Still here. Still not detached...

[Holding]

AS, what is a sign of remorse? What will the WAS do when remorseful? Obviously it's more than crying.

[LH19]

I had a woman pull me into the street outside of a bar the other night because she wanted to make out! I didn't even know her. It was great. I hadn't kissed someone who really wanted to kiss me in years and years. I forgot how awesome it is. I asked her why she grabbed my hand (we'd been talking, but really just that), and she said it was because I seemed so joyful. It was some booze, too, no doubt, but think of it -- joyful. From where I was not even three months ago.

Hang in there!

CHRIS,

Same thing happened to me about a month ago. A girl I new for 30 years said " I've been waiting for a long time to hook up with you" and we started making out which progressed into well you know. Felt fuching awesome after the continuous feeling of rejection.

Detachment is the key. Once you realize you can't change where your at right now and you start moving forward you will start to get excited about your unlimited possibilities.

Have fun at the beach my friend!

[sandi2]

Starting to see some genuine remorse coming from my W.

It's not remorse. It's actually quite common for a WW to get emotional while packing & moving out. Same thing when the D is granted. She knows this is the end of an era, and she is packing away or leaving a lot of sentimental items that holds special memories. That does not mean she regrets her decision to D you. And......most (if not all) of those tears are for herself. This may be the first taste of reality she's had to face..........not getting to participate in activities with the family she tore apart.

[Kylo]

Starting to see some genuine remorse coming from my W. I notice she tears up more often during our discussions. We talked this morning about whether or not she wanted to be at our house tomorrow morning to see the kids off. She asked if D5 knew that she wasn't coming with us to the beach. I said yes, and she started to tear up.

That is NOT remorse. It is guilt. The WAS will feel a lot of guilt, but little or no remorse. She is convinced she's doing the right thing, and she's convinced it's all your fault and that she HAD to do it. She feels bad at times, but she feels justified. Why do I make a point of differentiating the two? Because when she finally feels remorse then things may start turning around. But guilt, no, it's still full steam ahead with S and D.

Wow! thanks for making that clear. Very helpful.

[Chris73]

Hi Everyone!

So I'm back to my normal routine after a fantastic week at the beach with my kiddos. I had contemplated posting here while we were away but we were just too busy, which is a good thing. Going on vacation alone with 2 young children who have vastly different interests is VERY CHALLENGING. But I was determined to make the best of it. There were very few moments when I was able to relax, but I took them every chance I got. "Tanqueray and Tonic" was my go to beverage throughout the week and it kept me nice and mellow. This is not to say that the week was without frustration, exhaustion, and a bit of depression. But the good outweighed the bad 10 fold, the weather was perfect, and I'm sure the kids will have very fond memories of our week.

Yesterday as I packed to leave for my Mom's (per our nesting schedule), my W asked if we could sit down to talk. These requests always put me on guard. This time I was thinking that she wanted to change the agreed upon custody arrangement, but I was wrong.

Basically she just wanted my input on how we "get started" with all these changes. We talked about finding an appropriate mediator first and then working on me buying her out of the house and freeing up some cash so that she could move out. I approached the discussion with a fairly detached attitude. We spoke like business partners. Twice during the conversation she teared up and told me things like, "This is hard... It's a lot to do... I'm really sorry..." But I didn't try to accommodate. I just listened and told her that I understand that this isn't easy and that we need to take baby steps through the process.

At one point she told me, "...I've thought a lot about staying but it wouldn't be fair to you. You would have a shell of a wife who would always be unhappy." My response, "...you should stop worrying about what is or isn't fair to me, that's up to me to decide. You should do what you think is best for you."

And then I followed up with, "We're in different places right now and sometimes it's hard to see the big picture. Life goes on and people change. But they don't just change once, they keep changing..." I think with these words I was trying to tell her (as ambiguously as possible) that she shouldn't think in "absolutes" and "ultimates."

Finally, without getting too emotional I told her that we all missed her over the past week but we still managed to have a great time.

I really don't know if my responses were appropriate, but it's clear that there's a bit of a power shift happening. She's feeling overwhelmed and guilty, but I've turned a corner and I think it shows in my demeanor. I have a lot to look forward to, even if reconciling never happens. But it has taken a LONG time for me to feel this way...

[LH19]

Finally, without getting too emotional I told her that we all missed her over the past week but we still managed to have a great time.

I have a lot to look forward to, even if reconciling never happens. But it has taken a LONG time for me to feel this way...

Chris,

That's great that you had a fantastic week with your kids. I take mine to the beach at my cottage all the time by myself and you will find that you get more and more use to it especially as they get older.

I probably would have said something like "I could tell that the kids really missed you"........

I think you are doing a lot better but based on your comments you still haven't dropped the rope.

[AnotherStander]

I really don't know if my responses were appropriate, but it's clear that there's a bit of a power shift happening. She's feeling overwhelmed and guilty,

Yeah I think your responses were great, excellent validation! As for her feeling overwhelmed and guilty, absolutely. They all feel that way. She still feels JUSTIFIED though, and that she is doing the right thing. The guilt will come out at times like that but don't confuse it with interest in reconciling. Your response was exactly what it should have been! Nice job!

[Gordie]

Chris,

Great job on the vacation and the conversation and being so at peace. I loved your responses to the it wouldn't be fair to you. I never know what to say to those. I feel like saying, well it's not fair to promise someone until death do we part when you really mean until I don't feel like being married anymore.

[Chris73]

I just have to vent and maybe bring up a topic that's controversial and/or doesn't get enough consideration.

Divorce is embarrassing.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the concepts of detachment, dropping the rope, and GAL, and I even try to practice these occasionally

But the life event of a family breaking apart ripples through all aspects of my life and the lives of everyone I am connected to. Meanwhile, nobody wants to talk to me about it. Throughout my entire life, every milestone event was an opportunity for friends and family to reach out and connect with me on some level. Graduation, new job, new house, marriage, the birth of my kids, etc. Everyone comes out of the woodwork to congratulate, be a part of the event, and/or offer support/help. Even with my MIL's tragic premature death from aggressive cancer, everyone came together for the good of the family. Her death was an extremely tough topic to discuss, but we did.

Now here I am going through another major life event and nobody will even mention it. It's uncomfortable for them. It's uncomfortable for THEM?! Ok so maybe I don't expect to ever hear from anyone on my W's side of the family anymore. They have to pick a side even if they don't want to. But do people really expect me to initiate a phone call or an email saying, "Hey I'm really going through some $hit right now and I'd really like to talk about it with you..." My separation is public knowledge but other than my mom, my IC, one close friend, and this board, I'm dealing with this alone. No calls or emails from friends/family asking how I'm doing. We had a picnic at my mom's yesterday and it was the first time that I've seen several family members since the separation. But people treated me like I had a disease, casual conversation only.

And now that the school year is starting, I'm encountering a whole new slew of parents and teachers who will eventually need to know about the separation. And it's something that I'll have to bring up in response to some awkward question like, "Did you do anything fun this summer."

UGH!!!

I know I shouldn't expect much else, but it hurts to feel so isolated in this journey. It makes me wonder if perhaps MY actions toward my family/friends over the past 10 years have been selfish and lacking and this is my payback. You know, the whole "emotional bank account" metaphor.

Look, I'm smart enough to know that I can't depend on anyone but myself, and I draw my strength from my kids and my commitment to being the best father possible. But I spend WAY too much time in my own head and I really thought that friends and family were going to play a more significant role in my GAL. The fact that they don't really hurts.

I think I need to branch out and hook up with some support groups to make new friends. I'm sure there are other dads like me who want to talk...

[joejoe1]

Chris73,

I feel you on thinking family would support more. I myself have start using meetup.com. There are alot of events on there that can help you GAL. In San Antonio where I'm at, there are bored dad meetups, thinkers and drinkers, hiking, working out, dancing, Martial Arts meetups and many more. I have use this social app/site to get me out the house, even if for 2 hours. It also a great way to meet new people and they will talk to you like you a regular person, because they only know what you tell them about yourself.

You are right it is up to ourselves to GAL, we become more resourceful through this process. I hope this helps.