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stuff = stfu, auto-incorrect at it again


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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What a viper lie MLCer. Sounds like she has a lot of anger to burn out.

Congrats on the job!! Nicely done.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Congrats on getting the job! That's got to feel a bit better!

Sounds like MLCer is feeling stressed and unappreciated, which is what most MLCers feel or say they feel. The woe is me, Eyore point of view that every effort they make in life is trampled on, especially by the spouse. Its a pity she can't see past that. You handled it just fine. Hey, watermelon is messy...and delicious! Can't deny that summer treat to the kids...and its fun to watch them enjoying life.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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Awesome news on the new job. It is a hard adjustment from a small family firm to a large corporation but sounds like you are doing well with that.

Re the watermelon incident, if it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 169
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Brubeck Offline OP
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The legal stuff for mental filing.

September, 2016 - W gets a job. She keeps the entire paycheck to herself in a private account. Continues to drain the joint checking account with personal purchases. I move all the money into private accounts. She tries to act hurt when I tell her this but is an awful actor.

October, 2016 - W files for a D. Her divorce lawyer also gets a financial restraining order placed on my bank accounts. My money is frozen. I hire a divorce L, he works on unfreezing the accounts with the other L. Her L insists on a court order saying my W is entitled of half of my net pay after bills are paid. We agree. Her L says we can unfreeze the account, but it turns out she's wrong - only she can do it. It takes 3 weeks to get done. I have to live off credit cards during that time.

The court order also stipulates that W can't leave the kids at home alone (she did it twice). Her L tries to put in a motion to forbid me from making audio recordings at home (I was snooping). My L has this stricken from the court order but doesn't tell me (I see it in the first draft but not the second).

November, 2016 - Opposing L direct mails me two forms to fill out - "Interrogatories" and "Notice To Produce". The first is my financial portfolio and the second my financial history. I notify my L. They ask me to fill out what I can and mail it back to them. Nothing further.

February, 2017 - Lose my job the month before. Her L files a petition demanding I get a job. W knows I'm looking for a job. I tell her it's a waste of money for both of us and it's going to cost me just to reply to this nonsense. W gets sheepish and looks away and says her L filed the motion without her approval, that it was in place as a "back-up". A lie.

March, 2017 - I google her L. In practice since 1989. No website. Google maps shows her address is unmarked office out in the suburbs. Only reviews I can find are negative - dishonest, unprepared, greedy, uncommunicative. Much of this verified by my L, my W's complaints, or myself. Takes days to return calls. Every piece of litigation has typos. Doesn't follow procedures.

April, 2017 - Tax returns. W asks how should we handle it. I say $900 has to go to the water bill and we can split the rest 50/50. She says her L wants to put it in escrow until a later date. I say my lawyer has to approve this first. She drops the conversation.

May, 2017 - Both tax returns in the joint savings account on May 1st. 2 weeks later, W calls me after dropping off S5 at school. She sounds very sad & tired - asks if I can watch S3 because her L has requested a sudden visit (W always gave me 2 days notice of her L appointments). The next day, savings account is almost empty. W withdrew $7000. I notify my L. They call her L. Her L acknowledges withdrawal, demands it be put in escrow. My L says let's acquiesce, says we need to pick our battles. I agree.

June, 2017 - My L drafts letter of agreement for her L - stating only amount of tax return and that it will be kept in escrow by her until further notice - that's all. Sent and no reply. Phone calls and emails to her office go un-returned for 2 weeks. My L finally files a petition in court, by refusing to acknowledge written escrow arrangement, W violated court order from October. Her L files a reply, denying everything.

Her L files petition for me to get a job for the 2nd time. Also files "Claims of Dissipation" against me, basically accusing me of hiding / stealing / sequestering money. The charges are clearly lifted from another client or just made up. All sorts of crazy claims - I have 2 cars, a motorcycle, a timeshare condo. I failed to pay off her car (car is in my name and W doesn't drive), I hid money to pay for 7 different vacations I never took. Claim also says we separated in March, 2010 - we're still legally married! At the end of 3 pages worth of lies is my W's signature - did she sign this without reading it?

My L refutes all claims in court. Her L admits there are many errors and withdraws the claim. Judge rules against my W, requests Financial Affidavits from both of us. Mine is finished, W has yet to submit one.

During this time, I found a check made out to my W for $2765. Payer on check is L's office but office has no address printed! Memo field reads Remainder of 7000, 4235 already paid to [L's initials]. I think W stole tax return at L's command to pay her. Did her L give a remainder back as some kind of bonus? Maybe with instructions not to cash it until D is final (check is undated).

I send check to my L. They send it back with instructions to return it to W, says the check falls under attorney/client privilege. I expected this, just sent it to them to see what they'd say. I don't know if I want to give her the check back, she hasn't noticed yet that it's missing. If she confronts me about it, she has to admit the check exists in the first place.

July, 2017 - I receive notification from one of my creditors that her L subpoeana'd them back in March. The creditor didn't process this until end of June. I forward paperwork to my L. My L says nothing to worry - her L couldn't subpoena any creditors without submitting a Financial Affidavit first. She also says the same thing is true of the "Interrogatories" and "Notice To Produce" forms sent last November. She also said those forms shouldn't have been sent directly to me in the first place.

I don't know if W's lawyer is truly incompetent or a sick, clever genius. It appears as if she's made mistake after mistake, or is this all a ploy to wear me down?

My L is detailed, takes time to explain everything and makes sure I approve of everything first, but she won't commit to saying anything she can't prove in court - even off the record. She won't interpret anything other than the document itself.

I am thinking too much about all of this.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Aug 2016
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Brubeck,

Don't think you're overthinking it and good to see you've got a good summary of events recorded for reference -even if just here on the forum.

IMHO, your W's L sounds inept but you also have to remember who's steering/driving many of the L's actions, an MLCer!

I have encountered numerous L & court docs over the last year and the supporting info & statements given by W is almost farcical. My W raised a court order because I wouldn't leave the house when she demanded it. It had a supporting 26 point witness statement that hardly had anything factual in it at all. Events described within this document merged into one another, were exaggerated, timelines were skewed, there were incorrect or missing dates and at least two points contradicted each other. Of course, no mention of her inappropriate relationship. I still to this day can't believe someone at the court didn't read this through and say to her 'Do you really want to submit this?'

I believe you are handling the D/legal situation well and your L seems to be on top of their game.


Me 50, ExW 49
T21, M13+
S15, S13
BD #1: 25-Jan-2016 (EA confirmed & ILYBINILWY)
Sept-2016 Mediated Sep. starts
Oct-2016 W petitions for D
Jan-2017 R w OM admitted/confirmed
Jun-2018 D'd
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I want to journal this also cause it's just something I realized, that W has really detached from her own relatives.

When I think my sitch reaches a plateau - she changes, or I realize something else about her MLC or myself.

I remember early last year (about 2 months after BD) when I first discovered she was in MLC. She accused me of "abandoning" her during one of her very first spews. I did a web search on "abandonment issues" and "confronting your mortality". I read all about MLC, I found DB and finally got my hands on heavy MLC information.

At the time, she only matched out 1/4 of the MLC checklist. I knew about OM but thought it was just an EA instead of a PA. All the other stuff hadn't flourished yet, and damn it did - overspending, detaching, staying out, new friends, crazy exercise, filing for D, ignoring the kids, etc. A year and half later - I don't recognize this person. She is someone spilling over with enormous selfishness, anger and cruelty who has done things I never thought her capable of. Images from her cell phone make her smile more than her children do.

I only realized about a month ago that she's detached from her own relatives. I feel so silly for not noticing sooner. I suppose it's because I've stayed in relatively decent contact with a few of her cousins myself.

Her cousins and their children are the same age as us. There is a birthday party almost every month. I just realized we have not been to any family gatherings in a year and a half. At the last party she attended, W sat at the dining room table and talked to one person all night. Six months later, we made our annual Halloween trip to a pumpkin farm. At the last minute, she decided to stay home and I took the boys without her - to spend the day with her relatives.

That was the last time we visited with any of her relatives. We have not been to any family birthday parties in 2017. Those parties are typically organized by the wives via Facebook. I don't know if she ignored the invite, declined, or was not invited. Her relatives know she filed for D.

What detachment I've been able to accomplish for myself has allowed me to step back and also see just how incredibly damaged both of her sisters are. I read on someone's thread that their spouse and a few of their siblings are all in MLC. I can't say that my W's sisters are in MLC, but they are definitely messed up.

I've never sensed any bond between W and her sisters, or between the sisters and their mother. They were friendly with each other, but there was a formality present - they socialized like co-workers. I wondered for years about it, but I never asked W. I assumed some family structures are like that, even though I always got a great vibe amongst her other relatives who were more like my own family (minus the wine and bad language).

Big sis is the Alpha-type. Big money in real estate, huge house with all the status symbols. Beginning in her mid-30s, she developed a drinking problem. She's been lost deep in alcoholism for 15 years now but hiding the problem like a pro beneath a fancy wardrobe and great social skills. She racked up drunk driving arrests, hospitalizations, loss of business, etc. Then she got cancer - stayed sober through it and beat it in less than a year - and then resumed her drinking.

She got her drivers license revoked. Her H cut off the money and took away the car keys. She found ways to have wine delivered to the house using a gasoline (credit) card. Big sis is passed out drunk most days by 3 pm - her 2 teenage kids would step in and help her keep it together while H was gone most of the time managing their business. She tries to go sober and crashes every couple of months.

Apparently her H is waiting another year for the younger child to graduate HS and leave for college before he files for D and sells the house.

The phone calls that W gets from big sis are usually "I'm drinking again", and pre-BD W would seem remorseful about the sitch big sis was in. After BD, she would still take these calls and offer sympathy and then complain afterwards about her neediness. The most recent call from Big Sis was the same deal, she's drinking again and thinks her H is going to file for D any day now. W offered her all sorts of support about how they're both in the same boat and they're going to be get through these D's together. Afterwards, W makes a call complaining all over again how Big Sis needs to "grow up and get over it already".

Big sis came to visit about two months ago. She's bone thin but is starting to get that bloated, wrinkled face that long-time alcoholics get.

Middle sis is worse off than Big sis or my W - an incredibly angry and selfish woman who only calls you when she wants something. She is always starting "something new", and she never completes any of it. She's still bouncing around from one entry level part time job to another in her late 40s. I can't imagine the number of unfinished arts & crafts projects stuffed in her closets.

Middle sis got a D a few years ago. She tried to launch her own clothing store and it started to fail right away, so she had an A. She and her H eventually re-married, but things aren't the same between them. He was friendly & sociable before her A, but since they got back together he has become far more reserved and even a bit cold. I think he reconciled just for the kids.

Years ago, W made clear that the physical abuse she received as a child was equally doled out to her by her mother and middle sis. W said middle sis was always mad about something and sometimes would literally use my W as a punching bag to get the aggression out. As long as I've known my W, she has always avoided middle sis, because she only wants favors and offers little in return. You would only be invited to her house on an occasion where you're expected to bring a gift.

I never really stood back to look at them until a month ago. I just never evaluated them through their flaws, because we all have them. Only now do I see how W's sisters are struggling just as badly as her, albeit in different ways. They all seem to be hanging on by their fingernails. Middle sis has probably never known anything else and has made a life of it.

Middle sis is 8 years older than my W, and Big sis is 10 years older, so I guess because of the age differences, they got affected in different ways. I don't know if middle sis or big sis had to deal with the verbal, physical and sexual abuse that my W received.

I can't imagine the things they had to deal with growing up with such a brutal, angry drunk of a mother. No money, sometime little food, no father, always moving house, not much personal space - cramped in with relatives, mother is always away at work or partying and she's bringing home the wrong kind of men (including the man who sexually abused W). In their family photos, their mother is seldom smiling, looks angry most of the time. They are clearly all trying to survive something, what it was I don't know.

I know I'm supposed to be talking about GALing or venting frustration about understanding MLC behaviors, but this is just the stuff I need to say to help me keep going. STFU smoothies are getting hard to drink with all the spewing W does at me and the kids.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Nov 2016
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Brubeck,

As someone who doesn't walk in your shoes but am reading this post, let me say out loud: this is not about you. It's just so sad and tragic for her, for you, for your kids. This is the epitome of you didn't break her so you can't fix her. It seems like abuse plays so prominently in so many of these stories. It breaks my heart.

Also, I hope you get the help you need too as this has clearly shaken you to your core. Remember that this is not about you. She didn't deserve what happened to her. You don't deserve what is happening to you. Question is how do we heal from this and make life better for ourselves and our children?

Gordie


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 169
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Well one day I hope I can look back at all this and ask myself how did I make it through? This crap just goes on and on.

The Sept. 5th court date regarding the tax return W stole from our joint account has been delayed. The judge is going out of town and rescheduled it for Oct. 10th.

Of course that doesn't stop W from accusing me of dragging this D out because I won't go into a marital settlement right now. With the court date on the tax return money she took, I'd rather wait to see what the judge has to say about all this, and so would my lawyers. Especially since the judge ruled initially in my favor and ordered both of us to fill out financial affidavits as a result of her stealing the money.

The financial affidavits were supposed to be swapped between both parties on July 12th. We sent mine to W's lawyer on July 14th. We didn't receive theirs until August 12th. Her financial affidavit looks thrown together like all the other litigation her L has created, and the affidavit is full of inaccuracies. I made sure my affidavit was accurate right down to the cent, and I have all the paperwork to verify any of it. I can only hope the judge will recognize this.

MLC is a rollercoaster. I see W trying to improve things with the kids while she fails elsewhere with them. She's showering them with sweets on an almost daily basis, but still going Monster on them and spewing in a heartbeat when it comes to housecleaning. This is what her mother was like, obsessed over appearances and making sure the house is immaculate at all times.

W is trying to be more affectionate with the boys, but she's still not interested in them. Birthdays for our older and youngest came and went, and she did a lot to bake sweets, and make decorations. She made an elaborate 2 tier chocolate cake for S3's birthday. When it came time to sing happy birthday to S3, she didn't bother to get up from the bed. She just laid there watching some show on her phone.

Is there some link between MLC and nostalgia (or days gone by)? W has been talking incessantly with people about grade school or high school. Making tallies of who's-doing-what-now and how people seem now on Facebook compared to who they were in childhood. A couple of weeks ago Real Friend #1 was visiting and W was sharing all these photos off her phone from grade school and doing a lot of "Remember When" and "Remember Them" discussing. Real Friend #1 couldn't match her enthusiasm.

I am getting busier at the new job and I am being kind of cautious because I know there are lots of rules in place and I don't want to step on anyone else's toes. I am working and following the rules but treading lightly. It will be about 2 months since I've joined. I'm going to be the new guy for a while.

I am feeling very beat up. I am exhausted. I am only getting 6 hours of sleep a night these days. W sleeps in with the kids until God Knows When because they're on summer break. I am up til midnight trying to calm them down and get them to sleep, but they are jumping off the walls because they've slept in. I'm doing it alone because W is already gone by 9 pm or sooner to hit the gym or go someplace with her MLC friends.

My L sent her L my proposal for child custody arrangement. I asked to have the kids every other weekend (Friday night to Sunday night) and to see them every Tuesday and Thursday from 6 PM until 8:30 PM. This is a standard variation on custody arrangements in Illinois.

My L sent the arrangement on a Monday morning. W came to me that evening to ask if we could discuss the arrangement.

She sounded very tired and a little monotone, and it's the closest that's sounded friendly from her in a very long time. She asked "You don't want the kids to spend the night with you on Tuesday and Thursday?"

I paused. Part of my mirror work is trying not to defend myself so much, and being okay with not having all the answers right away. I would digest this question later, but for the moment I said - "I don't know what my living arrangement is going to be like."

She asked "Have you started looking for a place yet?" but didn't wait for an answer. She just started rambling about spending time with the kids. I mentioned that I'm due at the office the exact same time the boys start school. She suggested I bring them home in the morning. I just repeated that I didn't know what my living situation would be like.

I want to be with my children as much as possible, but I don't know what kind of situation I will be in. I don't know how much work this will be.

OK - It's mind reading on my part, but I've been warning myself to expect W to backslide on her commitment to whatever custody agreement we arrived at. I see what condition W is in, and I don't think she can handle taking care of the boys for any sustained period of time. She is physically absent for part of each day, and when she's here, she is never fully engaged in the boys, except when Monster is angry at them for messing the house.

I wasn't expecting her to backslide on the actual arrangement itself. She's asking me to keep them 50% of the time while she still keeps 32% of my income in child support.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
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Originally Posted By: Brubeck

I wasn't expecting her to backslide on the actual arrangement itself. She's asking me to keep them 50% of the time while she still keeps 32% of my income in child support.


Hi Brubeck
TBH, this doesn't surprise me. The MLCr has an idea of how the D is going to go and what's going to happen and is frequently surprised when we don't follow their script/pre-conceived notion.

I had several examples of that during our divorce mediation. They all left me scratching my head.

It seems from what I've read and what I've experienced that they think they're going to have everything go their way and are often surprised when it doesn't.

I know you're tired. I know you're beat up. I'm sorry this is happening and you can't get a decent night's sleep. It won't always be this way. Hang in there. You're going through the worst of it right now.

xoxoxoxo {{{{{Brubeck}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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