Cali, I think that the timing is what alot of us have a problem with. In my case the D papers are ready to sign and it's just less than a year from BD.
SBJ ... is there ever a 'good' time to recieve D papers as a LBS? We can not control this, just as we can not control what the MLCr does. I was served a day after my birthday, its never a 'good' time if you do not want the M to end.
Originally Posted By: SBJ
So, you think that we should have a list for us. A list for our improvement and about things that we need. But, we might make a list that our mlc'er might not ever be able to live up to.
I may not have been clear. Lists can become quite useful as I have shared here in several places about making a list for yourself. For those unaware of this list its 3 seperate lists:
1)10 things you like about yourself 2)10 things you do not like about yourself (These are not 10 complaints the MCLr has ... things you actually admit you should be better at) 3)10 things you admire in people of the same sex (Women/men you admire)
Print this list out, pic one item from #2 and replace it with an item from #3. This takes time, allow yourself time ... you will and should struggle, this is part of the process but important to keep in mind 'Continuous Improvement' is what you are aiming at here.
As far as a list for the MLCr should they want back in is dangerous, you are setting expectations, listing out punishments. My intent was to get to the point you have boundaries, non-negotiables that should be set regardless if its the MLCr or someone new. Personally I am not sure my MLCr and I will ever R or not, I am probably in the 5% club, however if she were to come to me and show the signs I am all to well educated on I may be open to it but I threw away that list of "She must do this, this and this or no dice" Understand the amount of pride they will have to swallow just to admit to themselves and you that they made a mistake. A person who survived this with his wife said it like this .... she is in a hole and stacking boxes to try to get out, she is doing the work ... you can either kick the boxes or allow her to stack them and crawl out (Notice no mention of helping her stack the boxes here)
Originally Posted By: SBJ
I agree with the list thing. If you don't have trust and transparency, there is no need for a list. I had a mini touch this weekend that I totally misread. I have to harden the eff up a bit more. I guess I was hoping that she would emerge from the tunnel before I had to sign the papers. Here in Texas, once both parties sign the D papers it goes to the judge. Once signed by him you have 30 days to make changes or cancel and then it is final. WOW! Seems fast to me.
Sorry to hijack skm...
I have read your sitch ... I would not call that a mini touch .... not sure what I would call it really as she may have just wanted to see your reaction and if she would be rejected ... anchor test at best, and I know its just nomenclature but its important to understand the difference as this goes on for you.
The thing to keep in mind is they are all sorts of messed up and it takes time for them to figure out things.
SBJ......no worries on the hijack I am so grateful that each of us can comment on the others thread. I know for me it really helps me to hear other people's perspective on things. We are all going through something so similar, and to be able to see it from different points of view is very helpful for me.
I know I am going to have to reconsider my "list" issues. I never thought about it being a punishment for H. I thought of it as ways for him to help me build trust again. He is the one who got himself in this mess and it is up to him to get himself out. We both know he is struggling (financially, mentally, emotionally and physically) he has acknowledged that, but I am leaving that mess up to him to figure out because he is the one who made it.
Am I punishing him by wanting him to be transparent with me? I'm not sure.....I just want him to stop doing things that he has to hide. For me, that shows he still has the thoughts and tendencies as he did while he was having the A....and that is something that I won't allow to happen to me again.
Caliguy......again, thank you for your thoughts. I am definitely someone who over analyzes everything. I am really trying to work on that.
I liked what you said about making a list that says "what do I want in a partner"......great advice. And this also applies to "what does H want in a partner."
she is in a hole and stacking boxes to try to get out, she is doing the work ... you can either kick the boxes or allow her to stack them and crawl out (notice no mention of helping her stack the boxes here)
THIS ^^^^ IS WHAT I NEEDED TO READ!!!! Something so simple, but makes so much sense I am not going to help him stack the boxes, or kick them out from under him, but I will continue to let him crawl his way out.
Even though I know he is doing the best he can, it still doesn't make it any easier. I am so ready for all of this SH*T to be over with But, honestly I don't really know if things will ever really be over, because with reconciliation or D, there will be different challenges. I am trying not to have expectations of him because when I do it only sets things up for failure.
Now that the house has sold there is nothing left between the two of us in terms of mortgage, accounts, insurance and etc....nothing that has both of our names associated with it. I guess that is some form of closure in some sense of the meaning
H says he wants to come and speak to my this evening. He is currently attending an event for some of his clients, but when that is over, he would like to come and speak to me.
Let me go back ..... about a week ago I was starting a long stretch of days at work (5 -12 hour shifts). Before those started we had dinner and we actually enjoyed each other's company. I started my shifts, and during that time, H did call me a few times the first couple of days, but for some reason I didn't answer his texts or calls. I am not really sure why, maybe I was testing him, or punishing him, which I know is immature. He called again, I didn't answer. Well needless to say 7 days went by and we had not spoken or texted. One day I went to my car after work and there was a card in it from H, saying "I want you to know I have been thinking about you, and I hope everything is ok." A few more days went by and I finally told him thank you for the card.
Last evening, I called him to ask if I could have the dogs because I have several days off. We ended up speaking about those days we didn't speak to each other. H said he was sad that happened and he felt himself "going back into his hole" again. He said he felt "lonely" also. He said he didn't like that I was "ignoring" him and now he knows what that feels like and he didn't like it. He asked if there was a reason I wasn't responding to him?
I told him that I was very grateful that he continues to work on himself, and that I am also working on myself, but was curious if there was ever going to be a time that we would work on "us"??? I feel like he gives up easily if things don't happen the way he wants them to, or if I don't respond the way he wants me to. An example of that is last night he said to me "you know I have love for you." I think that is his way of saying he loves me.......still not sure. He then proceeded to say "I know you need to hear 'I love you' from me" he then said "after spending time with you last week I felt like I was ready to tell you, but then I didn't speak to you for those days I changed my mind." Seriously??? I got upset when he said that and told him "if I act a certain, or don't act a certain and you make decisions based off of that, then we are in BIG trouble." I then said "that is what got us in this position in the first place."
We discussed other things and he said he feels like he is ready to start to move forward and work on "us." I'm leary of this......
I was reading TxHubby's post about how he has decided to stay with his wife because even though she hurt him horrifically, he knows she isn't perfect. He also said he knows she is capable of lying, cheating and betraying....because she has already done that in the past. But, he also said she has owned her actions and is remorseful and has worked toward repairing their relationship with great sacrifice.
I know that I love H, and I know that he has said he is sorry multiple times and does regret the A. But is that enough? I feel like he continues to not open up and share things that I would like him to. He still has trouble with being vulnerable, being transparent and is still pretty selfish. Maybe I want that from H and I don't feel like I am getting that, and that is why I do things to punish him
Not sure if moving forward is the right thing for us right now? Will I ever know when the time is right....if it ever is
I have detached more this past week and I have enjoyed being on my own, and not having to wonder or think about what H is doing. Do I really want to get back into that again with him?
skm, I always enjoy your updates. I think it is the hope that is so palpable for you. I am nowhere in my own situation and don't speak from experience, but your words say that you are not ready because you do not trust him. I think you have to listen to yourself.
I don't think it has to be an all or nothing proposition. I would let him talk, try not to interrupt, let him make his proposal, whatever it is going to be. And then tell him you need time to process it, you need time to think it through. I would tell him that you love him (if you do) but are not interested in a false start that would set the relationship back even further.
I would want to know what he had done to work on himself. How he envisioned a new marriage and how long he thought that would take (I've seen threads where it takes years, does he get that, is he ready to commit to it)? If he thinks all will be well in two weeks, that would be a huge red flag.
Seems like going slowly, dating, setting up regular times to discuss things, and identifying places you guys got off track in the past would be really beneficial. I've become jaded about marriage counselors, so I think you have to decide if counseling would be a good thing for you guys.
I have been wanting to stop by and say hello to you :-) You have really come leaps and bounds in your sitch. It is pretty incredible to read. You are this great example of dropping the rope, doing a 180, and making choices for you alone ... and then comes H (ta da!) peaking around the corner, and right when you are about to give up. You have shown how doing that actually can flip the distance-pursuer dynamic. Then you get this boost in confidnece, which consequently leads to more detachment.
So now here he is and you are wondering "wait a minute, is this real? or, is this really what I want now? If it is real, can I even trust this?" Sigh. It's so hard in it's own way, because while the emotional pain is not as crippling as post-BD, the sitting on the fence can be torturous in it's own way. You feel like you need to make a decision now. And how do you decide?
It is so interesting because your sitch is one of the ones that I thought would turn this way. Not even sure why, just a feeling I had. I have learned to trust my gut feelings more than anything. What does your gut feeling say about all this? I mean heart and brain aside? Without overthinking, what do you think you should do here? ... there is so much to be said for that little voice inside. It just knows.
When my H did his turn around, my gut told me to take it much, much slower than I did. That was hard because we had kids, but also because I was still so fearful/confused/traumatized. Looking back now, I think my gut was right. I think we should have taken it slower.
I can't really tell you one way or the other. What I would say is that you don't even have to make a decision at all. Things will unfold in time. As You know, you cannot control if he is consistent, if he will hurt you again one day, or if he will bail once you let your guard down. Are you afraid of that? That is ok, that is natural and you need to protect yourself.
Here is what I found the most telling about your post. Not that H is coming around and pursuing harder as he feels you slipping away--that is actually kind of predicable. What is telling is that you are punishing him and you know it. I totally love your honesty BTW. So are you punishing him so that he will pursue you more? Or are you testing if this effort from him is real and genuine? Or are you totally just bitter and resentful and want to hurt him?
There is no right answer, but I am more curious than anything. You don't want to be in any R where you feel a need to punish someone do you? I wonder what you can do about that. Can you work on yourself more before committing to work on things with him? And can you explore your thoughts and feelings while maintaining a healthy friendship with him and see how that feels? I mean it's not healthy or normal to care for someone and punish them right?
If you read my sitch, you will see for that all the time I did not spend on me--looking inside, challenging myself to change, learning to be healthier and happier despite my M--well it still totally bites me in the bvtt. Time is our friend and there is always more of it :-)
Just my thoughts when I read this. You are doing fab! Please keep posting!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Blu and Ownit......thank you so much for your replies.
Well, the night did not turn out very well. H came over, we took the dogs for a walk. Didn't really speak about much, just chit chat. We got back to my place and he started falling asleep on the couch. I told him that I thought he should go home if he was tired. He then got up to make some coffee (I guess to help him stay awake). He continued to chat about things that were of no significance to what I thought we were going to speak about.
I got up, got ready for bed. H asked "are you going to bed now".... I thought it was pretty obvious what I was doing
I told him that he should go home and I hope he had a safe drive home. He just stood there. He said "I'm sorry that we didn't end up speaking about what I planned on talking about" and then of course he apologized....which seems to be his "go to" whenever he doesn't do something he says he will. I told him that I didn't accept his apology because if it really meant enough to him he would put aside how he was feeling and speak to me about what he initially came to talk about.
He said the same things I have been hearing for a few months now in regard to him having a hard time expressing how he feels, how he doesn't know how to make himself vulnerable and things of that nature. I told him that at some point all of this is going to have to stop being about how he feels and what he wants. I politely reminded him that he needs to start thinking about me, and what I have been going through in all of this, and for once maybe he could think about what I might want or how I feel.
We spoke about other things and then we somehow got onto the subject of the OW. I thought I knew all of the details of the A, but as I found out tonight I was wrong. I guess this is what they call "trickle truth" ...... just stinks that it happened almost 20 months post BD. He told me that during the A, he sent naked and graphic photos of himself to the OW, and that she did the same. I think they might have also sent graphic vidoes to each other too. To this day he says that he only had sex with her one time.....something I still have a hard time believing. The A went on for over 3 years (she did not live in the same city). They only knew each other 2 days before sleeping together and this continued for the 3 years following....this is why I don't believe they only had sex once.
I'm not really sure why, but this information about he photos and video made me so angry with him. I told him he needs to tell me everything, and he swore that was it. I still don't believe him, and now more then ever I don't know if I can ever trust him.
He told me that he has made the decision that he wants to make this work between us. I asked him why and he said because he loves me. He said he knows it is hard for me to understand this, but he made a commitment to me and he wants to stand behind that commitment and the vows he made. I just sat there and starred at him. I really wonder if this man has any clue about what comes out of his mouth sometimes
It was late and I wanted to go to bed. I told him he could sleep on the couch. He said he assumed he would be sleeping in the bed with me......uh NO!!!!
He went to the upstairs guest room and I went to bed. I could not stop thinking about him sending the photos and the videos. I couldn't get it out of my mind the fact that he continues to lie to me. After about 15 minutes I went upstairs, woke him up and told him that I could not get the image of him taking graphic naked photos and videos of himself and sending them to her out of my head......I asked him to leave and he did.
I am hoping that he gives me some space to think about all of this. I have always gone with my gut, it hasn't ever let me down before. I just feel that him continuing to lie, and be deceptive to me, might be the nail in the coffin.
You said the night didn't go well, but you learned things you didn't know before. He was more honest with you than he has been in the past (although yes it sounds like he wasn't completely honest). He told you he wants to make it work between the two of you. These are all good things.
I've read loads of return stories on this and other sites. They don't come back full of remorse and telling the full truth of what happens. Perhaps you are expecting too much too soon. I'll let Blu and those who have been there take it from here. I just don't think it sounded that bad. Progress is rarely linear, it happens in fits and starts.
skm...since my sitch is nowhere near where you are right now I have no advice, but it does seem that the saying of believing 1/2 of what they say still holds true. At least he is trying to open up to you. I would assume that is a step in the right direction. I hope and pray that things are able to work out for you both.
I read in another woman's testimony that her H came home and she didn't think that she would be able to let go of the things that he had done and the resentment that she had built up, but that with the help of God, she was able to cover those thoughts with the love for her husband. I assume that it would take alot of love and patience to get thru that, but it is possible.
And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Matthew 19:26
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
Just reading your updates thought I would chime in on how I see it. Totally get where you are coming from, and the hurt that is attached with it. I know when I first learned of the A I was furious, livid, you name it as long as it was attached to something that resembled anger I felt it. Then there was the coming to grips of it all, accepting it and I thought I had dealt with it. When she came back she opened up and told me how it happened, why it happened all from her perspective ..... it was like I went to the garage and had to open up that box of hurt and deal with it all over again. Then taking the details and lining them up with timelines the betrayal of is all rushed over me like a tsunami. You have to figure out what it is you can deal with .... the reasons he stalled and did not want to talk is in fear of how you would react .... bright side is at least he is attempting to come clean with you. It hurts, it stings and it its you who has to deal with the pain and the fall out.
My advice .. do not get hung up on the particulars ... It was an A that he admitted to, does it really matter if they had at it once or 10 times? Does it matter if they swapped pics, emails, love notes, coupons to the grocery store? It was an affair .. many things we do not approve of happens in those and all we can do is decide how much we really want to know in order to move on. Key part of it all is moving on.
I had to ask myself ... does it matter NOW, right this very minute .. you can not undo the past. Many people (myself included) just can not get over the past and become stuck ... its hard to drive that car to the next destination when you are staring out the back window. That's when I decided ... ya know what, I do not have to live with what she did, that's a reflection on her and something she will always carry ... no need for me to carry that box, she packed it with all those things that come with an affair she can carry it.
You may need details of the A, you may not .. you need to decide what you want as far as information. If he is simply unloading it on to you to ease the guilt set the boundary and stop him .... its his burden to carry ... consequences of his actions MLC or not.
It definitely sounds like he wants a second chance I never got to that space so Im not sure how all this must feel take some time to decide what you want and need and this point-
You said you can trust your gut
read the threads on piecing maybe to see what others have done to get through the beginning phase and dealing with lack of trust
Someone once told me -Its more important to trust ourselves.. then we can trust our choices and even though some things may be risky and all R are we can trust that we can take care of ourselves ..no matter what
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I am so grateful that each of us can comment on the others thread. I know for me it really helps me to hear other people's perspective on things. We are all going through something so similar, and to be able to see it from different points of view is very helpful for me.
But, honestly I don't really know if things will ever really be over, because with reconciliation or D, there will be different challenges. I am trying not to have expectations of him because when I do it only sets things up for failure. 
