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I was served divorce papers today. It cites irretrievable breakdown of marriage. I accepted them from the server. My husband is home. I've been calm, watching tv in my room and practicing yoga. He approached me and said that I should just come to an agreement. He seemed, to me, callous and cold about it. I told him I need to educate myself a little more about the process.

There is no OW to the best of my knowledge.

Recently, he has been asking me what I've been up to (I've been going out with friends, family, and myself to places of interest). I'm sad and it seems I should give up. Should I stick with DB? Has anyone come back from a spouse filing?

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Originally Posted By: Cali
\ Should I stick with DB?
Has anyone come back from a spouse filing?

Yes stick with DB
Yes people have recovered their marriages from all
sorts of different positions.


Stick to one thread - some how I lost your previous posts in trying to merge them.

Sorry - please keep posting here until you get to 100 posts on this thread


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Thank you. Any tips for continuing DB after being served divorce papers/ when a spouse is asking about a timeline for making this final would be appreciated. I'm getting advice from a lawyer, with the intension to continue with DB.

I wrote him a letter over the weekend, in the manner advised by Michelle, in which I write what I wish I had done during the marriage without justifying myself/ without expecting a response.

I have not cried, begged, or tried to get him to talk about the relationship since he told me 3 weeks ago that he wants a divorce.

I have a long-term habit of being emotional and crying/ trying to get attention during a conflict or when I'm hurting. I'm focused on changing that and practicing self-care. I'm trying to give space without pulling away totally.

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Cali, keep posting in one thread rather than starting new threads. It's hard for us to keep track of stories when people have multiple threads going.

Originally Posted By: Cali
I've been calm, watching tv in my room and practicing yoga. He approached me and said that I should just come to an agreement. He seemed, to me, callous and cold about it. I told him I need to educate myself a little more about the process.


Great reply! And you should do exactly that.

Quote:
Recently, he has been asking me what I've been up to (I've been going out with friends, family, and myself to places of interest).


Tell him you're doing things for yourself now and leave it at that. Don't share the details with him. He wants you out of his life then he loses his right to know where you are all the time. Mysterious is GOOD, it makes him wonder what you are up to and what he's losing.

Quote:
Has anyone come back from a spouse filing?


Oh yes, all the time. 25 has a statistic that she quotes, I forget what the number is but I want to say it's like 1/3 (?) of all divorces filed in Cali are never followed through on.

People reconcile even after D. I have two friends that did just that. One had a classic WAS, she pushed for a fast D and they sold their business and farm and went their separate way in just a matter of months. A year later she started sending out feelers his way. A year after that they were living together again and they are happier than ever. The other is a similar story, but it was a much longer timeline. He and his ex remarried 8 years after their D.

What is the key to reconciling? Seems like the key is well and truly moving on. Recons rarely happen until the LBS has moved on to a new life. One of life's little ironies.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Cali, one of the things that was important for me to realize is that the things I needed to do to win my wife back were the same things I needed to do if my wife never comes back, like get a life of my own, reconnect with friends, work out, go out and do things I wanted to do but didn't because I was waiting around for her to do them with me. If she comes back, great, but if not, I'll be better off for it.

Two of the things that's helped me realize is that I wasn't the best husband I could have been, but also that she was a pretty terrible wife, and if she ever does want to get back together, unless she's willing to work on some issues of her own, I'm not really interested.

Some more background would also be helpful.


M:23 T:26
Me:53, Wife: 60
S:18
D:16
filed 7/16
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Thank you for some insights. I went out to an event last evening with my sister, something I'd been looking forward to. I arrived home around 10:30. I was feeling happy as I'd had a fun evening at a museum. I said a cheery "hi" to my husband and he said hi back, then I went on my way to get ready for bed. He said "I though you were maybe staying out all night". I got comfy and started doing some art in my journal in the living room. We were both calm in the home.

My husband went into his room shorty after I came home, and I believe he locked the door. I'm feeling unsure as to why he did this, as I have not been following him around the house or going into his room. I'm trying to remain hopeful and to keep my positive changes going.

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For a relatively new poster, you have made lots of great moves (giving space, doing GALs, etc)

Originally Posted By: Cali
I'm feeling unsure as to why he did this


But this is one part that is tough to do: don't try to divine any of his reactions right now. They have little do do with where you are and where you are going.

Question: Have you actually started reading DR or DB?


Me: 43
M: 10y
S:15
ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
W moved out 2/18/13
Filed for D: 2/17/13
Got DB: 2/20/13
Got DR: 2/23/13
180 & LRT Began: 2/25/13
D Final Dec '13
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You seem to be doing quite well so far. Don't allow him to rush you. Always maintain a certain level of control in the situayion.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
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Originally Posted By: Cali
I believe he locked the door. I'm feeling unsure as to why he did this


It doesn't matter why. So he locked the door? It has nothing to do with you.

Good for you for going out with your sister. It will give him something to think about.


M:23 T:26
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Thank you. I've been reading DR and re-reading parts of it to keep focused.

I'm going to consult with a lawyer. H already hired one. He was initially very frustrated that I wanted to consult a lawyer before putting up the house for sale. He had hoped for a lawyer-free divorce. He assumed that by wanting legal advice, I would want to litigate. I agree with him that I don't want litigation. I have not been debating with him. I know mediation is a thing. I'd like to be as collaborative as possible with him while working with a lawyer, especially since I have DB goals.

He sat near me in the living room about a half hour last evening while I was watching a TV show. He retired to him room shortly after. I understand he may be feeling really crappy. I don't want to assume how he feels or ask him about it; I'm allowing him to have his feelings.

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If he wanted a lawyer-free divorce, he shouldn't've hired one. He won't see it that way, but that's on him. Just because you saw a lawyer doesn't mean you have to litigate. Mitigation is in many ways a better route, as litigation is set up to be an adversarial confrontation, whereas in mediation, you are working together to come to a mutually agreeable solution.

In my case though, mediation devolved into "my lawyer said I could get this much in alimony and child support, so that's the minimum I'll accept," so be careful you don't go down this route, or mediation will be a waste of time and money.

That's good; give him space to have his feelings. Let him sort them out. Don't read too much into it, but sitting near you is not a bad sign.


M:23 T:26
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Thank you. I'm meeting with a lawyer soon to discuss. I let the lawyer know up front that I'm hopeful for reconciliation. I'm thinking that after I have this meeting, H will ask me what he talked about, what I will agree to now, a timeline, etc. I'm focusing on staying calm, letting him share thoughts, but am struggling with thinking about responses when the time comes.

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I received docs from H's lawyer to produce my bank account statements. I'm worried that H will see my purchase of DB's coaching. I know it does not say Divorce Busting (i.e. states as MWD Training Corp or Michele Weiner-Davis), but he could probably look these up and figure it out.

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If he is researching every little purchase, H is not done.

It's when they detach 100% that you are nearing the end.


M 53 W 54, M since 98
D15, D19
8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM
until 10/14
7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR
12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.

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And if they are in MLC/depression, folks aren't good with detail or memory. Wouldn't worry about it. If he asks, you can just say that it is about finding a calm detached way to deal with the sitch.


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Oh, and change your user name or details if you think it makes you too easy to identify?


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Originally Posted By: Cali
I received docs from H's lawyer to produce my bank account statements. I'm worried that H will see my purchase of DB's coaching. I know it does not say Divorce Busting (i.e. states as MWD Training Corp or Michele Weiner-Davis), but he could probably look these up and figure it out.



I would not worry at all about the DB purchase. No judge will see it as an extravagance. I think it'd reflect well on you.

Are you saying your h would then come here, or read into your purchase as a form of pursuit?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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ps


reviewing financial disclosures is something we are all supposed to do in order to divide assets. Look for patterns of withdrawals or unexpected odd purchases to check BS buys, or cash amounts, etc.

This is supposed to be unrelated to wanting/not wanting the D.

We all need to have our eyes open & focus as well as possible for this. It's emotionally too hard for some couples - so they let the L's do it for them. Thats very expensive.

Plus, the LBS knows the WAS more than anyone, and its best we read thru them as carefully as possible.

I found fresh painful discoveries in my h's disclosures.

But if I put my head in the sand and hide from the painful parts, I'd be doing the same thing I did in my marriage! Its part of why I'm here.

This is the most important financial transaction of your life.

It deserves your total focus. Read noting into his choices and everything into the numbers on the pages...

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: Cali
Thank you. I'm meeting with a lawyer soon to discuss. I let the lawyer know up front that I'm hopeful for reconciliation. I'm thinking that after I have this meeting, H will ask me what he talked about, what I will agree to now, a timeline, etc. I'm focusing on staying calm, letting him share thoughts, but am struggling with thinking about responses when the time comes.



Share as little as possible about what your L tells you. Don't be rude, but don't overshare.

When a L says you "can get X" that's not the same as saying you will. And it usually requires a L to get the max b/c NOT getting/giving the max is what mediation is about.

Giving up things on both sides.

I'm a L and not trying to push you towards a Divorce, I'm pro marriage.

(Can't find or recall your original storyline, btw. It would help me a lot).

But when a man says he wants a divorce, preferably a divorce without Lawyers, you are forewarned that he has something he does not want scrutinized.

Also, I detest throwing out the "there must be an A!!" line,

but if you yourself are not denying him intimacy and you were not fighting a lot,

(not now, but before)

and he wants out - and he wants it soon - and he wants no lawyers involved, this all raises the odds that he wants No deep delving into his plans because he has a secret of some type.

I'm sorry to say that, I know it hurts. I filed for divorce not knowing there was an OW, but b/c of other deal breakers.

So Keep your shields up. Arm yourself with knowledge and don't give it all up.

Your h has seen a L and that means HE KNOWS the amount he could have to pay. And now HE is pushing for mediation. He wants to pay you less.

In CA & Texas, where I'm licensed, the tendency is that the higher income earner (who would have to pay spousal support)

is the one to push for mediation. They know the potential they'd have to pay and they want it lowered.

And if there is an A, the higher earner/WAS knows that settling things before the discovery of an affair, is good for THEM.

Sorry if I sound cynical, i don't mean to. I'm basing this on years of experience here and in real life, and as a L who handled a few divorces.

A man who seeks a divorce from a basically good wife, is statistically far more likely to be having an affair, than not.

The odds of a WAW having an affair are less than WAHs, but still remains a deciding factor. (I filed for divorce and I did not have an A, for instance).

Check yourself for what you'd accept in the event that there is NO affair and

then, check yourself for what you'd accept in the event that there IS an affair/Partner.


If the numbers are the same, then you have clarity. His choices are truly irrelevant.

But If the number you have in mind would change if your h is having an A, then try to get that amount.

It's not "ugly" of you to want what you are entitled to by law. But mediation helps the payor the most, and reduces all around legal costs. That's not always what the lower earner wants or needs, however.

If you two spend $10k more in legal fees, to get a settlement that's fair to YOU, do it.

Not sure how long your m is, (please use the signature block to give us a summary of your story b/c I don't see any more info)

or kids (child support) but this is important.

I have 2 family members who reconciled after their divorces. Not just after the filings, but after the whole thing was finalized.

Both took a few years (My aunt/uncle recon after a family event, 5 years after their divorce). My cousin took 3 years and the second time around was better for both couples.

So it happens. But YOU will be less interested in a recon if you feel screwed in the divorce.

Long term - protect yourself. Short term, protect yourself.

If there are kids, protect them from a man willing to blow up his family --.

When you behave warmly with confidence and keeping calm, you're on the right path.


Check the numbers in your head. Would you want more if you knew your h was going to be spending money on an OW? What if he already has?

I'm asking you to ponder that for a few minutes.

Sorry you are here.


((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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the longer the marriage, the longer spousal support is paid,

but again, I don't have your statistics and backstory.

Just generally speaking...


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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We've been married for 6 years, no children. I don't feel there is an OW. He may be looking, but I don't see a chance for him to be having an in-depth affair right now. Not impossible, I know. I believe I have overall been a good wife. However, I acknowledge I have had patterns of behavior that would grate on him over the years. I don't think he needs an OW to push for a divorce. I've bee doing a 180 and a lot of work on myself.

My understanding was he did not want lawyers due to the cost. Also, he felt having a lawyer means automatic trial down the road, instead of just mediation. He feels this should be a straightforward process, selling the house and splitting proceeds exactly 50/50. I respectfully disagreed and wanted education and counsel for myself.

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Cali, just fyi, you can go to your signature block (your profile has it) and add a few facts to the signature block so that people can recall your history at a glance. Include bomb drop date, length of marriage, kids/no kids, etc


Originally Posted By: Cali
We've been married for 6 years, no children. I don't feel there is an OW. He may be looking, but I don't see a chance for him to be having an in-depth affair right now. Not impossible, I know. I believe I have overall been a good wife. However, I acknowledge I have had patterns of behavior that would grate on him over the years.

you are human. We are all flawed. All of us. You may need to work on forgiving yourself.



I don't think he needs an OW to push for a divorce. I've bee doing a 180 and a lot of work on myself.


^^that sounds like good work. Can you describe the the things you want to work on? Can you describe what your h would say if HE were here?


My understanding was he did not want lawyers due to the cost. Also, he felt having a lawyer means automatic trial down the road, instead of just mediation.

it does Not mean automatic trial. (Trials are rare for divorces.) Plus it's a no fault divorce. The only issue is financial, correct? Lawyers argue back and forth and draft settlements for the parties and let each side know what is likely and what is best for their client.

However, given the duration of the m, (less than 10 years) and no custody issues, you may just need a lawyer for a few hours to review anything before you sign off on it.

I also don't know who has more wealth, relatively but that matters.


He feels this should be a straightforward process, selling the house and splitting proceeds exactly 50/50. I respectfully disagreed and wanted education and counsel for myself.



That is smart.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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One thing I've been struggling with is whether or not to go on a vacation H and I planned. 10 days before the bomb dropped, H had bought be a ticket to meet him after his business trip and for us to spend a week together. The ticket is paid for, although he is no longer going with me. I'm unsure about going, as a few years ago I went on 2 vacations with family members without him. This was one of his complaints about me. Also, between his business trip, if I go on the vacation we will be physically separated for 2 weeks. Any insight would be appreciated.

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2 weeks of physical separation might be a very good thing for you.


BD: 5/28/17 "We're like roommates, there is no passion anymore"
Early October she is moving out so she can "think about what she really wants in life"
10/22/17 She's gone
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Originally Posted By: Cali
The ticket is paid for


5 days after my WAW BD'ed me I went on a work trip, the time alone was perfect for introspection, calm and clarity.

I highly recommend you go.

Make absolutely sure to take a copy of DB & DR with you. read up, read up read up.


Me: 43
M: 10y
S:15
ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
W moved out 2/18/13
Filed for D: 2/17/13
Got DB: 2/20/13
Got DR: 2/23/13
180 & LRT Began: 2/25/13
D Final Dec '13
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For several days, H expressed a lot of closeness with me. He invited me to sit with him and watch TV. He asked me to lay with him and held/ stroked me on the couch while watching a movie. He asked for back rubs, initiated intimacy with me, including sexual intimacy. He spoke with softness and affection towards me, asked me to eat with him, shared a story about his day. He invited me to play a round of a computer game we used to play together, one of his favorite games. I did. This went on for Thurs, Fri, Sat, and Sun.

I was responsive, pleasant, and enjoyed our time together. I did not analyze our time together, or ask about the relationship or future. I continued to do the things I have been doing in addition to responding to his closeness and taking part (I went to the movies with a friend, went to the gym). I cleaned up the home as I have been doing (something I was lacking prior to the bomb drop).

Come Monday after work, he seems distant, does not say much to me, is held up in his room most of the night. He's a person who has needed space when not in a good mood. I gave space, did my own thing and did not pursue. Same thing on Tuesday evening.

Last evening, Wednesday, H comes home and asks me if I sent in my financial docs to his lawyer. I told him I had. He said he almost has his docs together. He asks me what I want in the divorce (i.e. sell the house, when, ect).

I calmly say I need more time to think. I also say I am not doing anything with the house until the divorce in final (we probably won't get a hearing date until at least April).

He's frustrated with me because I'm delaying this "as long as possible". He frustrated I won't come to a divorce agreement now. I stay calm, take a shower, a little later I go for a drive, cry, call a friend, wait for my face to return to normal and go home to sleep.

His emotional and relation tone was very different from the weekend. I'm not sure if it's something I did, or his internal struggle.

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I am really sorry this is happening. One of the hardest parts of this process is trying not to mind read or understand why they do things. The reason for that is that 1. we can never find the answer (they may not even know), and 2. it keeps our focus on them, which is the opposite of detachment. I am years down the road with an H that came back after an A, and I have come to understand now how much confusion and self-doubt he had during the entire process. He didn't show me this then--he told me he wanted D and it would never work--but it was always there and it haunted him, as did the guilt.

I think that he reached out to you and wanted closeness and intimacy is a positive sign. It may not mean that he is calling off the D and ready to R, but there is a part of him that does want and seeks closeness with you. Those feelings may come and go for him, and he also may believe since he filed for D, he needs to follow through. Hopefully as you continue this journey, he will revisit those feelings and continue to second guess his choices. In the mean time, just take it day by day and follow Sandi's 37 rules. Plenty of people get back together during a D or even after.

You seem to have a good grasp on the DB concepts. Keep up the good work with GAL and creating space. I think it is smart to keep your emotions safely away from him right now. ... I also wanted to echo what 25 said about not agreeing to his terms, consulting an L, and protecting yourself financially. That should always come first and be independent of if R happens or not.

I also have noticed (here and in my research) that the WAH are more likely to be having an A than not having one. I can't quote you a stat, but it seems that the WAH that is also wayward, is more likely to come back to the M (meaning compared to when they are not having an A and compared to WAW/WW in general). They also appear to be better at hiding it too. Many posters here have been completely blind-sighted months (or longer) down the road. There can be no signs of an A and the A may even be a fantasy. It doesn't help to search/speculate (unless you need the proof, however Ca is no fault state), but it is something to consider so you can further protect your heart. I would hate to see you open yourself up and be vulnerable to him again and then down the road learn about OW.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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I think it would really be hard for him to keep up an affair with the way he's been, as he's isolated himself very much since telling me he wants a D. Before this past week, he was spending almost all of his free time in hid office playing video games. I would come home at night, on a weekend day, and he's be in the office. He may be talking with or seeking people online, but I don't think he's in a relationship.

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Hi all, I hope you're doing okay.

H and I had a good week. Last Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and this past Sunday, and Monday, H initiated closeness with me, wanting to cuddle on the couch while watching movies, giving me bricks, me being happy and relaxed. He wanted to make love on these nights, multiple times, and share back rubs (like we used to; he was especially affectionate).

I did not cling, talk about the future, or say "I love you" during this time as to not scare him off.

Tonight, after I come home from the gym, he asks if I thought about what I want in the divorce. I say I'm still thinking things through. He said to me "I'm pretty committed with going through with it (the divorce). I just want you to know that".

I remained calm, took some space in my room. Later in the evening I went for a walk and cried somewhat (did not cry in front of him).

I felt I was making progress toward saving our marriage and that my working on my own attractiveness/ GAL were working. There was definite attraction, more closeness and affection than there had been in months.

He has said that he is committed to the divorce. Does that mean saving my marriage is definitely out? He did this also a couple of weeks ago (few days of closeness, then talk of divorce, then coming back to me a few days later wanting to be close).
Also, why would he think that I would be thinking about what I want out of a divorce when we are spending time together, making love, etc?

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As a reminder, often these folks want to distance after a period of closeness. Stay on your own path and do what you need to do for you. Focus on his actions, not his words.

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I told H outright today that I will not help in the divorce process beyond what I legally have to do. I said it firmly, Calmly, but not so gently or upbeat. I wasn't angry but I think my feelings showed through some. I went out right after as I'm meeting some family members for lunch.
He had made love with me literally an hour before, at his initiation, and asked me to cuddle him.

Him: did you get your W2s to the lawyer yet?
Me: my HR said I could get them on Wednesday.
Him: (gets a folder and takes out documents). They're here, I just want you to know that.
Me: you know I'm not going to mediation yet, right?
Him: yeah, but you should still get your docs in...what do you mean you're not going to mediation yet?
Me: I mean I'm not helping this process beyond what I legally have to do.
Him: so you're going to delay things?
I said I'm sorry for the frustration, but I'm not sure he heard me. I told him 2 months ago, gently, that I did not want the divorce, and I've been consistent, but this is the first time I made a firm statement on this matter.
I could have been gentler or more empathetic. He can be firm in his talk, assertive, even aggressive at times. I've been feeling anxious about when he or his lawyer will ask about mediation, or when he'll next ask me if I've thought about what I want in the divorce.

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Oh man Cali, do I need to tell you what a douchebag he is? He initiates sex and cuddling and an hour later is demanding your W2's for the D? Ask yourself if you really want to keep having sex with that jerk! I think it would be better for your mental health if you didn't, but it's your call. Very sorry you're going through this!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Cali,

Why are you still having sex with H if you don't mind me asking?


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
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Cali Offline OP
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I wanted to, and Michelle does recommend having sex if your spouse wants to be close to you even during the last resort technique (if it's okay with you). For periods of days, he has seemed to want to perhaps be with me again (in more ways than sex), asking me to spend time with him and seeming loving, even called me "honey" again at one point (first time in a while). I thought LTR might be working, and Michelle says physical closeness does help with bonding even if the WS is still not committing back to the marriage yet. She also says to prepare for a roller coaster ride (bad day/ good day or bad week/ good week). This was just the first time that he flipped so soon after wanting closeness.

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