Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Hello everyone. I’m new here, only just recently discovered this site via another forum. I’ve been lurking and reading a bit here lately. It seems like this would be a good place to tell my story and to get some advice to help me with my current situation.

My wife and I are in our mid 30s and will have been married 12 years later this year (together about 15 years). We have three kids young kids, a house, 2 cars etc

About 8 months ago my wife came up to me and told me that she didn't think we should be together anymore. That something was missing and we were just like flatmates. This of course came out of nowhere for me. I was absolutely shocked and lost for words. I got the ILYBNILWY when I asked her if she still loved me. I didn't know what had just happened. My world had just been turned upside down.

Having found Sandi2’s Reflections thread today, I’ve realised everything I have done up until this point has been a typical “Nice-Guy” approach, so bare with me.

My W could never tell me exactly what went wrong and didn't seem to want to try and fix the MR. I wanted to try everything there was to save the MR but she was never interested, instead saying that it wouldn't change anything, she can't change the way she feels. Eventually she asked for some space so I moved out to my parents place.

After about a week I moved back home, into the spare bedroom, but we were separated. We tried talking about things numerous times. Every Time it was the same thing. I wanted to try everything to try and fix our MR, she did not. It wouldn't change anything she said. Which confused the hell out of me. Why wouldn't she want to try fix our MR after 15 years together?!?! It confused my family and friends as well. This went on for a few weeks and I gradually started to come to terms with the fact that she wasn't going to change her mind..

One day as I get home from work she seemed a bit different, like something was on her mind and asks if we can talk. This is where the BD happened. She had been having a PA ever since that afternoon when she told me that we shouldn't be together anymore. To make it worse, the AP was a “friend” in the street, who was also married. She had lied to me and our closest friends about everything.

Between that moment and now it’s been a bit of a roller coaster for me. We have stayed together and tried to work through things. Most of the time I would say that our MR has been the best it has ever been! The PA is definitely over, there is no contact between them anymore, but recently I feel that in her head the EA is still going on. My W has only been to a few counselling sessions, only one of those was a joint one. We have had plenty of discussions where I have to work hard to get her to open up. She says she doesn't like to talk to me about it since she hates seeing how much it upsets me. “It” being the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me. She says she loves how much I have changed, how I am with the kids, how I am with helping around the house etc, she just doesn't have any intimate feelings for me anymore. The last time I heard this was about a week ago. As usual, I thought things were going great before talking to her. But this time it got me thinking. I’m really starting to question why I am still in this MR. I’m getting nothing out of it while she is getting everything she wants out of it. What am i doing here if she is emotionally in love with someone/something else??

I realise now that I have handled this whole situation wrong. I have been the “nice-guy” the whole time. I read a lot of books and turned myself into the model husband. (This wasn't entirely just for my W or the MR, I also wanted to change for myself to be a better father to my kids). I do still love her and want to save our MR, but I can't go on living in this “limbo” while she makes up her mind. I can't go on waiting while she feels nothing for me and IMHO, is still having an emotional affair. I need to gain the upper hand back.

The last chat we had she said she needs space. We currently aren't “separated”, but there is no intimacy between us anymore. She is going to go and talk to someone again and try and sort her head out. She is worried about making a big mistake and losing me. Everyone is telling her that I am a great guy and that she should stay together with me. She is worried about losing a lot of friends. We have only told a few close friends and family about the PA, and should it come out, naturally, everyone would take my side. I don't want to punish or get vengeance on my W, I’ve forgiven her and want to move forward, but I don't think she has really had to deal with any of the consequences of her actions yet. That is probably mostly my fault.

As I’m writing this I am, for the first time, considering going home tonight and telling her it's over. I’m not going to live in limbo while she is emotionally somewhere else. Is that what I need to do? I don't know. This whole situation [censored]. Its exhausting. I’m mentally drained everyday from thinking about this. I’ve read Sandi2’s rules/180 and am trying to implement that. I’m finding it hard to do since we aren't technically “separated” atm. My W is quite normal around me. Happy, talks about the future, calls, messages throughout the day etc. And I cling to every little bit of hope.

I hope that all makes sense. Confused and scared about what to do from here. I’m definitely going to start on some of Michelle’s books. Is it best to start on her latest? Healing from Infidelity??

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 723
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 723
Get and read DB. There's a lot of good info in there to help your situation.

One of the many things that helped me was the idea that "if what you're doing isn't working, stop doing it." You say she hasn't had to live with the consequences of her actions. Well, maybe it's time she does. Maybe something like organizing family outings that don't include her.

There are lots of suggestions in the books, but most importantly, realize that you can only change you. So get started. Do things without her that you used to do before you were married. Remind her of the guy you used to be when you had a life of your own.


M:23 T:26
Me:53, Wife: 60
S:18
D:16
filed 7/16
W moved out 4/28/17
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 253
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 253
Hi Forbet,

I'm sorry you're having to go through this but it's salvageable. Please read the thread about being the lighthouse Cadet has posted if you already haven't it gets you into a great mind set.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

People on here will help please keep posting on your situation so that a clearer picture can develop with that they can then better advise.

Be patient, be strong and take care of the little one's.

Mark.


DR'ing started March 2017

Don't blow the last bridge up from fantasy island, act "as if".
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Thankyou all for the replies. I'd already started working through some of those resources linked but will keep at them.

I purchased Michele's "Healing from Infidelity" book and will have that finished in a couple of days. Planning on grabbing DB after. I'm hoping they will help give me some direction as at the moment I have no idea what to do.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 25
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 25
Looks like you were a blue-pill guy and you have to take the red pill now.

Sorry. That's rough especially with the kids etc.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.


Got that all covered

Originally Posted By: athas
Looks like you were a blue-pill guy and you have to take the red pill now.


Yep starting to see that now.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Hello and welcome!

Originally Posted By: Forbet

Having found Sandi2’s Reflections thread today, I’ve realised everything I have done up until this point has been a typical “Nice-Guy” approach, so bare with me.


Yeah, most of us here were like that. Here's the thing, our W's were originally attracted to us because of our alpha behavior. We were strong, independent, self-sufficient. We hook up with them and get married and have kids and become very beta- we take out the trash, do the yard, help with the kids. So what happens when our W loses the attractiveness and goes WAS on us? We double-down on the beta behavior! We cook, do laundry, clean the house! That is NOT what we should be doing to try to win her back. What will attract her back to us is the alpha stuff. That's why we talk about getting back in shape, losing weight, changing your wardrobe, start wearing cologne if you don't, get out and get a life. Become the alpha male you once were. In the process you start loving and respecting yourself again, and THEN the WAS might start finding you attractive again.

Quote:
My W could never tell me exactly what went wrong and didn't seem to want to try and fix the MR. I wanted to try everything there was to save the MR but she was never interested, instead saying that it wouldn't change anything, she can't change the way she feels.


And you need to respect her feelings, because right now all your efforts are telling her "he just wants me back, as usual he is all about what HE wants and not what I want." Give her time and space.

Quote:
I wanted to try everything to try and fix our MR, she did not.


Yeah she just sees that as you forcing your agenda on her. Remove all pressure.

Quote:
Which confused the hell out of me. Why wouldn't she want to try fix our MR after 15 years together?!?! It confused my family and friends as well.


Because she was trying to get your attention for months or even years. You probably saw it as complaining and nagging and shut down on her. So she quit trying, and you thought things had gotten better because she wasn't nagging anymore. So then BD happens, and you're shocked. It seems to have come out of nowhere. But for her it's been going on for a long, long time.

Quote:
I gradually started to come to terms with the fact that she wasn't going to change her mind..


Not anytime soon, but eventually she might. This takes time.

Quote:
“It” being the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me. She says she loves how much I have changed, how I am with the kids, how I am with helping around the house etc, she just doesn't have any intimate feelings for me anymore.


Yeah that's the alpha versus beta thing I mentioned above. You're a great housekeeper, father, etc. And that is FANTASTIC. But that's not what's going to make her attracted to you.

Quote:
But this time it got me thinking. I’m really starting to question why I am still in this MR. I’m getting nothing out of it while she is getting everything she wants out of it. What am i doing here if she is emotionally in love with someone/something else??


YES, that is a very valid question to ask yourself. Why are you trying so hard when she's not even willing to lift a finger? Maybe you should quit trying to fix the M and work on yourself instead. Because if you do that, then you will WIN whether the M is saved or not.

Quote:
She is worried about making a big mistake and losing me.


You WANT her to worry, you WANT her to miss you. We all have made the mistake of trying to be there for the WAS no matter what. We make the perfect Plan B for them, the backup that they know is there if their primary plan (usually OM) fails. But guess what? If we're so willingly in reserve then they don't have to fight for us, or do anything at all. They just know we're there like a puppy dog, waiting for them to come home. So they don't feel any urgency about it, they can just keep chasing their dream indefinitely while we sit there waiting.

Quote:
As I’m writing this I am, for the first time, considering going home tonight and telling her it's over.


That would be a very alpha thing to do, and surprisingly a move like that can snap the WAS out of their dream and make them realize the LBS is more important to them than they thought. But here's the thing, you can't do it as a strategy because she may very well agree. If you do it, make sure you do it because that's what you want.

Quote:
My W is quite normal around me. Happy, talks about the future, calls, messages throughout the day etc.


But no intimacy, so I would say things are not at all normal, correct?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,509
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,509
Forbet, I'm going to quote a few of Sandi2's recent posts, because what I think you need to do is try and get an understanding of a WW mindset, and the mindset that exists after an affair.

My suggestion for you right now, is give her space. Be friendly, be kind, be there for her when she approaches you (validate), but give her time and space. While she's getting space to work on her, you keep working on yourself. I'd recommend reconnecting with friends and doing lots of things with them, or doing things that will help you make new friends. It will really help you to be passionate about life, and passion is sexy to her.
1. If your sleeping in the same room, do not pressure intimacy or relationship conversations at bedtime.
2. Don’t initiate any conversation talks, only have them if she initiates and make sure you validate her feelings, you don’t need to agree, but you need to verbalize that you understand how “SHE” feels about it.
3. If she questions why you’ve backed off, offer up that you’ve noticed that she’s struggling with trying to figure things out and you want to give her the space she needs to figure out what she wants.


Here are the quotes:
Originally Posted By: sandi2
All in all, it wasn't too much time until I decided to go NC with OM, cold turkey. And that experience made me a true believer about the addictive power an A can hold. I can't remember exactly, now. I know the first 4 weeks were hell. The first 4 months were hard withdrawals......and around 6 months it began to taper off some. But it would take about 2 years before I began to feel like I wanted to put effort into my MR.

The WW has to go through a process, which can be very agonizing and long, if she has years of resentment and disrespect, as was the case with me. Although similar behavior patterns, each woman is an individual story. Every woman had problems and issues in life that may have had no connection to her having an A........... and those problems are still there when the A ends........plus the destruction the A caused. The pre-affair and post-affair complexities often require guidance from a professional therapist, in order to piece their life back together......and certainly, piece the M.

I'm not sure what you mean in question #2. To try and give a shorter answer to #3 & #4,
I have always needed at least one person I could talk to about problems. However, nobody in my world knew this woman I had become. I was not ready to reveal to my family or friends, b/c if they knew the truth, they would have been shocked! So, the need to talk to someone was getting stronger. One night I decided to reach out for guidance, and I sought a Christian chat room or forum (can't remember). I must have chose an off night, b/c I quickly moved on.......and saw something about divorce busting. Along with the information I was receiving, I began seeing a few cracks in the knight's armor. So, I think timing played a big part, at least for me.

I did the hard work. I am still with my H. I am still here, but not as a WW. A former WW, passing forward (I hope) the favor that was given to me.


Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
AND she had to decide it was time to change again.
Just like the LBS has to decide that it is time for them to change their behaviors.


Thanks, Cadet, for pointing that out. Let me also add, and I hope this will help Parkema........for me, it started with a decision to "do the right thing". Well, let me back up just a little, and say it really started with me wanting to talk with someone who understood. I had really no desire to jump back into my MR with both feet. I thought I had no energy left. At the time, my feelings for my H had certainly not changed from negative back to positive. I really want the LBS to get what I am saying here. How many times have I read the threads of some H who desperately wants his W to end her affair........and when she finally does end it, he is hurt further b/c she does not immediately fall into his arms! It took time for her to fall out of love with her H (the feelings of being in love), and then she thought she was in love with OM, and then she ends that R and is expected to immediately feel in love with her H again? It doesn't work that way, from what I experienced and have studied. She has to go through a process. For me, it started with turning to help (and I got it here on the board) and then it was a matter of doing the right thing.....instead of doing what my emotions wanted. Let me tell ya, my process was long. Making the decision to do what is right is just the beginning for her. Until then, I see no way for a successful reconciliation. She could sit around for a lifetime, waiting for loving feelings to prompt her actions. And that can become a crutch for some waywards, by saying they have no feelings. For me, I had so many years of resentment that it worked as a roadblock to the right feelings, along with remorse and other issues I would need to resolve. Thus, the answer for why the process took me so long

Although I had not behaved accordingly, my moral and spiritual beliefs were still implanted deep within me. Personally, I don't think a wayward suffers much with feelings of guilt (at least not enough to change her direction) at the time of acting out in rebellion, b/c WW's have a sense of entitlement and self justification. Many LBH's want to think their WW feels guilt, but even if that's true.......the mindset of the wayward is going to trump guilty feelings, at least during the peak of the rebellion. When my H confronted me, I felt like the guilty kid who had been caught with her hand where it didn't belong. I mean, he had solid proof! I even cried! 24 hours later, I took the affair deeper underground.

She has to end all contact with OM. If she feels no remorse, it will come when she truly releases her resentment, entitlement, justification, and score keeping. If she continues to throw up the past, then she has not let go. I did not bring it up, I just held on to it. This is one of the areas that couples often need professional help while they try to heal.

Let me quickly clarify something about the WW feeling guilty during the upside of her affair. Her heart has hardened. It has become cold, especially toward her H and the naysayers. However, she knows right from wrong! Her attitude is, "I don't care if it's wrong, this is what I want". There was a song by Barbara Mandrell, "If Loving You is Wrong, then I Don't Want to be Right". Talk about a song of wayward attitudes!

Anyway, back to making a decision to do the right thing. Before I actually made that decision, I told one of my mentors that I felt as if I had stayed in my M for the sake of my children, and now was I suppose to sacrifice my last chance at happiness for the sake of my grandchildren.......was there no time that I could do something for my sake? Good lord, that embarrasses me, today. It shows the sheer selfish mindset of a wayward wife who saw herself as a victim of an unhappy MR. Although I don't often recommend MC for those who are wayward (b/c there are many who will encourage the wayward to divorce and to find what makes you happy), advice (good or bad) can reach the wayward. Many MC's encourage the H to pursue, have date nights, and that type of nonsense. This is waywardness we are talking about, and that kind of advice is not the type that 's needed. It's better if the timing is right and there is a therapist who understands the wayward mindset. What I mean by the timing being right, is that I had willingly come to the board, in search of help. I was at a crossroad, and wanted someone to tell me why I should stay in my M. I wanted more than dime store "stuff" that I had read for years. If you could have seen how many books I read over the years! Btw, before finding this forum, I had even went to a highly recommended counselor in my area. Upon hearing about my affair, she immediately told me I had done nothing wrong! What? Of course I had! I was wayward, but I had enough sense to know right from wrong. I never returned for a follow up session.

I had to make a decision. Would that decision be based on what I was feeling, or would it be based on what I knew was the "right thing to do"? In spite of my negative feelings, I chose to follow the moral and spiritual values that had been planted many years ago. I don't say this so someone will think I'm exceptional, I am trying in my own weak way to explain that we often need to make decisions that our emotions don't like, and that's just a fact of life.

As a WW, making that decision was one of the hardest things, b/c it meant I had to do follow the logical, smart, and best way, instead of the easiest. It took me about two years, after making that decision, to get to the place to start working on my MR. That doesn't sound encouraging, I'm sure. I went a long time before actually telling the board members, b/c I knew how discouraging it must sound to newcomers. But finally, after seeing so many who did not understand why the WW could not respond as well as the LBH wanted, I started telling them just how long it took me. That's not to say it will take every WW that long. Each WW takes a different span of time to process what is needed.

Limerence is dangerous, IMHO, b/c of the destruction one can cause while under the influence. Another thing I want to point out is that once she comes through the state of limerence, there is absolutely no guarantee that her feelings for you will return. However, in time, it is quite possible. In some cases, the WS will D and M during their time of limerence, only to realize later their mistake. By then, the former spouse has moved on with a new life. Karma can really be a b'tch.

I hope you don't get dizzy while reading this post. Sometimes I tend to jump around with my thoughts.




M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks for your replies "Anotherstander" and "Coconut", I'll get around to replying directly to your posts soon. First I want to go into what happened last night.

I had a bit of a breakdown last night. I was playing squash with a friend and I could feel myself getting angry for no real reason. In the end I kind of snapped and smashed my racquet to bits. That ended our session. When I hopped in the car to drive home it all sort of hit me at once and I broke down, there was no stopping it. I cried like I had never before but I was also angry for the first time during all this. Just as I was going through this moment my W called to see if I wanted dinner when I got home. I could barely talk and told her that I need to go to my sisters for a bit as I wasn't good, which she could clearly hear.

I had a talk with my sister, who has been my main support through all this, and felt a lot better afterwards.

When I got home my W and I had a talk. I told her that there was only one thing I needed from her at this point, one thing that I don't think I had really asked her. All I needed was to know that, regardless of her feelings towards me ATM, did she genuinely want/wish for our MR to work. If she didn’t, there was no point in me being there anymore. In more or less words, she said yes. She said she wishes she had feelings for me, they just aren't there right now. I’m happy with this. I’ve read enough books lately to realise you can't just simply turn those feelings back on.

Looking back at our last 8 or so months I think I’ve come to realise we have been going about this all wrong. We have sort of just tried to go back to normal and see if everything fixes itself. We were trying to fix too much too quickly. We have been flailing in the dark, and failing. I told my W we need to get help, real professional help. We need guidance. She is booking in to see a psychologist and I am booked in to see one next week. I told her that I want us to go to some joint sessions together as well. She agreed to all this.

I feel a lot better after last night, like we have taken a lot of the pressure off ourselves already. I think I needed to get out what I did as I had kept it bottled up. I hope this is a step in the right direction.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

And you need to respect her feelings, because right now all your efforts are telling her "he just wants me back, as usual he is all about what HE wants and not what I want." Give her time and space.

Space is what she has asked for and I'm happy to give it to her. She has been noticeably better since I have pulled back lately.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Yeah she just sees that as you forcing your agenda on her. Remove all pressure.

I think we have had a lot of pressure on ourselves. She has definitely been feeling it as she has told me. I think last nights events have helped relieve a lot of the pressure.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Because she was trying to get your attention for months or even years. You probably saw it as complaining and nagging and shut down on her. So she quit trying, and you thought things had gotten better because she wasn't nagging anymore. So then BD happens, and you're shocked. It seems to have come out of nowhere. But for her it's been going on for a long, long time.

Correct. When I told her that she is normal/happy through the day she told me that she has felt nothing or felt numb for so long that its almost easy for her to go like that, as it has been normal for her for quite a while.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Not anytime soon, but eventually she might. This takes time.

I'm happy to give this time as long as she genuinely wants to fix the MR.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Yeah that's the alpha versus beta thing I mentioned above. You're a great housekeeper, father, etc. And that is FANTASTIC. But that's not what's going to make her attracted to you.

I feel like I can focus on myself better now after our talk last night. This is what I plan to really work on from here.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
That would be a very alpha thing to do, and surprisingly a move like that can snap the WAS out of their dream and make them realize the LBS is more important to them than they thought. But here's the thing, you can't do it as a strategy because she may very well agree. If you do it, make sure you do it because that's what you want.

She mentioned last night that maybe she needs some time apart, not in the same house, and that may shake her up and snap her out of it. I'm prepared to do this but not before we seek some professional help. If I do decide to do something like that it will be because I'm moving forward with my life, with or without her. Part of a LRT kind of thing I guess.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
But no intimacy, so I would say things are not at all normal, correct?

Normal for her as she has been feeling this way for a while, just I wasn't aware.

Thanks, your replies have been very helpful

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Coconut
My suggestion for you right now, is give her space. Be friendly, be kind, be there for her when she approaches you (validate), but give her time and space. While she's getting space to work on her, you keep working on yourself. I'd recommend reconnecting with friends and doing lots of things with them, or doing things that will help you make new friends. It will really help you to be passionate about life, and passion is sexy to her.
1. If your sleeping in the same room, do not pressure intimacy or relationship conversations at bedtime.
2. Don’t initiate any conversation talks, only have them if she initiates and make sure you validate her feelings, you don’t need to agree, but you need to verbalize that you understand how “SHE” feels about it.
3. If she questions why you’ve backed off, offer up that you’ve noticed that she’s struggling with trying to figure things out and you want to give her the space she needs to figure out what she wants.


All things discussed last night, even if I didn't mention it in my post.

We are sleeping in the same room but I have backed off. I have backed off on all forms of intimacy. I've told her that I have stopped it to give her space, and its there if she wants it.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Forbet

All I needed was to know that, regardless of her feelings towards me ATM, did she genuinely want/wish for our MR to work. If she didn’t, there was no point in me being there anymore. In more or less words, she said yes. She said she wishes she had feelings for me, they just aren't there right now. I’m happy with this. I’ve read enough books lately to realise you can't just simply turn those feelings back on.


Oh boy. Well I've seen this play out often, and it's not what you think it is.

Quote:
I told my W we need to get help, real professional help. We need guidance. She is booking in to see a psychologist and I am booked in to see one next week. I told her that I want us to go to some joint sessions together as well. She agreed to all this.


Not good. In her current state of mind, counseling is more than likely going to push her out the door. Most MC is just divorce facilitation. There's no interest or effort in saving marriages. YOU should go to C, but let your W decide whether or not she wants to go to IC and y'all should definitely not go to MC unless it's your W's idea. And I don't mean you say it and she agrees, I mean she says "I want to do this and think it would be beneficial". I really don't think she's there yet.

Quote:
I feel a lot better after last night, like we have taken a lot of the pressure off ourselves already.


I hate being the bearer of bad news but you're putting too much hope into this. It's not unusual for a WAS to agree to counseling, but they almost always use it to their advantage. You'll sit there session after session talking about how the feelings are gone until the C will say "well maybe a temporary S is a good idea" and then she will be like "YES we should try that!!!!" It has played out this way countless times, including in my sitch. The WAS goes to MC so they can check it off their list of "Things I Did to Save the Marriage But it Didn't Work Anyway".

Give her time and space. I know you said you will but it bears repeating because most LBSs think "time and space" means "don't text her for 15 minutes and then send 6 texts" and "let her go to the store by herself this time but be waiting by the door when she leaves and gets home." You really need to make yourself scarce, I can't emphasize that enough. The last thing you want to do right now is rush her into MC and pressure her with a bunch of talk about the future and such.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Not good. In her current state of mind, counseling is more than likely going to push her out the door. Most MC is just divorce facilitation. There's no interest or effort in saving marriages. YOU should go to C, but let your W decide whether or not she wants to go to IC and y'all should definitely not go to MC unless it's your W's idea. And I don't mean you say it and she agrees, I mean she says "I want to do this and think it would be beneficial". I really don't think she's there yet.

Ok point taken

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
I hate being the bearer of bad news but you're putting too much hope into this. It's not unusual for a WAS to agree to counseling, but they almost always use it to their advantage. You'll sit there session after session talking about how the feelings are gone until the C will say "well maybe a temporary S is a good idea" and then she will be like "YES we should try that!!!!" It has played out this way countless times, including in my sitch. The WAS goes to MC so they can check it off their list of "Things I Did to Save the Marriage But it Didn't Work Anyway".

She did mention the other night that maybe we need to be away from each other for a couple of weeks. Maybe thats what she needed to shake her out of this and wake up to herself...her words, not mine.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Give her time and space. I know you said you will but it bears repeating because most LBSs think "time and space" means "don't text her for 15 minutes and then send 6 texts" and "let her go to the store by herself this time but be waiting by the door when she leaves and gets home." You really need to make yourself scarce, I can't emphasize that enough. The last thing you want to do right now is rush her into MC and pressure her with a bunch of talk about the future and such.

You've made me realise that everything that we have done/tried so far or agreed to in the future has been my idea. I am giving her space in the house though. I'm already not messaging like normal through the day, or calling, or initiating conversations as I used to. Maybe I should move out for a while??

Once again, thankyou Anotherstander. You have made some good points and got me thinking.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Had another talk with my W over the weekend. She initiated the talk, not me. She started by saying she doesn't hate me and doesn't want me to hate her. She had picked up on my mood lately, which hasn't been the best. I was quite down last week. Its something I'm really focusing on fixing right now, its just bloody hard!

I spoke my mind a bit more this time, told her some hard truths and how I was really feeling. Told her I was sick of the limbo I was in and that I didn't know if I could go on much longer. Told her how everything we have been trying over the past 8 months or so has been my idea, nothing has come from her. How when I think back, she hasn't really shown me that she is willing to try everything and fight to fix the MR. It's all come from me.

At one point she broke down a bit, gave me a long hug and sobbed "what have I done". I wasn't trying to upset her or make her feel bad, I'm just sick of the whole situation and let her know how I was feeling. At no point did I ask to try anything, plead her to stay, beg etc. I have probably done this, in one way or another, when we have talked in the past. It wasn't a heated discussion at all, was completely civil.

She moved into the spare bedroom a couple of nights before this. She wants space. I hear that loud and clear. I on the other hand don't want to feel like [censored] anymore. I am really trying this week to pick myself up and focus on me. I'm mentally preparing myself for all this to not work out. Trying to anyways. I'm seeing my psychologist this week so see what that brings.

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
When a wayward spouse wants space 99.999% of the time that means they want to pursue a relationship with someone else but want you to sit patiently and wait, as their plan B, in case the new thing doesn't work out. The question then becomes, do you accept being plan B? Do you accept knowing that you'll do if something better doesn't pan out for her? These are things you have to get out in the open right now or resentments will grow like cancer. She's still all in on the wayward mindset right now. Deep in the fog. Zero remorse. Guilt, yes. Remorse, no.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: TxHubby
When a wayward spouse wants space 99.999% of the time that means they want to pursue a relationship with someone else but want you to sit patiently and wait, as their plan B, in case the new thing doesn't work out. The question then becomes, do you accept being plan B? Do you accept knowing that you'll do if something better doesn't pan out for her? These are things you have to get out in the open right now or resentments will grow like cancer. She's still all in on the wayward mindset right now. Deep in the fog. Zero remorse. Guilt, yes. Remorse, no.

I agree with this except that mostly that relationship is a fantasy.
So there are times that it is not even with real people but just all in their head.
Real people can not compete with fantasy because we all have warts and wrinkles.
An affair partner can come in many forms and the fantasy is always better than the real facts of it.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Forbet

She did mention the other night that maybe we need to be away from each other for a couple of weeks. Maybe thats what she needed to shake her out of this and wake up to herself...her words, not mine.


That's the WAW's way of letting the LBS down slowly. She doesn't want time away, she just wants out. Period. She doesn't want to hurt you though, so she thinks talking about "time away" won't upset you as much because it's tinged with hope that she will want to return.

Originally Posted By: Forbet
You've made me realise that everything that we have done/tried so far or agreed to in the future has been my idea. I am giving her space in the house though. I'm already not messaging like normal through the day, or calling, or initiating conversations as I used to. Maybe I should move out for a while??


First, don't move out!!! The WAS needs to feel the impact of what they're doing, so if separation happens the WAS should be the one to go, and have to move their stuff, and deal with finding a place, etc. etc. She has to learn to miss you and she's more likely to if she has to move.

Second, you've been trying to save things and good on you for that. But hopefully you see now that it hasn't worked and won't work. To her it all just looks like pressure and pressure is what pushes the WAS out the door. Look at Sandi's rules again and live those rules. No talk about the future. No pressure. No following her around. No frequent calling and texting. Act "as if". Etc.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2230603

Originally Posted By: Forbet
Had another talk with my W over the weekend. She initiated the talk, not me. She started by saying she doesn't hate me and doesn't want me to hate her. She had picked up on my mood lately, which hasn't been the best. I was quite down last week. Its something I'm really focusing on fixing right now, its just bloody hard!


It is super hard, and I'm very sorry you're going through it! It is a life-changing experience. You will emerge better and stronger, but it takes a while to get there. I'm sure you feel like you needed to have that talk, but the R talks need to stop (see Sandi's rules).

Originally Posted By: Forbet
I spoke my mind a bit more this time, told her some hard truths and how I was really feeling. Told her I was sick of the limbo I was in and that I didn't know if I could go on much longer.


OK well that's actually a good lead-in to going dim on her. Time to embrace DB and Sandi's rules and really get serious about it. Between that and what you said above, your W will start thinking that maybe you're not going to wait around as plan B after all and that might worry her. I'm not trying to get your hopes up for an immediate reconciliation, but over time, it could happen!


Originally Posted By: Forbet
At one point she broke down a bit, gave me a long hug and sobbed "what have I done".


Like TX said, that's the guilt talking. She has no remorse because she thinks she's doing the right thing for both of you. So for her it's still full steam ahead even though she does feel bad about it. Not sure if you read other threads here but pay particular attention to Sandi's posts. She was a WAW and she gives some really interesting insight into what is going on in a WAW's head while they're in the fog. They feel bad and their emotions are all over the place, but at the same time they are resolute and without remorse.

Originally Posted By: Forbet
I wasn't trying to upset her or make her feel bad, I'm just sick of the whole situation and let her know how I was feeling. At no point did I ask to try anything, plead her to stay, beg etc. I have probably done this, in one way or another, when we have talked in the past. It wasn't a heated discussion at all, was completely civil.


Overall the convo wasn't a bad one, but again it's time to table all R talks. You both need time and space to think about things now. In house separations are very, very tough. Just try to find things to do out of the house to really give her space.

Originally Posted By: Forbet
I on the other hand don't want to feel like [censored] anymore. I am really trying this week to pick myself up and focus on me. I'm mentally preparing myself for all this to not work out.


I think we can all relate to your sentiments about not wanting to suffer anymore! I'm sorry to say though, there's no quick fix. If you leave you won't feel better. If you kick her out you won't feel better. If you push for D you won't feel better. Just hang in there and take things a day at a time for now. Just try to do things to take your mind off your W. The more you can give her space and do things independently of her the better you both will start to feel.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Cadet
I agree with this except that mostly that relationship is a fantasy. So there are times that it is not even with real people but just all in their head. Real people can not compete with fantasy because we all have warts and wrinkles. An affair partner can come in many forms and the fantasy is always better than the real facts of it.

I'm no psychologist/counselor but I do believe that she is still grieving the A in one way or another. Not necessarily the OM but the A feelings and emotions. While she is still going through that there is zero chance she will ever feel anything for me.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
There is one thing, re: Sandi's rules, that I am having trouble with. I don't know how to work this one atm. My W loves it when we do things together as a family. The talk we had the other night was after getting home from a family event with a whole heap of our friends. (This had been oprganised/booked for a long time). We had a good night. My W said she loved how we were that night. How our conversations were, how we interacted with each other etc. She loves doing things together with me and the kids.

Sandi's rules kind of suggest that I should put a stop to such things? With my W anyways. I feel that doing that would be detrimental to our MR and push my W further away? Spending more time with my kids and family is something I have wanted to change in myself for a long time. I have really worked hard and improved on in it in the past 8 months. If I start pulling away from it and cutting her out, wont that seem like I am falling back into my old ways?

Now I can see the arguments for it as well. This is creating a comfortable "family" life for her atm. Pulling away from family events together will likely be a shock to her system and make her start to realize that things like that will be going away and make her really think and question the path she is choosing.

Kids make all this even harder. How do I handle this situation?

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,121
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,121
Hello Forbet,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,509
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,509
It really depends on the state of the A, if it's over then you support her and do the things she likes, family time, but not pressure her. If it's not over, then you won't be in an open M, and don't do those things..

I'm not saying jump back in to a MR with her as soon as she's out of the A, but show her that if she stays out of the A, there are benefits, good times to be had.


M - 9 1/2 years
5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA
10/31/16 - We sold house
01/10/18 - D Finalized
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
The A is definitely over but I think she is still grieving the feelings she had during the A. I think she is looking for something that doesn't exist outside of an A. If that makes sense??

The way I have been handling family time is to agree to things when she suggests them. I haven't been the one coming up with ideas or plans to do things as a family. I guess thats how I am giving her her space with it.

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Forbet,

Go ahead and include W in the family plans. If the A is truly over and she is going through withdrawls, then this will help her to get over that issue. You need to do what you can to secure her place in the family.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: TxHubby
When a wayward spouse wants space 99.999% of the time that means they want to pursue a relationship with someone else but want you to sit patiently and wait, as their plan B, in case the new thing doesn't work out. The question then becomes, do you accept being plan B? Do you accept knowing that you'll do if something better doesn't pan out for her? These are things you have to get out in the open right now or resentments will grow like cancer. She's still all in on the wayward mindset right now. Deep in the fog. Zero remorse. Guilt, yes. Remorse, no.

I agree with this except that mostly that relationship is a fantasy.
So there are times that it is not even with real people but just all in their head.
Real people can not compete with fantasy because we all have warts and wrinkles.
An affair partner can come in many forms and the fantasy is always better than the real facts of it.


I agree 100%. Real relationships with bills to pay, jobs to work, kids to raise, etc. can never compete with a fantasy relationship. The fantasy relationship is always "perfect"....until it isn't.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
Originally Posted By: Forbet
I think she is looking for something that doesn't exist outside of an A. If that makes sense??


It makes perfect sense. She wants to live a fantasy. Real life isn't near as glamorous and is full of challenges. Hopefully she wises up and realizes fantasies are just that and real life is whatever you make of it. I hope she realizes that before she ruins the best thing in her life.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
W initiated another talk tonight, asking how I was....

How do you not give up? Because I think I'm giving up. I told her I'm done, we'll sell the house and she can go do whatever she needs to do. I'm done being in this limbo. She said that this is something she needs to go through otherwise she may always be wondering "what if" in the future. The conversation just kind of ended as I was getting the shits, and she walked off to have a shower.

It's just blow after blow and I can't do it anymore. I hate what she has done and I hate what she is doing to our family. It seems so selfish!

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
Forbet, I can relate to all of this. I feel like our situations are very similar. I feel like I am done all the time. Then I think about how forcing the issue one way or another won't REALLY change how I feel. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this...it just [censored]!!

My issue is time. I feel my wife making small steps in the right direction. I feel like if I can just hang on and keep up with things (GAL, DB, etc) that she will come around in time. What I am not sure of is how long it will be before I just don't want to anymore. I mean...even if she does come around, how will I feel about her at that point. I have been trying to talk myself in to wanting to keep trying by reminding myself of the good times and looking at pictures of us happy together. Sometimes that makes me sad, but I also feel that if I didn't do it every once in a while I would lose site over why I want to work it out to begin with.

I am not sure if I have any advice for you other than to say that you aren't alone...I'm feeling it with you. I think sometimes you just have to sit still and calm yourself in the eye of the storm.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 310
S
SJW Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 310
When you're really done you will know it. You obviously aren't done so you need to regroup take a step back and breathe. Take some time out to focus back on you not on her and what she's done/doing. When the time comes you will know.


Me 46 H 39
M 11 T 14
S 10 DO 8
ILYBNILWY 11.06.17
Separate rooms 11.06.17
ILW OW A ongoing 12.06.17
Kicked H out 23.6.17
H came home 20.8.17



Tomorrow is another day
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 303
Likes: 7
I agree with SJW. You'll know when you are done. If you aren't sure...then you aren't done. You will keep doing this until you can't, because that's exactly as long as you can do it.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: sjohns6
I am not sure if I have any advice for you other than to say that you aren't alone...I'm feeling it with you. I think sometimes you just have to sit still and calm yourself in the eye of the storm.

I think you are right there. Its just getting to me lately and I'm getting frustrated and angry. I need to take a step back. I think I'm primed for a 180/Sandi's rules right about now. Really going to focus on doing what I need to do for myself for once.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Well she is full steam ahead. Called the solictor for selling the house today. Is organising to get some real estate agents in to value the house. Gave me the papers to sign so she can get some government pay assistance. We'll be officially separated soon.

Right now it's not really hurting. I'm more frustrated and angry but also kind of relieved. Nothing is going to change while living together. I guess I'm just sick of this. I know the hurt will come though.

I'm trying to 180/Sandi's rules for myself now. Of course I'm hopeful that it will bring her back, but primarily doing it for me. Honestly, I've lost a lot of hope that she will come back lately.

Some tough times ahead....

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Forbet

Right now it's not really hurting. I'm more frustrated and angry but also kind of relieved. Nothing is going to change while living together. I guess I'm just sick of this. I know the hurt will come though.


I think you are right, once a WAW gets to this point there's really not much point in staying together because they really can't go on their journey of discovery until separation. So this may actually be a good thing, a step forward. It'll help you detach as well. I know it hurts and I'm sorry you're having to go through those emotions. And it'll be really difficult at first, but I promise it does get better. Separation has a way of allowing you to take your focus off your sitch and put it on yourself.

Quote:
Honestly, I've lost a lot of hope that she will come back lately.


No reason at all to give up hope. A lot of WAWs discover that once they move out, their fantasy really was a fantasy after all. Their dreams of a new and improved life usually don't come true. Then they have to look inside to see where the hurt and pain is really coming from, and that's the journey they should have been on in the first place.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 906
Originally Posted By: Forbet
[quote=sjohns6]I need to take a step back. I think I'm primed for a 180/Sandi's rules right about now. Really going to focus on doing what I need to do for myself for once.


Yes, this. Exactly this. If you're frustrated and angry then you're not doing it right.



The future is as bright as you demand it be.
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Forbet,

That's it right there. Focus on yourself. And hopefully everything will work out. If not, then you will at least be ready for what comes next.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: TxHubby
Yes, this. Exactly this. If you're frustrated and angry then you're not doing it right.

Its hard not to be, really hard, but I'm trying.

This is going to get harder for her soon. When I tell my friends that we are separating again, I wont be holding back the reason why. This isn't out of spite or me trying to be vengeful, its that I'm not going to be part of this shitty little secret anymore. There will be blow back for my W that I cant control and have no desire to.

I have just read "Healing from Infidelity" by MWD and in it she says to be careful who we expose the A to as if my W and I do reconcile in the future, we only want friends who are supportive of our marriage to know what really happened.

So, I wont be going out with a big post on facebook or anything but will be letting my close family and friends know the reasons why.

Thoughts? Is this the right way to go about it?

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Having one of those "its really happening" moments again. Wondering if I am doing everything right.

W initiated a talk, primarily about money, to see if we could afford for her to move out into her own place while I stay till the house sells. She mentioned again how she hates seeing me down. How she hates crying everyday so just needs to get out. She said she is powering through with all this because I told her I was done living in limbo the last time we discussed things.

We didn't dwell on much R talk and I didn't get emotional like she did. I mentioned that I did it as I am thinking of myself for the first time in all of this. Told her that she knows where I stand, what I want, which is not this, but the further she pushes me away the harder it will be for me to come back.

I cancelled a dinner together that we had had planned for a while. She asked about it, I said that was something I wanted to do as a married couple. If we are separated and not a "couple" then I guess we don't do things like that anymore.

Now I find myself sitting her at work wondering if I am doing things right. It just feels so wrong to go along with all this, giving her space when I want the complete opposite. I can only hope she snaps out of it one day before its too late.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 454
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 454
The point really is to detach. Separation helps a lot. I moved out last week. I am not emotional and thinking about hope etc much less, pretty much only when I start googling and reading stuff/When commenting here. At work I'm not even thinking about her.

The point of the 180 is to get yourself back, not your wife. She does what she does and you can't control it. Pursuing would only get her back if she felt guilty enough to override the decision, in which case the relationship would never last long. Your old relationship is dead. She needs to walk the path herself and see what she really wants. Realize how she contributed to the fall of the marriage. Meanwhile you make yourself the best man ever. Someone who is happy and determined to go through life whatever happens.

There really is no guarantee that you get back together. We need to support each other and just keep improving ourselves. Better days will come! Write, write and write.


In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced
2 young kids
new relationship
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Hi Forbet, so sorry to read about your M problems. At this particular time in your stitch, I suggest you start living as if the two of you are physically separated. You need to GAL like there's no tomorrow. Your heart won't be in it, but it's an important action that works in positive ways.

Don't tell her what I am telling you. You just start living it. Living as if you are separated/divorced means you do not give your W details about GAL. Most women are curious and want details about what their H does, and most of all.......who was there with him or who he saw. Even a W who thinks she no longer wants him, finds it difficult to not ask wifey questions. However, she is setting you free, and she no longer wants to be your W.......so, she loses the right to gets answers to her nosy questions. Whenever she asks personal questions and you aren't sure how to answer, learn to just look at her with a tiny little smile creeping around your mouth, as if to say......"Really?".....and then shake your head just a little (as if amazed she has the audacity to ask) and move on to doing something else. Never act as if it makes you angry, and don't get sarcastic with her.

This may sound foolish, when comparing to the seriousness of your stitch. However, it can be affective when it hits her that she no longer has any control over what you do, when you do it, where you do it, how much you do it, or who you do it with. Let me be perfectly clear that you never lie to her! You just give vague answers to her questions. You know, much in how you would give a little old neighbor lady who was asking nosey questions, all while you are trying to get away from her.

As long as she can reach you by your cell phone (in case of an emergency), that's all that's necessary for her to know. This particular action has a two-fold purpose. First, of course, is to build up your self esteem and be around people who want to be with you.....and doing things you want to do. Every person who reports a healthy outcome, contributes most of it to getting a life that is not dependent on spouse/family. Secondly, it can be a real eye opener for your W. Not that it's going to redirect her decisions right away, but it can begin to plant a seed of doubt about her choices to leave the M.

I won't take up a lot of time explaining at the moment, but the one thing that most WW's have not honestly given much thought........is that her H may not be interested in sticking around to be her backup plan......especially when there has been a third party involved. She sees her H as always being there and remaining her "friend". Like you, many H's even use the phrase to tell their WW, "While you decide what you want"........which is basically saying you are acting as if you are available to be her backup plan. So, it's important that your actions relate to her that it's no longer about what she wants. From this point forward (until reconciliation) you are not waiting around to see what she decides. Remember, you don't voice this message, you live it.

Usually, the WW is not seeing herself being replaced in his heart/life. It actually makes some WW's angry that he seems so happy after the decision to split. There is a reason for it. She thinks her H will pine away for her, while she lives a lovely life without him. You see, her mind is filled with a fantasy, and therefore, she is not prepared for the reality of the consequences her decisions bring. One of those realities should be to see herself losing her H. This can be accomplished without him getting involved with another woman. She can lose your personal interest in being with her. That's the killer.

Currently, she views this picture with her being the one who dumped the H, so it's quite a shock to see that he is dumping her. To the logical minded person, this may sound immature. Nevertheless, that is an example of the wayward mindset. Therefore, don't say something poetic about always being there for her, or how she can call you anytime she has a problem, or that you will always love her no matter what she does, etc. It sounds sweet, but a WW does not need to hear these type of responses from her H. She is already self-centered and feels entitled. Don't help her take further advantage of you, and don't recuse her when reality goes knocking on her door. Reality is the wrecking ball that destroys her fantasy.

To be clear, I am not suggesting you run out and start dating. Don't intentionally try to make her jealous, b/c she'll see through it. No, I am only giving you a very brief explanation of how being a little mysterious and getting a life can affect her. The main thing is just to do it for the benefits you gain from it.

Since she wants a separation, I suggest you not participate in her family traditions/occasions. Don't celebrate her birthday or the wedding anniversary. Don't sweat over the little things. Ask yourself if you would do it years from now when both of you have new spouses and new in-laws. (Not that you will be M to someone else.......but just to use as a temporary guide in some of these day to day decisions). Although these actions may not be what your heart wants, and it may seem like anything but saving your M............these are actions that present a realistic picture of life after S/D. Your WW will take notice, and whenever the results do not benefit her......she won't like it. If you have the habit of pleasing your W (for whatever reason) you must break it. In a normal, loving, balanced relationship, it is natural to want to please the spouse. It becomes unbalanced when (1) the H basically stops having a voice, becomes passive, and all his decisions/actions are according to the desires of his W...................or, (2) when the W develops an entitled attitude and becomes demanding, moody, and manipulative.

The relationship talks must stop. You can't believe what she says, and she won't hear your words. However, she will watch everything you do. Most newcomers cannot understand how they can work out the marriage problems if they don't talk about it. Currently, nothing can be resolved in a conversation.........b/c the two of you are in different places. You cannot reason with insanity or a WW. The more you try to persuade her, the faster she'll run. Don't try to pull back on the rope you have tied to her. Just let it go.

I'm not pushing divorce, in case you wonder. I believe "timing" is important. She has to go through a process, and the harder you work to stop it......the longer it will take for her to go through it. The fastest way is to emotionally let her go. You don't have to tell her, b/c she'll sense it. Will it prevent her living with another man? Who knows! Some WW's have come to the board, begging for help b/c their betrayed H had left. As soon as the H discovered the A, he was out of there! No talk, no discussion, no waiting around.......he was gone. It immediately reversed everything. Her wayward mindset came to a halt, and she was pursuing him, b/c she realized what she really wanted. Human nature........it's a peculiar thing. smile


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Thank you for taking the time to write that huge reply Sandi2, it really does help. I am coming around to what I must do. Two steps forward and one step back. Its hard and takes time, but I am working on it daily.

I have found myself lately starting feel better about myself. Starting to say to myself that I deserve better, that I don't deserve to have been treated the way I had. That I can move on, that I don't need my W. Just some things I have noticed that have made me realise that my W is still somewhat in the fog, but its been enough to give me strength to start moving on.

Of course I still hope that me doing that will make her come to her senses, I mean, almost all LBH would be hoping, in the back of their mind, that doing a 180 would do that. But I am seeing the benefits of doing it to prepare myself for the future without her now.

Thanks again to everyone for their replies. They are helping.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
F
Forbet Offline OP
New Member
OP Offline
New Member
F
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Feeling pretty crap today. I have been seeing some of my/our close friends the past week and telling them that we are separated and that my W had an A. Seeing them react has been hard. Some of them were really close to my W and were quite hurt at what she did.

I went a full day no contact yesterday and I feel like crap today because of it. I know this is what I have to do but its so hard. I miss her....

I flip back and forth throughout the day from hurt to angry to sad to happy to content etc. I guess its kind of sinking in as I am trying to put some distance between us.

Anyways, just dumping some thoughts out of my head...

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 815
Forbet,

I truly get what your going through. Personally tjere have been tomes where I habe had those same feelings multiples times in a day. Honestly I wonder how I got anything accomplished. And I actually still stay on the same home as W. It's going to be like this for awhile, but once you get fed up lile I am now. This various feelings won't be like they are today.


MR: 15 T:17
Me: 37 W: 34
S14
BD/PA/EA: 12/2016
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard