It's maybe less about either/or but both/and. Starting with the belief that both of you are 'right' and that both of you are trying to do your best with good intentions?
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
[quote=Treasur]Cali - I've found that part of wrestling through my own situation in a way which balances logic and emotion has required me to be super-honest about the difference between my 'should', current reality based on what I see and a big pile of stuff marked 'I have no idea'.
Of course your posts here represent only part of your thoughts and feelings, and your own interpretation of your wife's perspective. We can only represent our own POV. I think why we are challenging you so hard is because we see possibilities where you might not because we're not involved? Perhaps too because it hurts to see that you have a chance that many of us would long to have but don't. And I see you really struggling to balance logic and emotion, yours and hers.
I think there is something in the DB/DR book about starting with a beginner's mind. What does the situation look like if you just looked at how it is right now, put aside your assumptions and pretended you were an outside observer? From your W's POV and from your own. Logic and facts. Emotion and fears and don't know stuff too. Where are the doors and windows rather than the walls? How can you go with a process and let go of a fixed outcome because right now, the outcome seems to be a barrier to moving forward. I can see you're a strong smart man and that you have the ability to reframe how you look at this if you want to, but it might need you to approach it a bit differently and change what you see as the 'problem' as well as letting go of some of your preferred solutions. Just an idea.
A great post. I have sat and thought a lot about things and looked at it at different points of view often. I do always come full circle though through my logic and the results are the same for the most part. That being said it isn't that I am not changing at all because every time I do go through this I learn more and even though I still think of it in the same logical realistic way I am learning to break away from that a bit and in away.....think backwards, for lack of a better term. I become more lenient towards her.
I have lots of people constantly calling me and asking how things are going and getting updates to where things are. These are people in the know that really care about us both. I often play the devils advocate with my brother and my mothers thoughts and point of view. Believe me when I say that their points of view line right up with mine, but I often defend my wifes motives and actions to them. I try to get them to see things from a different point of view, although it makes no sense to any of us, it's what my wife is going through.
One of my very good friends who has known me most of his life. I have coached him since he was 12 years old, so a lot of his growing up and coming of age happened through me with him. He is 33 now. He also has known my wife for just as about as long as I have. He graduated at the top of his class in SDSU and his major was psychology. I say that just to give you background on him. He agree's fully with me on everything and believes I have been doing the right thing all along, with the exception of right in the beginning thinking that I should have went to see her in Virginia and better yet came home early to see her before she left. I totally agree with him on that point too. I have lots of good conversations with him on things and he always has great insight and a way of explaining things. One of the things he keeps reiterating about my wife is that her actions and thoughts are coming from a place of sickness, as in being she isn't well right now mentally. That is the only way he sees the reason she is doing the things she is doing, which I also agree with. This is a major reason why I am still in the fight for this marriage, other than the fact that I do love my wife and I made the commitment to her.
The reason I say this is because it does make me view things from a different perspective even though my overriding thoughts about it are pretty much the same. I know she is in a bad place and struggling right now, but it doesn't change the fact that what she is doing is the wrong way of going about things. That being said, I don't want to completely judge her on that because I know she is hurting and it is what feels right to her. I hope that makes sense.
I posted this song up on Facebook and tagged my wife in it becuse it reminds me of her a lot. Besides that its an awesome song.
She commented on it being a great song then started texting me about it and agreed when I told her it reminds me her. She said she wished she had seen it earlier, because I posted it up a week ago. She then said she hears lots of songs that remind her of me and us.
Right now I am going back to how we started I suppose, because it's been the natural progression of things with us. I am supporting her in what she id doing and we are having much longer and more open conversations about things. It's swinging around to almost normal like it used to be. She is even talking about our past adventures and even future adventures. When she started talking like this I tested the waters with her, which I have been doing here and there. I simply told her that I miss my wife. She responded with I miss you too right away. None of this happened in the beginning and it was ignored actually.
OK 25year maybe I still missed what you are asking. Are you asking about the highlighted things from my post? Gone over my head with this one I think....
instead of an "Of course I'm wrong about somethings but SHE is wrong..." blah blah blah
What are you wrong about, specifically?
What is she right about, specifically? Being vague makes it feel superficial and dismissive, b/c you are not setting yourself down and reflecting. Instead you are responding to rebut, rather than taking in new info.
Feels like forensic debate instead of a discussion.. A discussion in which people share opinions and evaluate them without regard to their biased wishes, and jotting down your Flaws for things for You to work on and jot down some of her insights .
It's productive to list our flawed analysis of a situation, and our flaws, without immediately getting a scorecard to make sure we are still ahead (making us "right)
Just do you, your sandbox and none of hers, except the positives.
How has your position shifted - from your first position when you arrived? Be as specific as you can be.
In my recall, you are taking the same position and revising some of what your says or skimming other parts.
Personally I think of what I am doing is discussion, but it isn't seen that way. So what I mean my intention is to discuss even if I think what is being said isn't right for me, my wife and my situation. I honestly view my situation, myself and my wife as quite a bit different then what is usually seen on these boards. One thing that stands out most is that everyone I have read about has a lot more time under their belts then my wife and I do. We are in a very different stage in our lives and marriage then most here, at least the stories I have read.
I probably need some direction or leading from you to get any useful information on this right now because I seriously can't wrap my brain around what I need to think about. So much has been said on here and it's a big mush at times. I'm not ducking this question at all, but being honest that I can't think of even how to start as of right now. If I had something specific to comment on I could direct my thoughts. I guess it's because my brain is going a million miles per hour right now with a lot of things going on, training soldiers for 14 hours a day doesn't help with at all. lol!
As of right now I would say that I still believe of what my wife is doing and has done wasn't the right way to do things and I don't think my position on that will ever change because it has my personal values attached it to. It is who I am and I would never think of doing this to her, which makes us different I suppose. To be fair I never thought she would do it either, her reasons are hers and I have to respect that even if I don't agree with them.
The more I get into things with her I keep seeing her family being mentioned and its painting a picture of them putting their noses where it doesn't belong. Her mom got tired of my wife calling her and telling her she is lonely. So what conclusion could I come to about what her mother did? Oh and by the way my wife claims they don't get involved unless asked to. Lets go back to what her mother did or told my wife. Knowing my mother inlaws past and how she did to my father inlaw multiple times was run from responsibility often or when things got tough. Also knowing the worst advice about men was given to my wife from my mother inlaw is also a factor. knowing that the family life was pretty crappy too I would say that my mother inlaw told her to leave me and made her feel guilty for moving to Cali to be with me. Probably shamed her for calling her and crying to her too. Instead of giving guidance, consoling, strength and being a good example to my wife in the tough times we were having she gave her the easy out just like she took. Now if that means her parents aren't getting involved then I don't know what to think about that. They bought her a plane ticket, shipped her car and are currently paying all her bills right now and letting her live at home. Instead of bringing her home for a little bit then telling her she should go back to work things out in person with her husband and to not juts run from your problems, but face them. I know this is exactly what my parents would have done!
Anyway I am sure that got off subject, but that is where my train of thoughts went.
On a good note I have been testing the waters here and there with my wife and the results have been positive I suppose, but not looking into it to much at all. I am just noticing that it is much different than what she has been doing from the beginning.
We are texting much more often and everyday now. We have much longer conversations and talk about many things like our past, even future things and how we miss each other too. I think we have been texting each other everyday since she had that big discussion with my brother and then reached out to me. She usually initiates the texts, but I am trying to make that a mutual thing and not make it be her all the time.
I think that is an important factor, it shows that I am thinking of her too. When she talked to me in Hawaii the first time she mentioned afterwards that is was just really nice just talking to me. She really missed just talking to me. That is communication that we have strayed away from and apparently means more to her than I thought it did. I think it gives her a sense of connection with me which she needs, so on top of lack of communication we were going towards I was also less and less physical with her. I know that the physical means tons with her too because it makes her feel connected to me too, which is straight out of her own mouth and not mine.
When I first met my wife the physical part of a relationship was an odd thing for her and never found much pleasure in it and I am sure because of past events in her childhood. With me though she broke through that and became more and more physical with me. Top that off with me being gone often helped nothing in our relationship. To tell the truth I was worried about hurting her in her physical condition with her back giving her issues and that was a number one reason I was less physical, which I told her but I don't think she believed me. I won't let that happen again and I will just have to find away around it I suppose.
She basically felt less and less connected to me physically and mentally and then her mom drove and good wedge in between us, which is a sad thing for a family member to do. I am so glad I didn't grow up in a family like that. The stories that I have heard about her mother and how mean she used to be are ridiculous. All the other army wives were afraid of her! Haha! Geez!
I do not think the way she left was "right". Don't mistake that.
The truth is, you are going ot have to be very patient. She needs to earn your trust. Trust is earned over time. And by trust, it means she needs to be able to trust you guys won't go back to where you were. And perhaps that trust needs to be earned from afar right now. Maybe she needs to know she can be her own woman before she becomes someone elses.
She isn't damaged. She wants the healthy things in life and needs to do some work to get there. Her way of doing the work may not be what you think is healthy, but it is to her.
The question is, do you have the patience to do this from afar right now? Do you have the patience and understanding to know that to repair this marriage it will not be linear, there will be setbacks and its going to take a while?
If you don't feel like that is going to work, that is your decision. But it is what she needs right now. Coming home right now is a big risk in her heart and eyes. It'll take a while to reach a place where she might find it doable to come home and work on the M. But right now she is working from afar. You do have choices in all of this, but it is up to you if those are the choices you are willing to make.
I do not think the way she left was "right". Don't mistake that.
The truth is, you are going ot have to be very patient. She needs to earn your trust. Trust is earned over time. And by trust, it means she needs to be able to trust you guys won't go back to where you were. And perhaps that trust needs to be earned from afar right now. Maybe she needs to know she can be her own woman before she becomes someone elses.
She isn't damaged. She wants the healthy things in life and needs to do some work to get there. Her way of doing the work may not be what you think is healthy, but it is to her.
The question is, do you have the patience to do this from afar right now? Do you have the patience and understanding to know that to repair this marriage it will not be linear, there will be setbacks and its going to take a while?
If you don't feel like that is going to work, that is your decision. But it is what she needs right now. Coming home right now is a big risk in her heart and eyes. It'll take a while to reach a place where she might find it doable to come home and work on the M. But right now she is working from afar. You do have choices in all of this, but it is up to you if those are the choices you are willing to make.
Here is the thing and this has been my thoughts since the beginning. I can take easily letting her take the time and space to get her head right and do the things she needs to do, but making me wait in vain is the problem I have. She also sent divorce papers and that is the other factor that I have going. I have said that I will not be the finale nail in the coffin and I am still at that point even though the respect I have for myself goes very against that. That very thing waiting on someone to figure out if they like me well enough to keep me around doesn't sit well with me at all, let alone it coming from my wife. If this was anyone else I would make their mind up for them and be gone. I wouldn't regret leaving someone who doesn't have mutual respect for me. They can regret it later, but I certainly wouldn't sit around waiting on them to make their mind up.
I guess if I knew my wife was going to stick to her vows and just needed a serious break to get her head right and to address the issues we have then I would be unbelievably patient. Patients is actually something I have a lot of considering what I do for a living. I am a dominate person though and I will be very direct and when I feel it is the right situation for it. It's a part of my personality that I control well and I situationally use aspects of it. My other part of my personality as far as what dominates it is being expressive, so I am expressive/dominate. It is quite the combination and as I have been told by the professionals not to many of the population is. Anyway, waiting in vain or being patient with someone to work things out are two different things and it's what I have a hard time with. I am willing to do my part and love her through this and show her what real love is, but being realistic I know I can't be waiting forever.
My point is, this her attempt at getting back to you, seeing if this something she wants and can handle. You have the power if you wan to can decide when you have had enough and are done "waiting in vain". There is no way of telling if she will decide to stay or go forever. It may have to be a nail in the coffin you need to put in if you so decide. I'm not judging you for it. You will decide how long you want to wait to see where this is going. If you truly can't do it this way, you need to tell her.
This is mostly likely the first step in working something out with you. She may decide she doesn't want to. There is no crystal ball. You have to decide how you want to go about this if you can't handle the path this is taking.
My point is, this her attempt at getting back to you, seeing if this something she wants and can handle. You have the power if you wan to can decide when you have had enough and are done "waiting in vain". There is no way of telling if she will decide to stay or go forever. It may have to be a nail in the coffin you need to put in if you so decide. I'm not judging you for it. You will decide how long you want to wait to see where this is going. If you truly can't do it this way, you need to tell her.
This is mostly likely the first step in working something out with you. She may decide she doesn't want to. There is no crystal ball. You have to decide how you want to go about this if you can't handle the path this is taking.
I see your point. I am fine with how things are now. The way I see it is we will either start to grow closer together or apart. I know everyone says it's going to two steps forward and one step back kind of thing, which is fine too. I am sure I will know when it is time to move on.
So is this my wife testing the waters too? We got on the subject of reading, which is one of her favorite things to do. I mentioned that I was also starting to read a lot more lately and I really enjoy reading outside in nature somewhere or even just on the back porch.
She got super excited about me reading more, but what it did was lead into some of the things I have done to make the back porch to make it a more cozy place to relax. I told her what I did and sent her a picture of it. She responded with "You're adding a lot of touches. I wanted to do these things with you." To be fair I did try to ask her about the things I did before I did them, but she just ignored it at the time..... I digress.
This is just one example but she has been saying these kind of sentiments quite a bit and more often. Telling me she always wanted to do this with me or wished we did more of that so on and so forth. I have just responded by basically repeating what she said by saying me too sort of thing. Is that a good way to deal with these kind of things that pop up or should I try to expand on it more and tell her things like we still can do these things?
Sounds as if she wanted it done together. That's a bonding thing. (When my h helped with projects that were important to me, I'd tell him it was like foreplay!)
So ask her what kinds of things she'd like to do together. Versus you getting them done on your own before she returns.
If she's talking paint, ask what colors and whether she wants you to wait, do/buy trim and if she wants to see the paint chips first, etc. I'm a big one for bringing home 15 different colors and holding them up before I make THE big choice. I loved input from h but - -as ODD as this sounds (not) h did not find paint chips to be super fun.
seems as if she is giving you messages about TIME together with a task, teaming up and implementing her plans (with your input too, but don't come to an impasse about paint color. No falling on your sword for that!!)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
