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Surv1ve #2756324 08/13/17 03:16 PM
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Oh, Ownit, I got you! My list of what no expectations looks like... sure. I made something for myself back in April and left it on my work computer (a little paranoid, but H IS a computer programmer and for sure knows how to hack my home computer). I'll upload that here tomorrow and then revise it this week.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2757141 08/19/17 03:33 PM
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Update:

Just say no to dating my crush.

1) she told me that most of her important relationships crash and burn in an explosion after she overextends herself and then gets resentful. Since that seems to be the "type"I like and it isn't working out for me, I took note of the gigantic red flag.
2) She told me I needed to leave at 9 pm so she could respect her H's bedtime rituals. Then, at 9:10, she was still chatting with me and engaging with me and making it hard for me to leaving. Confusing boundary stuff, and god, I need clarity more than just about anything right now.

H is still sane. He's been pretty consistent, accountable, kind, thoughtful, and worried about being intrusive when helping me. He's been really appreciative of my house contributions and a good partner in parenting. He's been taking my "triggers" into account in his behaviors. Today, we were at the rock climbing gym as a family (H, D11, EX/OM and me) and he checked in on me, wanted to make sure I felt included, and was generally thoughtful.

He has set boundaries with clarity and firmness with an eye for my feelings. Like, this guy is better than my H has ever been.

I keep wondering if all the work of opening our marriage maybe prepared us in some tiny way for this moment and maybe, maybe he's going to stay sane and not re-become monster. Maybe I can set a date for myself -- like, I have to maintain no expectations and keep my guard up until minimally October 1st and then I can think about dropping the guard.

Tomorrow, we go scuba diving together on our favorite wreck. I've been hanging out with our old scuba club for the last month (and having a GREAT! time) and tomorrow, he's joining me. 12 hours of togetherness. I hope we can just have a great time. I'll have to sit on my big mouth, if possible.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2757147 08/19/17 04:36 PM
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That's too bad about your crush, but good for you realizing that repeating the same patterns from the past is not helpful to you.

Try not to put a date on when sanity will return, particularly not one so close as that seems a great way to set yourself up for disappointment. It will take as long as it takes and not one minute longer or one minute less.

Other than that, good on you for remaining upbeat and positive about everything.

OwnIt #2757160 08/19/17 10:10 PM
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Oh that wasn't A date for when sanity returns. On that, I agree. It was a date for when I could think about relaxing a little if he's been consistently kind and caring and congruent. Because I am so tempted to relax now, and I know I shouldn't and I keep wondering if X is a sign that I can relax. The date is just a way of resisting the temptation to drop my guard by setting an arbitrary "not until at least" date.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2757204 08/20/17 03:03 PM
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So glad you saw that propensity and said, NO!

Sometimes I think people are put in our paths to show us how far we've come. I think your crush is one of those people and congratulations for recognizing that red flag and honoring the changes you've made.

Keep doing what you're doing, Surv1ve. You're doing great! How was scuba diving?
xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2757322 08/21/17 08:17 AM
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Scuba diving was pretty great. So, the tricky thing about living with the "OW" is sometimes hearing their sex sounds. On Saturday night, they were REALLY REALLY loud. I barely resisted the temptation to go stomp on the floor above the basement room to make them stop.

I acknowledged how hard that was for me in the morning as we were getting ready to go diving. That looked like me saying, "Listen, I'm having a hard time about the noises I heard last night. I can either bury myself in this book for the entire ride, make small talk and try to pretend I'm not upset, or I can talk to you about it if you think you can listen."

He said he thought he could listen but he got a bit defensive and I stopped engaging. Then he said, "What are you looking for from me here?" To which I said, "You said you were sorry, and your words are the right words but your tone of voice says 'suck it'. When there is a lack of congruence, it usually means you're not able or willing to engage with my emotions on this one."

We actually had a pretty great conversation about how he perceives my difficulty dealing with his affection with EX/OM as a desire to control (which would be jealousy) and I experience it as grief over what we don't have (envy). When I shared the more vulnerable piece, he said, "You know, I wonder if I sense that and, until you fully grieve and let go of our old relationship, I wonder if I'll be able to stick my toe back in our romantic relationship before you are able to do that."

I mentally went on full alert and tried to pretend what he had just said was no big deal. I actually responded by reiterating that he can't just come back whenever he wants and I won't allow it. I kept trying to drop the conversation, actually, but he was very invested in me saying "accept his attempt to return" versus my words "allow". There was a discussion about personal agency and control which he actually said last night he want to finish.

Other than that trick R conversation, which actually went really well, there was nothing else that took away from the day. When our old dive captain saw him pull up, he said, "H!!! Gosh, you look exactly the same as you did 10 years ago. Haven't changed a bit!" The captain turned to me and said, "You must be doing something right to keep this hunk around." I laughed and said, "He sure is pretty dang hunky." (I know H is LIVING to have his physique complimented these days, and I usually resist). And, then H and I had a convo about the boat expecting us to be a couple and neither of us wanting to get into anything with them. Thank goodness.

The rest of the day was great. H and I dove together, and we've always been such a great dive team. Some of our favorite wrecks and H actually spent a good deal of the boat ride reminiscing about his favorite of our shared diving moments. When he told me it was time to come up from our second dive, I very playfully responded by "standing up" under water and crossing my arms over my chest as to say, "How dare you." He giggled when we got up about it and said, "You know, not all of us have gills underwater, you know. I mean, you could have stayed, but you'd have been solo diving."

Some guy on the boat decided H was a diving god (and he is, in a way, in that he has done a lot of diving locally that is considered so dangerous that no one will tell people where these dives sites are and he's made maps of the underwater caves) and chased H around trying to become besties with H. H talked about it outloud about how it is unusual for him to be chased that way but also recognizing it isn't H who is being chased, but this specific knowledge that he and only a few other people actually have. About how rock climbing is something he'll never be "the best" at but how he can be "the best" at this version of diving and I could hear how much he wants to be "the best" at something.

When we got home, I went upstairs to take a nap. Later, when I came down, H said, "Can I talk to you for a few minutes"

I got nervous and nodded.

"I had a really good time diving today. A really good time. I am feeling really tired now and I know it has to do with more than just diving, so I am going to go downstairs and take some space. Put on some headphones and maybe watch some bouldering videos. I'm not running away from you, but there are some things I need to process."

He held space for my feelings from a place of feeling really secure in his decision to go take space and even said, "It must suck for you to have such a great day with me and have that result in me going away. That must be hard."

Like, I am so continually confused by how great he is right now. It's hard.

Oh, BEST MOMENT: Some guy on the boat who is grumpy about everything in life including being on a dive boat was complaining about everything and H left that vicinity and went to the rooftop. Then he said, "God, that guy is on the verge of a midlife crisis." I almost died containing my laughter. Then H went on to say, "I remember being that way. I recognize myself."

No dropping my guard, right. Can't. Can't. Even H said he expected he was going to have some more monster moments.

the diving itself: beautiful. nothing fills my bucket like diving. I was so happy and stretched out and blissed out and making jokes with all the other boat people. Also, sort of hilarious, but I'm essentially fresh meat on the boat with all these guys basically trying to pick me up... diver, own gear, knows her way around is apparently a hot commodity. Who knew?


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2757336 08/21/17 09:18 AM
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Hi Surv1ve, great update! The diving sounds fantastic and your H does seem to be processing a lot lately. Although it sounds like he has been reading DB when he said about letting go of the old relationship before attempting to come back! Very spooky!

I'm sorry, but I do not know how you do it, hearing their sex sounds, yuck! How is the relationship with Ex/OM and new love interest going anyway or has that fizzled out?

You doing great Surv1ve!!


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Coly23 #2757341 08/21/17 09:40 AM
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I don't usually hear their sex sounds. That was the first time. I mean, when they have "date night", I'm home and being responsible for the kids, so I can't leave. And, I can't claim "unfairness" because H and I have Sunday nights and it perfectly mirrors their nights out (well, less the sex.)

H totally admitted to reading his own midlife crisis stuff somewhere a few weeks ago. He definitely situates himself into it. In an effort to soothe him (and it's also true), I have said I don't want our old relationship back and that it's dead. But, yes, I still grieve him and miss him... especially when this really put-together emotionally aware guy is showing up.

My relationship with EX/OM? Good question. I was really upset last weekend about Charlottesville and a bunch of things related to it. EX/OM came into the kitchen while I was sniffling and asked me if there was something I wanted to talk about. That was the first direct inquiry into my well being from them in a while. On the surface, nothing has changed. EX/OM doesn't spend time with me alone but is willing to do family things with me or with me and H. My sense is that they're softening, but it's just intuition. EX/OM stated really loudly mid-summer that they wanted to be not living here by September, and I nodded and validated and then left the room. I mean, I don't see that happening.

EX/OM is still dating the new love interest. It seems to be going well. H talked to me about it recently and said it isn't bothering him as much as he thought it might. EX/OM goes to the new love interest's house every Monday night. The new love interest has a number of partners, most of them long distance. One lives 3 hours away and there are visits every weekend. No one else in town.

Is it fair that I fantasize that the new love interest and EX/OM will run off together and leave me be?


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2757348 08/21/17 10:19 AM
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Survive, you continue to amaze with how you manage all this stuff. Good that you and H can converse and talk about these topics. Will be interesting to see what the future holds for all of you.

OwnIt #2757349 08/21/17 10:23 AM
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Would you still think that if I had given in to my urge to stomp on the floor or jump up and down on it? =)!?


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
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