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BluWave Offline OP
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TxHub, it's hard for me to read your posts. What you describe is what I am afraid of. It makes me terribly sad to think about this happening. I have made the decision over and over to make this work, and I know that I can, but my heart often doesn't line up with my head. My H is a very good man and father. I still miss how I used to feel about him. It is the A, and our ugly separation, and this fear that I will never feel the same way about him that mainly holds me back. There are these little things about him that I don't like (as we all have) that are harder and harder to see past too.

Storm, I'm sorry buddy. I will also never fully trust another person. I don't see that as a bad thing though. We can still be vulnerable and open to love, while being realistic and protecting our hearts. I think before I missed the second piece. I will say again though, it does get better with time. Everything in life usually does, no? One of the many things that made me hopeful during Retrouvaille were the many Angel Couples that have been there before. They have been through it ALL--heart break, betrayal, and devastation. They have worked hard and committed themselves to their M and all agree the love now is better and stronger than before. They describe that this healing together creates a bond that is far more valuable than the initial years of romance/love. I hope that is true ...

C-Nut, I remember your story so well. I don't know why exactly, but I admired your character and honesty in this process. I was sad when you moved on, but also completely understand. I think some of my sadness for others is because of fears in my own sitch. I do often wonder what my life would be like if H and I D. I know I could have a beautiful life on my own. I like my independence now more than ever before. My sitch is complicated also due to children and finances. I would be foolish and selfish for several reasons to separate right now. It's hard to even explain.

There are several things that have come up recently that I have not shared. As I have said before I know that OW XH is here on the boards. I have still shared openly and honestly but there are some details I tend to leave out. Right now I have some things I would like to talk about and ask for advice on, but it feels awkward to do so without him admitting it is him. I am not sure if that makes sense.

I wish I had more hours in the day to read and post.

Feeling kind of blu today I guess.


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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BluWave Offline OP
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Henwen & Resolut, I will check out your threads and post there :-) It's very hard to stay in a loveless M. That is something we all have in common to an extent.

I am in this new and somewhat confusing place. Things are at a standstill. Not sure the best path to take. I think it's better to not make any decisions for now. I know it can't stay like this though. I wonder if I just need to resign myself to being in a M that simply functions. We can get the job done. As for all the other stuff that we hope and dream of, well that will take the back burner for now. I don't know. I don't have the bandwidth for this right now. I can't force it. And there are so many other things and people that feel like a bigger priority. It's strange to even feel that way.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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BluWave,

You've probably heard this and it probably doesn't help and is anecdotal, but I read a thread on another site by a really amazing poster who talked about his W's MLC and return. He said it took something like 3-4 years for his feelings to return once she recommitted. He expressed the same kinds of things that you are in years 1-2. I can imagine that with all the detaching the LBS does to survive these situations that it can take a long time for them to reawaken as well.

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BluWave Offline OP
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Thank you, OwnIt. That helps to think about. There is always more time. When I find myself wanting to do something (anything), I soon realize that none of it will be of benefit. That would just be me reacting out of hurt or anger.

When I read other posters and their fixation on their S--everything they do, say, their intentions, the mind reading, etc--it pains me. I wasted so, so much time on that. It doesn't change anything and it certainly doesn't help healing or moving forward. If anything it exacerbated the resentment towards H that I now need to work through.

The thing is, even if I have the returned and remorseful H, I still have all of the baggage that built up over the years. Even though we may have talked and worked though some of it, most of it, that doesn't mean the past is erased. The forgiveness piece is incredibly complex. Something holds me back. These days I don't want either option in front of me.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Hi Blu! I haven’t read your older threads but it’s nice to hear you’re piecing and on a solid path to rebuilding things! Congratulations!

Originally Posted By: BluWave
My H is a very good man and father. I still miss how I used to feel about him. It is the A, and our ugly separation, and this fear that I will never feel the same way about him that mainly holds me back. There are these little things about him that I don't like (as we all have) that are harder and harder to see past too.


My ex never cheated on me while we were married, but my GF (after D) did early on. Even though we were not (and still are not) married, we had discussed it before the incident and agreed to only see each other. The feeling of betrayal is incredible, and it makes it so hard to ever trust that person again. I broke up with her but she begged and pleaded and said it would never happen again. We’ve been dating almost 3 years and I STILL don’t trust her because of that incident. Every time I see a chummy photo on Facebook or something it just makes me wonder if she’s at it again. I’ve heard so many people say they don’t know how they can ever trust their cheating spouse again, and now I get it! It’s very difficult to regain trust after that.

Originally Posted By: BluWave
I will also never fully trust another person. I don't see that as a bad thing though. We can still be vulnerable and open to love, while being realistic and protecting our hearts.


I agree. We don’t have to build a full height wall but I think it’s only natural to build a partial height wall, and maybe it’s for good. I don’t remember ever reading a sitch here where someone was going through a 2nd BD in a 2nd relationship. Why? Well hopefully it’s because we become better spouses, but also I think it’s because we do tend to guard our hearts a little and maybe a 2nd BD isn’t a bomb so much as a firecracker or water balloon.

Originally Posted By: BluWave
of the many things that made me hopeful during Retrouvaille were the many Angel Couples that have been there before. They have been through it ALL--heart break, betrayal, and devastation. They have worked hard and committed themselves to their M and all agree the love now is better and stronger than before. They describe that this healing together creates a bond that is far more valuable than the initial years of romance/love. I hope that is true ...


I’m glad y’all were able to go, it’s a wonderful program! My ex was too far out the door by the time we went, but it was an awesome learning experience, and very emotional!

Originally Posted By: BluWave
Right now I have some things I would like to talk about and ask for advice on, but it feels awkward to do so without him admitting it is him. I am not sure if that makes sense.


Maybe create a new handle and post under that one without disclosing you’re the same person as this one?


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Blue

Please check out Esther Perels' TED talk on infidelity and healing from it. She has done a lot of empirical research. Written books on it too.

Of the couples who remain m after an A, there is a chunk who believe their m's are better, but they are different m's to the same spouse.

Also, here's a free tip --- do Not let the follow up classes for Retrovaille drop off, please. It's very important.

Don't wait to feel it first and then do the work; do the work and then you'll feel it.

make sense?

More later

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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PS

thanks for the " do some writing" feedback. I'm on it...!


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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BluWave Offline OP
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Hi AnotherS,

Thanks for stopping by :-) Yes, the betrayal part is hard to get past. I have tried to tell myself tho that if this M doesn't work in the long run, it will not be because of that one hard time. It will be a less emotional, and more logical, decision. That's hard to do because his A (and leaving me for so long) weighs in on my thoughts, feelings, and decisions. It's just there.

Unfortunately, I would not say we are on a solid path. We were. Things have changed a lot in the last several weeks. I am thinking more about separation. So much has happened and it's getting hard. I have moments where I wonder what it would be like had he not come back.

I have no doubt that XOWs XH would know immediately who I am, even if I changed my name. My story is obvious because there are not many posters that are where I am today, with piecing. I think most posters come here during separation. I think for that reason people pay attention. I don't have anything to hide from him (or anyone really), it's just awkward.

I will continue to share freely. Just feels like a neighbor peaking in the window, but I leave the curtain open anyhow. lol.

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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BluWave Offline OP
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25,

I have watched that TED Talk several times. I find it depressing. Maybe I am a hopeless romantic, but I like the idea of someone only having eyes for me. I am so monogamous in my thinking, so it's hard to understand. That also makes the forgiveness piece more complicated for me.

I just cannot see or understand how people moving through peicing, after an A, and working through this type of betrayal can have a better M than before. How??? Is that true? Have I just not given it enough time? I liked what we had before and who I thought he was.

I know you are going to tell me "no" because Retrouvaille is on the back burner. No, I have not finished the post sessions and right now I don't even want to. I have been thinking more and more about separation. Everything has changed in the past several weeks. Even having had that genuine and solid glimmer of hope does not motivate me.

I can't help but wonder what my life would have been like had he never come back. And it's not that I don't think it COULD work, it's that I don't know if this is what I want anymore.

It is starting to feel as if too much has happened, and too much has changed, and I ask myself "why?" Why am I so committed to this man and this M? I don't say this out of fear, anger, or emotions. I just have been thinking lately about my life and what kind of person I want to share it with. I don't know if he is that person.

So after the betrayal, all those little things that didn't matter so much, now have me thinking second, third, and fourth thoughts about him.

The things have that have been coming up (big and small) just feel like deal breakers. They are telling about fundamentally who he is. Or are they? I can't say right now. I can't.

So here I am--the one that has the returned and remorseful H, and honestly I question it all. The only thing that gives me pause is that I understand that decisions take time. Big decisions deserve time, processing, thinking, and then a little more time.

I am not in a good place right now...
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Originally Posted By: BluWave
25,

I have watched that TED Talk several times. I find it depressing. Maybe I am a hopeless romantic, but I like the idea of someone only having eyes for me. I am so monogamous in my thinking, so it's hard to understand. That also makes the forgiveness piece more complicated for me.

I think I do understand this^^.

My h swore, quite convincingly that he 'never cheated." That mattered to me b/c I felt we were both fundamentally loyal to each other even with conflicts.

And even as I see mountains of evidence to the contrary, a part of me still believes him...

Because I want to, and b/c I was faithful to him (though sorely tempted earlier in the m).

There is a crack in the windshield and fears that it will shatter in my face. I'm not sure how I'd get past that if I were in the situation.

OTOH the things I did wrong in our m are things I never would have expected me to do and I'm not positive how h sees those flaws.

(Actually I'm positive he sees them as glaring justifications for his behavior, come to think of it). cool

Anyhow there are 2 videos/TED talks of hers, but the one I saw made me believe some couples could get past an A and create a deeper connection, and even thrive.

I will not say if I could be in a restored m like that, a lot would depend on the circumstances & underlying crap, & his accountability, etc. I'm saying her research shows it can be done. I don't believe every success story is lying to her.



I just cannot see or understand how people moving through peicing, after an A, and working through this type of betrayal can have a better M than before. How??? Is that true? Have I just not given it enough time?

what have you tried/read done?


I liked what we had before and who I thought he was.



well, that guy went away and in his place is another guy who is a lot like your h,

Turns out, The h you idealized is actually very flawed. Like a lot of us.

Do you Want the idealized superman who may never have been real,

or the human man in front of you, who also happens to be the father of your chldren and shares a lot of history?





I know you are going to tell me "no" because Retrouvaille is on the back burner. No, I have not finished the post sessions and right now I don't even want to. I have been thinking more and more about separation. Everything has changed in the past several weeks. Even having had that genuine and solid glimmer of hope does not motivate me.

I can't help but wonder what my life would have been like had he never come back. And it's not that I don't think it COULD work, it's that I don't know if this is what I want anymore.

It is starting to feel as if too much has happened, and too much has changed, and I ask myself "why?" Why am I so committed to this man and this M? I don't say this out of fear, anger, or emotions. I just have been thinking lately about my life and what kind of person I want to share it with. I don't know if he is that person.


okay...I hear this^^. Question - what if you sep and then there is no other man in your life from this day forward? Is being alone better than being with the father of your children & with whom you have so much history? Or do you have someone else - real or fantasy - in mind? What if he is your only option?



I don't ask this^^ as a woman who hates being alone. I ask this as a contemporary & supporter of yours.



So after the betrayal, all those little things that didn't matter so much, now have me thinking second, third, and fourth thoughts about him.

The things have that have been coming up [b](big and small) just feel like deal breakers.
They are telling about fundamentally who he is. Or are they? I can't say right now. I can't.

not super clear...so, for example....are you saying the little "semi selfish" or thoughtless things he did before, that you were willing to accept - on the whole - now seem bigger? Not worth it?

OR are there some other negatives you once would let slide, that now are accumulating and or are you seeing more of them?



So here I am--the one that has the returned and remorseful H, and honestly I question it all. The only thing that gives me pause is that I understand that decisions take time. Big decisions deserve time, processing, thinking, and then a little more time.

I am not in a good place right now...

Blu


((( )))

One - anecdote that may resonate. Years ago a friend was at a workshop with me. (The EE workshop as a matter of fact). Her name is Carol and she had lost a young child some months earlier. Yet she seemed sort of "at peace" for lack of a better phrase.

I was 6-7 months pregnant at the time, & Carol's loss was utterly terrifying to me.

I finally admitted that the idea of her beautiful life being "all ruined' by the loss of a young child was too much for me to comprehend. It was beyond my ken.

But Carol is one of those Zen people who seem to have such resilience and inner contentment that I just liked being around her. Yet I was so uncomfortable, I had to ask her how on earth she was dealing with it.

I said that to me, her loss would be like a beautiful painting that someone had thrown red paint on and now this painting, i.e. her "Life", could never be beautiful again. Not with that horrible stain.

So she turns and says "Oh I see life more like a tapestry. Up close you can see the stains and frayed threads, or you can see all the textures and variations woven in,

But when you step back you can still see that on the whole, it's quite beautiful."

Maybe your m is a tapestry, Blu.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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