WW in A; Broke NC promise; Dropping Rope-3rd thred

[PEW1974]

TxHubby,

I know a lot of people have been asking the same thing but if you have a chance can you take a look at my stitch. I am in a similar situation with an in house separation. My wife has been doing her own thing and i have been trying to better myself and GAL. I am at a point where I thought leaving might be the best option but do you think staying under the same roof helped? Thank you for any input you can provide. I found your story to be so inspiring.

[TxHubby]

TxHubby,

I know a lot of people have been asking the same thing but if you have a chance can you take a look at my stitch. I am in a similar situation with an in house separation. My wife has been doing her own thing and i have been trying to better myself and GAL. I am at a point where I thought leaving might be the best option but do you think staying under the same roof helped? Thank you for any input you can provide. I found your story to be so inspiring.

I think it helped me to stay because it gave her a front row seat to my great new life and the positive changes I was making. She could also start to see that I no longer cared what she was doing. That could also work if you're physically separated but the front row seat, I believe, is more effective. You have to be really "as if" around the house. Have enough going on for real in your life that you have very little time to concern yourself with her. You should get a response from that. I did. Most do.

[hoosjim]

Thanks, TxHubby, that is all really great insight. And again I am so happy that you appeared to have weathered the very long storm and come through the other side.

I came to find out she was out playing online and had met at least one other person, maybe more.

This is one of the things that makes it harder for me in my sitch, I think, on a number of levels: My wife is not in full-blown "girls gone wild", sleeping around with everyone, etc. mode. In my mind, it might almost be easier if she were. Easier for me to deal with and easier for her to move past. Instead, she seems to have "fallen" for one guy. Perhaps sees it as an "exit affair", but definitely just the one guy. I did quite a bit of snooping at one point and on more than one occasion heard her tell him (though they did have several explicit sex talks) that "it's NOT all about the sex." She wants "intimacy", too, and that "spark" of romance (she became a major consumer of romance novels and hallmark channel romance movies during her long period of being neglected, and had always been soap opera fan.) So, while the WW mindset Sandi describes (resentment, rebellion, disrespect) is DEFINITELY there, and while she IS more inclined these days to go out with her separated friend (bff who is MY best friends separated W) than with any of her married friends, and does, in general, want to "go out" more than she had been, she is not all hot and bothered to just sleep around with anyone. She pretty much feels, to all appearances, that OM is her "soul mate" and ticket to happiness. Which is, IMHO, a pretty tough thing to overcome, especially since the relationship, at least up until her efforts of the past couple of weeks, had just continued to grow and grow. And, to be honest, why the guy IS a low-life (divorced once due to his own infidelity, tried to convince me to hire a hooker for my teenaged son when we were still friends, sketchy job, serial drinker and womanizer, not to mention pursuer of married women and friends' wives) he DOES check alot of her current "boxes"-- makes her laugh, makes her feel beautiful/wanted, spontaneous, likes music, rides a motorcycle, former athlete (my wife was a HS and college athlete), and more. She just really made a connection with him. Yes, granted because of her wayward mindset, but... I think this is a sitch where it will be much less likely for W to take a look at what she's doing and say "this is incredibly destructive and I need to stop." She thinks she's in a love affair (though, TBH, I have never heard her say the word "love") and wants to run away with this guy (or at least that's what she said two and a half weeks ago talking to him).

So now she's apparently making this effort. Cutting contact (at least as far as I know), trying to hang out with me some, etc. And, while I am fairly glad that she has taken those steps, it just feels too soon. She's clearly still sulky/turmoiled/conflicted, obviously does not have any "romantic" feelings towards me, etc. Even if the "no contact" holds up, this is kind of an awkward spot to be in. Feel like I should be demanding some "proof" at this point (and I actually have so demanded), but in terms of interacting with her, not sure where the line is. There was a poster GaBulldog who posted quite a bit of stuff a while back, and had added some nuances to Sandi's 37 rules particularly concerning WWs who had achieved "No Contact." Alot of those nuances concerned not just abandoning them at that point to their wayward mindsets but to try to "be around" and find ways to "occupy their time" some but still without pushing the MR angle/discussions. The nuances even allowed for "nights out" at noisy bars just to get out of the house and ease the pressure without any R talk. Idunno... Alot of that kind of made sense to read, but... I also feel like my own GAL and detachment efforts were and are not fully mature. I have certainly not reached a place of full detachment, and while me W has had time and opportunity enough to notice my changes and my budding new lifestyle, there has not, apparently, been enough time for her to become "attracted" to it (probably due to the dual factors of lingering feelings for OM as well as just not enough time of seeing my changes.)

So im conflicted. The better part of me wants to stick to my guns on this boundary, demand some sort of tangible/concrete accountability from her if she wants to keep trying and, if she doesn't or if I otherwise feel I can't trust her, completely drop the rope (with or without separation, I can see the arguments on both sides, there). OTOH, if she is willing to try to explore our relationship (and, right now, that would not be for "love" but just because of the family, the kids, and because she'd think it was the "right" thing to do and that Maybe, even though she doubts the likelihood of it, we could eventually rekindle something romantic), then part of me's thinking I SHOULD be open to spending some time with her, etc, etc, at least in the sense suggested by GaBulldog.

But by far the vast bulk of experience and knowledge on this site seems to be saying the ONLY way she comes back is if I fully detach and she actively pursues me... which has definitely NOT happened yet.

So maybe Im answering my own questions...

[hoosjim]

And, additional thought, not that it offers me any easier a path out of this, but... Quite possible that I manipulated/controlled "us" into this situation. Her trying a "no contact" that her heart is not really into, without feeling the full remorse that would allow her to move into a productive counselling dynamic, and without having had time to really "miss" me, buy into my changes and truly want to come after me AND, on my side, without me having achieved the full level of detachment I likely need to have a fully healthy relationship with both her and with myself.

Of course, stepping back now, especially if she is maintaining the "no contact" is going to look pretty jerk-ish. As would, I imagine, me leaving her by herself all the time stewing at home in her WW mindset while I am off gallavanting around improving my life and having fun. Perhaps the answer is just to acknowledge that we are "not ready" right now, that we should spend some time on ourselves, with the continued understanding that I am not going to live with any further infidelities as long as we remain married/cohabitating.

[TxHubby]

I'm with you 100%. I too would no longer tolerate a cheating spouse. That's a firm, immovable, boundary for me. It appears to be for you too. Nothing wrong at all with that. To be told by your spouse they want to work on your M but at the same time staying in contact with their AP is just silly and a waste of your time. Once I found my strength I no longer tolerated that because I was being fed the same line of bull. BTW, I wouldn't worry about them running off together because even though it's not all about sex for her, there's a good chance that it is for him even if he says otherwise. We know men. Most men wouldn't want to get serious with a woman they're screwing that is cheating on her husband because she's not the marrying kind. He wants sex, and will agree with whatever she says that will keep the sex spigot going, but he probably doesn't want to marry your wife. Who would? At this point if you weren't married, and she behaved this way, you probably wouldn't want to marry her either. Neither would I.

Anyway, once I had had enough of working on a marriage with a cheating spouse I moved forward with D proceedings. I realized I was worth too much to tolerate that. I had options and I was going to explore them. This worked for me. It doesn't work for everyone but it is something to consider. Whether you file for D or not does not mean you can't enforce a strict boundary of NO AP's!!!

[25yearsmlc]

hoosjim

is the reason you leave or have her get her own place, financial or because you fear the chances of a recon are decreased?

I ask b/c it Seems clear to me you and your w need enough space apart, for her to notice your changes and to fear losing the new you.

The concern that you'll push her into OM's arms is going to be there for a long time no matter what option you take.

It is too soon to expect her to feel the way you want her to feel, which is why she told you that she's not attracted to you. Yes she enjoyed the power of seeing you attracted to her. But that's part of the underlying issues you guys had before hand.

(I also thought you agreed not to drink around her? May I suggest again, not drinking so much at all, for 90 days? Just to avoid the trap that lies there.)


Anyhow, I'm just trying to help you figure a way to create mystery and detachment that is real and noticeable and I cannot see it happening with you so much into her head and not into your own GAL for real.

Circular discussions about boundaries and no contact just seem a little short sighted.

[25yearsmlc]

Ps

Hoosjim,

while I think Txhubby makes a valid argument for his own in house sep, it's not really the same situation.

Plus, while some can do the "front row seat" changes, i think most of us need some geography to detach, and make the changes noticeable.

Otherwise the changes can be too incremental to notice, and besides, you can't put on your highlight reels of GAL with your w right there. Your w w will see you on a daily basis, obsessing, spying, backslides and all.

This really boils down to what you can pull off, which is all about detachment and GAL for real, not for your w. I have witnessed the spinning on this, the spying & obsessing and drinking, and then repeating.


I guess I'm not clear on what "working on the M" means to you and your wife.

And are you 2 clear on that?

[hoosjim]

Plus, while some can do the "front row seat" changes, i think most of us need some geography to detach, and make the changes noticeable.

Full separation really puts you behind the 8 ball and the numbers bear that out. Like 90% failure.

[Ginger1]

Plus, while some can do the "front row seat" changes, i think most of us need some geography to detach, and make the changes noticeable.

Full separation really puts you behind the 8 ball and the numbers bear that out. Like 90% failure.

Where did you get that statistic?

From what I've seen in the many years I have been here, recons don't happen until there is full separation. Aside from TXHubby, I haven't known one DB'er to recon while living in the same home.

[hoosjim]

From what I've seen in the many years I have been here, recons don't happen until there is full separation. Aside from TXHubby, I haven't known one DB'er to recon while living in the same home.

Really? Seems to me that's actually quite common for reconciling. I am thinking what you actually meant to say was that aside from TxHubby you are not aware of any reoncilliations involving WWs that did not involve some sort of actual separation. I think there are plenty of marriages in other sitches that reconcile without a separation.

Im looking for the 90% number but cant find it. Just saw it like two weeks ago. Granted there are others. Found 80% right off the bat (which still ain't great, obviously).

Wondering what Sandi thinks, here. Seems like she preaches IHS is no separation at all, but not sure she feels like an actual separation separation is in any way "necessary", but I could be wrong. She herself did not actually separate from her H, either.

I'd like to hear others chime in on this because methinks you are overstating the case a bit. (But, then again, I could be wrong.)


I mean, and I know MWD doesn't preach any "necessity of full separation." Quite the contrary, yes? Except in the "Beyond the Last Resort" and even then it is not required, just a willingness to do so.