Wife moved to parents on opposite coast #3

[25yearsmlc]

Today I heard my wife talked to and opened up quite a bit to one of my real good friends wife and then just suddenly stopped texting her. I haven't talked to my friends wife yet, but I heard she thinks the sudden stop in texting her was because she was being too pro-marriage.

This is a long post, I warn you. But I'm going out of town and thought I'd just journal to you - about your stuff.


Stop the pressuring and back the heck off. You are coming across as micro managing and analyzing everything way too much. I think it shows.

You sent her the email with my wording to you about not pressuring her, and talking to your mom about that, and you don't think that is pushing her??

Trust me, It is pressuring her and she did not "Forget" it just b/c she's not discussing it with you at the moment.
My guess is that she is talking to others about that note and analyzing it and if she thinks you meant to send it or that you are talking about her behind her back, etc.

This^^ does not mean for you to bring it up, again. Drop it. You explained that you did not mean to send it to her so drop it or it's "me thinks thou doth protest too much".

Besides, what I wrote was discussing NOT pushing or cornering her, so please, drop it.


I would stop dissecting all the texts...they are not filled with enough content to interpret. Most of them are way too late in the night anyhow.

Oh, and of course she'll stop texting with someone who is "too pro marriage" b/c it's all the same. It's manipulation or looks like it, and in truth, wasn't it? I mean, even if you did not ask that friend to speak up for the m, you knew they would and you wanted that. It's natural, but it must stop. It is not disguised nearly as well as you believe. Too many allies trying to push the cause for good old Cali.

Please Cali, Stop trying to manipulate the outcome. You cannot force her back into your arms with words, no matter how correctly they are expressed, or by whom, or by how many, but you sure can push her away.

And as for what your w thinks you are saying to others, what do you think she believes?
Why is that?

BTW I"m sorely tempted to reach out to my MIL b/c I love her and want her to think well of me. Since she has not reached out, it makes me think h has bad mouthed me to her in some wacky ways. There is a kernel of truth to what I THINK he says, so that part shames me, although it's just a story I tell myself, isn't it?

Still, it's so NOT something for you to worry about if you know you are being loyal and respectful to your w and marriage.

If I were Not reading your posts very carefully, which for some reason I am, I'd think you believe your w was just being a spoiled little nut & many would assume an affair (to be frank, some folks here literally always assume an affair and they harp almost exclusively on it beyond belief). I'm not one of those people.

I don't think it is constructive, as it totally stops the LBSers path of growth b/c now they blame it ALL on the OP. Plus, they can be wrong.

But while affairs may all be wrong, they are not all alike.

I think your w wanted out of being far from her support system, and didn't like being lonely and depressed. There are reasons you mostly seem to "cognitively know" but just do not accept as being as valid or weighty of as logical and important as your reasons for Not wanting to leave, are. You can spin it and spend paragraphs explaining that as if I'm too dense or as if you are "just not being clear" but on that issue, you are wordy but clear.

Yes I've read your explanations for not moving, and it still boils down to this: you don't want to leave CA - unless Maybe - you know your w will return to the m AND that you'd find a job you like and enjoy there, AND somehow recover the money lost on the house and and and and other conditions you would need precedent to a move...

basically lowering your risk a lot, while asking your w to take all the risk and move back based on your promises to do things better...but back there...which is her underlying complaint.

You circumvent the points I make by saying - politely and at some length, that I'm wrong or that I "don't understand..."

**Hey, I stopped bringing that up b/c I know it's a lost cause. I figure that the strong chance you had of recon is lessened by ignoring that advice, but it's not eliminated. And I could always be wrong. So I labor on.


I'd suggest you watch Esther Perel's TED talk on infidelity. NOT b/c I think she's having a PA but Because it's about more than affairs, it's about why relationships fall apart ...and how some can be restored and on occasion, deepened, after an A. Not all can survive an affair but She has great research on this and more than one book/TED talk.

I have a hunch I have not fleshed out, but will give you now b/c I can't post to you for a few days...just to ponder.

You remind me of someone (NOT my h!!) but a man who spends time away from family for work and then when he's home he's sort of "omnipresent" with his w and kids. Maybe he wants to reassert leadership in the family or compensate for absence, etc.

Like he's making up for lost time I guess. OF course the teenagers and wife have developed their own routine so he's sort of crashing in, or being unintentionally a bit too much "there" with them when he is home. This was okay when the kids were little but now they have their own lives.

So if you feel like you have less control like all LBSers feel, that often makes a man more intrusive and hovering over your wife, which is seen as over bearing and controlling (whereas with returning women I think it comes across as needy & clingy)

----Even if it's all from a distance. Maybe you were kind of in her face when you were home or maybe it was more of the same old distance with your work but

NOW, with your loss of access, you are sort of hard core pursuing her - in your head at least.

Hyper analyzing messages and even thinking if she goes to see her brother in GA that a guy you stalked on fb, who lives 3 hours away and to whom she had messaged in the past, might be her true intended target...SIGH...even if you are "right"

you have no control over any of this^^...

Cali, do you have an IC? If not, why not?

Off the top of my head, I don't know any LBSer who has Not seen a therapist or IC or priest, and over the months - the only people I know who did recon, had someone counseling them in their corner. Just saying.

Next---

TO ME
and take this with the concern from a DB woman who'll never meet you but who supports you -

The texts about you not sleeping well, are... kind of like a boring form of pressure. And late at night...

seems like You are standing around wanting to talk to her without anything of great interest to tell her. How is that productive at all? "Some contact is better than no contact" is Not necessarily true.

Why doesn't that just prove either how little you two have to say of importance to each other (no deep connection) or how little you have in common?

If you are backing off of emotional disclosures to avoid pursuing her, that's totally fine.
If she only says blah blah blah talk, tell her to get a good night's sleep and catch up later.

IF SHE opens up A LOT and seems interested in how you feel about something, then for God's sake open up and make yourself vulnerable without expectation of her...


But if you are just shooting the breeze, answer by making it interesting and real. Not necessarily "fascinating" ...(I mean, don't force this but give it some thought)

I'm guessing you experience things in the day, at work or socially. So you must have specifics to say (not just "had a good day, how about you?" - which is both boring and putting the onus of the conversation on her)

but something like "Oh, major weirdness today! Today Boss lost his temper at manager, and manager went whacko on him- I thought I'd need to duck" // OR "so it turns out manager was shagging his partner's wife and got caught, what a %#$*..."

OR "bummer, layoffs coming, lots of tension at office, I'm a little nervous",

/new product out and stock is skyrocketing, feels exciting" "got a nice review today and looks like I may get a bonus/promotion so feeling a little proud" -

hey - things do happen in your day, right? SHARE that and when it makes sense, share how you feel about it.

This ^^way, you are sharing your day to day life -when of interest, and you are disclosing your reactions AND it is all without R pressure~. Make sense?

When the time comes, you can share your emotions about the m and your role - specifically, not generally "do better/be more loving" that is too vague, which I know I've said here a few times to you.


I suggest you lay off on how well you know her (= "I'm so good for you, better than anyone else and MAYBE I know you better than you know yourself... and thought I'd mention it again" or "You need me and I thought I'd mention it...in a slightly different way...again")

What's with telling her how you can't sleep either on the exact same nights (um, no it's not true and she knows that) plus you never disclose why...

do you have any specific interesting questions for her?

If You have had racing thoughts (most of us do in these situations), tell her one thing that helped you - and btw mindfulness and meditation are Not just for Southern Californians anymore.

When it's not the middle of the night, Ask her about work/family/school/friends or a specific thing of interest to her...or you. Places she's been, things she joined, old stomping grounds, etc. It's not all about you or people who are for/against the m.

Heck, I'm in my old stomping grounds now. My friends are supportive of my happiness in my new life OR if h and i recon, which I know some want. -But they don't have all the info-
Our loves ones do not want to see us in pain.

The DB books talk about this^^ - though I think they overstate one thing.

If You or your w are cycling thru the same old complaints to the same people, yes she may get pushed to get out of the m just b/c the recipient is frustrated hearing the same old, and has no idea what else to say.


But generally, people are trying to help. Don't worry about what you cannot control, which is most of this.

Back to you, Bring something to the table, man. I know you have it in you.

Now it's late for ME and I have to get ready for a trip.

Sorry this was so long winded. (Don't send it to your wife!)

[Cali08]

Today I heard my wife talked to and opened up quite a bit to one of my real good friends wife and then just suddenly stopped texting her. I haven't talked to my friends wife yet, but I heard she thinks the sudden stop in texting her was because she was being too pro-marriage.

This is a long post, I warn you. But I'm going out of town and thought I'd just journal to you - about your stuff.


Stop the pressuring and back the heck off. You are coming across as micro managing and analyzing everything way too much. I think it shows.

You sent her the email with my wording to you about not pressuring her, and talking to your mom about that, and you don't think that is pushing her?? That was a total accident and I didn't want her to see that in the least.


Trust me, It is pressuring her and she did not "Forget" it just b/c she's not discussing it with you at the moment.
My guess is that she is talking to others about that note and analyzing it and if she thinks you meant to send it or that you are talking about her behind her back, etc.

This^^ does not mean for you to bring it up, again. Drop it. You explained that you did not mean to send it to her so drop it or it's "me thinks thou doth protest too much".

Besides, what I wrote was discussing NOT pushing or cornering her, so please, drop it.

I did drop it completely. You can see the text exchange of it and what was said there about it was everything that was said about it.


I would stop dissecting all the texts...they are not filled with enough content to interpret. Most of them are way too late in the night anyhow.

She has a horrible time with sleep and is usually up at odd hours. She did this while living with me too.


Oh, and of course she'll stop texting with someone who is "too pro marriage" b/c it's all the same. It's manipulation or looks like it, and in truth, wasn't it? I mean, even if you did not ask that friend to speak up for the m, you knew they would and you wanted that. It's natural, but it must stop. It is not disguised nearly as well as you believe. Too many allies trying to push the cause for good old Cali.

Please Cali, Stop trying to manipulate the outcome. You cannot force her back into your arms with words, no matter how correctly they are expressed, or by whom, or by how many, but you sure can push her away.

I had absolutely nothing to do with my wife talking to my good friends wife. They had their own relationship completely separate of mine with my friend. My friends wife text her a long while ago about coming to her birthday party, which my wife never responded too and this weekend is her birthday party. I have no clue who contacted who and for what the reason was. I only happen to know this because I was with my friend when his wife texted him from her work that she was talking to my wife. At first she said my wife was being very vague is their conversation and wasn't talking about anything of our marriage at first. Then to my friends wife's surprise she started to open up quite a bit. I have mentioned this before, but one of the things they shared as friends were support to each other about issues in their marriages. Again, I had nothing to do with this and it was a surprise for me to hear they were even talking. The last time I talked to my friends wife about things she didn't even want to talk to my wife because she was mad at her. As to why I don't really know and I didn't ask the reasons as to why.


And as for what your w thinks you are saying to others, what do you think she believes?
Why is that?

Here is the thing, Im not bad mouthing her in anyway and the only people that know we are having issues are the people who are connected to us and our lives and I had to tell. I also don't think she is talking bad about me, but I don't put her friends and family are not saying to many good things about me. That is not a crazy hunch I have, but through things my wife has said to me and what she has told to my family. So, yes it surprising to me that she leads with that comment "I don't know what Cali has told you". I have only told people that truth and I continually take credit for what I have done wrong to the point of people telling me I am taking to much of the responsibility.


BTW I"m sorely tempted to reach out to my MIL b/c I love her and want her to think well of me. Since she has not reached out, it makes me think h has bad mouthed me to her in some wacky ways. There is a kernel of truth to what I THINK he says, so that part shames me, although it's just a story I tell myself, isn't it?

Maybe Im confused about what you are saying here, but are you saying that she says "I don't know what Cali told you" is giving her shame because there is truth in it or was that intended for me?


Still, it's so NOT something for you to worry about if you know you are being loyal and respectful to your w and marriage.

Personally I don't worry about it and maybe that is the problem I don't worry about many things. I do bring things up because others pose questions like this me to and I say I don't know, let me pose this to DB and see what they say. My mother is a big part of that process and she is the one who is pursuing my wife the most by far and she just can't leave it alone. It drives me nuts!!!!! I can't tell her enough that it isn't her issue and it's not her problem to solve. She is so constantly involved in her head with it that she can't drop it even though she is currently on vacation!



If I were Not reading your posts very carefully, which for some reason I am, I'd think you believe your w was just being a spoiled little nut & many would assume an affair (to be frank, some folks here literally always assume an affair and they harp almost exclusively on it beyond belief). I'm not one of those people.

I don't think it is constructive, as it totally stops the LBSers path of growth b/c now they blame it ALL on the OP. Plus, they can be wrong.

But while affairs may all be wrong, they are not all alike.


I don't think automatically there is an affair. If there is one thing my wife and I had between us it was trust with things like that, but there are different levels of affairs. When I checked the phone records so long ago it was evident what was happening there. By the way I have not bothered to check them again even though my mother is constantly trying to get me too. My advice is always the same to her and that is it doesn't do me any good. My mother is only meaning well I know and I have already upset her by telling her to leave it the hell alone, but it is a constant battle with her...... like I said she is on vacation right now and I just got a call from her this morning asking me about things.


I think your w wanted out of being far from her support system, and didn't like being lonely and depressed. There are reasons you mostly seem to "cognitively know" but just do not accept as being as valid or weighty of as logical and important as your reasons for Not wanting to leave, are. You can spin it and spend paragraphs explaining that as if I'm too dense or as if you are "just not being clear" but on that issue, you are wordy but clear.

Yes I've read your explanations for not moving, and it still boils down to this: you don't want to leave CA - unless Maybe - you know your w will return to the m AND that you'd find a job you like and enjoy there, AND somehow recover the money lost on the house and and and and other conditions you would need precedent to a move...

basically lowering your risk a lot, while asking your w to take all the risk and move back based on your promises to do things better...but back there...which is her underlying complaint.

First of all I never thought you were dense, but if I feel I misrepresented myself I am going to speak up. I hear what you are saying and I know you have constantly repeated it too. At this point in time I am not making any drastic measures. Especially one that would leave me without a home, job and a wife.


You circumvent the points I make by saying - politely and at some length, that I'm wrong or that I "don't understand..."

**Hey, I stopped bringing that up b/c I know it's a lost cause. I figure that the strong chance you had of recon is lessened by ignoring that advice, but it's not eliminated. And I could always be wrong. So I labor on.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make you feel that your advise is not taking into account and or liked. I really do appreciate your engagement with me on all facets of my situation. Please don't let my stubbornness to discourage you. That is certainly not my intention


I'd suggest you watch Esther Perel's TED talk on infidelity. NOT b/c I think she's having a PA but Because it's about more than affairs, it's about why relationships fall apart ...and how some can be restored and on occasion, deepened, after an A. Not all can survive an affair but She has great research on this and more than one book/TED talk.

I will check the video out as soon as I'm done responding here. Thank you!


I have a hunch I have not fleshed out, but will give you now b/c I can't post to you for a few days...just to ponder.

You remind me of someone (NOT my h!!) but a man who spends time away from family for work and then when he's home he's sort of "omnipresent" with his w and kids. Maybe he wants to reassert leadership in the family or compensate for absence, etc.

Like he's making up for lost time I guess. OF course the teenagers and wife have developed their own routine so he's sort of crashing in, or being unintentionally a bit too much "there" with them when he is home. This was okay when the kids were little but now they have their own lives.

So if you feel like you have less control like all LBSers feel, that often makes a man more intrusive and hovering over your wife, which is seen as over bearing and controlling (whereas with returning women I think it comes across as needy & clingy)

----Even if it's all from a distance. Maybe you were kind of in her face when you were home or maybe it was more of the same old distance with your work but

I definitely wouldn't say I was over bearing and who knows maybe she would have preferred that because it would have been more attention then I was giving her. Like I have said before she felt that we were just roommates towards the end before she left, so that tells me I was very detached in her eyes. So you have to excuse the feeling that I should do nothing now and detach even more that it is the answer to mending my marriage. The pattern I have seen out of my wife so far, as I think on it, is that every time I pull away she brings up divorce. Not to mention the fact that she brought up the point that I she noticed that I was detaching from her as if it was more of the same feeling and treatment I was giving when I was home.


NOW, with your loss of access, you are sort of hard core pursuing her - in your head at least.

Majority of my time isn't even thinking about what is happening and for the most part I talk about things because my friends and family are always asking me about things and wanting up dates. Believe it or not they all miss her too.


Hyper analyzing messages and even thinking if she goes to see her brother in GA that a guy you stalked on fb, who lives 3 hours away and to whom she had messaged in the past, might be her true intended target...SIGH...even if you are "right"

you have no control over any of this^^...

Cali, do you have an IC? If not, why not?

Off the top of my head, I don't know any LBSer who has Not seen a therapist or IC or priest, and over the months - the only people I know who did recon, had someone counseling them in their corner. Just saying.

I have considered and did one time call with a DB coach, but it wasn't that productive because I had to spend so much time bring them up to date on my situation and then he had very little to say. Then he was like time up got to go. If I call a DB coach again it's going to be a ton of catch up first which takes up the majority of the time. I really wish that they could at least read your posts on here before engaging with you. It would save a ton of time. It gets to be expensive very fast and I don't have the money to do it. The way I see it is I am going to spend the money I would rather go with my wife to see a DB coach in person regardless of the outcome. It is what it is. She doesn't want to see or even talk about counseling because she thinks it does no good. I don't have the money to do it either, so there you go. I have no problem excepting that for what it is.


Next---

TO ME
and take this with the concern from a DB woman who'll never meet you but who supports you -

The texts about you not sleeping well, are... kind of like a boring form of pressure. And late at night...

I took a chance with that because she seems to care about the idea that I am losing sleep over things. Not getting sleep is also a very big part of her life and is a constant thing to her. I thought perhaps I was showing empathy for her real issues. It's as simple as that, but OK it's boring and I get that.


seems like You are standing around wanting to talk to her without anything of great interest to tell her. How is that productive at all? "Some contact is better than no contact" is Not necessarily true.

Why doesn't that just prove either how little you two have to say of importance to each other (no deep connection) or how little you have in common?

If you are backing off of emotional disclosures to avoid pursuing her, that's totally fine.
If she only says blah blah blah talk, tell her to get a good night's sleep and catch up later.


IF SHE opens up A LOT and seems interested in how you feel about something, then for God's sake open up and make yourself vulnerable without expectation of her...


But if you are just shooting the breeze, answer by making it interesting and real. Not necessarily "fascinating" ...(I mean, don't force this but give it some thought)

I'm guessing you experience things in the day, at work or socially. So you must have specifics to say (not just "had a good day, how about you?" - which is both boring and putting the onus of the conversation on her)

but something like "Oh, major weirdness today! Today Boss lost his temper at manager, and manager went whacko on him- I thought I'd need to duck" // OR "so it turns out manager was shagging his partner's wife and got caught, what a %#$*..."

OR "bummer, layoffs coming, lots of tension at office, I'm a little nervous",

/new product out and stock is skyrocketing, feels exciting" "got a nice review today and looks like I may get a bonus/promotion so feeling a little proud" -

hey - things do happen in your day, right? SHARE that and when it makes sense, share how you feel about it.

This ^^way, you are sharing your day to day life -when of interest, and you are disclosing your reactions AND it is all without R pressure~. Make sense?

When the time comes, you can share your emotions about the m and your role - specifically, not generally "do better/be more loving" that is too vague, which I know I've said here a few times to you.


Talking of my work seems counter productive because that was a soar spot for her and I lot of the times talking about things that went on during my day make her feel pressured. Talking about the things Im doing in the house, like moving into her spaces and removing things of her and about us. People visiting that are concerned about her. Going to the gym, which is also a soar spot for her. It honestly seems like my day to day activities will make her feel pressured. This is tricky it seems, but you make it sound so easy and I wish it was. I try to talk to her about her day to day things, but it's like pulling teeth at times. We usually start out pretty slow, but do eventually get to talking naturally.


I suggest you lay off on how well you know her (= "I'm so good for you, better than anyone else and MAYBE I know you better than you know yourself... and thought I'd mention it again" or "You need me and I thought I'd mention it...in a slightly different way...again")

This was based off of advice I read from this site and others. Maybe I try to hard to implement the advice. What I feel like doing the most is just stopping everything. I last text her over a week ago, which I posted up and we had pretty good conversation going and then I cut off texting her for over a week and then I said HI to her a couple nights ago and never got a response for me. So do I keep the, what seems, heathly texting back and forth going on or just stop and only text her when she texts me. The last time I did that I get a text telling me sorry for doing it this way, but divorce papers are on the way.


What's with telling her how you can't sleep either on the exact same nights (um, no it's not true and she knows that) plus you never disclose why...

do you have any specific interesting questions for her?

If You have had racing thoughts (most of us do in these situations), tell her one thing that helped you - and btw mindfulness and meditation are Not just for Southern Californians anymore.

When it's not the middle of the night, Ask her about work/family/school/friends or a specific thing of interest to her...or you. Places she's been, things she joined, old stomping grounds, etc. It's not all about you or people who are for/against the m.

Heck, I'm in my old stomping grounds now. My friends are supportive of my happiness in my new life OR if h and i recon, which I know some want. -But they don't have all the info-
Our loves ones do not want to see us in pain.

The DB books talk about this^^ - though I think they overstate one thing.

If You or your w are cycling thru the same old complaints to the same people, yes she may get pushed to get out of the m just b/c the recipient is frustrated hearing the same old, and has no idea what else to say.


But generally, people are trying to help. Don't worry about what you cannot control, which is most of this.

Back to you, Bring something to the table, man. I know you have it in you.

I guess that's the problem I can't seem to bring anything to the table, maybe I should just stop trying. I have told her I don't want a divorce and I think we should work things out, so I think maybe I should just lay off with everything a give her what she wants. The issue I have had with that every time I think of it is that I feels like giving up and I don't want to be the one who ultimately gives into the divorce.


Now it's late for ME and I have to get ready for a trip.

Sorry this was so long winded. (Don't send it to your wife!)

Thank you again for always supporting me even when
I am sure I am maddening to you. I don't ever mind long winded so type all you like. Enjoy your trip and I hope to talk to you more when you get back. I certainly won't send it to my wife and I really wish that would have never happened it really bothered me that it did. I don't see anymore of a reason to have to email my mother about it anymore.

[Cali08]

I have decided to go see my wife. I just booked a flight and I will be there this Thursday. This is something that she will not expect and I'm going to surprise her by just showing up. I will be staying with a buddy of mine, so it's not like I'm crashing her parents house. After reading some more of the DR book today I decided that I'm going to do the exact opposite of what I have been doing with now fear about it making things worse.

I also decided not to tell my wife before hand either. After a very good discussion with a 75 years lady who is a family friend I decided it's best not to say anything and actually surprise my wife that way she won't have time to have any of her friends and family to whisper in her ear about the situation. I am going to take the initiative and go with what my gut has been telling me to do. I know my wife and myself best and I think this needs to happen for both of us. A face to face is long over due. My plan is to go and enjoy our time together and talk about the relationship too, although I want to restrict it to a short time of 30 min or less.

The family friend who I just run into by chance to day at the supermarket has been married for over 55 years and is only not married because her husband died recently. She had a lot of great advice for me and she actually mentioned a lot of things mentioned here, almost like she had been here before. She is in agreement with me on making the move to go see my wife. I know a lot of you probably think this is suicide, but I really don't think so. I really believe deep down that my wife needs me to show her that I care enough to come after her. This is not in a needy crazy pursuing way either, because I know that is being thought.

I need to show her that she is important enough to spend the time and money to come see her and take action and make that decision. I am not doing this in an expectation that she is going to come back with me in the least. All I want is to spend time with my wife and just be around her.

[Ginger1]

Oh my.

You are doing this for YOU, not her. You are trying to control the situation. YOU think your wife needs this?

No, YOU need it. She is going to see this as selfish controlling and manipulative rather than you being her knight in shining armour spending money on a plane ticket. She is going to see right through all of this and it is not going ot go how you expect.

YOU think you will go there, enjoy some time with her and have R talks and limit their times? Well, there is only one person making this plan, but it takes two to make that happen and you are having no consideration for the other half of this.

You think this needs to happen for the both you but she doesn't even get a say? You really think this is going to be met with posisitivity?

I don't want to sound mean, but this is a very transparent selfish move. It has everything to do about you and no consideration for her. Wayward wives do not take kindly to that.

[Coconut]

Cali, I agree with Ginger, but I completely understand the feeling that sometimes you have to do what you have to do.. Unfortunately we all feel our situation is different, that we and our spouses R is different, that we know that something will help even when everyone else is warning us about it. You mentioned that we all are going to think it's a bad idea, so you somewhat understand the risks, so I'm not going to harp on it.

I hope that you share what your real expectations are, what do you envision her doing/saying when she finds out your in town, how do you think spending time together is going to work (go to dinner, spend a day together somewhere, etc), and what you think the outcome will be, as far as how her seeing you is going to bring you closer to your goal. And then let us know how things go when you get back.

I wish you the best, I really do, but I would suggest not to make your expectations to high. I personally don't think she is going to happy about you just showing up.

[leahsue]

Cali,
I kind of agree with the others above, but a little part of me struggles with doing the same thing you are doing, so I'm SO going to be watching to see how this goes for you. Please, either way, let us know. Right now I'm so much more detached from my H and the outcome of our M, that I'm not tempted at all to surprise visit him 1000 miles away, but I have seriously considered it on occasion, when I just didn't think I could live in limbo any more. I've even had some of my loved ones advise me to do it, although my IC said DO NOT just show up unannounced.

I will be praying for you to have no expectations, the strength and grace you need if things go badly, and the courage to truly just admit defeat if that happens and escape with your head held high and your dignity intact. BUT, things could also go great! Please, please, update!
And best of luck. I've followed you from the beginning and I've seen your struggle. I know you'll be fine either way.

[AnotherStander]

I have decided to go see my wife.

Oh boy. Well I have to say, I agree with Ginger 100%. You're going there filled with expectations of a break-through, but it is not going to happen. Your W is very likely to react negatively to a "surprise" visit from you, the person she wants to see least in the world right now. I spot-read through your thread and see this repeating pattern of you trying to come up with reasons to reach out to your W and people telling you not to and why. So here you go again. This is "more of the same" behavior. It hasn't worked, but you keep trying it hoping for different results. DO A 180!!!!!

This is something that she will not expect and I'm going to surprise her by just showing up.

And you think this will be a "good" surprise for her? Because I cannot imagine it being anything but horrible to her. And I really do mean horrible, like she will be tremendously upset and maybe even a little scared. She thinks she finally has time and space from you and -poof- you just show up on her doorstep without notice. How can that possibly be good?

After reading some more of the DR book today I decided that I'm going to do the exact opposite of what I have been doing with now fear about it making things worse.

YOU ARE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING YOU'VE BEEN DOING SINCE YOU GOT HERE!!!!

I am going to take the initiative and go with what my gut has been telling me to do.

If you take nothing else away from reading DB you should take this- your gut instincts are completely wrong. DBing is hard work because it is COUNTER-INTUITIVE.

I really believe deep down that my wife needs me to show her that I care enough to come after her. This is not in a needy crazy pursuing way either, because I know that is being thought.

That's exactly what it is. Full blown pursuit.

I need to show her that she is important enough to spend the time and money to come see her and take action and make that decision.

No. You need to show her that you respect her enough to give her the time and space she wants.

All I want is to spend time with my wife and just be around her.

I understand that sentiment. But you really need to try and understand the fact that legal papers aside, she is not your W anymore. She's not your GF, your soulmate, your anything. She is severing ties with you. This isn't Hollywood and she's not going to be impressed that you invested time and money in a trip to come see her and ride off into the sunset with you in a convertible. She is going to be ANGRY, SCARED, and more sure than ever that D is the answer.

[AnotherStander]

Here are some brilliant words from 25 posted to you last week, pleas take them to heart:

"Please Cali, Stop trying to manipulate the outcome. You cannot force her back into your arms with words, no matter how correctly they are expressed, or by whom, or by how many, but you sure can push her away."

[Cali08]

WOW!! No one has been responding to my posts at all until this one. For your information this is a 180 from what I have been doing, which is sitting on my butt at home and hardly communicating with her. I said I have no expectations of it, but me saying that obviously means nothing. Why is it that I can say one thing and everyone is fine and believes what I am saying, but when I say something else I don't actually mean it? Come on, when I say I don't have expectations of the outcome I really don't. I don't think in the least that this is going to change things drastically at all, but it's going change up what I have been doing completely.

She doesn't think I have been pursuing her in the least. I know this because I read her text message conversation with my buddies wife finally and she really opened up to her. It's a matter of fact that she talked specifically about the fact that I talk to her so sparingly now. She thinks that I put everything before her and the last thing she will expect is me showing up to see her. I know this kind of action would have thrilled her months ago and before she left. In the text messages I read she said that I made it clear that I didn't want to be home with her. Going to see her will show her that I do want to be around her. She thinks that what happened in our relationship was a %100 of what I could give to her and it absolutely isn't. Showing up will show her more effort and not less.

She actually repeated what I have said here that I loved her, but not in the way the she wanted and needed to be loved. Going to see her is a 180, in her eyes and what I read and my buddies wife read from her text was that I don't put her first. She comes across as it being bad that I am not even trying to get her back, so this is what I am going to do. Sometimes advice, even if it usually good advice, which I think it all is on this forum, can bite you in the butt. Knowing my wife and the things that made her happy, going to see her, even if she is cold to me, will mean something to her. If she see's my effort in coming to see her as a horrible act of selfishness then so be it. The fact of the matter is that what I would do if I was only thinking of myself is I wouldn't spend the money to go see her and that is a fact because that is how I feel about it. I would stay home and enjoy my time there before I had to go out on the road again. I'm leaving in one day to go see her because that was the ticket I could afford and coming home the night before I fly back out on the road again. The selfish me would put the fact that I just got home and I have things to do before I go out on the road again so I don't have time to go see my wife period.

[Cali08]

Here are some brilliant words from 25 posted to you last week, pleas take them to heart:

"Please Cali, Stop trying to manipulate the outcome. You cannot force her back into your arms with words, no matter how correctly they are expressed, or by whom, or by how many, but you sure can push her away."

This isn't words, this is action I'm taking that is completely different then what I have been doing. Trust me I am not going to pressure her. Like I said I am staying with a goof friend of mine and I am prepared to spend the whole time with him if she can't stand the site of me. My wife says she still loves me and that means a lot.

As I typed this something occurred to me. Does anyone ever think about there being some kind of rhythm to the whole DBing thing. Do or when certain things happen then other things work better. For instance when someone pursues you then suddenly stop by doing the last resort technique, does that make it a more powerful tool.

When I read about the 180's it doesn't say what others think is a 180 it says do what you think is completely different. The way I have been handling the whole situation and dealing with it is the complete opposite of taking my time to go see my wife. This is what I know personally deep down. I found it much easier to just pull back and do very little and I know that is because I am being selfish about it.