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It's never over until it's fully over, I learned it from sports and medicine, and I taught it to my kids.

3 years ago, my H was in full EA with one of my dear friend, but I was not aware of it, only that he was very angry at me, snapping all the time, and withdrawing more and more from all of us, we were walking on egg shells, nothing I tried was working. 2 years ago, I became aware of his cheating (by snooping/tracking) with my dear friend, their EA was now a full PA, she was his soulmate, the love of his life, full limerence, I caught them in the parking lot of the hotel where they met, I took pictures. They swore they were done, I believed them, his behavior was still strange the following months so I became suspicious again. 18 months ago, I caught/recorded a conversation where they were talking about living together and moving far away, she was pushing him to file "I am ready to leave my husband and my kids right now, when are you going to leave her?". I exposed them to a few people. I told her I was going to make sure her kids listen to her words... she panicked and stopped everything. He couldn't' stand the withdrawal from her (addictive effects of limerence) so he went straight to another one to soothe himself and trying to recreate the feeling, that OW2 had been looking for him for a few months (golddigger ), I caught him (I was not a fool anymore) and told him that I called previous OW (the soulmate) to let her know she had been replaced and offered to show her proofs (I really enjoyed making that call), he was furious, I cut any return possible to her (she was pissed beyond imagination...). He was left with his stupidity and the damages he had done, it was a wake up call.

I was beyond hurt, distressed and disgusted. I detached and told him I was done (kept my dignity and didn't use any fool or nasty words), I took care of myself and the kids, started a few GAL activities, the full DB, something happened in him, he understood I was done for real, I was not pursuing him in any way to the contrary, no R talks, I set up boundaries. He realized he was losing his family/kids/dignity, he asked for another chance, I gave him my conditions if he wanted to stay at home, I did it mainly for the kids (I was really done) but he couldn't touch me or come close to me, he had to follow some rules (no more OW, no flirty behavior, no messages to any W, no lunch/dinner/coffee with anybody with a vagina, being an open book, wearing his wedding ring all the time, taking STD tests...).

Piecing has been a long frustrating process for both, he went into withdrawal, depression then ambivalence (I am the one who is still ambivalent but he doesn't know, I still don't trust him, I will be be a fool if I was, but I don't obsess about it, I just enjoy to have a peaceful life with no more roller coaster and a changed husband).

He changed drastically in 1 year and I changed too, I am much more independent, I am still detached, the more I detached and was friendly the more he changed in a positive way, also I know I can be happy without him.

During that time, the anger and the frustration started to hit me hard, I almost filed 2 times, I enjoyed a few bottles of wine... had a few laughs when I told him he could be the laughing stock among his friend with his 25 year old OW2, the way they are making fun of one of their friends marrying a woman 20 years younger than him, he didn't take it very well but I really needed that little revenge of mine.

Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that light is your new life, the NEW YOU, it's not only about having him back or not, it's more about rebuilding your self confidence and the trust you have in yourself. I am not the same, that journey changed me, I hate what happened to me but I love the NEW ME, it gave me strength and I did a few things that stunned my H, he thought I was weak... I proved him wrong. He thinks now that I have super powers, he is convinced I can hack whatever I want... lol, the kids had a good laugh on that one...


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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What a ride for you Sky. I hope to have the strength to fully detach and let go. I think this new baby makes it tremendously difficult for me because we planned to have a baby.

You know we spent a lot of time in C I thought we made the necessary changes

Anyway I guess that's besides the point. I think he's lost. The steroid injections working out buying the motorcycle-- he is looking for external happiness.

I guess what I struggle with is how badly can he hate me or feel nothing for me that he would rather walk out.

Well I made it through another night. I don't deserve a DB award but I didn't get myself into a R talk. We got back with pizza and I came straight to my room with the baby. I thought I would give him time with the boys to watch a movie. The boys ended up coming in my room and wanted to watch one in here so H came in here as well. My oldest asked him to sleep in here. He brushed it off and went to the couch. He doesn't say goodnight or goodbye or much acknowledge my presence unless I say something. I think I should probably just stop talking and leave it be.

My concern regarding last time vs this time is this time he's more level headed and thinking clear. Last time he wouldn't come here and be around me much less stay the night. To me I think that means this time he's not so much wayward but just done.

I'm taking the boys to get out of the house today. I didn't invite H. I'm not sure what his plans are. He's in the garage working out now. But we will go about our day and have fun without him.


M 31 H 34
S 6 S 9
BD 2/14 Piecing 8/14
T384 #2748227 06/24/17 02:06 AM
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I don't have a lot of time.
Go read the thread of Psysara, she was pregnant with her third baby when her husband was involved with OW. You might want to ask her a few questions, she is great!

I remember my husband using "testosterone"... It was a disaster on his mood.

You are not the cause of his behavior, it just happens that he needs to find someone guilty of his unhappiness, and he made you the scapegoat of it. That happiness is something that they have in themselves that are nothing to do with us but rather with their upbringing, but instead of working of themselves it's easier to blame someone. That's why by snapping at you to start fights/arguments, it gives him excuses/justifications that you are the one making his life miserable, it's very twisted but they don't think in a rational way.

Bye


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,680
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I think I have. Read a few of her threads. I kept up with a few people even when things were good in my R just because I am so appreciative of this place. I don't always feel like I'm the best advice though.

Ya the injections he's doing definitely have messed with his behavior. My dad noticed the change too he asked what was up because about 2 weeks after I found out about the injections he was very quiet cold and angry. He hadn't been that way before. I'm working in internal medicine and doing a rotation in endocrinology right now too. The physician I'm with is a friend and knows a little of what's going on. She said my H is nuts to do the injections. I spoke with a male physician that had been on them and said it almost cost him his marriage because he was so angry and always snapping at his wife and kids. So he came off of them. And he was on them for low T so he had a medical reason to take them. He said he couldn't imagine having normal T and taking more how crazy that would have made him nuts.


I got the boys ready and H came with. We have had a good time.

Now I struggle with is this how he thinks it's going to be? We will do stuff like this and just not be married?

I mean should I not be allowing him to come with us at some point and let him see this isn't how things are going to be.

I just don't know what the hell I am supposed to be doing. I don't want to push him away but at the same time this isn't how it's going to be if he's going to buy a house and file for D


M 31 H 34
S 6 S 9
BD 2/14 Piecing 8/14
T384 #2748237 06/24/17 06:17 AM
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Right now he hasn't bought a house or filed for D.

I hear what you're saying about him cake-eating. But it sounds like you not inviting him is you trying to "show him" something. "Show him" = hope to control his feelings/decisions. It won't work.

Don't let your mind mislead you here. I think I know exactly what you're thinking: well, if he thinks things are going to be this enjoyable with us not being a couple, then he will most certainly want the D because things seem better now than they were when we were a married couple.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Why? Mainly because you two have history and children together. Each time you're having fun and not stressing and not nagging and not trying to control him, he sees you in a positive light. And that's a helluva lot more attractive than you going into your room with the baby and shutting the door or you not inviting him places.

And here's the $21 million question: What do YOU want to do? Does it help you more than it hurts to have him around? Or does it hurt you more than help?

Do whatever helps YOU. Forget what's going to help or hurt or impact H even one small iota!

Girl, I know this is hard to see and understand when you're in the throes of everything, but you're getting opportunities handed to you: opportunities to be light and breezy (and even fun and flirty) ... opportunities to be the OW to this "OW" ... opportunities to let down your hair AND drop that rope you're needlessly holding.

I see you are attempting to play reverse psychology with yourself: when H acts nicer, instead of you looking at that as a baby step and realizing you've maybe found what's working, you say: "Well, he's being nicer; that must mean he's really done." confused

Reverse psychology doesn't work - even when we use it on ourselves. I'd maybe stop being so pessimistic and start paying attention to the cues that H is giving you. Frankly, if you were my spouse and I could feel you distancing yourself, or putting a little wall up, every time I took a step toward you to make things feel less tense or awkward, I'd stop taking steps toward you.


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
T384 #2748239 06/24/17 06:26 AM
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Quote:
My concern regarding last time vs this time is this time he's more level headed and thinking clear. Last time he wouldn't come here and be around me much less stay the night. To me I think that means this time he's not so much wayward but just done.


T0, here we go again with mindreading H and the word "done."

If you were a poker player, the D word would be your tell. Like "Oh, T0 said 'done', I know she's got nothing good in that hand of hers." (I don't know poker, if it's not obvious!)

You've typed the D word. Now we know that you are at risk of an anxiety spiral that will cause you to act (or want to act) in ways that work against your own self-interest. Because you've decided he's "done" and now it will be time to despair because he's "done."

It's time to dig into this. What does the D word mean to you? Why is it so powerful?

I mean, your H IS leaving you. He thinks he's done. He thought that in 2014, too, and it turned out not to be true.

I was amused reading skyhigh's excellent posts to you. Go reread them. Find where she herself used the D word. She was done. What did it mean in her case?

"Done" is a feeling, T0, and feelings have a funny way of changing. We can have so much negative feeling that we work up our resolve and we're "done." Is that permanent, though? What happens when we shape reality and act upon fleeting feelings?

If you ask me, the only "done" in life that can't be "un-done" is death.

And, so what if your H appears rational? You know he's got so many things driving his behavior (OW, steroids) and there's the nagging detail that he's also done this before. He knows how it goes.

If you want to see the rational facade crumble, stop any and all pursuit. You're doing great at it but it has to be consistent. H isn't going to have his "uh oh" moment unless you stay the course. He thinks you'll flip flop. He's seen what looks like strong moments from you before, but it's only a matter of time until the R talks happen again and/or you do something trying to control him or make him responsible for your happiness.

Time and consistency, T0. This is going to be a big challenge for you. He'll try to pick fights to get you pursuing by showing him your hurt. He'll try to start R talks with the same goal. Get angry, T0. You are being set up. And you are so much stronger than someone who would succumb to those games. Slap a smile on your face, hold your head up high, and show him that things have changed and you are better than that.

"I need time apart and maybe someday..." should be met with a "H, you left me. There is no point to talking about this. I'm not interested in these 'somedays'. I'm interested in my happiness and the boys' happiness and being the best mom and T0 I can be. Could you please hand me the remote?"

Any attempt at picking a fight (he'll go for more and more sensitive areas for you as you take less of his bait, so get ready), just act completely obtuse. As if what he's trying to do is not registering with you. "Oh, that's nice" or "That must be hard. I'm sorry that you're feeling that way." Or just flat out agree with him sometimes.

Do not sit down for serious talks. Do not go on the porch with him for talks. Do not have extended phone conversations.

You're in control now, T0. This is how you start to feel better. Your H is left, thinks he's "done" (but we now know not to assign that word so much power over us, right?), and now you get to shape your own narrative.

I hope you get dressed up and have an amazing time with your friend. It's time to pamper yourself a little. Get your hair done, or your nails, or buy a new outfit.

I don't envy any of you with shared kids, because it must be so hard to keep seeing the waywards/MLCers. But boy do I envy you, because you get the opportunities to show them that you are changing. In my story it's a bunch of silence, so I'm looking to you, T0, to take advantage of what I don't have. Show H that you are still the same beautiful, attractive, and fun loving woman you always were, but he doesn't get any of your attention anymore.

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And another thing:

I just don't know what the hell I am supposed to be doing.

I very much remember having this exact feeling - like, to the point that it felt consuming. I actually think about that often. And the last time I revisited my old threads, I sort of chuckled because people were offering advice, and very succinctly, but for a while, my brain and heart were in so many pieces and places that everyone's advice just confused me, and I felt like they were contradicting themselves a lot of times! Boy, do I remember that! It was very frustrating and discouraging.

Oftentimes, I expected myself to essentially be a robot. I wanted vets to tell me exactly what to say and at what times. The problem was: I couldn't keep them in my pocket to tell me what to say on the fly when my H was around and gave me a perfect opening for one of those great comebacks I had been provided. And then I'd question a million times if I should use Comeback A or Comeback B for that specific thing H said.

I laugh at myself now, but I really felt that way!

T, you're not a robot. And, fortunately or unfortunately, there's not one thing you're going to do that's going to make or break your M, so it's okay (and advantageous) to drop that pressure you're needlessly putting on yourself about that.

At the same time, while your actions/words won't make your M, they can and WILL make a difference! People often say on these boards that our spouses are going to do whatever they're going to do, and there's not a dang thing we can do about it. That's hogwash! Yes, they will do what they're going to do, but that doesn't mean we don't have a little (and sometimes a LOT of) influence over their choices! That is, after all, the reason we all picked up DB/DR and found our way to these boards!

T, we're trying to help you realize that this is all about YOU. Don't deny your H an invitation with the family because you want to teach him something. That's not your job. Instead, don't invite him because you want to unwind without having to question if everything you do or say is "the right thing." Don't invite him at times because it's more relaxing for YOU sometimes when he's not around ... and let the consequences of that for H be what they may. Don't set a visitation schedule with H and the kids with the goal of showing H what life as a single dad is going to be like. Set a schedule because the predictability will help you keep YOUR life on track ... and let the consequences of that for H be what they may. Does that make sense?

Just try to stop worrying about what you're "supposed to do." The advice you're being given is pretty much all the same across the board, and it mainly boils down to you doing YOU and letting H do HIM and then seeing where things go. We're asking you to do what should be the easiest thing in the world: *nothing*. Yeah. We pretty much want you to do nothing. Drop the rope. Let go. Don't do a dang thang, chicken wang! LOL!

If you find out down the road that H is having a PA, then maybe I would have different opinions on things like H enjoying time with you and the kids and then going back to OW. (Even though, as I detailed in an earlier response, I still allowed H to do this sometimes when he was gone, and many people here weren't entirely behind me on that decision. I'd add: my mind was in a place that allowed for this to work.) But right now? Do we know if H has crossed one of your boundaries? Has he trampled on your non-negotiable core boundaries and/or beliefs? That's up to YOU to decide. What we don't know is if your H's involvement with OW has turned physical, and we all kind of agree that it doesn't sound much like it is ... at least for now. (I'm not saying an EA is any less painful ... in fact, I think the emotional A is sometimes MORE painful to endure ...) And we know that H is currently not trying to sleep with you or lead you on or anything like that. He just joins his family from time to time for a good, relaxing time. I truly don't see the harm in that *except* that it hurts your heart to have a good time and then wonder why he's leaving it all. I do get that part and that pain. But that's why I really hope you'll start using these opportunities to make yourSELF feel better: dress up a little, flaunt your hot self around a little bit, bat an eyelash or two and turn and walk away, knowing exactly where H's eyes are going! cool blush laugh

Essentially, I think whether H is hanging with the family is far less important than your mindset when he *is* around. If you're feeling strong - psh! - invite away! The stronger and more confident you are, the more attractive you are to H. He may still talk to OW late at night, but YOU can give him something extra to think about it. And eventually, those calls may not intrigue him as much as time with his W and family does ....

Be the OW to the OW!!!


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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Posts: 1,433
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Standing ovation over here, cadence!!!!!


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 275
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Originally Posted By: Train
Standing ovation over here, cadence!!!!!


The feeling is mutual, T.

Now if H could only realize how amazing I am. wink

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I feel he doesn't, he's a fool.

xo


M: 40 H: 44
Married 14 years
S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M
2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart
Piecing: April 2014
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