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Treasur #2755532 08/08/17 04:51 AM
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Irish .. I will propel this talk as its a very good one that we all must at the least touch on at some point.

I can not recall which thread but this very topic came up and went on for a solid 5-6 pages in my story.

When I see forgiveness I always think back to a night in church. As I have shared I became Catholic as a part of this journey I was sent off on against my will, looking back was clearly one of the best things that was to come out of all this for me. As a new Catholic I actually struggled here .... knowing I should try to love as God loves, live my life according to His teachings I struggled with this forgiveness thing. So it was two parts ... the first part was just to realize I was in absolutely no position to judge, not with all I have done in my life.

But the second part ... the forgiveness was harder, not only forgiveness towards my MLCr ... but also the OM. How can I forgive both of them for destroying the one sacred thing I had .. my family, my marriage? So it was a December where the church called in 25 priests to take confessions prior to Christmas, almost like a Drive in Confession type thing which seems less formal than the traditional confession. I wait in line and get to a priest and share with him that I am still dealing with anger and holding back forgiveness and struggling with it. I will never forget this till the day I die. He actually asked me if I remembered what Jesus said as he was crucified and up on the cross ... I replied with the famous "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". He said "That is correct, but notice Jesus did not say 'I forgive you' ... he asked the Father to forgive them because I believe He Himself was not ready to forgive those people and asked God to do so." I sat there stunned. He said "Continue your path and when you are ready you will be able to forgive them".

That's the thing with all this, there is no rush to forgive them today, tomorrow , next week. When you are ready you will be able to freely forgive. And I agree ... its more for you than for them and I do not believe you really need them to ask for forgiveness to be able to forgive, that has no relevance .... they could ask for forgiveness today but you may not really be able or willing to forgive for some time. Accepting this line of though was liberating for me, no deadline, no pressure and thats where the true forgiveness should come from ... it should be natural and not forced/guilted just because we feel its what we need to do.

For the record ... almost 4 years past I am not sure if I have completely forgiven, I have however arrived to a place where I am not allowing her actions to be my anchor and keep me from moving forward to where I need to be. I have few bad feelings towards her, conversely few good ones either. I can look back at memories and smile and appreciate them for the good times they were ... and also see the bad times for what they were... just bad times.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



CaliGuy #2755653 08/08/17 11:53 PM
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{{{{{Cali}}}}} thank you. xoxoxo

what's especially beautiful about this, imho, is that it's one more thing to turn over so we can go about our lives and in so doing, we grow, we learn, we live, eventually we find peace. then one day maybe we wake up one morning and realize that we've forgiven them in the process of just living our lives and taking care of ourselves and our children. maybe forgiveness is a by-product of a well lived life? xoxoxoxo what do you think?


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2757279 08/21/17 04:51 AM
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Irish,

Thank you for bringing up this topic. I am not finding that inner peace and have learned so much from your journey. I'm getting to the not caring what she is doing...but have felt a little guilty about that, but see that is a step in the process.

Cali,

That story really hit home. Wow, I've never thought of those words in that way. Something to pray about, for sure.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2758112 08/26/17 03:13 AM
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Hi Bttrfly, Cali, 25yrs,Treasur and Gordie.. amazing views on forgiveness. very interesting topic.

You all said the right things... if it be god or inner peace that guides us. Forgiveness to me is letting go. Like you say, it doesn't matter if you tell them or not.. its for us to find that place.

We all loved the ones that are suffering or ill. We can't dwell on the old memories of when that person loved us and life was going as planned.

Yes , I also found indifference. A self protection mechanism I assume. But it comes with no guarantee. Occasionally I drift back into resent and anger. Time is the only thing that will get me to the place I need to be.

I think I am on the right track and everyone that sees and interact with my girls see that we are all healthy. Sure we don't have the same dynamic as the 4 of us together had but I think we made it out so far so good.

I had some more echoes of XW this week. Her father is still alive, weaker but alive.The cancer that should of taken his life 19 months ago has not won just yet. An employee at my Quebec city office has ties to XW family. He himself is living a nightmare similar to mine. So family genes is definitely a play in my sitch. He is currently separated from my XW cousin.

I brought D17 to the dentist. She had braces put in when when she was 15 going on 16. The nurse there knows us very well and has experienced XW manic state on 2 occasions. Well. my insurance paid for 90% of the bill and me and XW agreed on paying the balance 70% me and 30% her. She of course dragged out her end and finally made payment last month. The secretary who also is aware of the situation as she is also dealing with a missing in action MLCr . He left to work as a farm aid 4 hours away. Left her and 4 kids behind. Well Ex shows up there to pay the balance. She asks hows D17 braces going. Does she need them still for a long time. She must be anxious to get them off. The secretary says.. well she had them removed early 2016. Ex says, I know that. and walks out with a shaken look on her face.

Now I have sent photos to her ( in the first year to update her, I have since stopped since the beginning of 2017) and she had a common friend stalk my Facebook and copy pictures. ( I unfriended and blocked since) . So she is or should be aware of the no more braces.

Also XW's dads GF,left a message on my cell. Not to me but to XW.

Hi (XW) , its me .. Please call me. On my cell . here is the number. Call anytime. 999-999-9999

I text EX the message. she relied a simple thanks


It got me thinking about her. Of course I dip into the good memories and they get swallowed up with the bad. Then I shake it off and continue my path. This is what usually happens.

then I thought. its been over 2 years. the last face to face with her was in August 2015. I don't count mediation because she refused to make eye contact and was curled up the the corner of the room on her chair.. so no face to face or eye contact then.

I do remember her eyes in Aug 2015, as dark shark eyes. No emotion and clearly in another state of reality. Smirk on her face as if she has a plan and clearly not the person I called wife.

So I messaged her this morning.

Xw, hope everything is OK with your dad. I was thinking. We should have a face to face. Something light. Its been 2 years and I think it might do us good. Speaking for my self of course.

A simple message. Lets see what happens.


hope none of you are in Texas. My prayers are for them these days.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
Irish M #2758123 08/26/17 05:04 AM
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Hi Irish. Nice to "see" you round these parts, my friend! I'm a bit blown away that you initiated contact with eew...

they definitely don't have the same grip on reality as the rest of us. It's quite sad to me.

You seem well and happy! Missed ya, bud!!! xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Irish M #2758139 08/26/17 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: Irish M
I do remember her eyes in Aug 2015, as dark shark eyes. No emotion and clearly in another state of reality. Smirk on her face as if she has a plan and clearly not the person I called wife.
They must be all on the same medication or subject to the same alien mind-control ray. This exactly described my own ex during our legal meeting earlier this week.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
AndrewP #2758264 08/27/17 01:26 PM
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Hi Andrew
Again sorry you are here.

Yes they are all on the same planet now with these aliens replacing them on this planet and have no clue how to play the roll. So they are all over the place.


Sadly its not aliens , their brains that either took a left turn or just short circuited and sadly it will take a long time to repair itself. If it can.

Mediation to me was the worst. At least when she was in the house she monstered and looked at me (ok with the shark eyes) but at least their was a one on one.

Mediation was scary. To sit next to this woman whom I spent most of my life with and look at her with all the questions spinning in my mind . Who the heck is this woman? How can she be so cold? Does she not realize her lies are so obvious? Can she at least acknowledge me?

When she did say something to me it was to rewrite history to the mediator. I was lucky my mediator was a woman. At first it scared me. That she will take my wife's side. I feared that I'd have to fight to see the girls etc. But this mediator was a woman but most of all a mom and she saw clearly there was something lost about my wife.

Maybe it was the way my XW was dressed. Her accessories and new tattoos. You see, our fist appointment was early on and no real apparent changes to my XW appearance was noticeable, to me yes but to the day to day people no really. But as the meetings went on. Clothes started changing to teenish styles and hair styles changed 3 times, new tattoos of ravens and NEVER AGAIN in bold letters tattooed across her forearm . Knifes as earrings and of course her lies. The mediator would catch her in them often.

What I think really did it was my XW saying. I don't want the kids. He can have them. They are (my last name). Where do I sign.

Hi Bttrfly

Yes it is odd behavior from me. reaching out to my XW. I think it was curiosity that got the better half of me. I am curious to see where she is at . I know you cant really on the stages as they bounce all over the place.

Most likely there will be a no reply. I'll be honest. It hurts me that the girls don't see her. My heart is broken for that one reason only. I could care less about a relationship with her. The girls , its not fair that they lost an amazing mom to this MLC crap. 2 years in a teens life so much happens. She missed it all but the girls missed out on a mom.

Wishing you all a great week. Stay the course.. it does get better for yourselves... our MLC will have to catch up if they can.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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so a short reply from my XW today on my invite to meet up after 2 years.

Yes, definitely. I know i have done bad things to you and I regret it. And I understand if you want to see me before bringing the girls into it. I'm available anytime. just let me know.

now I get this message today. days after i sent the question. Its her normal reply to anything. Weekend is never reply , only answer doing work when she is away from OM .

she added.

We can meet Wednesday after-work and this address coffee ship.My dad is struggling.He is still hanging in there. He is now completely deaf. Has trouble speaking and knows his time is up soon. I will see him all day Friday.
I downloaded music for my dad. hope he can listen to them.
I hope your parents are well.


I replied yes sure. Wednesday sounds great. Lets see in the next 2 days what happens // if those plans change.

No expectations and I don't want her back. Once I meet her and feel she is safe.. the girls can go if the so choose to meet her in a similar public location.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Irish, this is really a saintly move for your girls. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but in my first meeting with my children's counselor she told me that even the children of convicted murderers pine for their parents and want a relationship with them. While ultimately it has to be their choice, I would hope you would urge them to go at least once.

My H's abandonment of my children has not been as extreme as yours, but while they tell me they don't like him and don't want to see him, they come back in a manner that tells me they were happy they went. While they don't want to do it often, it seems to bring them some sort of peace to see him for themselves.

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Well, that should be interesting, n'est ce pas?

Godspeed xoxoxo

keep both hands in your pockets, as the saying goes for when you're around those who are untrustworthy.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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