WAS OR WHAT 10

[roist]

I recently read Michelle's book on SSM. I was initially not overwhelmed by it, but I did like how her thinking was very coherent and similar to DR. I think I didn't like how the book targeted everyone (men, women, high sex drive and low sex drive) but to cover the topic properly that is actually necessary.

Here are some key points I took away from the book. Again I emphasize that within the book they are expanded upon and put in context. Again this list is for me to refer to later.

The book emphasises the connection between emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy. Some things to do to improve connection include:
# put W first. She has to feel important and appreciated
# spend time together
# take share of household workload off W
# speak your mind, be clear.Share feelings/vulnerability.
# ask "do you want the kids to grow up not seeing any affection in a couple, don't you think it would be better for them to have a better tole model?" Whereas I agree totally with the sentiment I am not sure I like this question as it is.
# rather than criticise, talk about how you are feeling
# show empathy
# think about where you are stuck and next time, do something different
# if all else fails be brutally honest. Spell out what you have been thinking about. Say it is not a threat but you don't know what else to to. Ask partner to help solve this........ then wait and see.

Michelle outlines a lot about communication which is orth reading.

!
A lot of her approach involves direct communication with spouse, which most WAS aren't receptive to. I have tried a lot of indirect stuff the last two years and think that now I need to cross off some more direct approaches from my list. I am realistic about what I think may or may not work for me, but I don't want to assume this. Time to experiment!!

With direct approaches many seemed too textbooky and I wasn't comfortable just saying something textbooky. I am now going to adapt some approaches so they sound like me speaking not just learned. This weekend I asked my W ( who is starting two month summer break with our boys at home):" is there anything I could do that would help her pass a better summer?" The reply was reserved but essentially she is a big girl and can ask if there is. I have asked a similar question before and the reply was "not that she could think of". The next day something went wrong with the kids and she spurted out that if I wanted to do something I could ............ I took note even if it was reactive instead of the ideal proactive.

Both times my W has not taken the opportunity to open up or list stuff. Maybe that will come in time or with consistent asking.BBut it did not kill me to ask either.

[Gordie]

Great job at trying to continue to improve things and trying new things. In general, I agree with the emotional and sexual connection. The part I struggle with is initiating and not initiating as I think my w is one of those MWD describes as sometimes not being in the mood until she is actually doing it.

[HaWho]

Checking in to see how you are? Good job on emperors ting with different approaches.

[roist]

Thanks HaWho, I appreciate you checking in on me. Thanks

I am hectic at the moment especially at work. I am not making time to come here often at the moment. I have two more heavy weeks of work before taking two weeks away with the family. I have mixed feelings about family holidays.TThey generally pass OK with fun moments, but it is hard to ignore the missing aspects when together 24/7.

Over time my W has demonstrated again and again her emphasis on being a family. The latest is she wants to set up a family email address for us and our sons to all have access to and she wanted our wedding date to be the password as that was when we became a family. I am all for us being a family but I don't believe it is truly possible without being a couple too/first.II have been close to saying that to her and may do so on a future occasion

5here are loads of other examples of this.

Another funny thing (well not really funny!! ) is she criticizes her parents R and how they interact but is following their path. I have changed my negative interactions which formed half of this dynamic. I am grateful to be able to see this kind of stuff, though the years of blindly taking my R for granted (no I would even say when I didn't care less about it during my depression) will not be easy to overturn.

HaWho, job recently told you that your h is comfortably stuck and may need a prod to become "unstuck" . My W may be the same. They both seem OK with not being okay. Maybe one day we will have to let them know that not being okay is not OK by us. I have other bridges to cross first but I do see that potentially down the line. I also believe in it's power as it is that that woke me up from my depression and allowed me decide to save my M.

Thanks for the prod to post.

Best wishes to anyone reading

[SBJ]

Another funny thing (well not really funny!! ) is she criticizes her parents R and how they interact but is following their path.

It is truly odd that they are going down the same hole that their parents did, yet they cannot see that they are.

Mine is doing to me the same thing her mother did to her father, yet she cannot see it. Her mother, on the other hand, is beginning to wake up and see that it is happening.

I have changed my negative interactions which formed half of this dynamic. I am grateful to be able to see this kind of stuff, though the years of blindly taking my R for granted (no I would even say when I didn't care less about it during my depression) will not be easy to overturn.

I'm sure we all took our marriages for granted at times. There is nothing to be ashamed of, but instead we should be grateful that we have recognized that and will try our best to not do it again. Just as MWD has said, we are becoming the people our spouses would be crazy to leave. We are doing our homework and are trying to fix our faults so that we can become so much better at our jobs of parents, spouses, friends, lovers, etc.

[Gordie]

Roist,

Do you think that cultural differences contribute to your issues?

Could you say more about your energy work / alternative therapies?

Heading out on a family vacation soon; any suggestions for making the best of it?do you guys sleep in the same bed?

Gordie

[roist]

Gordie

Thanks for your questions.

No I doubt cultural differences has any part in our downfall.

Can you ask a more specific question about the energy?

On holidays we bring the same baggage as at home.So I expect that there will be some moments that are less pleasant than I would prefer. Knowing this helps me be less affected by them. I carve out some me time each day without impacting family time/activities. We both put a lot of energy into the kids. Two years ago it felt like she was on holidays with her kids and I was there with mine. That was terrible. Since there has been slight improvement but still takes a lot to get through.

Our situations are different though. Your holiday could be perfect with minimal mlc behavior. However I would advise you to expect some and find a way to brush past them.

Yes we share the same bed. Have done so throughout this. With very rare exceptions we go to bed together at same time too, just after we check in on our boys...... like a normal couple!!

Best wishes

[bttrfly]

Yes we share the same bed. Have done so throughout this. With very rare exceptions we go to bed together at same time too, just after we check in on our boys...... like a normal couple!!

Roist I cannot imagine how painful that can be at times. This process requires so much patience and compassion.
You have an abundance of both.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
xoxoxoxo

[Gordie]

Re energy work...what exactly have you done and has it been helpful to you? Do you see an empath? An energy worker? Have you just learned about it and done practices on your own? How has this helped or not helped you? What do you think about energy work compared to other spiritual practices?

[roist]

Thanks bttrfly for appreciating the difficulty of my.situation. it is no longer painful but nonetheless remains difficult. I have tried conveying what it is like on several occasions but maybe it needs to be lived to be understood fully. That being said if anyone can understand it is the good folks here.

But it's not all doom and gloom. Having "normal" aspects to our lives helps keep standing. My W contributes a lot to our home and especially our sons. They are definitely winners and even if we split now they are almost three years older and that will help them.

I also get to see her unhappiness and her struggle. This is no walk in the park for her and is in all likelihood worse for her. And yet she is still here. A big part of that is likely to be not wanting to lose half her time with our sons but even the fact that that registers is more positive than many others.

Unfortunately I don't see my situation changing any time soon. Remember a while back I mentioned my W cleared out her special occasion underwear when we redid our bedroom cupboard. They stayed for months in the spare room and last week were bagged and brought to recycling. When I saw it bagged I almost mentioned it but resisted. Sure she doesn't need them to be sexy!! Whereas it is great she doesn't want to keep them for attracting someone else, it did feel like it condemned any turnaround in the near future.