WW in A; Broke NC promise; Dropping Rope-3rd thred

[Ginger1]

I don't know if I read all of that correctly, but you stated your boundary, she still crosses it, but nothing changes. You have to be able to go with the follow-through.

when you were all dressed up and smelling good and she asked if she could come, I think it should have been a no. Leave her wondering where you are you going.

She's still crossing your boundary, but she still gets to hang out with you...... Best of both worlds!!!

[hoosjim]

I have a strong, faith-based belief that I am supposed to be giving MC, and, in particular, THIS particular MC a shot. As long as we are "in" that process (and that may very well, as I have indicated, end tonight) and wife can commit to it (her clock runs out effectively tonight), I am going to , for the most part, play it the way she (MC) wants me to. Which means finding SOME time to be sociable/friendly/etc. W knows that I am not willing to "keep doing this". The graduation and the pendency of the MC bought a few days (and, to all appearances, she HAS cut contact-- and if she hasn't it's DEEP underground and i don't know about it) but she knows she has to make a commitment and convince me... like NOW, or i am through

[hoosjim]

And, again, not saying that I am handling this in the best possible way. I know I am making mistakes. I have a great deal of faith in this MC who is not strictly playing by the DB handbook, though alot of the core concepts she seems to be on board with, and she seems to understand the WW concept and affair addictiveness, etc., very well. At any rate, my faith in her and that process is definitely creating some overlays and muddying the waters a bit, but I am trying to stay the course the best I can. I just have a strong belief that God wants me to be giving this a shot right now so I am giving a good amount of deference to the MC. As I said, though, that mayh all end tonight/tomorrow, in which case I will probably be "going dark" or close to it.

[Coconut]

Fact is if she wants to keep up the A, in addition to FB messenger, there's a million other apps.. Even if she keeps up her end of the bargain, you still need to work on you, cause she'll have some working to do to. So giving space is vital in either scenario, and more importantly doing YOU...

[AnotherStander]

I just have a strong belief that God wants me to be giving this a shot right now so I am giving a good amount of deference to the MC.

I'm sure you've heard the one about the drowning man that kept praying to God to save him, and boats kept stopping by and offering to help and he kept saying "no I'm waiting for God to save me" and then he drowned, went to Heaven and asked God why he didn't save him and God said "who do you think sent the boats?" DB and these forums may be your boat.

[hoosjim]

That's actually one of my favorite jokes. And, yes, I actually DO believe that DB is one my boats, particularly given the set of circumstances that led me here. However, an equally... scratch that, definitely MORE bizarre set of circumstances led me to this MC. Too much to believe, especially given the particulars, that there was not some divine intent there. Now, maybe her role is to enable me to see that there is "no hope" as things currently stand to facilitate me truly dropping the rope. Or maybe she will save our M. I honestly have no idea. BUT... i AM trying to balance the two as best I can. The fact that the MC, for the most part, seems to understand and buy into the DB paramaters (and she HAS been big on encouraging me to GAL, take care of self) makes it a bit easier, but it is still a challenge in some respects as her default position has been "even if we are not in counselling, try to find some time to have fun together", which is of course contrary to the rope-dropping scenario (though I will note that there have been some well-respected posters on her, GABulldog in particular, who have talked about the importance of being available to "bounce out" and go get a "No MR discussion" drink and have some fun in a noisy bar once your WW gets to "No Contact." Now, I am probably not to full "no contact"... though I might be and am at least REALLY close. At any rate, I'll know by end of week. W signed up, on her own motion, for IC with the counselor this morning. Counselor herself has said
that there is no point no point in continuing the counselling unless W is willing to completely cut contact and end the A, (and preferably provide some sort of verification/transparency to boot to that effect). So, W will either do that in a way that I can trust (burden of proof on her) or we pull the plug on the counselling and I go dark.

[AnotherStander]

Too much to believe, especially given the particulars, that there was not some divine intent there. Now, maybe her role is to enable me to see that there is "no hope" as things currently stand to facilitate me truly dropping the rope.

Just try not to put too much hope on MC. I did and it played out just like everyone here said it would. It was too much pressure on W and led to our separation. I too thought it was an answer to my prayers, but it was definitely more of a curse than blessing in the end.

...as her default position has been "even if we are not in counselling, try to find some time to have fun together"

That's pretty typical advice early on in MC. Ours told us we needed to have a "date night" once a week. That's great advice for couples that are struggling, but not for couples where one spouse is half out the door.

Anyway I'm not saying cancel the MC, I think it would be best if you did but you obviously feel strongly about going and it's not going to be a deal-killer so give it a shot. Just try not to have high expectations that it might be a "miracle cure" for your sitch. Good luck!

[hoosjim]

It was too much pressure on W and led to our separation.

This interests me. Cant recall and I am on phone with limited search right now whether or not your wife was a WW or whether or not there was an affair. Either way, what is your take on Sandi's idea that the WW usually HAS TO feel some pressure in the form of a loss or feared/perceived loss before she will "come to her senses"?

Because my own W is definitely in a place where she is feeling "smothered/trapped" as she puts it, though largely now because the A is out in the open and she knows that I pretty much know everything and that she has to either shut it down or we're done.

[AnotherStander]

This interests me. Cant recall and I am on phone with limited search right now whether or not your wife was a WW or whether or not there was an affair.

My XW worked with a guy who found out his brother was having an A with his wife. He was crushed and XW swooped in to help him recover. Somewhere along the line she started having feelings for him but I'm not sure whether it was an IA or EA. I snooped early on like so many of us do and the conversations between them were 100% friendzone stuff, and in fact it sounded like he was pushing her to try and reconcile. I think after S that they may have had a physical fling for a while but I'm not even sure about that. Whatever it was ran its course after about a year though.

Either way, what is your take on Sandi's idea that the WW usually HAS TO feel some pressure in the form of a loss or feared/perceived loss before she will "come to her senses"?

I think Sandi is absolutely correct, but sometimes the WAW never does come to her senses so you have to prepare yourself for that as well. There just aren't any guarantees. The beauty of DB'ing is if you really do follow it, then you'll eventually win even if your M isn't saved. You'll be better, stronger, more independent and probably happier than ever before. Anyway the point is don't perform an action to hope for a certain reaction. IE, don't kick her out hoping it will make her fear the loss and come to her senses. Because she might not. Your actions should be based on what you want and not based on how you are hoping the WAS will respond. Does that make sense?

[hoosjim]

Your actions should be based on what you want and not based on how you are hoping the WAS will respond. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does, and it has, thanks. I guess that's the "fine point" or "fine line" here, isn't it? When does hoping for a particular outcome become overwhelming to your efforts to the point that you are not truly helping yourself but just being manipulative? Is it ANY hope? That movie exchange is funny because it's true-- "I want her back, but to get her back I have to not care whether or not I get her back." Taken to it's logical conclusion, that seems a BIT extreme (and is why it's supposed to be funny, I suppose.)

Can one NOT be 100% "outcome neutral" and still be an effective DB-er?