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Originally Posted By: Dude127
Thanks for the reply Tread,

I've read the detachment thread and I guess my biggest question is what does that look like in my sitch? What are some practical steps to take from what I'm doing now to what I should be doing without of course being a jerk.

One thing I've also noticed about myself is that when I'm at work and away from her it's so easy to be angry and want to detach. But when I'm with her and she throws me a bone (hug, kiss, cuddle) I cave. Then of course later, she goes right back to talking to him and I feel like such a door mat.


Dude I know it's difficult but you must find your way to detach. It will feel counter productive. I think one of the best descriptions describes treating her like a stranger. You don't have to be a jerk to advantages, but you don't hug or cuddle with them either.
We all have patterns and you kind of know what to expect in the mornings and evenings. Figure out how you would respond if you barely knew the person (Which I'm sure you feel).
These adjustments will get noticed and you will see it. This is the selfish mind of a petulant child. Be kind but you are not her H or boyfriend at this point. Don't treat her like you are. She will try things to self-assure that you, her plan B, is still hanging on.
Don't play into it.
Don't let her think that she can make up her mind and if she chooses you, that you be right there waiting.
Find your balls.

It's your choice and she will be lucky if you don't kick her and her betrayal ways to the curb. You can't tell her this, but you can help her reach that conclusion on her own.


M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

kml #2756715 08/16/17 08:36 AM
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Dude127 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: kml
Just a few comments from an oldtimer:
1)
Quote:
She often tells me that I should just "let her go" and that "I deserve better".
When they tell you who they are believe them.

2)
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and then she tells me she isn't feeling well and she goes to the other room and chats with the OM.

Nope. Ground rules if she's going to stay in the house is no contact with OM, at least while you are there. If she can't stick to that, she needs to move home to her parents. Right now she's having her cake and eating it too. She needs a dose of reality.

3)
Quote:
She is a stay at home mom and is completely dependent on me financially.
I understand this, but if it turns out to be OMs child, he should be contributing. BTW, are you sure it's 50:50? Have you done the math, do you know the OB's exact prediction of date of conception? No, it's not an exact science, but depending on how long she was away and how soon before/after her trip you had sex, you may be able to reach a better prediction. Is she hiding that data from you perhaps?

4) Why aren't you guys in marriage counseling right now?

5)
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Also, right now, we're paycheck to paycheck.
What can you do to change this? Is this due to debt, living above your means, or poor job? Whether she stays and you have another child, or she goes and you have to pay child support and possibly alimony, you are going to need more money. What can you do today to earn more or spend less? Although I don't like his politics, the Dave Ramsey Show is a good place to start to get a handle on your finances. Also, be careful - this kind of turmoil at home often translates into poor job performance, just when you really need your job. Don't let it affect you at work.

6) Have you thought through your options if it's not your biological child? I have seen some men here make the decision to raise it as their own - I admire them, but that's not an easy decision and many would not be able to make it. IF you do NOT think you would want to raise the OMs child, you should seek a Non-invasive paternity test, which can be done by a blood draw anytime after 8 weeks. Also, look into the laws in your state, because you will be legally presumed to be the father and to be financially responsible for this child unless you take certain steps, different in different states.

7) The big questions boil down to these: Is she more likely to return to the marriage if you just give her room and show her your changes, or if you take her at her word and encourage her to move to her parents (where she will have to start thinking about the reality of her choices rather than the fantasy?). Every situation is different, but given her unrepentant attitude, I vote for the second.

Do you WANT her back if it's not your biological child?

8) What do you think you need to fix about yourself? I'm not saying this is your fault - it's probably not - but that doesn't mean we are all perfect marriage partners. The one thing we CAN control is ourselves, and this is, oddly enough, a great time for personal growth and self-examination, which will serve you well in this relationship or another.

9)If she moves home to her parents, consider taking a roommate to help your finances.

10) Were there red flags in the past that you ignored about her? Very important question, as recognizing them may help you avoid similar situations in the future if you end up divorced.

kml #2756717 08/16/17 08:37 AM
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I appreciate all the responses. In particular, thanks kml for putting all the effort in. I'll respond to you by each of your points.

1.) Not sure what you're getting at here. I feel like I'm misreading/misunderstanding.

2.) I really feel like this is a good idea. It seems like a reasonable request. My question on this would be, I can track calls, but I can't track messages. Do I just ask for her word on this? Also, I can't legally force her out. Should I just say, "If you feel you can't do this then, you SHOULD move out?" It almost seems "toothless" if that makes sense. Also, I would want my D to stay with me but daycare while I'm at work would be a pretty large expense that I don't think I could afford.

3.) After a tv ultrasound it looks like this is more in my favor rather than 50/50. Probably more like 75/25. But there is definitely still a chance.

4.) We're not in marriage counseling right now because she stopped attending. She felt it was pointless to go because she's still in the same spot of indecision. We went twice after the trip, and then I went once when she stopped going.

5.) You are definitely right about this. I'm familiar with Dave Ramsey. Definitely need to stop spending so much and increase our income.

6.) If my W decided to stay and I was not the biological Father I would raise the child.

7.) I think where I'm at right now with this question is that I want to give her some more time in terms of giving her space and letting her see the changes. In terms of how I do that, I definitely think I need a lot more guidance. However, eventually I know I do need to say enough is enough and tell her that she can't sit on the fence forever.

8.) There are definitely a few things about myself that I want to change. For this relationship or the next. I guess in a broad stroke I consider myself to kind of be a bit of slob. I'm usually really lazy about picking up after myself, cleaning my own dishes, and getting things done around the house when they need to get done. I guess I'm trying to take this as an opportunity to do all the things I wish I would do, but have been too lazy to accomplish. A few other things include, paying more attention to my appearance and being more responsible with money. And lastly, and most importantly, spending time with my D. Trying to be more intentional with the time that I do spend with her which is also a little easier now that she is 2.

9.) Interesting. Never considered this.

10.) There were definitely red flags. She's always told me that she has an easier time making guy friends than girl friends. When we were first married she had a guy friend that I never really suspected anything about and just kind of assumed the best about her. 3 years ago she ended a separate EA that I felt like I probably should have paid more attention to. When I stumbled across some texts I told her that it was unacceptable and that she must stop. She apologized and then stopped. She tried to keep him as a friend but I also said it was unacceptable and she ended the friendship. Even currently she has a couple pretty close online guy friends. I feel like she doesn't know how to set boundaries in her guy friend relationships. I definitely feel like if she does decide to come back to the M then this will need to be one of the first issues we tackle.

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Quote:
1)
Quote:
She often tells me that I should just "let her go" and that "I deserve better".
When they tell you who they are believe them.

Quote:
1.) Not sure what you're getting at here. I feel like I'm misreading/misunderstanding.

Odds are, you DO DESERVE BETTER and you should just let her go. If she's telling you she's not good enough for you, she's probably not.

Quote:
My question on this would be, I can track calls, but I can't track messages. Do I just ask for her word on this? Also, I can't legally force her out. Should I just say, "If you feel you can't do this then, you SHOULD move out?" It almost seems "toothless" if that makes sense.


You could ask her for her word. Some on here have installed keystroke loggers on the computer but I don't recommend it - some things you're better off not reading or seeing. You may not be able to legally force her out but it seems entirely reasonable to say "if you're continuing to carry on your affair you can't stay here with me, please move back to your parents." She probably would, or else would start putting in a little more effort. One thing, I can guarantee she's not respecting you being a doormat right now. The only benefit to keeping her in the house is to demonstrate your changes, such as not being a slob and being a better father. Once she's seen enough of that though, it may be better for her to go and have to deal with reality - get a taste of what the consequences of her continued behavior would be. Talk to an attorney first though to see if there is any downside to requesting her to move out.

Quote:
4.) We're not in marriage counseling right now because she stopped attending. She felt it was pointless to go because she's still in the same spot of indecision. We went twice after the trip, and then I went once when she stopped going.


Then right now she has no intention of saving the marriage. Another point in favor of sending her home to her parents and letting her get a taste of reality. She's more likely to come back to the marriage once she sees what real life would be like - right now you can't compete with her fantasy life.

Quote:
6.) If my W decided to stay and I was not the biological Father I would raise the child.


If you are SURE of this, then I would argue against doing the genetic testing. DO think it through thoroughly though. Would you be able to see this child everyday and not find yourself thinking about who the father was? If the child obviously looked like him, could you treat it the same way as your own child? Would you live in fear of the biological father filing for visitation and being a constant presence in your life? How would the child feel if they knew they were the product of an affair and how would that affect their relationship with you? (Secrets have a way of getting out)

(Now - all that being said - I have a Swedish friend. Although she's weirdly Teutonic as some Swedes can be, she's otherwise pretty normal. She discovered as an adult that the "family friend" who used to attend some family gatherings was actually her biological father. She took it surprisingly well - but that could be her nature.)

Quote:
10.) There were definitely red flags. She's always told me that she has an easier time making guy friends than girl friends. When we were first married she had a guy friend that I never really suspected anything about and just kind of assumed the best about her. 3 years ago she ended a separate EA that I felt like I probably should have paid more attention to. When I stumbled across some texts I told her that it was unacceptable and that she must stop. She apologized and then stopped. She tried to keep him as a friend but I also said it was unacceptable and she ended the friendship. Even currently she has a couple pretty close online guy friends. I feel like she doesn't know how to set boundaries in her guy friend relationships. I definitely feel like if she does decide to come back to the M then this will need to be one of the first issues we tackle.


Okay , so she's already cheated on you once before. Make no mistake about it, an EA is cheating, even if they never had sex (and usually they lie about whether they had sex). So she's a serial cheater - do you REALLY want to keep her in your life?
Let me tell you my story. My ex cheated the night before our wedding. I found out 6 months later. I tried to throw him out but he wouldn't leave. We reconciled and I put it down to youthful wedding jitters. Several years later when I was 9 mos pregnant with our second child, I received a phone call from that woman's husband - did I know that they were planning to meet up when my ex was out of town on a business trip, and was I ok with that? (No I was not!!!) He also informed me that she had gotten pregnant from their one night stand and had an abortion while we were on our honeymoon.
Again, we reconciled - I thought we were good. All our friends thought we had a strong marriage. Then my H had an affair when our kids were pre-teens/early teens. I DBd my patootie off and we reconciled again - but several years later he hit fifty and went off in a cloud of MLC, eventually remarrying a woman 19 years his junior.
My kids have all been badly affected by it - and I realize, my initial decision to risk taking him back, wasn't a risk I took just for me, but a gamble I took for my future children - a gamble they are paying a price for now.

My point being - if she's a serial adulterer who hasn't done the SERIOUS work it would take to fix whatever is her underlying problem - she's likely to repeat again, and later on in your life it may be even more devastating, both to you and your child.

kml #2756731 08/16/17 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: kml
Let me tell you my story.


Thanks for sharing that, that's a tough story, and the point you make about making a bet on behalf of your children is a really good onethat any LBS with a wayward needs to consider, especially one who thinks they're saving the marriage for their kids.


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Hey KML,

Thanks again for all the effort in the responses. Really sorry to hear about your story. That is definitely something to keep in mind. If things start heading toward a reconciliation she would definitely need to address this head on and show some wisdom in this area backed up by actions.

I think right now my game plan is to give her some space so that she can see some changes for the next 2 weeks. She also keeps volunteering information to me regarding her relationship with the OM. Honestly, this could just be to string me along by always talking about their relationship very negatively. In this time I really want to focus on doing my best to detach myself from her. I really want to focus on these forums and hopefully get a hold of the DR books so I can start implementing some tougher love as time passes. I also should probably get myself some legal counsel.

Thanks everyone for all the replies and by all means, keep them coming. I am humbled by your stories and I thank everyone for their opinions and guidance.

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So I finally found a way to safely get a hold of DR by tomorrow without my W finding out. I'm really looking forward to giving it a good read and learning some techniques from the book. Since my last post I've mainly just been trying to spend as much time with my daughter as possible. It's been really nice getting some 1 on 1 time with her recently. This is mainly due to W going through a pretty rough time with the nausea and on top of that she's been super sick. In general, I've been doing my best to just keep my distance and not be a jerk at the same time. Really trying to focus on me, and trying to detach as much as possible. I know that I still have ways to go in this regard, but right now I'm doing my best and I think I'm getting there.

Also, last week she told me she wanted to talk but needed to take care of some things first. This is right before she got super sick. From my perspective, the way she said it, it sounded like she was getting ready to end things with the OM but I know I definitely need to not get my hopes up. It could be that she's throwing me a bone for now and maybe even planning the Big D. Whatever it may be, I told her that she could talk to me whenever she was ready. Until then, I'm not going to talk to her about relationship stuff.

IDK, at the moment it feels like I'm heading in the right direction whatever the outcome may be. Above all, I feel like God has my back in all this. And I'm very thankful for that.

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I've been thinking of some GAL activities. One of them would be church on Wednesday nights. Also, trying to be more active with friends/coworkers with things such as poker night/Saturday morning golf. Also, need to get a few new shirts.

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Dude,

Aren't you Lebowsky? The Dude? Shouldn't you be bowling?

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Originally Posted By: doodler

Aren't you Lebowsky? The Dude? Shouldn't you be bowling?


Lol. Not a bad idea.

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