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Jim, I don't mind a downer post. I've certainly indulged in a few myself wink Sometimes we get down, and this is probably the best place for those emotions to go.

Like you, my sitch has made me feel like I need to impart to people the importance of nurturing a M. I always say encouraging things to my friends about their R's after they listen to my problems. I tell them to cherish what they have.

No one can say if you'll be able to "wait" or "make it" except you. What do you mean when you say she's always been under your skin?


Me-47,XW-43
S13,S16
M:18
BD:4-23-17
W filed:7-17-17
(5 months of in-house separation hell)
W moved out:1-6-18
D granted:2-15-18
Decree signed:3-29-18

Your future is out there. Go find it.
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hoosjim Offline OP
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Quote:
What do you mean when you say she's always been under your skin?


I mean i probably love her in an unhealthy way. Not in a "we both bring our awesome selves to this relationship" way but in an "i really, really, really am infatuated with you and feel i need you in my life" way. She was, as i like to say, the "Girl of My Dreams". My first and only "true love" (assuming it was that) who "rescued" me from a life of selfishness/womanizing/etc and led me to understand what it was like to love and be loved in a romantic relationship. She was... perfect (for me, at least). I still struggle to see her any other way even though I know that she has changed into this wayward person and that she has hurt me so badly. I want back what she was but... ain't happening. At least not anytime soon.

She wants to just wave a magic wand and make all the bad/hard stuff go away, and then, if she is going to be "happy" with me, for the wand to get waved again to make her fall passionately in love with me again... or for it to just "fall out of the sky." Aint happening either... but she doesn't understand that. Maybe cant understand it.

I just don't have the stamina for the uncertainty any longer. If we were working towards something together, I could do it. But that's not the case, and don't know if it ever will be.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Jim, the problem with not knowing if you can make it is that you are waiting for her instead of living. If you would let go and move forward with your life you wouldn't be waiting for anyone. You just might end up at the same corner both heading in the same direction at some point in the future.

It's good you realize the unhealthiness of the attachment, now do something about it.

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If you would let go and move forward with your life you wouldn't be waiting for anyone.


When we were dating, many many moons ago, we had an "apart" period where she pulled back and broke things off between us-- she had issues even back then, was just coming out of another painful relationship, etc. I "moved on" after a fashion, but our paths still crossed from time to time (we lived only three blocks apart, frequented some of the same establishments, and she worked at a sportsmedicine clinic where I was patient-- actually where we met.) So, she had the opportunity to see me "getting on with my life" even though we weren't married, and her friends all liked me and some kept in touch with me, but... It was, up until now, the hardest 7 months of my life. She would call me from time to time, or our paths would cross and "things" would be friendly/cordial, so I never completely "gave up hope", but i WAS moving on. At that time, of course, I was single, with few responsibilities, a much larger and more active social/support network, and just a lot more "free", so... alot easier to move on. And, lo and behold, a miracle. She DID "come back" to me. All on her own, and I knew it was "real."

Now, all of those memories/feelings/whatever--at least on her end-- are gone. Done. I don't think I can wait around for so many more months (and certainly not years) hoping she comes around. And that hurts. I am really struggling with reconciling the concept of "giving her up" and "not caring" whether or not she comes back and then having a healthy relationship if she ultimately DOES come back. At that point, won't I just be like "Meh. Whatever." I mean, who wants that?

It's just all so messed up.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Yes. BD is an irrecoverable loss.

The LBS wanting the WAS to return is still longing for the loss to never have occurred. They are so eager to avoid the depths of the grieving that they can't help but settle for something that gives the appearance of R. Even a wayward cake-eating spouse that isn't recommitted to the relationship talks and walks like the person they used to know so they cling to that. It reminds me of 'pet cemetery' when they reanimate the bodies of their lost loved ones who come back 'different'.

From what I've seen the marriage really is over at BD and there is no undoing that loss or avoid the grieving process. The LBS must move on and rebuild their life. There is always the possibility that the WAS goes through some type of growth and that they cross paths again in the future and cautiously rebuild some type of relationship. But much more often they never look back, or they only have pangs of regret 10-20 years later in their next marriage. Life is tragic and just because the loss of a love is tragic doesn't mean that it can't happen to us.

But in the end pretending that the loss isn't total doesn't change the reality. This may not be something you can decide for your heart. There will be a million little wake up calls that show you that things aren't how they should be until you realize this current situation isn't your marriage. You can't rush your feelings. But you do get to decide what choices you make. And you can make choices that will allow you to move forward and find peace more quickly.

I'm sorry again for your loss.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Originally Posted By: Zues126

From what I've seen the marriage really is over at BD and there is no undoing that loss or avoid the grieving process. The LBS must move on and rebuild their life.

YES - it is over at BD.

You must figure out how to build a new healthy marriage,
with two healthy people.
Not one or two broken people.

Your job is to make yourself healthy


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Zues--

Thanks for the sentiments but, dang! You almost make it sound as if apart from the personal growth and health angle that DB-ing is close to a hopeless sham. I am familiar with the concept that all counselor's and marriage gurus "have a losing record", but you really make it sound bleak!

I tend to think that there is generally more hope than that, even where an A is involved, at least from what I have read and heard... I just doubt my own willingness/ability to stick it out through what it might take to come through that in my own situation. It's been seven months now and we are only now at the point where my W seems willing to give up the A/OM (and that's even presuming she actually has.) Now, presumably, would be several months of affair grieving, followed by a painful journey through counselling of who knows how long, dredging all of that old stuff up. I am sure there are iron-willed people who can do that and who do do that and who come out with a new and even better marriage-- I just know if I could be one of them.

And all of this recognizing that on some level you need to be able to "move forward" with the knowledge that your own particular MR may never be reconstituted.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Jim,

I feel like each of your threads are mirror images of each other. For Months, everyone has been telling you to stop focusing on her and focus on yourself. Now your saying that you don't know if you could take the time it may take to save your M. I wonder if you feel like that because you haven't moved forward on your own journey.

You're 7 months into this sitch and you don't seem any closer to being independent than when I first started posting on your threads. Now you think your going to be done before you actually try what everyone is suggesting, and that is follow your own path and focus on you.

I tried to go back and find the first post where I told you that I recommended you get your own space, so that you can detach and start moving forward, otherwise this sitch is just going to go on and on and on and on... But when I went back through your posts over the last couple of months, I realized that's been the only theme.

Dude, move out or not, doesn't matter. But stop focusing on what she's doing, and start focusing on you. What would you do tomorrow if you got D from her today? Go do that, don't wait until your beaten down, feeling helpless, and there's no hope of reconciliation.

You've been having R talks with her for months, you've been stating boundaries for months, you've tried every trick in the DB book, but you've never meant any of it. Just stop trying tricks, and start moving forward on making it real, find a life for yourself. Try mentally Divorcing her before there is no hope of reconciliation. Each time you don't enforce a boundary, each time you bring up a R talk, you are making this more and more difficult to save. Start by saving yourself before you try saving your marriage.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
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Quote:
You're 7 months into this sitch and you don't seem any closer to being independent than when I first started posting on your threads.


Actually, FWIW, i'm personlly/emotionally/mentally in a MUCH better place than I was 7 months ago. Seven months ago I was a wreck. Wasn't even sure how I would "go on." My physical health wasn't so hot, either. I had virtually no "active" friends, felt completely isolated and alone, had no desire to even get out of bed, let alone go do anything. Now, i am as physically fit, probably moreso, than at any time in the past 25 years, am taking care of myself probably better than at any time since I met my W. I have reconnected with friends, established some "hangouts" of my own, rediscovered my faith (and found a new church, to boot), and ventured into some new hobbies/activities. i KNOW i will "survive" and even thrive and be okay.

But that doesn't erase the pain of loss of my W. Is that pain, and the inability to disconnect from it, holding me back from reaching my full potential? Perhaps to even probably. But I'm not sure I can just put that away or completely compartmentalize it. I can go forward with my life, still experiencing that pain, and hoping that at some point there might be a resolution. I definitely recognize that when I am off "doing my own thing" i dwell on the situation far less and feel significantly more fulfilled/happy than when I am doing nothing.

The solution if there is to be one is likely to be a simple "I can't do this anymore, we need to be apart for now". I've sort of lost the initiative on "I want you to move out" at this point, though.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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Originally Posted By: hoosjim
Zues--

Thanks for the sentiments but, dang! You almost make it sound as if apart from the personal growth and health angle that DB-ing is close to a hopeless sham. I am familiar with the concept that all counselor's and marriage gurus "have a losing record", but you really make it sound bleak!

I tend to think that there is generally more hope than that, even where an A is involved, at least from what I have read and heard... I just doubt my own willingness/ability to stick it out through what it might take to come through that in my own situation. It's been seven months now and we are only now at the point where my W seems willing to give up the A/OM (and that's even presuming she actually has.) Now, presumably, would be several months of affair grieving, followed by a painful journey through counselling of who knows how long, dredging all of that old stuff up. I am sure there are iron-willed people who can do that and who do do that and who come out with a new and even better marriage-- I just know if I could be one of them.

And all of this recognizing that on some level you need to be able to "move forward" with the knowledge that your own particular MR may never be reconstituted.


Sorry man, don't mean to be a wet blanket. I think my real point wasn't about statistics, but rather about approach. Namely that what I believe is the right road forward is to accept the loss and start rebuilding your life independent of WW. As opposed to hanging around and hoping for a miracle so you don't have to walk the hard road in front of you. It turns out that waiting for a miracle is a hardest road of all. And it also turns out that it has the least likelihood of resulting in a recovered relationship.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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