What should I be doing now? (Filing for D soon)

[Coconut]

It almost seems like she's DBing you a bit.

I agree with JRuss.

Yeah, I've always said the WW DB's better than the LBS except for one thing... They rarely do anything to improve themselves long term.

They generally have the Detachment, Drop-the-Rope and GAL down pat. Except when the LBS DB's, it's really an investment in our future and generally doesn't come easy, and I would venture to say that because of the work put into it, our changes are longer lasting. Whereas the wayward is acting on adrenaline and excitement, which wears down and then they stop DB'ing because it wasn't a conscious thought to do it in the first place.


As for the other responses, I think your dead on with conflict avoidance, but with a sprinkle of IDGAF.

[Tobias]

"my desire to grow old with her far outweighed my desire to leave her to start a family... Now I have neither."

Yup. Same here.

[BluWave]

It's been 4 days since I text my W that I need answers to 3 questions to finishing the Dissolution of Marriage form, so I can send it to her for her to sign at her leisure. I haven't heard anything back, so today I text her:

It upsets me that you haven't responded to, or at least acknowledged my text. It is disrespectful to just ignore me.

she replied:
I'm sorry. Just processing. I will get you the information today. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you.


the old me would of repled - You don't have to try in order to be disrespectful... It still hurts me that she has not shown any emotion to me through this entire situation. From the first day that I told her that I wanted to discuss her ignoring me (Apr. 2016), until today, she has not initiated a single R conversation. How do you end a M and go through the entire D process without initiating a single R conversation.

I'm sorry, but she's a cold hearted Bitch!!!

Why does this feel like the c-nut that just came here a year ago??? You are clearly not detached, you are having expectations, and you are reacting out of emotions. Is this how you want things to go down?

YOU are telling her that you are filing for D and then telling her she is disrespectful for her response (lack there of). Why are you telling her that and what will that change for you? And, why is it disrespectful for her not to respond? If my H and I were separated and he texted me he was going to D me, I probably wouldn't reply either. You know what I would do? Call my trusted people and do some processing. Also, I would lawyer up and make sure I made the right moves. Texting him would not be first on my agenda! And that would be my right and my choice.

Then, she gives you a very (more than) reasonable response and it's still not good enough for you! C-nut, maybe this is hard for her too! She is saying she is sorry, that she is processing this, she is telling you she will get you the info, and then she says she is not trying to disrespect you. What more do you want from her?!? You are not in a R with her--you are separated--she doesn't owe you anything. Could it be that because she wronged you with her A, and didn't work to fix the M, that you now feel owed something?

"The old you," really? This here is not the old you? Because I am finding you to be emotional, reactive, and looking to blame shift here. You even say she is a "cold hearted B." Why? Where in this exchange does that happen?

What could she have done and said in this text exchange--where you are the one telling her you want D--that would be to your satisfaction? You know what I think? (yeah, I am gonna tell you anyway). I think you are initiating the D process and telling her in hopes of some reaction--some type of remorse--and not because you are detached and ready to move on with your life. And I think it has only been a year or so, it is still too soon, and you are not even ready! ... it doesn't seem she is ready either ... but I have also been saying this all along ...

Why do you have me so worked up? Sorry. I need a time out ...

Blu

[Coconut]

Blu, I respect and appreciate your opinion... I know you have a lot of understanding in matters of the heart, definitely more than me, and I also know that it's often times easier to see the forest when looking from outside of the trees. So I hesitate to respond, because I question if I'm missing the big picture, but I'm going to write my reasons (aka excuses) and hopefully writing it out and going back and reading it later may help me see it better.

YOU are telling her that you are filing for D and then telling her she is disrespectful for her response (lack there of). Why are you telling her that and what will that change for you?

I feel that not responding, or even acknowledging, that she received the text was disrespectful. I feel that if I'm going to interact with her in the future, as my sons mother, that she should know I expect to be treated with respect. It would have sufficed to say "I need to think about it, I will get back to you later", and I would have waited without issue.

This is a woman who doesn't consider others almost at all. For example if we were invited to her mothers for dinner at 5, she would run an hour or two late, and never let her mother know she's running late or when she would arrive.. In this case, I'm filling out papers that we both agreed on, and I needed three very simple pieces of information, she could of easily given it immediately, and if she needed time, she could of said that.

And, why is it disrespectful for her not to respond?

i guess we'll have to disagree on this, I told her I was going to send her the info I needed, things that could be answered in 5 minutes, and to wait 4 days with no response is disrespectful to me, she knew I needed that info to finish the form. Look, it's not like as soon as I fill out the form were going to be divorced, I'm going to send it to her and she'll have almost two months to go to the courthouse and sign it, then I'll need to go sign it when I get down there.

If my H and I were separated and he texted me he was going to D me, I probably wouldn't reply either. You know what I would do? Call my trusted people and do some processing. Also, I would lawyer up and make sure I made the right moves. Texting him would not be first on my agenda! And that would be my right and my choice.

. I first told her I was going to file 6 months ago, she's had plenty of time to do all of that. She asked me if we could just do it this way, without lawyers and just sign and file ourselves.

Then, she gives you a very (more than) reasonable response and it's still not good enough for you! C-nut, maybe this is hard for her too! She is saying she is sorry, that she is processing this, she is telling you she will get you the info, and then she says she is not trying to disrespect you. What more do you want from her?!?

I was fine with her response, just ignoring it is what I feel is disrespectful.. Btw, she didn't give me the info yesterday like she said she would.

You are not in a R with her--you are separated--she doesn't owe you anything. Could it be that because she wronged you with her A, and didn't work to fix the M, that you now feel owed something?

Unless she wants to involve lawyers (which she asked me not to do) she owes me the information I need to fill out this easy, cheap form. I don't feel she owes me anything for blowing up our M, I really don't want anything to do with her.

"The old you," really? This here is not the old you? Because I am finding you to be emotional, reactive, and looking to blame shift here. You even say she is a "cold hearted B." Why? Where in this exchange does that happen?

There were a lot of passive agressive, mean things I wanted to say to her. I put up with her complete lack of respect for me when we were M, I'm not going to do it anymore. The cold hearted B comment had nothing to do with the exchange, the exchange just got me thinking about her, and that's what I think of her in the big picture.

What could she have done and said in this text exchange--where you are the one telling her you want D--that would be to your satisfaction? You know what I think? (yeah, I am gonna tell you anyway). I think you are initiating the D process and telling her in hopes of some reaction--some type of remorse--and not because you are detached and ready to move on with your life. And I think it has only been a year or so, it is still too soon, and you are not even ready! ... it doesn't seem she is ready either ... but I have also been saying this all along ...

no matter how long I wait the D is going to be painful, I don't see any reason to bring the pain up in another year instead of just doing it now and moving on. I really don't see D as an end to all possibilities (not that I ever see me wanting back together), it's pretty cheap and easy to get M without the party.

Why do you have me so worked up? Sorry. I need a time out ...

Blu

because you want the best for me and see me making, what you consider mistakes, and I have a hard head to get through to.

Ps- I did this on my iPad and all the quotes took a long time to do, so some of my answers were to the point to speed it along.

[Coconut]

My ex is a person who never meets deadlines, never plans her time, and really doesn't care if she meets anyone elses expectations.

At work, she was constantly late on deadlines for everything. If there was a training that was due on a certain day, she wouldn't even look at it until the boss said something about it. When yearly work audits where due, she wouldn't start them until after they were due. I mean in every aspect of her life, she doesn't care at all about doing things that should be done.

When we would have plans to meet other people, she would be sitting on the couch playing on FB or her games, about 30 minutes before we had to leave I would start "reminding" her that we need to leave in 30 minutes, I would get ready, and 5 minutes before we need to leave she would still be playing her games. It takes her 30-45 minutes to get ready. At first I would load the car with anything we had to take, call the people we were meeting and let them know we were going to be late, then I would pace around angrily until she was ready.

I did my best to try and change that attitude throughout my M, but at some point I gave up on it, and the last few years of our M I just started driving separately so I could get there on time and she would get there whenever she got there.

So I believe (and am pretty sure) her lack of response or acknowledgment wasn't as much she is hurting, or needs time, as it is just a lack of concern about what I need or am asking for, and she's just doing her own thing.

Don't forget, it was only about a month ago that she texted me and asked if we could "talk" about son, I agreed and she said she would call me in a "little bit". She tried to call me about 1 1/2 weeks later, I didn't answer, I text her and told her I would just talk to son about it.

[Coconut]

Here are the follow up texts to our previous texting.. when she said that she would send me the information that day.

(the next day)
M - Really?? Is it because you don't know, aren't ready, or just like f'n with me?

WW - No, I am definitely not f'n with you. I don't know when I moved to current county. I believe I was 21. So I guess just put then, my mom might know better approx. date so I'll ask her. as for name change, I haven't decided this but I guess if you need an quick answer.. yes.

M - I wish you would of said that before. The date is just to show that you've lived there for 6 months, so I'll just put birthday when you turned 22 if you were there at 21.

M - Also, if you need time to decide name, just say so and I can wait. I just don't like feeling like I'm being ignored.

W - I know and I'm sorry. I wasn't intentionally ignoring you.

W - Ok, for the date I moved to county that's fine.

w - Honestly, I never though about changing my name back, and it's a really hard decision. Do you have a preference on what I do?

M - I really appreciate you asking my input on the name, although there was a time I would of wanted you to change it, I don't feel that way anymore, I'm ok with either decision. With that said, I don't feel comfortable making a recommendation. I think you should talk to someone who's been there, maybe your mom or friend. They may be able to give you some pluses or minuses that someone who hasn't been there wouldn't think of.

M - I will hold off on filing out the form until you decide and let me know.

W - Thank you. I really appreciate that.

[BluWave]

Okay, I think I what see what you are saying. So there is an element of her being self-centered that has always been there. Now at a time when you are asking for something simple, and very delicate, it is a trigger for you? Not only is this a big decision, but it is an emotional one, so perhaps you feel further rejected that she is not giving it the attention it deserves? Does it also trigger you that you are doing all of the work? You are only asking for her to add in info and she can't reliably do that.

There is something about your sitch that saddens me in a different way. All of our sitches are chalked full of rejection and heart ache, so that is not what I mean. I know she had the ea--the lies and betrayal--and then she didn't show remorse, initiate R talks, and she wasn't committed to the reconciliation, nor would she give up the fire station. I get that. I would (and do) definitely need those things too.

I still sense that even though she was entitled and turned away, that she hasn't fully given up on the M. I also see that you have been torn emotionally. I recall that you both somewhat came back together, however there wasn't much movement. It has also only been a year and some months right? It seems from the sitches here (my own included) that the time line can be so long, and sometimes several years.

I am not saying that you should wait and that you should not file for D. Not what I am saying. It is just that from my perspective, your M is one of the few on these boards that I see hope for in the future. Admittedly, it is partly my instinct and I don't know either of you IRL. ... Maybe you both could benefits from some changes too? What would she say about you?

I get this sense that you and I have some similarities. I know that there were some things about me that kept my H away for so long and it was not just the pull of OW. I am not saying that she is going to come back and ask to R if you make these changes, and I am not seeing that you are waiting for that, but I do wonder what she would say.

Could she think you would punish her for her mistakes for the rest of her life?
Does she think you will never forgive her and love her as you used to?
Does she feel suffocated in the M (or simply at this time in her life) and need more freedom?
Does she find you to be impatient or controlling?

I don't know her side and I never will. I just see ambivalence from both of you and short time frame.

Blu

[Coconut]

You nailed it Blu, I completely relate with almost everything you posted. I will do my best to answer these (will require some mind reading), but I think I can get pretty close to a “true” answer.

Okay, I think I what see what you are saying. So there is an element of her being self-centered that has always been there. Now at a time when you are asking for something simple, and very delicate, it is a trigger for you?

She is and has always been pretty self centered, got worse as we went further in our M. My nice guy tendencies put up with a lot more than I should have, and I did harbor a lot of resentment from it.
As for it being a trigger, yes. When she previously told me she would call “in a little while”, it was a Saturday morning and I admittedly spent a little time “waiting” for the call. As the hours went by, I got more and more into doing my own thing but checked my phone periodically to make sure I didn’t miss the call. After about 5 hours or so, I knew she wasn’t going to call and went about my day. I was slightly perturbed that she didn’t follow through on the call, but I dropped it and didn’t say anything to her. By the time she called a week and a half later, I had already talked to my son and we agreed to discuss it when he got up to my house (which I felt would be more effective to working through it with him), so I just decided not to talk to her about it. It’s not like I didn’t talk to her about it because I was upset with her, just that by then I had decided it would be better for me to talk to him man to man, rather than saying “your mom told me…”.
As far as the text with the information I needed, this was the first time in Months that I contacted her about something I actually needed, and I felt like she was disregarding what I needed and that triggered me, because I had no choice but to get from her. She had the control (I admittedly didn’t like that) and I felt she was ignoring my request at my expense.

Not only is this a big decision, but it is an emotional one, so perhaps you feel further rejected that she is not giving it the attention it deserves?

Yes, definitely. Doing this process now isn’t that hard for me, but I do carry some emotion with it and feeling like she is ignoring it at my expense did/does make me feel further rejected. Like I’m not even worth the effort to think about the divorce or do what needs to be done to get it done.

Does it also trigger you that you are doing all of the work? You are only asking for her to add in info and she can't reliably do that.

This isn’t a problem, the form only took me 5 minutes to fill out, and it’s all we have to fill out for the procedure. FL really has a very easy cheap ($400) solution to dissolution of M as long as you don’t have kids together and you agree that assets have been split agreeably (don’t even need to fill out financial forms). But it does trigger me that she couldn’t respond to the questions I asked. I understand that deciding to change your name may take some time to think about, but again, if she would have acknowledged my request for the info I would have waited.

There is something about your sitch that saddens me in a different way. All of our sitches are chalked full of rejection and heart ache, so that is not what I mean. I know she had the ea--the lies and betrayal--and then she didn't show remorse, initiate R talks, and she wasn't committed to the reconciliation, nor would she give up the fire station. I get that. I would (and do) definitely need those things too.

I know what you mean, I recently referred to my wife’s A as very minor, and in the scheme of things it was but only because I was so aware of the changes and acted on my instincts. With that said though, the wayward mindset doesn’t subside easily, and my anger and inability to DB really hurt the opportunity to reconcile. There was a lot of love there at the time, she never got to a point where she “hated” me, it was about how much she had been “hurt”.

I still sense that even though she was entitled and turned away, that she hasn't fully given up on the M. I also see that you have been torn emotionally. I recall that you both somewhat came back together, however there wasn't much movement. It has also only been a year and some months right? It seems from the sitches here (my own included) that the time line can be so long, and sometimes several years.

She’s never mentioned wanting to get divorced, I’m the only one that has ever brought it up, and the previous time I brought it up, she actually said “It’s not what I want, but if that’s what you want I will agree to it”… ha, DB’d by my WW… She said several times that she always saw us getting back together in the future. I think my problem with that is, that I know the only way it would work is if we BOTH put in work, and her inability to reach out at all in the last year indicates to me that she either isn’t willing, or able, to do that work. I know that it can often be several years before reconciliation occurs, but Blu, I really don’t think I want to wait anymore. And it’s not about me wanting to find someone else, because I have no desire to try and seek someone else out right now, but I just feel like this is something I need to do for myself. I can’t really say why I feel that way, I’m trying to figure out what makes me feel like I want to be divorced, and I just can’t put my finger on it. It’s almost like I don’t feel whole, and I feel like finalizing the D will help me get back to being whole. Of course it could also be that I’m the type of person that if something needs to be done, I’d rather do it right now rather than put it off until tomorrow, so maybe knowing that it’s going to need to be done at some point, my natural instinct is to just go ahead and get it done. I was listening to the radio a few weeks ago, and they were discussing divorces getting back into the dating scene, one of the people mentioned that a lot of older people on Timber, Tumbler (I’m not sure of the name of the dating app) put in their description not to contact them unless they’ve been divorced for more than 2 years… so maybe I’m just trying to get that 2 year countdown started 

I am not saying that you should wait and that you should not file for D. Not what I am saying. It is just that from my perspective, your M is one of the few on these boards that I see hope for in the future.

Let me preface this by saying that I don’t know enough about her to know if the waywardness is still there, my son’s description of their R makes me believe it is (but that’s only his view, and could be exaggerated although I don’t know my son to exaggerate), but for some reason I feel like the waywardness has past (lots of mind reading and guessing there). With that said, I do kind of feel it’s past, and there is a part of me that believes she is at a point that if I pursued, I could possibly get her back. I’m not afraid of rejection, and if it was something I wanted, I would at least contact her and have some conversations, but I don’t have any desire to do so. I talk to lots of people that know her, and I never even have the desire to ask them how she’s doing to try and gain insight, I just don’t have any desire to try and get closer to her. I’m happiest keeping minimal communication with her, and just keeping it about son. But as I write this, I realize that I would love for her to contact me to have a deep conversation about how she feels about everything.. hmm, ok. That literally popped in my head, and now I’m wondering if everything, most or some of what I wrote could be defenses put up to protect the walls I’ve built.,.. I’m gonna think about this for a while and finish the post later.

[Coconut]

Admittedly, it is partly my instinct and I don't know either of you IRL. ... Maybe you both could benefits from some changes too? What would she say about you?

this is a hard one to answer, I, like everyone one else that has experienced BD got a laundry list of everything we do or ever did that made them unhappy. My assessment is that I’m a nice guy, I did things for her expecting to get rewarded for them (not knowing I was doing that), eventually I checked out. I never addressed my feelings with her (had no idea or understanding of what was going on with me back then), I started looking for reasons that I felt the way I did and finally settled on the fact that she was so involved with son that I would just have to wait until he moved out to get my W back.

I was miserable in my M, had some major changes at work that added to my stress and eventually became depressed and did NOTHING on a day to day basis. My life basically consisted of going to work where I was miserable, coming home making a drink and relaxing (which meant watch TV), add more drinks and more TV and then go to bed. I would participate in occasional family gatherings, and was only happy when on vacation away from work. Meanwhile, she was participating in activities (karate, going out with girlfriends, etc.)

So I’m not sure what things from the laundry list, or just my general inactive lifestyle back then, she would list. But most of those things have changed, I’m very active, involved with friends, and stopped drinking (other than occasional social outings).

I get this sense that you and I have some similarities. I know that there were some things about me that kept my H away for so long and it was not just the pull of OW. I am not saying that she is going to come back and ask to R if you make these changes, and I am not seeing that you are waiting for that, but I do wonder what she would say.

What types of changes are you thinking? See list of my changes above. One thing that I know needs to be worked on is my communication skills, I am very to the point and can get very impatient when people tell me the long story when it can be shortened.

I don’t think my W ever had a chance of coming back to me. We went immediately into piecing while she was still volunteering at FD with OM, and after about two months I found out she was still communicating with OM and told her I was done with M, sold house and moved out. After I found out about continued communication, I got angry and lashed out (you know all of this), and there was no way that she was going to come back to me as angry as I was and lashing out all the time. Right after I lost the anger and stopped lashing out, I moved and haven’t had a single R talk since.

Could she think you would punish her for her mistakes for the rest of her life?

I think overall I did pretty well during out “piecing” 2 month phase, but then she was so focused on her phone (FB, texting people other than OM), that I’m not sure she even remembers how awesome I was.. To be honest, after about 2 weeks of fake piecing, she would comment that I would never be able to get past the A and stop asking questions or have triggers.. that would make me so pissed, she was an emotional black hole and she wanted me to just forget it all and not let it affect me. As for now, I don’t have a clue what she thinks about me, or my ability to do anything. I can’t tell you enough how dark we have both been since around December / January.

Does she think you will never forgive her and love her as you used to?

My guess would be yes, and I am guessing that because of my anger phase. I showed her a lot of hate, not sure she could believe that I could go from such hate back to love… But who knows, cause I did go from so Loving to hate which I guess she would of never imagined.

Does she feel suffocated in the M (or simply at this time in her life) and need more freedom?

No, I was very supportive of her life during M, I never held her back from doing anything (the whole nice guy thing)… I have no idea if she feels suffocated by someone/something now.

Does she find you to be impatient or controlling?

Impatient, yes (she’s always late so plenty of opportunity to see me impatient).. controlling, no, not at all.

I don't know her side and I never will. I just see ambivalence from both of you and short time frame.

I don’t’ know her side either.. most of what she spoke post BD was crap, like trying to convince my family that he was a friend first and that’s why she is still friends (they only knew each other for 2 months at BD). As for why the A in the first place, I had checked out of M and she was longing for attention.

[BluWave]

Wow, that is some thorough analysis, thank you. (I am practicing my validation techniques if you didn't notice:-). Hey, have you ever seen that movie Forgetting Sarah Marshall? If not, please do so. Immediately. In the first scene he is laying around in his sweats and eating cereal out of a giant tupperware bowl. Your post just reminded me of that. It will be sure to give you a good laugh.

So here is the thing, it wasn't for that long that you each were able to make some changes in yourselves and also to see the changes in the other. You list some things that a woman with a soon to be adult son--especially one that is wanting to go out and have some fun--might very well pull away from you. You describe yourself as a NG, impatient, not motivated, drinking and watching tv most evenings, and then when she messed up you showed her a lot of hate (understandable, I'm just saying). So how much 180 and GAL did you do while you were around her? And for what length of time?

Then you moved out of state. So now it is pretty much over and you are far away and both thinking you may never know if it could have worked. That is just sad to me.

I wish there was a way we could meet up in person and discuss this. ... Although I guess it would be dangerous to have a bunch of LBS meeting up. That might no facilitate marriage. LOL.

Blu