Here again part 12

[cadence]

PS, FWIW, I don't think it's a great idea to imagine a new guy in your life quite yet. Give yourself some space to rest before that happens.

I was really settled, devoted, and invested in my life with H, only to have that taken away. Picturing a happy future with a (nameless, faceless) guy helps me to know that it's going to be okay no matter what and reminds me that the loss of H isn't the end of my story. I'm a one-guy woman and so this helps me put my future in context.

However, it's not me picturing any specific person and I know I'm not ready to date yet.

If it's not an exercise that helps T when she's feeling this loss, that's ok.

My heart is telling me things could have been okay if I would have just not said anything all those months. I know it doesn't matter but I am beating myself up over it.

T, it's okay to have these feelings. This is the part of you that very much wants to believe you have control over other people. It's linked to your spiraling, when you are soothsaying and picking apart his every move. You want to predict, and know, and thus feel in control.

We think H is W because he is listening to his feelings. He is molding reality to fit his current feelings. From the outside looking in, that doesn't make much sense, because reality doesn't change based on how someone is feeling. Feelings should be based on reality, right?

Your heart is telling you your feelings. Your feelings are natural, but should you allow them to be the only thing guiding your behavior and choices?

Secondly, do any of you think I should try and have a conversation with H to see if he is willing to agree on support and visitation and then offer to have it legally drawn up? Or do you all really think it's best just to have him served out of nowhere?

Go with what your L says.

If I get a vote, at this point, where this man is using your home as a hotel and telling you he can't pay a utility bill despite the motorcycles, concerts, and illegal steroids he can afford, I vote for the latter.

I am just I guess playing devils advocate if I should give him the opportunity to agree to paying/childcare before just having him served out of nowhere.

T, he fired you from being his wife. You are still compelled to view him through the lens of wife, where you protect him from adversity and hardship.

Does he do the same for you? Or is he willfully introducing adversity and hardship into your life?

Look at him as he is today, not as how you want him to be.

And when should I have the conversation about moving out, after I've filed but before he's served?

What did your L say? If you didn't ask, it might worth a phone call or email to find out what she recommends. But I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing that you wish he'd get his own place. That's wholly different from telling him to move out.

I feel like I am losing my mind not knowing what the heII to do and so afraid of doing the wrong thing.

You are overthinking and your mind is torturing you with the idea that you have some control over the outcome, and you don't. As long as you are acting with your best interest (and your sons' best interest) in mind, and you are acting from a place of integrity and courage, you're doing the best thing.

H created a situation where any person with secure self-esteem would begin prioritizing themselves. You are not doing anything crazy here. You're in school and you have three little ones. H has done this before, and the last time he did, he stopped contributing toward finances. You are using all the information that you have and you are taking a stand that you are your priority, and H has made his bed.

Deference to H doesn't make him come back. What makes him doubt his choice to leave is seeing a strong confident T who isn't afraid to lose him. This is the exact opposite of what your instincts are screaming at you to do, but, oftentimes, facing a loss isn't the time to listen to instincts. If we are insecure in any way, our instincts will lead us astray and work against our goals.

I'm just not ready for what's about to come, I recognize that.

I don't know if anyone ever is.

Listen, H left, and he put you in a situation you didn't want to be in. That was his choice. You couldn't have changed it. You couldn't have forced him to choose differently.

And now you're making the best of a situation you never wanted and you're prioritizing yourself and your security.

When you're spinning, go read other success stories all the way through. Look for when the LBS advocates for themselves, and look how it can still work out in the end.

Also, get out of your own head and go give some other people advice! You're good at it.

[cadence]

Oh, and:

And in the conversation if he tries to bite back about not being able to afford to move out... where do I go with that? Because I know that's going to come. I was thinking of H, this is a decision you wanted. It is not in my best interest or the boys to be here with you coming late at night and being disrespectful with your involvement with other women while remaining in our family home --- and end it there.

Why do you even have to talk to him? Why do you have to defend your choice to file?

You do not owe him an explanation. It seems crazy to me that you're prepping your detailed explanations to defend a very rational choice.

If he couldn't afford his own place, it looks like he didn't think this through very well. That's on him. It is not your problem.

T, he left because everything was your fault. You're right that filing for D means everything will be your fault. It's up to you if you spend any of you brainpower giving validity to his claims, such that you need to defend yourself to the man who left you when you had a newborn.

[T384]

H sent me a text and said

We need to sit down and go over finances one night soon. I can't afford everything I am paying right now.

Do I bother responding to this??

I see on the phone bill he has been talking to that WONDERFUL woman his mother got involved, the one with 4 kids, divorced, remarried, etc, that tells him her children are the happiest in their classes compared to the kids with intact families. I mean hundreds of messages a day and talking on the phone during the day at work and on the way home. She's 15 years his senior and hasn't spoke to him since last BD. I know I can't control him talking to her, but I wish she would get out of his ear.

Treasur- thanks for stopping by. I do like the L and she thinks H is an A$$ and that's why she said serve him. She understands that I am not ready for that though but told me I can NEVER take him back after this... I just said I think I know that but my brain and heart aren't aligned, YET.

Yes these are all H's choices... I don't know why I want to be nice. Thank you for those words. He doesn't deserve for me to be bending over for him. He hasn't bent his knee for me once in months even as I was carrying our unborn son. These are the things I need to remember when I feel sad for him.

So what's changed is that this person, the calculating, serve him behind his back person is not an attractive person. It will further fuel he is making the right choice. That he has to get away from me because I am so controlling. Ugh this stuff [censored].

I just want to be the person only a fool leaves. I'm not sure me having a sheriff show up to serve him unknowingly is that person. That's what he did to me last time. Do I want to stoop to his level?

[cadence]

So what's changed is that this person, the calculating, serve him behind his back person is not an attractive person. It will further fuel he is making the right choice. That he has to get away from me because I am so controlling.

Woman: stop drinking H's kool-aid. The voice that is telling you these things is the voice that he wants you to have. The insecure woman who will take and justify whatever he dishes out, and doubt herself in the process.

Also, how is it controlling if you simply seek to formalize his choice?

It kind of sounds like you see anything that goes against what H wants from you (to sit nicely in that space on the shelf he made for you while he goes out in search of fun and freedom) as trying to control him. How does that work?

We need to sit down and go over finances one night soon. I can't afford everything I am paying right now.

I'm not sure how you respond to his text. I'd send it to your L and ask what you should say.

However, I am bristling at the "we need to". He doesn't get to dictate what you "need to" do because he's not being an H to you any longer. And where does he get off telling you what you need to do when his less-than-brilliant planning has him tight on finances? Perhaps he should have thought it through a little bit better.

Funny how he found money for concert tickets, though, right?

I just want to be the person only a fool leaves. I'm not sure me having a sheriff show up to serve him unknowingly is that person. That's what he did to me last time. Do I want to stoop to his level?

T. Stop. Listen to yourself. Look at the words on the page that you just typed. Imagine someone else typing them and how you'd feel reading about their situation. Step out of your head.

Why is it okay for him to do it to you, and you don't radically change your outlook on his value as a person, but for some reason you can't do the same thing and have confidence in yourself?

The woman only a fool leaves has confidence in herself, and doesn't put the feelings of an H who walked out for the second time when she had a newborn before her own feelings.

[T384]

Right Cadence, he had the money for concert tickets, a flight up north, testosterone injections, new lift kit for his truck, etc.

So that's why I don't feel there's much to discuss.. so now he wants to talk ? Because it's convenient for him. Because it benefits him.

So do I need to respond or just say nothing?

Listen Cadence, I know you get frustrated with me (I'm saying this in a loving tone BTW :))

But I DO appreciate your words, I know it is frustrating but I don't see it the way you see it UNTIL you write it. The way I see what I'm seeing or feeling is how I see things UNTIL you guys point out otherwise.

My dad said I have been so emotionally beat down by H that I've lost myself. That the old T wouldn't dare put up with this crap. They said he is manipulating me to believe what he's saying and that he's doing a good job because he has me believing this is my fault.

[Treasur]

I'm with cadence here...but if it really feels not you-ish (if you know a bit of you is doing it out of spite, or you think you'll feel good about it for a day but regret it in a year), why not ask your L to suggest a middle-ground prompted by his text about finances?

You do need to be canny though because if you give him too much notice, there are plenty of stories here of spouse's emptying or freezing joint accounts. Talk to your L. Help her help you find a more T-ish way to do what you know you need to do for you and your little ones. x

[Treasur]

Ps And I think you should listen to your Dad. I miss mine but I know he'd be saying something similar if he were still alive.

[25yearsmlc]

Goodness, you all are W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L!

I had a rough night with the baby up every 1-2 hours. Believe it or not he's cutting a tooth... my boys never got teeth until 5-6 months old so it's odd seeing an almost 3 month old drooling so much and he's not coordinated enough to hold a teething ring or anything.

oh man, I never thought about that^^. Cute but sad.

I am going to go back to all of your posts and try to address each of you and your thoughts so if I miss someone it's not intentional.

But before I type that long post I'm going to put this out there because I was thinking A L O T last night, probably too much for my own good. Filing D for me feels like giving up. Like I am in agreement with his choices. I get it that I have no other option and this is what he wants. I hope that in time I will accept that I had no other choice. I REALLY am struggling with feeling like *I* could have done something different, that *I* pushed him away like he says, and that things would have been okay if I would have just left him alone. My heart is telling me things could have been okay if I would have just not said anything all those months. I know it doesn't matter but I am beating myself up over it.


even if ALL of ^^^these things are true, (which they are not) it would not change the fact that you are in a no win position now. Your h's choices got you here even you jumped on the "push him" wagon too soon.

The only safe healthy financial smart choice you have is to file. And it's not giving up. It's reality


Secondly, do any of you think I should try and have a conversation with H to see if he is willing to agree on support and visitation and then offer to have it legally drawn up? Or do you all really think it's best just to have him served out of nowhere?

T3, listen to your L. Please....why on earth would you want a h who is "done" and already seeing OWs to know you're about to file?? Your h has plans for another life and is already living it.


I just know serving him is going to create mass chaos. We have all my hospital bills coming in that he is trying to pay plus our taxes and other bills. I know he is very stressed about that and so far he's been paying everything. He bought the new dryer the other night and took care of that. I am NOT by any means sticking up for him because this is all his responsibility. I am just I guess playing devils advocate if I should give him

No I think you are stalling out. Mind reading, anticipating and fearing...



the opportunity to agree to paying/childcare before just having him served out of nowhere. Last time we talked he knew I didn't want D and I feel like it's being calculating... which he has been this entire time.


"Served out of nowhere" - really? And so you think asking him to pay some bills before serving him, will achieve a --- positive reaction from your H? T3, your L said he is already paying LESS now than he will be in a divorce and marital debt is marital debt that will be apportioned to you proportionally.




I went out to the living room this morning to find he had wrote down a list of all the bills he pays and conveniently left it out on the table for me. This is because last night I reminded him the electric was past due (I normally pay) and I said I had paid half and the other half was due.

so there's no real financial reason to talk to him about his paying more now....which he will do once the D is filed. I think you are confusing yourself.

Okay, so I guess I'm just looking for everyone's opinions on those things.

And when should I have the conversation about moving out, after I've filed but before he's served? I feel like I am losing my mind not knowing what the heII to do and so afraid of doing the wrong thing. I'm just not ready for what's about to come, I recognize that.

And in the conversation if he tries to bite back about not being able to afford to move out... where do I go with that? Because I know that's going to come.

First off, your L will assist you in this^^ and it's highly doubtful this future problem will last long.

Second, stop borrowing trouble. You can let future T3 deal with this^^^ b/c Today's T has a lot on her plate at the moment.


I was thinking of H, this is a decision you wanted. It is not in my best interest or the boys to be here with you coming late at night and being disrespectful with your involvement with other women while remaining in our family home --- and end it there.

Can someone just provide me the manual on how to do these things? lol

oh the MANUAL!!! Yeah, I can't find it.

I saw a LOT of rough drafts around here and many different editions but they are apparently not applicable now.

Maybe we should write a new one.

[cadence]

Listen Cadence, I know you get frustrated with me (I'm saying this in a loving tone BTW :))

Thank you for the loving tone. And, said right back to you in a loving tone: "I don't blame you for being emotional today and I'm not frustrated with you. At all!"

Don't take any outrage with the way you talk to yourself in your head as criticism of you. It's more that I'm outraged that you're putting yourself through this and I'm hoping to shake you out of it.

So do I need to respond or just say nothing?

I'd wait for others to chime in, and I'd ask your L, but I would lean toward saying nothing until you have a better idea of the direction you want to take. There's no emergency that you need to respond to. Just let it sit.

My dad said I have been so emotionally beat down by H that I've lost myself. That the old T wouldn't dare put up with this crap. They said he is manipulating me to believe what he's saying and that he's doing a good job because he has me believing this is my fault.

I agree.

T, he's done this before, and he came back saying he'd made a mistake. Now he leaves after you bought a home together and after you had a planned third child, and you think it's your fault?

Step outside of your head and look at it how outsiders see it. It's somewhat absurd, and he's not doing it because you're so monstrous to him. He's doing it because he thinks that happiness should come from an external source, and we all know that's not accurate, but that's up to him to discover.

You have to let him go and let him fall. Just like your sons, when they were learning to walk around and discover. You'd let them go, even though it was bittersweet that they were growing up. H has told you he needs to leave, and you've got to let him go. You are doing this because you love yourself, he's told you over and over what he wants, and you have the integrity to allow him what he wants.

Him feeling controlled is not the same thing as you controlling him.

You are a kind-hearted woman who cares very deeply for him, but you've got to make yourself cut off the supply of caring, and shift your empathy toward yourself. If H hadn't chosen this route, you'd still be caring for him and his feelings, but he fired you from the position where it makes sense for you to hurt on his behalf.

And, honestly, hurting for him and feeling guilt are natural for the place you're in. But you don't want to allow yourself to remain in that place, because that would be the behavior of a codependent person.

[sandi2]

And yes yes yes, I know he *IS* gone and I know filing is a piece of paper. But like my family has said me ignoring him and leaving him alone has allowed him to act even more crazy. He hasn't once gone to another woman's house until lately, and then coming and going with no communcation. Also no texting me asking about dinner or that he's on his way here. I mean it's worse and worse each week more and more distance.

What were you expecting? You are suppose to be dropping the rope........not watching him and measuring how far he has distanced himself. This is probably something you don't want to hear, but I'm going to say it anyway. I think your H is really done with this M. I think the only way he will return is if he was without anybody else and returned home for the security. If he doesn't do well living alone, or being alone in a relationship.......then if he is abandoned, he'll run back home like a little boy seeking the comfort and security of his family.

Is that who you want? If so, how long would it be until he had a new female interest? The information you were given about him being in a R when he first met you and started talking, etc.........said something to me. Has he ever lived alone anytime in his life? He begins a new romance before he leaves the old one. When he was dumped by the previous live-in, he really panicked and went running home to you......and would have promised ANYTHING under the sun, just to get back where he felt safe again. I think the reason he goes to your house is b/c he doesn't want to be alone on the nights he shows up. Although it is not that pleasant at home, it beats being by himself.

He's doing exactly what he did last time, vacations, concerts all with his new GF... I mean there apparently is many more than 1. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that this is what he wants.

Whatever is going on with him, it speaks loudly about his character. You have said you don't want him back like he is now.......you want the guy you know he could be. What if the guy you thought you knew was a phoney? Maybe he felt as if he was living a lie. Maybe he has a split personality. Who knows? The point is that he is not that guy now, and may never be again......at least, not in a R with you. That's why you have to drop the rope and stop torturing yourself.

I really don't know anymore. I feel so so lost. I feel back at square one and I know it's just an overwhelming day with lack of sleep from last night, feeling like I screwed last night up, being gone all day at school and then spending 2.5 hours in the lawyers office. I am overwhelmed

.

Look, you know how drivers in a race will hit something in the road, and they pull over for a pit stop? The mechanics start working quickly to get that car back out there on the road. The good thing about it is the driver does not have to go back to the starting line. Neither do you, T. You are going to hit bumps in the road, but it does not knock you back to square one, you just need a pit stop, gear up, and get back on track.

I just want to know there is hope he is going to change his mind.

Honestly, I don't think he will change his mind, as long as he can have some female waiting in the wing. I believe the only thing that would cause him to change his mind is what I said in the first paragraph.

So tonight should I have this conversation with him? Should I ask to meet somewhere outside of the home? I think tonight it may seem like I am having the conversation out of retaliation of him going to visit his family and not taking the kids. I can wait until tomorrow night depending what you guys think is best.

You just said you were having a bad day. You are exhausted from no sleep, you've made a step toward the D, and you are spiraling. So why on earth would you choose the same day to talk to your H???

It is so discouraging to hear and really hurts me that nobody in my life has hope that he will snap out of this.

You may be hurt by what I've had to say, also. Having adult children who have experienced what you are going through.....I can say that it kills your folks to see you clinging to a very slim chance that he will return. I'll give you a little warning, if he should return.......your folks may not be thrilled about it. They have seen him put you through hell, and if you were my D, I simply could not trust him not to do it again. As I told my own D, "I'm not in love with him........so please don't expect me to act as if he has not hurt my child". I was pleasant to him, but I did not welcome him back with open arms. He was a charmer, and a hard worker, but he just couldn't keep his pants zipped. After the third time he was caught, my D said, "Enough". She thought the heartbreak would kill her, but she survived and later met and married a wonderful man.

For your own sake, I hope you will let go. Maybe I shouldn't speak so plainly, IDK. I think it is hurting you more by clinging to some shred of hope he'll snap out of this and go home. I don't think he's ever going to return to that H you want in him. Let him go.
((((T)))).