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Originally Posted By: Treasur
Cadet: I think my reason for emailing is to clarify my boundary because I think he didn't hear me. I said no to talking now unless he made a significant gesture to show me some respect. But I also said the window for any talking stops when the divorce is final. His 'not my paradigm' comment stuck with me...I think he heard an endless open door and that isn't true. What would I need him to do? Pretty simple but I didn't spell that out either. Agree a generous £ settlement to stop the to/fro that he thinks is stopping us talking but I need to protect myself. Press the pause button on finalising the divorce for 6 months to give us a chance to talk. Talk to me f2f. So it's about being clear (boundaries are tough) and knowing that his listening/memory skills are pretty poor right now.

I will stick with my previous advice, he either DID hear you and chooses to ignore your boundary.
Or he didn't hear you and no amount of talking begging or pleading is going to change him.
Either way not detaching is unlikely to bring you closer to your goal.


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: Treasur
Cadet: I think my reason for emailing is to clarify my boundary because I think he didn't hear me. I said no to talking now unless he made a significant gesture to show me some respect. But I also said the window for any talking stops when the divorce is final. His 'not my paradigm' comment stuck with me...I think he heard an endless open door and that isn't true. What would I need him to do? Pretty simple but I didn't spell that out either. Agree a generous £ settlement to stop the to/fro that he thinks is stopping us talking but I need to protect myself. Press the pause button on finalising the divorce for 6 months to give us a chance to talk. Talk to me f2f. So it's about being clear (boundaries are tough) and knowing that his listening/memory skills are pretty poor right now.

I will stick with my previous advice, he either DID hear you and chooses to ignore your boundary.
Or he didn't hear you and no amount of talking begging or pleading is going to change him.
Either way not detaching is unlikely to bring you closer to your goal.


Hello Treasur,

It sounds like your changes/boundaries have been noticed, just difficult to believe at this point. These changes need to be made for you. They need to be long lasting and sincere. Prove that to yourself and anyone else through your actions, not your words. There is no need to email him, right?

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004



Last edited by Cristy; 07/11/17 09:47 AM.

A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

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i hear you loud and clear!


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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You'll be pleased to know I saw my IC yesterday...who said the same thing...I hear you.

She asked me why I thought it was MLC. And why it mattered. I said it mattered because a) I felt like I wasn't crazy b) I wasn't imagining how very weird it is because other people experience this in RL even if not people I know and c) i didn't imagine the person I knew for 19 years.... Doesn't change the factual reality of what has happened and our almost-done D though.

But her question made me doubt myself, so does this sound like MLC stuff?
- Original H...loving, romantic, committed to me and really valued our marriage, funny, bit of a homebody, loved cooking, golf, his cats, reading, entertaining friends, sentimental, hated conflict, churchgoer, kind, gentleman, loved by small children and elderly ladies, involved in community, upright decent guy, cared what people thought of him (maybe a bit much), never Mr DIY but always a good partner. Cherished me and the kind of M that other people envied as being a really loving team.
- FOO...only child of older parents, but big extended family led by 6 aunts. Mother maybe BP, certainly narcissistic. Father functioning alcoholic. Brought up with lots of rules about being a 'good son' like a cutout really and family pattern is to do anything to avoid mother having a meltdown. (She once refused to speak to a friend for 2 years in an argument about salt...seriously...and his father refused to speak to him for 4 years because he didn't go to university..yup plenty of dysfunction to share there!) Sent away to school at 5, brought up by grandmother & great-aunt in holidays mostly. Survived a fire at 15 along with his favourite aunt in which his uncle and 17 year old cousin died. Mother, who liked him best as a sweet choir boy of about 7 and likes to be called Mummy(!), constantly claims that 'the fire ruined him' as a son and has told him she wishes he had died because then she would have 'kept' her perfect boy as he was...H deals with this by a) avoiding family gatherings as much as possible b)token phone calls to his mother every few weeks and c) not really talking to either parent about anything substantive

First odd things:-
1. Works for a bank and scandals in banking about 2012 made him very uncomfortable. Unhappy with his job and new boss, we'd just moved house. Started talking about setting up a business with friends as a football agent in 2013 (hates football)
2. Has rich client in his 60s getting remarried who invites him to stag weekend. Two weeks before going in Aug 2014, H casually mentions over lunch in restaurant that this means staying in biggest brothel in Europe before private jet to horse racing event. I choke on bacon and say brothel not ok with me...he turns it into argument that I should trust him and know who he is (and have never doubted his fidelity before to be fair). I say I do but don't trust client and it's like going to a supermarket and not buying a sandwich. Massive first argument of our M life, complete impasse, actually split up for a couple of days. He agrees not to go but resents being 'embarrassed' in front of client. Never seems to quite accept my view on it. We get into some quite deep conversations about 'being a man', unhappiness with work and some things we want to change about life/M before life unravels with long series of family illness and deaths. Although I don't know it, EA with co-worker starts here because he rings in distressed to say won't be in work because I'd thrown him out...she apparently very understanding because survived domestic abuse and has MH history...
3. Starts new high-profile job in London, living away during the week May 2015. Oct 2015, I know something off with him because he seems down and distant. assume work stress. Ask. Find about about EA texts etc which ended by her in Apr 2015 'because he wouldn't leave me...but she's just a good friend' (yup, nothing fishy there!). He goes AWOL for 24 hours then sends email to say M is over because I don't trust him...
4. Turns up, implodes in front of me, sounds like depressive breakdown, suicidal. Runs back to London, gets referred to psychiatrist and diagnosed with OCD/depression. First ILYBNILWY, says numb, no feelings about anything. Stops all hobbies, interests, cuts all friends off too. Unrecognisable, won't talk to me much, won't come home (living in aunt's London flat)
5 Comes home for Christmas, won't sleep with me, shell of himself. Says this doesn't feel like 'his' life, still suicidal, says he has no feelings about anything including me. Runs off again. I still think this is about depression so waiting until meds/treatment start working but very frightened for him. Nothing makes sense.
6. Refuses to communicate with me at all Jan-Apr 2016
7. Apr 2016 reappears wanting to 'work as a team again', still obviously unwell. Spend day together in May...ten days later a text saying 'divorce is the only option'...but refuses to talk about that either. Files in Jan 2017, still won't talk. Doesn't even respond to his own lawyer! Still seeing psychiatrist...crazy silence continues until recent sighting.
8. Other stuff...
- shows no interest or concern in me or anyone else, and continues to ignore all messages from friends etc for months
- very angry texts full of 'you have no right to pressure me' when I ask practical questions about house/furniture etc
- no concern either when I get anonymous death threats in July 2016 other than denying it's him or anyone he knows, and that he doesn't want his name on a police record...(same man who worried about me driving alone late at night for years...)
- turns up at house when I'm not there in Nov 16, leaves wedding ring on table, steals Cartier watch he bought me as 50th birthday gift. Ignores/refuses to speak about it or return it
- PA (different co-worker, likes selfies and Kim Kardashian) probably started Apr 16. He splits his time between London and her house about 5 miles away although I only recently found this out. None of previous hobbies or friends, tattoos, grows a beard, (fat with meds so NOT his best look!), trance dance events (hated clubs before), new hipster clothing when previously very traditional suits/country gent look, possibly cocaine, and complete workaholic.
- spending money like water (not sure on what as living in aunt and OWs house for free with no bills or domestic responsibilities!), but big cash withdrawals. Starts raiding joint account in Apr 2017 and says via lawyer 'I needed the money so I took it because it's my account...' Find out lots of credit card debt and has faked salary payments to joint a/c since July 2016 to hide salary increase and bonuses (an activity which could cost him his job if employer found out). Will not communicate about selling house, sick cat, my cancer surgery...endless list. Just stonewalling. Seems to see no obligation to me at all, as if he has erased me, old life and all old friends. Family know nothing and still sending me party invites to both of us!
- Reappears wanting to 'talk' out of the blue in June 2017. His great 'plan' is that we should chat every day but not about anything important while D stuff going on because it's too difficult to wear 'two hats'...and then talk properly after D finalised. Seems to think this is quite sensible and a bit shocked when I say not sure. Chases me by email/VMS until we talk and I say no thank you. Admits to PA, denies living with her, says it's 'not what I think' but refuses to discuss. When challenged that her FB is full of wedding dresses, admits to having had some general discussions but says nothing fixed, not making plans and 'resolving our issues' is most important thing...Refuses to 'accept my paradigm' that I won't talk to him (!) and says he understands he has to take responsibility to earn my trust...disappears back off to silence...

As I'm writing all of this, it strikes me how completely nutty it all is. No wonder I've been bewildered! (as well as all the other emotions and grieving for loss of my parents too - let's just give me a big hand for still being upright, yay!). To survive this madness, I had to accept it was as it was and do the best I could expecting nothing but more crazy from H. If it is MLC, my best guess on timings...brewing 2012-2014, beginning of replay late 2014 onwards, no idea where he's at now.

I am (finally since April) well enough to do GAL, detachment etc. D will be finalised in next couple of months if we can get him to be sane enough to agree financial settlement. If not, will have to go to court which could take 6-18 months...Have had to accept that beloved H is a)going through some kind of crisis which isn't about me or our M b) M not perfect but was pretty damn happy c) I am sort of invisible to him, shows no concern or even interest in me or any of his friends d) he seems to have a long playlist of WTF crazy stuff most of which is pretty self-destructive but nothing I can do but protect myself the best I can and e) whether I like it or not, old M is dead, D round the corner and old H has been replaced by an alien teenager...

Does this sound like MLC? Any guess on where he might be at in life cycle? Does recent odd 'touch n go' suggest any hope he's progressing? Or am I just crazy too?

Do


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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PS He is very secretive, even about silly things, so sure there is a lot of other stuff I don't know! If I step back, biggest flavour is...avoiding all responsibilities other than work, completely different values and interests, pompous, cold, self-centred, doesn't like being challenged about anything, no empathy or interest in anyone else, shows no remorse or responsibility, seems to feel like a victim as if 'a big boy did it and ran away', depressed, anxious, erased every bit of his old life including me.


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Originally Posted By: Treasur
Does this sound like MLC?

Yes
Originally Posted By: Treasur
Any guess on where he might be at in life cycle? Does recent odd 'touch n go' suggest any hope he's progressing?
REPLAY
Sure he is progressing but this is a marathon not a sprint
MLC takes a VERY VERY VERY LONGGGGGGGGGG TIME.
Originally Posted By: Treasur
Or am I just crazy too?

Sure all LBS's are crazy but not in the way you think.
We all have issues and accept things we should not accept.
Time to re-learn everything we know.
Read the books and start with a beginners mind.


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Fair point...the advantage of seeing someone SO clearly the exact opposite (once you get past the complete bewilderment) is that as much as you miss the person you knew, this is a very different person! Being objective, it looks as if the 5% dark bits of of my STBXH's character are now running the show.

Checked out this link http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869&page=1 and would score my STBXH at 23/30!!

Been a hard road to get here but I guess I've had to reluctantly accept that my M is dead, my H is unavailable and no longer loves or cares about me at all. Might hate me actually. Nothing I can do about it but refuse to believe his version of our pretty happy M or of me. I probably was trying to Stand, but I see no positive signs at all of him breaking through after almost 2 years of chaos, so I need to let it/him go to have a non-WTF life. No idea what will happen to him and to be honest, assume I'll never see or speak to him again so I won't know.

All I can do is detach from the chaos, accept I'm being divorced and GAL for myself. I miss him, and I miss having hope for him but I don't anymore. I suppose I think he'll just keep running for years and won't be quite brave enough to stop and deal with the damage in a healthy way. Sad. I know he's not happy really and I know it's been painful for him, but I also know only he can fight his way out. Thank goodness my natural self-esteem, even battered as I have been, stopped me beating myself up about it or thinking I could 'fix' him! But it is sad, because as a natural optimist, in the early days (when I didn't know it might be MLC), I hoped that something strong and beautiful would come out of something dark and ugly.

Loving detachment and throwing it over the wall to God while focusing on what next for me without my beloved is the only thing that makes sense...and enjoying being 4st lighter courtesy of the LBS diet, of course! It's ironic that I look better than I have for years and he looked dreadful when I saw him briefly a few months ago..

So, hopeless and helpless against MLC, but not for myself of my life


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Ooh, and I've learned to LOVE calm boundaries...


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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Sorry...stray thought...why do you think he's popped up wanting to suddenly chat on the phone?

I didn't spend much time thinking about why, but said no thank you based on what felt healthy and non-WTF to me really. I'd already gone quite a long way towards detachment, well logically if not emotionally as much.

Last edited by Cadet; 07/12/17 11:42 PM. Reason: edit as per next post

Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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sorry - felt not fight...although maybe subconsciously I meant fighting for my M!!!


Me: 53 H:38
T:20 M:14
BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression
S 1/16
PA 4/16
H filed 1/17

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