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Cadet, here's my new thread. Can you link my initial thread here?

Thanks,

here is the link
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745995#Post2745995

Last edited by Cadet; 07/20/17 02:16 AM. Reason: Link

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Now that W has officially filed for D. Should I start the NC phase? One of her biggest complaints was that I was not there "emotionally" for her. If I continue to detach and not engage her in conversations, I'm afraid that this will be "more of the same". Is saying "good morning" and "how was your day?" a good 180 and NC combo tactic if she's complained that I "didn't care about her job"?

Thanks,


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Teppo,

You can certainly say good morning. I wouldn't bother with How is your day. Unfortunately you can't nice your way out of your situation.

Stick to what Accuray has been telling you, give her as much space as you possibly can. Start building an awesome life without her in it.

I started doing that about three months ago and I have become so detached that my W and I sleep in the same bed still and I have no desire to be intimate with her at all. I never would have believed that three months ago.

You made some mistakes in your marriage like we all did. The important part is what will you learn from this moving forward.

Stay strong my friend.

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Thanks LH19 for you input,

I'm constantly fighting my natural tendency to be nice and show my emotions on my sleeve.

I'm finding that staying consistently strong emotionally, is the hardest part of DBing.


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Right, if you directly respond to her complaints now for her benefit it will infuriate her, not draw her closer.

For one thing, she'll think you're just putting on a show for her and if she were to come back you'd just go back to how you were before.

Secondly if they were long running complaints, the fact that you would take action only now after all she's been through will be extremely frustrating to her. In her mind you "pushed her to this" and everything is your fault, so for you to easily about face in front of her is unwelcome.

But what about 180? The only way it really works is if you do it for yourself. The changes you make will impact how you deal with everyone, not just her, and if you make it part of who you are she will notice. "Peacocking" changes in front of her will have the opposite effect you want.

Your only play right now is distance and building the life you want for yourself. She should need to have to catch up with you versus take you back.

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Thanks Acc,

I always appreciate your advice. I'm not sure I mentioned this before, but after asking my W to leave our bedroom, she and her girlfriend came up with a code word that my W would text to her. Evidently the code word would tell her friend that I was being physically abusive and to notify her girlfriend to call the police. I've never physically abused my W and never had the inclination to do so. Why does she think I would do that? It's amazing what my W thinks I'm going to do. It's scary actually.


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Teppo,

I wouldn't even address it. Sounds childish. Why wouldn't she just text "he's being abusive"?

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Good point LH19. Who knows what's going through her mind these days.

Accuracy made an interesting observation a while back about my W feeling terrible and anguished. I didn't think she was having any of those feelings because she never displayed them in front of me, but I later heard from a friend that she broke down when talking about our M. Yesterday my W said that she hasn't slept well in months and is now on antidepressants. So, I guess her "tough" exterior is just a facade. Sort of like mine. I wish her well.


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Teppo the only time I've heard about the abuse discussion is if she's planning to go for full custody and claim you're physically abusive. She can call the police or better yet have her girlfriend do it and it becomes a "he said she said" -- that happened to a friend of mine who is as non-abusive as they come.

In your case it's probably just crazy making, although if I remember correctly didn't you say you had anger issues? Is it possible she fears your temper on some level?

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Acc,

Thanks for your response. With respect to my "anger issues" I'll admit I'll get frustrated if something doesn't "go my way", in which case I'll be irritable or yell something to myself (not to anyone). My "anger issues" are not characterized by me being verbally or physically abusive to anyone, throwing things, breaking furniture, or generally going "insane".

Since she broke the news to me over three months ago that she was going to seek a D, I've made substantial progress in curbing my anger. Seeing a therapist helps as well.


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Acc,

To your point about my W fearing my temper. I think that is accurate, but during this whole ordeal, I've been very civil and calm. So, she can't claim that I've been "angry" at her for wanting to D me. I'm very sad, but not angry. She's at the point where everything I say is taken way out of context and proportion.


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Question for you all. Since D is a significant life event, does it deserve a final parting words with the W when it's all said and done. Wouldn't it be appropriate to say something like: "Well, I'm sorry it didn't work out." "I hope you find the happiness you're looking for." "Let me know if you need anything". I'm just thinking ahead as I still haven't been served yet.


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Teppo,

Seriously? Your'e thinking way to ahead of yourself. You have 6-12 months to worry about it. Also, what you may want to say today will probably be different by the time it is over.

Whatever you do don't say something like "I'll always be here for you".

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OK, LH19,

It's sad that words and phrases that we once said to our Ws without hesitation are all of a sudden toxic or wrong.


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Teppo,

LH19 is right. Also, you should keep in mind that being served or going through the actual divorce proceedings are just the legal events. It's the emotional bond that's important, and like LH19 said, you'll feel differently at some other point in time.

I was divorced at the end of September, 2016, and I still harbor a lot of anger about what my XW did to the family, but at the same time, I don't want any harm to come to her. We had many good years together and I'm thankful for that.

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Originally Posted By: Teppo
OK, LH19,

It's sad that words and phrases that we once said to our Ws without hesitation are all of a sudden toxic or wrong.


If those words will give you closure then by all means fire away.

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Teppo.....my only advice would be to take your S into consideration knowing that you and your W are going to be heavily involved with each other for the next 20 yrs or so.

I have 2 daughters that are 8 and 6.......I do not want them to feel awkward around me or my W no matter what issues we have with each other. My parents got D'd when I was in kindergarten and they both did not speak well about the other person. It effected me as I got older in life because I always tried to keep the peace and avoided situations where they would be in the same room.


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Wouldn't it be appropriate to say something like: "Well, I'm sorry it didn't work out." "I hope you find the happiness you're looking for."


For closure of the M I said those exact words to my XW the last time she left "our" house. Then she started talking about us still being there for each other due to the kids bla bla bla, then I just turned around and walked back inside...


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Originally Posted By: Btrow
Originally Posted By: Teppo
Wouldn't it be appropriate to say something like: "Well, I'm sorry it didn't work out." "I hope you find the happiness you're looking for."


For closure of the M I said those exact words to my XW the last time she left "our" house. Then she started talking about us still being there for each other due to the kids bla bla bla, then I just turned around and walked back inside...


Btrow,

Are you saying that you turned around and walked back into your house as your XW was talking about being there for each other due to the kids?


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Teppo,

Yes. The kids were not the point of that coversation. I had actually rehearsed what I wanted to say. Was in tears when rehearsing (ohhh BTW it was on the 25. December, my first ever christmas without the kids since they were born, bad day to rehearse deep stuff). I wanted that talk to be the end of our marriage relationship. The end of me and her. Some sort of thanks for 20 goodish years. Had nothing to do with the kids. (And it was months before I found this website so had no idea what a WW was back then, I probably had hoped for some sort of reaction, idk...). When she ruined that moment for me, I just thought, what the heck, screw her...

Off course we still have kids together and always will. But I'm not there for her. I'm there for the kids.


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If things go in that direction. I plan on just walking away after signing those papers. No talk, no hug, no handshake. Just walking away and out the door. Why would I be there for someone who doesn't want me around? Saying that mess sounds like nothing more than a last ditch effort to win her over. And by that point, no longer my W, no longer my problem. Let OM be there for her.


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Wow, Tread!

I guess you're right. I would think that if we're all trying to DB and get our Ws back we wouldn't do that. I know that DBing is about improving ourselves, but if the goal of DBing is to ultimately show our Ws that they made a mistake letting us go, then wouldn't doing what you suggested harm that attempt? I'm not being a jerk (probably naive), but I'm curious. I suppose it all comes down to the W decided on her own that she made a mistake, seeing our "new" selves and then deciding if she wants to come back - is that it?


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Tempo,

I wouldn't call it being a jerk. But if your W needs something, she would typically contact you. She wouldn't contact a friends or even family. You the H would be that person. So if your no longer her H, then the choice would be. A boyfriend or friend. And I already know that my W has no friends who are going to be there for her like me. And OM ain't going to step away from his W to do anything.

The moment the WW officially divorces you. That fantasy of hers suddenly becomes a reality. And that new reality will be the thing that brings her back to you. Seeing you do things for a girlfriend and you just showing yourself being a better choice will make her realize that the reality with you is far better than the reality she created for herself.

Like I said, if W chooses OM. Then let him deal with her wants and needs. The grass always seems greener on the other side. W should be able to see that once reality settles with OM. Then the real question is whether you want W back in your life?


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Teppo,

I saw your post on Coverts thread and will respond here. You said you tried GAL and it didn't work. GAL is not a trick, it's for your own we'll being. There is no magic bullet to fix your situation.

Your only option is to move on and live an awesome life without her. As Accuray often says "things have to get worse before they get better". They may mean you get divorced. Divorce is just a legal document that says your not married anymore. Doesn't mean you will never get back together.

One of my best friends parents divorced when he was 12. They hated each other and would argue at his baseball games. Psychology messed him up. His dad remarried his mother never did. His dads second wife passed about five years ago. Three years ago his mom and dad got back together. True story. Like Cadet always says " it's not over to you say it's over.

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Originally Posted By: LH19
Teppo,

I saw your post on Coverts thread and will respond here. You said you tried GAL and it didn't work. GAL is not a trick, it's for your own we'll being. There is no magic bullet to fix your situation.

Your only option is to move on and live an awesome life without her. As Accuray often says "things have to get worse before they get better". They may mean you get divorced. Divorce is just a legal document that says your not married anymore. Doesn't mean you will never get back together.

One of my best friends parents divorced when he was 12. They hated each other and would argue at his baseball games. Psychology messed him up. His dad remarried his mother never did. His dads second wife passed about five years ago. Three years ago his mom and dad got back together. True story. Like Cadet always says " it's not over to you say it's over.


LH19,

Thanks for your response and words of encouragement.

It's odd, but since filing for D, my W has been slightly more talkative and nice to me. I guess the pressure is off her? Weird.


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Teppo,

Yes I am sure the pressure is off her for now. They key now is to focus on your son and become the man you want to be. What are your goals? Are you addressing your anger issues?

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LH19,

Yes. I'm seeing a therapist for dealing with the D and my moodiness/anger. I don't believe I have an "anger" problem. More like low self esteem and pessimism.

As for goals, I'm deciding between finishing my MBA or going to law school. Though, I need to wait for the dust to settle on the D.


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Though I understand that my W's EA partner is not the cause of our failed M, is it ever advisable to contact him and let him know how much he has messed up my family?


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I'm going through some anxiety about finding a nice place for me and my son. I'm so afraid that my W will find a place before me to show the court that I don't have my stuff in order and earn primary custody. Maybe I'm just freaking out for no reason. Just venting.


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Teppo,

OM doesn't give a damn about how he has hurt your family. Some of these guys even make it a goal to pursue married women. If anything it will give him and your W something to laugh about. And at the end of the day, OM owes you nothing unless he was your friend. You need to be directing your anger at your W for allowing things to happen with OM.


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Thanks, Tread,

It's very painful to learn how my W calls this man her "protector" and has expressed concern for his health - he's 14 years older than her! Additionally, she insists that everything is 100% my fault when talking to family/friends all the while not mentioning her EA. It's just so frustrating!


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Teppo,

My XW's OM is 18 years her senior. He is ugly, completely greyhaired, bad teeth and big ears. There is nothing wrong with age gap relationships (heck I've got a crush on a co-worker 18 years my junior) or the other stuff in my OM description, but you'll see in a lot of sitches that the OM isn't some sort of dream partner and that's the reason I think a lot of women get dragged in.

The OM appears to the WW to be nothing more than a friend, a safe one, since they on the surface aren't anyone the WW could fall for, and suddendly their friendship turns into an EA and the train starts rolling. But they do offer the vulnarable WW those few percentages that we apparently neglegted, but for the WW at the moment, those things are more important to her than the full package.

One day, I suppose, a lot of the WW's will wake up next to Quasimodo and think, what the fok just happened here. How they will act after that however, thats the question.

If a confident, strong, fit and good looking XH who didn't burn any bridges, appears available, then who knows...


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Btrow,

Wow! 18 years her senior! I just don't get it.

Your last sentence about not "burning any bridges" struck me. I'm about to get served papers and trying to decide which kind of lawyer I want to retain. There's a price difference of $1,400. One has a well-known reputation for being a real b!tch and cutthroat. What should I do if my W makes the D difficult and nasty? How does one avoid burning bridges in that scenario?


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Teppo,

Have you discussed Mediation with your wife? Can you agree on most things? 50/50 custody? Who gets the martial home? The rest is merely a calculation. It will be best for your son if you can keep it amicable.

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Originally Posted By: LH19
Teppo,

Have you discussed Mediation with your wife? Can you agree on most things? 50/50 custody? Who gets the martial home? The rest is merely a calculation. It will be best for your son if you can keep it amicable.


LH19,

No, I haven't discussed mediation with my W, or anything else for that matter. She's been distant and cold for weeks toward me. I want to keep things amicable.


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So, I did something crazy. I asked my W to go to a big band dance this Friday. I said this wasn't some sort of trick to win her back. I said we don't have to talk about the D and that we should just go and have fun since we've both been under a lot of stress. She said "I'll think about it". I think I caught her off guard by the invitation. I said if you don't want to go that's ok as well. Either way I'm going to continue my GAL.


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In DR it mentions that if you do something like this, don't make it a "date" with her, but just plan on going, tell her you're going, and tell her she's welcome to join if she wants. But you go NO MATTER WHAT. If you can do that consistently and be ambivalent about whether she goes or not, then it's not pressure.


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I agree with AnotherStander. Just be sure to go without her if she rejects the offer. And issue asks aboutvitvbeing a date just tell her that you two just need to hang out and relax.


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AnotherStander and Tread,

Yep. I made it clear to her that there's no expectations on my part and that I thought it would be fun considering the stress we've been under. I'm definitely going no matter what she decides. Thanks guys!

P.s. I'm sure my invitation was a psychological curveball to her. She's been predicting to her friends that I would not be handling the D well and that would be angry and moody - nope! I haven't expressed any of those emotions at all thanks to DB!


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
She's been predicting to her friends that I would not be handling the D well and that would be angry and moody - nope! I haven't expressed any of those emotions at all thanks to DB!


That's awesome!

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Teppo,

Glad to hear you're doing as well as can be expected. The very best thing you can do is see if you and W can sit down at the kitchen table and roughly agree on the components of your divorce. If you can't, then let the lawyers handle it.

The components are:

1) The custody agreement: What percentage of the time will each of you have the kids, what will the schedule be, how will you handle transitions, and how will you handle holidays and school breaks. You need to agree on all of that. I had a friend where their agreement specified that on the handover day, one parent dropped off at school, and the other parent picked up from school. Then, there was a snow day with no school, and they got into a big fight about who had to do the driving between the two houses. The more specific you can make the plan the better.

2) The financial agreement: Child support will be a state formula based on your income difference and your custody percentage. These are after tax dollars for the person paying child support. The second component is alimony -- in MA the entitlement is 80% of the length of the marriage up to 20 years, and after 20 years its for life. Alimony can be negotiated, waived/etc. You should agree on what you're going to do here. Alimony payments are pre-tax, so if you pay her, it's pretax dollars and she has to pay the tax on it, so that makes it preferable to giving her a lump sum up-front which would be post-tax. Finally, there's the division of your assets and debt. This is where people can get really hung up arguing over the value of things. i.e. you're going to keep the couch, she thinks it's worth $4,000 and you think it's worth $200. Try not to get sucked into that. If both of you can "give" a little more than you're comfortable with you both win.

In my case, W and I hashed this out between the two of us and just hired a lawyer to draft it into a format the court would accept and my total legal bill was about $2,500, hers was less.

Regarding confronting OM, that's up to you. Generally, she's going to resent you for doing it and it will push them closer together but you need to decide if you care.

My exW had a few EA's and one PA. The EA I caught her in, I did confront OM and he was very apologetic and promised to go "no contact" and lived up to his word. For me, it felt really good to confront him and gave me a bit of closure.

The next time around, three years later with the PA, I did not confront OM. OM's wife had already found out via a private investigator so I figured there was really nothing to be gained.

In some cases, OM is a "predator" like someone mentioned above. More often, it's just some shlub that got caught up in it. In many cases these things are the result of a thousand micro-escalations instead of a decision that someone has made. i.e. two people are unhappy in their marriages and start discussing it with each other. The validation feels good, after a few get togethers one of them says something only mildly flirtatious. The other person likes the attention and doesn't object, or says something mildly flirtatious back. The next time it's slightly more flirtatious, etc. etc. and before they know it they're way over the line.

At that point, they are not thinking about you, or their wife, or kids, or anything else -- they're just enjoying the attention. They are of course aware that they're doing something wrong, but they're ignoring it and putting on blinders.

If you confront it will tend to shake them out of their fantasy world, but their reaction to that is totally unpredictable, they may deny, they may apologize, they may flee, or they may fight. In any case, it makes things with W worse. For me, that was worth it the first time but its a personal decision.

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Originally Posted By: Accuray
This is where people can get really hung up arguing over the value of things. i.e. you're going to keep the couch, she thinks it's worth $4,000 and you think it's worth $200. Try not to get sucked into that. If both of you can "give" a little more than you're comfortable with you both win.


I completely agree. My XW tended to put a high value on things that didn't have any value at all to me. I let her make her list of things that she wanted, and I pretended to thoroughly scrutinize it, but to me, it was mostly junk I didn't want anyway. I was lucky.

One thing to consider; over the years my wife and I had given my sons various expensive electronics such as computers and gaming consoles. My XW tried to take those (for obvious reasons). I told her that she couldn't decide where those things go because they belong to the boys; the boys needed to decide where those things go. Most of that stuff remained with me.

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Thanks doodler and accuracy,

My W told me this evening that she's not paying child support. Yikes! I also learned that she's going to fight me for custody! When I asked her about custody she wouldn't say that it would be joint 50/50. She used phases such as "I want" and "I'm going to do". She's dictating the narrative. I'm getting nervous that I'm going to get screwed big time. I'm still waiting for the D papers.


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Seek legal advice. In some jurisdictions and situations you may be advantaged to put your proposal on the table first instead of waiting for her to do so.


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She doesn't get to choose if she pays child support or not -- it's a state formula. The only way she wouldn't pay child support would be if she had 100% custody assuming she's the higher earner.


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
My W told me this evening that she's not paying child support. Yikes! I also learned that she's going to fight me for custody!


Teppo, first who is it that keeps initiating these convos? If it's you then stop it. Wait until you get the D papers, and then review them. If you don't like the terms then discuss it with an L.

Second, like Acc said it is not up to her whether she pays child support or not, it's up to the court. She can PROPOSE not paying child support in her D papers, but all you have to do is reject her proposal. Then it has to be resolved through negotiation, remediation or the court. Has she even drawn up the papers yet? If not you might just tell her that you're not going to accept those terms and that if that's what she's proposing then she needs to prepare for court. Once she realizes you're not just going to roll over on this stuff then I suspect she'll back down from her demands because the alternative is a long, drawn out fight and a big delay in the actual D date.

DBing does not apply to D negotiations. In the D you need to do whatever it takes to protect your interests. D negotiations are NOT the place for listening and validating.


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AnotherStander,

I'm the one who initiated the conversation. It's been only this one time. I won't do it again.

She told me she filed over a week ago, but I haven't received the papers.


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I finally got good news on my job situation. I'm being recruited by a company that pays more than I've ever received, however, it may require me to relocate within the state.

This will certainly put a wrench in my W's custody plans. I haven't told her anything. I need to get the job first. Anyway, just journaling...


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
I'm being recruited by a company that pays more than I've ever received, however, it may require me to relocate within the state.


Teppo,

Good for you! And, if you ever find yourself in an altruistic mood, you can send some of that money to my favorite charity, The Doodler Fund.

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Thanks, Doddler!

Though I'm optimistic about my career prospects, I'm at a loss at what to do with my W. She didn't come with me to last night's dance, which I wholly expected, and I went anyway. I had a lot of fun by the way. I'm just not sure what I should be doing DB wise.

She said she filed over a week ago, but I haven't been served. To be honest, I'm starting to not care. I'm thinking more and more about my post-D life than trying to Is this a normal detaching feeling?


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Let me correct my last sentence: I'm thinking more about my post-D life instead of trying/hoping for reconciliation. Is this a normal feeling associated with detaching?


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It feels that way to me......I find myself caring less and less. The pain and emotions are less intense and I also feel myself feeling sorry for her and what she has walked away from.


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Originally Posted By: Joseph9
It feels that way to me......I find myself caring less and less. The pain and emotions are less intense and I also feel myself feeling sorry for her and what she has walked away from.


Yes! Exactly! I too am starting to feel sorry for her. Also, I think she's going to be shocked once my attorney gets involved. Right now my W thinks I can't afford a L and that I will accept all her demands.


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It's been nearly a week and a half since she said she filed, yet no papers.


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My W told me on memorial day she wanted a D.......still nothing yet......at this point in time I really don't give a crap.


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Jeez! Have you asked her what's her delay, or do you not want to push the topic?


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I was told to not push the topic by folks on this board and me DB coach unless I wanted one. Although she told me a week ago it was going to happen. Just following the motto of believe nothing they say and only 50% of what they do.


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Ain't that the truth.


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So at this point I don't call her, text her or do anything else unless it is related to the pick up/transfer of our children. When that happens it is short, exchange a few pleasantries and off I go. I just make sure that I look good when I see her and am upbeat. At this time she has shown no interest in having anything to do with me. The only comment she has made is that my new haircut makes me look younger. No comment on my weight loss, new clothes or anything. Everyone tells me it is going to take time and to hang in there. I do feel that I am about 85 to 90% detached at this time. So I know I have some more work to do.


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This morning I woke from a bad dream involving my W and the OM. I dreamt that they were taking a shower together and the OM poked his head from the curtain to look at me. God, I hope these don't become more frequent.


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Bad day today.

My son and I were walking in a park and ran into my W with her OM. I videoed the encounter. I simply asked the guy "Didn't I ask you to leave my wife alone." He responded by saying "Yes, but that was before..." he stopped talking. I panned my phone to my W, called her name and said "This is a disgrace". I quickly walked back to my car with my son. My son was a wreck and I had to console him like never before.

The W didn't even come to our S. She stayed with the OM!
When I came home she confronted me and said "Have you calmed down yet?". I said "I am calm", "I have nothing to say to you, you've been lying to me this whole time." I said "Talk to my lawyer". Then she said "What do you think you're going to do with those pictures". I said "It was actually a video". She then said, "Well, it's not going to help you". I just walked away.


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No, it may not matter in a court of law, but it matters to YOU.

Hope this helps you move toward detachment. That's about all we can do at this point.
HUGS!


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Bad day today.

My son and I were walking in a park and ran into my W with her OM. I videoed the encounter. I simply asked the guy "Didn't I ask you to leave my wife alone." He responded by saying "Yes, but that was before..." he stopped talking. I panned my phone to my W, called her name and said "This is a disgrace". I quickly walked back to my car with my son. My son was a wreck and I had to console him like never before.

The W didn't even come to our S. She stayed with the OM!
When I came home she confronted me and said "Have you calmed down yet?". I said "I am calm", "I have nothing to say to you, you've been lying to me this whole time." I said "Talk to my lawyer". Then she said "What do you think you're going to do with those pictures". I said "It was actually a video". She then said, "Well, it's not going to help you". I just walked away.




Your son is 7. Was he upset because he saw his mom with OM? Or because he witnessed his parents having a public (and to him probably confusing) confrontation?


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Originally Posted By: Teppo

My son and I were walking in a park and ran into my W with her OM. I videoed the encounter.


Well it sounded like you were doing pretty well with detachment, but maybe you just thought you were detaching. Because this behavior is not detached! Why the video? What was the point of that? The only reason I can come up with is you wanted to humiliate and embarrass her in front of S, which frankly she didn't need any help with because I'm sure she was doing that just fine on her own.

Quote:
My son was a wreck and I had to console him like never before.


I'm sure he would have been upset anyway, but I think your actions probably contributed to it quite a bit. My dad dragged me along to go and confront my mom and her OM after they had separated (I did not know where we were going or why at the time). I was older than your S, but it was still a very traumatic experience for me. I'm sure my dad was hoping it would embarrass my mom and maybe even make me hate her, but the whole experience just hurt me deeply, it was like my whole world was turned upside down. I was more upset about their attitude towards each other than anything else, when the people you think love you and love each other are suddenly showing hatred and anger instead, then as a kid you don't understand if it's because of you or directed at you or what. If you ever find yourself in a similar situation again then please, think of your son and just get him out of there as quickly as possible.

Quote:
"What do you think you're going to do with those pictures". I said "It was actually a video". She then said, "Well, it's not going to help you".


IF you're in a no-fault D state like mine (TX) then she is right.


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I acted out of emotions. Some guys would've done worse. I took the video because I'm tired of her telling me that I'm crazy for think she's having an A.


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Teppo -- no judging here. Ask yourself if you took your son for a walk in that location because you deep down hoped that you would run into her with OM. It's a big world with lots of places to walk, so this seems an odd coincidence.

If you DID do this to potentially create a confrontation, mission accomplished. Sometimes we feel a deep need to push things to a head, sometimes as much to prove to ourselves what's really going on versus any other reason.

Unfortunately, what you may have learned, is that it can be a lot like bullying -- it feels good in the moment but afterwards you feel much worse.

I agree with everyone else that your job should be to shield S as much as possible from what's going on, but I'm sure you also know that and the fact that he was there just happened to be unfortunate.

She is going to do what she wants to do, unfortunately, and no amount of guilt, shame, pressure or anything else is going to change that. You just need to focus on yourself and getting through this as best you can.

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Point noted.


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I know it's awful, we're here to support you


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I hope you are doing better today Teppo. Try to get back to working on your detachment, you were making good progress! This is a setback, but we all have them. Just use it to learn and regroup and get back on your gameplan.


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Thanks, guys. I appreciate the continued support.

I just hate how my wife can continue on the affair after her 7 year old son and I saw her with her OM! I feel like she's getting away with flaunting her A in our faces. I know there's nothing I can do about it.

To make matters worse, I consulted with another attorney today who said my chances of getting 50/50 split custody are 30-40%! She also said that it's ok for the OM to be around my kid when he is with my W after the divorce is settled! I was also told that if I get this new job and I have to move to another town in the state that I would only see my son on the weekends! I'm very discouraged and angry that all of this is going her way.


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Patience, patience.

I really feel for you, so sorry to hear about this tough time.

At these kinds of times it's really tempting to lash out. Believe me, I feel like it so often.

But don't.

You have to ask yourself, what is the most exquisite revenge?

Is it the short term satisfaction you will get from making your W feel bad for a little bit because you have evidence of her A? Because your S may blame her for the break-up of your family? Even if she experiences these feelings, they will be fleeting. She will go to OM for her affirmation that she's doing the right thing, that they are not bad people.

Or would it be this...

Your W wakes up one day and looks at OM and realises he's nothing special, that she destroyed her life with her family for a person as flawed as the one she thought she was leaving. When she sees you looking happy and well, toned and tanned, moving on, laughing with your son, getting looks from other women - what will go through her mind? This is the revenge that will exact itself on her every single day, every single minute, and she won't escape it like she can escape your accusatory voice, because the voice this time will be in her head.

Unfortunately it's a slow slow SLOW burn. And it's largely dependant on how much self control, dignity and GAL-ing you can do now.

She fell in love with you once. She's attached to someone at the moment so even if you were that original person she fell in love with was here, she wouldn't be able to see it. There's hormones in the way and a narrative she can't immediately dismantle without annhilating her own self image. But there are universal laws that nothing in this world can escape. Like the law of gravity. I'm refering to the law of decay. Everything that once was new and beautiful will become old. This applied to your relationship with W, my relationship with WH, and it will apply to her relationship with OM. The key is patience and choosing the right actions. Don't do anything to justify the picture in her head of the man she is leaving. The voice in her head will start whispering, but you have to act the right way and leave her alone long enough for it to gain strength.

It's the hardest thing in the world to do, but if you want that scenario badly enough, you will do it.


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2016sux,

I like your handle. Mine should be 2017sux. It's neat that we have DB friends on the other side of the pond, but I digress.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my situation. Your post (including those from other posters) provides me with the motivation and support to change and become a better person- for me and my son.

I particularly like it when you wrote: "When she sees you looking happy and well, toned and tanned, moving on, laughing with your son, getting looks from other women - what will go through her mind?" I've got the looking happy, "well, toned and tanned" and "laughing with my son" part down, so I'm moving in the right direction. I've actually lost 16 pounds since December!

Additionally, my GALing life is really taking off, and my job prospects.

I retained a lawyer yesterday and I think I selected an excellent one that will provide me with the best possible outcome from this whole mess. I'm at the point where things have the potential to really move my way for once and I just want to start my new life.

I hope things work out for you as well.


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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
I hope you are doing better today Teppo. Try to get back to working on your detachment, you were making good progress! This is a setback, but we all have them. Just use it to learn and regroup and get back on your gameplan.


I am, thanks AnotherStander,

I didn't view Sunday's events as a complete setback as I didn't expect to run into my W and the OM. Regardless, I'll be sure just to turn aroand avoid a confrontation should it happen again.


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...or walk by, smile and wave and let her see that you don't give a sh!t


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Originally Posted By: Accuray
...or walk by, smile and wave and let her see that you don't give a sh!t


Yes, I'll do that next time! Thanks, Acc.

I hope you're doing well.


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Well, my job prospect hit a snag today. I may have to relocate 2.5 hours away, which puts me in a conundrum about how my W and I will sort out custody.


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Well, my job prospect hit a snag today. I may have to relocate 2.5 hours away, which puts me in a conundrum about how my W and I will sort out custody.


I can't remember if you have an L, but this is definitely something to discuss with one if you do. The court will very likely look unfavorably on you moving away for a job and award your wife full custody with you maybe getting every other weekend. If your L confirms that you've got to ask yourself if the job is worth losing custody to you. Definitely a tough decision, sorry you're having to go through this!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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I know that you said this job is significantly better paying that what you have ever made, but you need to really consider what it means to take it.

I moved away from my step-son, and it was a tough decision, but I only decided to go because he was 17 and would be going away to college in a year and a half from when I moved.

I have seen him every two months since, but even with him being so old, it is really tough. I miss out on his sporting events, have never met his current girlfriend, don't get to help him work on his new car, don't get to just spend a day with him whenever I want, and I'm not there when he could use my company. It's tough for me, and he's my step son and 17... It may be really tough on you with him being so young. Of course, you will be a lot closer to him than I am, so if you get a good amount of paid time off from your new job, you would be able to do a lot of those things that I can't.

I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't move, but consider how much of his life you'll miss if he doesn't live with you.


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Question: it may be that I can use her EA in a counter file as grounds for divorce- marital impropriety. If it gets me an edge in my custody fight do I go with this strategy knowing that it'll get nasty?


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If you're in Massachusetts the vast majority of divorces are "no fault". If one of you is claiming "fault" the only grounds are the following:

Mass. General Laws chapter 208, section 1: adultery, desertion, gross and confirmed habits of intoxication, cruel and abusive treatment, non- support, impotency, or a prison sentence of 5 or more years.

What did your lawyer say exactly about marital impropriety and how would you prove it?


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Question: it may be that I can use her EA in a counter file as grounds for divorce- marital impropriety. If it gets me an edge in my custody fight do I go with this strategy knowing that it'll get nasty?


Like Acc said, it's probably not an option. Courts finally got tired of trying to sort out fault in D cases, so most states have adopted "no fault" stances. It may not be fair, but it sure makes their lives easier. If your W is physically and/ or mentally abusive then that would be grounds for granting you full custody, but engaging in an affair is just not a big deal to the courts.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Another Stander,
You seem to have a handle on the legal side of things- not to hijack, but could you go over to my thread and give me your thoughts on some of my questions?
Thanks! (I'm in Alabama.)


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"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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What's the latest Teppo?


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Question: it may be that I can use her EA in a counter file as grounds for divorce- marital impropriety. If it gets me an edge in my custody fight do I go with this strategy knowing that it'll get nasty?


If you have documented proof then use anything and everything you can. Her concern is no longer your concern.



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Hi all,

It's been some time since I've posted here. I hope everyone is doing well.

My situation remains the same, unfortunately. Lately I've been having bad dreams about my W where I plead with her to stay and not leave me. I think I've actually cried in my sleep. I'm also dealing with bouts of depression. I've been taking a prescription for several months, but I feel that it doesn't work.

I'm still living with my W and the D is not final. My W hasn't come to me on when she wants to tell our son about her D plans. I tried to have a conversation with her about it, but it turned into an argument where she threw out her favorite phrase "Stop bullying me". I'm also waiting on this job that I applied for, which I think I have a high probability of getting. There's so much up in the air right now, it's hard to think straight.

I plan on joining a divorce recovery program this week called Divorce Care. Has anyone heard of it?

On the bright side, I've had to turn away a couple of women who I met through my Swing (that's Big Band music to you folks) dances. I must confess that it was exhilarating to feel wanted again, to have a woman ask me questions about my life, and who simply liked me. I got their phone numbers and for about a week enjoyed flirtatious bantering with them via text messages. I realized how addictive and exciting it was to do this and that this is how my W must've felt when she started her EA. I also realized how quickly this situation could've developed into a sexual affair. Knowing that, I can't believe that my W's EA has not developed into a PA.

I felt conflicted at first, but then I figured, my W is the who filed for D and told me that she doesn't want me - why should I keep myself from having fun? To be clear, there was no physical activity with either woman and I only met one outside of dancing for coffee. In the end, I cut off communication with both. What I learned through this little adventure is that there are a lot of women out there, so I feel encouraged about my future prospects. Is this taking detaching too far?

.


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Just bumping up my pity story.


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So my W is prepping the house for the market. How should I respond if she asks me to help out? She's been working the past two days. I've been spending wonderful times with my S.


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Prehaps this a slip up on detaching, but my S and I went to an outdoor play last night. I texted her to let her know where we were. I took a photo of my son at the venue and texted it her with the comment: "You're welcome to join us". I never got a response.


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Tempo,

I find myself doing the same thing on a regular bases. You had a fun time with S so her not responding didn't change the evening. Just keep going and use your t as a learning experience.

Good luck


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Hi Teppo, welcome back and glad to hear you're doing well. It is indeed exhilarating and affirming to know there are plenty of available women out there who will be interested in you.

Glad you're detaching and no you can't detach too much. It's okay to offer to have W join you with your son, it's good for him. Just do it with no expectations so you can't be disappointed.

Stay strong!

Acc


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M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
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Acc,

Good to hear from you. I hope you're well.

I've been dealing with a lot of self doubt and depression this week. I'm still GALing, but I'm really missing the company of a woman. It's not just sex, but feeling wanted. I really miss that. It kills me to be outdoors on a beautiful day and see families and couples having fun while I go through this hell. The misery is compounded by the fact that my W is carrying on with her EA, which may or may not have escalated into a PA.


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Since I can't vent at my W, I'm going to do it here. People said this is the place to do it. So here goes:

I hate hearing you wake up in the morning and hearing your shoe heels on the floor after you get dressed for work.

I hate it when you say you're going for a walk when I know full well that you're lying to my face and likely meeting the OM.

I hate it when I see you texting because I feel that you're texting the OM.

I hate it when you text in front of me and our son for the same reason above. The fact that you've texted your paramour in front of our son during his baseball games and at home disgusts me.

I can't believe you're about to break my son's heart and take him partially away from me so you can be "free".

I hate how you are in denial of your EA.

I hate it that you could care less if I died tonight.

I hate it that you haven't expressed a bit of remorse for this whole mess.

I hate that you don't care about how this divorce is affecting me.

I hate it how you're acting like your life is fantastic, while I weep at night worrying where I'm going to live and how I'm going to support our S.

I hate that you've painted me as some sort of monster to your friends in order to justify your actions.

I hate how you conveniently leave out your EA when talking to your friends about the D.

I hate how you have ruined my life.


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Originally Posted By: Teppo
Since I can't vent at my W, I'm going to do it here. People said this is the place to do it. So here goes:


I hate it that you could care less if I died tonight. Me too

I hate it that you haven't expressed a bit of remorse for this whole mess. Me too

I hate that you don't care about how this divorce is affecting me. Me too

I hate how you have ruined my life. And the mess you have made of your own. And that you killed the good person I loved, replaced him with a childish monster and after 2 years are still lost in crazy self-destruction.












Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Thanks for your input, Treasur. I hope you're doing well.


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I'm fine, Teppo. Just rolling with it


Me: 53 H:38
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S 1/16
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It's tough, I know.


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Toughest time of my life, Teppo, same for most of us I think. How are you doing?


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
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Doing as best as I can. Still can't believe I'm going through this.

I've been feeling paralyzed when it comes to making financial plans for the inevitable separation to come. I know I have to qualify for a mortgage for example, but I don't want to think about it. Today I started the process and actually feel good about it. The only time I'm happy is when I'm with my son.


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I got a letter from my W's L asking that the house be put on the market next Monday! We haven't even told our S that W wants a D! My L wrote a letter asking that we tell our S about the D before putting the house on the market. I also need time to figure out my fianances. My W is controlling this whole situation and I feel helpless. Hopefully my L's letter will work.


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Teppo,

Do you plan on keeping the house?

You are definitely not helpless! You need to start to take action to get your ducks in a row.

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You're right, HH19.


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