Not a newcomer to crazy land but only recently been reading stuff here and realised that if it quacks like an MLC duck...
Quick summary. Much loved, much younger H. Very happy, but always knew H had a few unpolished dents from own family and surviving a fire at 15 where 2 other family members died.
Then life got really hard...H and me had first big marital bust-up ever over something very weird in Aug 14. (Unbeknownst to me, that was when he started talking to co-worker.) We talked, repaired a bit...then 33 days later, people started dying. Lost friends, cat, his grandmother and then my father to pancreatic cancer in June 2015. Both of us a bit numb, H unhappy with job & gets new one in May 2015. Means him being away from home but we discuss & agree to try it. H living in aunt's flat during week, home weekends. I notice he's not 'himself', ask - H falls apart, BD. EA which he denies was PA (probably believe him but EA ended he said because she wouldn't be his 'friend' unless he left me!). H diagnosed with OCD/depression in Nov 2015 & starts seeing psychiatrist. Refuses to come home but talking a bit.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the street, my mother disappears quickly into vascular dementia Nov 2015. Doesn't know who I am by Jan 2016. In care home by March 2016 but no power of attorney so have to apply to court to deal with her affairs in April 2016.
H stops communicating completely after coming home for Christmas until April 2016. Then wants to meet and try to 'work together as a team'. Still obviously ill - you know the routine, shark eyes, blank face, texts like a teenager. Week after spending day together in May 2016, says wants D by text. No reason given & won't talk at all. I say not what I want, but can't stop him so let's deal with practicalities calmly. Nope, he won't communicate about money, house etc either. (H has continued to work through this time, relatively high pressured job in financial services. I run my own - limping - business still.) First clue that PA was when I received anonymous death threats by email in July 2016. H unconcerned. Denies PA/EA until Aug 2016 when admits to 'seeing someone for a couple of months'.
I decide to put house on market in Dec 2016, but then tell him delayed because need surgery for cancer...no reply. Get D papers through door on Jan 6th 2017. H still won't communicate directly, even with his own lawyer. Still seeing psychiatrist & now says D making him too ill to deal with D...
I move out April 2017 to rent little house by the sea for own sanity...June 2016 H finally produces some D paperwork which shows some pretty shocking stuff including PA, huge debt, fraud and secret part-time life with PA a few miles from our old house from about July 2016. And stole the watch he bought for my 50th and refuses to return it. Same one he cried over when he gave me 'because he wanted me to know everyday how special I was'. Go figure...And PA's FB page is full of wedding dresses. And now I know her name I realise she kept popping up on my LinkedIn for the last year or so. Finally hit my WTF wall...my lawyer wants to refer D to court to protect me as H's behaviour makes all the sensible low cost options impossible. I'm just about to say yes to that when...WTF...H pops up from undergrowth wanting to talk (unseen since Oct 16 and unheard of since Feb 2017 by email).
We talk for 5 mins before I go to visit friends in Florida for a week. H has no idea what he wants to talk about or why, just thinks 'talking would be good'. By time I get back, H has decided a) we can't talk about anything substantive as he'd finding D so difficult b) but thinks we should now 'chat' every other day on the phone and c) when 'this is all done', we can talk 'properly' as he knows he 'left me in a bit of a vacuum'.
I could feel something had shifted but told him no thank you. That I couldn't talk to people who lie to me, steal from me and treat me with no respect. H says understands that he needs to 'earn my trust' and 'wants to salvage something kind from this horrible mess'. We agree it's a horrible mess and I point out that it is his horrible mess not mine, and I'm leaving him to it. I say we can communicate about practicalities by email. That this has never made sense to me and I expect we won't talk again. H says "I refuse to accept that paradigm...' and makes noises suggesting that 'things aren't as I think they are...not physically anywhere near where I think (PA's house)'. Blah, blah, blah. You've all been here...you know the WTF script right? And that pompous tone of voice? And the me-me, lets's feel sorry for me thing?
I'm summarising 2+ years of hell here, of course. I love my H very much. That has never changed. Lots of other emotions too...shock, bewilderment, grief, pain, anger, frustration. Still shocked sometimes by all of it and the endless supply of new WTF chaos and mad Catch 22s. Losing my father, husband and mother within 4 months nearly killed me, tbh. It broke me into immeasurably small pieces and I was suicidal twice. Did all the things you did. Same mistakes. Turned myself inside out trying to figure out how my life became this and why my H turned into an alien.
What brought me here? Three things. 1. I always felt that the OCD/depression diagnosis was a symptom not a cause after the first few months. Partly because H is just as he should be after more than 18 months of psychiatrist, CBT and industrial quantities of drugs. Partly because H's behaviour was getting more WTF not better. Mostly because my gut said it was some kind of identity crisis and he'd turned into a sort of anti-H opposite of himself, and I've learned to trust my gut. 2. I came here a week or so ago, and was reading story after story that felt like my life and like my H. 3. I've just read Shining's story and it felt like where I am trying to be, or get to.
I love my DH - did I say that? - and I wanted to believe he would reemerge from the fog. But as the WTF stuff piled up, I started to force myself into looking at what I didn't want to. Little building blocks of acceptance. The two biggest ones were realising that more after 18 months, none of this made sense and it wasn't getting better and staying here was literally killing me. So I started to accept what it is, to accept that my M was dead and that my H was lost somewhere dark. To stop hoping for H or my M in order to start finding hope for me. To find the difference between surviving and living because I was tired of just surviving. The second was choosing a couple of days ago to detach enough to say no thank you to his 'chatting' plan because I could see how crazy it was and how it wasn't going to help me. I don't doubt it was the right choice for me but it was a hard and sad one to make.
I guess the help I'm looking for now is to fight my way towards emotionally detaching, not just logically detaching if that makes sense. I need to build a new life. I need to be brave enough to stop secretly hoping for a miracle. I need to stop H being the first thing I think of when I wake up or talking to him in my head. And I need to do that a few weeks away from our D being final, while he is behaving like an idiot and a selfish child in the D process and while he is probably going to keep trying to pop back up on my radar.
I don't want to but I know I have to, if that makes sense. I need to feel like me again instead of the battered version. I want a life without lies and WTF and destruction and confusion and H seems to like living there, so he has to go. I don't regret a moment of our relationship, imperfect as all of them are, and I hate this inconceivable mess. But hating it doesn't change it. Maybe I want to detach too because I want to protect the things I treasured in our M and in my H before he finishes destroying my memories too.
Sorry this is so long.
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I guess the help I'm looking for now is to fight my way towards emotionally detaching, not just logically detaching if that makes sense. I need to build a new life. I need to be brave enough to stop secretly hoping for a miracle. I need to stop H being the first thing I think of when I wake up or talking to him in my head. And I need to do that a few weeks away from our D being final, while he is behaving like an idiot and a selfish child in the D process and while he is probably going to keep trying to pop back up on my radar.
I don't want to but I know I have to, if that makes sense. I need to feel like me again instead of the battered version. I want a life without lies and WTF and destruction and confusion and H seems to like living there, so he has to go. I don't regret a moment of our relationship, imperfect as all of them are, and I hate this inconceivable mess. But hating it doesn't change it. Maybe I want to detach too because I want to protect the things I treasured in our M and in my H before he finishes destroying my memories too.
Sorry this is so long.
Hello Treasur,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I went ahead and moved you to Newcomers so that more people will see your post and be able to offer support.
You are so smart to recognize the importance of truly detaching.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
A few days ago, I told H no to 'chatting' because I can't talk to people who don't treat me with respect, it's an issue of trust. I was gentle and calm in my language. I also said that when divorce is final, that's it, NC at all. A couple of practical emails are necessary about our house sale. I sent one and he replied promptly (first time in months). Boundary of my sanity - after months of silence, who starts chatting a few weeks away from their divorce being final?
I don't think he quite got it. I said no but I think he heard 'do something to earn my trust'. In H's head, it is difficult to talk now because we're dealing with financial disagreements (because he has lied and stolen joint money), so it will be easier to talk 'properly' AFTER we're divorced...
I know I'm not there with detachment...logical head says do nothing, you said no, you can say no again. M is dead. H still loopy. D is inevitable and you need it to protect yourself financially. H is going to Paris on Sat to see his parents and another bit of me wants to tell him what he needs to do to earn that trust (begin to) while he's in a place for a week that was 'our' place...this is madness right? More old style fixing by me? Even though I know his memory is shot and he's not currently the quickest/smartest tool in the toolbox? (although undoubtedly a tool!) I think it means I'm not really detached either...that a bit of me still wants a miracle...
Should I email him next week to be sure I am clear about my boundary and what he needs to do if he wants to honour it? Or should I detach completely and do nothing at all?
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Wow! Well first let me say that I am very sorry you're going through this! He sounds like a full blown MLCer which is miles worse than dealing with a WAS. It sounds like you are already very familiar with the DBing basics and have been practicing DBing. I think you are doing quite well other than the emotional ties you still have to H. Unfortunately that just takes time to get over. The best suggestion I have for you is to really try to GAL, especially in trying out activities that help you meet other people. You didn't mention GAL, is that something you've been actively doing?
Also I wanted to ask about the D paperwork:
Originally Posted By: Treasur
June 2016 H finally produces some D paperwork which shows some pretty shocking stuff including PA, huge debt, fraud and secret part-time life with PA a few miles from our old house from about July 2016.
He listed fraud in the paperwork? And the debt, is he trying to saddle you with part of the debt he has incurred?
Quote:
I could feel something had shifted but told him no thank you. That I couldn't talk to people who lie to me, steal from me and treat me with no respect. H says understands that he needs to 'earn my trust' and 'wants to salvage something kind from this horrible mess'. We agree it's a horrible mess and I point out that it is his horrible mess not mine, and I'm leaving him to it. I say we can communicate about practicalities by email.
Yes, you handled that really well! I agree that it sounds like you can't trust him and even cracking open the door is just opening yourself up to more emotional abuse from him.
Quote:
I love my DH - did I say that? - and I wanted to believe he would reemerge from the fog. But as the WTF stuff piled up, I started to force myself into looking at what I didn't want to. Little building blocks of acceptance. The two biggest ones were realising that more after 18 months, none of this made sense and it wasn't getting better and staying here was literally killing me.
I am not an MLC expert, but from what I've read you're looking at a long, long recovery time. 18 months is probably not even halfway to clearing the fog. I think you're taking the right approach in trying to distance yourself from him and his mess and pull your life together. He will probably emerge from the fog some day and may be ready to recon, but it's probably going to be a while yet. There is nothing wrong with continuing to love him, you have a lot of heart and spirit to hold onto that in the face of this kind of treatment!
Quote:
I don't want to but I know I have to, if that makes sense. I need to feel like me again instead of the battered version. I want a life without lies and WTF and destruction and confusion and H seems to like living there, so he has to go.
Be patient with yourself, it takes time. It sounds like you are on the right track, but don't expect to get well right away! Are you seeing an IC? If not I think it would help. Good luck!
Took me ages to really see it was classic MLC. I'm not crazy to think it looks like MLC right? To be fair to me, he had been diagnosed with MH stuff. And I was frozen in grief really over the loss of all three of them at the same time. I think my brain just stopped.
Cadet: I think my reason for emailing is to clarify my boundary because I think he didn't hear me. I said no to talking now unless he made a significant gesture to show me some respect. But I also said the window for any talking stops when the divorce is final. His 'not my paradigm' comment stuck with me...I think he heard an endless open door and that isn't true. What would I need him to do? Pretty simple but I didn't spell that out either. Agree a generous £ settlement to stop the to/fro that he thinks is stopping us talking but I need to protect myself. Press the pause button on finalising the divorce for 6 months to give us a chance to talk. Talk to me f2f. So it's about being clear (boundaries are tough) and knowing that his listening/memory skills are pretty poor right now.
AnotherStander: GAL is what I've been dragging myself into since April...doing better but not great tbh. Better with social stuff, struggling with work direction. The financial stuff? No, don't think he is consciously trying to stiff me with debt but his finances are a mess and some strange stuff in there. Tbh, I don't think he considers the impact on me at all or on him. Which is one of the things I think kicked him out of the undergrowth actually...I think having to pull the £ stuff together forced him to look at realities he's been avoiding about his own actions and it hurt him to see it possibly.
Timelines? My best guess is that he started brewing quietly in early 2013...replay maybe a bit before BD so late 2014. All logic (and reading here) suggests that I need to get off this ride because I reckon it's got years in it and I can't do it. What threw me was his sudden reappearance with 'let's chat'...and how it triggers that little bit of hope/doubt just as you've started letting go. I am seeing an IC, as well as my obsessive chanting of the Serenity prayer, and frequent chats with God (when i often suggest that whilst I'm sure he has a cunning plan, it looks chit from here!)
I know I'm more detached than I was. I know I'm focusing on me and what next more, even than a month ago. I suppose I'm frightened that detaching is really because I've given up hope that the person I love will ever be seen again. And maybe I'm frightened that I'll stop loving him and that will trash all my memories of 20 years too, if that makes sense? It feels like more of an emotional struggle than a practical one really
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
