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Hello Everyone!

For those of you in the U.S. - hope your Holiday was fun!

As for me, I have been doing a lot of thinking lately. I went out to dinner with my parents and my S on Saturday. While waiting for the food my S became fussy so my dad took him for a walk. I took the opportunity to talk with my mom. I asked her about whether she has told her friends about my impending divorce. She looked at me like I was crazy and she said "No. With a gay daughter and now a divorced daughter, are you kidding me? What will people think? They will think we have a crazy mixed up family." I didn't respond and changed the topic. **sigh**

I have been mulling this interaction over in my head. This is my mother in all her classic glory. My reaction has been one of hurt, shame, and disappointment. But why? Why do I care whether she tells anyone? What difference does it make? None. It doesn't change a single thing.

So where is the hurt, shame, and disappointment coming from? Is it coming from her? Am I picking up on her feelings (projection) and dealing with them? I feel like there is some of that in those feelings. But there is something more. What else?

I feel ashamed, hurt, and disappointed that I have let her down? Yes. Upset that things haven't worked out for me and H? Yes, there is some of that in there too. The old, I am responsible for HER feelings. This definitely goes back to childhood and my father always reminding me that if I didn't do this or that, then my mother wouldn't act badly (and therefore my mother's feelings and behavior were MY fault).

Am I making sense to anyone?

I need to find a way to step away from those feelings. I don't need them. They are not mine. I am not responsible for how she feels and how she behaves. Easier said than done for sure! If anyone has any suggestions or feedback on how to do this or anything I have written, I am all ears, please share your thoughts.

The problem I have with all of this is that I feel like because I am a part of the situation that is causing my mother distress, then I am responsible for causing her to feel the way she does.

I am at a loss as to how to sort all of this out.

On the MLC front - things between H and I are deteriorating from a communication standpoint. There is none. No greetings (except see you later). No good mornings, no hello, how are you, etc. All the normal pleasantries one might expect from someone are gone. No questions. Nothing. I am mirroring that behavior. In other words, I won't initiate.

I have come to expect it. I still feel sad about it. But that is on him right? This is his choice? I can't make him open up; he has to want to do that. If I greet him, ask questions, etc., then I am just pursuing/chasing him. Is that right?

What is frustrating is I feel like he either doesn't care, doesn't notice, or prefers this?

Even though my relationship with H isn't going in a direction I like; somehow through it all I feel like I am actually getting somewhere?

Am I? Can I get some feedback please? Validation if I am on the right track? A 2x4 if I am not so I can reevaluate.

I have a bit of a heavy heart today.

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Hey, FightOn!
If you look up REBT therapy, the ideas might help with your mom. You're on the right track...you are not responsible for anothers reaction or feelings. They are not responsible for yours, either. We need to own that. We just have to understand that dynamic and do our best to catch ourselves when we worry about our effect on others or start to react to some behavior of theirs that we might not like. Research it...it is very helpful!

As far as MLCer, I have some thoughts and questions.


"On the MLC front - things between H and I are deteriorating from a communication standpoint. There is none. No greetings (except see you later). No good mornings, no hello, how are you, etc. All the normal pleasantries one might expect from someone are gone. No questions. Nothing. I am mirroring that behavior. In other words, I won't initiate."

So, from my understanding, to "not initiate" is to not START contact. No texting, no calls, no random dropping by to say "hi". If you are forced into contact (kid exchange, L visits, etc) it is suggested that we are "light and breezy" or even friendly. Eye contact, smiles, pleasant and contented attitude...let them wonder why you're happy. That's not pursuing...that's LIVING, or at least acting "as if". To smile and say "hello" is simply polite, especially if you immediately go about your business or work on the task at hand.

"If I greet him, ask questions, etc., then I am just pursuing/chasing him. Is that right?"

Partially. If you smile and say "hello" or "good day" to a stranger you pass while walking in a park, are you pursuing? NO. You ARE BEING POLITE. They most likely will return the greeting and you both will have a warm feeling about the exchange...as you go on your way. They, and you, will see the exchange in a positive light and feel good about it. Other than that, it is meaningless. Not pursuing.
If you run into a neighbor, workmate, or old classmate that you have no feelings for, on the other hand, and you see each other and recognize each other but you ignore them...will you feel good about the lack of exchange? Probably not. Its considered socially rude to not acknowledge someone you know, even if you are "mirroring" their behavior. Now, you have no control over their actions, but you do have control over yours. When in doubt, for the sake of civility, take the higher ground. Smile and say "hi" just to acknowledge them.
That's why we are told to treat our NC partner in "forced contact situations" like a neighbor. You want them to see you happy or at least content regardless of their actions, unaffected by THEIR behavior. And if a comment is made, acknowledge it. If it is a compliment, thank them. If it is a complaint, validate (I'm sorry you feel that way). If they continue, its in your control. I've chosen to listen...my choice and I own that.

"I have come to expect it. I still feel sad about it. But that is on him right? This is his choice? I can't make him open up; he has to want to do that."

You feeling sad about it is actually on you, not him. He is responsible for his behavior; you are responsible for your response to that behavior. Part of that response is how you feel. What part are you sad about? How can you change that feeling? Think hard about the parts to that feeling, where it is actually coming from. Its not from him; its something coming from you. What are you saying to yourself about his behavior that makes you sad?

Also,

"I can't make him open up; he has to want to do that."

You're right. But you can carry yourself in such a way that he might eventually want to possibly do just that. Would you "open up" to someone who seemed angry, sad, and just as unhappy with life as you are in your head? That could hardly bother to speak to you while in your presence?
You had a relationship. It was there, but was altered. Be pleasant...it draws people to you. Be consistant..it builds trust (over time). Give him space (that's the NC and not pursuing)...it shows respect for his needs right now. Be confident...it builds trust as well as makes you seem more stable. Be the Lighthouse...you're showing him where the safe passage home lies. Be patient ...go live your life and let him work his problems out on his own. And be calm...for your sake and his.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
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Hi Ciluzen!

Thank you so much for your feedback.

You are right that my feelings of sadness are on me!!! I see it!!! My feelings of sadness are tied into my expectations and my impatience.

I think I am taking my concern about pursuing behavior to the extreme. I need to be pleasant. Not just for me, for S and to be the Lighthouse.

When I confront my feelings about greeting H and how I treat him I do feel some resentment. Like I am making things "easy" for him and he gets to escape "justice." But I need to remember that he is in crisis and that although things may appear okay on the outside, they are not. My feelings are tied up in my hope for a confirmation that my perception of what is happening is right.

I am hanging onto hope. What a fool's errand!

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Fight on,

I got a lot of 2x4s when I was letting my W's mood swings control how I was feeling and what I was doing. My mantra was to just be steady and confidently me no matter what she was doing. This was hard but it relieved me of the panic preceding interactions. It calmed my soul and made life more enjoyable...at least for me.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Thank you for that bit of advice Gordie. It is helpful.

I recently finished a book that I found very helpful. Very helpful. What I enjoyed about this book was the fact that it explained the psychology behind the things H and I were/are doing. It isn't just a how to handle the situation; it contained answers to the question of why the situation was happening.

As hard as it was to read some of the things, it was hugely helpful. I don't know why, but I find that if I can understand "why," the "what do I do about it" becomes much much easier to understand and to follow through. (I am certainly not saying it is all very simple, because it's not.)

I find myself having so much regret over how I handled things with H. Regret, remorse, and sorrow. I am so very sorry for the way I handled things. I wish I knew then, what I know now. How things could have been different.

I have to accept that we are where we are and there is nothing I can do about it. I can only move forward and strive to be better. It is too late to save our marriage and I hate that I co-piloted it into the ditch.

One of the things I very clearly understand now is why H blames the marriage. In a way, I did it too by blaming him for our relational problems. The way I saw it is this: I wasn't having any of these type of relational problems with anyone else in my life. Only him. So I assumed it was all him. I took myself out of the equation. Perhaps he is doing that too?

He has said otherwise. He verbally has said he is responsible for doing things that were detrimental to the relationship. However, he has never elaborated and when pressed, changes the subject or tries to start a fight about something else. I never seem to get to the bottom of it. It is such a shallow admission of responsibility that I cannot accept it was being sincere. For whatever reason, he just cannot go there.

Over the weekend we had a disagreement about some yard work. On Saturday, out of the blue, he tells me that some tree trimmers would be coming by on Sunday to trim a bunch of trees. This is the first I have heard about it. I asked him why he didn't tell me about it sooner. He said he did. First he said he brought it up last week, then said, oh I told you two weeks ago. Um, no. Then he said, well, I'm paying for it so what difference does it make. He completely missed the point. So I dropped it. What's the use.

Well, the issue was stuck in my craw. So I brought it up, but I think in a nice way. I asked him what he understood my issue to be with the tree trimming. He said it was two things, the first being the money, and the second being whether it needed to be done.

Ugh! He actually asked me if this was correct and I said not exactly. I told him it was the lack of communication. I was disappointed that he had made plans to do this to the house, our house, and I wasn't part of the conversation. It had nothing to do with the money, it had nothing to do with whether I thought it needed to be done. It was the fact that he made a unilateral decision to do something to the house and I didn't find out about it until the day before. There was no discussion. No inclusion. No talk of "hey, I think this needs to be done so I'm going to do pay for it and have it done."

I'm not sure if he really understood.

I wanted to add why it bothered me, but that is probably too much "relationship" type discussion for us. And I don't feel comfortable getting that vulernable with him. He isn't safe, I don't trust him.

But maybe I can tell all of you to get it off my chest. I was upset because I felt left out. Which is really a glimpse into how I feel about his emotional life. I feel left out. He has had all these thoughts and feelings that I have no clue about.

Looking back with what I now know, I can see that not understanding his feelings and emotions caused me to interpret his actions in a negative way. My stuff, my issues, interpreted his actions.

I have never been sure I have known what he was feeling or thinking. And sometimes when I would press I would get answers that seemed incongruent with his actions. I have really felt that either he doesn't know what he feels or he is covering them up.

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Fight,

I'm a little puzzled by the tree incident. Who normally handled the yard, yard work and hiring outside contractors. I would have been delighted if mine had gotten off his butt and actually done something.

Maybe I have this wrong, but I think that what bothered you is that you had no control over this situation. That he did it unilaterally without discussion (read your approval).

I think you may still have some serious control issues when it comes to him. That said, I don't believe for a moment that you were a co-pilot in sending the marriage into a ditch. Not unless you mean by your decision to marry him.

I did everything for my H. Everything. I gained weight. He hated it. Said by doing that I forced him to cheat on me and I abandoned him. Do I believe I did things wrong in the marriage? Absolutely. Do I believe I was the co-pilot? Nope. We would have ended up in the same situation regardless of my weight. I have zero doubts on that point. Perhaps it would have happened sooner, perhaps it would have gone down a little nicer, I don't know. But it would have happened.

Keep working on detaching. Own your side of the street but don't take the blame for his.

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Hi Own --

Normally, H handled coordinating yard work. But I would always be included in the discussion. A simple, "hey, I'm gonna do this on this day" is just plain courteous.

What ruffles my feathers even more is when the workers arrived on Sunday, they blocked my car in the garage. He moved his car, but didn't bother to tell me they had arrived or that they would be parking their truck on our driveway. I had no idea until I went to leave the house. I opened our garage door and there was a huge truck backed onto our driveway. And H had moved HIS car. I had no idea the workers had arrived until after an hour after they got to the house. (I was wholed up in a room with S, who is sick, BTW.)

All I want is to be informed on what is happening in and around our home. I didn't mind the work and don't quarrel with the fact that it had to be done.

I think I am asking too much of a MLC'er. I just realized this. I don't know why I didn't keep it in mind before. I look at H, talk with him, and at times he seems so together and normal, and I get wrapped up in my own feelings, I forget about the MLC mindset.

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Fight, that is easy to do. Somehow many parts of their lives seem to function normally so you look at them and forget all of it. I fall into the same trap with my own H all the time. It goes like this.

1. I convey some information about the kids (or some other matter) that makes him feel guilt and shame (without meaning to do so.).

2. He monsters and rages and brings up divorce and personal attacks.

3. I get upset and convince myself this is the time.

4. He realizes he has gone too far and communicates again without an apology.

5. Nothing happens for a while.

6. Repeat.

OwnIt #2750966 07/13/17 06:11 AM
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So I finished another wonderfully helpful book. This book has a similar title to the last book I read. In it there are some seemingly helpful exercises that I am going to try. As I read the exercises, I did some of them in my mind and could see right away how they could be really helpful in my healing.

One of the reasons these two books have helped me so much is their exploration of the psychology behind the dynamics in my marriage. Armed with this knowledge, I can more easily pinpoint my issues and know what I can do about them. This knowledge has boosted my confidence and self esteem. Along with that, I am able to see more clearly the emotional turmoil my H must be facing. In turn, this allows me to unload some of the responsibility for what has happened. I have too easily and too readily accepted responsibility for the whole of the relationship. I have too readily believed his perception of me and my contribution.

One unfortunate downside is I have a firm grasp on how much work is involved in untangling the emotions lurking in our psyches. I am willing to embrace this work and already feel I have accomplished a lot. On the other hand, what I have suspected all along, is that H can't do it right now. Whether he ever will remains to be seen. I am not hopeful and have not been for some time. As I have struggled to unpack my issues and face them, I have become increasingly aware of the strength needed to do this. When I look at H, all I see is him running away.

I have been reading others threads a lot lately. What I have found so helpful is understanding what happens in the relationship as the LBS turns their back on the MLC'er. It seems the MLC'er starts to notice and reacts negatively trying to draw the LBS back. This has been helpful because I think I see H bucking, resisting, and trying to provoke me.

Could some of you chime and let me know what you think of this . . .

So H works in a dangerous profession. Early in our marriage (approx. 10 years ago) we had a scare and I received a call in the middle of the night that something happened to H at work (not life threatening). I was taken to the hospital and H underwent surgery. Ever since then, I have stressed to H the importance of calling me to let me know if he will be late so I don't worry. Prior to the incident it was a source of tension because oftentimes, H would not bother. Afterwards, he got better and 95% of the time he would call or text me.

Fast forward to last night. He was 1 1/2 hours late. No call, no text, nothing. H knows this bothers me.

I didn't say a word about it. I did not ask him any questions. When he came home, I cheerfully greeted him like I normally would. This morning, I said nothing.

I refuse to be goaded into a fight so he can justify his bad behavior. I won't do it. Nope.

If he wants to be irresponsible and mean, then that is on him. That behavior has nothing to do with me. I may be indirectly affected by it, but he is not doing this because of me. He is doing this for some other reason. Admittedly, it does bother me. It hurts my feelings that he could treat me with such disrespect. I feel like my needs aren't important and don't mean anything to him. This is exactly how my parents treated me. What I wanted or needed didn't seem to matter. They just couldn't be bothered.

So I suspect that this acting out behavior is consistent with what happens. The MLC'er pokes, prods, and tries to provoke to see what happens. Do I understand this correctly?

If so, what happens next? What should I expect from him next? More of this type of behavior?

When it doesn't work the way they expect it to, what do they do next?

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Something has come up with H that I need to talk about.

To put this in context, I do have to tell you all a bit more about H. He is a police officer. A fellow officer was murdered in the line of duty earlier this year. The colleague was not someone he really knew. H never talked about him, never socialized with him, never worked the same shift as he did, and from what I knew, had very little interaction with him.

When the colleague was killed, H showed very little emotion. He refused to talk with the psychologists that his department provided, he refused to talk with his family, and of course, he was not talking to me. I assume he was talking to OW. However, at one point he did tell me he wished all the attention around his colleague's murder would just go away so life could return to normal (???).

During this time, H has worn a plastic rubber bracelet with his colleague's name and date of death on it. It broke about two weeks ago and H was really upset. He immediately got another one. In the meantime, H had a silver cuff custom made, which he picked up yesterday and has been sporting. The murderer is being prosecuted and H attends all the court appearances and hasn't missed a single one. Even if it means missing S's drop off in the morning.

I bring this up because all of this stirs up a lot of issues for me. I feel triggered. I am angry, jealous, and perplexed.

I am angry because H, at least on the outside, shows such loyalty and dedication to a man he didn't know. And yet, he hasn't shown me and our family any loyalty. I am jealous. And I don't understand it. In my mind, I have tried to explore his motives for his behavior. Ultimately, it leads nowhere. I could speculate until the cows come home, but it gets me nowhere. So what does that leave me? I need to look at me.

I think I know why it bothers me so much. My mom. My mother would hold herself out to be a doting, caring, and loving mother at all times. But secretly behind closed doors, she was terrible. She was physically and emotionally abusive and far from the person she portrayed herself as. I absolutely resented it. And I couldn't believe that people would fall for it. "Oh, your mom is so nice. She is so caring." Uh-huh. If you only knew.

I feel exactly the same way with H. That ridiculous bracelet symbolizes all of those emotions. If I could take it and chuck it into the ocean, I would.

What I want to tell him, in a nutshell, is this:
You are fooling no one, just yourself. It is pathetic how you so desperately want people to believe you are a loyal and caring person, when in reality, the only person you care about is yourself. I hope people can see you for what your true self. I hope people see through the façade you have created.

How do I handle these feelings? I realize where they originate and why I feel as strongly as I do. I realize that it is not up to me to expose the façade. That is in God's hands. He has so got this. I have to keep walking in my light and searching for my truth and leave H to God. I believe that H's false mask is as transparent as saran wrap and sooner or later, if H allows people to get close enough, they will see right through it. Let H be, give it to God. Focus on myself.

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