WW in A; Broke NC promise; Dropping Rope-3rd thred

[hoosjim]

MC wanted us to give it til Friday. I deferred to her and gave her that time-- a little over a week, but both she and W know I want out of this s-show. I figure I am not damaging my credibility too much at least to this point because I am certain W has been behaving herself since then. Today's a test, though.

[Holding]

C-Nut has an excellent point here. This is about a shift in attitude.

In both cases you're learning how to get by on your own, working on yourself, GALing. But in one case you're closing the door on your M, where you're leaving it open with the other. Which do you want?

I get that it would be satisfying to slam that door. It might help you feel stronger and better about yourself in the moment. But it may be something you come to regret.

[hoosjim]

The WW has been known to even bargain with the H to pick up where their MR left off before the A.........but she does not want to face the fallout of her own works of destruction.

My WW has already made noises in this direction a couple of times. Once, after a lighter moment when we had both laughed long and deeply at something in the middle of one of our recent talks, she said "Sometimes I wish we could just push the pause or stop button on all of this[meaning all the hurtful and painful A and MR talk--I asked and she clarified] and just start fresh." AND then just Sunday towards the end of our long talk: "Did you ever think to yourself that maybe all of this negative and painful talk is actually hurting our relationship. Maybe if we just focused on the positive..."

[hoosjim]

In both cases you're learning how to get by on your own, working on yourself, GALing. But in one case you're closing the door on your M, where you're leaving it open with the other. Which do you want?

I get that it would be satisfying to slam that door. It might help you feel stronger and better about yourself in the moment. But it may be something you come to regret.

So that's really the question, then. How do you "enforce your boundary" while still "leaving that door open". Seems like a pretty fine line. I certainly wouldn't want her in the marital bedroom, and likely not even in the house (and Sandi seems to agree--In house separation = ultimate cake eating) yet, OTOH, once separated marriages have like a 90% failure rate, I think (yes, yes I know-- "outcome neutral"). I suppose if she doesn't know I know about additional transgressions, just that I don't trust her, I could simply rope drop within the confines of the house. i just dont see, though, if I find out she is ACTIVELY carrying on the A at some point, how I just "wait that out." Seems like she needs to think she could lose me (and that I need to think I could lose her, and still be okay.) But the two are not co-dependent. Seems like having both would be the ideal sitch.

[hoosjim]

TxHubby, thanks. Question: I know you stayed in "limbo" for a long time. Too long, I think you said. At any point did you ever actually "put your foot down" or otherwise confront your WW about the A, or did you simply say nothing, drop the rope, and move on with your life. If the latter, during that whole time, did you just live in the same house with her, effectively ignoring everything (including the A)?

[hoosjim]

Well, she called once, said she didnt think she was going. Called back 45 mins later, said she was going to go after all. I told her "look, you can do what you want, but right now given where we are I don't feel comfortable about you going out under those circumstances with bff." Some silence but, then "okay, I totally get that... I was thinking about that earlier and it was why i wasn't going to go initially."

Im already on my way out door to get a drink. gorgeous weather.

[Coconut]

Ok, I hope you learn from this you can't control her. She IS going to take her journey, how about you grow some balls and start to take yours? So far every move you've made is based on what she does, now it's time to figure out Hoos-jim... I haven't seen Jim in this sitch yet, I hope to see him soon.

Seriously, do you have a friend or family member you can stay with for a few weeks? You need space and time to level out. You need to go dark and find that path your supposed to be on. Tell us about your favorite GAL activities.

[hoosjim]

Of course I know i cant control her. What kind of idiot do you people take me for? (Ive been drinking a bit, sorry. )

So she joins me at MY watering hole, after I go out. Looking like a million dollars. If she isn't the hottest 49 year old woman in this state I don't know who is. She just kills it. Why, why why why why? I had fun, though. My peeps and the waitstaff, bartenders there know me well. new band which was awesome... met and talked to them. Was a good evening. With WW sitting across from me, laughing, talking, swaying... and occasionally dropping some kind of hint about how she wasn't attracted to me.

My LIFE can be great. I am doing so much, and learning so much, and remembering how to feel FULFILLED and AMAZING... and I can't get past the image of her blue eyes looking at me across the table. And the smell of her perfume, and the sound of her laugh. Damn the woman!

[Holding]

My LIFE can be great. I am doing so much, and learning so much, and remembering how to feel FULFILLED and AMAZING... and I can't get past the image of her blue eyes looking at me across the table. And the smell of her perfume, and the sound of her laugh. Damn the woman!

I don't have much to add except sympathy. It blows that she shows up and acts like this to you. I'd love to hear a female perspective on why she would do this.

[TxHubby]

TxHubby, thanks. Question: I know you stayed in "limbo" for a long time. Too long, I think you said. At any point did you ever actually "put your foot down" or otherwise confront your WW about the A, or did you simply say nothing, drop the rope, and move on with your life. If the latter, during that whole time, did you just live in the same house with her, effectively ignoring everything (including the A)?

I did. At first she was crying all the time and I was raging. I said if I ever saw OM (neighbor) again I'd probably kill him. Fortunately that AP fled the scene, abandoning his wife and kids, and ran off a few states away to live with his mommy. He was a "good" church-going "Christian" man and couldn't face his guilt.

A big problem is that I said I could forgive her right away. I figured after she got busted and lost her job (they worked together somewhat. His company was their external auditors and she was a department director of finance. They both got fired over the conflict of interest and inappropriate relationship) that she would snap out of this and wanted us. Nope. She stayed in the MLC/WW mindset. I came to find out she was out playing online and had met at least one other person, maybe more.

Anyway, I was very passive about the whole thing. I played the role of patient morbidly depressed hubby. I sat back waiting for her to "come around" and stop hurting me so badly. I gained weight, my career suffered, my health suffered. Our youngest child's grades started to suffer. Nobody was driving the ship anymore. WW was always glued to her devices (phone, iPad), started going out with new friends (divorced women), got really cocky about "growing" and "improving" herself (cheated, lied, got fired, great improvements right?). Strung me along. Treated me like crap.

I found this site and started implementing the principles. I'll be honest, I didn't do every step. Sometimes not all rules apply. I was patient, did nothing, but started to work on me. Improve my life. I was going in half way though. Faking a lot of it. I think she could tell. Not much changed. We drug on for over 2 years and in that third I had an awakening. I had just been prescribed Lisinopril because the doctor said my BP was dangerously high (around 205/140). I've never been on any drugs like that. It snapped me out of my own depressed hubby waiting for his wife to come back to him routine. I said F this. NOBODY is worth me dying over. I joined a gym that day. She actually tried to fuss at me for spending the money without consulting her and I took the opportunity to say I'm going to be doing a lot of things without consulting you.

I walked the walk from there on out and so can each and every one of you here. I did a self evaluation spreadsheet on Excel and graded myself on everything. I was brutally honest and didn't like what I saw. Then I made an action plan on how to improve everything I got a bad grade in. Employee, Father, Physical health, Nutrition, Emotional health, etc. I looked for a therapist that could help me plan my life POST divorce. That was my plan.

After about three months I had lost 20 lbs, dressed way better everywhere I went, got my career back on the right path, spent more time with our DD and improved that relationship, totally ignored my WW and left her to her seedy new life. I wanted no part of it. She had a front row seat to my transformation.

Rarely did I have even a minute to talk to her. I literally stopped caring what she had going on. That was the biggest thing that helped me get healthy. Before I'd see her on her phone or tablet and knew she was talking to other men and it was killing me. Literally. After my change I couldn't care less because I knew she was a sleaze and that the men she was talking to were sleazy. I wanted no part of that in my positive new life.

One night she actually tried to seduce me. That had always worked for her. It caught me off guard but my new self took over the situation and it was like I was a spectator watching me handle this with confidence and strength. I basically said no, I don't think so. I have no idea where you've been or what you're carrying these days. No thanks. That blew her mind that that is what I thought of her but it was the truth. I didn't know what kind of sleazy men she was hooking up with. I'm selective. I don't sleep with tramps. I have too much self-respect for that. That is also the moment I knew I needed to divorce this woman. The woman I used to know and married so many years ago, the great wife, mother, woman of integrity was gone and I wanted nothing to do with this WW type of woman. She was gross.

I filed for D and had her served. Her foolish pride consumed her. Her fancy new life was "great". She didn't me. I guess she thought that would manipulate me but filing wasn't a bluff. I wanted out. She kept up her show for a few months. The D was getting closer and I was ignoring her. Not on purpose but because every day my life was filled with activities. After work I'd go to the gym, go ride my bicycle, go meet with friends. Always something. No time for her. She can live in cheaterville. Her armor started to crack. She would ask me more often where I was going. I was always friendly and never combative. I'd say to work out, meet friends, whatever.

Finally she asked that one time and I said out. She said can I tag along. I said nope. As I was leaving she started sobbing and begged me to talk for a minute. Then she broke down like I've never seen a human being break down. She sobbed on the floor uncontrollably. All her cockiness was gone. All her great new cheater life with all her cheating friends was gone. Come to find out she has regretted her choices for some time but was too stubborn and prideful to admit anything. She even admitted that other women were telling her she was really screwing up and was going to lose a good man and that there would be others beating the door down to replace her. One of her "friends" actually said that she would pursue me if my wife no longer wanted me. Don't think for a second that something like that doesn't make a wayward spouse take notice. It makes you a prize to be won.

After that breakdown everything changed. I didn't really comfort her during it because I told her she has to understand that she was the person I used to care most about in this world, I would walk through the fires of hell for, but she hurt me really bad and I had to detach her from my heart for my own health. I told her I'm sorry she's hurting but I can't allow myself to be sucked back in, that I'm doing much better now, and we should move on, and that I wished her the best.

Needless to say, things changed that day. She started owning her decisions. I think she read this site or maybe Dr. Harley's but she stopped blaming everything else in her life and started looking inward. When the D was about 60 days out she asked if we can delay that, not cancel it. That was simple because our state doesn't have a long term separation required before D. You can D any time you want so I figured what the heck, and had my lawyer table the paperwork.

At this point I became the pursued and she was the pursuer. She was the one always concerned about what I was thinking, where I was going, who I was meeting. The roles had reversed because my new life and new self were way better than hers and she wanted in on it. What made her want in even more was that I was on the fence leaning toward not wanting her to be in on it. I was doing very well by then. I had gotten promoted at work, I was in great shape, and I had really positive rewarding relationships going with old and new friends. I wasn't about to let anything interfere with that. Especially a sleazy cheater. I came to find out she had stopped all that months before when she realized what she had become. She had also dropped her sleazy new friends but was too prideful to tell me. She admitted that sometimes she'd dress up and go see a movie alone just to make me think she was going out partying.

As time passed she transformed into a much better person. Even better than she was before her MLC/WW period when I thought she was amazing then.

I'm not saying that all your wives or hubbies will do this. What worked for me may not work for you. I know sometimes it's prescribed to us to do nothing and wait and see. That almost killed me. My BP was in heart attack/stroke range and I felt horrible all the time. 2 years and change is all I could take of that.

Although it was my wife's choice to "snap out of it" and work on herself, I do think seeing me moving on with a great new life was a huge part of that. I had made myself the most attractive version of me that I had ever been. I whole heartedly suggest that anyone caught in the situation that we all find ourselves in do that. If your career is dead end then get a new one or work on the one you have. I went from dead end developer with no future to the boss in just the last 2 years. If you're out of shape, get in shape. Anyone can do that, it requires no special skills. I hate working out on equipment at the gym so I do yoga, cross-fit, and even zumba on occasion. Sometimes I go swimming. Sometimes I ride my bicycle. I bought a pretty nice hybrid bike. It's good for streets and off road. I have friends and we meetup and ride this long trail in the city where we live. I won't give that up. She's now welcome to join me and she does. For a long time she wasn't welcome.

The point being is that I didn't do anything that any of you can't do. I have no special talents in life. I'm just a regular guy who went through a horrible thing like all of you are. Maybe your M will be saved, maybe it won't.

What I'll testify to is that if you do these things for yourself, you'll be fine either way that comes out. It worked for me and brought my wife out of her MLC. She doesn't talk the talk, she walks the walk. I had told her a year or so ago that I didn't believe one word out of her mouth because she had done nothing but lie for a couple of years so if she wanted any chance at all I'd watch her actions and would have to see real and permanent changes.

It's really not hard. Just become the best version of you that you've ever been. Start a spreadsheet or notebook of the things you think you need to address about yourself. If you smoke then stop today. If you're over weight then start a new diet today. If you drink too much then stop drinking today. If you're out of shape then start doing pushups, crunches, and going for walks today. If your clothes aren't "fresh" then go buy new clothes (not too many if you're going to lose weight but dressing better does make you feel better). Work on all the things that you need to and you won't have time to worry about your walk-away or cheating spouses. You'll have too many good things going on in your life to concern yourself with them.

It may work, it may not. Either way you'll be great. Did I drop the rope? Yes, I did at about 2.5 years in. For me that was too long to wait because it was causing me health issues. I think that limbo time limit is different for all of us. If it's killing you like it was me then drop the rope and move on. Fix yourself.

As for the house, we never separated. Separate rooms after I decided I didn't want her in my life any more. As long as I stayed in our master bedroom and occasionally had sex with her she was able to keep me in the limbo state that was killing me. I fixed that by moving out of that bedroom and turning down her offers of sex. I don't sleep with skanks who meet men online for sex romps.

Hopefully I answered your question and I apologize for rambling on but I'm trying to describe my situation in detail and what worked for me. The data is against all of us. By the time we get here most of us end up divorced. You have to accept that going in and don't let that possibility rule your actions. If that happens, it's ok, you'll survive it. You might be better off.

Anyway, end of ramble. Good luck.