I havent read everything admittedly. But to me, it seems kind of rude to just show up unannounced. I feel like instead it would be better to let her know that date and time you will be doing xx or yy and give her the option to join you or not.
If you kept reading further you would also see that a little later after that she invited me to come see her for the weekend all on her own and it was after I said those things to her.
I've read all of your posts, but I don't remember anything about her inviting you to visit. The closest to that was a comment you made that you were going to make a trip there on business and you were wondering if you should go see her, and ironically you made this comment:
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I want her to want to see me, rather than me forcing myself on her so to speak
That's kind of what you're doing now though- forcing yourself on her. But regardless, and I ask this in all seriousness, where do you see things going if you two do recon? I really don't see her ever moving back with you, she went through depression and anxiety and you were traveling all the time so not there to support her as much as she needed. She moved home to be with her support network, which is clearly extremely important to her. If you truly love and respect her you will not take her away from that lifeline, so are you going to offer to move to her home if you two reconnect? Because even if you do convince her to move back to Cali, do you not see this same scenario playing out all over again?
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I know my wife well and there are some things that she needs to see from me. One major thing is she needs to see that I put her first. Of course, most of you think that me going there is not about her being first, but me.
Everything you've said makes it sound like you're hoping for some kind of direction from her, you feel like you're in limbo which you've expressed many times that you hate, and you want to do -something- even if it's D (which you've also mentioned several times). Here's the thing- I think she WANTS limbo. She's still trying to sort out what she wants. She is probably missing you, but at the same time she doesn't want to go back to that life. She's unsure how to proceed, so she's stuck in limbo too.
You've already planned the trip, so go and see what happens. I honestly don't think anything will change one way or the other until she decides what she wants. But like 25 said, maybe you can plant some seeds if you can show her someone who genuinely LISTENS, VALIDATES and CARES about her. I get the impression from your posts here that you are a talker, and I don't mean that in a negative way, I'm one too. I'm an extrovert and you probably are as well. People like us have a VERY tough time listening, because we just want to interject our thoughts into the convo. We can barely wait until they're done so we can say something. But take it from me, the best thing you can do is shut up and listen. Read the validation thread and sear that into your mind before you go see her. LIVE THAT. Those are the seeds you want to plant- you are a sensitive guy concerned about her feelings, wants and needs. Good luck!
I havent read everything admittedly. But to me, it seems kind of rude to just show up unannounced. I feel like instead it would be better to let her know that date and time you will be doing xx or yy and give her the option to join you or not.
Just my 2 cents.
Have a good trip.
I hear you and I am trying to figure the best way to go about it because I agree, but I also see her getting an ear full from a bunch of people who don't support marriage if she knows to soon ahead of time. I feel letting her know before with some time to prep is good and I wasn't planning on just walking up and knocking on the door.....although I would rather do it that way. Haha! I think looking for something to do together while I'm there is a good plan and to get a bite to eat too would be nice. One day is all I really want, but if I get more then that's cool too. If I get none at all then that will say a lot and I will have a direction to go in. She threatened with divorce papers on the way and I got nothing for a whole month. She has tried to get me to play her game for awhile now and I have yet to do it and I'm not about to start now either.
If you kept reading further you would also see that a little later after that she invited me to come see her for the weekend all on her own and it was after I said those things to her.
I've read all of your posts, but I don't remember anything about her inviting you to visit. The closest to that was a comment you made that you were going to make a trip there on business and you were wondering if you should go see her, and ironically you made this comment:
Well it should be in there. I talked about getting a rental car to drive up to see her after she asked me to come. Things started falling apart at work and it pushed me further and further down the time line to get there in time to watch a movie we planned to go to ect ect.... I'll have to go back and look, but if I didn't type it here it is what happened. I have talked about this so much that I could be confusing it with typing it here.
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I want her to want to see me, rather than me forcing myself on her so to speak
That's kind of what you're doing now though- forcing yourself on her. But regardless, and I ask this in all seriousness, where do you see things going if you two do recon? I really don't see her ever moving back with you, she went through depression and anxiety and you were traveling all the time so not there to support her as much as she needed. She moved home to be with her support network, which is clearly extremely important to her. If you truly love and respect her you will not take her away from that lifeline, so are you going to offer to move to her home if you two reconnect? Because even if you do convince her to move back to Cali, do you not see this same scenario playing out all over again?
I'm not thinking that far ahead and looking at things and talking more and more about it I don't believe and either everyone I talk to about it believes that being in California or away from her so called support system (which its not much of one, other than financial) is the real problem. The underlying problem is I didn't love her in the way she needed to be loved and make her feel like she is my priority. I have asked her directly and others have too about being in Cali and her answers are always wish-washy.
Quote:
I know my wife well and there are some things that she needs to see from me. One major thing is she needs to see that I put her first. Of course, most of you think that me going there is not about her being first, but me.
Everything you've said makes it sound like you're hoping for some kind of direction from her, you feel like you're in limbo which you've expressed many times that you hate, and you want to do -something- even if it's D (which you've also mentioned several times). Here's the thing- I think she WANTS limbo. She's still trying to sort out what she wants. She is probably missing you, but at the same time she doesn't want to go back to that life. She's unsure how to proceed, so she's stuck in limbo too.
She is still not sure of what she wants that is clear, so I agree she is in some limbo, but we are in this together. I have as much say as she does if I want a divorce too. Just like others I have seen on here where they trade places and now the one that wanted out wants back in, but now the shoes is on the other foot. I think she is afraid to do it and finalize the divorce because she doesn't want to make a mistake, yet she is not willing to try to make it work. This is crazy in my mind. If you truly love me then we work on it, but if you don't then that's your answer.
The idea that she is trying to sort out what she wants is funny to me since we are in a marriage and in this together and decisions should be made together or at the very least discussed together. I understand she doesn't want to go back to the previous relationship and in all honesty either do I. She was perfect in the least and often times just depressing and I this wasn't just because she got depressed either. She has issues she needs to work out there is no doubt and it is the one thing she is ignoring. I am making positive changes, but she isn't which I really don't get either. She has expressed to me many times how messed up she is and if I could help her. I tried to do it in the way I thought was right, but as I know now it wasn't.
You've already planned the trip, so go and see what happens. I honestly don't think anything will change one way or the other until she decides what she wants. But like 25 said, maybe you can plant some seeds if you can show her someone who genuinely LISTENS, VALIDATES and CARES about her. I get the impression from your posts here that you are a talker, and I don't mean that in a negative way, I'm one too. I'm an extrovert and you probably are as well. People like us have a VERY tough time listening, because we just want to interject our thoughts into the convo. We can barely wait until they're done so we can say something. But take it from me, the best thing you can do is shut up and listen. Read the validation thread and sear that into your mind before you go see her. LIVE THAT. Those are the seeds you want to plant- you are a sensitive guy concerned about her feelings, wants and needs. Good luck!
Yes my trip is bought and paid for and I am definitely going. I will enjoy myself no matter what she does because I will be among friends. I think this will plant a seed that I made the effort to come see her and believe me when she doesn't think I would do this, so it is very out of my character and should show her that I thought of her. I know my personality well and have done a professional personalty profile before, so I am well aware of how to listen. The issue is getting her to talk. She always wants me to talk, but after awhile once I get her going then I can actually listen to her, but it takes some time. I have been very validating when I talk to her just like everyone else is, so I do have that in mind, but thanks for the reminder.
So how about these apples. I literally just got the Divorce papers an hour ago the night before I fly I out to see her! Crazy coincidence, fate, a test from a greater power or a sign. People always interpret it differently.
So how about these apples. I literally just got the Divorce papers an hour ago the night before I fly I out to see her! Crazy coincidence, fate, a test from a greater power or a sign. People always interpret it differently.
well, it isn't good news and it hurts. So I will say upfront, it $ucks and I'm really sorry.
As for the trip, it's not like it'll hurt you to go out there and hang with your friend and maybe see if you can 'part ways" in person or say good bye or get closure face to face.
She may be really uncomfortable (or even fearful) but you can tell her you are out there with your buddy anyhow, as you wanted to talk at least once, face to face before ending a marriage. (Be prepared for someone in her family to oppose you two meeting due to concerns about violence NOT b/c you are a nut, but b/c of the situation. The day after Div papers a guy flies out, it's concerning). So your back up plan could be to have someone at another table and you guys talk at lunch eye to eye.
And yes you got the papers but you are not there to argue or to QUESTION her decision so much as to make sure she sees you telling her how you feel (as the written word and b/c you wanted to see her b/c she's so important to you. "The love of your life" etc.
At least act as if you accept it. Act as if you are resigned to it in a way that shows you feel sorry her and you b/c you know it's a mistake, but you accept it graciously stepping aside for her new life.
Before I read the latest post of yours (getting the D papers) I wanted to ask you this and I still will ask.
What is with the anti marriage people she knows, whom you mention often but deny worrying about?
Are you dancing around something like how a lot of her friends do not support the marriage to you, or marriage in general, or both?
And why would that be? Have any of them made comments you are sure of, or is it just a feeling?
Cali, you have nothing to lose by digging deep on that question.
From what you have said, it sounds like more than half of her folks and friends are not okay with her being married to you? I do not believe that is because she moved away, unless they believe the move was bad for her.
IN CASE SHE says you never put her first, at least say you wish you had moved back there from the start OR anything else that would have revealed her importance to you, earlier.
Ask her what her being first, would look like. Get as many specifics from her so you "can know what your mistakes were and you won't repeat them in your next R" this^^ will show willingness to shift in a crucial way that I, 25, stubbornly believe was THE main underlying issue, though you make vague allusions to how you did not treat her as if she was important enough, when you were there. I'm just not sure what that means.
I realize that's water under the bridge but man, if that comes up, you cannot argue with her about how she "doesn't really have a supportive system there"
b/c guess what? She says she does. So, she does.
Even if she also says she's only staying in her parents house reading or moping,
I have a feeling she thinks that makes you feel better (she's not out whooping it up) so I don't know if it's true.
But I also don't know if it is relevant to her decision at the moment. She will be divorced and then may feel able to make other choices unencumbered.
What matters now is that you keep your head while still sharing your feelings, and no one will judge you for feeling hurt at this point. It's not like you have pouted in front of her for years, whining. You're allowed to say it hurts and disappoints, but that you will be alright and you wish her well.
So, what are your 2 goals for this trip, now that you have no fear of her filing b/c she already has?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
So how about these apples. I literally just got the Divorce papers an hour ago the night before I fly I out to see her! Crazy coincidence, fate, a test from a greater power or a sign. People always interpret it differently.
well, it isn't good news and it hurts. So I will say upfront, it $ucks and I'm really sorry.
As for the trip, it's not like it'll hurt you to go out there and hang with your friend and maybe see if you can 'part ways" in person or say good bye or get closure face to face.
Yes and this is a big reason I had been wanting to go for a long time now, but we will see how things go. She was just texting me today and didn't mention a thing about divorce papers.
She may be really uncomfortable (or even fearful) but you can tell her you are out there with your buddy anyhow, as you wanted to talk at least once, face to face before ending a marriage. (Be prepared for someone in her family to oppose you two meeting due to concerns about violence NOT b/c you are a nut, but b/c of the situation. The day after Div papers a guy flies out, it's concerning). So your back up plan could be to have someone at another table and you guys talk at lunch eye to eye.
This would be absolutely crazy if anyone of them think that! She will have to know that I made the plans to come see her before I got the papers. I had to sign for them so she should know that I got them and I made the flights before it came obviously.
And yes you got the papers but you are not there to argue or to QUESTION her decision so much as to make sure she sees you telling her how you feel (as the written word and b/c you wanted to see her b/c she's so important to you. "The love of your life" etc.
I have never wanted to argue with her and have done very little of that during this whole process. The one thing I will have to stop myself from doing is telling her about her faults too. Although, I feel she needs to hear some of the things I had to deal with her because it isn't all my fault. It always takes two. I will tell her the same things I have before, but she will probably say they are exactly just that, I'm just repeating it again. She said she can't trust that I will change and or I will only change for a little while.
At least act as if you accept it. Act as if you are resigned to it in a way that shows you feel sorry her and you b/c you know it's a mistake, but you accept it graciously stepping aside for her new life.
I do feel it is a mistake and it will be one that she will regret sooner or later. She will need to work on her own issues too so she won't repeat it in her next relationship.
Before I read the latest post of yours (getting the D papers) I wanted to ask you this and I still will ask.
What is with the anti marriage people she knows, whom you mention often but deny worrying about?
Are you dancing around something like how a lot of her friends do not support the marriage to you, or marriage in general, or both?
It's both. It's things that she has said and what she has told to my sister and my mother. I am white and she is black and there is definitely a race issue with her friends too. Her brother has made the comment that why she couldn't be with a white guys who was like this..... Basically a white guys has adopted the black culture completely. My father in-law also said that if anyone in the family has an issue with me, because of my color then they have an issue with him. That says a lot right there. A lot of her friends also on things like FaceBook post some pretty racist stuff too as her bother has too.
And why would that be? Have any of them made comments you are sure of, or is it just a feeling?
Other then the things I mentioned it's a feeling everyone here has too.
Cali, you have nothing to lose by digging deep on that question.
From what you have said, it sounds like more than half of her folks and friends are not okay with her being married to you? I do not believe that is because she moved away, unless they believe the move was bad for her.
IN CASE SHE says you never put her first, at least say you wish you had moved back there from the start OR anything else that would have revealed her importance to you, earlier.
This is a good point and I will be sure to make it. Thanks.
Ask her what her being first, would look like. Get as many specifics from her so you "can know what your mistakes were and you won't repeat them in your next R" this^^ will show willingness to shift in a crucial way that I, 25, stubbornly believe was THE main underlying issue, though you make vague allusions to how you did not treat her as if she was important enough, when you were there. I'm just not sure what that means.
More great points here.
I realize that's water under the bridge but man, if that comes up, you cannot argue with her about how she "doesn't really have a supportive system there"
b/c guess what? She says she does. So, she does.
Even if she also says she's only staying in her parents house reading or moping,
I have a feeling she thinks that makes you feel better (she's not out whooping it up) so I don't know if it's true.
I actually believe her. It's a gut feeling for me mainly and because I know my wife. She is an Introvert and did things like this when she lived here too.
But I also don't know if it is relevant to her decision at the moment. She will be divorced and then may feel able to make other choices unencumbered.
Well I am sure she has interested guys in her for sure. Yeah, but who knows what is really going through her mind.
What matters now is that you keep your head while still sharing your feelings, and no one will judge you for feeling hurt at this point. It's not like you have pouted in front of her for years, whining. You're allowed to say it hurts and disappoints, but that you will be alright and you wish her well.
I don't think she cares about how I will be. She completely abandoned for Virginia and never even tried to work it out. She figures I will be just fine and like I said she doesn't care, for one she is still very angry with me and resentful.
So, what are your 2 goals for this trip, now that you have no fear of her filing b/c she already has?
I want to see her face to face and tell her how I feel about everything. The problem with this is she feels we are just repeating the same thing over and over again. She seems pretty such off to me it seem in this regard. She isn't really listening to me or doesn't want to listen to me. I also think after this the only thing I have left to do is the last resort technique, but I'm not really sure how this will work for me in or situation and after the divorce papers have now come. I think that's what she will really want is for me to just go away and not talk to her again, basically dead to her.
Do NOT tell her her faults. What on earth can that accomplish?
She knows her part and what she has contributed OR she will.
And IF that never happens for real, like if she'd never look within or ever care about her own role, then you'll be wasting time telling her anyhow, and it will NOT help you be remembered in a good light. You telling her the faults you see in her, now right after getting the papers is the LAST thing you should do now. It'll look petulant.
As you know, I own part but not the bulk of my marital demise. I filed for D but felt I had to.
A few of h's behaviors are indisputably over the line deal breakers, yet HE blames me. I know some will say "oh that's guilt" but I'm not sure. POINT BEING, if he were to meet me somewhere and want to talk about our m, the only thing I'd be there to hear, is his apology and maybe some insights he has worked on that matter to ME.
Now, if he wants to tell me calmly, how I hurt him, and maybe how that might have affected his choices, I would listen but that's different. That is him talking about his pain.
You can tell her this ordeal is a painful but productive learning experience and you are moving forward finding peace from it in some ways (not the way you'd LIKE to learn peace, etc) and Point is, please, do NOT tell her what is the matter with her. I'm convinced that is a problem in the marriage and it's not what you want her to recall in this last chat.
Own your stuff and trust that in time, she will own her own. IN fact, your growth & changes are the most likely motivator for her to look within & change
Naming her flaws is not a husband's job. I think that's really a teaching point for you that I'm not sure you believe. (Gosh please see an IC b/c you are going thru a lot and seem very cerebral about it. This is a problem you have glossed over when you write here and then resist the advice b/c you think we don't get your points, but maybe you are missing ours.)
I am not sure if you have said "I feel - and then named an emotion.
Have you? do you admit when you feel Fear of rejection or hurt, lonely, etc?
OR do you say "I feel...(insert opinion/thought/ belief, which are not emotions!)...
When you own your stuff, please, please take the advice I've given you 3-4 times now.
Name a few specific behaviors you regret & would change, so she can imagine that life with you would be better and different. Like you get it. Paint the picture for her.
As for the divorce papers, you can tell her that it's only a piece of paper, but you'll be moving on, keeping in touch and wishing her the best...
you have places to go, people to see, things to do, 'good luck with your life, give my best to your parents"
ETC
No complaints, no whining, just all strength and honor so NO REGRETS LATER on your end
you can always complain at her, later...but you cannot recreate a chance to just lay your heart open from a place of vulnerable, strength.
You can still plant the seeds. Leave her with an image of a man only a fool would leave.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The one thing I will have to stop myself from doing is telling her about her faults too. Although, I feel she needs to hear some of the things I had to deal with her because it isn't all my fault. It always takes two. so what? Are you crossing the country to tell your wife, the love of your life, how it's not all your fault? Only time will show her this.
if you say it, she will delay learning it or maybe even block it out b/c you hurt her and in her mind, the rejection she felt for so long is not making her ripe for your feedback about her flaws.
You are really missing a chunk of what your mission is now...you're not there to make things even, you're not there to bring her down a notch to be on a level playing field I will tell her the same things I have before, Why?? These things kept you guys apart, and now she's filed for divorce, so doing the exact same negative things again, expecting different results is a pattern of yours, so please -no no no but she will probably say they are exactly just that, I'm just repeating it again. She said she can't trust that I will change and or I will only change for a little while.
Wow, she is being so clear with you. And yet you think it's important to (your ego) tell her what you think her problems are?
Come on Cali, you know better in your heart and your head. It's pride that is driving you and you're hurt b/c she filed.
The biggest motivator to get your wife to miss you, is to show your attributes, not your critical nature or judgement.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
