Hey AS, I hope you can come back and comment on my response to your 2x4. I do think you misinterpreted a lot of what I said to my W, probably because you couldn't hear my tone of voice while I was talking to her.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
I hope you'll bear with me as this will be a long one, but I feel it's a very important subject and warrants more discussion:
Originally Posted By: holding
Is it possible to be 95% done? I'm serious. Am I not really done if I'm not at 100%? Can I be "mostly done" (like "mostly dead")?
I'm not sure anyone can ever be "100%" because it's human nature to change our minds!
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About my passive-aggressive comments - I should point out though that up until just the past week or so, I wasn't making comments like this. Since I do consider myself "mostly done", I've dropped the hope that things will turn around, and don't really see the purpose in shielding W from my negative emotions any more.
I get that, but my point is passive/aggressive is never good no matter who you are talking to. If you're done with her then communicate that to her, if you choose to communicate at all. Don't hide it behind snide comments. For example:
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She said I should have gone out of town with her and the boys. She thought I would've had a good time. I told her I didn't think so.
Maybe say this instead: "W, we are going through a divorce, our relationship is over. I don't want to spend "family" time with you when we are not a family anymore, it's too painful. I hope you understand and respect my feelings on this."
Do you see what I'm saying? Be direct. Speak your mind and communicate your feelings.
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And I do have negative emotions. I think W is selfish. I think she's played me since BD - I see no signs that she actually wanted to work on anything post-BD, other than to keep me on hold until the D was convenient. She is the one that has closed the door on our M and this family. Why is it pass-agg for me to point that out? That's not a rhetorical question.
Of course you have negative emotions! Although I would argue that when it comes to feelings, they shouldn't be looked at as "positive" or "negative" because that implies that you should have some feelings and should not have others. We should own our feelings no matter what they are. It's the WAY you're communicating that's passive/aggressive, not the content.
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And my W has barely showed any sorrow for what she's done. She's had this ice queen facade that disgusts me. I think she SHOULD be sorry. As far as I recall, she said she was sorry 1 time.
I said the exact same thing about my W being completely done with no sorrow about it, that I had never seen her so resolute about anything. The good folks here kept telling me I was wrong, that internally she was probably pretty miserable and like you, I didn't believe them. I thought no one knew my W like me, plus I saw her every day and they did not. Months later she told me that it was all an act, that she was crying herself to sleep every night because she was so torn up with emotions over what she was doing to me and to the kids. She had to put up the facade to make everyone think she was sure it was the right thing to do so they wouldn't try to talk her out of it. Just try to have a little sympathy for her instead of seeing her as the enemy. Yes she's the one that walked away, but deep inside there somewhere is still the woman you fell in love with.
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I honestly don't see what I said as a pity party. I see it as a sign that I'm willing to stand up for myself and tell W that she's not going to manipulate me any more.
If that's how you feel then tell her, don't hide it behind little digs. The problem with passive/aggressive comments is no one knows what's behind them except you. It just causes a lot of confusion. "You're mad but I don't understand why" is what they're thinking.
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W has pointed out to me that often in our MR, I was so conflict avoidant that I would just keep things to myself (where they would fester) instead of having a discussion about them.
Very observant, and I think you're still doing that. That's really what P/A is, it's transmitting negative energy without actually communicating anything meaningful.
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
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After a pause I told her I'm going to be a good husband for someone.
Answer this HONESTLY- why did you say that? Were you hoping to get a dig in on her?
I said that to show that I'm ready to move on. I'm bettering myself for me, not just because I'm trying to get her back. And I also wanted her to know that she would be missing out on a new and improved version of me. So maybe a little bit of "you're gonna miss out on THIS" but not quite a dig.
If you're "bettering yourself for you" then you don't need to say anything to her. You should be SHOWING her what a great dude you are, she will piece together that someone else is going to be the lucky recipient of all that awesomeness.
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If I were still at a point where I thought W wanted to work on the MR, I'd be all over how good that dress looked on her (it really did, BTW). But I think this was just a temp check or cake eating. Inside I was screaming, "I'm not your buddy. I'm not going to be rejected in M but still kept on the hook for fashion advice").
YES! So why didn't you say exactly THAT to her? Say what you feel!!! If you're 95% or 100% done then what do you have to lose? Your reaction (I just shrugged my shoulders, made a confused face, and said "it's okay I guess") communicates nothing other than a lack of confidence in yourself.
My whole point with all of this is I think this would be a monumental 180 for you. If you actually started telling your W what you feel, even if it's "bad" feelings, she may very well think "woah who is this guy that isn't afraid to say what he feels?" Even if all you're expressing is anger, she will RESPECT you for it.
At this point, there's really nothing for me to lose by being direct. I'm going to make it my mission to not hold back on any feelings. I'm going to say what I feel. Thanks!
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Yes she's the one that walked away, but deep inside there somewhere is still the woman you fell in love with.
You know, this is really hard for me to come to terms with. The woman I fell in love with would never do the things my W is now doing. It's just so hard for me to reconcile this with reality. Even if she is in there, she's outnumbered. I can't help her any more.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
It does seem as if the demons entering the WS keep increasing day by day. You would think that things would improve, but they seem to get worse before moving in a good direction. I often wonder if a spouse is in there somewhere.
You know, this is really hard for me to come to terms with. The woman I fell in love with would never do the things my W is now doing. It's just so hard for me to reconcile this with reality. Even if she is in there, she's outnumbered. I can't help her any more.
Outnumbered, haha! Yes, it really does seem that way. Sometimes they come out of the fog and go "back to normal" and sometimes they never do. The woman I was married to the first 18 or 19 years is not the same as the post-BD woman. It's been 5 years since BD and she still seems like an alien invader to me. I love this woman as the mother of my children (and she is still a fantastic mother) but I am not "in love" with her and in fact feel like I barely know her, whereas I would have told you I knew the pre-BD version of her better than myself. I think in her case she went through some kind of a mid-life change, maybe it was menopause (she did go through it around BD time). In any event I can relate to what you're saying. The old W may be in there, but she's no longer running the show and I don't think she ever will again. It's a shame really, because THAT woman was absolutely amazing.
You know, this is really hard for me to come to terms with. The woman I fell in love with would never do the things my W is now doing. It's just so hard for me to reconcile this with reality. Even if she is in there, she's outnumbered. I can't help her any more.
Sometimes they come out of the fog and go "back to normal" and sometimes they never do. The woman I was married to the first 18 or 19 years is not the same as the post-BD woman. It's been 5 years since BD and she still seems like an alien invader to me....The old W may be in there, but she's no longer running the show and I don't think she ever will again. It's a shame really, because THAT woman was absolutely amazing.
Can only say amen and agree..such a painful waste
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
You know, this is really hard for me to come to terms with. The woman I fell in love with would never do the things my W is now doing. It's just so hard for me to reconcile this with reality. Even if she is in there, she's outnumbered. I can't help her any more.
I have had the same feeling lately accepting the death of my current marriage. She is no longer the woman I loved unconditionally for over 20 years. She isn't attractive anymore to me, the woman who I thought was a good mom is no longer there as well. We can't help them, they have to help themselves, it has to be this way for US to get by!
Originally Posted By: Treasur
Can only say amen and agree..such a painful waste
Treasure, completely agree, makes me sad to even read this!
