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#2756222 - 08/12/17 06:36 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
OwnIt Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 1042
Loc:
I really believe that when we make the decision to let go and move forward that there is a tidal wave of emotions. It is the death of the life we envisioned, the death of the hope that the situation would turn around, the grief we feel over having failed, the scarlet D, and the fear of walking forward alone.

I think all of these things are coming to the fore so that you can process them one by one and move forward without carrying this baggage with you any longer. I feel that I am doing the same thing now. My emotions have been much more rollercoaster and I think I have been contacting him more than necessary knowing that the contact will shortly be at an end.

I hope this part will be over soon. The pain is pretty visceral.
_________________________
M 25 years
EA 6-12/11
ILYBINILWY 11/13
BD 1/16 PA w/OW1 (6/13-1/17)
Sep 10/16
OW2 as of 3/17

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#2756238 - 08/12/17 12:28 PM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: OwnIt]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
Death of the last bits of hope perhaps. That there will be a good ending. Or even a chance to say goodbye
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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#2756261 - 08/12/17 08:22 PM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
Been musing on reverse mind-reading this morning, and how much of a mindf**k mind reading is, even if you are wearing Andrew P's glamorous turban! Would really welcome any lessons from any of you who were able to have those 'missing' conversations with a lost spouse in a way that was useful to you, even if it made no difference to the M or was a long time later.

We all keep 2x4ing each other that we can't know what our spouses think and feel, or why they do or say things. In life, in a long-standing M, we all make assumptions. We assume they are shared assumptions...until we find out they are not. Otherwise we would drive ourselves a bit mad every time we communicate with anyone!

For those of us who have spouses who have run away and said very little, part of our bewilderment lies in the vacuum. It's an understandable survival mechanism to try and fill that void. We warn each other against it because our thoughts create feelings which create actions that might make things worse. But living with so much 'I don't know' about something which matters or requires action takes some adjusting to, doesn't it? I am nowhere near getting to that.

But I did start thinking this morning that the void works both ways. My H will have filled it with some of his own mind-reading. I don't know what that is but I know he hasn't asked what I think/feel so can't know...and often I don't know what I think/feel and it can change quickly tbh!

Bear with me because this is one of those 'Schrodinger's cat/makes your head hurt' reflections....

I would really like to hear my STBXH's perspective on what happened to him, why he has treated me as he has, how he feels about that and whether he sees anything nice about me/our M. It would help me, like a missing jigsaw piece. Right now I see no sign that I will ever be part of a conversation like that and all my previous attempts to make it happen have failed. With the huge caveat that I have no idea what he feels about anything now, I was trying to imagine what I might feel like in his shoes given what I do know. So, me mind-reading what he might be mind-reading about me, and how those assumptions will create thoughts, feelings and actions by him...stick with me....and if there is anything I can do to increase the chance of getting the thing I want.

So, double mind-reading, partly based on what I've seen from his actions, partly based on small things he has said, partly based on my old knowledge of him....I think he assumes these things about what is in my head:
- that I am angry and think he has behaved badly towards me
- that I want him back as my H as he was, and I want my M back
- that I still love him and want him to love me back
- that I have a ton of questions I want answers to, that I want him to explain or justify
- that I think he is to blame for everything post-BD and might want to punish him
- that I do not want to let him 'move on'
- that I think he is ill, weak, irrational, untrustworthy, a liar and nasty
Some of these things are true, or partly true. But they are not all that is true. My H can no more know what I think/feel than vice versa because he severed the communication between us.

But if I was him? Why would I want to have a difficult confusing conversation with someone who I assumed thought those things about me and the sitch? I think I would assume it was pointless and would hurt me, that it would be easier to not bother and keep walking. The only thing that might change that for me is if there were things I really needed to say to feel better or things I needed to understand that I couldn't without talking with the other person. If I could see a benefit as well as the obvious risks.

No idea what, if anything, to do with these thoughts. Maybe nothing I can do. But perhaps if my H does make even a half-hearted wobble towards talking again, I might think about how I could send signals that his mind-reading about me could be less than accurate too. If I want that jigsaw piece for myself still then.
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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#2756278 - 08/13/17 03:39 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
cadence Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/17
Posts: 273
Quote:
But perhaps if my H does make even a half-hearted wobble towards talking again, I might think about how I could send signals that his mind-reading about me could be less than accurate too.


Treasur, I immediately feel that this isn't detachment. You are, in effect, striving to control his perception of you.

I understand how maddening it is for someone who thought you were the bees knees for so long suddenly ups and changes their mind. However, then you get into the "did his opinion of me lead him to do what he did?" or "did he develop this opinion of me in order to justify what he did?" chicken or egg debate. And, honestly, with MLCers, it is hard to know. With waywards, it's a little of column A and a whole lot of column B.

I feel that my H has projected so much onto me, and it does make me feel powerless. I've had times where I've felt like you do, where I wish I had the opportunity to show him that I'm still me and not the unholy combination of evil engulfing all-powerful woman out to control him and steal his life force and the naive sniveling desperate clingy woman. He could only see me as a combination of those things and it did and does bother me.

But H isn't H anymore. At least he wasn't the last time I saw him. I could have met with him, but it was soon after I'd moved out and I remember how he'd treated me and I was not interested in sitting down with the angry man with no empathy who seemed to really believe that there was a real estate refund process for faulty Cadences.

And now I see him making legal decisions that I fully believe are driven by that perception of me (that I want to steal his money AND don't want him to sell the house because I'm so desperate to reconcile) and boy is that ever killing me and my "totally normal and sometimes awesome person" pride. But it's out of my hands. Completely.

You've got no power over how he sees you. He won't trust your words. He might trust your actions, but only when he's on his way out of the MLC. Until then, you are a screen onto which he has projected his worst fears from his childhood/whatever he has repressed, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I do think that time and absence are the only things we have. Those of us who don't share kids don't have communication or in person opportunities, and I fully understand how frustrating it is (while also understanding that it's frustrating on a whole different level to share kids with an MLCer).

It sounds as if you've been reasonable in all interactions you've had with him (staying calm, not getting angry) and I think, unless he wants to open up to you, that's all that you can do.

I do agree that you should be open to him if he asks to talk or calls you again. Reaching out is meaningful, and I don't think you should fear it (as hard as I imagine that is to do in your shoes.) There is very little common sense reason that he'd want to see you/talk to you to hurt you more. However, we are dealign with MLCers, so who knows?

But, based on all that has happened, is it even possible for him to say something that could hurt you more? I'd hope you'd understand that's the key to self-protection: accepting what is and total detachment, not filling in the blanks with the best or the worst possible scenarios. What could he possibly say to you to hurt you more? That he is incredibly happy and has no positive feelings toward you? Well, if someone wants to talk to you and wants to tell you that, it's sort of akin to those people who post nothing but constant sickeningly sweet happy photos and events on social media - there's a reason that's the image they want to project. People who are truly happy don't need to display it or shout it from the rooftops. They're just happy and if they're just happy, there's no need to convince other people of it.

As for how he thinks of you, and whether that could change anything at this point, what would you tell your best friend if she was in your shoes? Probably that his opinion of her doesn't matter, that she's unfortunately got no way to control what is happening, and that her opinion of herself is the most important thing. If she felt she's acted honorably, then she's fine.

Some people want to dislike us because if their own issues, and I feel that happens in an MLC. If they don't want to see us clearly, we can't make them do that. Because they have upturned their lives and ran away, and other than some mental health/depression issues, they would also want to think that was the right decision to have made, and thinking the worst of us allows them to support their own decisions.

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#2756281 - 08/13/17 04:50 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: cadence]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
You're right, cadence. Ish. I think I am getting more detached from my H and I certainly see no hope at all for a shared future. The bit I'm not detached from is a missing jigsaw piece of what the hell happened in his head for him to blow up both of our lives. I think I can be OK now without a conversation, but if it were possible to have one, I think I might prefer that. I don't know if I've always been reasonable. Most of the time, I've just been bewildered and sometimes that has made me inconsistent in my reactions. I have tried my best to be compassionate and fair though.

Maybe I wish I could sow a seed. Maybe it's a seed for me in my head if he wants to talk again after I said no before. Right now, it's not likely to be an option that presents itself.

Could he hurt me more? I don't know, maybe. I think some of the things he might say that could, I know are not real enough to me to hurt even if it might hurt to know that he thinks that way. I have been afraid but I feel I've lost all that matters than I can lose from this sitch. I actually feel, no matter what happens, that the worst pain of the last two years is behind me and that helps me look forward now. Do I feel that whatever he thinks/feels is a reflection of me? Mostly not. I just think he's fighting his own demons and I became a bit-player in his head, not even sure he saw or remembered who I am. But my journey has pushed me to remember who I am regardless and that's a good thing.

I haven't done anything with my thoughts. I'm focusing more on the things I need to do to make the next 2 years much better than the last 2. Whatever that looks like, I don't want to stay where I have been and I wish the last bits of the D process would get done because it [censored] me back. Make A Life more than Get A Life perhaps.
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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#2756332 - 08/13/17 05:15 PM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
Silly thing, I know, but this morning was the first morning in a long time where I jumped out of bed feeling keen to start the day. And no thoughts of H or sitch. I know that lots of you know how such a small thing feels like a really big thing - yay for me!
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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#2756345 - 08/14/17 01:45 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
JujuB Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/16
Posts: 797
Treasure, you and i are about the same time out of our situations. And i love reading your posts, because your thoughts and reflections are very similar to my own.

I notice that people who have been in very bad car accidents, or that have been through difficult surgeries or even difficult births and deliveries have this need to tell their story over and over either in their minds or with other people. They organize and put into order what happened and then try to fill in the blanks or the missing pieces. They do this for a while and then eventually seem to heal usually with time and distraction. Therapists usually tell them to keep talking and figuring it out.

Our partners not only ended a relationship and left, but they also lied to, vilified and demonized us as well in order to do so. This is traumatic and for me the hardest part to get over. Because in their minds we were demons, it allowed them to do some pretty nasty stuff to us (in your case he stole from you, in my case he withheld child support) We were victimized by the people we loved and trusted, and its hard to make sense of this. Which is why you/i are trying to fill in all these missing pieces. We are sorting out and coming to terms with trauma, and i think its normal and a part of the process.

Eventually we will no longer care enough to need answers or explanations from the people that traumatized us because the pain from this trauma wont be so acute.

25 write a post to you about the importance of GAL and it was spot on. I think the people that can delve into a new world do better. Im at a point where i need to do this too.

Im so glad you had a great morning!
_________________________
M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer

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#2756361 - 08/14/17 03:09 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: JujuB]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
Thanks, juju!
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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#2756368 - 08/14/17 03:26 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: Treasur]
leahsue Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/17
Posts: 517
Loc: Alabama
Treasur,
As I've said before to you, it is a LEGITIMATE feeling, that missing piece of the jig-saw puzzle. It's like one day we woke up, and that life-time partner had left the building. Bam. Just like that.

I think us being able to say things like that aloud in a safe place like this forum, helps us come to terms with the unanswered questions. And with the realization, that we may never get the answers. But there's comfort in the company of others who totally get it. And I TOTALLY GET IT.

We can do this. Let's go meet this day, face full and uplifted towards the sun!
_________________________
M-59 H-50
M-13 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton


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#2756398 - 08/14/17 07:07 AM Re: Get over your hill and see what you find there [Re: leahsue]
Treasur Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/16
Posts: 581
Loc: UK
We all bumble around here, don't we? Some things the same, some different. Some things others here get when RL friends can't.

It's hard for me to see my H as he was in some of the stories here. He was dented but full of love and warmth. Very different from now. It is a big missing piece, but I'll have to live without it. It helps rationally to know he was diagnosed with severe depression. It doesn't help that 2 years of treatment and this is how he is. And there is nothing I can do.
_________________________
Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17


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