24 Mths in..I gotta whole lot of living to do now

[Brubeck]

Irish,

I totally understand the slip you made toward XW. You are human. You have carried through an enormous amount of pain throughout this sitch, and you've dealt with a rare version of MLC - the mother who totally abandons her children.

Her mind is a true mess. If she started to wake up today, it would still take a long time for her to walk back from where she is stuck. I don't know that she will. You've chronicled all her texts - watching blame & entitlement lurking underneath the surface most of the time.

I'm not accusing you of trying to hurt her with your text. If you did mean to hurt her - consciously or sub-consciously - you were responding to her nastiness, which you can only dodge so much.

You know that phase the LBS goes through where you reach out to people for help in the hopes that everyone tells you your not crazy? Eventually you grow out of it, and you realize it's their problem.

It's still her problem. The insanity that is the MLCer's endless martyrdom is something she's truly believes. It is every day normal for her, and she has to pursue a life that adheres to that story to keep her mind away from the brutal truth of what she's done with her own life.

Remember, you don't see her anymore - but her life is probably a gigantic mess that she has to keep pretending makes total sense.

Yeah, you blew your top. I understand. Step back and learn. I understand you being tired of playing by her rules, especially when her rules don't make sense because they're changing all the time.

The LBS walks away different, but we eventually become whole again. We know what is missing within us and we are taking steps to get there again. You're just not whole again yet, Irish - that's all - but you're freaking dating! Woo hoo!

She has yet to admit there is something missing inside her in the first place.

As for the funeral stuff, after everything your D's have said about XW, I wouldn't try to drag 2 teenage girls to a funeral proceeding if they don't want to. While it feels admirable to give this advice to someone else, the idea that to prove "we are the bigger people and we'll put this aside for the time being" is easier said than done. They don't want to see her.

The nuttiest part about XW's spew is the whole "wait til they're 30" junk. There's no expiration date on pain - you'd think XW would know this.

Bad choice of words, yes, but you're probably right - her head is up her a$$.

[job]

Irish,

You are human and yes, you've had it about up to your neck w/your xw's comments and behavior, Sure, you stated what was exactly on your mind and guess what....it went right over her head. You can state how you feel all day long until the cows come home, but until she's at a place whereby she will action be rational and can actually hear what you are saying, you are speaking to someone who is deaf to all that is around her...except herself and what she wants. Again, I do understand how you feel and you've been so patient throughout all of this.

As for that comments about waiting until the girls are 30, she is as nutty as a fruit cake. She's just lashing out and saying whatever comes to mind. She is no where near acknowledging what she's done or facing the consequences of her actions. It's still all about her, her feelings and what she wants. She's still very selfish and until she starts to grow up, she'll remain that way. Remember...you can't rationalize w/an irrational person. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. They need to hit bottom very, very hard and then they have to decide whether to stay there or want to rise to the top and live life to the fullest.

Irish, keep your focus on you and your girls. I know that you know that you can't help their mother...but you can be there to help your girls as they grow up into beautiful young ladies. Please come here to vent and let that anger out. Venting to your xw isn't going to wake her up and she turns a deaf ear to all you have to say.

Hang in there! We are here for you.

[Irish M]

Hi Everyone.
Wow I didn't expect such a response. Only one I didn't hear from was by buddy Cali.

I just want to say thank you and all your responses make sense. I'll try to be brief in my reply. Here it goes..

25Yr, I'm sorry it seemed like my XW takes up alot of space in my head. She actually doesn't. Little pockets here and there but that is mostly related to the girls. This father can't turn a blind eye to their hurt.

As for the funeral. It is in the past now. I don't regret not going and I know the girls are glad they avoided that circus. Sorry to put it that way but that family has given us 0 support and no contact from any of them. Xfil was the only one. I reached out to him. His ashes will be buried this weekend. We will visit the site in a few weeks.

Sotto.
I hear you loud and clear even with your soft tone. I said what I said to XW and I have zero regrets. I needed to get it off my chest and it feels great. I move forward :-)
If XW takes it bad, nothing I can do. It's the truth. Hopefully one day it will register and she does something about it.

All JMHO of course and I too ache for your girls - and for your XW in fact. She has made choices that have led to great losses for her and I don't think she has the tools and resources to get her life back on a healthier track at this point.

I agree. long way off and I doubt she has those tools in her back pocket. It's tragic for everyone. How xMIL can not see the damage she caused and her daughter repeating it.. it`s just horrible parenting. She actually said to me. "Let XW go through this , I did and turned out just fine" .. crazy talk and no you didn't turn out just fine.

Hi Ownit

Sorry if it comes across as me in the middle. No where have I told the girls don't go.
I supported their choice. There was no way i would force them into going to see her family after 2 yrs of nothing. Not even a card at Xmas. We were cut off. XW sister is the god mother of D17. Nada from her since August 2015

What I do is love my girls. Educate them with books and specialist when needed. Talk about it openly. Never disrespecting their mom. Often i say "girls she's not well, she doesn't see the hurt she has caused." They reply. Dad, enough of the not well mother. She is gone and I want nothing to do with her. But I do see they have an opening for her. They do know she is not well. With that I have hope if XW does the work, that road is paved. I won't force it upon them. I will however be there for them and support their choices.

Regardless of whether she deserved it or not, she does not deserve your energy, your passion, your heartache, your supply, whatever one can call it. This woman is mentally ill. No sane mother would do as she has done. Men do this stuff every day. Women do not. Not in the same numbers.

No she doesn`t deserve my energy. Nor does she deserve my pity at this point. If I slip it`s because Irish needs it. I move on very fast after and I don`t dwell on what i say or do. What she does with it is up to her.


Hi Rd

I cant put the right words to text after reading your post RD. really touched.
Thank you so much for your support. Now to dry my eyes.

Having made my position very clear ( i hope ) your message to EXW was attacking her and while part of me applauds you, part of me thinks you are still attached. In my sitch i answer every message very briefly and move on with my day. Am i tempted to let her have both barrells from time to time , of course but heres a secret between me and you. How much more does it hurt her that i wont engage, my belief is lots. So passive aggressive maybe but i still dont give it a thought once message is gone.
Your EXW is the victim ( in her mind ) and nothing will shift her mindset until she ( if ever ) accepts otherwise.

Yes, i agree. no reply and move on. But it felt good and I`m done with it. Will I ever say something similar again. Depends. Will I go on and on with her and like you so well put it let her have both barrels. No. Its not needed and it will do no one any good. No nothing will shift her mindset and It wasn`t my goal. I`m just tired of being so nice to her.

How things with the GF ???

Things are going good. Slow but good. There is no other way to do this. The girls choose when they want to tag along and when they don`t. This weekend we are doing a nice trip to the states. All 5 of us.

I do focus on the girls and give them as much time with me alone as they need. I think I found the right balance. My Gf does find it hard sometimes but when she sees the results we have compared to blended families that were forced into it.. she is so happy we are doing it this way.

Hi Bttrfly

yes , I got my Irish character out. It`s rare i would say something like that to anyone. It just fit the moment.

I know the girls were in counseling. Are they still? Can you have a conversation with a medical professional about their DNA concerns? Maybe there's someone who can talk with them and assure them? If it is a hormonal issue, as long as they are monitored they can get through it just fine. Modern medicine is an amazing thing. Yes, that's your herbal friend talking, and I believe it too.

Yes and no. It is a on need basis. Also they are reading still on crisis kids, communication, loving oneself. Huge support from my family. I try to have them do volunteer work twice a year.
They do talk to me and very openly about all that life throws at them. Yes, even boys. Sometimes they are out back with their girlfriends. they ask me to join them and all the kids open up. Its nice to see the support group they have, also to include me, I guess the fire pit and smores has a lot to do with it.

it must be torture for you not to be able to fix this for them, calm their fears, help them feel safe again.

Hardest part of this is just that.


Hi Peace

thanks for this peace

Accepting Life, people and places exactly as they are-

sometimes for me, it requires time journaling, therapy ,reading, talking, tears-
not easy, but for me it works because when I get to the other side I see things different
and the more I can change my perception to see the good even in what seems Bad-Im making progress-Its Gods world not mine

I am the same. It needs to be processed and not rushed through. I do have bubbles of anger but as time goes on he y are short lived. XW, she will have her own demons to manage when the time is right. i won`t be watching. Each day, week, month and year brings me closer to peace within my self.

again, i may slip but I don`t fall.

Hi Wonka

your story and the depth you go into it is heartbreaking. You calling your mother after a fight with your dad. I expect that often from my girls. I can be fun dad but i do have rules. Rules they need to respect. As I respect their own rules they might put onto me one day. Some days with D15, simple things like me taking away her cell phone so she can get a good night sleep or study. She hates it. Says i treat her like a baby No freedom. Her grades slip and she loses it for a week. I sometimes think this is it. She will Call mom. They never do. And they have access to her. Work cell, home phone address, Facebook, Instagram, email. So many ways. It`s not that I tell them don`t , they chose not to. They know Xw is not herself and not well. I truly believe XW avoids them to protect them. XW moved out of OM house. They are still together as couple. The girls don`t want any part of that life.

What are you going to do from THIS moment and on, Irish?

What kind of man do you want to be, Irish?

What kind of lessons do you want to pass on to your girls, Irish?

What kind of example do you want to set for yourself and the girls, Irish?

My answers are bundled up in this paragraph.
I am going to continue to be the dad i was since the day they were born. To love them, respect them, to help them grow into loving, caring adults. I will be the strength that they feed on to make it through all this. I will show XW compassion if she uses the tools to get back to the girls lives. I understand MLC. She didn't choose this. Like someone with Parkinson or bipolar. If ever she asks me for help. I will help. If the girls ask me to help, I will help. Lessons, I hope they learn patience and strength. That life throws you rocks, you just need to slow down, see where they fall and walk around them. No need to run towards them, you get hit.

i hope that answers your questions . And thank you for all you have done for me here. You are a big part of why I am where I am in this MLC/LBS world.


Hi Mirage

I'm not perfect with the handling of my EXW. None of us are. I still throw a truth dart out now and then expecially if I am in a fiesty mood. Fiestyness makes me feel alive as this is a journey to be lived and not on the sidelines.

It felt good and I am past it. Whats funny is I never used that expression before in my life. It just seemed like the right thing to say on her no movement in connecting with the girls.

Hi Brubeck

Yeah, you blew your top. I understand. Step back and learn. I understand you being tired of playing by her rules, especially when her rules don't make sense because they're changing all the time.

Funny you say that. They change ever so much. One end of the spectrum to another. And if we did come to a place where we all talked. Her story will change or she will deny all that she said. Shes far off still.

As for the funeral stuff, after everything your D's have said about XW, I wouldn't try to drag 2 teenage girls to a funeral proceeding if they don't want to. While it feels admirable to give this advice to someone else, the idea that to prove "we are the bigger people and we'll put this aside for the time being" is easier said than done. They don't want to see her.

If it was just not seeing her I could arrange a private moment before the service. But it was the entire family. Zero connection. I personally only met his brothers twice. That whole side. MIL and FIL, we had no connection to them. They are a lost family.

My side however. I can`t keep them away. lol Aunts, uncles, brothers. Love them all by the way and they all know my girls.


Hi Job

great hearing from you. I know how busy you are here.

As for that comments about waiting until the girls are 30, she is as nutty as a fruit cake. She's just lashing out and saying whatever comes to mind. She is no where near acknowledging what she's done or facing the consequences of her actions. It's still all about her, her feelings and what she wants. She's still very selfish and until she starts to grow up, she'll remain that way. Remember...you can't rationalize w/an irrational person. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. They need to hit bottom very, very hard and then they have to decide whether to stay there or want to rise to the top and live life to the fullest.

irrational crazy. yup. But I am at a point where i don`t need to PG-13 my texts . I won`t go off on her but if i hear something that is just plain nuts, more than before.. i might reply my thoughts in a simple one line comment. That waiting until 30 ... was way too much. D15 was 12 when this happened. So 18 years is her schedule to reconnect. my god. lol

thanks gain for your support.

[CaliGuy]

HAhaha ... you rang?

I actually read through all this over the past couple days but was trying to think "What would Cali do" and I am not so sure I would have done anything different, nor have any feelings than what you have expressed.

First off I personally think you have handled this entire sitch with dignity and class, and continue to do so. I am and always will be a fan of a good ol truth dart, and there is no other way to deliver it than direct and to the point.

My take on all this ... I have said it a few times here and there and the further from BD and all the emotions I once felt I get and the closer to indifference, the lessons I have learned and all the things I have taken from this I firmly believe men and women handle this thing vastly differently, we heal much differently, us guys are in the minority when it comes to this MLC thing so we do go about things a bit differently that may raise an eyebrow or two.

I respect everyone on this board but did not find myself agreeing with the majority, I was more of the ... 'If it stings .. tough' Camp. Not everything has to be sugar coated, it is not your job to feed into her fantasy .. a reality check when required I think is good .. I know I have had similar instances, its not bitter nor holding onto pain its simply a point where enough is enough and I would have said such things to anyone regardless of MLC or not very much like placing a boundary in my opinion.

I, like you, have treated this whole thing similar to a disease, I am very careful to what I personally expose my son to as it would be very easy to spill beans and tell him all, but I protect her from that as I do not want my son resenting his mother for the crisis that took her and destroyed a family .... enough damage has been done so I do provide a bit of a shield there as I see you doing with your girls, a thankless job but long term better for the kids. The danger of this is that resentment bucket can fill up so one must pour that sludge out from time to time which I think you have done.

Personally I am not so sure .. I think partly they had no chance but they did make poor choices and decisions that can not be undone ... who knows if or when they ever exit from the crisis and what will happen thereafter.

[bttrfly]

^^^ great stuff Cali!

[Gordie]

Wow, nice post Cali. I too was feeling Irish did nothing wrong but I couldn't articulate why. This nails it. In fact, I have only let these truth darts fly in rare moments of exasperation and I have never regretted them.

[roist]

This isn't about right and wrong. That implies judgement and superiorityboth of which could probably be justified but remain negative traits. That isn't who I see Irish as being.

Secondly there are no rules in this process. There are things that help and guidelines. Plus each situation is different and hence what is "right" in a given instance for one dber may not be good for another

So to give my view of the interaction. It was an unprovoked attack surely due to a build up of resentment or even anger. I think you need to examinet that build up. It won't serve you well. Are you taking steps to help you stay balanced? You are doing so well that maybe that is being neglected due to feeling better.

Being an unprovoked attack may just feel like an attack to W. But you only stated your view of the truth. You are entitled to have that view and to express it. Like Cali, I believe that an occasional truth dart is beneficial.TiTiming and delivery however are important.

I also believe that once separation occurs the lbs needs to arrive at a point where he/she doesn't consider how their actions affect WAS.It is good that you are there, but be careful how you proceed.

Irish, in your situation you don't need to interact at all with exW.So don't.Let her be. Send the obligatory emails but don't initiate any other contact. Let her stew in your words (if she even heard the message!!!).

Hope you, gf and the girls have a great time away.

Best wishes

[Irish M]

Hi everyone.
Cali, Bttrfly, Gordie and Roist. I really truly appreciate your views and support. Read them all over and over again. It is why i was away for a while. I needed to digest some views and and process the events.

With that said.

Day to day live is great. keeping busy with life. Juggling the role of Dad, boyfriend, boss ( at work ) and also my time.

Girls are doing great. we dusted ourselves off from EX's dads funeral and her outbursts. We feel no guilt not attending and will pay visit to the burial site when ever we can.

latest XW adventure is .

She tracked down D17's instagram. Messaged her

Call me. tonight!!!

D17 was puzzled. didn't reply and simply blocked.

minutes later I receive a text

Tell MY girls to call me tonight. I need to hear their voices.

I reply: Just like that? What's the urgency

I just want to talk to them NOW. and if you don't force them I will be at D17 ceremony this weekend.

I will back up a little. D17 graduated high school this past summer. They had their prom and grad march. But the official ceremony is only in October since the final exams aren't finalized. So If you really graduate this is the event. In October because summer holidays and the start of college doesn't give a good window to have this.

I purchased 5 ticket. One for D15, 2 for my parents, one for me and one for my GF ( d17 wants her there)

I never received the tickets. I called the school last week and asked them where they were shipped via mail. Well XW address pops up. they apologize and prepare me 5 new tickets to pick up. I do.

I message XW. did you receive anything for D17 grad. She replies yes, but i sent them back. This was last week.

now back to yesterday

I'm sorry threats won't ever make me force the girls to call you. If you show up at the grad, it will only put a huge amount of stress on D17 and D15. I don;t think its a good place to try to connect with them especially after MIA 2 years.

she replies : Then I will see U at the grad. Good night.

Nothing much I can do. If she still has the tickets then she is free to go. She causes no real danger to the girls from what I can tell. It will sadly just create drama and more tension between her and the girls.

D17 says she will punch her in the face if she approaches her. D15 says she will do the same but to OM.

now I personally don;t think she will show. She avoids and is d@mn good at it. She probably had a moment of loss. Her text seemed like she was drunk.

I wish her well but I won't change my views of not forcing the girls. They don't need the madness. They need a mom.

[SBJ]

It sounds like you're doing good brother. I hope and pray that you and your girls are able to stay strong. I also hope that our prodigals will one day see the light and make right the things that they screwed up.

Sounds like it is time for some topless Jeep therapy time. I know it's suppose to be sunny and low 70's here for me this weekend...time to be topless for sure.

[bttrfly]

Hey buddy! missed ya.
Breaks my heart that eew always threatens to show up like the bad fairy at every special event for the Ds ..

This is no way to undo the damage, as well you know - as any sane person knows.

I would make sure that the school is more on top of things for D15s sake so you don't have to go through this kind of crap again.

Eew has no custody rights, correct? Has the school seen a copy of the divorce / custody papers? They should all be aware of this and make sure they don't create another clusterF

otherwise, just keep being your awesome self! xoxoxo