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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2746562&page=11


So now that my wife has pretty much completely moved all her stuff out I feel that it's time to set some boundaries with her about just coming into the house whenever she wants to while I'm at not here. I'm just wondering if asking her to give me her house key would be a bad thing at this point? At this time she really has no reason to be inside the house.

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Why does she come and how frequently?

Why is it bothering you?


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She's been coming a few times a week when she was packing her stuff all times when I wasn't home but I just am wondering now that she's moved all out of it's a bad thing to ask for her key or not. I don't feel like she will take my stuff but still, just wondering what approach I should take or any approach at all

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Stunned, I don't think asking for the key is necessary, but if you really are uncomfortable with her coming and going at will, have the conversation with her. Tell her that you since she no longer lives there, that you would like her to let you know when she needs to come over so that you can plan accordingly.

If she objects, just point out that you would not show up at her place unannounced, and you would like for her to reciprocate that level of respect.


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Originally Posted By: Coconut
Stunned, I don't think asking for the key is necessary, but if you really are uncomfortable with her coming and going at will, have the conversation with her. Tell her that you since she no longer lives there, that you would like her to let you know when she needs to come over so that you can plan accordingly.

If she objects, just point out that you would not show up at her place unannounced, and you would like for her to reciprocate that level of respect.


Yeah you're probably right asking for the key is not really needed. I'm just more concerned that I'll be out of the country soon (on a trip WE booked a week before she left!) for a week and I don't want her in the house while I'm gone. So I will be talking to her about that at least. And asking her to let me know before she stops by for now on cause she came by again today while I was at work. She's getting her cake and eating it too just coming by whenever she wants when I'm gone. I almost feel like I'm making her exit the M too easy for her just the way she wants it.....

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Be careful, it's not about punishing her, it's about your boundaries. Why does she go to the house?


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I don't want to punish her I know it's a fine line and I'm trying to stay on the graceful side of the line with her. She still has a few odd and ends things she's gettin from the house. But she never tells me when she's coming and makes sure I'm at work when she does. I just don't feel comfortable having anybody in my house while I'm out of the country. Is that too harsh to tell her not to come in while I'm out of the country?

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Is there any way you could box up all of her stuff, and any "our" stuff that you don't want, and get that too her?


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She's already boxed it up she's just making trips a few times a week after work taking a car load to her storage unit. She has some Christmas stuff that she needs to go through to sort out what's hers and mine.
Do ANY WAW come back after they go through all the trouble of moving all there stuff out of the house??? It's not even been 6 weeks yet but I am panicking at times thinking that once she's done getting her stuff out she's not looking back

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Stunned,

Take the key back. Once she opted to leave W forfeited the right to come and go as she pleases. Ensure that she has all her stuff out before your trip. You taking back that key will be a serious eye opener for her. That should be your boundary. Don't do it to be mean. But just state that you need her to respect your space.


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Now I'm really conflicted as to what to do, with some saying don't ask for the key and others sayin to take the key back. I really don't want to give her more ammo by taking the key so I'm leaning towards not taking it for now. I guess it'll just depend on how the talk goes.

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Why not just ask her to please respect your private space, and call to schedule a time to come over before she comes. And maybe say, I hope you can respect my boundary on this without my going to the next step, which will be to change the locks. (But make sure you are OK legally to change them before you make that statement. I have no idea about your specific area and law!) And do it all very kindly and business-like, with no emotion involved. Just a thought.


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Originally Posted By: leahsue
Why not just ask her to please respect your private space, and call to schedule a time to come over before she comes. And maybe say, I hope you can respect my boundary on this without my going to the next step, which will be to change the locks. (But make sure you are OK legally to change them before you make that statement. I have no idea about your specific area and law!) And do it all very kindly and business-like, with no emotion involved. Just a thought.


Yeah this is the approach I am wanting to take. The house it only in my name and I bought it before we were married so I can legally change them if I want, but I'm really trying to show her nothing but love and grace through this. Idk if that will back fire on me but it's the only approach I'm willing to do

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So I exchanged some emails today with the W trying to get her to meet up with me to talk about some boundaries, I'll post our exchanges and let me know if I screwed up
Me: Good Morning, So since you've got almost all your things out of the house I feel like we need to talk soon to discuss a few things. I'm thinking one day after work this week we can meet up for a few mins and discuss things.

W: Good morning, im not trying to be mean.... but it really depends on what you want to talk about. its been hard enough as it is and i dont want to keep having repeat conversations. i hope you have a good day too

Me: It's really just things about the house for the most part

W: Ok Im sure we can either meet up or talk on the phone one evening this week

Me:ok id really prefer in person this time, just let me know what day works best.

W:alright Ill try

Me:I know this is all very hard for you too, and i really do appreciate you willing to meet me in person this time to talk.

W:ive had a lot going on in the evenings after work lately so im not positive but will try to. I am also worried about the conversation turning into one we have had many times and mentally i just cant do that anymore.

Me:I understand you feeling that way, im not going to pressure you into reconciliation talk. You already know what I want and how I feel. If and when that talk comes it'll be your choice.

W: So why does it have to be in person?

Me: I know you dont trust my words or actions right now, I understand why cause of how some of our other talks went. I just feel like this one needs to be in person is all. I am not going to turn it into a reconciliation talk.

And she didnt respond after that, but she did come by the house when I was working to finish getting the last little bit out of the house.

She just REALLY does not want to meet me in person still

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Hmm, I felt pressured just reading that. Why does it need to be in person?

Dude, if you don't want her in your house without asking, you could of just said that via text..


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It's more than that I'm about to go out of the country for a week and I need to see her reaction when I ask her to respect my privacy and not go in the house while I'm gone. If she gets crappy than I'll have to decide my next move after that.

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Ok maybe I DO have another thing I want to say to her. I really just want to acknowledge and validate her feelings as to why she feels this is best for her and to let her understand I KNOW why she feels separation is best for her. Is that bad to bring up? She constantly said when she was leaving you don't understand ho I'm feeling and why I feel this is what's best for me. Well I do understand now

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So your goal is to get a reaction?


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Stunned,

Forget her feelings and her reaction. Text her to not come by the house unannouced anymore and return the key. You wanting to meet her for that is just going to piss her off. Which will make push further away from ever wanting to meet you in person. Trust me we all know how your W will feel without having to see her face. You wanting to validate her is bringing up R talk. Just let it go for now.


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Originally Posted By: Coconut
So your goal is to get a reaction?


My goal is get her to know that I validate and understand her feelings in this

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No, you validate when she comes to you... You don't lure her in so you can validate...

Your goal is to GAL, find a passion, be the F'n person who she couldn't do without.


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OK, I am telling you this, like from Sandi2's point of view. Just tell her she doesn't come into YOUR HOUSE without your being notified and verified first.

PLEASE LISTEN TO THE WOMEN ON THIS SITE. If you do anything less, you appear desperate. Which we understand, but if you include HER in that conversation that we are having here, it will make her even more determined to RUN RUN RUN..

We are totally on your side, but we can't help if you don't listen to us.


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Ok so at this point trying to validate her feelings is pointless and will make her distance herself farther away? Got it, guess I'll just stick with the non emotional stuff

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
W:ive had a lot going on in the evenings after work lately so im not positive but will try to. I am also worried about the conversation turning into one we have had many times and mentally i just cant do that anymore.


Validating response: "Oh I understand, you feel pressured when you see me in person. I am sorry you feel that way, but I will respect your boundaries. I think we can handle it by text, what I wanted to tell you is X, Y, Z."

By continually telling her that YOU want her to come by in person, you are pressuring her to get YOUR way and is that not "more of the same" behavior?


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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Originally Posted By: Stunned
W:ive had a lot going on in the evenings after work lately so im not positive but will try to. I am also worried about the conversation turning into one we have had many times and mentally i just cant do that anymore.


Validating response: "Oh I understand, you feel pressured when you see me in person. I am sorry you feel that way, but I will respect your boundaries. I think we can handle it by text, what I wanted to tell you is X, Y, Z."
I
By continually telling her that YOU want her to come by in person, you are pressuring her to get YOUR way and is that not "more of the same" behavior?


No you are right and so I sent her an email today basically saying that if seeing me makes you feel uncomfortable than we don't need to do that cause I don't want you to feel uncomfortable so she said she would call me tonight. I really need to focus on this conversation and what I want to say and not make it full of pressure cause I know that's pushing her away more. And only being less than 6 weeks into it's gotta be all still very fresh with her with loads of hurt still

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So yesterday evening the W called me so we could talk about some boundaries with the house now that she moved all her stuff out. I tried to say it as nicely as possible and said shes always welcomed here as its still her home too but for now you aren't living here so id really appreciate it if you would respect my privacy and simply send a text or call before coming over for now. i think at first she was kinda surprised and said "im not going to take your stuff or anything" I said I know you're not and I trust you wont but id really appreciate if you please just call. she agreed she would.

After that I felt compelled to bring up something that I realized when we were exchanging emails earlier in the week when she was very hesitant to meet in person. So I probably made a mistake but i felt I needed to say it. I said I know you feel uncomfortable around me and dont trust me. i can see why cause I unknowingly lost track of meeting your most important need in the marriage and now that Im figuring it out its prob frustrating you even more wondering why it took this for me to understand it. And im sure you're not trusting my intentions as sincere. And because of this you built a wall to protect yourself from me. So Im going to cont to work on my weaknesses so that you can eventually feel comfortable being yourself around me again. I know I need to put your feelings in front of mine and since I know how uncomfortable some of our talks have been for you Im not going to put that pressure on you anymore. This is on your time so when you feel comfortable talking about things it'll be your choice.

She started crying when I said that and she said this is just so hard to go through, i tried to validate her feelings and said I understand how hard this is for you and im sorry youre feeling this way. I said I know that this isnt how she wanted our marriage to be. She cried for a few mins and I wanted so badly to just come through the phone and hug her.

After her crying its like she snaps herself back into place of moving forward and said I hope we dont fight about money cause last time I asked you about the house you acted like you didnt want to talk about it (the house is only in my name and I bought it before we were married so she legally cant get anything for it) and I said I understand you feeling that way and If/When that time come we can talk about it then.

We talked for a while after that just small talk and some laughs from both of us here and there. Over all it really seemed like a talk we wouldve have before she left. It seemed like she didnt really want to get off the phone but I felt I needed to end it cause it was over 45 mins of talking. So I told her how nice it was talkin to her and hopefully we can have more talks like that. she acknowledged it was nice too. (yet a mistake I know) i said it would be nice to jsut grab a drink sometime and talk, she didnt agree but didnt shoot it down either. Over all it was a really nice talk, but who knows what she thinks of it. And now today because of that I want so badly to ask her to hang out but I know thats the worst thing I can do at this point. I'll just give her more space and let the talk simmer in her mind for a while, if shes even thinking about the talk.

At the end of the talk I just told her Im gonna keep doing my life for now and just have faith. She said I know and I left it at hope you keep in touch and then said bye.

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So my W sis n law started texting me today asking how I was told her ins was doing ok then she asked if I think there's hope or is she done I said I'm praying for hope. Then it's like she really started trying to discourage me say well I know her and I know in the past that when she doesn't feel the connection or love she's done and she sticks with her feelings. I just said I know that's what she's done in the past but she's never been married or had this long of a relationship so this is different to a degree. It's just really irritating when someone tries to but into your personal life like they know the outcome cause of things someone has done in the past.

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Yeah maybe you should have started out with "i'm not comfortable discussing this matter with W's family"?

Maybe then she would have butt'ed out and not discussed it any further. That could have spared you the irritating feeling.


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Originally Posted By: Btrow
Yeah maybe you should have started out with "i'm not comfortable discussing this matter with W's family"?

Maybe then she would have butt'ed out and not discussed it any further. That could have spared you the irritating feeling.


Yeah that could've been better, I think she's letting her own feelings bleed into her comments cause she's not happy with her husband so.....

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Very unfair of her, but at least you know why she acts that way then, so dont pay any more attention to what she says.


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The W keeps asking me to do things for her at my house. For example she left a wall mirror and she asked me to take it down for her so she can take it tomorrow which I did. Then she has a bunch of outdoor stuff that's in totes and she was asking me to bring them up to the house from the shed. A few other things she's asked lately too, I feel like she shouldn't be asking me to do these things since she left and we aren't together for now? But I'm a fool and I want to keep things positive so I do them. But I feel like she's taking advantage of my niceness? Should I say no you need to do that on your own since it's your choice for leaving or cont doing the things she asks?

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You should definitely tell her no. Trust me these W will take advantage of you being nice in a heartbeat. If she wants to leave, then she should make the moves.


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Yeah I'm thinking the same thing she's always saying how hard this is and I've bent over backwards for her this entire time to do everything he way she wants it done. She's always asked me to not be at the house when she was packing and I did it so why is it so hard for her??

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It concerns me some using NC with my wife when I've had several people in her family and friends say to me they know her and when she's done she's done and there's nothin you can for her to get those feelings back. I'm sure a bunch of waw say that but I know she's told me about her past R and it seems pretty true that when she gets hurt or mad about something she's out and doesn't look back. But this is a marriage and she's never been in a R even close to as long as one with me so surely that ca change things? Maybe? Besides that I've done a lot better as of late not putting pressure on her and not taking about the R. I've been doing a lot of GAL things but I still find her popping into my head even during the things I love to do. It's almost been 7 weeks so I know it's still very early and her hurt has got to be very fresh and painful still.

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Sandi2, I would love for you to read my story and offer some of your amazing advice on my waw. Idk how to let her see this post but I would really appreciate it, reading her replays are just amazing and full of insight.

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
I tried to say it as nicely as possible and said shes always welcomed here as its still her home too but for now you aren't living here so id really appreciate it if you would respect my privacy and simply send a text or call before coming over for now.


Sounds like you handled that quite well. This needed to be done, basically you're putting her on notice that she no longer has full access to you or the house.

Quote:
I said I know you feel uncomfortable around me and dont trust me. i can see why cause I unknowingly lost track of meeting your most important need in the marriage and now that Im figuring it out its prob frustrating you even more wondering why it took this for me to understand it.And im sure you're not trusting my intentions as sincere. And because of this you built a wall to protect yourself from me. SoIm going to cont to work on my weaknesses so that you can eventually feel comfortable being yourself around me again. because I want to become the best person I can be for the future.


See above corrections. If you're going to share feelings with her, then make it about your journey of improvement, don't say you're doing it for her or for the R because to her (right now) it's "too little too late". Just acknowledge that you're taking what she has told you to heart and are working on yourself. I said something like that to my W and asked her for input, if there were other things I should work on. She offered nothing up. Looking back I think her attitude was "oh sure NOW he wants to be a better person, why should I help him now after years of trying to tell him what he needed to work on." Your W will probably see it that way too. I think it's OK to have that convo, but don't keep bringing it up. If SHE wants to share feelings well that's OK, but this isn't the time for you to open up.

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I know I need to put your feelings in front of mine and since I know how uncomfortable some of our talks have been for you Im not going to put that pressure on you anymore. This is on your time so when you feel comfortable talking about things it'll be your choice.


This is one of those things that you don't tell her you're going to do, you just do it. Put it into practice.

Quote:
She started crying when I said that and she said this is just so hard to go through, i tried to validate her feelings and said I understand how hard this is for you and im sorry youre feeling this way. I said I know that this isnt how she wanted our marriage to be. She cried for a few mins and I wanted so badly to just come through the phone and hug her.


Don't let the crying confuse you, it's just guilt coming through. It's not remorse. She still thinks she's doing the right thing and that she is justified.

Quote:
After her crying its like she snaps herself back into place of moving forward and said I hope we dont fight about money cause last time I asked you about the house you acted like you didnt want to talk about it (the house is only in my name and I bought it before we were married so she legally cant get anything for it) and I said I understand you feeling that way and If/When that time come we can talk about it then.


Just remember that there is a time for validation and a time for standing firm. When it comes to settling the D then put your business face on.

Quote:
So I told her how nice it was talkin to her and hopefully we can have more talks like that. she acknowledged it was nice too. (yet a mistake I know) i said it would be nice to jsut grab a drink sometime and talk


You were doing pretty well up to that point, but that's blatant pursuit. Don't go there!

Quote:
And now today because of that I want so badly to ask her to hang out but I know thats the worst thing I can do at this point.


When you can remove pressure from the WAS, often they do soften up a lot and will open up more and feel "safer" talking. DO NOT CONFUSE THIS with any interest in recon. On the contrary, she is only opening up more because she thinks there is no pressure to recon. If you start applying pressure again (asking her out to drinks or to come by to talk) then she WILL shut down again. So you really need to quit that.


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5 days after that talk I sent her a text on morning asking her if I could call that evening to talk. She said talk about what? I said just talk for a few mins not really. About anything. She texted back I don't know, then I said if you want to talk about how you feel about that we can. Her response was I just don't feel like we are at a place to just call and chat is all, not trying to be mean. So obviously the hour long talk the week before wasn't as good of a talk as I thought or maybe she enjoyed it too but didn't want to give me false hope of talking regularly. I'm sure that felt like pressure to her once again.

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My wife did the same thing...when she first told me she wanted a D I asked her a bunch of questions, etc. and she got pissed, didn't want to explain or anything. Now that I don't ask, inquire, try to talk, engage, etc she is much more friendly to be around. I even got a side hug when she came to the door on Monday. I have decided to not bring anything up ever again and she knows my number if she wants to talk, etc. I'm done chasing, talking and trying to explanations.


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Originally Posted By: Stunned
5 days after that talk I sent her a text on morning asking her if I could call that evening to talk.


That's pressure. When you get the urge to do that stuff, pull out Sandi's rules and review them again:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2230603

Quote:
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.


I actually printed Sandi's rules out and kept them in my pocket and read them several times a day. It's a good gut-check that keeps you from straying off course.

Quote:
She said talk about what? I said just talk for a few mins not really. About anything. She texted back I don't know, then I said if you want to talk about how you feel about that we can.


Yeah that's pressure, don't do it. If SHE wants to initiate a talk (which she probably won't for months, or even a year or more) then fine, you listen. But stop inviting her to have convos. It just makes you look needy and desperate to her.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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So the W just stopped by to get some of her outside stuff, I kept myself busy doing other stuff we talked a lil at the end. She made the comment "thanks for letting me stop by" kinda like she was bitter that I asked her to start letting me know when she comes by for now on. I said to her it's not like that you're always welcomed I just really appreciate it if you just let me know for now on is all. It makes me feel bad now that I made that boundary with her but it's the first thing I've done this whole process that's not on her terms so I don't thinj she likes that.

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PLEASE

I hope you took in the post from Another Stander and really really ponder it b/c you are getting feedback and I'm not sure you are taking it in. You need to read his post to you again, please.

This approach only works when you apply it.


Originally Posted By: Stunned
So the W just stopped by to get some of her outside stuff, I kept myself busy doing other stuff we talked a lil at the end.


Did you feel like you had to be there? I'm not arguing for or against, but asking.

Also Were you doing anything new or different or a 180? B/c if you are going to be exposed to her, then at least make it an opportunity to demonstrate change in you. Mystery or upbeat new hobby, new cologne and clothing, but something different...you want her to second guess her choices

NOT b/c of things you say...b/c that will backfire.


She made the comment "thanks for letting me stop by" kinda like she was bitter that I asked her to start letting me know when she comes by for now on.


I'm Not sure you are correct here^^. It's mind reading. Why not ask her what she meant, next time? Not confrontationally but b/c you are not clear on how she feels about it.




I said to her it's not like that you're always welcomed I just really appreciate it if you just let me know for now on is all.


Why not say, in an upbeat peaceful way "Yes I want to know when someone's going to be in the house, especially since I'm out so much. But as long as I have notice, there's no problem..." cool

Then change the subject and move along.


It makes me feel bad now that I made that boundary with her but it's the first thing I've done this whole process that's not on her terms so I don't thinj she likes that.




Why not be a mysterious busy guy who is GAL, who simply needs a little notice about someone entering the house?

I'm not saying to point out that it's YOUR house((!) b/c that can sound obnoxious and she knows it anyhow. ( IF IF she's bugged about asking permission to enter, my guess is it would be that, ad not the boundary per se. Just the fact that it's all in your name).

Anyhow, you freaking live there.

Even if you were both tenants, I'd say this to the person still living there. Tell the visiting spouse you need notice for safety reasons, among others.

As for you saying it 'made you feel bad", that's b/c of the story you are telling yourself.

It's nothing she said or did that is new.
It's how you chose to interpret a comment she made.

Detach buddy, a whole lot more.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
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X = "ALASKA 2.0"
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PS

I just read your post again and missed this - -


she got her outside stuff.

So, why were you there outside around her, while she picked up her stuff?

Am I understanding this^^ accurately?

So, hmm, do you have a lot of your own things outdoors next to hers? Is it all safely attached/secured?

And now I'm curious , why would you need notice from her to get something of hers, that is outside?


IF i'm getting this vision accurately, it's really coming across differently.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
PS

I just read your post again and missed this - -


she got her outside stuff.

So, why were you there outside around her, while she picked up her stuff?

Am I understanding this^^ accurately?

So, hmm, do you have a lot of your own things outdoors next to hers? Is it all safely attached/secured?

And now I'm curious , why would you need notice from her to get something of hers, that is outside?


IF i'm getting this vision accurately, it's really coming across differently.


I wasn't outside beside her, I was building frames for some canvas album cover art work I bought and was putting up out in the garage. I was only near her for the first minute when she stopped by then she went down to the carport moved her stuff and I continued to build my frames and hang my art work. The only time I approached her was to inform her where I saw a snake the other day and to be careful. After that I cont to do my thing I inside the house hanging my art. I made sure to stay away. At the end she came inside cause I had a pile of some misc things on the kitchen table and that's when we talked for a min or two. The conversation last week about telling me before she came over had nothing to do with this day, it was a general comment for whenever she comes over and wants to come inside. She came inside and saw them hanging up and said it looked good, I said thanks and that I was trying out my interior decorating skills but her skills are much better (me trying to show words of affirmation)

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Oh boy. Well I get the sense that you are making excuses to be around her. "She's outside doing stuff so I will putter around working on projects outside." "Oh, I better go warn her about that snake I saw the other day (that is probably in another county by now)." "She's going inside, I think I'll follow her in just in case she needs something." DETACH. To 25's point, why were you there AT ALL. GAL means "get out" and do something. If you know she's coming over, then get dressed up and go do something. Maybe be pulling out of the drive as she's pulling in and wave to her and drive off. Make her wonder what you're up to.


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I've probably pushed her so far away that there's no chance of her coming back, I HAVE to get my stupid emotions in check. I can't keep doing this if I ever want her to think about recon. I'll be out of country all next week so that should be a good start since I can't contact her if I even wanted to but this had to stop and insist wise up and listen to you guys. It's 7 weeks today that she left so maybe I can correct the shop if I can stick with it

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So just and observation when my W moved her stuff out she took ALL the pics of US even every single M photo. Idk why but that seems odd to me and I could view as a good thing cause she wants to keep them but now sure why? But she didn't take any M gift that had our anniversary date on it like a few glasses and a cutting board so maybe she wants the pics but not the M date? Again I'm over analyzing things I guess. Over all today I feel like I'm more determined than ever to truly GAL more and to focus on my 180s to just overall better myself cause that's the only person I can change.

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
So just and observation when my W moved her stuff out she took ALL the pics of US even every single M photo. Idk why but that seems odd to me and I could view as a good thing cause she wants to keep them but now sure why?

did you want any? If so, please ask her to make you a copy. Do not ask her why she took all of them.


But she didn't take any M gift that had our anniversary date on it like a few glasses and a cutting board so maybe she wants the pics but not the M date? Again I'm over analyzing things I guess.

yes you are massively over analyzing. Maybe she didn't want to take things of monetary value without discussing it or she's not interested in having reminders of the date, etc. I have seen so many gestures or behaviors like this analyzed and it's almost funny how wrong we are. Takes too much energy to guess.


Over all today I feel like I'm more determined than ever to truly GAL more and to focus on my 180s to just overall better myself cause that's the only person I can change.
\

True! My suggestion would be to make a few specific goals for GAL, rather than "overall better".

Like you "will join an organization/team/club/church this month.

Sign up to Volunteer or coach or take a class or study a musical instrument this week, etc.

Start an exercise program this week, reach out to an old friend within 48 hours.

Plan a trip (and you already have a job with travel!!)

This^^ will yield results. Most of them cost little or nothing. And you will feel better, and detachment will become easier in time.

Hang in there


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
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Originally Posted By: Stunned
I've probably pushed her so far away that there's no chance of her coming back, I HAVE to get my stupid emotions in check.


Don't beat yourself up, we've all been there and it is tough! For many of us it is the toughest thing we've ever been through. There IS a chance of recon though, so don't give up hope! I really believe in the power of positive thinking, if you convince yourself there's no chance then there isn't, but what if you said "you know what, this WILL turn around and we WILL be happily married again" and you thought that every moment of every day? What if THAT was your attitude, and you went through life happy, knowing that eventually you would have the M you want? There was a woman that did exactly this. Her H was a full blown MLCer and she basically told him "you go do what you need to do, I know you'll come back some day" and every day she worked on living her own life and left him to his crazy disaster of a life he was living. She didn't wait for him, but she KNEW he would come back and they would have a great M again. And years later, they did! It was a great story to read about because she refused from day one to let him bring her down, spoil her attitude or take her on his roller coaster. She was in the M for good, but she wasn't going to play any part in his games.

Quote:
It's 7 weeks today that she left so maybe I can correct the shop if I can stick with it


You're fine, still very early in the sitch. Most of us start out as terrible DB'ers. We beg, plead, pursue, do all the wrong things. Don't dwell on what you did wrong, think about what you can do right from now on!

Originally Posted By: Stunned
So just and observation when my W moved her stuff out she took ALL the pics of US even every single M photo. Idk why but that seems odd to me and I could view as a good thing cause she wants to keep them but now sure why?


Like 25 said, don't read anything into it. Who knows. We had a room divider in our house that W put photos in, there were 12 photos of friends and family including a wedding photo of the two of us. After S I asked her if she wanted it and she took it to her house. For over a year when I would drop the kids off or pick them up, there was that divider in the entry and that wedding photo staring at me first thing when I walked through the door. I never read anything into it, but I did wonder why she left it. She even swapped some other photos and left that one. Anyway she did eventually take it out. I have no idea why she kept it that long, maybe just a nostalgia thing.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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Another stander,

That's for the positive feedback, I have been thinking fairly positive for the most part but I do have some bad times and that's usually when I post on here hah! It's so strange cause I truly feel in my heart that this isn't the end of us I can explain it but it's a feeling I've had the entire time. I really feel like a lot of. Is still has to do with the Ivf and miscarriages cause she's really checked out of life all together, all she wants to do is just have fun with her friends and family and. It worry about anything else. That also makes me feel like she's overall depressed cause everytime I see her she doesn't look happy, and maybe that's cause she's seeing me and that makes her unhappy. Either way I can clearly see the pain and hurt in her eyes still when I look at her and it kills me knowing I contributed to that pain.

I will continue to 180 my life I've read countless books, getting in the best shape I've ever been in, going out with friends as much as possible. Flying to the Caribbean tomorrow (on a trip I booked for both of us the day after the miscarriage) but I'll make the best of it cause like you said I can't let her take me down her sad path. She's in turmoil for sure, I am too but I need to drag myself out of it and carry on, still praying for recon but making the best out of life if and when that day comes. And I'll be so prepared for recon with all the things I've learned and discovered about myself, about her needs and just about Nanking get a M work all together.

Things will get better I know it, with or without her..... stilling praying with her of course.

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On the wedding photos issue-


They are by far the best pictures that I have of me at that age.

Heck if I'll throw those away...

just saying


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
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DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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25,

Your reply was conspicuously parsimonious. Are you ok?

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Originally Posted By: doodler
25,

Your reply was conspicuously parsimonious. Are you ok?



you mean my reply was not long enough? cool

Point for Stunned is to read nothing into her keeping the wedding photos. It's not a bad sign.

But I'm not sure it's a sign of her good feelings about the m either.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
On the wedding photos issue-


They are by far the best pictures that I have of me at that age.

Heck if I'll throw those away...

just saying


Maybe that's what she is thinking too but being only 3 years ago she really hasn't changed much in my eyes.

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So my w brother contacted me the other day to tell me he was finally able to get my w to communicate with him via text. A little background he went through a similar situation with his wife 3 years ago where she wanted a divorce and he was able to work things out after months of hard work. She hasn't wanted to talk to him since day one cause she knows what he wants to say is against why she's doing. Anyways he reached out to me and said that he promised her he wouldn't tell me what they talked about but I should already know cause we've talked often since this has happened. All he could tell me was "she's confused man" do idk if that's a good thing or bad or neither ha. I'm just glad somebody close to her is actually speaking positive words to her FOR the marriage.

Oh and I'm on a trip to the Caribbean this week (that I booked for US 2 weeks before she left) and several times before I left she said "have a safe trip" me analyzing this is just wondering if she's just being nice or there's more to it. Either way it's been nice to get away and try to rest my mind and emotions form all this but flying back tomorrow

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Feels like a received yet another blow to any chances of my w wanting to reconcile. My w is very close with my bros w and my bros and his w are in a very rough spot right now and she's talking about moving out cause of something inappropriate video she caught him watching on his phone. They've had issues for there entire m (15 years) off and on. So I just know that her talking negative about my bro to my wife is prob helping my wife wth her reasons for staying gone. It's just very discouraging thinking some many outside influences could be negatively affecting the outcome of our M. I've backed off a ton the past few weeks, have tried to remove any and all pressure off her and haven't had any contact with her since 8 days ago. But I truly feel like with all these outside influences it's all but doomed. Oh and it'll be 2 months on Tuesday since she left.

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It's been two months since my w walked away, it feels like it's been two years. It's so hard to believe that this is considered early on in this of course everyone outside of this forum is saying how long it's been and if she hasn't come around yet she prob never will. That's pretty discouraging to hear, and I do feel like we should be farther along than we are but I can see some very small baby steps forward at times but not much.

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
It's been two months since my w walked away, it feels like it's been two years. It's so hard to believe that this is considered early on in this


If you're in a marathon then two months would be about the first seven steps, LOL! We just can't stress it enough around here, the recovery timeline is extremely long and especially in the first few months all the negative talk she throws at you really means nothing.

Quote:
of course everyone outside of this forum is saying how long it's been and if she hasn't come around yet she prob never will.


Read chapter 1 of DR, Michele addresses this. Your friends and family think ripping the band-aid off is the best course of action for for THEM because they don't want to "suffer" having a friend or family member being miserable. If you are choosing to stand for your M then just politely tell them to either support you in your decision or shut the F up. Simple as that smile

Quote:
I do feel like we should be farther along than we are but I can see some very small baby steps forward at times but not much.


It's far too soon. Right now you need to focus on YOU. How's your GAL going?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

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My GAL has been slowly improving, i workout 5 days a week and eat much better. I try to mountain bike most weekends and or fish. I just got back from a week in Aruba which was bittersweet cause I booked it for both of us after the miscarriage and the fact we go there a lot together but I did make the best of it.

My w has been in close contact with my bros w and right now that it a bad thing cause my bro and his w have some major probs so I know her speaking negative about my bro is prob validating my w reasons for leaving saying it's hereditary or something that they can't treat women the right way. So that's discouraging but I pray my wife will one day see me as and individual and understand that I am not my bro or my father. But right now she's probably not thinking that.

How bad do you think outside influences affect the timeline of this process? I'm sure it increase the time line a lot.

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
How bad do you think outside influences affect the timeline of this process? I'm sure it increase the time line a lot.


I'm sure it affects it a lot. My best friends XW (WAW) divorced him two months before my XW (WW) divorced me. WAW and WW are best friends too. They probably sit and pat each other on the shoulders and are doing high-fives.. Incredible, we all started dating around the same time 20 years ago and divorced within two months. Its a crazy old world.


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Originally Posted By: Btrow
Originally Posted By: Stunned
How bad do you think outside influences affect the timeline of this process? I'm sure it increase the time line a lot.


I'm sure it affects it a lot. My best friends XW (WAW) divorced him two months before my XW (WW) divorced me. WAW and WW are best friends too. They probably sit and pat each other on the shoulders and are doing high-fives.. Incredible, we all started dating around the same time 20 years ago and divorced within two months. Its a crazy old world.


It's definitely discouraging that people can't think for themselves, the people encouraging them don't care cause it's not there life that's gonna be affected. I guess misery loves company

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So I'm curious if it's typical for a waw to pretty much stop caring about EVERYTHING in there life and not really have emotions or feelings for anything? Talking to my w today about a few things with dr bills and our Ivf and she was just stone cold about everything really. Talking about how she really doesn't care what they do with the left over embryos and saying it was prob a good thing she miscarried. It's just shocking how she is now.

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so I called My W dr today cause we've never gotten the genetic testing results for the babies. Well they called me back and said they found nothing wrong and then asked if I wanted to know the sex of them I said yes. It was a boy and girl. I hung up and could barely keep my self together. Asked w to call me she did and I told her that info and I could hardly get out the sex of the babies from sobbing so badly and she was just as normal as can be no emotion I can't remember exactly what she said but felt to me something like dang that [censored]. And I was like aren't you upset she said it's upsetting but I've already moved on and grieved. Idk if she's trying to hide the emotion from me or she's really moved on from it or she's blocking it, it just really hurt....... it's like she void of any feelings or emotions right now....

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
so I called My W dr today cause we've never gotten the genetic testing results for the babies. Well they called me back and said they found nothing wrong and then asked if I wanted to know the sex of them I said yes. It was a boy and girl. I hung up and could barely keep my self together.


Asked w to call me she did and I told her that info and I could hardly get out the sex of the babies from sobbing so badly and she was just as normal as can be no emotion

I think you need to back way off. You felt your emotions and kind of fobbed them onto your w

and then she reacted as 90% of people do when they are confronted with someone else's emotional outpouring

meaning, when someone is very emotional around us, it's very hard for us to "match" them. Our natural tendency is to go the opposite direction or you'd have two people sobbing and losing control.

This is why some actors move us by their "barely maintained composure", their internal struggle to keep it together. When they "lose it", the audience tends to remain composed and not lose it.

Hard to explain but I've been to 3 funerals in which parents lost children. In none of them, did both parents lose their composure at the same time. One comforts the other or keeps their $h1t together b/c it's just too much falling apart to do, both at once.

I know it's very painful for you. I get that. But please, please do not do that to her again, especially without warning. frankly, I am surprised she did not get angry at you.

So sorry but that's my take on it.



I can't remember exactly what she said but felt to me something like dang that [censored]. And I was like aren't you upset she said it's upsetting but I've already moved on and grieved.

cry She had no warning of your coming announcement and

frankly, I kind of feel like you called her for her to comfort you. With no notice, too.

She's felt pain, trust me.

Idk if she's trying to hide the emotion from me or she's really moved on from it or she's blocking it, it just really hurt.......

so to be clear, how did she hurt you? Or are you saying the knowledge hurt you?

As for the babies, I'm so sorry. ugh.

Is the news that there was no genetic problem, good or bad?



it's like she void of any feelings or emotions right now....



Oh I doubt that^^^ very much. Don't mind read, don't surprise someone with an emotional bomb and then read into their response, especially when you have a very emotional one.

it's very very hard to match someone else's emotional content when they are sobbing.

We tend to compensate for the emotion the others are showing so if someone is very very angry, we tend to want to calm them down or to be very calm

if someone is very afraid, we tend to be reassuring as if we feel no fear

and when someone is sobbing, especially about something we were not expecting to hear and about something we have already processed, yes we tend to try to keep it together.

It's not at all her having an emotional void. I think that might be really unfair of you.

Anyhow, I'm very sorry you're in pain. Truly


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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The hurt part was the knowledge of finding out the sex of the babies. I worry that now she knows nothing genetically was wrong with them if shes blaming herself for this? I would never blame her for this as its nobodies fault but I've never actually said those words to her. I wanted to call her back that day to tell her that but she wouldn't pick up and texted me saying she didn't wanna talk right now. I texted her back saying I wanted to tell her something about the babies when the miscarriage happened and she replied that its too late for whatever I have to say. That kinda hurt but Its true I should've consoled her better at the time and reassured her that it wasn't her fault.

She knew I was gonna call her but it was only a quick text asking her to call me I had news about the genetic report but that was still short notice.

You're right I am backing way off for the most part but with that news it just really hit me hard. Seems every time I bring something emotional up to her she pulls way back and fires back with something about this M ending so I'm sure its her guard going up farther each time. It's been two months and i know yall say don't believe anything she says at this point but she says shes already moved on with it all so IDK how things can get better with MORE time but im dropping the rope.... I have to for my own sanity. This emotional roller coaster is too much and I have to GAL more and relax and take it for whichever way it comes.

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Wow 25, that is one of the most helpful things I've read on these boards and really gives me some insight into my own life.

Stunned, I'm sorry you are struggling. I went through two miscarriages before having my children. What I can tell you is that when you do have children, and I am sure you will, that the pain of that loss will finally be ameliorated. I'm not sure it will ever go away completely, but it will be better.

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Originally Posted By: Stunned
The hurt part was the knowledge of finding out the sex of the babies. I worry that now she knows nothing genetically was wrong with them if shes blaming herself for this? I would never blame her for this as its nobodies fault but I've never actually said those words to her. I wanted to call her back that day to tell her that but she wouldn't pick up and texted me saying she didn't wanna talk right now. I texted her back saying I wanted to tell her something about the babies when the miscarriage happened and she replied that its too late for whatever I have to say. That kinda hurt but Its true I should've consoled her better at the time and reassured her that it wasn't her fault.

She knew I was gonna call her but it was only a quick text asking her to call me I had news about the genetic report but that was still short notice.

You're right I am backing way off for the most part but with that news it just really hit me hard. Seems every time I bring something emotional up to her she pulls way back and fires back with something about this M ending so I'm sure its her guard going up farther each time. It's been two months and i know yall say don't believe anything she says at this point but she says shes already moved on with it all so IDK how things can get better with MORE time but im dropping the rope.... I have to for my own sanity. This emotional roller coaster is too much and I have to GAL more and relax and take it for whichever way it comes.


First, I'm very sorry for your miscarriages.

But it's important you understand (and I can't tell if you do) that not having anything genetically wrong is not the same as healthy or viable. Ruling out genetic issues just means there were the right number of chromosomes (and possibly that they looked for some known genetic markers of certain diseases).

It seems weird that if you thought knowing the genetic results would make it more likely she would blame herself, that you took it upon yourself to give her that information unprompted.

Clearly, you deserve to be supported in your grief, but it's just as clear that your wife is not the person to be doing that right now. Do you have a counselor to help you work through this?

As for time improving things--it might, if you actually give her time and space. Until you do that, it probably won't help.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Just an update as it s been a long time since I ve been on here. It seems most people drop off and never come back so I ve decided to let y all know what s been going on since last summer.

The om the w claimed was just a friend ended up being more than that and she s currently very pregnant with his child. I always knew deep inside she wasn t telling the truth about him and around September I found out the truth.

We have not and will not be reconciling, the D should be finalized in a matter of weeks.

Around the time I found out the truth of the om I dropped the rope and decided to get myself together and started dating some. Each time I found something I didn t like about the person I quickly ended it as I was being very picky. For the last several months I found a great girl and things are going well. It s hard to believe where I am now vs where I was just a year ago going through a living hell.

Things do get better, you might not think time will ever allow that to happen but it does. They don t always get better with the way you want them to but with time and gal you slowly see improvements. Life is pretty good again

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Hello Stunned! Thank you for checking back in and for the update, it's always good to hear success stories even when they don't involve recon. So glad to hear you are doing well and found someone that appreciates you! Congrats!!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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