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#2752934 07/25/17 12:40 AM
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http://divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2751984&page=11

So carrying over from my last thread

Own it- I don't know why I'm afraid to do either of those things. I KNOW H will refuse to give me the keys back as he's paying for everything here.

If I change the locks he will create a scene here in front of the boys but that's what I did last time after he moved out.

So should I not say anything to him? Don't tell him I know where he was at X house with that woman.

It is against the law for me to change the locks because he lives here and all his things are here.

Last edited by Cadet; 07/25/17 03:31 AM. Reason: fix link

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Not R advice, but as far as the locks:

Change them to one of those bluetooth locks. He can get in with his smartphone (and access can be limited by time/day) and/or give notification when he is there.


Me: 43
M: 10y
S:15
ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
W moved out 2/18/13
Filed for D: 2/17/13
Got DB: 2/20/13
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T you said before that you could change the locks and he could change them back. That is not against the law.

If you change the locks and he breaches the peace by pounding on the door and the cops show up, they will just say it is a civil dispute and they can't get involved.

This guy has effectively moved out. It is only prudent to change the locks. If he wants, he can get in line for the 90-120 hearing and you can counter-move for support. There are only "wins" for you here if you show him your strength and your resolve.

Please don't kid yourself that the boys seeing him freak out once is worse than seeing him disrespect you every single day. They are young. They are going to get over this and probably won't even have much of a memory of any of this.

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Hi T! Congrats on passing your webcam encounter, too. You are amazingly strong and I'd love for you to feel confident enough to apply it in every area of your life.

The following is meant as constructive feedback for you:

You did a decent job on the phone with him. I think the piece that I'd change is your lack of recognition that he's trying to drag you into the same old "I'm not where you think I am" argument.

I loved the "not a hotel" piece, but I do wish it were an active declaration rather than a reactive/defensive statement when he's trying to drag you into an argument.

An active conversation coming from strength might look like "H, you've left. You don't want to be married anymore, and I'd like the childcare arrangement to start reflecting that. I'm not comfortable with you sleeping here since you left the marriage and I'm especially not okay with you arriving so late and treating it like a hotel. It's time to start thinking about you finding somewhere else to live and getting on a regular childcare schedule. I'd hope you'd find a place with enough bedrooms for the kids and a suitable environment for them. Until you can do that, how about we give you every Saturday with them and you can come and pick them up and take them out to do something, but they still sleep here until you've procured housing? I'm happy to write all of this down for your records."

And that would happen when there is no argument or tension happening.

But you've been avoiding that conversation and I don't know why. If I had to guess, it's because you're scared it will drive him further away. But, T, should you be trusting old fears and anxieties, or logic? Because logically, he's left the marriage already.

T, I'm a bit alarmed that you didn't see your old patterns creeping in on the phone call with H. First, why answer? Let it go to voicemail. If you had to talk to him, the minute he was trying to dredge up the same topic that were part of your marital arguments, you should have said "I'm not interested, H. Where you spend your time is water under the bridge. Do what you want, my only concern is what directly impacts me, and that is your coming and going from the home."

Instead, we saw you take the bait because you so needed to launch the "I'm not stupid!" language at him.

T. Look at all that you have accomplished in your life. Of course you're not stupid. Why does it matter so much for you to be able to say that to him? Why is it necessary?

I wish you'd work to let that go. You still care so much what he thinks of you, and you are very wrapped up in him knowing that you know. From my recollection, that's already been established, and thus bringing it up again is nothing but pursuit, despite the fact that he's the one that called you. Because you were defensive and reacting to him. Giving him a reaction makes him feel powerful, and gives him the negative attention he's seeking from you.

Let him go. Drop the rope. Let him see, via your actions, that's what you're doing. You don't have to answer his calls. If he doesn't have the kids with him, there's obviously no emergency that needs your attention. And if you do end up in conversation with him, do not even entertain anything that has to do with the M, like where he's spending his time.

Here's what matters: He left. Now, living in that reality, what do YOU want? Because what you want matters. What he wants matters only a tiny bit, and it has to be about the kids.

I really want you to think about this. You've now given him more evidence that his coming and going bothers you, but that you're feeling too meek to do anything about it, so my prediction is that he escalates the outrageous comings and goings, since he knows it bothers you. You did not address his behavior from a place of strength and confidence where you are not afraid to actively advocate for yourself; you did it out of reactive defensiveness, and I anticipate he'll be trying to provoke an argument by doing what he knows bothers you.

It's getting to be way past time to address appropriate boundaries and formalizing a childcare schedule.

If you're worried about finances, he could pull them no matter what you do, and you've already delayed filing and pushed out that waiting period of 3-4 months.

The most powerful thing you could do for yourself is to stop worrying about what he thinks of you and what he might do, and become your own biggest fan and advocate for yourself. Also, formally protect yourself from what you know he's liable to do regarding finances.

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She gets snappy and you call her out on it?

That's not working. Stop doing that.


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2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
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Oops--wrong thread, sorry.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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T,

The advice you're receiving is absolutely INCREDIBLE. I wish I would have had these contributors when I was going through my struggles! I know it may be difficult to apply it. You're obviously so close to everything, emotionally. I remember how some posts in my situation didn't make much sense until after everything was over. It was then that I realized how everyone was spot-on.

We're all telling you the same thing: if you want to set boundaries, that's freaking awesome! But why did you wait until you were reacting to something he did that upset you? Practice some of the actual quotes that cadence has given you as suggestions for a boundary talk with H, and then set a boundary. She's steering you exactly right and giving you actual things you can say to H.

I also agree with cadence about your ego getting the best of you with the "I'm not stupid" nonsense. That sounds very reactive. T, if you're going to put it out there that you know things, *really* drop allllll those cards on the table! Tell him: "I know where you are. I know where you've been. I know who you're talking to. And I've known it all along. You've lied to me about that ... and your motorcycle ... and that package that came to our front door ... and about who you're texting. And I've put up with it, hoping a little time would help you come to your senses about what you're doing AGAIN. But clearly, you're nowhere near that place, and my patience has run out, waiting on you to get there. Let's talk about a visitation schedule and child support, please."

Boom. Done. Checkmate. Move on.

Will he try to argue? Probably. Tell him he can speak once you've said what you need to say because you've heard nothing but lies coming out of his mouth for however-many months - and it's so bad that the only person who believes him anymore is himself. So IF he wants to speak once you're done, he can find his way to the nearest mirror and talk to it. Because YOU are DONE listening to his garbage and pretending you don't know the truth.

IF you're going to go nuts on him, go nuts like THAT ^^^. Immediately. Before he does something else that makes you react to him with the "I'm not stupid" stance.

Dig in both heels and stand your ground!

Congrats on last night's assignment! See? Anticipation is usually far worse than reality. (That goes for all areas in life.)


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whatever you say in person, if anything

(B/c I would write it out in a paragraph due to my concerns of escalation)

keep it BRIEF. WAS's cannot hear more than few sentences unless it's lavish praise.

Anything negative or controlling or non complying or adult like requests, that don't jive with their world view, is all

"blah blah blah 'nagging negative distrustful wife forcing me to leave so I can finally be happy" - noise.

So, keep it brief and stay on message. Do NOT be diverted by his responses b/c they do not matter.

You are giving him information, NOT having a conversation, so his response is not needed.


Unless his words relate to visitation, there's nothing else for him to say at this point.

It's NOT about the marriage or how you "never" trusted him and how tired HE is of not being trusted, and where ever else his verbal exit ramps lead. It's about your living arrangements.

Besides he's buying a house so what's going on with him in your home anyhow?

Looks exactly like he is trying to avoid abandonment accusations and doing some image management for himself.

Don't be diverted. Stay on message...keep it short.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Hi everyone,

thanks for reaching out at the advice. Wounded - my mom ordered a new lock set but I am waiting to do this per legal advice.

I saw a L today, going to file for D. paid a partial retainer just to get it filed and get the emergency support court dates set. I told her to give me a few days to finish the semester, spend some time with the kids before I go back to work next week, and next week I will get her all the information, that my heart needs to catch up with my brain and absorb everything.

She wants me to file, have him served, and not tell him it's coming. So that's my plan. She said i should have a conversation with him that is light and does not make him think I have retained legal advice. Something along the lines of H, this isn't working for either of us right now and I think it would be best for everyone if you were found your own living arrangements. I would like you out by next Friday, I will be changing the locks at that point.

I will be getting more money based on figures than he is paying now. She is very matter of fact and no BS... and she said H is obviously going to come out ahead because he makes a lot more money than he did coming into the relationship but that she knows I will be good in the long run.

I was doing good today until I got a text from H and I realize I am not detached enough.

H; I am going to my parents Wed Aug 24 to Mon Aug 29.
M: Are you taking the boys?
H: No, they have school
H: I was planning on going by myself this time and I will take them the following month up there for my bday weekend
M: Ok, it is okay if they miss school if they want to go.
H: Well now I'm not even sure if I'm going to go, plus I don't have a lot of money so I may not go and since I don't have a lot of money I won't be doing anything fun.

I didn't reply.
I know what he's doing. He bought concert tickets for a big country star (Who we see EVERY year for our anniversary together) and going for the concert. He is not going to stay with his parents. I wanted to SCREAM. I am SO SO SO sick of this. I am sick of feeling like this. That he is just free as a bird to go sleep with and engage in relationships with whomeever he wants while I'm left to pick up the pieces of our life and care for our children.

I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up, being gone all day at school and then spending 2.5 hours in the lawyers office. I am overwhelmed.

My heart and brain are fighting each other. I feel like this is it, once I file he's gone forever and I am eliminating all chances of him coming back.

And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy. He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.

He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.

I am spiraling down into these thoughts, which I recognized would happen after seeing the L because it's a harsh reality of what is about to come.

I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind. I am so heartbroken that he can go and be intimate on all levels with another woman while I am at home with our boys and newborn.

I wish you all could meet with me IRL and shake some sense into me.

So please don't get frustrated with me. I am having a really bad day. I am emotionally and physically exhausted. THe L today said she has no idea how I'm doing this all and she told me there is a special place for people like my H. Good news is she said it won't take 90-120 days. She said we will have a court date within 30 days. She said she will offer him to continue to pay what he is paying or we can go in front of a judge and he risk paying more.

So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home? I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.

And just say, like cadence said,

H, you have left and made it clear you do not want to be married anymore. It's time we set a schedule for childcare. I am not comfortable with you sleeping on the couch especially coming in late at night. I hope that you will find a suitable environment to take the boys to. Until you do, you can have the boys every other weekend and can return them here to sleep at night.

Question is, Do I go ahead and drop the bomb of everything I know or wait til a later time? I struggle with needing to tell him I know about this concert and that it's the exact same behavior as last time.

I am so sick of my dad telling me that I need to stop acting like there's a chance he's coming back. That he was never coming back since I found out about the flowers.

It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.

I just don't want to do this anymore. I want to climb in a hole and hide. I don't know why I deserve this again.

Thanks to everyone for listening, I know it's rough to read the same garbage.


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T:

Stop, breathe, and know that it is going to be ok. This is going to get better. It will hurt less. You and the boys are going to survive, and in time thrive. I am so happy you found a lawyer you like. It makes all the difference.

DO NOT say anything to him about what you "know." That is the same old fight, same old dance, same old dynamic. Limit the conversation to what you talked about with the lawyer. That it is not working, that he has until Friday, that you are changing the locks and he can see them on a weekend day until he has appropriate accommodations to have them overnight (don't get into the details of what that looks like).

The need to tell him about the concert thing is again you need to let him know you are smarter than him. I get it, I used to tell my H everything I knew the second I knew it. Now I tell him nothing and feel that I have much more power. I love that he has no idea what is going on here.

Do not in any way suggest or hint that the filing or service are coming. Let him think you are meek little T waiting for him at home. In that moment you will regain much of the respect that you have lost in this process. Only time will tell what he does with it. You cannot control how he responds.

I know you don't feel like it, but you really can do this. You already are.

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T3

you got some sensible legal advice today. Today.

Please take the advice, and do not blurt out things that are so Not helpful to you.

Drink a cup of STFU and relax. Yes your h is lying, again. Yes he is being selfish, again.

Yes he is cheating, again. And leaving you to pick up the pieces, which you are doing quite well.

Don't worry about what your parents are saying and for the life of me, I have no idea what option your mother thinks you have here.

Being nicer to him will....do what exactly?? You were buying a house and having a 3rd child and he pulled this crap.

It's NOT about you.

Please do as Own suggested and take a breath.

You need say nothing to your h, now.

Keep the texts and stop spinning and again, take a breath.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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You've got great advice, T.

As for the finality aspect regarding your filing for D, you know better. How do you explain when folks who get divorced get remarried? How do you explain people who pull the divorce before it's final to try to make it work?

You're taking a big step of standing up for yourself and how you deserve to be treated and I'm proud of you for that. I understand why it might feel scary, when your focus for so long has been keeping H happy with you.

I'm, again, not understanding why you feel like you need to tell him that you "know" and that you're "not dumb." Honestly, what is that about? Dig deep and ask yourself what you think you're accomplishing, because I don't think we're following.

Do you think that you can control someone's actions with words? Do you think any WH is going to say "Oh no, she knows what I'm doing. Obviously she thinks I'm dishonorable and that this isn't sensible. You know what? She's right." That reliably happens zero percent of the time.

Your H wants justification that he's doing the right thing. You don't see it, but your drive to prove something to him just gives him ammunition to justify what he's doing. Nope, you're calm, cool, and collected T. Let your limited words and limited actions show him that you're slipping away out of his control.

T, he's gone and what you say doesn't matter to him like it once did. You want to control him more now, but your words have less power. You accomplish nothing letting your WH know that you "know", other than giving him the negative attention he wants from you. So, instead, let your actions speak for you. He'll pay attention to those.

Great job with the L. I thought you could file for support/visitation separately from D, but if D is what you feel you need to pursue, go for it.

Your parents seem like lovely people, but I have to say that what you tell us they say to you frustrates me, somewhat. Here they are, sitting like the devil and the angel on your shoulders, whispering things that are not helping their anxious daughter's struggles. One gives you dire warnings, and the other wants you to be "nicer" to H, and no one is looking at what this actually does to T.

I really wish they'd stop airing their opinions of what it all "means" and just start supporting and validating you, because that's what you need. You don't need more speculation about H and what he's thinking and what it all "means". Those play upon your fears and anxieties and I don't think it's productive.

No one is annoyed with you, T. This was a hard day for you. We come back to your threads because we care and we know you need some guidance. Don't confuse constructive criticism with criticism; I haven't seen a single person post to you that wasn't coming from a caring place.

There is something about you that draws us to you, T. You're a courageous, vulnerable, and lovable person. Please start believing those things about yourself. You've got this.

P.S. I don't understand why he's texting you about the dates he's out of town a month from now. I see it as pursuit on his part. I don't say that to get your hopes up, but I don't get why he needed to text you that a month in advance. It seems odd. I might understand it if he was trying to schedule a trip for the boys (as you also expected), but that wasn't it.

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Originally Posted By: T384
Hi everyone,

thanks for reaching out at the advice. Wounded - my mom ordered a new lock set but I am waiting to do this per legal advice.

I saw a L today, going to file for D. paid a partial retainer just to get it filed and get the emergency support court dates set. I told her to give me a few days to finish the semester, spend some time with the kids before I go back to work next week, and next week I will get her all the information, that my heart needs to catch up with my brain and absorb everything.

please DO get her the paperwork. It has been a source of procrastination on my part that costs me more money actually. And it's obviously an example of me not getting my $hit together fast enough. It's pretty empowering once you know there's no homework hanging over your head.



She wants me to file, have him served, and not tell him it's coming. So that's my plan.
She said i should have a conversation with him that is light and does not make him think I have retained legal advice.


This^^^ is the plan. **Do not divert yourself (which is what the spinning is, a diversion and a sapper of your energy, and a self inflicted increase in your heart ache).


Something along the lines of H, this isn't working for either of us right now and I think it would be best for everyone if you were found your own living arrangements. I would like you out by next Friday, I will be changing the locks at that point.

I will be getting more money based on figures than he is paying now.

so can you see that the fear you had of him paying LESS, was not warranted and thus, there may be other fears you have that are equally unwarranted.

Just a gentle "hey, teaching point here"... cool



She is very matter of fact and no BS... and she said H is obviously going to come out ahead because he makes a lot more money than he did coming into the relationship but that she knows I will be good in the long run.

well, to be clear, he makes more money than you, and in that sense he "comes out ahead" financially. But the marriage is where his income increased - so he did not bring it into the marriage, he grew it inside the m. So some of it will be coming to you for X number of years.

You being "good in the long run" is what matters now. Really it's all that matters.

If he wins the lottery 3 years from now, that will not take food off your table. If he has a flat tire, your car won't increase in value. His "misery/happiness index" is not connected to yours.

He is going to be irrelevant.



I was doing good today until I got a text from H and I realize I am not detached enough.

T3, no you are not detached. To me, this is a conversation in which you give him all the power. I don't get it.


H; I am going to my parents Wed Aug 24 to Mon Aug 29.
M: Are you taking the boys?

**(T3, how about "h, are you ASKING me if you can take the boys?" -and if this is out of state, he will always need to ask you, btw).

H: No, they have school
H: I was planning on going by myself this time and I will take them the following month up there for my bday weekend


First, if he's not taking them, why even inform you of this trip? Who cares?

Second your h certainly has a sense of entitlement. IF I were still married and together with h, I would have checked with him about this^^. Not "announce" his trip next month taking the boys out of school and wherever.... Set some boundaries with this guy (AFTER you file).


M: Ok, it is okay if they miss school if they want to go.
H: Well now I'm not even sure if I'm going to go, plus I don't have a lot of money so I may not go and since I don't have a lot of money I won't be doing anything fun.


OMG what a whining baby man/boy, He realizes during the conversation that it's not consistent with his "I'm too poor to pay much" narrative. Oops.


I didn't reply.
I know what he's doing.

I can feel your pain accelerating now. It Does NOT matter what he's doing if it's not involving the boys. Seriously, ALL the stuff below that I crossed through, is you spinning and going down the rabbit hole with no happy exit. There's no tunnel to joy in this exercise of yours and it's totally self inflicted at this point.


He bought concert tickets for a big country star (Who we see EVERY year for our anniversary together) and going for the concert. He is not going to stay with his parents. I wanted to SCREAM. I am SO SO SO sick of this. I am sick of feeling like this.
That he is just free as a bird to go sleep with and engage in relationships with whomeever he wants while I'm left to pick up the pieces of our life and care for our children.

I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with
lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up,

Screwed up what last night ?? You mean how you told him you are "not stupid"? Let that go. Truly, let it go.

No one said you failed or screwed it up. We said you were making it worse for YOU.
Let it go, and get some sleep. That's probably the best way for your parents to help you at the moment. Care for the kids so you can nap.

I barely recall the first 6 months of each child's life b/c I was too exhausted to think or remember.


My heart and brain are fighting each other. I feel like this is it, once I file he's gone forever and I am eliminating all chances of him coming back.


Stop this^^^thinking. You just said he gets to go wherever he wants and leaves you to pick up the pieces and raise the boys alone. That is what is happening now.

Filing Is the only chance you have of him coming back. I swear I believe that. It's not why I think you should file, it's simply a possible benefit. This is not about punishing him. it is about saving yourself and your sons and MAYBE getting him to see a consequence of his choices.

He is eating so much cake right now, and seems he likes it! The only course of action you have to save your marriage is also the safe course of action for your sons and yourself!

IN that respect, your situation is CLEAR...there are no "better choices". As it is now, the situation is making you insane AND He's not improving or waking up. It's just the opposite.

Are you really wondering if you could just BE MORE LOVING, then he'd wake up?

Is that ^^ your question? Now that you see it in writing, what do you think?


And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy.

you have not "ignored" him for more than a few days and like I said, he pulled this crap when things were good and building to a 3rd child. This is SO not about you.

Your h has an established pattern.


Second, please stop taking polls with your family and just put your hand up when they comment in ways that are all about mind reading of your h.

Tell them you are doing the best you can and Drop it.


He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.



Stop pretending you can control any of what he does. That is key - dropping the rope.

You are continuing to try and decode this and to plan YOUR reactions to him. UGH


He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.


I will post this quote to you often, I guess. cool

"ENDLESS WONDERING IS ENDLESS SUFFERING." - Caroline Myss

Jack3beans was a veteran poster here, (a great man btw, RIP) used to say


**I hope the LBS realizes that many of the 'why' questions they absolutely think they have to have an answer too...they really do not. Everyone dies with unanswered questions, but that doesn't prevent us from living. Why should these.

In many cases the MLC answers are NOT good enough for the LBS anyway, so they keep digging, and damage any repairs that have been made.

Stop asking.


I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind.

the problem here^^^ is 2 fold. Obviously we cannot know, though most of us probably feel he will regret his choices. I do believe that.

But the second bigger problem is what YOU would do with his regrets, assuming he informed you of them.

For him to do this a second time means he never really wrapped HIS brain around the pain he inflicted on you or your older, aware, son.

So he's unlikely to grasp the magnitude of said pain.

Hurting the people who love you the most is just a terrible thing to do, let alone twice.

I Still, I struggled with the same question and the gross injustice of it all. The exponentially higher income my MD h earns, the pristine resume he has which I enabled him to get

while my resume has gaping holes in it - in which I was a SAHM instead of a law firm partner.
Now my career is starting over...

So I understand your pain. It is not fair. That is just true.

My concern for you is that even if we somehow "knew" your h would want back into the m in a year, or a week or a month, AND behaved consistently with that want,

etc.

is how you could still end up where I am. 10 years post "reconciliation" and then, being here again.

Now I'm 57 and my career issues are numbing, my dating prospects are a lot fewer and not as appealing to me as they were a decade ago.

-

I wish you all could meet with me IRL and shake some sense into me.

So please don't get frustrated with me. I am having a really bad day. I am emotionally and physically exhausted. THe L today said she has no idea how I'm doing this all

you have deep wells of resilience which are inspiring. Seriously. Truly.
\


and she told me there is a special place for people like my H. Good news is she said it won't take 90-120 days. She said we will have a court date within 30 days. She said she will offer him to continue to pay what he is paying or we can go in front of a judge and he risk paying more.

Very good!


So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home?

***DING DING Whoah NO. You have a plan - and it's not about talking tonight. PLUS you are not in emotional shape for this talk.


I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.

What's the rush given that you are filing soon? The L said to tell him in advance but why tonight or tomorrow?

Geez, T3, do you ever play poker? Time to keep your cards to yourself. It won't be long.


And just say, like cadence said,

H, you have left and made it clear you do not want to be married anymore. It's time we set a schedule for childcare. I am not comfortable with I don't want you sleeping on the couch especially coming in late at night. I hope that you will

You need to
find a suitable environment to take the boys to. Until you do, you can have the boys every other weekend and can return them here to sleep at night.

Question is, Do I go ahead and drop the bomb of everything I know or wait til a later time? I struggle with needing to tell him I know about this concert and that it's the exact same behavior as last time.


You struggle b/c you feel duped. Silence says a lot on it's own and you'll never regret it.

Plus the cat will be out of the bag soon enough.

Your need for "showing him" how smart you are is not a good reason to undermine potential legal arguments later.


I am so sick of my dad telling me that I need to stop acting like there's a chance he's coming back. That he was never coming back since I found out about the flowers.

It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.

People who tell you this^^ are well meaning. Remember that. If needed, tell them you are not ready to hear their opinions.

I learned a few months ago that h posted on FB that OW was the "love of his life."

let ^^^that sink in....

thank God my family did not tell me when he posted that b/c I might have gone nuts. At least I know i've never once blasted him publicly OR to his face or by text. No fb stalking.

H can fume all he wants and blame shift all he wants (and will, I assume). But to those who know both of us, I THINK his words ring hollow.

my sister said not a single mutual friend commented or liked his pics of OW and him "introducing the "new honey' to his family". His family did not mean our children btw.

There's been no contact between our children and h for nearly 7 months when he introduced" her. IOW the fb posts are not reflections of the truth.

And even if they were, I just cannot care b/c it hurts too much and seems so crazy, that has jettisoned my detachment efforts forward.

Can you let that work for you?



I just don't want to do this anymore. I want to climb in a hole and hide. I don't know why I deserve this again.

who said you "deserve" this? Um, no one. $h1tty things happen to a lot of people. My "takes care of her health" friend has multiple myeloma & lost her well paying job the same month.

Another dear friend lost her 22 y/o son to undiagnosed cardiac myopathy. He was a baseball player on his way to an interview, who collapsed in the parking lot at college.

Did he deserve it? Did my friend? Of course not. You were not chosen by God to suffer injustice.

You may be given more inner peace, strength and guidance if you are open to it, but this dishonesty from your h is NOT an indictment of you.

Your h is not the hero and you are not the villain.

Thanks to everyone for listening, I know it's rough to read the same garbage.



at some point you will get tired of feeling the same garbage. I do hope you re-read the posts people write to you.

Because there is comfort to be found there. You are not alone.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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T,

WAY TO GO, getting legal advice. And now that you have legal advice and you're filing, please ignore my previous post. That was me saying: IF you're going to go off on him again, just lay all the cards on the table.

No sense in getting into that with him now that you're filing. I agree with the others.

Big step today. I'll write more later, but I'm sending you hugs. I know you're overwhelmed and this isn't easy.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
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And PS heck to the no. Today ain't the day to have that talk with H that L told you to have.

Please get some rest tonight.

Tomorrow is a new day. You will feel a bit better.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Thank you all for your kind words. I want you to know I'm here reading them several times. I appreciate all of your support with me so much and it means the world to me. This place is my saving grace and unfortunately I rely on you all to guide me in my actions and decisions in this situation because my friends and family are biased and don't really know the right thing to do.

So I just wanted all of you to know I appreciate you.

I will address the posts tomorrow when I'm a little more level headed.

Had a quiet night tonight. I picked up a friend of the boys on the way home from the L and surprised them with that. Got some homework done and just hung out. H got here tonight doesn't talk to me as normal but came outside to talk with me and the friends dad when he got here. We came in I made a comment to H about how the cats enjoy sleeping on this new box in the garage and laughed. He jus tshrugged his shoulders and was obviously in a bad mood so I walked away. That's the first time I've said anything to him in days. H then told me he had no money to pay the electric bill and was going to have to scrounge up the cash. I thanked him for installing the new dryer and went about my business.

I know tonight wasn't the night to have the conversation so I didn't.

L advised me to tell him asap to move out though and give him until next Friday to be out.


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Oh and before I forget.... I can't file for support without filing D....


I'm not detached enough to want D. Divorce is NOT what I want but it's what I have to do to get an order for support.

Do you all feel this is the best choice for me to file even though it's not what I want? I know it's what H wants right now and I guess it would be releasing the rope but I would solely be filing because I need $$


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You're doing the right - and only - thing.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
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Yes, I think we are all in agreement in your sitch it is time to file. Right now you need financial support you can rely on, you need a safe space (without him coming and going as he pleases, that is crazy), and you and the children need a clear and organized custody schedule. Your stability and your sanity need this right now. You are not pushing him away (he is gone and told you this is what he wants) and if anything you are empowering yourself here so you can start to create healthy boundaries and detach.

The future can always change and you know that. You are so afraid to let go--as if you have another option--when really it serves you in two ways. Not only do you allow yourself detachment, but you also do increase the chance he will pull his head our of his arse and start thinking wiser. ... I hate to say this, but I imagine at some point (maybe a long while) he will realize what he is losing and come back. And (hate to say this even more) I hope you are moved on by then. You deserve much better than the abuse, neglect, and adulterous chaos this man has put you and these kids through for so long. I would guess that strong and confident T would agree.

I believe there are plenty of good men out there that would be honored to be a part of your's life and your children's lives some day.

You are doing great tho--we are proud of you!!!
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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T,

As adults we know that we don't always get to make decisions based on what we want. I think if that were the case, none of us would be here.

I'm very concerned that a guy who buys boats, motorcycles, goes to more concerts in a month than I've been to in my life can't pay an electric bill. That would be sending shock waves through me.

You've said he's paying you less than you are entitled to. You like your lawyer. When we hire a professional, one of the things we do often is to defer to their opinion and their advice. Now that you have a lawyer you like, you have to decide if you are willing to do that.

I think you want your H to wake up, if he's going to, and feel the consequences of the actions he took. Of the stories on this board of men who came back I think Train and Blu are most telling. They are both tough love ladies. I believe from reading their posts that both of their Hs knew, without a doubt, that those fine ladies were moving on.

I've read a lot of Sandi's stuff. Sandi is also a tough lover. She talks a lot about the loss of respect these folks feel for their partner.

I don't see any respect at all in the way your H treats you. I don't see that you have demanded any respect for yourself. I would be curious to see if that would change your situation. Even if it did not, I have observed that the people who take control of the situation and guide the course of their actions tend to be happier with their situations than those of us who sit nicely by, biding our time, paving the way home, being the lighthouse, letting them eat cake, and standing.

I am going to say this for your benefit (and 25s who I am sure is going to see this), I wish that I had done things differently. I wish I had filed for divorce in 2011 when I learned about the emotional affair. I wished I had filed for divorce in 2013 when I got ILYBINILWU. I wish I had filed for divorce in 2015 when I learned about his online profiles. And I sure as H8ll wish I had filed for divorce in January 2016 when I learned about his PA. I am a super strong, independent, financially-secure, hardass who litigates for a living. I lost all my self-respect and his respect.

Now as it turns out my L is telling me not to file for D now, but my circumstance is quite a bit different with my H's narcissism, high income, and history of providing well for me and the kids. What she has drilled into my head is to stop being afraid. To stop waiting for him to agree. To stop waiting for him to be ready. And to start taking decisive action, including moving far away without telling him first.

T the only thing worse than losing your marriage is losing your self respect. The good thing is, you can get it back. Will your H turn around? Who knows. But I've seen you describe him as weak and easily influenced by others. Not attractive. I've seen you refer to his incessant lies. Not attractive. I've seen you describe his laziness. Not attractive.

Seems to me like a guy with a good income who spends every penny he has and couldn't make a sound financial decision to save his life. Seems like a guy who runs off every time life isn't fun because of, you know, stuff like responsibility.

You are this amazingly compassionate, intelligent, driven, successful woman who can do more in a day than I do in a week. Man I wish I had your energy and your drive. Why in god's name would you want to be with this loser?

Is it history? Here's the thing about history, it tends to repeat itself barring dramatic change. Has this guy changed? Doesn't sound like it. Is he seeking out the help he needs? Doesn't sound like it. Is he planning out his new and happier life? I don't think so.

My daughter, then 16, came to me and said mom I've lost respect for you for allowing this man to treat you like this. Do not do this on my behalf and do not do this on my brother's behalf. I did not kick him to the curb until this girl said please make him leave. He is making our lives miserable. Please don't make your sons come to you some day and tell you something like that.

If there is a man of character and/or substance in there somewhere, he will find his way out of this and do the right thing. If there isn't, he will keep circling the drain.

Read the stories of the folks whose spouses didn't come back. Some of the posters I respect the most fall into that category. These people, some with kids and some without, rediscovered their self-respect, most are in relationships that they describe as superior and have so much insight into what went wrong, and why, and what they did and/or didn't do.

Divorce or no divorce, do you want to keep living the life you have or do you want something better for yourself and your kids? If you keep on the path you are you'll probably still be here years from now talking about separation 3, 4, 5, etc. because you'll take him back the first time he waivers or gets afraid. Or, you can be a Train or a Blu who owned their power and saved their marriages against all hope, or an Accuracy or Another Stander, a 25, a job, a Cadet, a kml, a peacetoday, etc., who found a different kind of life that brought them knowledge, peace, confidence, respect, etc. Only you can make these choices.

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Originally Posted By: T384
Oh and before I forget.... I can't file for support without filing D....


I'm not detached enough to want D. Divorce is NOT what I want but it's what I have to do to get an order for support.

Do you all feel this is the best choice for me to file even though it's not what I want? I know it's what H wants right now
and I guess it would be releasing the rope but I would solely be filing because I need $$



I do not care a whit about what your h wants or thinks he wants.

Stop the mind reading b/c it gets you nowhere. Trust only his actions...


Needing money is why many people file. Like a LOT.

My h went off to Alaska saying HE did "not want a divorce"..and God knows I did not.

But then he left and cut off the joint checking account with our marital cash...again I did not want to divorce.

But i had $700 and I had just gotten out of the hospital for adult onset seizures/epilepsy. I was in such a haze with the zapped brain and new medications that I really did not appreciate the extent of his $h1t until my family kept calling and howling at me to "see a L asap!" We had moved 10 months earlier to a new area FOR H's job. So I knew 2 people.

So I saw a L, and told him everything and my fear was mostly that I was simply screwed and would have to "ask" h for money to get any (but I got radio silence when I did ask)

So that led me to file 3 days later (4 days after h left).

2 of my sisters flew out to pack me, along with my older kids driving up with some LA friends too. BIL drove me and my dog, cross country in a moving van...and I moved into my sister's basement with my dog for 4 months. Now I have a condo near the subway in case I have another seizure and can't drive again, (for 3 years if I have a seizure while on medication).

To reiterate

I did not want a divorce. H SAID he did not want a divorce.
Just needed to "reboot the marriage (& other times blurted out that he knew and I should "know" that I'd "come running up to Alaska in a year"....) I suspect h wanted me as a back up plan or he wanted to explore OW and an adventure and probably told himself he was being FAIR and was forced to do this b/c he was unhappy.

BTW He never once told me he was miserable or unhappy or wanted counseling or anything indicating dissatisfaction in the m. Not once. We had a good sex life too. I So yeah, I was reeling for a long time.

Of course I NOW see things I did not see then, but that is another story.

So no I did not want a divorce or to lose the dreams I had of us growing old together and ME finally getting "my turn" and us traveling with our 2 pensions and nest egg

Only to now be financially strapped or screwed?

OMG I felt SO vulnerable. At the time I filed I did not know about any OW.

if I had known back last autumn, there would have been zero hesitation. And little conscious hope for a recon - b/c I'd know deep deep down, that I'd be unable to piece after a second ordeal. I mean, in theory maybe...

T3 Listen...
I NEVER suspected my h was capable of this type of treatment, (and to my knowledge he never behaved this way before). For me there were too many red flags.

Your h has a history and you are financially vulnerable in a way that only gets addressed by filing (in your state anyhow).

You have an openly "done" h, who is seeing OWs, who randomly rotates through the home,

And who whines about not having enough money to "have any fun" cry (ding ding ding!! Money alert & Kids at risk..)

T3 even without the boundaries and self respect that are factors in filing, I believe you have to for your financial well being and your sons

It could be argued that without an agreement (which Florida doesn't really have without filing for Div)

it'd be irresponsible of you to ignore the financial red flags. It would be very risky to your boys to keep taking a chance on this.

You said your h spent a lot of money on OW1 last time. Thus, It's not as if you are not forewarned about his spending habits.

And now you have another son who will cost money to support.

I honestly see no option for you and I don't think I'm projecting.

PS

1/3 of divorces filed in CA are never completed. Presumably many of the ones who fade out do so b/c they reconcile.

I do not believe you can reconcile with your h anytime soon...Not saying it's impossible. I always think there is hope and with a lot of time for you to heal (calmer, less reactive)

and your h to unscrew his brain and reattach it, (to get distance and time for him to SEE the grass is not greener AND for him to do some real work, which he clearly skimmed last go round ) who knows? Couples do remarry their exes, but usually it's a few years down the road. Which makes sense.

So I would prepare to handle yourself with as much dignified confidence as possible, and move forward.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: Train
You're doing the right - and only - thing.


i guess I could've just said ":THIS^^^"


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I agree with OwnIt. You didn't choose this situation. He doesn't care about your thoughts or feelings right now. And no-one knows if a) he will return to your M or b) if you will still want him if he does after this. So don't worry about any of that...just focus on what you need to do next to restore some calm, stability and control for you and the kids.

Your L sounds fab. Do what she tells you, no more and no less. On everything else, drink the STFU smoothie and give him no insight into your feelings or plans. Assume he will lie and assume that he will always put his needs in front of you and the kids right now. You can be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't, but safer to assume the worst.

You are doing fantastically well in a truly s**tty situation and you should be proud of yourself.


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Everything 25 and everyone else said.

I didn't file for divorce because i wanted to. I just didn't see any other option. But once I started the process I began to feel more at peace with the end of the marriage because the life I envisioned for myself was so much calmer and more manageable than the one I was living AND the one I had been living while he was with us.

Imagine your life without your H. What will it be like? I'd love to see you (once you're caught up) actually write out a vision for yourself of what your life is like without him, and see how it feels. Do it here. Happy T is such a pleasure. smile

GREAT JOB on the academic success! You are truly an inspiration.


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I second the inspiration part. T, I must admit, when I'm feeling low on motivation and I think of all that you're able to do.

You did what you needed to do. H put his feelings as a priority a long time ago, and that means you must do the same. He's really given you no choice. It's a difficult habit to stop considering their feelings, but logic tells us they already stopped considering ours when they left. The only thing that matters now is you setting up an H free life for you and the boys, assuming that things won't work out, because that is what is best for you.

What you are doing is ok. Not only ok, it is fantastic because you are advocating for yourself and your boys.

I imagine that H will be mad when he gets served. He really wanted to maintain control over you and convince you that he was just trying to get space/think. In other words, he wanted you to sit nicely on the shelf where he placed you, in case his amazing new life doesn't pan out. Be prepared to shut your phone off or do whatever you need to do to not listen to the manipulation he's probably going to serve up to you when he is served. My guess is he's going to try to guilt trip you; that you ruined everything. Do not listen to the mad man. He was hoping you'd help him with his ego such that he could gracefully exit the marriage with few repercussions. He is selfish, and thinks the marital vows only apply to you.

And I am also on board to listen to your L and not tip him off. I think it's adorable that you were laughing about the cats and the box in the garage. That's my T: not letting this selfish man take down your spirit. I tried to do the same before I left the house, because it was a matter of pride. I was not going to give him anything to justify his choices, and I was going to show him I was still the same funny, pretty, kind, and smart person he fell for; it's just none of it was flowing directly toward him anymore.

I was a bit pathetic in setting up something for myself before I went. I had a new outfit, I styled my hair in a new way, and I had a friend texting me repeatedly as I prepared to leave for the evening. I had my phone's ringer on, so my phone kept chirping and I'd pick it up every three or so texts and giggle. I even was rolling my eyes and shaking my head a little bit, because man did this mysterious texter want to talk to me! He sat watching me as I stopped in front of a mirror and primped a bit. I wanted him to see that I was going to be happy no matter what he did, and I wanted to remind him what he was losing. And then I left for the evening and came home late. I was really at a friend's dinner party, but he didn't need to know that. smile

T, even if things don't eventually work out with H, you are lovely, intelligent, devoted, and funny. Picture a life with the boys having a respectable and emotionally stable stepfather, because that could happen. In fact, start acting like it. You don't need H and other men will pursue you. I'm not saying to get involved or talk to anyone, but simply to let that knowledge boost your spirits and try to have a little fun with this absurd situation. The cats in the boxes in the garage is exactly the type of attitude I'd like to see more of. No matter what H does, you're still T, and you can still have fun and know your value as a woman.

And I'm pretty sure after your second round of this, if/when you start dating, stability and respectability are going to be high on your attraction list. You'd want A Man, one who is not searching for external happiness, one who follows through on commitments and who doesn't randomly leave when he begins to feel empty (and he blames that feeling on you.)

Your mixed feelings and your struggles are natural for where you are in this process. You had spent so long walking on the eggshells that H laid down in front of you.

Please cut yourself a break and be good to yourself. If you have time, maybe sneak out and do something nice for yourself (a new pedicure, or a new outfit) to celebrate overcoming the adversity H has introduced and not only surviving, but thriving.

And don't forget to nurture your spirit, too. You've mentioned PTSD from H's first round, so have you made treating that a priority? You want to be the best you that you can be, if H gets his act together (and he's got a great deal to get together), or if you start dating in the future. Bringing this emotional baggage into a new relationship wouldn't be fair and would increase the possibility that you don't find happiness.

Insecure attracts and is attracted to insecure (manifesting in different ways). Secure attracts and is attracted to secure. You want to be in the latter group to make sure you devote yourself to A Good Man.

H's worst nightmare is losing his perceived sense of control over you, you filing, and - heaven forbid - you realizing that you are a catch and acting as such. You're already working on the first and second (though H doesn't know about the second), so work on the third, too. Do something that makes you feel good and reminds yourself that you are beautiful, and it's too bad H has his selfish blinders on, because once you're a free agent your dance card will be full.

I hope this was helpful. I know you're going to feel down and second guess yourself, and I hope you don't put yourself through that. You had no choice. You're just picking up the pieces of what H chose to destroy.

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Hey, T, I think I remembered that right before your H came back last time that you had actually started talking to a doctor who had an interest in you. Am I remembering right?

I hope you'll imagine what life is like without your H in it. And that you'll tell us exactly why you're still hoping to get him back. Is he platinum plated or something? Because he doesn't sound like a catch at ALL from here.

Keep on swimming, T!!


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D12, S8, S7
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PS, FWIW, I don't think it's a great idea to imagine a new guy in your life quite yet. Give yourself some space to rest before that happens.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
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Wow, some amazing posts here, especially what OwnIt posted yesterday. Incredible stuff!

T, hang in there, you're doing awesome even though it doesn't feel like it to you. You are going to come out of this stronger and better than ever. I think a lot of us can see the future "after T" better than you do, and we see an amazing, strong, independent woman that is ready for anything. You'll get there sooner than you think.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Goodness, you all are W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L!

I had a rough night with the baby up every 1-2 hours. Believe it or not he's cutting a tooth... my boys never got teeth until 5-6 months old so it's odd seeing an almost 3 month old drooling so much and he's not coordinated enough to hold a teething ring or anything.

I am going to go back to all of your posts and try to address each of you and your thoughts so if I miss someone it's not intentional.

But before I type that long post I'm going to put this out there because I was thinking A L O T last night, probably too much for my own good. Filing D for me feels like giving up. Like I am in agreement with his choices. I get it that I have no other option and this is what he wants. I hope that in time I will accept that I had no other choice. I REALLY am struggling with feeling like *I* could have done something different, that *I* pushed him away like he says, and that things would have been okay if I would have just left him alone. My heart is telling me things could have been okay if I would have just not said anything all those months. I know it doesn't matter but I am beating myself up over it.

Secondly, do any of you think I should try and have a conversation with H to see if he is willing to agree on support and visitation and then offer to have it legally drawn up? Or do you all really think it's best just to have him served out of nowhere? I just know serving him is going to create mass chaos. We have all my hospital bills coming in that he is trying to pay plus our taxes and other bills. I know he is very stressed about that and so far he's been paying everything. He bought the new dryer the other night and took care of that. I am NOT by any means sticking up for him because this is all his responsibility. I am just I guess playing devils advocate if I should give him the opportunity to agree to paying/childcare before just having him served out of nowhere. Last time we talked he knew I didn't want D and I feel like it's being calculating... which he has been this entire time.

I went out to the living room this morning to find he had wrote down a list of all the bills he pays and conveniently left it out on the table for me. This is because last night I reminded him the electric was past due (I normally pay) and I said I had paid half and the other half was due.

Okay, so I guess I'm just looking for everyone's opinions on those things.

And when should I have the conversation about moving out, after I've filed but before he's served? I feel like I am losing my mind not knowing what the heII to do and so afraid of doing the wrong thing. I'm just not ready for what's about to come, I recognize that.

And in the conversation if he tries to bite back about not being able to afford to move out... where do I go with that? Because I know that's going to come. I was thinking of H, this is a decision you wanted. It is not in my best interest or the boys to be here with you coming late at night and being disrespectful with your involvement with other women while remaining in our family home --- and end it there.

Can someone just provide me the manual on how to do these things? lol


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Don't think there is a manual, ha ha - but it is about your boundaries, and being really brave & honest about them. And being able to stick with the consequences of them whatever he does.

Breathe and think. What are your biggest fears? And the most pressing ones? What are your top 3 priorities right now?

Please remind yourself. Your H made this choice without discussion. There may be things that could have been improved in your M or life, but he removed the chance to talk about them. Instead, he decided to have an A and (partially) leave you and your kids in limbo. This is not your fault or responsibility. Has he taken the initiative to calmly propose a generous way to give you and his family some financial & practical stability while he runs away? What has he actually done which is about what YOU need as opposed to what HE wants? And if he hasn't, why do you think he would do that now? And do you think him being 'willing to agree' anything means he will stick to it or not rage about how tough it is for him?

I know this is grim and I know you must feel overwhelmed so you doubt your own judgement. You trusted your L, I think, and her advice? What's changed?


Me: 53 H:38
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Originally Posted By: Maybell
PS, FWIW, I don't think it's a great idea to imagine a new guy in your life quite yet. Give yourself some space to rest before that happens.


I was really settled, devoted, and invested in my life with H, only to have that taken away. Picturing a happy future with a (nameless, faceless) guy helps me to know that it's going to be okay no matter what and reminds me that the loss of H isn't the end of my story. I'm a one-guy woman and so this helps me put my future in context.

However, it's not me picturing any specific person and I know I'm not ready to date yet. smile

If it's not an exercise that helps T when she's feeling this loss, that's ok.

Quote:
My heart is telling me things could have been okay if I would have just not said anything all those months. I know it doesn't matter but I am beating myself up over it.


T, it's okay to have these feelings. This is the part of you that very much wants to believe you have control over other people. It's linked to your spiraling, when you are soothsaying and picking apart his every move. You want to predict, and know, and thus feel in control.

We think H is W because he is listening to his feelings. He is molding reality to fit his current feelings. From the outside looking in, that doesn't make much sense, because reality doesn't change based on how someone is feeling. Feelings should be based on reality, right?

Your heart is telling you your feelings. Your feelings are natural, but should you allow them to be the only thing guiding your behavior and choices?

Quote:
Secondly, do any of you think I should try and have a conversation with H to see if he is willing to agree on support and visitation and then offer to have it legally drawn up? Or do you all really think it's best just to have him served out of nowhere?


Go with what your L says.

If I get a vote, at this point, where this man is using your home as a hotel and telling you he can't pay a utility bill despite the motorcycles, concerts, and illegal steroids he can afford, I vote for the latter.

Quote:
I am just I guess playing devils advocate if I should give him the opportunity to agree to paying/childcare before just having him served out of nowhere.


T, he fired you from being his wife. You are still compelled to view him through the lens of wife, where you protect him from adversity and hardship.

Does he do the same for you? Or is he willfully introducing adversity and hardship into your life?

Look at him as he is today, not as how you want him to be.

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And when should I have the conversation about moving out, after I've filed but before he's served?


What did your L say? If you didn't ask, it might worth a phone call or email to find out what she recommends. But I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing that you wish he'd get his own place. That's wholly different from telling him to move out.

Quote:
I feel like I am losing my mind not knowing what the heII to do and so afraid of doing the wrong thing.


You are overthinking and your mind is torturing you with the idea that you have some control over the outcome, and you don't. As long as you are acting with your best interest (and your sons' best interest) in mind, and you are acting from a place of integrity and courage, you're doing the best thing.

H created a situation where any person with secure self-esteem would begin prioritizing themselves. You are not doing anything crazy here. You're in school and you have three little ones. H has done this before, and the last time he did, he stopped contributing toward finances. You are using all the information that you have and you are taking a stand that you are your priority, and H has made his bed.

Deference to H doesn't make him come back. What makes him doubt his choice to leave is seeing a strong confident T who isn't afraid to lose him. This is the exact opposite of what your instincts are screaming at you to do, but, oftentimes, facing a loss isn't the time to listen to instincts. If we are insecure in any way, our instincts will lead us astray and work against our goals.

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I'm just not ready for what's about to come, I recognize that.


I don't know if anyone ever is.

Listen, H left, and he put you in a situation you didn't want to be in. That was his choice. You couldn't have changed it. You couldn't have forced him to choose differently.

And now you're making the best of a situation you never wanted and you're prioritizing yourself and your security.

When you're spinning, go read other success stories all the way through. Look for when the LBS advocates for themselves, and look how it can still work out in the end.

Also, get out of your own head and go give some other people advice! You're good at it.

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Oh, and:

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And in the conversation if he tries to bite back about not being able to afford to move out... where do I go with that? Because I know that's going to come. I was thinking of H, this is a decision you wanted. It is not in my best interest or the boys to be here with you coming late at night and being disrespectful with your involvement with other women while remaining in our family home --- and end it there.


Why do you even have to talk to him? Why do you have to defend your choice to file?

You do not owe him an explanation. It seems crazy to me that you're prepping your detailed explanations to defend a very rational choice.

If he couldn't afford his own place, it looks like he didn't think this through very well. That's on him. It is not your problem.

T, he left because everything was your fault. You're right that filing for D means everything will be your fault. It's up to you if you spend any of you brainpower giving validity to his claims, such that you need to defend yourself to the man who left you when you had a newborn.

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H sent me a text and said

We need to sit down and go over finances one night soon. I can't afford everything I am paying right now.

Do I bother responding to this??

I see on the phone bill he has been talking to that WONDERFUL woman his mother got involved, the one with 4 kids, divorced, remarried, etc, that tells him her children are the happiest in their classes compared to the kids with intact families. I mean hundreds of messages a day and talking on the phone during the day at work and on the way home. She's 15 years his senior and hasn't spoke to him since last BD. I know I can't control him talking to her, but I wish she would get out of his ear.

Treasur- thanks for stopping by. I do like the L and she thinks H is an A$$ and that's why she said serve him. She understands that I am not ready for that though but told me I can NEVER take him back after this... I just said I think I know that but my brain and heart aren't aligned, YET.

Yes these are all H's choices... I don't know why I want to be nice. Thank you for those words. He doesn't deserve for me to be bending over for him. He hasn't bent his knee for me once in months even as I was carrying our unborn son. These are the things I need to remember when I feel sad for him.

So what's changed is that this person, the calculating, serve him behind his back person is not an attractive person. It will further fuel he is making the right choice. That he has to get away from me because I am so controlling. Ugh this stuff [censored].

I just want to be the person only a fool leaves. I'm not sure me having a sheriff show up to serve him unknowingly is that person. That's what he did to me last time. Do I want to stoop to his level?


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Quote:
So what's changed is that this person, the calculating, serve him behind his back person is not an attractive person. It will further fuel he is making the right choice. That he has to get away from me because I am so controlling.


Woman: stop drinking H's kool-aid. The voice that is telling you these things is the voice that he wants you to have. The insecure woman who will take and justify whatever he dishes out, and doubt herself in the process.

Also, how is it controlling if you simply seek to formalize his choice?

It kind of sounds like you see anything that goes against what H wants from you (to sit nicely in that space on the shelf he made for you while he goes out in search of fun and freedom) as trying to control him. How does that work?

Quote:
We need to sit down and go over finances one night soon. I can't afford everything I am paying right now.


I'm not sure how you respond to his text. I'd send it to your L and ask what you should say.

However, I am bristling at the "we need to". He doesn't get to dictate what you "need to" do because he's not being an H to you any longer. And where does he get off telling you what you need to do when his less-than-brilliant planning has him tight on finances? Perhaps he should have thought it through a little bit better.

Funny how he found money for concert tickets, though, right?

Quote:
I just want to be the person only a fool leaves. I'm not sure me having a sheriff show up to serve him unknowingly is that person. That's what he did to me last time. Do I want to stoop to his level?


T. Stop. Listen to yourself. Look at the words on the page that you just typed. Imagine someone else typing them and how you'd feel reading about their situation. Step out of your head.

Why is it okay for him to do it to you, and you don't radically change your outlook on his value as a person, but for some reason you can't do the same thing and have confidence in yourself?

The woman only a fool leaves has confidence in herself, and doesn't put the feelings of an H who walked out for the second time when she had a newborn before her own feelings.

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Right Cadence, he had the money for concert tickets, a flight up north, testosterone injections, new lift kit for his truck, etc.

So that's why I don't feel there's much to discuss.. so now he wants to talk ? Because it's convenient for him. Because it benefits him.

So do I need to respond or just say nothing?

Listen Cadence, I know you get frustrated with me (I'm saying this in a loving tone BTW :))

But I DO appreciate your words, I know it is frustrating but I don't see it the way you see it UNTIL you write it. The way I see what I'm seeing or feeling is how I see things UNTIL you guys point out otherwise.

My dad said I have been so emotionally beat down by H that I've lost myself. That the old T wouldn't dare put up with this crap. They said he is manipulating me to believe what he's saying and that he's doing a good job because he has me believing this is my fault.


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I'm with cadence here...but if it really feels not you-ish (if you know a bit of you is doing it out of spite, or you think you'll feel good about it for a day but regret it in a year), why not ask your L to suggest a middle-ground prompted by his text about finances?

You do need to be canny though because if you give him too much notice, there are plenty of stories here of spouse's emptying or freezing joint accounts. Talk to your L. Help her help you find a more T-ish way to do what you know you need to do for you and your little ones. x


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Ps And I think you should listen to your Dad. I miss mine but I know he'd be saying something similar if he were still alive.


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Originally Posted By: T384
Goodness, you all are W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L!

I had a rough night with the baby up every 1-2 hours. Believe it or not he's cutting a tooth... my boys never got teeth until 5-6 months old so it's odd seeing an almost 3 month old drooling so much and he's not coordinated enough to hold a teething ring or anything.

oh man, I never thought about that^^. Cute but sad.


I am going to go back to all of your posts and try to address each of you and your thoughts so if I miss someone it's not intentional.

But before I type that long post I'm going to put this out there because I was thinking A L O T last night, probably too much for my own good. Filing D for me feels like giving up. Like I am in agreement with his choices. I get it that I have no other option and this is what he wants. I hope that in time I will accept that I had no other choice. I REALLY am struggling with feeling like *I* could have done something different, that *I* pushed him away like he says, and that things would have been okay if I would have just left him alone. My heart is telling me things could have been okay if I would have just not said anything all those months. I know it doesn't matter but I am beating myself up over it.


even if ALL of ^^^these things are true, (which they are not) it would not change the fact that you are in a no win position now. Your h's choices got you here even you jumped on the "push him" wagon too soon.

The only safe healthy financial smart choice you have is to file. And it's not giving up. It's reality



Secondly, do any of you think I should try and have a conversation with H to see if he is willing to agree on support and visitation and then offer to have it legally drawn up? Or do you all really think it's best just to have him served out of nowhere?

T3, listen to your L. Please....why on earth would you want a h who is "done" and already seeing OWs to know you're about to file?? Your h has plans for another life and is already living it.



I just know serving him is going to create mass chaos. We have all my hospital bills coming in that he is trying to pay plus our taxes and other bills. I know he is very stressed about that and so far he's been paying everything. He bought the new dryer the other night and took care of that. I am NOT by any means sticking up for him because this is all his responsibility. I am just I guess playing devils advocate if I should give him

No I think you are stalling out. Mind reading, anticipating and fearing...



the opportunity to agree to paying/childcare before just having him served out of nowhere. Last time we talked he knew I didn't want D and I feel like it's being calculating... which he has been this entire time.


"Served out of nowhere" - really? And so you think asking him to pay some bills before serving him, will achieve a --- positive reaction from your H? T3, your L said he is already paying LESS now than he will be in a divorce and marital debt is marital debt that will be apportioned to you proportionally.





I went out to the living room this morning to find he had wrote down a list of all the bills he pays and conveniently left it out on the table for me. This is because last night I reminded him the electric was past due (I normally pay) and I said I had paid half and the other half was due.

so there's no real financial reason to talk to him about his paying more now....which he will do once the D is filed. I think you are confusing yourself.


Okay, so I guess I'm just looking for everyone's opinions on those things.

And when should I have the conversation about moving out, after I've filed but before he's served? I feel like I am losing my mind not knowing what the heII to do and so afraid of doing the wrong thing. I'm just not ready for what's about to come, I recognize that.

And in the conversation if he tries to bite back about not being able to afford to move out... where do I go with that? Because I know that's going to come.


First off, your L will assist you in this^^ and it's highly doubtful this future problem will last long.

Second, stop borrowing trouble. You can let future T3 deal with this^^^ b/c Today's T has a lot on her plate at the moment.



I was thinking of H, this is a decision you wanted. It is not in my best interest or the boys to be here with you coming late at night and being disrespectful with your involvement with other women while remaining in our family home --- and end it there.

Can someone just provide me the manual on how to do these things? lol

oh the MANUAL!!! Yeah, I can't find it.

I saw a LOT of rough drafts around here and many different editions but they are apparently not applicable now.

Maybe we should write a new one.



M: 57 H: 60
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Quote:
Listen Cadence, I know you get frustrated with me (I'm saying this in a loving tone BTW :))


Thank you for the loving tone. And, said right back to you in a loving tone: "I don't blame you for being emotional today and I'm not frustrated with you. At all!"

Don't take any outrage with the way you talk to yourself in your head as criticism of you. It's more that I'm outraged that you're putting yourself through this and I'm hoping to shake you out of it.

Quote:
So do I need to respond or just say nothing?


I'd wait for others to chime in, and I'd ask your L, but I would lean toward saying nothing until you have a better idea of the direction you want to take. There's no emergency that you need to respond to. Just let it sit.

Quote:
My dad said I have been so emotionally beat down by H that I've lost myself. That the old T wouldn't dare put up with this crap. They said he is manipulating me to believe what he's saying and that he's doing a good job because he has me believing this is my fault.


I agree.

T, he's done this before, and he came back saying he'd made a mistake. Now he leaves after you bought a home together and after you had a planned third child, and you think it's your fault?

Step outside of your head and look at it how outsiders see it. It's somewhat absurd, and he's not doing it because you're so monstrous to him. He's doing it because he thinks that happiness should come from an external source, and we all know that's not accurate, but that's up to him to discover.

You have to let him go and let him fall. Just like your sons, when they were learning to walk around and discover. You'd let them go, even though it was bittersweet that they were growing up. H has told you he needs to leave, and you've got to let him go. You are doing this because you love yourself, he's told you over and over what he wants, and you have the integrity to allow him what he wants.

Him feeling controlled is not the same thing as you controlling him.

You are a kind-hearted woman who cares very deeply for him, but you've got to make yourself cut off the supply of caring, and shift your empathy toward yourself. If H hadn't chosen this route, you'd still be caring for him and his feelings, but he fired you from the position where it makes sense for you to hurt on his behalf.

And, honestly, hurting for him and feeling guilt are natural for the place you're in. But you don't want to allow yourself to remain in that place, because that would be the behavior of a codependent person.

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Quote:
And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy. He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.


What were you expecting? You are suppose to be dropping the rope........not watching him and measuring how far he has distanced himself. This is probably something you don't want to hear, but I'm going to say it anyway. I think your H is really done with this M. I think the only way he will return is if he was without anybody else and returned home for the security. If he doesn't do well living alone, or being alone in a relationship.......then if he is abandoned, he'll run back home like a little boy seeking the comfort and security of his family.

Is that who you want? If so, how long would it be until he had a new female interest? The information you were given about him being in a R when he first met you and started talking, etc.........said something to me. Has he ever lived alone anytime in his life? He begins a new romance before he leaves the old one. When he was dumped by the previous live-in, he really panicked and went running home to you......and would have promised ANYTHING under the sun, just to get back where he felt safe again. I think the reason he goes to your house is b/c he doesn't want to be alone on the nights he shows up. Although it is not that pleasant at home, it beats being by himself.

Quote:
He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.


Whatever is going on with him, it speaks loudly about his character. You have said you don't want him back like he is now.......you want the guy you know he could be. What if the guy you thought you knew was a phoney? Maybe he felt as if he was living a lie. Maybe he has a split personality. Who knows? The point is that he is not that guy now, and may never be again......at least, not in a R with you. That's why you have to drop the rope and stop torturing yourself.

Quote:
I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up, being gone all day at school and then spending 2.5 hours in the lawyers office. I am overwhelmed
.

Look, you know how drivers in a race will hit something in the road, and they pull over for a pit stop? The mechanics start working quickly to get that car back out there on the road. The good thing about it is the driver does not have to go back to the starting line. Neither do you, T. You are going to hit bumps in the road, but it does not knock you back to square one, you just need a pit stop, gear up, and get back on track.

Quote:
I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind.


Honestly, I don't think he will change his mind, as long as he can have some female waiting in the wing. I believe the only thing that would cause him to change his mind is what I said in the first paragraph.

Quote:
So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home? I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.


You just said you were having a bad day. You are exhausted from no sleep, you've made a step toward the D, and you are spiraling. So why on earth would you choose the same day to talk to your H???

Quote:
It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.


You may be hurt by what I've had to say, also. Having adult children who have experienced what you are going through.....I can say that it kills your folks to see you clinging to a very slim chance that he will return. I'll give you a little warning, if he should return.......your folks may not be thrilled about it. They have seen him put you through hell, and if you were my D, I simply could not trust him not to do it again. As I told my own D, "I'm not in love with him........so please don't expect me to act as if he has not hurt my child". I was pleasant to him, but I did not welcome him back with open arms. He was a charmer, and a hard worker, but he just couldn't keep his pants zipped. After the third time he was caught, my D said, "Enough". She thought the heartbreak would kill her, but she survived and later met and married a wonderful man.

For your own sake, I hope you will let go. Maybe I shouldn't speak so plainly, IDK. I think it is hurting you more by clinging to some shred of hope he'll snap out of this and go home. I don't think he's ever going to return to that H you want in him. Let him go.
((((T)))).


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: T384
H sent me a text and said

We need to sit down and go over finances one night soon. I can't afford everything I am paying right now.

Do I bother responding to this??


Wow. OK from what I've read you're saying that if you file your L is convinced you will be getting more money from H than you are right now. And H has just put you on notice that he wants to sit down and tell you he is intending to pay you LESS. Let me just join the chorus here, you really only have one course of action and it is to FILE! Filing for D is not going to make your sitch worse. It may very well make it better. It could be the wakeup call for H that you are DONE putting up with his crap and it could slap him back to reality. No more cake-eating, no more playing part-time dad when it suits him, no more campouts at your place when the mood strikes.

Look T, the reality is he is only paying you now because he thinks he has to. If he could weasel out of it he would. HE IS NOT DOING IT OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF HIS HEART. He suspects that if he doesn't pay then you'll rain hellfire on him and things will be 10x worse. He's been paying, but he's already trying to finagle some of that money back and for what? Motorcycle parts, more steroids, travel, gifts for OW, etc. Nothing that benefits you or the kids I can promise you that. You need to get this process rolling before he decides to cut you off completely.


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WHAT ON EARTH ABOUT THIS MAN DO YOU WANT TO KEEP???

If he did a 180 right now and said, "Baby, I was wrong, everything we have is wonderful" would you REALLY TRUST HIM?

Do you want your sons to grow up to treat women the way he treats you, because you are showing them that behaving this way to a loved one is OK, she'll take him back. Is that what you want for them, or do you want them to be adults who make adult choices and who can look themselves (and you!) in the eye and feel self-respect?

You are paying a good lawyer good money to be your advocate. DO NOT SQUANDER THAT. Do as she says. NOTHING YOUR H SAYS IS RELEVANT. This would be true even if he hadn't dissipated marital assets on foolishness.

Why do you worry about pushing HIM away? Because he told you you were? You sound like the survivor of Stockholm Syndrome. He blameshifted onto you and you're taking it. Why would you do that???

You're not going to snap out of it, so please just stop listening to your heart and start listening to your head.

I'm sorry to be so frank but just when I think you're making progress you go straight back into wishing for him back. Be angry, be hurt, grieve, and all that, but for pete's sakes do what your lawyer tells you and STOP ENGAGING WITH HIS NONSENSE.


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I know it's hard, T, and it isn't what your heart yearns for right now BUT if you keep doing the same, you'll get the same results...and I know that this result right now is not what you want for you, your kids or your life.

Trust your L. Be brave. Take control of this s**t. Trust the wise women here. We know you can do this and we will have your virtual back xxx


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I get it

I know I suck, I am stupid for wanting this man, I KNOW!

Trust me, if I could take a magic pill to not feel this way about him I would. I am fighting reality that I am so DISPOSABLE to someone. That our boys are DISPOSABLE.

That he can hurt the people who love him most.

How he can be with someone else and not think about me and not give two you know what's about me.

And then to hear from every single person in my life he is never coming back. That this is the sandwich I am forced to eat like it or not.

I am going to file. I know I have to, I told the L I wanted to finish my school tomorrow, spend the last couple days of this week with the kids and would call her Monday at the latest to proceed. I've already paid to file.

When the heII does it get better? When do I stop being so hurt and so emotionally involved? I removed our family pictures today from the picture frames and replaced them with ones of the boys because it hurts so much to look at that stuff.

It hurts to just be so disposable. To feel so damn rejected as a person that is here that loves him so much and is caring for our boys while hes out parading around living this grandiose life.

Moral of the story I am going to file. I know that's what I have to do. I won't let my heart get in the way of potentially hurting my boys.


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Listen T. You are getting valuable support here.

I'm not like the man your H is, I would never cheat my future wife or any gf I will be with (or been with). So I can't say what on earth goes in his mind. But I'm still a man and I can say that a woman who would just move on with their life and act on it would be much more attractive than a woman who just clinged and waited. He knows you are there for him if nothing else works. Like you said for me, people want what they can't have. Trust that. Protect yourself. Go with the D. You'll get the money. If H never snaps out of this, you will find a better man - if he does, then you can make him work hard for months before accepting him back - I'm sorry, WHY do you even want him back in the first place???

I guarantee it for you. From your texts, I can see that you are a loving, a caring and a wonderful woman any man would like to have in their life as their wife. Your H is a (sorry) plain moron for not seeing this. You deserve better. You will get better if you desire so!


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I got noting to add other then, you got this T0!


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Hang in there, T.

I know it's so confusing right now. You want this marriage to work but not with H as he is now.

I can tell you that it does get better with time. But you will still have bad days so expect them.

For me, establishing a routine without W around really helped. It just takes time and there are no shortcuts.

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Thanks all...

Logging patients all day and getting the kids off to soccer.

I never responded to H's text. If he approaches me about finances I will listen but probably won't add much because I'm afraid I'll have diarrhea of the mouth that maybe he should talk to one of the women he's confiding in to help him with finances.

Sandi- it stings to hear you say he will never come back. I think I look to this board for hope to tell me he might change and come back one day. My dad already told me he wouldn't be able to be so close in my life anymore if H came back because he couldn't watch him do it to me again.


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T,
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US ON HERE HAS BEEN "DISPOSED OF".

Some of us with no warning. Just like a light bulb.

And it hurts like He11!

I cannot add to the advice you've been given, except to say- just for this next few days, when emotion looms strong in your head and heart, shut it down!

You can deal with all that later, but for now, if you are as committed to those boys as you seem to be, you MUST legally protect them. And pining for your H is not getting that done.

Has it occured to you that H may have gotten wind of the fact that YOU have sought legal advice, and that he may be waiting and prepping to be served? When I read his last text whining about no money, and we need to talk, it struck me that he is laying some groundwork for a legal fight.

Sometimes he strikes me as a spoiled, little man/boy, but recently, either he is getting some advice about paving the way to a legal battle with you, or he is just acting dumb, but may be Wile. E. Coyote under that dumb facade.

You owe it to your boys to act on this, and quit making excuses for waiting. As long as both people are still alive, there's always hope for a new marriage to the same person. But now is NOT the time to be thinking about that.

If your boys were in a burning building, would you wait around to see if the fire put itself out on its own? Of course not!!!! So get busy rescuing them and yourself.

PLEASE, PLEASE listen to the people on here and DO NOT KEEP PUTTING THIS OFF thinking it will get easier. It won't, until you take action, and it may very well get worse if you keep procrastinating with "enjoying time with the boys, etc".

I know this came off as a 2x4, but I just am so afraid for you right now, and I don't think you are stopping the mourning for the H he used to be, to take this as seriously as you should.

You know we would not be spending this much time and energy on here trying to beat some sense into you, if we didn't all love and want to protect you.


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It gets better a little at a time without you noticing. But only if you don't pick the scab. Taking pictures of him off the wall and replacing them with ones that bring you joy are an important first step. The others will come to you as you move through the process. But it really does get better. Better than you would ever believe.

I don't know how you can see all the people here cheering you on, and the great colleagues at your work/school, and your supportive parents (even if sometimes they're hard to listen to) and all the friends you clearly have, and the wonderful extended family, and think that you or your boys are disposable. That you would take all that evidence of how wonderful and precious the four of you are and weigh that against your H's evidence and decide that HIS is the evidence that counts. That baffles me. That's where your head needs to start lecturing your heart: His evidence is not worth as much as the evidence of the 100+ people cheering you on, so give it the weight it deserves. If he was someone you could respect, then MAYBE it would be worth talking about whether you were as awful as he said, but really, what about him is worth looking up to? And why would you hang your self-worth on the opinion of someone you can't respect?

You don't suck. Not even a little bit. But please apply your enormous determination and willpower to making a great life for yourself, not to hanging on to this person who you wouldn't even be friends with if you met him today.

Keep moving, T, you have no idea how wonderful the view is on the other side. It's like living in Oz instead of Kansas.


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what they ^^^^said


PS

the comments about being "disposable" resonates b/c as Leah said, we ALL have felt or do feel that way at times.

I mean, none of us "wanted" to be here, even if we were the ones to file. Please understand that.

My h has not spoken or even texted our 3 kids in 7 months, including on their birthdays. Has not seen them in almost a year.

What did THEY do to deserve this? It's a 35 year marriage, T3...that is about your age, right?

So I get it. But we all just have to let go of how they feel about our r or us. They are not our mirrors.

My T said "do not look at yourself thru your h's eyes. It's like looking at yourself thru the eyes of a disordered, dishonest man. It's just NOT accurate."

T3, my h sleeps in a bed with OW now. In her home, with her child.

Writing that^^ $ucks. A lot. But it hurts less, in part b/c I just STOP going there.

And partly b/c I just have no control over that and it does help me to know "hey 25, when you cannot "do" anything about this, you have to let it go."

I'm getting better at that. A lot better.

You will too.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
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Thank you everyone for stopping by and offering advice and/or support. You guys know how to make a girl feel special smile

I just re read this thread twice to let everything sink in... hopefully.

I am waiting until next week to file, and I WILL do it, but I have to move a few things around before I can, if that makes sense without giving too much away. It's something the L recommended to me. Those of you who were here last time remember H hiding/taking pre-marital assets last time... I need a few days to take care of those things.

Anyway, I had a quiet night. I have some of the best friends anybody could imagine. The funny thing is they are all couples that are our mutual friends. Everyone is furious with H. I haven't given details just that he's 'done'. He is so concerned with his image and acts so fake and happy in front of the parents like at soccer games half of the people didn't believe me especially after just seeing us together last weekend.

H came in around 9pm, the boys were swimming at a friends. I did what Ownit said and I was sitting on the couch watching TV with the baby working on homework. H came and sat down and watched TV and I didn't get up and leave like I normally would. We talked about the soccer game we were watching and kept it quiet. He shuffled his papers around that had all the bills written out and I didn't bite. He offered to take the baby so I could study so I let him. He offered to pick the boys up but I declined I said I wanted to go see the parents. H went to say goodnight to the boys and said goodnight to me.

My eyes are so so heavy. Tomorrow is my last day at the endocrinology office!! I am off of school as of Friday until August 16th! I start back at work on Monday for the first time since April so no 'real' break but at least I won't have homework to do for a bit.

I'm taking the boys to Universal tomorrow with 2 of their friends after I get done in the office around 1. I am a glutton for punishment smile Good ole Florida heat and tourist mania. I am not crazy enough to bring the baby at least lol I have to draw the line somewhere.

I talked to my brother awhile on the phone and one of my good friends. I felt better after those conversations. Everyone says H is an idiot and lives the life of Riley. That he had it made and if he couldn't be happy here he will never be happy. I know it sounds dumb but it makes me feel better that others that are close to us can reaffirm that I'm not some monster that forced him to leave.

Anyway, really thank you everyone for your kind words and for taking time out of your lives to post to me.

Oh and Maybell - yes it was a resident from work smile we went out a couple times that's when H started coming back around. Actually, when we went to dinner where he asked to work on the M, I told him I was kind of seeing someone else lol... I continued talking to that man for the first few weeks of H trying to come back. It drove him nuts. He would always ask if I cut it off with him yet or if he knew that H wanted his family back, that he didn't have history with me like H does, etc etc.

Everyone in my life says H will have a heart attack when he sees me with someone else. Especially if it gets to the point where he sees someone with our boys. That is a long long way away.


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oh and 25 -- i can't believe your H, well I guess I can, but what a you know what.

You are so strong and still young and I'm sure men out there are much wiser then some of the young men my age lol

I don't really have any words for you, 35 years, there's nothing I can say to even make any sense of it. Other than I'm sorry and it's obviously his loss.


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The disposable feeling is awful. If it helps, after 19 years, my STBXH didn't think either me or our marriage was even worth telling me why he wanted a D. He just did the MLC Vanisher thing and refused to respond to any communication about anything for months and months. The cruelty and irrationality of it was/is horrendous. And the shock from a man who cherished me for years and years.

But, I kept reminding myself that reality - of me, of our life - was not best judged through the eyes of a person who could behave like this. It isn't about me, or even our pretty good marriage. It is about him. Right now your H is a rubbish human being - please don't let his opinion carry more weight than 'meh'. xx


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T, if it makes you feel better to know that everyone loses their cool and says and does stupid stuff in the moment, read my thread on my meeting with my H. It is sad and cringe-worthy, but oddly fascinating (for me anyway).

You are doing great. Just keep moving forward and stick to your guns.

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I always come to your thread hoping for your H to come to his senses and see what he gave up. I struggle thru the whole how can you throw our family away as well. I empathize with you. And hope you can find the inner peace you deserve and desire


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Planning on having the conversation with H. Fed up with him coming here when he's going to Another woman's house and planning vacation and concerts with another woman. Not sure how many different ones there are.

Just wondering if I should just send a text vs having the conversation in person.

This was what I was planning on saying. Any advice or critique welcome

H, you have made it clear you are not interested in our M anymore. I will not tolerate you going to Ow house, planning vacations, and disrespecting the boys and I. I want you out by Friday.


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Advise? Don't text, don't call, and don't talk about any of this! It won't serve you in any way and also you may end up feeling worse about yourself! This is the anxious and insecure T reacting out of emotion. You feel out of control and so you are trying to control him. Strong and confident T would not bother with this. Also, you are paying a L, so just take that advise for now--she told you not to have any talks about this right? That is why you paying her.

"H, you have made it clear you are not interested in our M anymore."
--It serves NO ONE to tell him this. It just shows you are feeling weak and insecure. We ignore and don't care what he says about you or the M. Wahh whhaa whhhhaaaaa.

"I will not tolerate you going to Ow house, planning vacations, and disrespecting the boys and I. I want you out by Friday."
--Yes, he is cheating, he is a dirtbag, and this would drive me insane too! But T, you telling him that you know about OWs changes nothing! He will not think "uh oh, T knows, I better stop cheating." If he is cheating, he will do it anyhow. Again, this only makes you look weak and insecure. It shows you are focusing on his every move and want to control him.

Strong and confident T, where are you??? We need you back. Just one day at a time. Strong and confident T cannot be bothered with texting, nagging, or trying to control H. You are not together right now, and so you are not in a place to tell him what he can and can't do. I am sorry, it stinks! I know because I was there 3 years ago. And guess what? I did tell him and say all of the above to my H. Often! What did he do? He ran further away and further to OW, who was telling him how wonderful he is! Bleh.

This is what you can do: see the L (which you have) and then follow the advise. The advise is NOT TO TALK TO HIM. Your actions will speak louder than words. You know this. In the mean time, you can start thinking about an arrangement that ultimately would be best for you and the boys. This guy is a selfish POS, please stop pursuing him!

Hang in there. One day at a time. Breathe.

Blu


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She told me to tell him he has til Friday to get out when I met with her.


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do not say this and do not send a text

IF/WHEN there is a heads up about the filing, you don't mention HIS feelings. (Who cares what he wants or does?)

It's about what YOU want/need now and "from this day forward."


You want him out by Friday? Check in with your L about timing and you tell him you want him out by Friday. T3, what is there to say?

Don't even go there. It'll sound like the same old same old "nagging/always on my back/soooo distrustful, blah blah look what T3 did to ME!"

BTW

your h will move out soon after you file, anyhow.


And no one who matters will believe his narrative about how you "Forced" him to move out.

Reality - a woman with a newborn and 2 other sons under 6, does not do this lightly.

The real world knows that, and no one else matters.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
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*2016*
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Originally Posted By: T384
She told me to tell him he has til Friday to get out when I met with her.



I would check in with her first, anyhow. And I'd give him LESS NOTICE...

And I'd say NOT a word about what you think he "wants or has made clear,".

TO me, That's^^^ you saying "h, please disagree and change change your mind....(and...and h, do you still care??"

Just comes across as needy, imo.

There are many reasons for you to file and for him to find his own place.

NO NEED to say them again. There is nothing to say anymore.

He's heard it all before, and it will dilute the impact of your action.

Also do NOT tell him you are filing. Seriously, do NOT TELL HIM you are filing.

Just wait till the last possible moment and tell him what YOU need/want

which is for him to leave by Friday.

Then get ready to pack his stuff, box it and put it out in the garage or lawn or wherever it makes sense. Ask your dad for help if you need it.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Okay ya I wasn't planning on telling him about filing

I was using part of that script from what Cadence wrote and Train said it sounded okay too. That's why I came up with you aren't interested in our m or whatever along those lines.

So I should just tell him I want him to move out, wait to tell him that until right before he files and then that's it.

Don't mention OW, the concerts, nothing??

It is so hard to not tell him I know.

I also plan on shutting his cell phone off when he's served. I have to check with the L about that first but I pay the bill and I bought the iPhone he has. I am not going to pay for. Aphone he's using to have an affair.


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Originally Posted By: T384
Okay ya I wasn't planning on telling him about filing
-

Don't mention OW, the concerts, nothing??

It is so hard to not tell him I know.


um, T3, you know what ^^^ this is, don't you? This is you showing him!! You are "not stupid!"

Why the need? It will not achieve your goal...play your cards closer to the vest and ACT rather than speak...


I also plan on shutting his cell phone off when he's served. I have to check with the L about that first but I pay the bill and I bought the iPhone he has. I am not going to pay for. Aphone he's using to have an affair.



T3, if you wanted to save money that's one thing. But to me, this^^ is you stomping your feet.

Either cancel the phone or don't. But do not link it to who he calls. Way too much energy showing him and manipulating as if he won't just fix that and b1tch about you some more. He will NOT slap his forehead in shame & revelation.

Remember we don't care who he is with or calling. Or at least we can act like it till it becomes real.

And oh, btw, my h gave me AND himself nice new iPhone 6's for Christmas of 2015 .

Unbeknownst to me (till about 4 months ago) I've been paying for those "gifts" on my credit card the whole time. Incredible...

Yeah, I got a good "LAUGH" about that.


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M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Quote:
I was using part of that script from what Cadence wrote and Train said it sounded okay too. That's why I came up with you aren't interested in our m or whatever along those lines.


Things are rapidly changing T. I'm in agreement there is zero point in sending him that text at this point. And I'd never be in agreement with the laundry list, anyway. That's not the text of a strong woman who knows her value.

If you want him out, tell him you want him out. That's it. None of the other stuff. One statement, without any explanation even necessary. Don't get dragged into a back and forth. If he asks, a calm "Because you left and you're treating the house like a hotel. It's time for you to get your own place." is all you need. But, come on, like he'd really be confused.

If he starts panicking and says "what about ____? I can't just find a place quickly.", you say, "I'm sorry you're worried about it, but that's not my problem, H."

If he wants to talk custody, you could say "I think the priority is you finding a place with suitable bedrooms for the boys so you can have overnights, right? That's Step 1." That buys you time, avoids the conversation, and gets the topic back to what you want - him getting out.

Quote:
Don't mention OW, the concerts, nothing??


Quote:
It is so hard to not tell him I know.


What does it matter at this point? And how many times have you already told him that you "know" and that you're "not stupid"? I'm recalling that you've said these things multiple times already.

I think you're confused about the stage you're at, T. What he does doesn't matter because you aren't together anymore. He isn't trying to R with you. You're filing for D. It doesn't matter.

His cheating, lying, going to concerts and telling you he doesn't have money are relevant for you crying on the shoulders of your friends and family and talking about how much he hurt you. The connection between the two of you were accusations are relevant isn't there anymore. It will just make you look foolish and as if you're pining after him and aren't aware that he accusations no longer belong.

In order to saying and doing things you'll later regret, it's best not to look at only the words, but he larger message you'd be sending. And sending the laundry list text says "I'm still attached, H. You can still hurt me. I spend a lot of time thinking about you and what you're doing." Is that the underlying message you want to send him?

Instead of thinking about all he's done wrong, redirect your thoughts to you and your life and what you need to achieve peace in this new chapter. Refuse to ruminate on him. Refuse to get pulled into arguments. You're above that now.

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T, read ChumpLady today, it may help.


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T3

Save yourself the energy and stay silent about the OW/concerts & what you know, how you are "not stupid", etc. Your message will be diluted by repeating what you have already told him several times.

Truly. I cannot emphasize this^^^ enough.

If words about what you know - or questions about HOW he can do this sh1tty wrong thing after another baby/house, mattered enough to him to stop, he'd have stopped.


Saying you are "not stupid" again, will not make you look smarter or stronger.

T3 I know how much this hurts. I know why you resist what we are saying, even in the face of the evidence, and his own words. I know why you question so much.


I get it.


It may be time for ..whatever it takes for you to look forward & not feel "stupid." (plus she's funny as he11)

But T3, Please don't get stuck or steeped in your regrets.

If you want to "look back to learn from", -- do it LATER

& for now - just get in the "lifeboat for survival mode".

Do right by your sons and by you.

We are all rooting for you.

Last edited by Cristy; 08/01/17 08:39 AM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
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Yes, what 25 said, but also specifically read today's post in ... It's important for you to see it.

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PS

if you are going to cancel the phone, do it solely for financial reasons.

And do not tell him, or tell him it has anything to do with OW's. Just makes you look punitive

- and he will say you're "paranoid/always suspicious/never trusting/forced me" and you'll get sucked back into gas lighting blame shifting land.


^^^That's not your landing spot anymore.

And besides, you don't need to fuel that ^^^ narrative anymore.

So, for a few minutes a day/evening, can you do yourself a favor?

Imagine a life without your h, with you being happy....

add some details. Are you working full time? What's work look like? Do you travel with the boys much? Where to? Lots of soccer, I'm betting. Do you Ever take a girl's trip?

What about a hobby you'd like to get back into? Instrument to play or class to take? There will be times you don't have the boys, so you will have some T3 time.

T3, there are things to look forward to if you'd let some light in, just for a bit. Don't get all "doomed catastrophe" on us.

These ^^^ are just some ideas, but you will have some of your own if you let yourself go there for 5 minutes.
Please let yourself see some positives in your future because they exist.

And imo, your times with the boys will be less stressful, actually. Not always of course, but more than it would be if your h was around in your face.

And yes T3, you WILL meet another man. Yes I am sure. And yes, A good man.

You know I am one of 9 kids. 3 of my brothers married a 2nd time, and each was over 35 at the time.

Each said they knew that if they remarried, they'd probably marry a single mom and they were fine with that. One brother married a woman with 3 daughters, and HE had 3 daughters entering the m, and then they had --- yes, a daughter. So he's got 7 girls. They're happy, and it's been 12 years. So Yes it happens.

having 3 sons Is not leprosy.

This is a rough time, I know. I wish you could see that what my son told ME is true for you as well. Here is what he said and what I have typed on my phone to remind me.

"you are bound for so much more happiness now, I can't wait for you to see that."


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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T, you haven't posted, which makes me worry for you. If you're struggling, re-read 25's post. You are going to be happy, no matter what. You've got to recover from this, work on yourself to be ready to live an amazing and fulfilling life, but you'll do it.

You are in one of the most stressful parts. I know it hurts and it feels like you didn't have a choice because he hasn't given you one. And that's absolutely true. Sometimes we can't get what we want and we have to make the best of the options that we have, and that is what I see you doing by filing.

You deserve better than this, T, and you know it. That's one reason you're taking the step you're taking, but also to protect your boys.

If I know you, you also feel guilty because H is going to potentially struggle. But spending time thinking of that would be codependent, T. He wanted out, he was given every chance in the world to choose a different path, and these were the repercussions anyone could see coming from a mile away.

It isn't your fault.

Stand strong, and show him - via your actions and choices - that you are a strong woman. He'll start to understand that there's a new sheriff in town, and she's not worried about what he thinks of her, nor does she bother to rehash the topics a married couple might argue about, because she's accepted that things are radically different now. She's not even angry at him; she just has zero interest in engaging with him. She's taken the lemons he's handed her and she's going to make lemonade.

And ^that is what he fears the most. The T that would argue with him, and tell him what she knows and that she's not stupid, he knows how to handle her. He's got no clue how to manipulate the T that has risen above all of this, and that is the T we want you to strive for.

Hold your head up high, and know in your heart of hearts that this is probably not going to turn out well for him, since he's looking for a source of happiness outside of himself. But, oh well. He's an adult, and if he expected he could leave and still manipulate you to make it all easier on him, he's got another thing coming.

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How are you, T?


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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hmm, I do get a tad nervous when you post nothing.

Just quickly make a face cry

or
cool

to Let us know you're alright.

And hang in there


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Agree with all of the above. Let us hear from you. Don't make me drive to Florida tonight.


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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cry


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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T, I'm hoping it is because you and the kids are laying on the beach enjoying a lovely few days.

It it is something else, remember everyone here cares about you. We are here for you.

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Sorry, wasn't ignoring you all. Thank you for your concern.

Really just needed to take a break from here, and well everything really.

I am not feeling I am a good DB'er and really feel very frustrated and hurt with my life and what it's become. I want to scream at the top of my lungs about what he's doing and that it's not fair (yes I know life isn't fair) but I am a good person and took my vows seriously for better or WORSE. I've supported him through good and bad and this is how I am repayed... he treats strangers with more respect than he treats me. I get it, everyone here gets treated like this. I am just angry, hurt, sad, frustrated, etc. My boys don't deserve to be put through this a second time and our new baby doesn't deserve this either. I just wish he could be a different person. I see him texting 200-300 messages a day with these women that haven't given him 3 children, haven't slept next to him for 13 years, haven't seen him through the good, bad, ugly etc. He hasn't seen some of these women for 14 years, the other women he hasn't know for more than a few months yet I'm so easily replaced. EFF HIM!

Anyway, so yeah there's my poor me. I'm still here.

Thank you all for worrying about me. I hope that I will get past this one day and accept that this is my life. I don't want to be here.


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Thank you for checking in.

Your feelings are 100% valid, T. Feeling them is part of the process of eventually feeling better. Don't fight them, but also don't act upon them.

Also, fully accept the idea that H is no longer an appropriate person to be venting your most private thoughts and feelings, too. Let your family and friends (and DBers) pick up the slack.

Your new mantra is "I can feel however I feel, but I can choose my actions."

I'm sorry that you have to go through all this. Just try to trust us that you still have a happy life full of love ahead of you. H is not the end all be all, and he doesn't determine your worth.

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T, read through Blu's thread again and don't you dare beat yourself up. This is not because you are bad at DB or anything you did over the last couple of months. I want to hear you say aloud ten times right now "I did not cause this. This is not my fault." She said she was a terrible DBer and doesn't think that is why he came back.

In the end, I think whether they come back has more to do with them internally and the random chance of how and when things happen for them.

To get your mind off all of this and to remind yourself that very little in life is a result of careful planning and execution, read the Malcolm Gladwell book The Tipping Point.

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T,
When I woke up this morning, the first thing I did was check to see if you had checked in. I'm so glad you did. It's amazing how much we grow to care for each other in this forum.

When I read your post, I just cried. It's pouring down rain outside, and I just had a little sad party for all of us who feel like you do. Believe me when I tell you, you are not alone in feeling like you've been dealt a crappy hand.

Here's the thing though. We can either choose to keep crying, or we can have a good, cleansing one, then put on our high heels and get back in the arena, building a better life for ourselves, even if we don't feel like it. I feel sad today too. And that's OK. For a rainy day like today. But at some point I have to choose not to let that sad become my normal. We CAN'T allow our Hs to take up this much space in who we are. We are so much more than that. We've been kicked in the teeth, but we are still OK. We are going to be fine, even better than fine. So let's take some deep breaths, and dig deep, and find some gratitude. I'm going to start with being thankful for the community of friends and support we have built on this forum, and the people that care enough to hound us until we check back in.

BIG HUGS to you today. We got this.


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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Originally Posted By: T384
I want to scream at the top of my lungs about what he's doing and that it's not fair (yes I know life isn't fair) but I am a good person and took my vows seriously for better or WORSE. I've supported him through good and bad and this is how I am repayed...


Hi T384, Know that you are not alone. My feelings are similar. I stuck with my W through a number of challenges and she left. I, too, took our commitment to each other seriously. Though not religious, the commitment we made was to each other and support each other in good times and bad. I agree with you, it's very frustrating and hurtful. I don't really look at it as being repayed, I loved unconditionally and W didn't, perhaps didn't at all. I thought we had it, but if not, then I need to find someone else anyway. I feel for you with children and how hard that must be. Know you are not alone though.


Me: 47 W: 44
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yeah

it's rainy here today and this morning the ONLY reason I got out of bed was for coffee.

The ONLY reason I went outside in this dreary day is b/c I have a dog who insists...

had a gross dream about OW (and in my dream I was sort of warning her and also blaming her).

Ugh...

I make forward steps and then SLIDE BACK...and time marches on. I don't want to wake up at age 60 and still wonder what happened to my life.

No more "waiting" for h to finish training/come home from work/have free time/wake up/change/return.


So I'm making a short list of goals and adding structure to my life. That is what I need.

You, T3, have plenty of "to do" things on your list so in a way I envy your activity level & very much envy that you have your children around. You are overtly needed by most of the people in your life.

AND you may feel trapped or limited with 3 small ones, which I also understand.

Ultimately, you will arrive at a crossroads, and you'll have to choose to move forward or not to.

If you choose to move forward, some of your thought patterns will need changing, and that won't be immediate or consistent, but it will lead you to a better path.

You are not alone on this path.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Thanks everyone...

I must have submitted too early last night because I thought I had written a lot more.

I woke up yesterday morning just frustrated and decided to pack the car and head to the mountains with the boys.... first solo road trip ever and first time with 3 kids it was a long 10 hour drive and I shed a few tears when everyone was sleeping because I partly was like WTF was I thinking driving 10 hours alone and going through the mountains alone with no cell service. But we made it here around midnight and we survived and had many laughs so it was worth it.

I didn't ask H permission to take the kids. I called him said he boys will be gone until Wednesday that we were going to my grandmothers. He said ok. Bye and that was that. My dad hadn't heard from me and couldn't get in touch with me and was worried because it was like 1130 so he asked H for my grandmothers number. Do you think H ever reached out? Nope. That was a little wake up call that he doesn't care about me or the kids right now. He did have the time to text my grandma about us coming up.

He then sent me a text at 2 asking if we made it. I just replied yes. That was it. My grandma and my father said this should be the wake up call that I need that he's not that man. He's not my hero and he doesn't have a conscience nor care about us. It's true. But ouch.

Anyway we're going to make the most of our time here. This is the first time we've come here without H. This is something we do every summer so it's kind of sad to do all these things we normally do together alone.

I will say after driving and doing this alone I know I can do anything. My parents said H doesn't have to worry about the kids because he knows I can do anything. That he neeeds a woman that's inferior to him so he can feel like a big man and that I'm not that person. Unfortunately lately I have been submissive and meek. But I will get back to who I was.



My girlfriend text me yesterday and summed it up perfectly.

Shame on him, ultimately it is HIS loss and something he will have to live the rest of his life with. I feel sad for him that for the rest of his life he will never know happiness like he had. He will continue to search for external happiness and it's sad to know he will never be truly happy.

I struggle with my dad playing nice at the house with H. My dad said they were talking about our plans he excited the kids were etc. I am pretty frustrated because I asked my dad not to share this info with him. You know my dad had that long talk and told him how things would be but he's not standing by what he said. It's hard for me not to be upset about it. I feel like he's condoning H's actions. Like you're disrespecting my daughter but let's talk like normal and hang out like we would when her and the kids are gone. I am not sure how to let that go. I just want someone to stick up for me not with words but with actions. My H is still talking with my uncle. I mean why should he question anything when everything is the same except he doesn't have to talk to me or be my husband.


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it would bug me for awhile, about the uncle/dad going on as if nothing is happening


Maybe that will change when something changes officially, (i.e. you file)

b/c maybe your dad/uncle still harbor the hope that your h will see what he may lose by losing you...they remain close.

Why not just tell your dad to live by his own words, and your tell your uncle you feel he's choosing H by looking the other way even in the face of 3 little guys losing their dad and your m ending...

If they refuse then at least you know you were clear...(are you afraid of their response? Is not truly "knowing" where they stand, making you feel less valued?)


I felt I had to tell one of my brothers not to support h in his "adventure" on fb,

and my brother acted like I was crazy to even have to ask. But you never know. I'm glad I asked and really glad he acted as if it was a given. Sometimes it's not.

Oh when h posted on fb about OW "meeting the family" (meaning his dad/brother, Not our kids)

it was h's bff and wife who reached out to me first. They were horrified. (Several other mutual friends and family also did). Point is we never know how people really feel or how they see it and we cannot control that.

Not our sandbox.

Life will show your h the consequences of his choices, life will teach him lessons;
you don't have to worry about this^^^.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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T, you I'm so proud of you for getting up and taking that trip. I did the same thing when I was at your stage and I think it was one of the things that helped me move forward. I'm glad you took a little time off (though next time give us some warning!!) and that you're making a point of building happiness with your babies. Your H is absolutely an idiot for missing out on the only important things in life.

Have a great trip and be so proud of yourself for everything you're achieving. Feel what you feel when you feel it. Everything is going to be just fine.

((((((T384)))))


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Quote:
I struggle with my dad playing nice at the house with H. My dad said they were talking about our plans he excited the kids were etc. I am pretty frustrated because I asked my dad not to share this info with him. You know my dad had that long talk and told him how things would be but he's not standing by what he said. It's hard for me not to be upset about it. I feel like he's condoning H's actions. Like you're disrespecting my daughter but let's talk like normal and hang out like we would when her and the kids are gone. I am not sure how to let that go. I just want someone to stick up for me not with words but with actions. My H is still talking with my uncle. I mean why should he question anything when everything is the same except he doesn't have to talk to me or be my husband.


Just my thoughts, that they are in a holding frame until they see how things pan out with you and H. Didn't you say that dad lived in the house with you? If so, he is kinda of between a rock and a hard spot....since your H is showing up and spending time there. If he threatened ro thow H ou of the houset, or they got into an altercation.....,..you would be terribly upset. Once you actually have H stop coming to the house, and your dad sees you are going through the D.......then he will likely step up. IDK, about your uncle, but I'd guess he maybe has detached himself from the "situation" in your M troubles. You know how men comparmentalize.

Quote:
You know my dad had that long talk and told him how things would be but he's not standing by what he said. It's hard for me not to be upset about it.


I would have to look and read it again. However, I'm thinking he was telling your H that if the M ended....things would not continue on as if he (H) was still part of the family. The buddy trips would stop and H would not be invited to family events. So far, your dad still doesn't know that you will really D your H......and probably will have to see it finalized. Until then, he's going to play nice as his more comfortable choice in how to handle things between and SIL.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Just venting here

H hasn't called the kids or spoke with them since Thursday.

Last night he told
My dad he was going out for the VP at works birthday. Well it was the boss daughters birthday. He stayed the night at her house then had the nerve to come home to our house at 6am.

He needs to GTFO.

I had to shut my phone off last night because I knew I would say something. Instead I've said nothing. I've responded to his two texts in the last 2 days with just the word yes or no. Nothing more. He then has been texting my grandmother since he knows we're here. She has not responded.


Someone please talk me down from sending him a message to be out by the time I get back from vacation. He is a POS!!


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I'm not talking you down from it. I personally think you'd feel 1,000 times better if he WAS out. The question, I think, is whether he would actually leave ... and then, if he wouldn't, how any outburst on your part might make your living situation even MORE unbearable.

I mean, if he COULD leave, something tells me he'd have been gone a month ago. It's like he really is using the marital home like his own little personal hotel.

So I'm thinking out loud here, but what IF you placed some boundaries around his coming and going at home to protect the hearts of you and your boys? I know people may respond that you can't control H, and obviously I agree with that ... you can't force him out ... BUT ... you also MUST have boundaries. And, I'm here to tell ya, THIS was one of mine! (I guess I'm fortunate that my H gladly left when I told him to, because I hadn't come up with a Plan B, or the "if ... THEN ..." part of my boundary.)

So that would be what I would punt out there for discussion:

If you NEED to place a boundary around his coming and going at the house, what could it be? So, "H, if you continue treating this home like a hotel, then I will have no choice but to ______________." (Fill in the blank.)

That's how boundaries work. You can't force him to stay gone from the house. But if he continues disrespecting your marital home by coming and going as he pleases, what can YOU do to protect your heart and the hearts of your boys from his actions??

Maybe nothing. And in that case, there's no point setting that boundary.

Does that make sense??

It's worth chewing on.


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I guess I'm confused on if I say H if you continue to treat this as a hotel I will have to do XYZ.

But what is XYZ. I mean I can't make him leave I can't do anything legally to make him go. I am filling but that will take probably at least a week but more like two to get him served.

So if I said, H this is not a hotel. I want you to leave.

If he says no then I say something along the lines if you continue to come and go as if this is a hotel I will be forced to change the locks?


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Boundaries are fine

but if you say "IF you continue to blah blah blah, THEN..."

you just open it up for debate. You want him out. Period.


more later


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
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If you guys could just tell me what to say that's acceptable and not me trying to controlling him that would be helpful.

I've been giving nothing but one words responses to him and only responding to kidnrelated questions. He came home at 6am this morning and my dad said he was awake when he got there. He said he made sure to blare the F1 race on the stereo And said it's the little things I live for lol

Anyway H txt me

H: What are the boys doing
M:gem mining
H: weather been nice?
H: ?

I'm not responding. If it's not kid related I don't have to right? I'm leaning heavily on you guys because I'm angry and I don't want to knee jerk out of anger I want to say what's best because I've come so far without reacting to anything he's done. So I don't want to make that mistake now.

Train- don't you live in NC?? I'm staying a little west of Asheville


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One idea...

state outright

"H, this isn't working for me. I need you out by next week." (Period)

And if he brings up another casual "Shoot the breeze/hello" discussion, try

"H, we are splitting up. So let's keep focus on the boys. They'll be back Wednesday"...

I don't think ending your comments with questions or conditions is wise b/c it'll suck you in

and chances are good you will either escalate, to your regret

or cave - to your regret.

Whatever you do, stay on message and say 1/10 of what you feel like saying.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Originally Posted By: T384
If you guys could just tell me what to say that's acceptable and not me trying to controlling him that would be helpful.

I've been giving nothing but one words responses to him and only responding to kidnrelated questions. He came home at 6am this morning and my dad said he was awake when he got there. He said he made sure to blare the F1 race on the stereo And said it's the little things I live for lol

Anyway H txt me

H: What are the boys doing
M:gem mining
H: weather been nice?
H: ?

I'm not responding. If it's not kid related I don't have to right? I'm leaning heavily on you guys because I'm angry and I don't want to knee jerk out of anger I want to say what's best because I've come so far without reacting to anything he's done. So I don't want to make that mistake now.


No, not responding is absolutely appropriate. I don't know what he thinks he's achieving with the chit-chat texts when he can't be polite to you in person.

If you don't have a consequence in mind then I think you need to ask the lawyer what consequence you can put in place in order to get him out promptly. Don't attempt to set a boundary if you don't have the "then" in mind. And don't feel like you have to explain why you're not responding to his stupid texts. Nobody's that stupid. He just wants you to confirm that you are changing the script. Don't bother with that. JUST change the script, as you're doing. He'll get the message.

There came a point when I was tired of dealing with Mr. Fantastic's cr@p and I started ignoring everything that wasn't kid-related. He pulled the whole "why arent you talking to me?" self-pity text and I just replied, "I don't like being separated." He said, "OK, I'll go back to therapy." (by himself, but with the marriage counselor) Well, he went back, and he reported to me that "it didn't work." The therapist shouldn't have, but told me he'd been in for half a session, had basically nothing to say, and left after half an hour because "I don't have any problems." At that point I had confirmation that Mr. F wasn't going to do anything to work on the marriage and it got a lot easier for me to let him go. I mean, magic wands aren't going to heal a marriage and they aren't going to keep a marriage going either. I think I took my ring off at that point. (Yeah, it took me 6 months of separation to remove my ring. You're not the only slow learner on this board.)

I'm glad to see you finally practicing some detachment. The trip was clearly the best thing you could do for yourself in terms of beginning to gain some perspective and move forward with your own life.

I wish I had some advice for how to get him out of the house. In my case, Mr. F had been threatening to leave for about 4 months, but he never did, and we were actually sexually active together until about 2 weeks before he moved out. When he finally did move out, it was because we were in a marriage counseling session and I was telling the "therapist" how he was talking about leaving and how hard it was for me to function while he was behaving that way. The therapist asked what I wanted and I turned to Mr. F and said, "You need to go." then we spent the rest of the session talking about how he was going to execute the departure.

Is there any kind of third-party intervention that you can call to your aid to communicate with him that it is time to move forward with his plans? Could you, for example, call an extended family meeting that includes, perhaps, your dad (or someone else) who effectively gives him permission to do what he says he wants? Someone who can act as a witness for you, that you are calm and not passing judgment, just saying, OK, I'm fine with you leaving like you say you want to.

I know it galls to make a statement like that, but the mission is just to get him OUT. Sandi's tag line is "would you rather be right or be happy" and I think this might be an instance where that applies. Stop fighting him and just give him what he wants. Or at least make it look like you are, then fight like he!! for a favorable financial settlement.

Have a restful week. (((((T)))))


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As if he couldn't be more of a dlck turned on the car to realize he cancelled my Sirius subscription.


Really???! What an ass.


My dad said he's just seeking a reaction because I haven't given him one.


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Yes. Probably.

I like the idea of being straight forward:

"This isn't working for me anymore, H. You wanted out. Go."

The question is: what happens if/when he doesn't leave? Lol.


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Originally Posted By: T384
As if he couldn't be more of a dlck turned on the car to realize he cancelled my Sirius subscription.


Really???! What an ass.

My dad said he's just seeking a reaction because I haven't given him one.


Your dad is guessing, again. Who knows?

My h cancelled a life insurance policy we got when he deployed 5 years ago, which was coming out of MY credit card, thereby costing him nothing...

just to be a prick b/c he wasn't paying for it. And I have proof. His L claims h swore he was paying but honestly, who cares if he was? No notice, after 35 years, no chance for me (or our kids!!) to make arrangements to pay for it IF he had been, which he wasn't.

So he's lying, or is just so nutty and vindictive (yes it IS baffling)

so now when "we" get insurance on him, it'll be after 2 cardiac ablations and sleep apnea so it'll cost someone a lot more...if he is insurable.

My point is, WHO KNOWS??? there's not a "good reason"...

My guess - pure speculation is that the WAS is planning on their new life, and it's pricey! Best to hoard now...and there seems to be a nutty fear that THEY will be screwed in court. Ironic.

Not sure why my h thinks that but for sure, in MY case, h hears what he fears, not what is real or what got said.

Hence the need to act as if you're almost sedated when you speak to him, can't show ANY anger or tension (until the settlement is over). If you do, you play right into their narrative.

Ugh...

so back to YOU...ready?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Originally Posted By: Train
Yes. Probably.

I like the idea of being straight forward:

"This isn't working for me anymore, H. You wanted out. Go."

The question is: what happens if/when he doesn't leave? Lol.


I'm just tossing out ideas, okay?

But you could still say the above and if the problem of his staying - arises,

it's worth asking your L what your options are. If she says 'no options, you are both on the deed,"

--I imagine once you file, some type of move is going to be needed, possibly required. Up here near DC, there used to be a required 10 day cooling off time (to sure if it's still the case but no need to know that now)...

And or just GAL and be gone - **but you need to know there's a timeline.

Anyone would. Call the L if he won't leave, but I suspect if he can get "permission" to say you kicked him out, he'll go.

And do not worry what he tells people. B/C A) you have No control over that

and B), everyone who matters, knows the truth.

Time reveals the truth anyhow.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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^^^ x2 what 25 said.

My vote is for you to say it just so you feel you're owning some of your power again.

But perhaps we avoid the "if THEN" boundary-setting convo:

"H, this isn't working for me anymore. This is our family home. Not a hotel. It would be best for the kids and me for you to do what you've said you wanted to do all along: pack your things and go."

Here's what is important, though, T:

Do not say/do this as a reaction. Do not wait for him to do something that pisses you off before you say this. Do it as an OFFENSIVE move. So you don't come across as petty and nagging and reactive.

If you say this ^^^ when you are calm and H hasn't done anything to make you mad, then it comes from a place of POWER.

You could say the very same words after he's pissed you off, and it would come across as defensive and powerLESS.

Does that make sense?


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Yes I got it. That's what Ill say and I won't say it til I get back. Don't want to give him a paper trail to fuel his narrative that he was trying to do right by the kids.

If I say it soon now it will be reactive of him coming home late.

And guess the crazy train is gaining speed... OW #1 just posted a picture of her and H together last night on FB. He's of course wearing a shirt I bought him for Christmas and the watch I bought him. Her nice chest tattoo is hanging out and her shirt says 'thick girls taste better'

Reallllll classy!

He text me shortly after it was posted

H how was the boys day how was gem mining
M we had a great day
H is your grandma spoiling them like always lol
H ?
H ok well just make sure they call me before they go to bed it would be nice to hear from them since I haven't since Thursday
M you can call them anytime

My friends are all blowing my phone up now after that picture because I hadn't really shared anything with anyone.


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Quote:
and her shirt says 'thick girls taste better'


To a lion that escapes the zoo hopefully...

I wish I could say that comment was beneath me but I am still typing and could turn back in theory but my hand seems to be moving towards the submit button.


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BAHAHAHAHA. Yasssssss, Zues!!!!

T, baby, I know that stings. Try to let it roll off your back. It's NOTHING. You hear me? NOTHING.

Chin up, Buttercup.

I can feel you shining from here.


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Originally Posted By: T384
As if he couldn't be more of a dlck turned on the car to realize he cancelled my Sirius subscription. .


On the plus side, they are now doing the 6month for 30.00ish.


Me: 43
M: 10y
S:15
ILYBINILWY 2/18/13
W moved out 2/18/13
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T, I feel your strength from here! You are strong, girl. She's trash and not worth the space in your head. Your new, exciting life is calling out to you to "come see, all the wonderful things I have in store for you...."

Love and hugs, and enjoy the mountains. My sister and I took a road trip from Alabama to New Jersey last year in the fall, and made it last about 5 days, all the way down the Blue Ridge Parkway. It was one of the most peaceful, beautiful drives I've had in a long time. Just breathe deeply. Enjoy your Grandma and your boys.
HUGS!


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
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"First the pain, then the rising."
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Thank you all

He ended up meeting up with a mutual friend at a local bar.

She asked him what was up. He told her he's done. That I've made everything a mess. I'm accusing him of cheating. That marriage counseling didn't work and he's just done. That there's no fixing this.

She told him he was a POS and that she doesn't believe for a second that there's nobody else. He said he wanted to talk to her husband and owe him an explanation. She told him he will punch you in the face if you tell him you're leaving your family. She said H seemed shocked.

He told her I'm beautiful and he loves me and I'm a great person and that it's just him. She asked why do you have to do this. He said it's just me. I don't know what's wrong wth me. I mean doing steroids I bought the motorcycle I don't know what is wrong with me.

He text her after he left the bar and said thanks for listening and understanding his decision that it's over and that he is going to try and be as fair to me as possible through the divorce.

I told her I wished she would not have talked to him but what's done is done. She told me he's done. It's over. I need to move on. That he's lying and so self absorbed and worried about himself. He told her we tried marriage counseling and there's no improvement.

She said H what are you doing can we fix this can I help. Can you not wal k out on your family. What can we do to make this right. He said I don't know. To be honest I'm done. I want to move on with my life.

She said she told him if that's his choice then don't expect to have a relationship with her and her husband and he replied really? And she said yes.

She said she told him I don't even know you. You're not the H I know. He said I don't know what's going on with me. I just know I don't want to be with her anymore.

It stings but I've heard it all before.

He then sends me a text after he met with her 'goodnight, hope the baby sleeps good for you tonight'

Go F yourself. Stop trying to have a paper trail. Don't try to be nice to me so that OUR friends won't hate you for what you're doing. Dlck


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I mean, yeah.

I'm glad you're starting to get a little angry, honestly.


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Yep, fire it up, T. Get effin mad. Sometimes, that's what it takes.


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Originally Posted By: T384
Yes I got it.

And guess the crazy train is gaining speed... OW #1 just posted a picture of her and H together last night on FB. He's of course wearing a shirt I bought him for Christmas and the watch I bought him. Her nice chest tattoo is hanging out and her shirt says 'thick girls taste better'

Reallllll classy!

THAT'S HILARIOUS! (painful to you, I know, but sooo deliciously tacky).

Yes, very tasteful. And such an upgrade from his nurse practitioner wife/mother of 3!

I hope he's terrified and praying you don't have online access...


He text me shortly after it was posted

H how was the boys day how was gem mining
M we had a great day
H is your grandma spoiling them like always lol
H ?
H ok well just make sure they call me before they go to bed it would be nice to hear from them since I haven't since Thursday
M you can call them anytime

OOPS, he's worried that you saw the pics so this^^^ is him checking out whether you have by dancing around it, pretending they don't exist and seeing if you bite his head off,

INSTEAD of saying "oops I had not idea and I'm sorry if that hurt".

He's not exactly brave...


My friends are all blowing my phone up now after that picture because I hadn't really shared anything with anyone.



well now you don't have to worry about explaining anything! NOW you can kick him out with no social confusion...all is understood. (Thanks, h!)

More convenient, really.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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okay at Divorcecare says to

"use your anger as a call to action, which is not likely to turn into bitterness".

I get why you're mad. (T3, I REALLY get why the fb posts upset you. My fool H posted on HIS page and knows our kids & I and dozens of mutual friends and colleagues would see it

(the kids had refused to meet OW in Mexico where inlaws had winter home) so H posted he's "introducing OW to family in Cabo San Lucas" where WE vacationed for 20+ of our 35 years and in summer we would go to the ranch, which I predict OW will visit with h. Kids felt he was punishing them by saying "the family" when none of us were there, but I think BEST CASE scenario is h is "all done" and so, why can't he post like that??

MY guess=

"Why is 25 hurt? It's Not her business!! BUT IF she is hurt, she must miss me which validates how great a catch I am and what a lousy catch she is, that she's not dating...'


But I've seen a few of those types of pics with h's colleagues and their new OWs, in which I did not know the w, but instantly disliked the h for posting a new gf.
I could see it was shallow and cruel to their ex wives. I wonder if those pics are for their male friends to give "attaboys!" to them...?? Because we women are NOT impressed by those things...most distasteful to me.

If I had known the wives, I'd have sent a supportive message. Point being, these guys are NOT perceived by most women very well. Married women find it threatening to know a man can leave his wife & mother of 3, including an infant....

they may not say it to his face, (most won't) but it's not going to go over well.

Many men and women get protective of new moms/pregnant women. Your friend talking to him - let's hope he will be fair to you. THAT is what I'd emphasize if your friends can. Mirror back that they hope/expect him to be "generous"

don't gag until you get the money...
Your h's campaign to polish his image is an epic fail.

However I prefer him telling your mutual friends: "I don't know what's wrong with me... But I don't want to be married"

^^^that is the best version you can expect him to give,


AND it says it all, without making you the villain.

Carry on T, you are getting thru the worst of the storm. It is going to pass.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Start a new thread


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TBH the picture of them didn't hurt AS bad as I thought it would have... I was more angry that he would be that disrespectful again. He told my friend she's just a coworker and it means nothing. My friend told him if you have a wife and 3 children the last thing you should be doing right now. He of course gave all the right answers and she told him you aren't going to con me.

I really don't want people involved because I don't want it getting any worse. I'm already frustrated about everything she said last night because I know he feels backed ina corner and like she said he's VERY concerned what others think about him. She said he is so self absorbed it's disgusting. So I really just don't want him knowing I care enough to discuss anything.

I haven't responded to any messages from him that aren't about the kids.

I can't remember if I also told you guys he told my friend I ran away with the kids to NC that I packed up and just left didn't tell him. It's a lie obviously I called him about it. He said I ran away from our problems and that me leaving to NC was the nail in the coffin for him. It sealed the deal that this can't be fixed.

It's just anything to blame me. If it wasn't me going to NC it would have been something else. That's why my biggest concern is to not fuel his narrative.

We're supposed to come back Wednesday but I may extend the trip through the weekend. Not sure. I am in NO hurry to get back to his BS.




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