I do just follow her lead?


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Originally Posted By: Nrthman
What do I do just follow her lead?


I think yes, just follow her lead.

I have not done Retrouville, but on this board have heard many great things about it. It is more than a weekend, there are multiple follow-up days after the first weekend. You should not go unless the W is fully committed to doing it.


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If things are getting better, I'd keep doing it. Do what works. It sounds like what you are doing works.


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I went to Retrouvialle and my experience was rare in that it was a disaster. My problem is WH was not really engaged to save our marriage and refused to participate half way through. We almost left early but one of the host pairs convinced us to stay. WH refused to do the follow up appointments (6 Sundays of more workshops) and I attended half of them alone (it was humiliating though the other couples praised me for my determination) and felt it would have been great if WH would have just done the work. If you and your wife are getting better then I would hold off for a bit. Keep doing what works!


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Quote:
During our 25+ years of marriage we have over come some very hard and sad situations. I reminded her of this and then proceeded to tell her that I know that with out a doubt we could have a life without each other. I continue by letting her know my choice to stand and fight for our marriage was my choice. It is not a matter of winning or showing you I’m right. I’m here with you because I want to be and it is your choice to be out of our home and I will support you where I can as long as we are honest to one another.


Although this post was last month, I want to respond to it. As I've tried to point out previously, these type of talks pushes her. It is a lot of emotional pressure for someone in your W's condition.

Like so many LBH's, you want to fix the situation, and in your eyes that means you need to be doing "the next step". The next step is to stop having these type of talks. You need to allow her to come to you with her concerns. But if you take this stuff to her, you are taking a big risk of setting things back. Also, she needs to work through her issues with being with her children full time, before putting them through that experience again.

Quote:
I will ask my question again.

Can anyone give some insite on retrovi or the 3 day marriage help work shop.


I have no personal experience. There use to be talk about it on the board, but I haven't heard much in a while. 25YRSMLC used to encourage people to attend. I have seen her write that both spouses need to be willing, and I think she said that if there was an affair that they would not sign you up. You can ask her. I've heard that their sessions are very intense, and they also have follow up sessions.

Quote:
What do I do just follow her lead?


As long as you are seeing positive results, I would say it is the correct move.


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Thanks for reply Sandi,

R talk was started by W. I tried to validate but started to get off side. Needed to learn to shut up.

I haven’t asked her back and most of the activities of late have been planned by her. Small improvements.

I do appreciate the comments to be cautious thanks again


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Sounds like you're on the right track.


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Time flies..

Contact seemz to be getting better. We are doing more as a family my w actively talks about future things and even smiles and laughs more. I guess if i had to give it a name im in the friend zone.

I consider this a vast improvement. W is starting to be social again and even joking around in groups.

There has been no talk of her coming home or any relationship discussions.

QUESTION

Anniversary is coming up w has exprezsed interest in a dinner out im just wondering if i should give a gift or stick to a card


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1 year of not living together man has it gone by fast.

Changes I have seen in myself.

1 lost 75 lbs.

2 reconnected with my kids in a big way.

3 can for the most part discuss any problem be it marriage, kids, or Day to Day stuff with a calm heart and if it can’t be resolved know that it can be look d at in the future it doesn’t need to stop all progress.

4 I’m able to ask for help I may not use or except the given advise all the time but I will listen and think on it. This is big for me because for a lot of years I was a 1 man show felt I couldn’t ask help of anyone.

5 I see signs of improvement or maybe its wishful thinking. I know now I can survive and be happy without my wife but hope above all else that we reconcile

6. Have started taking night courses and online courses. Nothing to do with bettering myself at work just things I find interesting. A 48 year old taking small engine repair and world cooking Talk about to much free time Lol.

List could be longer but need to hit the road.

Keep working on yourselves fellow DBers. Thanks for support and advise I do use😎.


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Update

GAL continues very busy with house improvements and helping my kids prepare for college. The w and i continue to work on the marriage she is very positive and even talks about our future. This is definitly a marathon not a race.


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