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#2748207 06/23/17 03:50 PM
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Here is the link to my previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2735928#Post2735928

I hope I did that correctly.

Thank you everyone for your wonderful words of support.

Ginger, those why questions are stingers, aren't they? wink They do help me get to the center of the matter. When I think about "why" I want or need to change things, part of the reason is what I am doing isn't working and two, I feel like he needs to experience how divorced life will be like.

The real battle in all of this for me right now isn't H; it's the fact that I will be losing S 50% of the time. Let's face it, H is not behaving like a mate I would like to be with for the rest of my life.

I fought so hard to bring S into this world. I wanted him so badly. I am so happy to have him in my life. I love him so much. I read a quote somewhere that said that becoming a mother reaches places in your heart you never knew existed (or something like that). And it is so true for me. I never knew feelings like this before.

I feel like S is being taken away from me. The situation is so unjust. Almost like a cruel joke.

H spewed via text this afternoon. More justification. He wrote that I never apologized or owned up to my mistakes. Never. There are those absolutes again. I will agree that I should have apologized more frequently than I did. I should have stepped up more often than I did. I will own that. Absolutely. I regret not doing a better job of it. I see now where I have made mistakes and allowed my pride and my fear and my past issues with my mother to guide my actions.

I can't change any of what I have done. But H is still there. I have apologized to him for that. More than once. Somewhere in here, I have read to apologize and move on. Don't keep apologizing. So I won't.

I do feel incredible guilt and shame on that issue. He is right in the sense I should have owned my stuff more quickly, more readily, and been more apologetic. I feel awful about it. I am trying not to beat myself up over it.

I think a lot of my doubt about what he says stems from my guilt over what I could have done better. He sounds so certain of himself; he sounds like he has got his stuff together and like he knows exactly what he wants and where he is heading. But I have read that simply is not the case. I have read that it is all a carefully crafted facade MLCers build for themselves.

I want to believe that ^^. It makes sense. But I have doubt though. Doubt that stems from my guilt and from willingly taking on too much responsibility for what has gone wrong. This is a childhood issue stemming from my father blaming me for my mother's bi-polar/borderline rages (e.g., "you know that makes your mother angry, so don't do it . . . if you would only behave, then your mother wouldn't act this way.) So I blame myself for the state of my marriage. If only I hadn't acted this way or that way. I feel so much guilt. That guilt turns into self doubt. So much doubt that I have trouble accepting what others tell me and what others see about what is going on.

I still have a lot of work to do. But I have uncovered all of this ^^ during therapy and reading and researching. It's a good start, right?

I also have a better idea what triggers me to become angry and defensive. Whenever I feel like I am being treated unjustly or poorly, or being accused of something that I didn't do, I trigger. (All from how my mother would fly into rages and beat me over trivial things; now as an adult, when I start to feel or think I see this kind of treatment coming, it's all bad for the perpetrator.)

I can't change H. I can't make him love me. I can't help him deal with his issues. I can't make him admit his mistakes. This is all his work.

I still have a lot of work to ahead of me. But despite being served, I am trying to stay optimistic about me and my life.

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Fight I'm sorry that you are going through this. I hope that you and S are safe in the home. If he is still living there it is probably best that you don't discuss the divorce or relationship with him at all and try to de-escalate the situation as much as possible.

These are his choices. Please don't beat yourself up but i'm glad you are coming to terms with why you put up with him (I still haven't figured that out in my own situation).

Your S will be fine and the time you can focus on you and healing will make you that much stronger and present when you come back to him. Keep in mind that just because he may get 50% custody, does not mean that he will exercise it. Your S is younger, but my kids said upon learning about the OW1 and my H telling them he was leaving me, "at least there won't be a custody battle." They knew their father was very disconneccted from them.

I bet the more you can make him believe that you are ok with him having S, the less he will fight you on it. It seems to me like he really enjoys pushing your buttons in a very sadistic way. Walking around behind you criticizing everything you do is much different than actually having to parent a young child on his own. And that time will take away from the swinging bachelor life he is probably imaging for himself.

OwnIt #2748253 06/24/17 11:55 AM
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To answer your question about the exposure, you need to use it for when it's the most beneficial for you, as Job wrote you can use it as a negotiating tool to get something or I will add as something to create a small wake up call. It depends of each situation.

You cannot expose without proof, so copy anything you can and create a timeline of it. Do you have letters from her to him? What's inside? Does she write about her current boyfriend? Do they meet? Did he promise her to live together? basically who is the one who is the pursuer is their relationship? Who has the most to lose if some facts come to light? Is she really into him or just being flattered to be pursued by someone? some women just like the attention? May be right now, it's in your best interest to just keep monitoring their interactions, you don't want to expose your sources too soon.
If he moves out, she will have to make a choice, staying with her current boyfriend or with your husband, decisions will have to be made, talking is something, doing is something else (fantasy versus reality). If she decides not to move with him, he will then be hit with reality. Even in the event she moves with him, do you think her lifestyle/personality will be easy with how your husband like to live his daily life.

His spewing is a way to provoke you so you can get into another fight/argument just to confirm/justify his decision to file for divorce. Don't fall for it! Detach! Ignore them but keep/archive them, just to show how irrational and aggressive he can be in case you need to prove how unstable he is. In return, be very careful about what you write to him. Stay always "very professional".

Don't stop him to be with his son, keep him updated about what you will be doing with him, now it's up to him to join you or not, by doing that you leave him the choice, but keep your activities (GAL) private. My husband reconnected with his kids well before he did with me. If he sees what a great/dignified mom you are/were, it's something he will be very thankful for, if one day he comes out of his twisted world. The high road is never something lost down the road.

Being detached doesn't mean being cold so just treat him as a "nice neighbor", polite but no more. When you make coffee, offer him a cup or whatever you know he might appreciate (small gestures only), and keep track how he reacts, he might say no one day (don't be offended, just move one), he might say yes the other (also don't try to engage in any R, just move on).

Give him space.

Stay away from any negative circles that for your best interest.

Remember it's impossible to make him change his mind with any conversations, his mind is totally irrational right now and he sees you as the enemy, because if he feels that way it has to be because of someone, so don't give him the "treat" to validate those thoughts. Let him figure things out without you in the middle the least possible.


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I totally understand your pain regarding son and Mlcer

Some Mlcers see the kids less and less as time goes on maybe yours will also

my X h had all these custody rights put in D agreement the he wound up leaving the state and hasn't seen kids since-so you never know what will happen and of course its best if possible that son keep a R with his dad as long s he is safe hang in

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Fighton,

I completely understand your pain. My ex left when our daughter was 6 months old. He left the night the bomb was dropped. Since he had a plan to go live with his sister THAT NIGHT, I instead for 2 months went to live with my dad and stepmom. My ex never looked back, was fully involved with OW and they have been married for 6 years now and that woman is my daughters stepmom.

For year I struggled with that part. Not my ex so much, but the time taken away from me and my D. The splitting of the holidays from the very beginning. I hated them both for that. We did IVF, she was sort of our miracle baby, then I had to split my time? I am luck in the fact he did not want 50/50. I also told him over my dead body:) (I was an awful DB'er).

My point being, everyone makes mistakes in our marriages. I beat myself up the way you are. I own my part only. My ex was not good to me since the day I met him, but I always put him on a pedestal. My mistake? I finally couldn't take the abuse. Hormones during IVF finally had me needing him to be decent to me and put me somewhere on his list at the top which I never was. When he didn't I became b!tchy. I became defensive, with self protection, because I always knew what was coming. I mentally prepared myself.

I realize, after 9 years on these boards, there is no strategy, there is no really changing game plans to get them back. As long as your original plan was to simply be the best you that you can be and that makes you happy with who you are. And what is meant to follow after that is what will follow. It takes two to save an M but only one to be who you want to be.

Fast forward to 9 years later. I have had so much growth and I am happy with the person I am. I was always afraid to look in, but I no longer am. I take it overboard sometimes beating myself up. I am civil with my ex and his OWW. All I care about is my daughter is happy and healthy.

I do hope for you that perhaps your ex decides to make changes for himself and for his family. But right now, you protect yourself legally, and just be true to yourself.

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Thank you Ginger,Peace, Skyhigh and OwniIt - what would I do without your steady advice?

Ginger - your sitch is somewhat similar to mine. My S is my miracle baby. Conceived on our 4th IVF cycle with an egg donor. All the while H was cheating.

Since being served I have asked him to move out. He refuses. He claims that he is concerned that I would use the fact that he moved out against him in some way. He obviously isn't being counseled very well or that is a bunch of bologna. In our jurisdiction - who lives where doesn't impact a single thing except the issue of custody if the parties live far apart. I am considering offering to sign something saying I won't use it against him (I have never even thought of doing that - I just want him away.)

The courts split custody time 50-50, right down the middle. For example a typical schedule is Monday & Tuesday (2 days) w/mom, Wednesday & Thursday (2 days) w/dad, 3 days (Fri, Sat. & Sun.)w/mom; then the exact opposite the following week.

How nuts is that? All that bouncing around. I just can't see how that is in the best interest of the child not to have one solid homebase, but I know I am supremely biased on the issue.

The PA behaviors are in full force and effect. H is a very angry man.

Yesterday was S's birthday. I celebrated the occasion on Friday with my parents. I bought a cake from my favorite bakery. It turned out not to be that good. On Saturday night while outside with H, S was picking out parts of it saying he didn't like it. I told S that I didn't like those parts either and apologized for selecting that cake.

Can you see where this is going?

Yesterday, H brings home a different cake from that bakery. A cake he has purchased for me in the past. The funny part is he asked S if he wanted to have some birthday cake for dessert and S said no. H tried again 10 minutes later and S adamantly told H "I don't want any birthday cake!"

Out of the mouths of babes.

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At this point, I find it so much easier to drop the rope. I could care less about H and what he is/isn't doing. You want a divorce? You got it.

I would really like it if he would move out to give me some space. Prior to being served, I remained optimistic and viewed most of our encounters as opportunities to improve our relations. But now, I just want to get as far away from him as possible. Is the attitude change steeped in bittnerness? Perhaps. But perhaps this is what I need to feel in order to endure.

Another way to look at it is dropping the rope and improvements in my shouldering too much responsibility for the well being of the relationship.

What I do know is I do not want to entertain any more discussions about the relationship. Like none. We haven't had many since BD and since being served it was only that night that we talked about the relationship. But should he bring it up, I need to find a way to politely refuse to have the conversation. It is a trigger for me, the discussions go nowhere, and only serve to fuel his justifications. Something I am absolutely unwilling to do.

Besides, at this point, what good does it do me? I am not being heard; he is not listening, not validating, and only criticizing, demeaning, deflecting, and denying. From now on, if he wants to do something, but it doesn't serve my needs or goals, then I won't agree to it. "That doesn't work for me" is going to be my new mantra.

I'm not confident he will ever wake up out of this. I cannot see him ever wavering; even just a little. He is so entrenched in his beliefs and finds it so easy to point the finger at me, while only taking responsibility in a way that paints him as a martyr. It is difficult to imagine how anyone this far deep can find their way through.

At times I am sad, others times I am mad, and sometimes even indifferent. Sleep sometimes eludes me and when I am able to sleep, it is often in short spurts. I went thought this at BD and felt better over time so I am confident I can muddle through this.

More than just mourning the loss of the marriage, the relationship that I thought I had, and the person I believed H to be, I am heartbroken over the impact this will have on S. I am mourning the loss of the future I envisioned with him.

I felt like I moved heaven and earth to bring him into the world, I wanted him so badly and he is now here; only to be taken from me. It is a cruel twist of fate. So very cruel. I know H has his reasons and in his mind they are valid, reasonable, and logical. He can have them. God knows I just want my son.

So to end my overly long post, I pose a question - how can I politely refuse to engage H in any relationship issue discussions should they come up. I would like to do it gracefully, but firmly.

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You can change the topic of conversation in a polite manner. Just walking away would be rude or you could say "h, I'd rather not discuss this topic at the moment" and then walk away.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Did you talk with your lawyer if there is a way to make him leave the house? Some kind of court order?


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Thanks Job and Skyhigh!

The simpliest approach is probably best.

I did speak with the lawyer, months ago about trying to force H out of the house. The only way that happens in my jurisdiction is if there is physical abuse. (Emotional abuse doesn't count as "abuse." It is too difficult to define.) H wants to stay, for whatever reason (money?), so there is nothing I can do. My only option is to stay or to leave.

Since he won't leave, I beginning to make plans to leave. I can no longer live under the same roof with this man. It has become too toxic. I had a session with my therapist yesterday and he said when a person tries to have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person the unhealthy person acts like a steamroller and the other person is like a twig.

At one point during all of this I believed that one person can change the relationship. I've read about here, in books, articles, etc., but I am finding it is much harder in real life than on paper. My H is in la la land and resolutely refuses to enter reality or the present. It is a fight I don't think I can win. I believe I am a strong woman with a lot of fortitude and I also believe I have enough sense to know when enough is enough.

So now I have to direct my resources elsewhere. I tried. God knows I did.

My interactions with H have been very brief. I am polite, but very brief, practically a mute. I said very little before being served and am saying remarkably less to him now. It comes surprisingly easy.

In my head I picture my relationships like a house with a yard. Some people I let into my house; some people can come into the yard, but not into the house; and others have to remain on the curb. Right now, H has to stay in the street. From my vantage point I can safely watch him, acknowledge him, and make sure he doesn't hurt me my storming my castle. This is the way it has to be for me. This can change, but right now, I need him out in the street (preferably literally and figuratively). Since I cannot put him out of the house literally, I can do it in my head.

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