Finding my way out of the dark - Part 3

[Holding]

Thinking about the past and the future today.

First came thoughts of the future - what my life will be like post-D, and especially wondering what kind of interactions I'll have with W. I'm not looking forward to dealing with her nastiness, snide comments, and the possibility that I'll have to see her at functions for my kids. How will I feel about her being with someone else, actually seeing them together?

Then I started thinking about the past, and stupidly looked for old pics of W on my phone. She looks different in those old pics, and I think it's more than just the weight difference. She seems more at ease and approachable. I miss that familiarity.

I met up with a friend last night who's been supporting me through my sitch. He told me that, with the "what if" scenarios my W's been bringing up lately, it almost sounds like she is having second thoughts at this point. I'm not gonna lie, it has made me think about the possibility.

Not sure why I'm letting my brain torture me like this today.

[Holding]

I just re-read that last post, and I'm struck by the dichotomy between my almost rosy view of the past, and my very grim view of the future.

In reality, I know the past wasn't all that great, and the future won't be all that bad. Maybe my thoughts yesterday were just the scared part of my brain trying to fight the inevitable change and hold onto the familiarity of the past. Maybe it's that same side of me that wonders if W is having second thoughts.

I can jump out of a perfectly good plane, but it's still hard for me to jump out of a flawed marriage.

I accept any and all 2x4's

[doodler]

holding,

The future almost always looks brighter when it's in the rearview mirror.

There's something about that statement that doesn't seem quite right. Oh well, that probably explains why no one ever quotes my quips.

[Accuray]

My best advice is "don't borrow trouble from the future" -- you've got enough to deal with today right?

Your wife is being nasty and snide because she's angry and/or insecure. You're tolerating it because you are motivated to keep the peace and you on some level may want her back.

Post-D, the anger will at some point subside, and your willingness to tolerate her "snide and nasty" will quickly diminish. She'll learn that if she wants to interact with you, then she can't act that way and you'll see it diminish.

Thinking that your wife is having second thoughts is mind reading, and that doesn't lead anywhere good. The more likely explanation is that she's scared and trying to address some of her fears. That does not in any way mean that she wants to come back, it just means she's scared about the future.

Keep focusing on you and being the person you want to be and everything else will work out.

Acc

[Holding]

Doodler, thanks, I guess

Acc, thanks for providing some clarity. I appreciate the warning about mind reading - I should know better. I will keep focusing on myself.

Inspired by a post Joseph9 made in his thread, I decided to put together a list of all the positive things I've done since BD to work on myself:

1. Lost 25 pounds!! - I haven't weighed this much (or little) in over 20 years!
2. Joined the YMCA to exercise, going at least twice a week, often taking S10 with me
3. Read 4 self-help books (so far)
4. Done a lot of soul searching
5. Seeing an IC weekly
6. Strengthening my relationship with my sons
7. Went for a ride in a glider with S14
8. Went skydiving 2 times
9. Meeting up with friends to socialize more
10. Going out by myself (lunch, dinner, or movie) to reinforce that I'm fine by myself
11. Bought new clothes
12. Dressing nicer at work
13. Bought a new electric razor and am shaving every day (I used to be lazy and go every other day)
14. Wearing cologne consistently
15. Got a passport

So now I need to think what I can do next. I have some other books in the pipeline. But things will get harder since the school year is about to start. I need to find a way to be there for my sons (with their school work, which they tend to struggle with) while still having time for myself.

[AnotherStander]

Holding, I am asking this in all truthfulness, but what is it you want? Do you want your M or are you done? I'm reading a LOT of passive/aggressiveness in your interactions with W. Here are a few examples:

She said I should have gone out of town with her and the boys. She thought I would've had a good time. I told her I didn't think so.

I told her it was a shame for the boys, since they've lost their family and will now lose their house too.

I told her she obviously had her mind made up at BD, and it was cruel to lead me on and let me think there was a chance to fix things.

I told her I didn't believe her, since she never tried anything, and she didn't respond positively to anything I did to work on things.

There's more, but that's a representative sample. Here is what I hear when I read this- "wife, you are 100% to blame here. I have done nothing wrong. I have tried everything, and you have done nothing. You have wrecked my life and the lives of our children."

THIS IS NOT DB'ING. You really need a gutcheck. If you want to save your M then it's time to put the brakes to all of this whining and complaining and man up. Enough with the "poor me" stuff, ESPECIALLY around your W. If you want to do it here that's fine, but quit throwing pity parties with your W! You are NOT showing her what she'll miss, you're convincing her she's doing the right thing!

I said this was the third or fourth time she'd made a reference to possibly coming back to the MR. I point-blank asked her if she was considering this.

That's pursuit and pressure. Pressure is the last thing she needs.

She said even if she were, I'd make her "pay" for what she's done, and would be full of bitterness toward her

SHE IS RIGHT. That is exactly what you are modeling to her.

After a pause I told her I'm going to be a good husband for someone.

Answer this HONESTLY- why did you say that? Were you hoping to get a dig in on her? Now answer this honestly- what did you gain by saying that? How did it further your growth?

Afterwards, she asked my opinion on a dress she got. I just shrugged my shoulders, made a confused face, and said "it's okay I guess". She didn't like this response and just walked off.

That sounds so wimpy and passive/aggressive that it makes me wonder why she didn't loan you a purse and high heels. Brother you need to get back in touch with your testicles! My GF tried on a dress last weekend and asked me what I thought, I told her that she might want to check the local laws because I was pretty sure showing curves like that is illegal in most states. Then I warned her that if she wore it around me much it would spend more time on the floor than on her. If I had said stuff like that to my XW more I'd probably still be married. I was too busy being a dad to be romantic though. Find your manly man-ness again. Whether you want your M or not you need that.

[dusty70]

First came thoughts of the future - what my life will be like post-D,

I would say that your life post D will look like anything YOU want it to be! Your wife gave you the playbook as to what is wrong(of course we know it's not all true) with you. Your GAL is making you better for your next chapter, a faithful, loyal, honest person and a great father!

and especially wondering what kind of interactions I'll have with W. I'm not looking forward to dealing with her nastiness, snide comments,

Thankfully my WW is not a nasty person, I have always said since the day I met her that she is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life(except for now) We unfortunately need to deal with our W's because of the kids. Lately for me I am looking forward to the day my D11 turns 18 so I never need to deal with my WW again, hate to say it.

Thinking that your wife is having second thoughts is mind reading, and that doesn't lead anywhere good. The more likely explanation is that she's scared and trying to address some of her fears. That does not in any way mean that she wants to come back, it just means she's scared about the future.

Keep focusing on you and being the person you want to be and everything else will work out.

Completely agree with Accuray here, I think she is having these conversations with you to see where your head is and why you are making these changes to YOU! Keep up your GAL(nice list^^^^ BTW, skydiving?? you know how I feel about that) Still have a long road ahead, it does you no good to have that "what if" mentality, if she told you tonight that she made a mistake and want's back, would you stop your GAL???

[Holding]

Thanks, AS. I did ask for a 2x4, and you certainly gave me one. I really appreciate you writing that, and I'll try to respond as honestly as I can.

What do I want? Am I done? - Well, I was 100% done for about 2 weeks after W definitively told me she wanted to D. I went dark. I got my L involved and had a plan to survive this mess. I was going to fight to get everything my boys and I needed in the D. After we told the boys about the D, and seeing W's lack of emotion in response to them, I was even more firm in my stance. I was a battleship sailing away. I was angry. I was FURIOUS.

Then W started with some of these "what if" comments, and it honestly made me doubt myself. For about the last two weeks, I've felt some of my anger starting to soften. So now I'm 95% done. I have a plan to end this, but I might be open to the possibility that W could want to reverse course. I am still a battleship, but I've opened a small porthole - W can now get in if she chooses.

Is it possible to be 95% done? I'm serious. Am I not really done if I'm not at 100%? Can I be "mostly done" (like "mostly dead")?

A lot of people seem to think the "what ifs" are just W messing with me, doing a temp check, or trying to gain sympathy from me. I know she's scared about the D now that I have my own L, and is afraid I'll try to get custody of the kids (she actually asked me that).

About my passive-aggressive comments - I should point out though that up until just the past week or so, I wasn't making comments like this. Since I do consider myself "mostly done", I've dropped the hope that things will turn around, and don't really see the purpose in shielding W from my negative emotions any more.

And I do have negative emotions. I think W is selfish. I think she's played me since BD - I see no signs that she actually wanted to work on anything post-BD, other than to keep me on hold until the D was convenient. She is the one that has closed the door on our M and this family. Why is it pass-agg for me to point that out? That's not a rhetorical question.

And my W has barely showed any sorrow for what she's done. She's had this ice queen facade that disgusts me. I think she SHOULD be sorry. As far as I recall, she said she was sorry 1 time.

(Yes, I recognize I'm still in the "anger" phase of grief.)

We both had our problems in this R, but it was ultimately W who decided to throw her hands up and exit. I apologized PROFUSELY after BD, and for the next month. Only when I started to DB 100% did my apologizing stop.

The comment about the boys losing the house is 100% pass-agg (thanks for pointing that out), but the other 3 you quoted don't seem that way to me. In those statements I'm coming right out and saying to my wife how I feel. Do you really think I'm hiding behind words in those examples?

I honestly don't see what I said as a pity party. I see it as a sign that I'm willing to stand up for myself and tell W that she's not going to manipulate me any more.

W has pointed out to me that often in our MR, I was so conflict avoidant that I would just keep things to myself (where they would fester) instead of having a discussion about them. In the past I didn't want to start a fight, so that never gave us the opportunity to address things in a timely manner. With me making these statements to my wife (which you quoted), I feel like I'm standing up for myself. And I'm not doing it to "show her", but because I've realized that being conflict avoidant is extremely unhealthy for me. It's not who I want to be any more.

After a pause I told her I'm going to be a good husband for someone.

Answer this HONESTLY- why did you say that? Were you hoping to get a dig in on her?

I said that to show that I'm ready to move on. I'm bettering myself for me, not just because I'm trying to get her back. And I also wanted her to know that she would be missing out on a new and improved version of me. So maybe a little bit of "you're gonna miss out on THIS" but not quite a dig.

Now answer this honestly- what did you gain by saying that? How did it further your growth?

It shows her that I'm done sitting around to be her plan B. As for my growth, I feel like standing up to W, who has stood on my shoulders for so long, is a very healthy thing for me right now. I'm not going to be an unappreciated stepstool for her ambitions any more. I have value and I'm positive other woman will appreciate that.

That sounds so wimpy and passive/aggressive that it makes me wonder why she didn't loan you a purse and high heels. Brother you need to get back in touch with your testicles! My GF tried on a dress last weekend and asked me what I thought, I told her that she might want to check the local laws because I was pretty sure showing curves like that is illegal in most states. Then I warned her that if she wore it around me much it would spend more time on the floor than on her. If I had said stuff like that to my XW more I'd probably still be married. I was too busy being a dad to be romantic though. Find your manly man-ness again. Whether you want your M or not you need that.

If I were still at a point where I thought W wanted to work on the MR, I'd be all over how good that dress looked on her (it really did, BTW). But I think this was just a temp check or cake eating. Inside I was screaming, "I'm not your buddy. I'm not going to be rejected in M but still kept on the hook for fashion advice"). Maybe I should have said that instead of my shrug - I see now that would've been more direct. But do you think it's appropriate for me to give compliments to my W, given my current sitch?

I'll just share a story from about a week after BD (remember, this is when I was in re-limerance): my W was going out to a social gathering and she refused to take me. When she came out of the bedroom all done up, I swear that must have been the best she's ever looked in my life! And I told her. I said she looked amazing, twice. I said I wanted to take a picture because she looked so damn good. I asked if she was trying to make my jealous by looking so good. So she knows that I do find her attractive and am perfectly capable of making compliments.

Once again, I've tried to be honest here and really think about my answers. I know that I'm still very angry about things right now. And I'm know I'm not being very good a DB'ing. But considering my W, and all the nastiness she's been showing me, I think I've been very level-headed.

After writing all that, it makes me want to close that porthole a little - maybe leave just a small crack. Can I switch over to 96% done?

Feel free to ask me any other questions that peel away the layers of my psyche!

[Holding]

(Man, that last one was a LONG post. Congrats to anyone who made it all the way through )

Dusty, thanks for your response and words of support.

If she told you tonight that she made a mistake and want's back, would you stop your GAL???

No, if W and I actually did reconcile, I still wouldn't stop the GAL activities. This is 100% for me at this point.

I need the emotional GAL boost to get through this river of sh*t. And when it's over and I've survived, I'll need to continue with the GAL because it's just plain good for me. I realize I've neglected myself for too long.

[doodler]

Feel free to ask me any other questions that peel away the layers of my psyche!

This is the existential question my sons like to ask: Who is your favorite superhero?