Went out with H and the boys. Not for me or for H but for my oldest. He wouldn't go unless I went.
It was pretty hard for me afterwards. In the moment I was okay but when I came home I found myself extremely sad that H could not want this anymore. That he saw me so terribly or hated me so much that he is okay with these things not being in his future.
He stayed the night last night. I didn't act on any of these feelings. The baby was more irritable than normal for his 1am witching hour. H just sat on the couch while I was in the room. I didn't bring him to him last night and he didn't come in. I did go out there and ask him to wake me up in 30 minutes if I fell asleep because I was holding the baby.
H got prequalified for his mortgage. So scary that he continues to tell me he doe t have the money to do anything. I don't understand the lying like he's just taking space but in reality he's planning his whole new life.
I'm off to school today. I want to feel better. How do people let go? How do you stop looking at someone and feeling all the feelings you have felt for them the last 13 years. How do you stop looking at them and just wanting to scream can't we figure this out? Look at our beautiful family.
Last edited by Cadet; 06/22/1701:25 AM. Reason: fix link
Why are you so convinced it is you that is causing him to make this decision?
This man is not happy with himself.
let me ask you, do YOU think you were such a horrible wife or person that he HAD to do this?
I see this as a man who wants no true responsibility in his life. I honestly think he is freaking about about being a dad to 3 kids which means lots of sacrifices on his part. No working at all hours, concerts, trips....... he is really struggling with his responsibilities.
You can own your side of the street, but you can't own his.
Yeah I agree with Ginger. He sounds like he's starting a MLC and wants to escape his life full of responsibilities. It always makes me a little angry to hear about so-called men walking out on their wives and new babies like this, but it certainly happens a lot. I guess some men imagine marriage to be dinner waiting on the table every evening followed by sex and a backrub as they go to sleep? These guys need to man-up and own their responsibilities instead of storming out and leaving a path of wreckage in their wake. But I digress...
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I want to feel better. How do people let go? How do you stop looking at someone and feeling all the feelings you have felt for them the last 13 years. How do you stop looking at them and just wanting to scream can't we figure this out? Look at our beautiful family.
Of course you want to feel better!! Who would ever wish this misery on themselves? It's awful! But just like grieving the loss of a loved one, recovery takes time. How much time varies from person-to-person, but it's usually a lot longer than we hope or expect. In my case I thought I was good after about a year, but looking back I think it was more like 2 years to fully recover. And really, like losing a loved one you never really "fully recover" from it. You just learn how to live with it and move on. But at first your goal is to just get through one day. And if that sounds like too much, then just get through the next hour. Don't spend time spinning on the future right now, just concentrate on here and now and getting through it a little at a time.
Because he tells me that it's me... that he has tried so hard and he just can't be happy with me.
So Until I have concrete proof of OW I just leave it be? And Train - I think I remember saying you went with your H and did things together with the kids.
Do I continue to do those things? He hasn't made a schedule or anything do I just continue to let him dictate when he comes by?
I feel so lost on what I should be doing or what my plan of action is ... i feel like the clock is ticking on him buying a house
T0, on my way to work and don't have much time but wanted to know we're all here rooting for you.
Let go of the ticking clock on the house purchase idea. This is totally focused on him, his actions, his choices, etc. As long as you focus on that you will end up trying to control his behavior which won't work for either of you. It will drive him further and further away and it will hurt you more and more.
You really have to get that he is his own person and gets to make his own choices, and you can LET HIM. In exchange, you are your own person and you get to make your own choices. Do you want to choose to be a person that tries to control her spouse (either through begging/pleading or anger/confrontation)? Or do you want to be the person that says to herself, "well, that [censored], guess I will take care of myself and baby and start rebuilding my life without WAH"?
The reason I am against confrontation is I don't see any way it is not coming from a place of controlling at this moment. And if you take out the goal of control, there really isn't much to say to WAH at all anymore, is there? Sure, in a week or two maybe if things are calm you can piece out a schedule. But for today there's not a lot to say.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I think I remember saying you went with your H and did things together with the kids. Do I continue to do those things? A couple/few times, yes, I did. I looked at those times as opportunities to show H the changes that I had made in myself - namely, that I was taking better care of myself without him than I ever did when I was with him. These are the times when I challenged myself to become the OW to the OW; I worked super-hard to remove any stress or pressure, not only to accommodate my H but because this is the person I really wanted to strive to be ... or at least improve in those ways. (FTR, those changes have stuck; things are FAR less stressful around the house now because I don't let things get to me - read: have to control everything around me - like I used to.)
Just as importantly (if not more important) were the times when I declined H's invitations to join him and the kids. And it was so gratifying when I told H with a sweet, mysterious smile on my face: "no thanks; I have plans." This would be the moment when you want to look and smell your very best ... maybe have a fresh manicure and a new pair of earrings in. I can't stress enough the confidence-boost that a new hair cut/style can give! I don't care how many layers of makeup you have to throw on to conceal those bags under your eyes from nights of crying and no sleep, this is the time to sparkle and shine!
To be honest, the thought certainly occurred to me that I was doing all this ^^^ to manipulate him. But the true consequence, as intended, ended up being a boost to MY self-confidence and PMA. I felt better, stronger, more capable and better poised to take on the world ... all by myself.
Someone else suggested that you hold-off on going places with H and the kids until you're mentally/emotionally prepared. I agree with that to an extent, but I tend to think it would take too long to be truly "prepared," and you do want/need those opportunities now. Just make sure you're prepared to put on some MAJOR game face if you go. Drop your victim mentality. Drop your expectations.
i feel like the clock is ticking on him buying a house Possibly. But you can't allow this to be a benchmark for you.
Stop worrying about H's next move ... and start planning YOURS.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
The house thing isn't a control issue for me... as much as it is the permanent decision of him leaving me behind.
I don't really care about his purchases as he bought the motorcycle without involving me. He pretty much gets to do what he wants comes and goes as he pleases even before BD.
How do I save my M? What am I supposed to do? I feel so lost ... part of me wants to shake him and say what are you doing we have this beaitudo family. Why aren't we enough ??? The other part of me wants to say I know what you've been doing I know what you're up to please don't insult my intelligence and walk away.
We all blame ourselves in the beginning. And I agree with every one here. It is not you. Regardless of if there is another woman, his behavior is wrong. Really wrong. Really, really, really wrong. No mother or child should ever have to go through this.
And its hard to control our emotions and reactions to those behaviors. Because his behaviors affect you and your children. I don't feel like you are controlling. (I do not feel like I was controlling by taking my ex husband to court for not paying child support so that he can spend resources on what I later learned was drugs) Only that you are like that child pointing out the truth from the story "the emperors new clothes".
But no matter what we say or do, people that want to behave badly can and do. We can not appeal to them because they are in this really sick, distorted sense of denial. But What actions right now will protect you? What actions can you make that will make your life easier? That's really all you can do right now. You need to put yourself and your children first and forget about trying to save your marriage. You can still love him, but you need to love your self more. And that means recognizing some one else's bad behaviors torwards you and not continually accepting them.
Walkaways tend to be extremely selfish. If they want back, they will make it happen. There is nothing you can do or not do. They need to want it. So again, protect yourself right now.
Why do you want to save this marriage? Many posters on here struggle with piecing and forgiveness for the first time because they fear their walkaways will do this again in the future. Your walkaway is doing it again. You have been through this before.
I think in the beginning, when we are left it is natural to want what we perceive is being taken away from us. But have you really sat down and reflected whether this is something you actually want? Or is it the panic, the rejection, the feelings of not being good enough that are at work?
You have so much going for you. You are a very loving wife and person. You are young, you have three healthy children, intelligence and a great career.
He does not deserve you. And we need to stop romantacising the walkaway in the name of personal growth. It is self flagellation.
Thank you everyone for your words. It really makes me feel better just getting to read advice from each and every one of you.
I'm sitting in my car pumping in the parking lot of the office #reallif
I cycle through good and bad days.
I want to rip his head off for leaving us. I sit here and think. You chose to come back you cried begged pleaded took all my family out to dinner individually to apologize. You cried cried and cried went to counseling I'll never do this again blah blah ilve learned the grass isn't greener. I never want to lose you and the kids. All for what. To bring another innocent life into this to leave AGAIN
NO MATTER WHAT - I know. I don't deserve to be left RIGHT NOW. The baby screamed bloody murder. I told H this is a lot to do alone every night. He didn't say anything. He knows it but he doesn't CARE to be here to help like a man.
Like my dad said - he and H spent So much time talking when he came back. He told H not to come back he said he knew he would do it again. Everyone could be okay if he stuck around for 6 months or so til the baby was older I finished school and he could maybe hold his head saying he made an effort but it just wasn't there.
I have my faults. I know I do. But at the end of the day and 13 years together and giving birth to Our 3 kids I don't deserve to be left to do this alone. Oh great he's giving me money - he thinks that makes it okay.
I have to remind myself of this because it's not what a man husband or father does. People are unhappy everyday. People go through stuff regularly. It doesn't mean you walk out.
The most frustrating part is he's doing so much damage and hurting everyone without a care in the world and I truly believe one day he will regret it and by that point it will be too late.
You don't buy someone an expensive truck as a surprise, buy property together, hire an architect to draw plans for our future home and plan to have a baby when you're unhappy. And that is within 12 months from now so it's not like things have been bad for a long time unless he did all of those things out of lies which I don't believe.
How do you go from kissing me saying ILY holding my hand to just keavifnless than 12 hours later.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Who is he. Who have I been sharif my life with. I feel so betrayed. I let him back in my life and face him 100 % of myself without looking back just to be hurt all over again.
Why am I not good enough. How can he look at me and think his life will be better without me. How can he care so little for me to see me so hurt and not want to make it better or at least stop hurting me
It's what he's getting from OW. Plain and simple. That's the answer to "how." (FWIW I agree with you that it doesn't sound physical; I personally think that's what has stopped him from committing to leave the past couple months. In my experience, a man needs to have it all ... including, in fact *especially*, sex ... to ditch his family. I don't think your H necessarily wanted to physically leave. I feel he was on the fence and the stress from all the R talks/expectations just pushed him over the edge. (Please don't think I mean that like it's your "fault.") I'd bet he's questioning it all, and a lot might depend on the level of commitment of the OW/boss's daughter.
I would make an educated guess that at least 95 percent of the people who end up here are dealing with affairs, sometimes without even realizing it. It's rare for couples to just grow apart over time. Affairs cause similar effects as drugs on a person's mind, too. Google it. That's one reason we can't process our spouses' decisions when they're involved in an affair: it would be like understanding a drug addict who chooses drugs over family.
And just to be clear, I don't think you should "confront" your H about potential-OW or his lying. I think you should make decisions for you and your family, assuming that he *is* having, at the very least, an EA with this woman, and he is lying. Because, well, it's pretty clear that he *is*.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Who is he. Who have I been sharif my life with.
I don't think you will be able to wrap your head around it. As much as I have tried to explain WW's to the hurting H, it still is beyond their belief and understanding of what happened to the person they fell in love with and married.
It probably will do no good for me to tell you to stop beating up yourself and taking the responsibility for how your H feels. Naturally, you think it must be b/c you aren't good enough and don't measure up to what he wants..........but that does not mean it is true facts. Speaking from the VP of a wayward spouse, I will admit that most waywards blame their feelings and the situation on their spouse. It's b/c the wayward is messed up............not their spouse! Can you accept that your H has a problem? Emotionally, mentally, or morally.......he has a problem and he is choosing to exit this M b/c he sees it as fix-all answer to making him feel better.
You may never know the true reason that started this stuff again. It would probably require him digging deeper and admitting things he doesn't want to face about himself. I don't really think he hates you, but he sees this new life as an easier option. One day he will wake up and realize he did not opt for a better or easier life. When he is the problem, he will repeat the same actions in his new life.
You ask what can you do to save your M. We are trying to tell you, but your emotions are too raw to accept it. There is no action you can do to him that will stop him from going through with his plan. You have to let him go. Drop the rope. That is the option you have left to save your marriage. But ((TO)), you are the one who doesn't want to do what we are saying. You want to do something else. At this point, dropping the rope is the only thing that stands a chance in swaying his heart.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Um no. The EA and his stupidity - and his ego - pushed him away.
And who wants a H in the house who is lying about dang near *everything* anyway?! There was no way I could have done it. That's why, as soon as my H shut the door behind him, the locks were changed.
You are still dealing with a LOT of hormones right now, too, T. And I have to believe that's one reason you are clinging so hard to the idea of keeping H around. It's normal, just after you've had a baby, to want an intact family.
But I know this M isn't what you want. And I know you know that you and the boys deserve better.
I truly mean this: the best thing you can do to fight for your M is to not fight at all. You've held that rope so tight for so long that if/when you drop it, H is gonna notice. Which is exactly what needs to be happening.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I know it's mostly this baby that makes me fight so hard. Because I don't want him never growing up knowing what his family together means. Not having all the memories my boys have. I know my hormones are still crazy. I am having hot flashes like crazy then cold anger then crying. One minute wanting to beg him to come back then the next wishing I never met him haha.
What does dropping the rope look like? I struggle between indifference vs coming off like a bitch that he thinks is controlling and punishing him. Last time he acted out and stopped giving me money once I started enforcing boundaries. It was a couple months of hell from him.
I already don't call or text. I only respond to kid messages. When he said goodnight and thanked me for having the boys call I don't respond.
I haven't asked him to do anything or asked about the future but I'm sure I'm radiating wanting him back. I remember Thornton I believe telling me last time that a man can tell when the woman is still pining for him even without saying a word
I've read the advice often to treat him as you would a friendly neighbor or acquaintance, and that works for me. Be cheerful and brief, and don't talk about anything too 'deep'. Granted, I don't have small children, let alone a baby, to communicate about. I imagine that makes it harder. The main thing is, don't get yourself too caught up in their responses, and don't let their responses run your life.
Me: 40 H:42 M 13 yrs, T 15yrs SD19, D18, SS15 BD: 3/4/17 - ILYBNILWY He moved out: 4/3/17
I think dropping the rope, in many ways, is probably seen differently by many people, depending a lot on where they are on their journey.
To me, it's more of an action than a feeling.
Detachment, on the other hand, is a feeling. You don't get that until later.
Dropping the rope is what you do in the meantime. It's letting your H go do whatever his little selfish heart desires while YOU protect YOU. Block his number for a few hours each day. Stop seeing yourself as a victim of his bad behavior, and start finding *opportunities* in the madness.
If I could turn back the hands of time to 2014, I would have had even MORE fun! I would have told myself to join an all-women, kicka$s, boot-camp style exercise group (which I recently did and cannot. get. enough. of. it., but I totally should have done it back then to start feeling better about myself and to develop another community of supportive, encouraging female friends to lift me up and push me when I most needed it). That week-long beach trip I took alone with the kids? I would try to find ways to take more of them. Even just weekend trips. I would have used my "babysitters" more, and I would have gone out to TRY to laugh with my girlfriends. Or even cry at a good, sappy movie. I should have gone to the club and cut a rug at least once. I would take that zip-line adventure I was researching. And I would take that freaking pottery class I've always wanted to take!
But, alas, I couldn't squeeze ALL that fun in because H was noticing just the *little bit* of fun I was having and decided he wanted to come back and be a part of it!
I know it's harder with a baby and while you're working and in school. I was there in 2006, too, remember? I've gotchu, girl. I'm right there with you in as many ways as I can be.
But, T, you CAN do this. I know you can. Things are going to work out. I know you don't believe me, but they WILL. In a year from now ... just you wait ... you'll see! You'll be a different person and will look back and wonder why you fretted so.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
The house thing isn't a control issue for me... as much as it is the permanent decision of him leaving me behind.
It's not permanent, though. Houses can be sold, tenants can be found to live in them and pay the mortgage... It's only in your head that this is The End and that's why it's so scary. Nothing is permanent in life except for death.
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How do I save my M? What am I supposed to do?
The exact opposite of what your instincts are screaming at you to do.
You are supposed to do nothing. You are supposed to let H go, knowing that the space he seeks is possibly just what is needed for him to process things in a way that don't involve blaming you for his unhappiness.
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I feel so lost ... part of me wants to shake him and say what are you doing we have this beaitudo family.
I don't know how to say this in a way that isn't going to hurt, so I'll just say it. He's still the father to those beautiful kids and he still has a beautiful family, even if he's not with you. Your M is the glue to that family and if he's leaving it, then the kiddos and you will still be a family and the kiddos and him will still be a family. But this idea that the family is always 5 people with you and the kids as a package deal, and he's leaving the kids because he's leaving you, is false.
I mean, look at divorced families. Some get along and say they're "still a family" but conditions have to be right for that. More commonly the parents move on and welcome new spouses and - maybe - new kids, and that's the new family unit.
Unfortunately, families do divide. They aren't the end all be all.
Do your best not to lump yourself in with your kids. Parenting discussions/communications should be brief, informative, and focused solely on the kids. Don't lump yourself in because H will just see that as pressure, and it may cause him to back off from the kids.
Most of all, this man has three kids. Don't shield him from that reality. The more you can do to show him what it will be like to be the single divorced dad to 3 kids, the better chance you have of that not coming to fruition.
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Why aren't we enough ???
T0, this is from your own childhood. Whatever is driving you to fear that you aren't enough and you aren't worthy of love is driving how you are reacting to this situation.
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The other part of me wants to say I know what you've been doing I know what you're up to please don't insult my intelligence and walk away.
This is better, but until you could say something like that with a genuine smile on your face and without any sarcasm or venom, you should not say it.
T0, you are a hardcore anxious pursuer. Your H is a distancer. You are not the same person. You are not enmeshed and exactly alike. What feels like the source of survival to you feels like suffocation to him. He's in crisis mode and he naturally wants space. He is thinking of buying a house because that is something he can control. That's why it's attractive to him.
If you do not give him space, your marriage will end. If you do not learn how to thrive in that space and use it to refocus on you and enjoying your life, man or no man, your marriage will end. If you do not get a handle on your anxiety that causes you to act out in ways that work against your cause, your marriage will end.
T0, we are not powerless because we are more than our emotions and our insecurities. You are more than those things. What can you do to feel more in control of yourself and not so buffeted about (recognizing that you're still in shock and are - very understandably - grieving)?
Do you see a counselor about your anxiety? If not, would you? Have you tried things like yoga and meditation, things that help us understand that mind, body, and reality are all different things that we have a degree of control over?
I wasn't around years ago, but I took a peek at some of your threads near the time of R from the first time around, and you were doing SO well. You knew you were a whole and worthy person with or without H. You were busy and doing things you wanted to do. You did it once and you can do it again.
Train - I started going to the gym this week. I noticed a drop in my supply though which I know can happen so I have to ease back into working out. I swear I am not as emotionally unstable as I sound here. I vent here and to my mom...
Today was a good day. I hope that means tomorrow will be too. The physician I'm working with knows I have a newborn so he signs me off for the full day and I'm usually out of the office by 3 if not earlier. Monday he gave me the whole day off! The manager said he likes to reward the people that work hard and show an interest in learning. I am thankful I decided to go back to school regardless of where this goes because I will have a good career to support the life I want to give my boys.
As far as going out and doing stuff. Since I went with the boys last night I rescheduled with my girlfriend for Saturday which works better anyway. Sunday my dad and I are taking the boys on the boat. Monday Tuesday Thursday is school and Wednesday I'm taking the boys on a local train that takes us into the city with some of my friends and their kids. We also have theme park passes so my dad said he would watch the baby next weekend so I can take the boys alone. Florida is so hot for the baby to be out all day.
I'm working o dropping the rope .. I think that action will come before detachment.
I just have to figure out to balance being a neighbor, enforcing boundaries but not being a bitch lol
He sent me a text today asking how my day was. Then sent another text asking how the boys were. I haven't replied yet. I'm too busy
Cadence - I don't know why my anxiety is so bad. My C thinks because like PTSD of last time... I'm not sure. I was never this anxious before. But I can feel myself spinning. I try to post here or reach out to my mom so I don't knew jerk and say something or do something out of emotions.
Ha if he only knew I was breastfeeding doing laundry and cleaning puke off my clothes lol
It's super frustrating he's going to ask me about my day like he cares after being on the phone with the realtor since he got preapproved yesterday. It's just because he's in a good mood he's going to get his house now.
I just replied 'the boys are good' he replied cool and that he was with my uncle stopping at a friends house then going for dinner. I didn't respond.
I don't know if you remember the story, but when I was snooping/following H's activities, I saw that - after weeks of lying to me - he booked a hotel room for two.
I bought a bouquet of hideously redneck flowers and a "best wishes" card, signed it "your wife," and dropped it all off at the hotel "concierge", telling them I had been the couple's matchmaker and just wanted to leave my well-wishes.
Oh boy, did I hear about that one! Lol!
I'm all about you coming up with a discreet wink-wink way to let H know that you know about the new mortgage. But YOU have to be in the proper mindset to pull it off. And it must come from a place of strength - almost like you already know it's going to eventually be a bust - and not a place of desperation or being a victim.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Cadence - I don't know why my anxiety is so bad. My C thinks because like PTSD of last time... I'm not sure. I was never this anxious before. But I can feel myself spinning. I try to post here or reach out to my mom so I don't knew jerk and say something or do something out of emotions.
It could be PTSD. You've also just endured a long "will he/won't he" waiting game, which probably wore you out more than you know. Maybe also your hormones haven't leveled out after the baby?
I'm really happy to hear that you've venting here instead of acting out. Maybe so we're less worried include that disclaimer next time.
If you haven't ever tried meditation, I really recommend it. It might take some time to really "get it", but the practice of trying to meditate is so helpful. It forces you to redirect your thoughts and not judge yourself too harshly for having them.
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I will get back to that person in 2014. I promise
Seeing that you typed that made my day. Seriously.
You know you can do it, T0. You've birthed 3 babies, you're an amazing mom, you are in grad school and are a smarty pants. Find your mojo, girl.
At the same time, we recognize that you're grieving. It's okay if you want to feel bad for yourself as long as you have plans to emerge like a phoenix. Wallow if you need to. Just try not to get stuck.
I'm further along than you (I know you've been enduring for a while, but I just mean in H moving out). I was a hot mess for awhile. I'm just getting back on track from quite an extensive "eat my feelings" phase. I'm finally starting to emerge from my funk. I noticed walking around the grocery store that guys were checking me out, and I fully believe it's because my feelings about myself are showing. My shoulders are back, my head is high, I'm quick to smile, and those heels I was wearing didn't hurt either. I knew if H saw me walking around he'd have to bite his fist, because I am well on the way to getting myself back to the gal I was when we met.
I've still got it. You do, too, T0.
I wasn't aware that the last S was in 2014! That was the last time H and I were apart, too. It's like it's cyclical in a 2-3 year cycle. Hm.
I think dropping the rope, in many ways, is probably seen differently by many people, depending a lot on where they are on their journey.
You may be right. For me, I have a mental image of two teams pulling the rope. Between the two teams is a large ditch covered by slimy mud. The object of the game to the team who pulls the other team into the slimy mud will be the winners.
I have mostly seen adults participate and they have strategically placed the stong muscled men in certain areas, and the weaker women in other places. One rope is stretch over the muddy ditch. When the signal to begins is sounded, all these muscled guys go into full force. When each time had balanced amount of muscle guys, they can almost be at stand still pulling on each end of the rope.
The funny part I have witnessed is when one team suddenly and without warning drop their end of the drop. The other head lunges head first in the muddy slime. They are a little stunned at what's happened, but the other team it not paying them any attention. They could get mad, call foul playing, or whatever.........but they don't see regret the other team, nobody is looking back to see what happened after the dropped their end of the drop.
In a sense, you've go to drop that rope you has lassoed around H. You are pulling back kicking & screaming. If you suddenly let go of the rope, I bet they would stumble head long.......b/c they are so use to the tug of war between you. The important part here, is that you should not be seen looking back at the losing team. You have immediately become interested in something else. Do you see how this can be applied to you and H?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well I may have made an errror tonight. H called. He never showed up to see the boys. He lied about where he was. Then brought up some [censored] about having no money.
I'm sure tonight wasn't the night but I said H do g insult my intelligence. We both know that's not the truth. I said you need to start being honest with me.
He went on asking what I was talking about. I left it vague and just said something along the lines of a house. He proceeded to say he didn't have the money blah blah I don't even remember everything he said. I said again I'm not getting into this just letting you know I won't tolerate any lying.
Then he started to go on about how he just needs space just a week or two to decide what he wants. That he needed a break from us always talking about it. That he's not saying it's going to work out we may need to just make a schedule for the kids. I didn't really say much. He went on that there was too much arguing. He was unhappy. I validated where I could but didn't feel like I should validating someone that's lying. So I said I'm sorry you felt you needed to leave to get space.
The conversation went on longer than it should and I sat quiet most of the time. H even said hello a few times. I said yes I'm here just listening.
Basically he just said he needs space he can't give any answers. I said I'm not asking for answers. I have only asked for you to share the parental responsibility and help out as a dad and nothing more. The only other thing I'm asking is for honesty.
He said he was going to spend the night tomorrow night and 'possibly' the weeekend.
I wanted to say no it's not a possibly. We aren't a doormat. But I didn't want the conversation to take a wrong turn so I left it be and got off the phone.
I don't. Believe a word he says. Him Saying he needs space and just needed two weeks is a lie. Because then he said well at the end of the two weeks I may decide this isn't going to work and we need to go our separate ways. I'm just not sure. That's why I had to get away so I could make a clear decision that I will live with for the rest of my life. I didn't want to say I'm done while we were arguing. I want to know I'm done when things are calm between us so I know it's the right decision. I just said okay.
Oh and he heard my car on when I was on the phone. He asked where I was. If I was in the car. I said yes. Then he said where are you. I said out why. He said oh just wondering I could barely hear you. He said when will you be home. I said later. Not sure. He said oh ok I was just wondering so I could talk to the boys. I said you. Can FaceTime them on their iPad I'm not sure when I'll be back.
Okay let's take a breather for a second. No more of these convos with H! You've clued him in that you're not stupid. It sounds like he's in a perfect position for you to stop talking and start getting a little mysterious. Time to get T's groove back! You have one leg up. Do NOT slip!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I agree T0, with Train. You DID sound strong in that post up above. Why are you back-tracking?
Tomorrow night will be Saturday, date night, etc. I can't remember what you said you are doing then, but I think you had plans? Keep it up, be mysterious, put some good smelling perfume on, and waltz past everyone with a sly smile on your face. And if you happen to see H during that time, just hold your head up, wink at him, and keep on walking in your hot high heels. DO NOT LOOK BACK TO SEE IF HE NOTICED. He will.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
it was me basically agreeing with oh ok you need time. Take your time do what you want. I feel like if came off I was waiting for him.
I gave a lot of I don't knows
He talked about how we need to make ourselves happy. That we tried to make each other happy and we just can't make each other happy we need to make ourselves happy.
He said it killed him not to be around the kids. I said not enough for you to stay here as a parent.
I just was very flat and firm but I also feel like he knows I'm still here.
He said I'm not sure what path were going to take with our lives. I said no you mean what path you're going to take with your life.
he brought up a lot of negatives like the last two nights staying at the house were really nice we got along and it was nice to just be ther without arguing. BUT you know there's a lot of arguing and unhappiness between us. I just said I'm sorry you feel that way. I choose to see the positives and not the negatives.
I was strong but I told myself I wouldn't get drug into these conversations for at least 30 days and it's only been a couple days and here I am.
I was getting to the point where for whatever reason he was saying goodnight texting me. Today was the first time he has asked me how my day was since March. Not that it meant anythingor that it wasn't deceitful but still. Now I feel like I'm starting all over and he thinks it was An act
it was me basically agreeing with oh ok you need time. Take your time do what you want. I feel like if came off I was waiting for him.
I gave a lot of I don't knows
He talked about how we need to make ourselves happy. That we tried to make each other happy and we just can't make each other happy we need to make ourselves happy.
He said it killed him not to be around the kids. I said not enough for you to stay here as a parent.
I just was very flat and firm but I also feel like he knows I'm still here.
He said I'm not sure what path were going to take with our lives. I said no you mean what path you're going to take with your life.
I'm going to comment on this, then I'm going to bed.
What if you had said, " I am deciding what path I'M going to take with MY LIFE."
You and H are not a team right now. You aren't making joint decisions about your future. I think it's strong and confident for you to start making decisions about where YOU want to go, and he may or may not want to be a part of that.
But T0, you absolutely have to decide your own future path, and don't figure him in the plan. If he wants to run along beside you as you go that path, then good luck to him in catching up.
Wow. I need to take my own advice.
I think my anxiety meds are kicking in.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
I know having the newborn makes this incredibly confusing & so demanding (and probably hormonal).
But T0, as much as you are spinning, and being bogged down & mired in the crap,
you have been here before...and imo, that makes some things clearer... Not easier, but clearer.
What did you tell yourself before, what your path would be if it happened again?
Does your h doing this again after having a newborn, make you want to stay married to him more,
or less?
Here is what I learned this week.
My T mentioned how much emotional and mental energy it took for me to maintain the illusion that h was into being a family guy when it was just no longer true. The reality is he went to Alaska a whole lot - & usually lied about it. He put a lot of deceit into things I probably would have been okay with, too. Ironically his cowardly behavior was avoiding something that was unnecessary but it hurt me a lot to learn of later. Far far more than I'd have felt if he'd just asked to do a selfish thing (or something important to him that didn't bother me anyhow.)
As always it was the lying that ate away at my confidence.
He lived away from home with various excuses but in retrospect, it's pretty much self evident he didn't want to be a full time dad, and that's just a reality I must accept. He'd wrap it up in packages of "we need the money/I'm just checking out a job/helping with my mom" for 7 of the past 10 years off and on. And I allowed that. It's as if the fact that it wasn't Alaska, made the difference??
I simply could not believe who my h had become... I kept trying to convince myself AND the kids that h was someone he wasn't anymore. (That pretense of his and my enabling it did some damage to the kids).
I like to think He changed. I like to think he was once a very involved dad and h.
As horrible and challenging and overwhelming as it is to unravel a marriage of 35 years,
I'm starting to have days where I think I may have dodged a bullet.
If H & I remained married and I had been in an accident in 2/10/20 years & needed long term help, there is no way he'd have my back. No "in sickness & in health"...
He'd let me down again. This past fall I really needed him when I got sick. I was terrified and yes, needy. And he was AWOL.
I am beginning to see him as unstable & unreliable, and capable of truly poor choices.
I have felt differently about him now for the past few days. Even though he betrayed me in every way a h can betray a wife, I am beginning to see h has done me a very wounding & painful, but ultimately valuable permanent favor.
Our s31 said that I am "bound for so much more happiness than I'd have otherwise".
T0, that is how our only son sees this^^^.
So be mindful of romanticizing what would have been, if you and your h remained legally married. Sometimes we have to see that the value of an authentic but separate life, is better than an intact family with dysfunction and dishonesty. You're young, You can make it financially without your h, and you have family support nearby. If your h is capable of lasting seismic change, that's great. It sure won't come about by continuing this dance. As someone else wrote, you're a hardcore pursuer and it's getting you nowhere fast.
I'm sorry T0, but as of now, Your choice is Not between a bad divorce - OR a happy intact marriage and family. I don't think that is the choice life is offering you now.
T0, there are times it's very hard to know the difference between projecting our own situation onto others
and trying to share our experience and the insights we gained. I'm trying hard to balance the 2. I apologize if I'm blurring the line.
Actions are actions, and inaction is an action.
So again, what would your 2014 self have told your present day self, if you could see where you are today?
We are rooting for you and your boys.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
T0, all is not lost, but one of the main principles of DB is not to talk about the R when your H has decided to leave.
All he is doing is looking for validation he's doing the right thing. He WANTS these arguments. He WANTS the nitpicking. He WANTS to feel like you're overly emotional and want to control him.
He is trying to bring those out so he can reassure himself. Engaging in these discussions allows him to search and find things about you that makes him feel better and more confident in leaving.
Before I left, my H was trying so hard to pick a fight with me. I wouldn't let him. My mother was up helping me pack (and serving as a double agent since she was being nice to him to gather intel) and she saw him do things like mention something he was worried we'd take to her, and she'd confirm it, and then he'd seek me out in the house to tell me, too. It was totally unnecessary and he did it hoping he'd upset or anger me. I would not let him have that. I was neutral and brief. "Ok. I'll be careful."
I also heard the weird confusion between "I" and "we". He'd "we" me when he needed my cooperation. I was the one bringing it back to "me". I didn't let him lump me in, because he doesn't get to do what he did and then count on me to help him avoid consequences. This is what I see your H doing with these texts and calls, in addition to trying to bait you into negativity.
You've got a major pursuer/distancer dynamic happening. You both see the world very differently. You want togetherness to soothe you, he wants space to soothe him. You want to talk about problems immediately, he wants to ignore them, hoping they'll just go away (or that if he were with the right person, there would be no problems.)
You started stopping your pursuit, and your distancer doesn't like that. Classic. He wants you back in the role you've always played for him - needing him, wanting him, and making it known. And, make no mistake, by getting angry or hurt and allowing him to see that, you give him these things. You make him feel powerful and like he can come back to T0, Plan B, if he wants to.
You are no Plan B, T0. He chose to walk out, and you get to not participate in the same old games. Do not allow him to bait you into anything resembling pursuit. What you want is to learn to self-soothe and rely on yourself. You want to recognize that H is separate from you, not an extension of yourself or "the family." Right now, you want different things and that means you get to choose how much of yourself you give him. I think it should be very little, because the sooner he experiences the reality of his new chosen life, the better for you.
I think you see every opportunity of H talking to you as meaning it's possible to turn things around in the short term if you can just find the right words. That is pursuing behavior. T0, you will not get a healthy R without time apart where you grow confident and happy and he starts to take a hard look at his own behavior. You can only free him to do the latter by getting out of your own darn way and stop providing him ammunition.
Distancers do not change or really evaluate their choices while the pursuer is still pursuing. You have to stop, because that is the only way you get what you hope for - an H who might choose to examine himself and how he got here, and has realized that you are still the strong confident woman he fell in love with, that he perhaps has some depression issues or looking for happiness outside of himself, and that things can get better. And, yes, maybe he needs to see that the grass isn't greener with any OW.
I'm hurting about H likely dating. But I also tell myself that if I were a friend of mine looking at this situation, I'd say to me "Well, that's actually good. He's not likely to find someone amazing like you, and once the limerance ends, he'll be forced to remember all the good qualities that you have that he took for granted." T0, that applies for you, too. You and H had something special, and he assumes he can find it elsewhere. He thinks the grass is greener. Let him figure out that it's not.
Overall, it's time to decide. Do you want to help H leave you and feel good about his choice? If so, keep engaging in these discussions.
If you'd rather give him zero ammunition to soothe himself about leaving you, it is now up to you to enforce boundaries. No R talks. If he starts on the phone, find a reason to end the call. If he does it in your presence, say in an upbeat voice "You know, H, I don't think I want to talk about this." Keep all bitter tones out of any conversation with him.
You also need to try to validate him when he says things like "I miss the kids." "I can see why. That sounds really tough."
T0, remember all your friends from DB looking through your kitchen window and supporting you to remember and employ the new rules? It's time to picture that again. Because you won't get H back following your instincts; you will push him further away. You seem to have some mutual codependency happening and it's best for you to get the one to amicably put up some boundaries that reflect the new reality that H chose. You're not at his mercy, T0. You don't have to do what he wants.
You sounded so great yesterday, and then you allowed yourself to get sucked in, because you needed him to know that you knew about him looking for a house. What did that get you? To me, that was you being a pursuer and trying to make him change his behavior based on the fact that you "knew." But you're not his mom, T0. This is an adult man, one who has left you, making plans for his future. Why are you choosing to take that so personally and why do you think, after leaving you, he has an obligation to "not lie" to you? You aren't together and he doesn't owe you anything, unfortunately.
You don't seem to be coming from the place where you accept that he wants things to be over, even if there's not legal S right now.
So what if he's looking for a house? That would be great for the boys if he finds one, because unlike most WAH, he'd have enough bedrooms for them to visit.
Do you have the DR book? If so, pick it up and read it again. It's okay to be hurt and scared, but come here for help. With H you need to be acting "as if" while taking great care not to do anything that looks like pursuit, and while focusing on yourself.
Cadence, I love your post, I think exactly the same way. Bravo!
To please follow her advice.
Mlcers need to engage us in fights so they can twist those arguments in their favor to justify their actions/behavior. Don't give him that! Detach! Mine was a master at it (I was walking on egg shells, one day he even started a fight about stains on the kitchen floor...), once I understood the dynamic I stopped, at first he tried even harder then it slowed down. It's removing us as the cause of their unhappiness, it forces them to look elsewhere. Also fights justify them why they had to leave home, otherwise how can you explain to others that you are abandoning your wife and kids for OW... it doesn't look good, they hate to be judged, they care about their image a lot.
It's a process, so be very patient, it takes weeks/months. MLC is a marathon not a sprint, LBS are making the mistake of thinking that the situation can be fixed quickly, pushing too much and being impatient.
Focus on yourself and the kids (detach, please read the thread), because your life shouldn't stop because he is not part of it anymore. Don't expect him to be the dad (even if he expresses missing the kids) you want him to be now (tough to accept but that's reality), he is in full limerence, he cares only about his own life and needs, it doesn't mean his behavior will stay like that forever, limerence fades after a few months, just avoid any nasty words/conversations so in case he wants to come back, things are repairable. My H was very distant with the kids during his full replay (limerence), he was obsessed with OW (addiction), but now he changed drastically. Situations are always evolving so live in the present because what is today can be very different in a few weeks/months.
Pull away from him, stop pursuing him or engage in any R talks, it won't work, it will have the opposite effect. Our instinct is to pursue, but in that case ,it is counterproductive. I
He already planned of moving out since some times now it's obvious, he is just looking for justification to explain to others he couldn't "bear" this situation anymore (poor him...)
Communicate with him in regard of the kids only through emails or messages, so you can keep track of what he said/what he does.
Good job in telling him that you know he is lying, Mlcers like to be in control of their manipulation, they will lie just to be able to go through what they want to achieve without being interrupted of stopped, that's why don't believe any of what he said. Mine kept lying about not seeing the OW, WH have something in common they deny, deny... until I showed him some pictures.
You are NOT the reason he is behaving that way, he needs to figure out why by himself. Your worth is not related to him.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Thanks everyone. You are all right and Cadence your worlds and explanation is exactly why I was regretting getting into the conversation. He continues to lie it won't change but I just felt for the first time I decided it was time for me to stand up band not be a doormat.
He still continues to talk to the boss daughter for hours late at night.
I can promise that is the last talk I will have with him. Even if he tries to have a talk with me after he's finished taking his space and wants to tell me it's over he's made his decision I won't have that conversation. I'll only involve myself in necessary children and financial conversations.
He said he was coming to stay the night tonight. I think I need to leave while he's here. I don't have any plans and most of my friends are busy so I'm not sure what I'll do.
He said he was coming to stay the night tonight. I think I need to leave while he's here. I don't have any plans and most of my friends are busy so I'm not sure what I'll do.
Go out to a movie? Get a little dressed up and treat yourself to a nice cocktail or glass of wine or Shirley Temple?
I might lean toward letting him see that you are out and about and coming home late as opposed to staying elsewhere for the night. To me, the first is more genuine and the latter might look like game playing/pursuit.
Plus you'd be taking advantage of the one singular perk of him making this decision - he'll be 100% responsible for the kids and that means you get a break and get to start rebuilding a sometimes-kid-free social life.
Are you thinking of a longer term plan, T0? It's good that he's coming over to take care of the boys (because he can see your progress and the boys have stability) but at some point allowing him to come stay and do his parenting time when he prefers and in your house is shielding him from consequences.
At some point, there should be a shift to a set schedule and him taking the kiddos. (I feel more strongly about the set schedule - so you don't end up in a situation where he's all "Hmm, I'll go to this concert, and then three Tuesdays from now I don't have plans so I'll watch the kids" because that is cake eating. He doesn't get to pick and choose based on what is most convenient for his new social life. You need predictability and so do the kids.)
I strongly suggest that once things have settled, you be the person who says "H, now that you're moved out and established, the boys will do best with a set schedule. Plus it allows both of us to plan. Here's what I'm thinking will work best. Review it and let me know what you think." This action is very clearly Not Pursuing, because you are accepting his decisions and actively creating more distance.
He wanted to be a part-time single dad, so let him. That comes with some restrictions and less freedom than he enjoyed while married to you, since you served as the primary caretaker. Let him get a taste of the responsibility!
I think tonight I'm just going to go to the gym and tomorrow I'm going to tell him I have plans in the evening and need him to watch the kids. He had last weekend off.
In regards to the schedule that is a conversation that needs to happen but he's living at his boss house and has the boss daughter (who is 32 with a 12 year old) present there. Not an environment I want my kids sleeping at. So I will give it a couple weeks of no R talks and then pursue the schedule. UNLESS He pulls this concert I have plans I'm not coming by stuff.
He told me he would stay here two nights a week being mondays and Wednesday's. IF he continues to talk to OW I will have to approach that while he's staying the night in the house. That's not something I'm going to do now but it will be eventually.
Anyway my plan is gym tonight and out with friends tomorrow night. I won't stay the night out. The baby is too young for me to be gone overnight. I will only go out for a few hours and probably will come home around 12ish. It will probably make him happy I'm going out so that he will feel justified in continuing his R with boss daughter. That's what happened last time. He saw me out via FB friends tagging me. Then he started posting about him and OW being out. So that will be a xonsequence I have to deal with.
It will probably make him happy I'm going out so that he will feel justified in continuing his R with boss daughter. That's what happened last time. He saw me out via FB friends tagging me. Then he started posting about him and OW being out. So that will be a xonsequence I have to deal with.
Well, even if he does, how classless. You going out does not imply another man, so taking you having fun with friends as a green light to broadcast his affair is a bit much.
And, T0, I know it would hurt to see something like that. But remember that you are not your emotions.
First of all, he's left. You aren't together right now, though you are still M.
Second, you know that whatever he finds with an OW is not likely to compare what he had with you, and sometimes they need that stark comparison to get it (they're so busy running and demonizing us so they can run that they forget all the amazing things we do bring to the table that other women don't necessarily have. Particularly one with a kid herself who supports a man leaving his wife while the baby is still a newborn...)
Third, he has done this before. Yes, ouch, but what was the outcome of that? He realized he was still in love with you. So what exactly is so scary about him doing it again? What is the likelihood he'd come to a different conclusion than that, especially when you're busy GAL and getting happy and non-anxious T0 back?
Yes, the house is a curveball. And, should he want to play house with OW and her son, rest assured his "new life" (at times separate from his kids but full time with a son that isn't his) is not going to be easy for him. Stepparenting - or being close to one - is incredibly emotionally taxing. I've done it. I can't compare it to having my own kids because I don't have them, but those who have done both say that stepparenting is harder work. All the work, none of the decision-making power, and tons and tons of conflict.
Was it truly because he wanted me or because it was easy. Because he got dumped by OW and didn't want to be alone ? I now question all of his answers and explanations during R.
This being the second time for me is scarier. He's been down this road he knows what the outcome was and yet he's still willing to do it again.
Maybe he just doesn't love me and was here out of convenience. I don't know.
Also who knows what he's telling the boss and the daughter. They both have a lot of nerve commenting on my pictures of my kids on FB I posted the other day.
T0, I would advise you to stop trying to get into his head. Stop worrying about why he came back the first time and instead think about why y'all didn't work on things and change things enough for BOTH of you to stay happy.
These are improvements you can make in your*self* to make you a better, happier person and (eventual) partner, whether that's with H or someone else .
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Our C said H does something that I get a negative feeling and then instead of reassuring me he gets negative feelings about my negative feelings and then he pulls away further. He said we have to break that cycle.
He said it started with the flowers. I said I was uncomfortable and H didn't reassure me the way I needed and it snow balled from there.
I don't know... I'm feeling discouraged today. I'm trying to work through it but to be honest I wish he wasn't even coming over tonight. I'm half tempted to send a text that we are going somewhere and won't be home. I just feel like watching a movie with my kids and relaxing. Not having to fake moving on in front of him. I'm sure I'll feel better in a couple hours I'm just tired today. The baby didn't sleep well and the boys have been out in the pool all day and then I picked their friend up and they're playing soccer outside. I'm just sitting down to work on schoolwork and am having a moment of why is this my life. Why does he have to do this again. More importantly why do I want him so badly.
Amen to the stepparenting thoughts above! And I HAVE done it. You can love the stepkids with all your heart, but they aren't your HEART the way your own are. It won't be easy for him.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
That's what my dad said --- he said it's all going to come crashing down on H again, that it's all so predictable.
He thinks he's going to hurry up and buy a house and live this great life and that I'm the problem I'm holding him back etc etc. he said in a few months or maybe longer he will be back crying to my dad about what he's done.
That's why my dad gave me the same advice to step back and let his world fall apart without me so that he can see the common denominator is him. However my dad doesn't want me to save this marriage. He has told me Many times if I take him back he cannot be in my life the way he is now because then he said there's something wrong with me to put myself through this again.
Your dad is hurting for you T0. One of my favorite sayings is- a parent can only be as happy as their unhappiest child. And I believe that totally. ((((T0)))))
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Block him on FB and don't share any information about your whereabouts.
Something about OW, usually they have self esteem issues and problem of their own, what kind of woman is willing to engage in a "special" relationship with a married man... they crave the attention they are finally getting from someone and in return they stroke their ego and validate everything and question nothing, they play the perfect girlfriend. At first, OW play it very light (they want to please them so badly) then they start to make demands (they want their cake and eat it too), that's when the fantasy starts to catch on reality. Also, step kids are a big throw back into reality. Talking is something, you say and show only what you want others to know or believe but sharing daily life is "welcome to reality", you can still hide some of your bad habits for a while but usually not for long, also you accept a few things a the beginning but after a while you become irritated. Limerence feeds on fantasy.
Cadence is right also about working on a schedule or a least scheduling time he has the kids, he needs a dose of reality, I remember I took 2 kids with me for a sport event week end and he stayed with our youngest one (10 at that time), he had to reorganize his little gym/nap/going out with his buddies schedule not only for one night but from Friday afternoon until Sunday night, he couldn't just come and go.
No R talks at all, work on being detach, at first it's very tough, you have to fake it then little by little it comes along, and one day you have it. It's doesn't stop the anger or the frustration but they do hurt you the way it was, you are becoming "waterproof". Read the thread of Psysara and skim0619, how they struggled with detachment until they realize it was the best way to survive, thrive and actually have a positive impact on the relationship with their WH.
You can do it, even if now you feel powerless, angry, frustrated and desperate. All those feelings are NORMAL, you have been hit with something terrible, you are suffering from PTSD, so get help, don't think you can do it without being help (I thought I could do it without it), I have a medical background, one of my friend tried to persuade me to see my FP, I refused many times, until one day, I had enough of crying, not sleeping well, also those obsessive thoughts were really an obstacle to my daily life and being the mom I wanted to me. He prescribed me with Wellbutrin, it helped me to detach even more, I took it for 6 months and I stopped.
I have to go...
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Our C said H does something that I get a negative feeling and then instead of reassuring me he gets negative feelings about my negative feelings and then he pulls away further. He said we have to break that cycle.
Sounds like your C is describing pursuit and distance. Even though you get the negative feeling, you're looking to H rather than self-soothing. And then H distances, and you react to it, and on and on.
In the pursuit and distance thread, there is a book recommended. Excerpts were pulled from it. I am currently reading it and there is a ton of information in there that you could find useful T0.
Quote:
I don't know... I'm feeling discouraged today.
Me too. I've gone down on the rollercoaster right before a fun evening with coworkers. Hopefully that will lift my spirits up.
Quote:
Why does he have to do this again. More importantly why do I want him so badly.
Last week I listened to a podcast about the influence of the negative circles in relationships: how it pushes spouses away from each other slowly but surely and its negative and devastating effects of couples. How we expressed sadness, needs, anger, and fear with aggressive/nasty words and how in return it makes feel the other spouse being rejected and reduce to worthless all the efforts he/she could have done the previous days, that person in return reacts aggressively or with nastiness to defend/protect herself/himself and stop all effort in the relationship without understand that behind that "attack" was just a need to reassurance, the first person who was in need of reassurance then feel the other doesn't care about him/her and ...the circle continues until one gives up on the relationship. The conclusion was: we have to be very cautious about our interactions with each other (domino effect), if we don't break that negative circle, there is no way to improve the relationship, it will get worst with time and one partner will withdraw (distancer) while the other will keep pursuing (pursuer), until the pursuer give up too.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I'm exhausted. H came here straight from work. Showered and put all his clothes in his truck.
I haven't said anything. We both were sitting in the living room watching tv. I didn't make conversation and neither did he.
Am I supposed to sit out there or do I go in my room? I don't even know. I am so tired I'm tired of all of this. I just want things to be okay. I feel like I should just give up. My family keeps telling me it's over forever and he's never coming back.
I did tell him I needed him to be here tomorrow to watch the kids because inhad somewhere I needed to be. He said ok
Go to your room, it makes easier to detach and it gives him the space he wants. Take a long shower, take care of yourself, lay down, close your eyes, sleep, rest or listen to some relaxation podcasts. Read the thread on detachment (I know I am obsessed about it but it's was lifesaver) and the one about the distance/pursuit. I will be here for you, dear H is ready to sleep, my kids are having fun at their friends' places. I am enjoying my glass of wine...
One day at a time.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I just want to know there's hope .. I feel so beat down and it is so hard hearing everyone tell me it's over and he's never coming back. My Mom has been so supportive until this week. She said it's over. He's not coming back. She was the only one that was my cheerleader this whole time. Cause she knew I wanted to save my M. Now I have nobody that thinks there's hope.
The boys had a friend over. H came with us to drop him off and we stopped to get pizza. He asked if the boys wanted to watch a movie. I'll probably retreat to my room and give him space. He is so quiet and distant with me. He looks so empty inside when he's around me but when he's talking to the kids he's all upbeat and happy
((((T0))))) I know you're tired. Don't overthink anything tonight, okay? How about you just stop all the stinkin' thinkin' and just get lost on Pinterest or something tonight?
Sending big hugs.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
It's never over until it's fully over, I learned it from sports and medicine, and I taught it to my kids.
3 years ago, my H was in full EA with one of my dear friend, but I was not aware of it, only that he was very angry at me, snapping all the time, and withdrawing more and more from all of us, we were walking on egg shells, nothing I tried was working. 2 years ago, I became aware of his cheating (by snooping/tracking) with my dear friend, their EA was now a full PA, she was his soulmate, the love of his life, full limerence, I caught them in the parking lot of the hotel where they met, I took pictures. They swore they were done, I believed them, his behavior was still strange the following months so I became suspicious again. 18 months ago, I caught/recorded a conversation where they were talking about living together and moving far away, she was pushing him to file "I am ready to leave my husband and my kids right now, when are you going to leave her?". I exposed them to a few people. I told her I was going to make sure her kids listen to her words... she panicked and stopped everything. He couldn't' stand the withdrawal from her (addictive effects of limerence) so he went straight to another one to soothe himself and trying to recreate the feeling, that OW2 had been looking for him for a few months (golddigger ), I caught him (I was not a fool anymore) and told him that I called previous OW (the soulmate) to let her know she had been replaced and offered to show her proofs (I really enjoyed making that call), he was furious, I cut any return possible to her (she was pissed beyond imagination...). He was left with his stupidity and the damages he had done, it was a wake up call.
I was beyond hurt, distressed and disgusted. I detached and told him I was done (kept my dignity and didn't use any fool or nasty words), I took care of myself and the kids, started a few GAL activities, the full DB, something happened in him, he understood I was done for real, I was not pursuing him in any way to the contrary, no R talks, I set up boundaries. He realized he was losing his family/kids/dignity, he asked for another chance, I gave him my conditions if he wanted to stay at home, I did it mainly for the kids (I was really done) but he couldn't touch me or come close to me, he had to follow some rules (no more OW, no flirty behavior, no messages to any W, no lunch/dinner/coffee with anybody with a vagina, being an open book, wearing his wedding ring all the time, taking STD tests...).
Piecing has been a long frustrating process for both, he went into withdrawal, depression then ambivalence (I am the one who is still ambivalent but he doesn't know, I still don't trust him, I will be be a fool if I was, but I don't obsess about it, I just enjoy to have a peaceful life with no more roller coaster and a changed husband).
He changed drastically in 1 year and I changed too, I am much more independent, I am still detached, the more I detached and was friendly the more he changed in a positive way, also I know I can be happy without him.
During that time, the anger and the frustration started to hit me hard, I almost filed 2 times, I enjoyed a few bottles of wine... had a few laughs when I told him he could be the laughing stock among his friend with his 25 year old OW2, the way they are making fun of one of their friends marrying a woman 20 years younger than him, he didn't take it very well but I really needed that little revenge of mine.
Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that light is your new life, the NEW YOU, it's not only about having him back or not, it's more about rebuilding your self confidence and the trust you have in yourself. I am not the same, that journey changed me, I hate what happened to me but I love the NEW ME, it gave me strength and I did a few things that stunned my H, he thought I was weak... I proved him wrong. He thinks now that I have super powers, he is convinced I can hack whatever I want... lol, the kids had a good laugh on that one...
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
What a ride for you Sky. I hope to have the strength to fully detach and let go. I think this new baby makes it tremendously difficult for me because we planned to have a baby.
You know we spent a lot of time in C I thought we made the necessary changes
Anyway I guess that's besides the point. I think he's lost. The steroid injections working out buying the motorcycle-- he is looking for external happiness.
I guess what I struggle with is how badly can he hate me or feel nothing for me that he would rather walk out.
Well I made it through another night. I don't deserve a DB award but I didn't get myself into a R talk. We got back with pizza and I came straight to my room with the baby. I thought I would give him time with the boys to watch a movie. The boys ended up coming in my room and wanted to watch one in here so H came in here as well. My oldest asked him to sleep in here. He brushed it off and went to the couch. He doesn't say goodnight or goodbye or much acknowledge my presence unless I say something. I think I should probably just stop talking and leave it be.
My concern regarding last time vs this time is this time he's more level headed and thinking clear. Last time he wouldn't come here and be around me much less stay the night. To me I think that means this time he's not so much wayward but just done.
I'm taking the boys to get out of the house today. I didn't invite H. I'm not sure what his plans are. He's in the garage working out now. But we will go about our day and have fun without him.
I don't have a lot of time. Go read the thread of Psysara, she was pregnant with her third baby when her husband was involved with OW. You might want to ask her a few questions, she is great!
I remember my husband using "testosterone"... It was a disaster on his mood.
You are not the cause of his behavior, it just happens that he needs to find someone guilty of his unhappiness, and he made you the scapegoat of it. That happiness is something that they have in themselves that are nothing to do with us but rather with their upbringing, but instead of working of themselves it's easier to blame someone. That's why by snapping at you to start fights/arguments, it gives him excuses/justifications that you are the one making his life miserable, it's very twisted but they don't think in a rational way.
Bye
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I think I have. Read a few of her threads. I kept up with a few people even when things were good in my R just because I am so appreciative of this place. I don't always feel like I'm the best advice though.
Ya the injections he's doing definitely have messed with his behavior. My dad noticed the change too he asked what was up because about 2 weeks after I found out about the injections he was very quiet cold and angry. He hadn't been that way before. I'm working in internal medicine and doing a rotation in endocrinology right now too. The physician I'm with is a friend and knows a little of what's going on. She said my H is nuts to do the injections. I spoke with a male physician that had been on them and said it almost cost him his marriage because he was so angry and always snapping at his wife and kids. So he came off of them. And he was on them for low T so he had a medical reason to take them. He said he couldn't imagine having normal T and taking more how crazy that would have made him nuts.
I got the boys ready and H came with. We have had a good time.
Now I struggle with is this how he thinks it's going to be? We will do stuff like this and just not be married?
I mean should I not be allowing him to come with us at some point and let him see this isn't how things are going to be.
I just don't know what the hell I am supposed to be doing. I don't want to push him away but at the same time this isn't how it's going to be if he's going to buy a house and file for D
Right now he hasn't bought a house or filed for D.
I hear what you're saying about him cake-eating. But it sounds like you not inviting him is you trying to "show him" something. "Show him" = hope to control his feelings/decisions. It won't work.
Don't let your mind mislead you here. I think I know exactly what you're thinking: well, if he thinks things are going to be this enjoyable with us not being a couple, then he will most certainly want the D because things seem better now than they were when we were a married couple.
That couldn't be further from the truth. Why? Mainly because you two have history and children together. Each time you're having fun and not stressing and not nagging and not trying to control him, he sees you in a positive light. And that's a helluva lot more attractive than you going into your room with the baby and shutting the door or you not inviting him places.
And here's the $21 million question: What do YOU want to do? Does it help you more than it hurts to have him around? Or does it hurt you more than help?
Do whatever helps YOU. Forget what's going to help or hurt or impact H even one small iota!
Girl, I know this is hard to see and understand when you're in the throes of everything, but you're getting opportunities handed to you: opportunities to be light and breezy (and even fun and flirty) ... opportunities to be the OW to this "OW" ... opportunities to let down your hair AND drop that rope you're needlessly holding.
I see you are attempting to play reverse psychology with yourself: when H acts nicer, instead of you looking at that as a baby step and realizing you've maybe found what's working, you say: "Well, he's being nicer; that must mean he's really done."
Reverse psychology doesn't work - even when we use it on ourselves. I'd maybe stop being so pessimistic and start paying attention to the cues that H is giving you. Frankly, if you were my spouse and I could feel you distancing yourself, or putting a little wall up, every time I took a step toward you to make things feel less tense or awkward, I'd stop taking steps toward you.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
My concern regarding last time vs this time is this time he's more level headed and thinking clear. Last time he wouldn't come here and be around me much less stay the night. To me I think that means this time he's not so much wayward but just done.
T0, here we go again with mindreading H and the word "done."
If you were a poker player, the D word would be your tell. Like "Oh, T0 said 'done', I know she's got nothing good in that hand of hers." (I don't know poker, if it's not obvious!)
You've typed the D word. Now we know that you are at risk of an anxiety spiral that will cause you to act (or want to act) in ways that work against your own self-interest. Because you've decided he's "done" and now it will be time to despair because he's "done."
It's time to dig into this. What does the D word mean to you? Why is it so powerful?
I mean, your H IS leaving you. He thinks he's done. He thought that in 2014, too, and it turned out not to be true.
I was amused reading skyhigh's excellent posts to you. Go reread them. Find where she herself used the D word. She was done. What did it mean in her case?
"Done" is a feeling, T0, and feelings have a funny way of changing. We can have so much negative feeling that we work up our resolve and we're "done." Is that permanent, though? What happens when we shape reality and act upon fleeting feelings?
If you ask me, the only "done" in life that can't be "un-done" is death.
And, so what if your H appears rational? You know he's got so many things driving his behavior (OW, steroids) and there's the nagging detail that he's also done this before. He knows how it goes.
If you want to see the rational facade crumble, stop any and all pursuit. You're doing great at it but it has to be consistent. H isn't going to have his "uh oh" moment unless you stay the course. He thinks you'll flip flop. He's seen what looks like strong moments from you before, but it's only a matter of time until the R talks happen again and/or you do something trying to control him or make him responsible for your happiness.
Time and consistency, T0. This is going to be a big challenge for you. He'll try to pick fights to get you pursuing by showing him your hurt. He'll try to start R talks with the same goal. Get angry, T0. You are being set up. And you are so much stronger than someone who would succumb to those games. Slap a smile on your face, hold your head up high, and show him that things have changed and you are better than that.
"I need time apart and maybe someday..." should be met with a "H, you left me. There is no point to talking about this. I'm not interested in these 'somedays'. I'm interested in my happiness and the boys' happiness and being the best mom and T0 I can be. Could you please hand me the remote?"
Any attempt at picking a fight (he'll go for more and more sensitive areas for you as you take less of his bait, so get ready), just act completely obtuse. As if what he's trying to do is not registering with you. "Oh, that's nice" or "That must be hard. I'm sorry that you're feeling that way." Or just flat out agree with him sometimes.
Do not sit down for serious talks. Do not go on the porch with him for talks. Do not have extended phone conversations.
You're in control now, T0. This is how you start to feel better. Your H is left, thinks he's "done" (but we now know not to assign that word so much power over us, right?), and now you get to shape your own narrative.
I hope you get dressed up and have an amazing time with your friend. It's time to pamper yourself a little. Get your hair done, or your nails, or buy a new outfit.
I don't envy any of you with shared kids, because it must be so hard to keep seeing the waywards/MLCers. But boy do I envy you, because you get the opportunities to show them that you are changing. In my story it's a bunch of silence, so I'm looking to you, T0, to take advantage of what I don't have. Show H that you are still the same beautiful, attractive, and fun loving woman you always were, but he doesn't get any of your attention anymore.
I just don't know what the hell I am supposed to be doing.
I very much remember having this exact feeling - like, to the point that it felt consuming. I actually think about that often. And the last time I revisited my old threads, I sort of chuckled because people were offering advice, and very succinctly, but for a while, my brain and heart were in so many pieces and places that everyone's advice just confused me, and I felt like they were contradicting themselves a lot of times! Boy, do I remember that! It was very frustrating and discouraging.
Oftentimes, I expected myself to essentially be a robot. I wanted vets to tell me exactly what to say and at what times. The problem was: I couldn't keep them in my pocket to tell me what to say on the fly when my H was around and gave me a perfect opening for one of those great comebacks I had been provided. And then I'd question a million times if I should use Comeback A or Comeback B for that specific thing H said.
I laugh at myself now, but I really felt that way!
T, you're not a robot. And, fortunately or unfortunately, there's not one thing you're going to do that's going to make or break your M, so it's okay (and advantageous) to drop that pressure you're needlessly putting on yourself about that.
At the same time, while your actions/words won't make your M, they can and WILL make a difference! People often say on these boards that our spouses are going to do whatever they're going to do, and there's not a dang thing we can do about it. That's hogwash! Yes, they will do what they're going to do, but that doesn't mean we don't have a little (and sometimes a LOT of) influence over their choices! That is, after all, the reason we all picked up DB/DR and found our way to these boards!
T, we're trying to help you realize that this is all about YOU. Don't deny your H an invitation with the family because you want to teach him something. That's not your job. Instead, don't invite him because you want to unwind without having to question if everything you do or say is "the right thing." Don't invite him at times because it's more relaxing for YOU sometimes when he's not around ... and let the consequences of that for H be what they may. Don't set a visitation schedule with H and the kids with the goal of showing H what life as a single dad is going to be like. Set a schedule because the predictability will help you keep YOUR life on track ... and let the consequences of that for H be what they may. Does that make sense?
Just try to stop worrying about what you're "supposed to do." The advice you're being given is pretty much all the same across the board, and it mainly boils down to you doing YOU and letting H do HIM and then seeing where things go. We're asking you to do what should be the easiest thing in the world: *nothing*. Yeah. We pretty much want you to do nothing. Drop the rope. Let go. Don't do a dang thang, chicken wang! LOL!
If you find out down the road that H is having a PA, then maybe I would have different opinions on things like H enjoying time with you and the kids and then going back to OW. (Even though, as I detailed in an earlier response, I still allowed H to do this sometimes when he was gone, and many people here weren't entirely behind me on that decision. I'd add: my mind was in a place that allowed for this to work.) But right now? Do we know if H has crossed one of your boundaries? Has he trampled on your non-negotiable core boundaries and/or beliefs? That's up to YOU to decide. What we don't know is if your H's involvement with OW has turned physical, and we all kind of agree that it doesn't sound much like it is ... at least for now. (I'm not saying an EA is any less painful ... in fact, I think the emotional A is sometimes MORE painful to endure ...) And we know that H is currently not trying to sleep with you or lead you on or anything like that. He just joins his family from time to time for a good, relaxing time. I truly don't see the harm in that *except* that it hurts your heart to have a good time and then wonder why he's leaving it all. I do get that part and that pain. But that's why I really hope you'll start using these opportunities to make yourSELF feel better: dress up a little, flaunt your hot self around a little bit, bat an eyelash or two and turn and walk away, knowing exactly where H's eyes are going!
Essentially, I think whether H is hanging with the family is far less important than your mindset when he *is* around. If you're feeling strong - psh! - invite away! The stronger and more confident you are, the more attractive you are to H. He may still talk to OW late at night, but YOU can give him something extra to think about it. And eventually, those calls may not intrigue him as much as time with his W and family does ....
Be the OW to the OW!!!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I have read all the posts many times and will continue to do so.
I was light and breezy yesterday. We took the boys to laser tag (I got the high score one round haha)
Then H suggested we go bowling. We all laughed and had fun. On our way home H suggested grilling out for dinner and asked if that was ok with me and then asked what time I needed to leave for 'my thing'
I got dressed wedges and all and left him while he was cooking dinner just said to have a good night. He didn't message me while I was out to tell me about the baby.
My dad was here he didn't want to leave H alone with the baby the way he screams uncontrollably. So he text me around 1030 and then 12 the baby screamed for an hour. I started to come home twice but stayed out. I came in around 130. Didn't say anything to H got in bed and went to sleep. He stayed sleeping in the bed with me and got up with the baby changed him and gave him to me to feed.
My uncle is taking his boat offshore to go shark fishing. My dad invited h to go.
I'm not sure about this. My dad is out there being all talkative and friendly. Again -- I don't want H to think this is how it's going to be. He even told his mom everything would be ok like this.
Just give it a little time and see where things go. Sounds as if H is sticking his toe in the water and seeing how things feel. Keep working on yourself. By the way did you have a good time last night?
Yes I had a good time with a few of my girlfriends. It wasn't a perfect night because I was stressed about the baby crying and really wanted to go home but felt it was important for H to do it on his own.
I won't lie I sat in my car in the driveway drinking a beer talking on the phone to my mom crying at 130am. But I pulled myself together and came in and didn't say a word. My mom wanted me to go in and tell H I loved him or something and I said no I can't that you all would yell at me haha!!
I thanked H this morning... just said thanks for keeping the kids and thanks for staying in the room last night it was nice to have your help.
He and my dad are st the store now and getting ready to go offshore. I'm going to stay home with the baby and work on homework. They'll pick me up on the boat when they get in from fishing and we will go to the island and hang out for a couple hours. Rough life my kids have
My uncle is taking his boat offshore to go shark fishing. My dad invited h to go.
With your father not that happy with H, are we sure that H is coming back from this fishing trip?
That was my first thought! Or perhaps it is just men being more laid back and forgiving than women
Great job last night, T0. I like the staying out late. I note that you said that H was in bed, whereas other nights he's been on the couch, right?
What was up with your mother? She should not be encouraging you to tell H that you love him when you've had a few drinks in you. Have you talked with her and let her know the best way to get H back is for you to be happy and detached and doing things like telling him you love him will work against you?
Ha no one way fishing trip today. Not quite sure of my dads intentions. This entire time he's been upset with H but hasn't said one word to him about anything to him. Like I said before he wants me to get rid of H. So I don't get why he's being so friendly to H. He hasn't been mean to him since he moved out but he also hasn't engaged or spent time with him.
Yes H was in our bed with baby when I got home. I expected that because that's where the baby sleeps. He was sleeping when I got in so I didn't wake him Togo to the couch. I did thank him for staying in the room bc he got up with the baby and changed him I just had to feed him so it made my night easier.
I haven't heard from him on the boat. Normally he will text me pictures. I decided not to go with the baby. I just didn't feel like it and it's hot for the baby and a lot of work for me. Plus I don't really want to be around H.
IRT my mom. She means well she just told me that's what she would do but to not just do what she tells me to do. She like me just wishes it were that simple. Plus we had both se drinking. I knew not to do anything.
Patience is the key, MLC is a long, long marathon (months even years) with with some major roller coasters and numerous step back. Don't mind read, just keep detaching and rebuilding yourself!
Don't engage in any negative circle and learn how to recognize when he tries to start an arguments, that's very important, he might step up his game to make you mad when he will notice that you are not reacting as you used to, just leave the room if it's too much, but do not answer back (don't give him that pleasure).
No R talks at all, just act as a friend/neighbor, the more you can interact with him in a neutral/positive manner, the better it is for you and your kids, kids are very sensitive to the tension between their parents. It brings positivity to the family relationship whatever the outcome can be.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
H stayed again last night... slept on the couch. He doesn't say goodnight or anything to me he comes and kisses the boys (who are in my room) and says nothing to me.
We don't really talk unless I make small talk which I don't push too much.
I walked outside while they were cleaning the boat and I guess he and my uncle were talking about everything but I don't know what specifically. I didn't ask my uncle or anyone for that matter to talk to him.
It was a nice weekend. It was like our normal life minushim treating me as a wife rather than an aquaintance.
Anyway- thought about sending him a text thanks for a nice weekend. The kids and I had a good time or something along those lines.
Don't send him anything! It's better to be treated as an acquaintance than the enemy. Great job at detaching! Your relationship needs to go from negative to neutral.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Ya I just don't know what neutral is exactly. Because I'm friendly but don't go out of my way to talk to him. Yesterday I didn't say much because they weee gone most of the day I made a small conversation about a soccer game that we talked about then walked out of the room and didn't talk much after. He went and got dinner for everyone and I thanked him for that and let him sit on the couch by himself while the boys and I watched a movie in my room.
We really don't talk much at all. If we do it's short and not about anything substantial unless it's kid related. And I haven't brought up anything. My dad was going to talk to him yesterday but I asked him not to. Like I said my uncle did but he told me it was very brief. He told H he's not taking sides and doesn't know much of anything what's going on just that he's not living at the house and that he hopes we can figure things out that we both have things we need to work on and that life is tough and relationships are hard. He's been married for 30 years and that there were plenty of times he wanted to walk away but that at the end of the day he's glad he didn't. He said H said a few things he's unhappy with me about and that he doesn't want to put the boys through a divorce but that he just doesn't know. Then I walked outside (didn't know they were talking) and the conversation ended.
I don't plan on initiating contact this week. I am not going to ask if he's staying the night I'll just see what happens. If he doesn't come by I'll have the boys call at night. If he texts about the kids I'll respond and I think this week if he asks about my day I'll respond since I didn't last week. That's about all I have for now who knows what will change. I haven't checked the phone bill since Friday because when is we bad things (realtors talking to boss daughter etc) it really brings down my ability to be As if.
Because your fear outweighs your love for yourself.
T0, you snooping does not help you. It increases your anxiety and woe is me. It puts you at risk of reactivity toward H. I swear, if you say anything to him about realtors or buying a house, I will hunt you down, T0!
You are doing so good. Don't mess it up!
Quote:
I need to accept it's over and he's never coming back
Oh, come on, T0. Your M is over. We've told you that. You don't want the one he's leaving, anyway. But never coming back is a stretch.
Why must you torture yourself like this?
What have you been doing to educate yourself about what is going on with H so that you don't get sucked into this negative cycle?
Are you reading the stories of others? Success stories are great. They allow you to read the despair, and then read as the person gets themselves back, then the strength, and then R can happen. (It can't until then.)
Are you reading your own history, to see how despairing you were then and you came out the other side and were okay (and yes, we know it's the second time and so what? If this is an MLC it's not a quick thing.)
Are you reading books?
Are you commenting in others' threads and providing them support?
What are you doing other than your daily stuff, posting here in your thread, and occasionally snooping on H? And I don't mean activities, I mean what are you doing to self-soothe and take hold of the bigger picture?
Once you prioritize those things, then you will understand why snooping is your addiction. "Just one more, I'll feel better". <proceeds to not feel better> "One more time. I'll feel better this time. Surely my story isn't like the others. What do they know?" <proceeds to not feel better>.
Maybe next time is the time when you snoop and feel better than before you snooped.
I promise I'm not going to say anything. He told me he would be here two hours ago and still isn't so I got curious I guess you could say.
I feel like I'm not doing good. I'm just here at the house I say hi and other than that we don't interact. I don't hover in the living room where he is and I'm too tired to go out and do anything on these nights so I just usually hang in my room with the baby and do homework.
I know I need to stop snooping... I feel like I'm just tying to protect myself from being blindsided. It gets my hopes up when he stayed here all weekend and again tonight then I'm brought back down to reality when I see he's still making other plans.
I have read others stories and read my own which was painful but I am feeeling as if I'm not in a place to offer any type of advice.
I just feel like there's no way he can come back twice. How can I even attract him back to me when I'm so depressed. I just had a baby I feel terrible about myself I'm in school. Having to go back to work soon. I don't even want to go out and do anything unless it's with my boys. I just feel TIRED. How am I supposed to compare to OW that's fun no responsibilities doesn't have 3 kids civrcles under her eyes from being up all hours of the night and constantly having a newborn attached to her breastfeeding.
My life consists of caring for the baby my boys going o school and coming home cooking dinner getting the house in order and watching a movie with the kids. That's my life. Unless it's my day off then it's some homework and then I take the boys to do something.
I just feel hopeless and lost. I'm not going to say anything or act on these feelings but I feel so alone. I feel so sad that he doesn't love me anymore. That he is so unhappy he would rather do this and leave our family then bear being with me as his wife again.
When this first started and we went to C I asked him who was I to you when you were happy and on top of the world. Who was I? When you loved me beyond measure what kind of person was I? He couldn't answer any questions I asked. I asked him what do you need from me? What's missing? What do you need to be happy? He couldn't answer anything. He just told me to be myself and do what I want to do. If I want to miss him then do it. Don't worry about what I think he wants or asking him for permission.
Anyway I'm just rambling. I just wish I could have a sign that there's hope. Something positive.
I feel like I'm not doing good. I'm just here at the house I say hi and other than that we don't interact.
Doing nothing is better than doing something. If you can't manage lighthearted detachment, then not doing anything is fine. You do not want to provide him anything to work with in building a case to D.
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know I need to stop snooping... I feel like I'm just tying to protect myself from being blindsided.
You can't protect yourself from being blindsided by H or by life. And all it does is keep you miserable. What you find never makes you feel better. Never. Even if you find nothing, you walk away feeling bad.
So, stop snooping. That's it.
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I have read others stories and read my own which was painful but I am feeeling as if I'm not in a place to offer any type of advice.
Yes, you are. Do you know why I like offering advice? I like helping people, but also it helps me see the big picture. I'm detached from the scenario, and I can see what would be helpful for that person to achieve their stated goals. And that then allows me to have that as second nature in my own mind, so it helps me, too.
Go find at least one other person's thread and give them advice, T0. It's time to reach out to something bigger than yourself and your situation. It will help others and it will help you and there is zero downside.
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I just feel like there's no way he can come back twice
How do you explain that very same thing happening to others? T0, how much have you read on MLC? Did you know it often involves fits of going and staying until it finally sticks, because it is a process happening within the MLCer? It has nothing to do with how much they love their spouse, just whether they can tolerate emotional intimacy with another person. It is my belief that the A's, which are usually A down, happen because they want to a) feel alive via limerance, b) feel powerful by getting their ego fed, and c) be with someone whom they cannot get too close.
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My life consists of caring for the baby my boys going o school and coming home cooking dinner getting the house in order and watching a movie with the kids. That's my life. Unless it's my day off then it's some homework and then I take the boys to do something.
That's okay, T0. Many people would long for that life. I'll never have kids, and I feel envy that no matter what happens with H, you've got your kids. I envy you. I don't envy what it takes to be parent to kids - I know it must be exhausting. But please try to remember that not everyone has what you have, and even if it feels like less to you, it's still full of blessings.
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I just feel hopeless and lost. I'm not going to say anything or act on these feelings but I feel so alone.
I'm sorry, T0. But I also want you to look at the bigger picture here and remember that you are grieving and these feelings are natural for someone who is grieving.
You can't avoid grieving. It is what it is. And I know it's little consolation to you, but growth happens during these low moments. You need to let them happen to move forward from them.
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I feel so sad that he doesn't love me anymore.
I'm sorry you feel this way. And I'm sorry H thinks he doesn't love you anymore. Do I think he actually doesn't love you anymore? Nope. I think he does. It's just buried right now.
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That he is so unhappy he would rather do this and leave our family then bear being with me as his wife again.
I know. I often sit and list the things that H is doing to his and his kids' life in order to get away from me. It is irrational and astounding, and for those reasons, it hurts. It's like "Am I really that bad?"
But I know that while there were definitely things I could have been better at, H misidentified me as the reason he was unhappy.
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When this first started and we went to C I asked him who was I to you when you were happy and on top of the world. Who was I? When you loved me beyond measure what kind of person was I? He couldn't answer any questions I asked. I asked him what do you need from me? What's missing? What do you need to be happy? He couldn't answer anything. He just told me to be myself and do what I want to do. If I want to miss him then do it. Don't worry about what I think he wants or asking him for permission.
T0, repeat after me: "H's actions are not a value-judgment about me and my worth. H has a lens up right now that filters all that he sees, because he is a (suspected) MLCer, is taking steroids, and is likely getting attention from other women. These things impact the filter through which he sees me, T0. I have the same value I did as when he approved of me and thought I made him happy. I have the same value as I did before I even met H. My worth as a lovable human being is not defined by a midlife man's choices."
Wow. I am in aw right now. These are some awesome women and the advice is so on point and eloquently stated. I can't think of anything better to add, but I can still try and chip in too. Feeling grateful for this community when I read your thread, TO!
I am sorry this is so rough. Try and read and reread what these women are saying. No one is "done" with anything until they are dead and really done. People and feelings change all the time. Lately I keep thinking that I am done with my M and then I think of your thread and how many times I have read the word "done" and I literally roll my eyes at myself! lol.
TO, we all believe in you. You actually have complete control over your life and happiness; you just can't see it today because you are hurting and feeling defeated. That is okay, we all have those times in life! You can get to that strong and confident woman that we know you are. AND YOU WILL! One day at a time right now. Savor every little success. And don't beat yourself up every time you think you messed up. That is just being human!
Feel your pain, sadness, and fear--cry, call someone, post here--and then you get to place it on the shelf, dust yourself off, and you keep getting up. That is power and control--that much you can do now. Later you can do more.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
H is going to another concert. Our ticket broker text me on accident instead of H saying get back to you with a price on that concert. I said ? He said oh sorry meant to send that to your H.
Also he rented a storage unit yesterday.
He and I had limited interaction. He told me he would be st the house by 6. He showed up at 9. I didn't say anything just let him know i had made him a plate for dinner on the stove. He asked me how the kids were. I just said I didn't get home from the office til 6 but that my dad said they were good.
He stayed on the couch and was in the bathroom a lot. I think that's when he's texting OW. He also worked out for awhile and took some more things. Again I didn't say a word. I watched a movie in my room with the kids. I sent the boys out to the living room to say goodnight to H. He didn't say goodnight to me and I didn't go out there to say anything to him.
I spent all night last night reading through all my old threads.
It is eerily similar to now but also different is that makes sense. His lying. His saying it will work out all while planning behind my back is the same. BUT last time he wouldn't be around me or have anything to do with me. This time he seems more comfortable to be around and do things as a family. This makes Me more concerned. Like he's not as angry or enthralled with an OW as he was last time.
Everyone says there's no way he will come back twice. That I'm crazy to even think that he would even consider it.
He's already done this and knows how it ends and is willing to do it again. Therefore it must be what he really wants. That he just came back last time because he got dumped by OW and was lonely. All this stuff is so hard to hear and I know they don't say it to hurt me but to help get me angry to say F you and move on.
I just want someone to tell me what to do to give me a fighting chance. Yes I know no R talks. But am I crazy for wanting to stop this a second time? My dad said I need to be evaluated for mental problems to want to have him in my life when he can walk out on us a second time. He said no matter what I did or how much of a PITA I am you don't walk out with a newborn. He said every marriage goes through its stuff but you don't succumb to weakness.
I sit here and wonder if it's me. If it's not H and it's just me. And he will be happy with someone else and never leave that person or cheat on them. Last time I didn't think it was me as much because he was so cold and angry. He had changed so much so I KNEW he was going through something. This time I am doubting that. Because he's still around still doing stuff as a family I mean this weekend was normal yet he still got a storage unit looked at a house and is buying tickets for another concert.
Today is the first time I've cried since last Thursday. I just feel so beat down. I want to make things better. I want to have my kids have their parents together. I don't want H with another woman and I sure as hell don't want to be with another man.
How can he see me as the person he did. I mean we have no interaction nothing positive nothing negative just neutral as mention. It's just kind of bill related. There's no light breezy conversation. He doesn't initiate and neither do i.
I just feel like I'm doing this all wrong again. Especially after reading through my threads last time. It took me months to figure it out and I feel like I'm in the same exact place. My feelings that I wrote are literally identical to now
When my ex left for OW, I figured it was all me. I said "what could I have done differently to make him happy and not cheat and stay? Then he went on to marry the other woman. They have been married longer than we were and together for the same amount of time we were. So, I asked myself "what did she have that I don't?
I know exactly what it was. The person he wanted me was not the person I wanted to be. I sustained being the person he wanted me to be for 9 years until I could not anymore.
What is important is not who you are to him. it's who you are to yourself. That you are the person you want to be.
I know you would like a quick fix. I get it. But there is none, and you are doing just fine, I don't think you could do anything differently. This is his issue now yours.
As far as your father, it really is a catch 22. from the outside it is reasonable to see that it is insanity to take back a guy who walk out on the mother of his child when their baby is born. My dad did not take kindly and still does not to this day. Looking back, for me, I was just desperate to keep my brand new family together. But I knew a man who did that to me and my child is not the man I wanted as my husband.
He is being selfish right now doing what he wants when he wants and is considering no one else right now. You didn't drive him to that. he is choosing to evade his reposnibilities. And you can't make him, no matter what you do differently or perfectly. he has to make the decision himself.
TO, We are here to support you. We walked in your shoes and felt in our hearts those excruciating feelings of despair. The positive I see right now is that's you are not getting in arguments or R talks, that's a huge achievement. Now, you need to do something about those obsessive thoughts, I know more easy to say than do, you need to see your family practionner and ask him, what you can take to help you while breastfeeding. It's very tough to project yourself in the future in those conditions.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I wish I could stop these thoughts but I just keep feeling like it's me or what should I have done differently... like I failed. I failed our boys. What reason do I have for this being over besides he just isn't happy.
He's making permanent decisions to move on with his life. Buying a house, moving things out, storage unit, concert tickets this is all like last time except last time he wasn't moving his stuff out at this point and didn't get a place until 5 months after moving out and only did it month to month.
I just can't help but think there's no hope if he's willing to obtain a 30 year mortgage. That's pretty telling to me
You can stop thoughts. It takes practice, but you can. Google thought-stopping techniques.
A bit of neuroscience for you: these pathways that you go down are built into your brain's architecture since you were young. The more you allow the pattern, the more cemented the pathways.
The good news is that there is plasticity in the brain. You can get rid of the pathways that cause you to spiral, simply by breaking your pattern. You cannot allow thought A to progress to thought B and then on to C. You have to be ready to pick up when thought A happens and stop it there.
This is the only way.
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help but think there's no hope if he's willing to obtain a 30 year mortgage.
Well, according to my H buying a home with a 30 year mortgage isn't a big deal and less than a year later you can just sell it again. No big deal.
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That's pretty telling to me
"Telling" about what, T0? What are you trying to do here? Mindread? Soothsay? Predict?
YOU CAN'T DO THOSE THINGS, T0. It's a waste of time.
What this all comes back to, T0, is you trying to be in control. You are unwilling to let life happen and believe that everything will be okay, and I believe this tendency of yours is what stifled your H in your marriage because it meant you had to be in control of him, too.
You may be under the impression that someone controlling only is maybe male, and yells, and things like that. But a softspoken woman can be incredibly controlling if she's not willing to drop the rope and let life happen and know it will all be okay.
H didn't say I was controlling. His complaints that he told me were that he didn't feel appreciated. C said my need to know everything is going to be okay comes from what happened last time. That because H lied so much my brain tells me to keep asking the same question and maybe on the 10th time he will tell me the truth. He tried to explain all that to H.
I wasn't snooping like this last time... once I found out about OW I went back and looked at the phone bill but didn't do these things I've done now.
I'm just fighting with accepting it's over and there's no hope.
I'm comparing this to last time and it seems more hopeless to me. That's why I'm spiraling today. The reality of my new life.
I don't act like this in front of H. Last night I casually had a plate on the stove when he got home. The boys and I had a dance party in my room then my youngest went out to show h while he was on the couch and S6 wanted me to dance too I just laughed and said I didn't want to scare anyone.
This place really is my outlet.
I jut want someone to tell me what to do how to interact and how to let go. I know that's all unrealistic by the way. But that's where my mind is. I want everyone to tell me what move I should make and when to make it. I'm so afraid to do more damage.
*fist bumps*
