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(((Sara)))

Sigh. I don't even know what to say. I fear saying the wrong thing, because while our sitches are similar, our Hs are quite different. I do know that I personally have very much needed to see remorse, regret, and accountability to begin the forgiveness process. For me it as been a long and complicated process. I have been fortunate that I have had that from him and that H has been consistent over time. In a way it is what keeps me hopeful.

I don't want to suggest that your H should do the same because I am sure there are dynamics in our Ms that are different. I also agree that forgiveness does come from within us. Because even though my H has demonstrated "true remorse," I have still struggled. A lot. There is not a direct proportion between the level of remorse he shows with my ability to forgive. Does that make sense? I think for me to achieve a level of forgiveness that I can live with, I have to make some internal shifts in my perspective and also simply make the choice to do so. I am not sure if that helps at all. I def sympathize with your struggles!

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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PsySara Offline OP
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So a little update. I've been walking around seething inside, mind movies keep tumbling around. Meanwhile WH keeps being attentive and kind. Last night I mentioned I may have to get back on Remeron (AD that stops nightmares) and he stood very still and then asked, "Are you having nightmares about me again?" I confirmed and said obviously I still had a lot to work through. HE looked devastated and said it was obvious to him that I had PTSD secondary to the affair. He looked so sad and gently joked if I needed to wake up and choke him in the middle of the night then please feel free.

Something interesting happened inside me then, something kind of...relaxed. I think I am starting to see WH understand how far reaching his poor choices have rippled. For some odd reason that has helped me heal a teeny tiny bit. I still struggle with irritability and anger towards him but at least I am not as reactive as I used to be. DB has definitely helped me with anger management.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Lovely Sara, I feel like I need to go back and catch up with what has gone on over the last few months.

It's hard not to feel some kind of anger or resentment towards the WH for their actions and how it has affected others. Especially when seemingly they are alright. Like I say, I need to go back and see what has gone on, but I just want to say to you to keep your focus on you. You got yourself so strong and sure of yourself but then he drags you back to the beginning. It looks as though you are still on two different pathways. With regards to the affair, he will pay for it, when it comes to the day of judgement we will all be accountable for our actions. But right now, you focus on you and loving yourself. Let me be the influence to you loving you, get out there and get those highlights done, or those eyebrows threaded- buy those cute panties from Victoria secrets, or the lipstick that makes you feel confident. Whatever it takes to show yourself some true love, DO IT. You deserve it


Me 26 H 25
M 4
T 5
Baby born 4/14
BD: 1/15
EA: 2/15
PA: 4/15
reconciling: 4/15
ILYBINILWY- 11/15
ILY-1/16
ILYBNILWY 4/16
ILY 6/16
ILYBINILWY 6/16
Baby due 3/17
BD 8/16
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Sara, would you take a look at WhyWhy's thread and see if you can advise him what to do about his W's tantrums? Thanks


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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PsySara Offline OP
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Hey friends, stopping by just for some updates.

Last week I broke down and told WH the struggles I was having with triggers. Initially he shut down and stopped talking to me. I went out for a drive and decided to use my angry time for grocery shopping, getting my car cleaned and then picking up some lunch for WH and the kids. I brought it home and started to feed the kids and then eating my lunch. WH sat next to me and started telling me how he is really struggling with his feelings of guilt. My anger makes him want to run away but he acknowledges I am entitled to my anger and rage.

He said he knows I feel neglected and he realizes I have made huge changes in my self. He knows I am doing all the heavy lifting and have become fatigued. He said he was extremely grateful for all my work running the house and doing the majority of the child care while he is studying for his board certification. He told me he was seriously considering taking us to Colorado after his test (next week) and having the intensive appointment with MWD. At this point I was completely stunned as he has acted allergic to anything connected with reconciliation with someone helping us. Since that talk things have changes immensely between us.

He approaches me and asks repeatedly if I am ok, if we need to talk. He sometimes looks so sad when he sees me laughing and acting like my old self. It seems he is realizing how much the affair affected me and broke me. I have very little memory about my last born during my postpartum period. I struggled to bond with the baby that he had asked for but then cheated while I was pregnant. His treatment towards me postpartum was really atrocious and borderline abusive. It took a very long time and lots of self help books (with the sprinkling of IC) for me to find myself again. WH sees the return of the confident and strong Sara and he has to face how close he came to losing me in more than one manner. And it's overwhelming him. I catch him gazing at me for long periods of times and his eyes are soft. More tellingly he tells me he loves me quite often. This was something he rarely did during our marriage from the beginning. The man I married is finding his way back to me, I think.

The secret to DBing (and it's not really a secret) is learning detachment. I am still working towards this but have come a long way from the reactive, heart broken pathetic person following the first bomb drop. My best times are when I force myself out of the house and hang out with friends. Also calling someone on the phone and just gabbing about day-to-day stuff provides a relief from my inner musings that can devolve into useless naval gazing. I did try going to the gym and other GAL activities that fellow board members tried and it didn't stick with me. My GAL activities tend to be more cerebral like watching a tv series, reading fiction (usually Sci-Fi or fantasy) and surfing the net. I had to find what worked for me and toss the rest. I took a page from Cherry's book and started getting my hair done professionally every 2 weeks, dressing more attractive and occasionally getting botox on my crows-feet. This made a world of difference for my self-esteem.

Whether your SO is a Walk-away, a MLCer or whatever label fits, the devastation of being told you don't really matter can do immense damage. It turns everything you believe on it's head and can cause you to question your own sanity. But there is a end to the pain, and it can result in a deep happiness and peace if you learn detachment. If you've come to this board it's probably because you tried all the other techniques and it wasn't optimal. You may feel desperate and maybe a little hopeless but there CAN be a change, a good change! This is a marathon not a sprint. You MUST self care during this marathon or you will drop from mental fatigue. Hang in their, friends, this too shall pass.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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I think we all get a bit of PTSD, don't we? And weird things can trigger us. Finding our own way to manage that - whatever happens with our Ms - is our own marathon, I suppose.

read somewhere about the idea of 'layering'...that you find a way to put new happy stuff on top of a thing or place that triggers you, rather than avoid it? Like inviting good friends to a drinken dinner at what used to be 'your' favourite restaurant.

Me..I'm going to hunt for happy triggers!


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Hey Sara,

How are things going? Just thinking about you.


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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PsySara Offline OP
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Tresur,
I definitely have the trademark signs of PTSD. I really resent WH for sending me back years in my recovery from childhood PTSD. Up until his affair I was very healthy psychologically speaking. Now I am triggered constantly as I am a mental health provider and see oodles of victims of infidelity. It has been a Herculean effort to compartmentalize my own trauma when I have patients going through their own fresh Ddays. I work daily on mindfulness and trying to be present in the "now." It's an effort but has become easier since practicing it so often.

Leah,
Things are kind of bumbling along. WH makes noises about wanting to help me heal but then does nothing. He asks me what I need and I tell him in clear terms. And he does nothing. I think constantly about filing but then read about households where the kids basically go to hell in a hand basket as they are usually casualties of divorce. I am p*ssed that my options are to disintegrate their security or stay with a man I feel has done nothing to rebuild trust. I wonder what MWD would say about my situation? Technically my WAH returned home, he's moved back and settled into being a dad again. But there is this...empty spot inside me now. It's a spot that used to be filled by my love for him, my unshakable belief that WH would always be my protector and my knight. But he turned out like all the others who hurt me and abandoned me at my weakest time.

I don't post about this usually but I had a crap childhood. My mother is on her 5th marriage. She had a tendency to marry guys who used her kids as punching bags. She's committed credit card fraud in my name, abuses prescription narcotics and is constantly on the verge of being homeless. I can't count how many times we moved while I was growing up, how many schools I attended, how many times the lights were cut or there wasn't enough food in the house. One of my dreams growing up was to give my children stability, a two parent home and to show them how a married couple should be. Now I feel like that dream has been stolen. I read about how people recover from infidelity and their marriages are better and stronger than before. Then I wonder, why not me? Why hasn't this started to happen? Rather I feel like I am just counting the days with a guy who had no problem cheating on me while pregnant with our baby. Even now he says, "You were different then." As if that excuses him cheating, he still doesn't feel like something is wrong with him, that he needs to change from the man who could deceive and betray his trusting wife.

So I spin my wheels when I am alone. I feel my heart beating too quickly and that reminds me that I have permanent heart damage from his betrayal. He literally broke my heart. I've been to 2 different IC and their suggestion is "Leave him, start over." I challenged them about the statistics surrounding children of divorce and they give platitudes. One said how kids "Like having two homes to go to." I rolled my eyes, I've been in split custody and it [censored], carrying your belongings back and forth like a homeless person. I have the permanent results of contracting an STD from my WH because he couldn't be bothered to use condoms even though they had bought some. What do I do with this rage???? Maybe something is wrong with me. Maybe I ended up repeating a shadow of my mother's poor choices. I thought waiting three years to marry a guy would give me a chance to finesse out the "faults" and see if I could live with them. He did have his selfish moments but I NEVER thought he was capable of the cruelty he showed me on dday and afterward. What if I am not strong enough to rebuild this marriage? At what point do I cut bait and pray my children will turn out okay in spite of coming from a broken home?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 791
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PsySara Offline OP
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I'm really struggling right now. It's been almost 2 years since d-day #1 and 14 months since d-day #2 and I see no real growth from WH. He still isn't seeking IC, reading any books, really delving into what made him thinking cheating was an option. Now whenever we get in any disagreement I find myself fantasizing about divorcing. I just don't see how staying with a remorseless person is really helping me. The kids are happy and love their dad and that is the ONLY thing keeping me from pulling the trigger. But it's coming at a huge cost to my health. The nightmares persist and I am still hyper vigilant about his cell phone. I am angry constantly by his inertia. The rare times we do discuss the affair he comes back to "Well you were different then." As if that justifies his atrocious behavior and his reason for not working on himself.

I've read DR, I've read MWD about healing from infidelity and there is no chapter about a returning spouse who has no desire to make up for what he/she did. I had 11 sessions with my coach and mostly we focused on me and how to forward my own growth. But there was nothing about how to deal with a remorseless spouse. Maybe there is no map for this? Maybe it's just doomed to divorce. If WH is a narcissist (which both MC felt WH met criteria) then I am screwed. Narcissists don't get better because they lack the depth to see any problem in their selves, they simply make everything about external locus of control. WH still mostly leaves all the day-to-day child care in my court, all of the household chores and if we go on any trips it falls on me to plan. I don't feel like this a partnership but rather I am the ONLY real person who cares about the upkeep and forward movement in this marriage.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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It's true, the WAS who returns home usually can't deal with the pain they've caused and would like the whole thing to just be swept under the rug. It's also true that the anger that the LBS has kept suppressed for so long in the interest of DBing can start to surface once the spouse is back.

My ex and I had a successful DB reconciliation after his affair about 16 years into our marriage. (I do remember, though, during that first year back, occasionally screaming "I want a divorce" when driving alone in my car). We had several very good years and then he spiraled back into MLC (and his narcissism) and left for good. I felt at the time of that first reconciliation that it was really important for my kids (preteens and early teens at the time). But what I didn't find out until after he left was that even when things were good during the reconciliation, the kids were always waiting for the other shoe to drop. In reality, it may not have been the best thing for my kids for me to have reconciled that first time. They lived with daily uncertainty.

If your ex had never left, that would be one thing - kids who were never aware there was any problem might benefit from never knowing. But given that they already know that dad leaving is a possibility - a rocky reconciliation may not be better for them than a stable divorce.

There's no good answer. But you're not wrong to expect more from your H in terms of making things up to you.

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