Hi...newcomer here...I'm not sure this is the right place to post..so if not, please correct me!
..I discovered over the last 3-4 years, my W has been a WW and had 3 A's with 3 different married OM's...I eventually figured it out, compiled my own evidence...confronted her several times and she simply lied to my face...all the while using all the chat apps with encryption...my instincts were ALWAYS right in retrospect...it's amazing how that is...
recently, the day I basically caught her, it was like she finally gave up and admitted it (it was a relief to hear it from her own mouth but not any less painful given the thousands of lies preceding)...so, I told her to end it as a mandatory step... and she didn't agree to that...I went through complete hell for about three days...that's when I discovered this website..I applied a few of the concepts...an important one was moving her bedding out of the MBR....within less than 24 hours, she claims she has ended the current A with OM....this seems like a positive step..but I need to make sure she's sorry for the A's and not sorry she was caught
I have withdrawn all kinds of clingy actions on my part, begging, etc....no hugging, cuddling...etc....some recommended DB'ing techniques...
now that she claims to have ended the A, do I alter my behavior to seek MC with her?? her recent A was with a co-worker who she eats lunch with daily or frequently...do I demand this discontinue?
I just got the DR book ..I understand the importance of GAL, and realize I need to work on myself FOR myself...
I love W and I believe she loves me...what's the next step?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
thank you for this wonderful resource....I'm doing my best to follow Sandi's rules...one day I'm saying "I can do this" and withdrawing myself...the next day the pain is unbearable as I think about what my WW did...
thank you for this wonderful resource....I'm doing my best to follow Sandi's rules...one day I'm saying "I can do this" and withdrawing myself...the next day the pain is unbearable as I think about what my WW did...
1) Sandi's "rules" are merely guidelines and NOT ALL APPLY...
2) IF your w says she wants to reconcile, (which I'm not clear about), she will need to do some heavy lifting, and you will need to figure out how to go forward from here.
3) Reconciling is hard, but "piecing" together after an affair is even harder.
On one hand, you won't be able to hold it over her head forever, or throw it in her face everytime you two fight.
On the other hand, the long term deceit is something you will have to get past
AND SHE WILL NEED TO EXPLORE b/c make no mistake, this is a character flaw in her and if she does not get IC to figure this out, and change it, this is not a hopeful situation.
You'll also need IC to learn how to get past this and how to cope with the damage you feel that you cannot share with your w (not that you "should not" but b/c I imagine some of it is too personal and you might be inhibited from sharing it all or baring your soul, for awhile...)
and you can then or simultaneously get marriage counseling.
My big regret after reconciling for a decade, is that we did not piece well (my MIL got cancer right after we recon so we shelved the piecing for awhile and never got back to it - idiotic mistake on my end but I thought we were past the MLC. Thought we were alright, etc. I never insisted on H getting IC b/c I thought he'd learned his lesson.
Now I can see that he did not see it as a character flaw in himself but an emotional/financial blunder that cost HIM good r's with our kids and "some collateral damage" to them and me (meaning, it was not so much that HE had inflicted pain on us, but that we did not see him in the same admiring light).
Whatever boundaries you set up, you darn well better enforce. Issue NO ultimatums you are not willing to enforce.
Check out BluWave's thread b/c in hers, her h is willing to do the hard consistent long term work of repairing a marriage after infidelity.
And it's still really hard for her. I am not saying you are blameless in your marriage but this was not a fling of your w ("a one time mistake")
or something she did after prolonged temptation away from home and unmet needs inside the marriage; this was a pattern of hers. A series of choices...so
When a cheating spouse is vague about their past and only confesses after getting caught, it's a red flag.
Be clear on what she is saying and doing. She needs to be transparent.
Remember that whatever your flaws, she is not the hero and you're not the villain.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hi...newcomer here...I'm not sure this is the right place to post..so if not, please correct me!
..I discovered over the last 3-4 years, my W has been a WW and had 3 A's with 3 different married OM's...I eventually figured it out, compiled my own evidence...confronted her several times and she simply lied to my face...all the while using all the chat apps with encryption...my instincts were ALWAYS right in retrospect...it's amazing how that is... recently, the day I basically caught her, it was like she finally gave up and admitted it (it was a relief to hear it from her own mouth but not any less painful given the thousands of lies preceding)...so, I told her to end it as a mandatory step... and she didn't agree to that.. RED FLAG^^^ (in addition to the whole - you know - affair X 3) She has a lot of nerve to refuse to end an affair.
What on earth did she use as an excuse for that?? I am speechless that she'd deny the need to end it. Did she want an open marriage or what?
What did she expect you'd do??
.I went through complete hell for about three days...that's when I discovered this website..I applied a few of the concepts...an important one was moving her bedding out of the MBR....within less than 24 hours, she claims she has ended the current A with OM. with what proof of ending it? A no contact letter or call in front of you??
...this seems like a positive step..but I need to make sure she's sorry for the A's and not sorry she was caught you cannot "make sure she's sorry for X and not just Y". It's not possible to know if it does not show FROM Her...
I have withdrawn all kinds of clingy actions on my part, begging, etc....no hugging, cuddling...etc....some recommended DB'ing techniques...
now that she claims to have ended the A, do I alter my behavior to seek MC with her??
SHE seeks counseling, SHE makes the appointments whether it's MC or her own and or yours, etc. YOU do not make the appointments. You do not drag her to "marriage improvement classes"...
You tell her to pack her things and prepare for a divorce
UNLESS you see follow up action FROM HER...does she understand that she inflicted pain on you??
her recent A was with a co-worker who she eats lunch with daily or frequently...do I demand this discontinue?
yes. No brainer. Bad enough she works there with him (which I'd have her end asap as professionally possible (within a month or so at most)
NO LUNCHES that's just crazy. Sorry but that is a blatant boundary. No question.
I just got the DR book ..I understand the importance of GAL, and realize I need to work on myself FOR myself...
I love W and I believe she loves me...what's the next step?
See above. ^^'
And while I support DB philosophy, you must know that without a lot of remorse and transparent follow through effort on HER End,
You have to prepare for the worst.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
-Her excuse for not ending it was seemingly an attempt to seek an OM.....I said "we never agreed to have other partners" and she said "we never disagreed"...this is the most unbelievable garbage I've ever heard...
-the only proof of ending the A is a little stick-it note saying "I ended it with OM"
-I believe she understands she has inflicted pain on me, but I'm not sure if she's simply sorry that I feel pain and not sorry for her actions
-when I told her to discontinue all contact with the OM, she claimed it's not possible since they need to work together and report to the same manager...do I ask her to change jobs?...
-I find it very hard to even talk to her at this point...I'm trying to be detached...how frequently should I be conversing with her about steps to take? I'm trying not to show my pain with her and appear to be "contented" after my first few days of self-destruction...should I hound her or bring it up once a week...??!
-now, I DO accept my contribution to our relationship problems and intimacy problems...absolutely...why would a person who loves you choose this course of action over working on it together...this baffles me....my W is a supposed logical thinking manager...this is complete contradiction with her actions...
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives ...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down...W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I'm not clear on whether your W has offered to work on the M or not? Seems a little insincere that she just left you a sticky about ending the A. Not sure she's exactly all-in like she needs to be if y'all want to turn this around. What has she told you about her view of where the M stands?
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I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, eventually building into mega resentment...
I can only imagine. I used to get testy with W if I went without for a week, LOL! Clearly there's a big problem there. If your W is having affairs then she does have sexual needs that aren't getting fulfilled, and it sounds like you do too. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a huge factor in why you're here. There is an SSM forum here, it's not very active but it might help you to read through the few threads that are there:
You're right....it does seem insincere to get a sticky with this info
...she asked me "what are the things you want?" And then said "it doesn't mean you're going to get them"
There's no doub the lack of intimacy is the prime reason we are where we are...but I'm baffled why my W couldn't ever say "lets get help together" and felt this was the best alternative....of course we both have needs...at a certain point she was unwilling to communicate about them...she claims she was never able to tell me what she wants....and that I should've been able to figure it out "like other guys"...is it such a crime for her to tell me?....or teach me?
People have mentioned a "no contact" letter for OM....how does that work?...is it a letter she sends the OM?
I still need to fully understand where she is and whether she feels there is any chance of R in this M....at this point all I'm asking for is a solid sincere attempt
I'm wondering do I keep total distance from her and ignore her or do I try and spend time with her at this point and discuss things in small trickles? It's damn tough to suppress the anger and pain right now
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives ...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down...W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Hello Canesco,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is estimated that one of every three married couples struggles with problems associated with mismatched sexual desire.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
...she asked me "what are the things you want?" And then said "it doesn't mean you're going to get them"
Sounds like she's checked out. You're in the right place!
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but I'm baffled why my W couldn't ever say "lets get help together" and felt this was the best alternative....
She probably did try and you likely perceived it as nagging and shut down on her. This is addressed in DR. At some point she quit trying and started planning her escape. It may have been months or even years ago.
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of course we both have needs...at a certain point she was unwilling to communicate about them...she claims she was never able to tell me what she wants....and that I should've been able to figure it out "like other guys"...is it such a crime for her to tell me?....or teach me?
Read the 5 Love Languages, it'll explain a lot about this dynamic to you. Both of you waited for the other to fill your "love tank", and when neither did, the other's tank just emptied out. At that point one or both check out of the relationship. There's more great info in there too, you likely have different LL's and we all tend to try to show love through our own language rather than the other person's. For example, your LL may be physical touch but your W's is words of affirmation. So if you touch her all the time you -think- you're showing her love, but it may mean little or nothing to her. At the same time you may never offer her WoA because it's not your language, but what you fail to realize is it is what she needs the most and she's not getting it.
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I still need to fully understand where she is and whether she feels there is any chance of R in this M....at this point all I'm asking for is a solid sincere attempt
Read Sandi's rules. Read DR. Spend some times going through threads here and read the advice offered to others. You are not in a position to expect anything of her right now, she's one foot out the door. You need to remove all pressure from her!
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I'm wondering do I keep total distance from her and ignore her or do I try and spend time with her at this point and discuss things in small trickles? It's damn tough to suppress the anger and pain right now
Giving her time and space is not ignoring her, it's just pulling back, not pursuing, not pressuring. If she want to talk then LISTEN and VALIDATE, nothing more. Don't argue/ explain/ reason/ negotiate. Just listen.
Sorry you are here buddy. This is a rough path to go down but you CAN come out the other side a better/stronger person.
First, believe NONE of what she says. A sticky note saying she has ended it with OM is NOT enough to prove that she is no longer a WW. In fact, I can guarantee that she is still wayward. No doubt in my mind. You've got to see her hit rock bottom and express true remorse before you can even begin to start trusting her again.
My advice is to detach, 180 and GAL. Most important is the detaching and it is the hardest. Right now, you've essentially got to mentally leave the M (because she has) and put all of your focus on you. If she's had multiple A's, she has some serious issues and only she can fix that. You can't. Spend this time working on you and do your best to forget about her. Let her sit in the mess she created and figure out what she needs to do to fix the situation. Do NOT be too quick to take her back. This will take a lot of time. Much longer than you think it will. Find a path forward that doesn't include her. I know it sounds backwards but when she sees that you are willing to move on without her AND show her that you life is better without her, she will see what an awesome H she is losing and it will help drag her out of the fog. I don't possibly see how it can work for her to continue working with OM. For me, she would need to get another job or at a bare minimum, move to another department where she can't have any contact with him. Do not initiate R talk. I would go LRT so long as she is still wayward, and again, she IS.
If she is going to end it with OM, she needs to send a letter (which you help write) or make a phone call in which you are listening to. She needs to be very clear that the R with OM is over and that there is to be no contact ever again. There also needs to be a transparency plan in place where you have access to all her emails, texts, etc. The "encrypted" apps need to go away.
But I think it is premature to even begin discussing these things. She is still wayward. She is in NO position to ask you what you want and then in the same breath tell you that she may be willing to not comply. That's BS. You and you alone get to decide the conditions of R. You MUST be firm with her.
she just texted me saying "I can be gone for the weekend or ever...you need to let me know what you want to make your life easier"....how should I respond to this?
I've just scheduled a coaching session for next week
...what would I expect her hitting rock bottom and express true remorse to look like?
..you're saying I should totally avoid prodding her about anything right now?
...my desire is to go into deep discussions about why she did it, etc...but whats the DB'ing smart way? ..do i avoid having dinner with her and stuff?....do i still be nice? it's hard to smile when I see her right now..i feel disgusted and paralyzed
if there's a letter which I help write to the OM, what do you think the content would be??....
she just texted me saying "I can be gone for the weekend or ever...you need to let me know what you want to make your life easier"....how should I respond to this?
Hmmmm, well frankly it sounds like a cry for attention more than anything. This is tricky because she's fresh out of an affair (maybe). So on the one hand you want to validate, but on the other hand you have to set some boundaries about OM at some point. Honestly I think this is something you really need to discuss with a DB coach. But for now, maybe just reply with "It sounds like you are frustrated, is that how you feel? I am sorry you're going through so much right now. I want you to stay and work on our relationship with me, but what's more important to me right now is that you do what you feel is best for you, and I will support you no matter what that choice is even if it's taking some time away for yourself. If you would like to talk about it I would be happy to, just let me know."
In other words, you support her, you are there for her IF SHE WANTS YOU TO BE, but you are not putting pressure on her one way or the other.
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...what would I expect her hitting rock bottom and express true remorse to look like?
Read TXHubby's thread, his W is a classic example of a WAS bottoming out and returning with a humbled spirit.
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..you're saying I should totally avoid prodding her about anything right now?
...my desire is to go into deep discussions about why she did it, etc...but whats the DB'ing smart way?
The opposite of that.
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..do i avoid having dinner with her and stuff?....do i still be nice? it's hard to smile when I see her right now..i feel disgusted and paralyzed
Read Sandi's rules, it'll answer a lot of your questions.
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if there's a letter which I help write to the OM, what do you think the content would be??....
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Do not contact OM. That will look to her like control and manipulation, and may have the adverse effect of driving her back to him.
ok! Thanks...I'm trying this approach RIGHT NOW...kind of turning it around on her...it's a reverse approach right? instead of having her saying she can leave and have time away IF I WANT...I'm saying she can leave and have time away if thats what SHE wants, right?...the decision is HERS...not mine? and if she so decides, I will support her?
you are right...definitely seemed to be a cry for attention...as soon as I applied this technique she shows she was dying to talk to me about her job...of course it is all about her...big surprise...it seemed to be driving her mad i wasnt talking to her
I have NOT read your whole thread, I'm catching up...but
Originally Posted By: canseco
Thanks so much for your responses!
-Her excuse for not ending it was seemingly an attempt to seek an OM.....I said "we never agreed to have other partners" and she said "we never disagreed"...this is the most unbelievable garbage I've ever heard...\ um, wow, priceless. This^^ may be an entry in the "amazing things" said...
-the only proof of ending the A is a little stick-it note saying "I ended it with OM"
speechless
-I believe she understands she has inflicted pain on me, but I'm not sure if she's simply sorry that I feel pain and not sorry for her actions
-when I told her to discontinue all contact with the OM, she claimed it's not possible since they need to work together and report to the same manager...do I ask her to change jobs?... You do not "ask" her.
Does SHE WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU?? Since she broke her vows, she has a bit of heavy lifting to do now. Sorry it's heavy but sheesh...so is your broken heart.
You inform her that b/c you do NOT want an open marriage and you do value the vows, you will not tolerate a 3 way marriage.
She can do what she likes but you will not be in an open marriage. (so yeah, she has to change jobs)
yes[/color]
-I find it very hard to even talk to her at this point...I'm trying to be detached...how frequently should I be conversing with her about steps to take?
what's to say? I mean you say it once (maybe twice if there's so much emotion you actually think she misheard.)
Then you follow up with action on your end. It's hard, I know. Very very hard
but not that complicated
I'm trying not to show my pain with her and appear to be "contented" after my first few days of self-destruction...should I hound her or bring it up once a week...??! No no no. This is not her saying "gee Idk if I want to be married situation"
and you trying to be all busy GAL & saying "I better act as if I'm GAL and have a PMA".
This is her having an affair and deeply wounding you
and damaging the m, so there's no YOU acting as if all is well.
No, you are allowed to be hurt - and frankly it'd be strange to me if you were "'contented."
I mean
WTF?
-now, I DO accept my contribution to our relationship problems and intimacy problems...absolutely...why would a person who loves you choose this course of action over working on it together...this baffles me....my W is a supposed logical thinking manager...this is complete contradiction with her actions...
I'll read the rest of your thread
but it's NOT about logic. At all. Few affairs are thought out.
Most affairs are justified in the hearts/minds of the partner who has one. And especially with women, imo, the justifications are emotional and detailed
('I've been rejected so much I feel ugly/undesireable - but here is this man who says I AM desirable, so I'll show h")
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...
this^^ is a big big deal.
She may feel you have no right to question her and that may explain her saying you "never said you could not have an open m", given that there was no sex inside the m.
Though we promise fidelity to our partners, meaning we won't have sex with others, there is also the understanding we will provide that to our spouses. When we don't, it tends to make people feel justified going outside the m, obviously. What would be different in the m, if she were to commit?
I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, what does this^^^ mean? It is very general. Vague. "Poor communication" does not excuse or equate to 5 years of feeling rejected. No offense, okay?
I get that it must have felt mutual but - sexist as it is, when there's no sex or even attempt at intimacy, the woman tends to feel the man isn't attracted to her, (guys do tend to initiate more, right or wrong) so when there's no attempts
that gets depressing and develops bitterness and a - well, you get my point.
Be more specific in your hoped for solutions than saying "we will communicate better about sex". How? And then what?
You need real tools, and I'd suggest you seek them out b/c if you have not come upon them already then they require professional help. NO SHAME IN THAT....seriously.
eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives lacking passion in the m, or feeling as if you are not desired is a real ego blow and will breed deep seated resentment in time. Yes that can, obviously, lead to a WAW or an A...
...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down... what did you initiate? How? What does "shot down" mean? Ever see a sex therapist?What was your sex life like when you fell in love?
W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Do you see any^^^ parallels?
You will both need to Lose the score cards and evidence gathering if you want to rebuild this marriage.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...
this^^ is a big big deal.
She may feel you have no right to question her and that may explain her saying you "never said you could not have an open m", given that there was no sex inside the m.
Though we promise fidelity to our partners, meaning we won't have sex with others, there is also the understanding we will provide that to our spouses. When we don't, it tends to make people feel justified going outside the m, obviously. What would be different in the m, if she were to commit?
[/color] A key admission of hers is that when we were having sex that she didn't know how to ask me for what she wants....she has selective perception because we definitely had periods of good sex...I feel like that's necessary in her own mind to help justify her actions...I also accept my role in leading to her feelings...and I have changed in other ways for the better...if she were to commit, I believe the change would be she would have a partner who is older and wiser and in tune to what she wants....
[color:#FF0000]
I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, what does this^^^ mean? It is very general. Vague. "Poor communication" does not excuse or equate to 5 years of feeling rejected. No offense, okay?
I get that it must have felt mutual but - sexist as it is, when there's no sex or even attempt at intimacy, the woman tends to feel the man isn't attracted to her, (guys do tend to initiate more, right or wrong) so when there's no attempts
[color:#FF0000]she would dismiss what I felt were attempts at intimacy...or me expressing what I want...and because she didn't want to do those things that I wanted I should just accept that for the fact she didn't want to do them...ie. I would say "let's take a shower together, or bath" as a way to get warmed up...she seemed to consider this the stupidest idea ever conceived...I can live with that, but it's hard to say I didn't initiate things...or I would ask her to dress up in some minimal way...NO WAY!....she has now communicated that she was always frustrated if I got too excited too fast...that explanation makes more sense...she never was able to communicate anything like that back then
that gets depressing and develops bitterness and a - well, you get my point.
Be more specific in your hoped for solutions than saying "we will communicate better about sex". How? And then what?
You need real tools, and I'd suggest you seek them out b/c if you have not come upon them already then they require professional help. NO SHAME IN THAT....seriously. [/color] eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives lacking passion in the m, or feeling as if you are not desired is a real ego blow and will breed deep seated resentment in time. Yes that can, obviously, lead to a WAW or an A...
[/color] Yes, I resented her using me as some sort of sleep aid...in cases where there would be no sex...and yet now she has acted because she has needs...I'm wondering if she has simply changed in many ways and selectively remembering things to fit her new narrative?
...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down...[/b] [color:#3333FF] what did you initiate? How? What does "shot down" mean? Ever see a sex therapist?What was your sex life like when you fell in love?
We never saw a sex therapist....she has never suggested any counselling or therapists whatsoever...I feel like I am ABSOLUTELY there in one second if she suggests these things now...
W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Do you see any^^^ parallels?
You will both need to Lose the score cards and evidence gathering if you want to rebuild this marriage.
Yes, it's true...these score cards are ridiculous...especially if we are able to recognize where we went wrong back when we acted stupidly or inconsiderately...
I should also add, just as a nice extra, she admits to unprotected sex with her A's....this is unbelievable...
and today she's frustrated because I'm not really talking to her so she uses this line of "what do you want me to do to make your life easy?"
yet, even with all of this, I would take her back (and maybe many of you would say I'm a fool for this)...at least make an attempt...because we never even made a solid attempt together to work on our issues...it's true that she possibly has had the A's to force me to end the M and this must be considered...
the crazy thing is prior to meeting her, I had a very high sex drive...but I don't believe she did...it's possible her body has changed now....
but I guess I want to know what is a major way to send her the message how I feel and what I expect from her....but without forcing her into a drastic change like "that's it...it's over", etc....should I tell her to leave for the weekend??...or move out?...get tested for STD's immediately?
Breathe...do you know what you actually want and want to do starting from where you are now? And what boundaries you need to protect yourself and your own needs?
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Sorry but I cannot recall your ages now. And no kids, right?
(If you can add a few basics to your signature block in your profile, they'll be reminders to us of your backstory so we don't confuse yo with other posters. The more details that fit the signature, the easier for us to give appropriate support).
Originally Posted By: canseco
I should also add, just as a nice extra, she admits to unprotected sex with her A's....this is unbelievable...
and today she's frustrated because I'm not really talking to her so she uses this line of "what do you want me to do to make your life easy?"
yet, even with all of this, I would take her back (and maybe many of you would say I'm a fool for this)...at least make an attempt...because we never even made a solid attempt together to work on our issues...it's true that she possibly has had the A's to force me to end the M and this must be considered... but either way^^^ if you never directly addressed your issues, AND OR she is having "exit" affair(s), you yourself would benefit by learning to speak to this,^^^
and by GAL and moving forward with or without your w.
Do you have a therapist or counselor (for you individually, not as a couple)? I would strongly suggest you get one asap
not b/c there is something "wrong" about you - but b/c you need tools for this crap in real life.
Also, no one HERE is going to call you a fool for wanting to reconcile. This is a pro marriage support site.
IT is NOT a "save your m at all cost" site, however. Remember that. Saving yourself is always going to be the first step but some people cannot or will not do that
and the rub is, that some don't see how their inability to show self care, also relates to their ability to get respect and love in a healthy way. In other words
the very thing that paralyzes them from doing what they need to do (b/c they are afraid to lose their spouse)
is what got them here in the first place. Sometimes people let their fears get so powerful that they bring about the very result they feared in the first place.
the crazy thing is prior to meeting her, I had a very high sex drive...but I don't believe she did...it's possible her body has changed now.... but I guess I want to know what is a major way to send her the message how I feel and what I expect from her ^^^words calmly expressed, with action that is consistent with the words. It is not complicated. I didn't say it was "easy" but it is pretty simple.
....but without forcing her into a drastic change like "that's it...it's over", etc....should I tell her to leave for the weekend??...or move out?...get tested for STD's immediately?
...this is crazy
I'm not sure what you think you can control in HER. How can you "force her into a drastic change"??
You only control you.
the rest of this is you spinning
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Of course I have never thought I could control her...never have I tried either...we are free people
..my thinking is definitely not to save the M at the expense of two people not wanting to be part of it together...
I get the feeling she almost WANTS me to punish her in some way like asking her to move out to help herself accept she behaved badly...
she says she misses me...I moved her out of the MBR.....I stopped all cuddling and hugging as described in Sandy's rules..
my only true hope is that if she can recognize things like the fact her A's are very damaging to me right now in this moment and not feel I'm being selfish for thinking that...and that I'm not asking her to ignore the problems in our relationship which got her to that point...if she truly doesn't want me in her life, there is nothing I can do to force her to of course...that's obvious to me..
i am 100% ready to face our problems head-on together however we need to...of course if she is a willing participant..
the problem is, in her mind, I feel she has created a narrative where she believes she had the A's as a response to my neglect and it's almost like any attempt by me to say "though I understand your feelings that may have gotten you to the point of thinking an A is the best thing to do, that was wrong"....that this is somehow the wrong thing for me to be saying to her?!
I have seen a therapist before....we had planned to see her together...she agreed...then we went and she changed her mind at the last second and decided she wanted to go alone...I don't have a problem with that...but that was the only time she went..
I am working with a DB coach starting next week
I want to improve myself....I have listened to her criticisms of me over the years which she would pull from her scorecard...and I've taken them to heart and made conscious efforts to work on and improve those things...she even acknowledges my successes in these things....and I look back and can say "why did I act like that? it was very immature or stupid...I don't think like that anymore"....so, I am working on me...but, I know there is no hope of R without complete collaboration
My W asked if I want to go to the zoo with her the weekend. Do I turn her down or go?! What do I do? I'm sorry if this Is a stupid question. i do hate the feeling of punishing her...it still doesn't feel good to hurt someone I love What should I do?
Stop trying to mind read - it really won't help and you cannot know what she is thinking unless she tells you. Go if you want to and it fits your DB/180 goals. But if you go, no expectations...think of it as a trip to the zoo with a neighbour you don't know very well!
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Hi!...so , i ended up spending Saturday at the zoo and then Sunday just on a long 7 mile walk with my W....I avoided bringing up any "us" at all costs....I never had any expectations by spending time with her...it goes without saying I DO love spending time with her and it's my impression she enjoyed the time with me...but, I am back to reality now..do I need to have a small talk with her like:
-Can you pls get tested for STDs/hiv ASAP for your own health? -I wanted to ask her how she feels about sex therapy -I wanted to ask her how she feels about individual counselling..
is this the wrong time/approach?...I feel these things MUST be communicated somehow..
Just wondering if I should be purely focusing on Improving myself and GAL or calmly asking W to arrange counseling for herself as well as us. I feel Guilty because her work is so stressful she's about to crack So I'm just lost about how to proceed right now.
Do nothing, just detach and GAL. "I feel these things MUST be communicated somehow.." Of course that's how YOU feel but a trip to the zoo is NOT a whole-hearted commitment to work on your M.
If you feel you need counselling for YOU...by all means do it. It is her choice if she wants to ask YOU if you want to do MC, or if she needs IC. And the sex/STD stuff? Not really relevant until or unless you guys start sleeping together again as part of a piecing process...but it seems far from where you are right now, so I wouldn't give it any thought at all.
I've found reminding myself of the pursuit/distance thing really helpful. GAL your head off. Focus on you. Her work stress? Meh, not your business and why would you feel guilty? Did you put a gun to her head and force her to have affairs? Some of the guys who post here have some useful man stuff to say about respect and no more mr nice guy. As a woman, I think respecting my man is really important without wanting him to be a nasty chest-beater!
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
But, not good at being mean or short... do I still remain pleasant with her? Still spend time with her? Should I stop telling her what I'm doing And when I'm doing it? She complained about not being able to reach me Via text. She's breaking down afraid she will be fired from her job and She is the primary breadwinner in our M.
She of course has already noticed I've lost weight in my rapid GAL plan.
Quick thoughts, but some of the guys here will do better...
But, not good at being mean or short... do I still remain pleasant with her? - Be calm and civil like you would to a neighbour or slightly odd acquaintance. Still spend time with her? Should I stop telling her what I'm doing. - Not much. Yes, other than practicalities. And when I'm doing it? She complained about not being able to reach me via text. - Tough. Welcome to the new world she has made. She fired you from being her H...different rules apply now. She's breaking down afraid she will be fired from her job and She is the primary breadwinner in our M. - Again, tough with a validation of 'gosh that must feel stressful'. Maybe you need to get a different job that earns more. Guess that will be helpful GAL if you do end up divorced?
She of course has already noticed I've lost weight in my rapid GAL plan. - GAL is for YOU. Meh to if she notices, just meh. The situation won't be fixed by a 6 pack (although it might make you feel good!)
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I ask myself why is it that people that love each other and have shared The best moments in each others' lives get to the point where they Would want to hurt each other... it's truly ugly. Why would the choice To have an A be a better one than at least a solid attempt at working on And improving those things that are wrong or not working.
My W for years pointed out she wasn't happy (I dismissed it because we always would come back to each other)..but she said I would hate for us to hate each other. I always said that wouldn't happen. But slowly and steadily we both added negativity. And we only see what the other person is doing.
The thing is: I still don't hate her. In fact, I love her more. She in turn seems to do the same thing.
But it is sooooo easy to get into a game where the more we can hurt them because they hurt us becomes a justifiable approach.
This is why counseling is so crucial and especially those sessions where we learn skills depending on specific situations.
Every fight I had with my W. I started it because I wanted to win the argument or wanted her to realize what SHE was doing (I was arrogantly dismissing my own culpability). But every time it would escalate I would sit in a corner extremely upset I let that happen. It seems my W. has similar sentiments but pride, hurt, fear, anxiety, pain etc... all block us in this process.
The only solution is to stop adding to the cycle. And hopefully both (all) sides do the same.
I don't want to win a fight to feel good. My ego doesn't need it. I accept My role in my W getting to the point of extreme feelings of frustration And/or neglect where she felt the solution was an A. I am open To all and any criticisms as long as there's a mutual feeling of collaboratively Improving our M. I feel immense pain and sadness and now realize it's key that I work on myself and GAL.... But I accept and understand Her feelings. Just not her actions.
I ask myself why is it that people that love each other and have shared The best moments in each others' lives get to the point where they Would want to hurt each other... it's truly ugly. Why would the choice To have an A be a better one than at least a solid attempt at working on And improving those things that are wrong or not working.
depends.
Some affairs are exit affairs for marriages that were on life support and inertia kept them technically married, OR entitled affairs that WAS feels they deserve. That can be due to unmet needs in the marriage that they have expressed and in their hearts they have felt rejected or neglected a long time
and their pain itself was not enough for their h's to change anything...and when temptation comes along and they are vulnerable, it just seems easier to start fresh with someone who makes them feel as they had once felt with their h's...(let alone deal with their h's anger now)...
versus an Entitled affair for a spouse who is selfish and doesn't like having to put other's needs ahead of theirs, (including children), or sees themselves as deserving whatever they want
but they rarely admit^^ they are that self absorbed. They know how it sounds.
So they will justify the affair they "deserve" by tearing down their spouse or revising the marriage into a distorted time of utter misery.
A lot depends on what you knew and when and how you reacted to it, and how you see your w's choices.
Plus, short term "flings" or one night stands are in a very different category, so are affairs that are confessed and when you see true remorse in the spouse who has had an A.
Not sure if I answered your question but I thought I'd give it a try.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just wondering if I should be purely focusing on Improving myself and GAL this^^^ and only this, for 2 reasons.
1) you have your own sandbox to work in, with your stuff, which is your job.
2) you are all you control. Back off working on your wife. It's her job, not yours.
or calmly asking W to arrange counseling for herself as well as us. Don't ask your wife to do what is obviously needed IF SHE wants to work on the m.
I'm still not clear that is what SHE wants. Are you?
I feel Guilty because her work is so stressful she's about to crack So I'm just lost about how to proceed right now.
I'm not a T, but I think you feel guilty b/c of the role you played in your marriage getting here. That's normal but be sure to identify what causes what.
And feeling guilty (regrets) about your past is ONLY useful to guide you in new behaviors and choices, not to beat yourself up about.
And not to assume responsibility for her choices.
If you two are going to reconcile, there will be CLARITY from her about wanting to work on the m and you won't be guessing about how to interpret things.
She may not be there now. You want to become a man only a fool would leave.
So, back to YOU and your GAL...what's new in that arena?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
thank you so much...you do make an awful lot of sense..
the hardest thing is the "laissez-faire" thing...let her figure out if she even wants to work on things...and if yes, that she will figure out what's needed...it goes against your instincts...
...you're right, it's still not clear that's what she wants.. ...i had her move out of the MBR and she has been sneaking into my bed in the middle of the night...I'm not really comfortable with that..should I tell her how I feel?
she wants to rely on my support for her problems at work...and I have always been a huge supporter of her..so it's hard for me to give her the cold shoulder but it seems necessary at this point.. correct?
...so far..in terms of GAL, I realize I may have been depressed for awhile but kind of thought acknowledging that would be an excuse...and have begun to exercise daily, first thing before doing anything (I remember Tony Robbins talking about "getting disturbed" and have your runners right next to your bed)..it turns out, that single action has made me feel immensely better...I see immediate results...
[quote=canseco]thank you so much...you do make an awful lot of sense..
the hardest thing is the "laissez-faire" thing...let her figure out if she even wants to work on things...and if yes, that she will figure out what's needed...it goes against your instincts... it is not truly laissez faire la la land, in that You are supposed to be doing something. You are working on you. What does that mean to you? Are you in IC yet?
I am not sure I've heard you mention a single NEW activity or club or group or hobby you are taking up. You must detach and imo, there's no way to detach without GAL. Have you read the DR book? It's a must and if you have not read it yet, can you explain what the hold up is? Not hammering you about it but asking you to ask yourself why it has not happened. I assume it hasn't b/c SOME of your questions indicate unfamiliarity with DB concepts, that's all.
It's not that long a book, btw. Very doable.
Don't scrutinize her words or behavior. Do not make her your focus. Have zero expectations that the interaction will lead to anything, then.
YOU are your focus. You are upbeat in front of the WAS, even if the interchange is 3 minutes...that's all YOU have anyhow, b/c you have to be on your way to the new interesting person(s) you're meeting up with and doing fun things with, in exciting new places...
This way you won't be posting here about how sad you were that the WAS "Didn't even ask me to join her watching a video/went running” or 'didn't want to come with me..."
* SO Let her soak in the new you. Meaning, Do NOT expect her to notice AND comment quickly, about a new behavior in you.
The "math" of it is this:
consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
There are things about the new you that she will not have figured out yet or come to trust is real and lasting…
If there's an affair partner, that's also very distracting & will delay realizations on their end.
Like a ship headed for an iceberg, sometimes the "Get a Divorce NOW!" momentum is hard to redirect or stop.
Again, it takes TIME.
SO Make the most of the time. The KEY to Detachment is GAL. Without GAL, you are very likely to obsess yourself into depression or desperation, and that's not a good place to be. Indeed...
Again, we hammer GAL here b/c as I said, it works.
Please give yourself this week to call and join something or sign up for a class or coach or play on an adult team.
SOMETHING new to bring to your own table - for you. The inner changes can happen from external activities and then behaviors change more...outside in, versus inside out.
Too many people here want to "feel like it FIRST" and frankly, it's part of the way WAS's think too. They won't recommit until they "feel like it" but they won't DO what it takes to feel like it.
You can model this^^.
IF you can get her to Retrovaille, go. It's a marriage retreat designed for marriages in crisis, usually with one or both partners seriously considering divorce.
It will not hurt - positively not hurt your m, (unlike some MC's) and religion is not pushed on you, although the Catholic church created it.
Other than this, I would Not ask her to do anything FOR the M UNTIL
IF/WHEN she says she wants to "make it work/try/reconcile"
THEN you get out the To Do list for reconciling. Meanwhile you do you.
...you're right, it's still not clear that's what she wants.. Correct. So you need to become the guy she fell in love with, become a man only a fool would leave, AND prepare yourself for your w to be a fool.
...i had her move out of the MBR and she has been sneaking into my bed in the middle of the night...I'm not really comfortable with that..should I tell her how I feel?
No don't tell her how you feel. In this situation, you talking about your feelings esp after the fact is not appealing or strong. It'll come across as needy and weak. (Sorry).
You "had her move out of the MBR" means what?
as for her "sneaking into bed"...ask your DB coach about it. Being an a$$ is never productive, and rejecting her more now, is probably going to be more of the same old.
She believes (with some validity) that she was denied/rejected by you for years and that's the obstacle you have in motivating her to want a reconciliation.
OTOH you don't want her to cake eat.
So, what's your DB coach say? (I may be mistaken but I believe you said you hired one. They are well worth it, btw. Very specific in their advice but you can ask them to review your situation before the call so you don't spend the whole time catching them up. *IF You have to catch them up, start with the SSM part, and then go into the affair(s) - b/c that's a huge factor in your situation. )
Also to refresh my memory, you said you suspected your w was having an affair before this one, and she has now admitted that.
But the M remained sex starved, for about the past 5 years correct? So I'm Curious why you did not think intimacy needed to change, given your suspicions.
Were you only motivated to work on the m since she admitted having affairs or not knowing if she wanted to be married or what? I'm not trying to make you feel worse.
I am curious b/c if she sees your behavior in the past - as an indifference to OMs, she may genuinely be surprised at your present reaction.
she wants to rely on my support for her problems at work...and I have always been a huge supporter of her..so it's hard for me to give her the cold shoulder but it seems necessary at this point.. correct? No. You really need to read a Div Busting or Divorce Remedy book asap. The cold shoulder is Nowhere in the books and it's not a part of this approach.
detachment is not indifference
...so far..in terms of GAL, I realize I may have been depressed for awhile but kind of thought acknowledging that would be an excuse.
Well, it's something your w has had to cope with as your spouse, and it's probably an underlying problem that has polluted things between you two. I think it's legitimate to seek help for it and admit that, (not in a dramatic way expecting a reaction but b/c you are having an awakening about being happier and content in YOUR LIFE)
and then she'd know at least one piece of the marriage problems is being addressed. Otherwise why would she expect the marriage to improve?
are you directly addressing the depression or solely relying on exercise to heal?
Why not also see an IC/Therapist? Or an MD to rule out thyroid problems or other physical issues? Couldn't they also play a role in your marital history?
..and have begun to exercise daily, first thing before doing anything (I remember Tony Robbins talking about "getting disturbed" and have your runners right next to your bed)..it turns out, that single action has made me feel immensely better...I see immediate results... good!
[/quote
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
it is not truly laissez faire la la land, in that You are supposed to be doing something. You are working on you. What does that mean to you? Are you in IC yet?
A: I had my first DB coach session today...starting IC Tuesday...I feel good just making the appointment
Have you read the DR book? It's a must and if you have not read it yet, can you explain what the hold up is? Not hammering you about it but asking you to ask yourself why it has not happened. I assume it hasn't b/c SOME of your questions indicate unfamiliarity with DB concepts, that's all.
A: I have the book...reading it today!
You "had her move out of the MBR" means what?
A: I just told her I prefer if she sleep in another room based on what I read here on the forum ...the day after this, she left the note saying she ended the A
But the M remained sex starved, for about the past 5 years correct? So I'm Curious why you did not think intimacy needed to change, given your suspicions.
A: I certainly DID think it needed to change and wanted it to change...I tried to communicate that and one time she blew up and said "don't talk to me about sex"...so I laid off for quite awhile and felt she needed time...then, I convinced her to come to a counselling session with me together...she changed her mind at the last second and met alone with the counselor...but there were no subsequent meetings after that...this was last November/December ...when I figured out one of the A's, we were together on an amazing trip...it blew my mind....especially because I thought if I can help create the circumstances for intimacy like being alone together in a hotel away from all the worries of work, then we could achieve some success...but it was kind of sidetracked
The DB coach had some useful advice...
recommended a tool for what to do and what not to do: "if i do or say this, would I say this pulls her closer, push her away or be neutral at this time"..apply this thinking to my communications with W
....also said to look for small signs that we may be going in a better direction
...I explained to the coach that I'm on a roller-coaster day to day...some times the anger leads me to do the silent treatment and when I apply her recommendation I'd say that is going to push W away..so, I need to realize that's not a successful behavior
....the DB coach thought if I try something and it works, do more of it...if it's not working and pushing her away then stop
I'm feeling really frustrated today...W seems intent on talking about financial things and "if we split, _ _ _ _"
..I'm trying to do everything I can to GAL and 180... ..I'm starting IC Tuesday..and meeting with DB coach again next Wed...I understand I'm doing these things for ME
I'm not feeling remorse from her for her A's ....
yes, it's possible her A is an exit A to leave the relationship, and I realize I need to be open to separation and/or D as a possible outcome...but it's simply not clear this is the best outcome and doesn't make sense to me...even if the R is SSM...is it not valid to ATTEMPT to work on things?
I do feel that she is in some sort of mid-life crisis..
I'd like to communicate to her that making snap judgements relating to our 10-12 R doesn't make sense..
A good 180 would be to sit down with your wife and figure out the financial stuff. That is an action that will help show her that you're ready and willing to split.
almost a year since my last post...still feeling very frustrated....
w makes no attempt to show any sort of affection whatsoever...I try and kiss her and she finds every excuse possible to pull away...should i ask her to move out?...ask her to move out of the bedroom again?....my DB coach told me to avoid things which push her away...
we can still have good conversation and support each other..we travel together and have a great time...we do quite well financially together....but i dont want to live with an acquaintance....i want a meaningful intimate relationship with the person i love...is this too much to ask??...I am willing to admit my role and shortcomings in our relationship and do the work necessary, but it seems like she is not..
I never make any serious move in bed since i fear rejection and see no sign she is remotely interested...is it possible I'm misreading and she thinks since I don't make any move that i'm not interested??
It's hard to know but given her adverse reaction to any attempt at affection by me it's very possible...I just don't know if I should question her on it at this point...i'm afraid of communicating any of my feelings right now...not sure how to proceed..
w makes no attempt to show any sort of affection whatsoever...I try and kiss her and she finds every excuse possible to pull away...should i ask her to move out?...ask her to move out of the bedroom again?....my DB coach told me to avoid things which push her away...
Well you two are stuck, that's for sure. I suspect your W doesn't want you, but does want the security of a home and a double-income. As for asking her to move out, that depends on what you want. I'm sure you want to recon, but now that so much time has passed you've got to accept that you're in a sexless, loveless marriage and decide if that's acceptable. I get the impression that it's not, so yes, it may be time to separate. I suspect that separation may switch her from a WAS to a LBS, but you can't bank on that. So if you go down that road just make sure it's what you really want.
Quote:
i want a meaningful intimate relationship with the person i love...is this too much to ask??
If you ask me, my take is sex and intimacy is REQUIRED. I personally accept nothing less in my romantic relationships. It amazes me how many people out there DO accept that though. One of my coworkers has been married for around 40 years and says they have sex once or twice a year, and he has to beg for it. How people get in these situations is beyond me but it does happen. My aunt and uncle were like that too, no sex for the last 10 years of their M.
Quote:
...I am willing to admit my role and shortcomings in our relationship and do the work necessary, but it seems like she is not..
No she clearly is not working on anything. So you've got to decide if you are OK with the status quo or not.
Quote:
I never make any serious move in bed since i fear rejection and see no sign she is remotely interested...is it possible I'm misreading and she thinks since I don't make any move that i'm not interested??
More than likely she's not interested. I wouldn't put the moves on her given everything you describe, she's likely to react very negatively to it.
well..she's the primary breadwinner, but i do contribute financially managing rental properties...if we do D, it will certainly impact her financially in a huge way if everything is divided...it's so frustrating that a person you've loved doesn't seem to want to even ATTEMPT to work on things through counselling or anything...I really have not seen any ownership on her part for problems that have occurred...I feel like it's all pinned on me...over the last several years I have listened to her complaints and criticisms and truly worked on myself and been able to admit mistakes I made and change those things in myself...I don't feel the same from her...
a classic line from her:
"it shouldn't be work"..referring to a relationship...this seems to be such nonsense to me
...she truly wanted her cake...have me as a live-in roommate who manages properties while she sleeps with whoever she wants..
..the other day I finally became so frustrated that every time I attempted any affection like a hug or kiss I felt being pushed away..so i've stopped that.
..should I ask her to sleep in a different room? over the past 10 years she has had 3 A's that i know of...I don't know if she's having one right now and haven't tried to find out..
I've told her how much I want an intimate relationship with her...surely it's obvious the efforts I was making..but you cant force someone..
financially in the long run it would also be better for me to remain in this relationship...we make a good team, and we both wouldn't be where we are without each other...but, that isn't the reason to spend a life with someone
Why do you want to stay in this marriage? Let's measure it's health:
1. She has had THREE A's you know of. There's likely more.
2. She has ZERO interest in a sexual relationship with you.
3. She has ZERO interest in saving the marriage.
4. She has taken ZERO accountability for her actions.
5. She has ZERO respect for you.
6. She has ZERO empathy for you.
So, I will ask you again.
Why do you want to stay in this marriage? Finances?
I listened to a podcast that was talking about how to improve your life and meet your goals.
The question the host asked is this - "imagine it's your funeral and your loved one are around you. how do you want to be remembered by your children? by your partner? what can they say about you that reflects how you want to be remembered?"
Go do that!
You want your partner to say that she stayed with you because of money? or do you want something else?
You need to have a mindshift. It's not about decisions about whether you kick her out of the bedroom or not. Are you going to live your life to the fullest and not take disrespect from anyone? Then put that into action. Kicking her out the MR bedroom for the sake of it won't do anything if you don't have a larger game plan with life.
Who is canseco? what does canseco value? let's start there.
i'm back almost 1 yr later...still battling...I felt like there were patches of good in the bad...but she tells me she wants to see me striving aggressively and consistently for my goals--I am in agreement that I need to do that..I am able to admit my faults....and at the same time she wants me to partner with her to help her achieve financial freedom and not rely on her 9-5 job...I understand that she wants to be free of the daily grind...I also understand her frustrations with my lack of achievement personally...I am my own worst critic...I do know I can improve there
...I feel like I was escaping the depression which had led me to gain weight...and then again she starts mentioning maybe we'd be better off on our own... I'm very stressed right now...I know a D will be very painful for everybody....I don't think it's worth it...I do love her.....right now i feel like the 5000 lb of bricks of the relationship are piled on my back.....
every time I try to compromise and offer my commitment to her desired financial goals in exchange for us going to counselling she does her best to avoid the idea of counselling...this is baffling to me...what could it hurt at this point?
she tries to play it as if i'm the selfish one and it's all about me....of course I don't agree with that characterization...that's why I feel a neutral 3rd party could shed some light on things
....i feel there's some midlife crisis stuff going on here..she's turning 50 coming up...I'm 5 yrs younger..
I don't want to stay in this marriage for merely finances...I'm willing to do what it takes to alleviate financial stress that she's facing and have proposed down-sizing completely in every way...it's not good enough for her...
I would not want to stay in this marriage if i despised her...or we hated being with each other...or couldn't stand to travel together...but those things are false....we have amazing trips together...more than I can begin to count.....we have different likes and wants and needs and are different people
I do still feel there's a shred of interest in her in saving the marriage...thoughts?
and at the same time she wants me to partner with her to help her achieve financial freedom and not rely on her 9-5 job
Let me get this straight, she's telling you she wants out of the M unless you make more money so she can quit her job? Does that sound like a valid reason to try and stay married to you?
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...I understand that she wants to be free of the daily grind...
Don't we all? I've been working as an architect for 34 years now. I HATE the daily commute, hate it with a passion. I would absolutely love to stay home and work on art all day. But hey, I have bills to pay so I come to work. WELCOME TO LIFE.
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every time I try to compromise and offer my commitment to her desired financial goals in exchange for us going to counselling she does her best to avoid the idea of counselling...this is baffling to me...what could it hurt at this point?
That's a huge red flag that she's two feet out the door.
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we have amazing trips together...more than I can begin to count.....
So you are in dire financial straits, but you travel so often you can't even count the trips? Those two thoughts seem to be at odds!
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I do still feel there's a shred of interest in her in saving the marriage...thoughts?
Honestly it doesn't sound like it. She's checked out. She will offer up targets, and if you hit them she will just throw more targets up. You need to quit worrying about how you can make her happy and focus on yourself. If you feel you are falling short of your goals then work on that. But DON'T do it because you want her approval. Do it for YOU.
I've told her how much I want an intimate relationship with her...surely it's obvious the efforts I was making..but you cant force someone..
I read some of your old stuff too. It's not her you actually want, it's the person she used to be. You want an intimate relationship, just not with her really.
She wants you to do all these things for her while not giving you what you need. This is a relationship, both sides must contribute and often that means doing things we'd rather not do.
Originally Posted by canseco
I don't think it's worth it...I do love her.....right now i feel like the 5000 lb of bricks of the relationship are piled on my back.....
The person who cares the least is in the driver's seat. Over a year here, and you haven't detached. Stick around this time, tell your story some more, work on yourself, hear some more advice.
Originally Posted by canseco
I don't want to stay in this marriage for merely finances
You may not have told her this, but now you need to SHOW her this. So far, you've shown her otherwise. Sounds like you need a serious dose of GAL. I'd make myself busy 2-3 nights a week if I were you so you can enjoy your life and prepare for a life without her. Then maybe she'll feel what it's like to not have you around.
Originally Posted by canseco
I do still feel there's a shred of interest in her in saving the marriage...thoughts?
She hasn't filed for D, right? I'd say this is the case.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
