25yearsmlc 10 Yrs Later I File D part 3

[adinva]

Your x 25 is turning out to be like mine. In VA there is zero obligation for x's to pay for college and i've been told it's a tough sell if it goes to court. We pay for S19 through an account we had sellaved for kids college, not even enough to pay one year each but so far has covered the cost for S19 above the dinky amount of fed loans he qualified for. Then he'LL have to get private loans. Your D can get private loans? Suxx but what can you do.

I suspect that letter and the not-paying is a jab at you for requesting support. When ppl do bad things they sometimes lash out at their victim, weird but normal, somehow lets him feel justified.

Never tell kids their Dad doesn't love them. Not for you to say. Listen to and sympathize with their feelings and encourage them to express those feelings to their dad when they feel ready to. It's between them and their dad and not good for you to try to interpret him to them.

(These are just conclusions I reached facing similar H issues)

[25yearsmlc]

Your x 25 is turning out to be like mine. In VA there is zero obligation for x's to pay for college and i've been told it's a tough sell if it goes to court. We pay for S19 through an account we had sellaved for kids college, not even enough to pay one year each but so far has covered the cost for S19 above the dinky amount of fed loans he qualified for. Then he'LL have to get private loans. Your D can get private loans? Suxx but what can you do.


In CA, case law seems to say if one or both parents can afford it, we are supposed to pay for college IF it was an expectation we created and agreed to, before.
Which is true, and we did so for the older kids.

H's argument SEEMS to be that he cannot afford it as he has "retired". I'm not positive what happens when h goes back to work (assuming he isn't now, for the first time ever).

Can D get private loans? Not without a co-signer, which I guess would be ME.

Question -?? Before I let D19 quit school or take on some insane (if available) amount of debt, shouldn't I inform h's parents (FIL and step mother in law)?

They are very wealthy (and h will be inheriting a lot when his dad passes away).

is that tacky, or airing too much dirty laundry? If I share any info with FIL, how to do it?







I suspect that letter and the not-paying is a jab at you for requesting support. When ppl do bad things they sometimes lash out at their victim, weird but normal, somehow lets him feel justified.

Clearly^^^

Never tell kids their Dad doesn't love them. Not for you to say.

I would NEVER tell my kids their dad does not love them. First, I don't think that's true. Second, it would not be my place and finally, I would never tell them something like that anyhow.

My only quandary was b/c of a BFF who is into "truth at all costs" person, and while I respect that, I don't agree. (Plus, how do I "know" how h feels? He sukks as a dad right now, but that's his problem).

I'm a mother and my job is to love my kids and help them feel loved, including assuring them of their dad's love.

However, my kids have asked me quite clearly NOT to "defend" their dad OR tell them that he loves them. That's a new development. So I'll respect their boundaries but I won't translate that into saying he does NOT love them.

Make sense?


Listen to and sympathize with their feelings and encourage them to express those feelings to their dad when they feel ready to. It's between them and their dad and not good for you to try to interpret him to them.

(These are just conclusions I reached facing similar H issues)

Agreed

[NLW]

25,

Another old-timer coming out here (Hi, Advina!).

I've taken a lot from your recent posts - so thank you sincerely for taking the time to let us know about the next phase of your journey.

I am in a similar position to that described by you - and although in a different country, I suspect the MLC response will be the same.

Mine refused to pay court-ordered child support (which specifically detailed school fees).

He is self-employed and consistently maintained that he earned less than minimum wage (while travelling the world, holding memberships at exclusive clubs, and leasing a luxury car).

Child support agency tries to chase him, but he is too slippery.

My youngest son recently turned 18 and qualified for 'Adult Child Maintenance' because he is at university.
Ex-H refused to pay, as he says he doesn't earn any money.

Son now has to sue his father via a legal-aid lawyer in an attempt to get some assistance.

I know he won't pay, but like the outstanding child support payments, once 'on the books', in my country, these debts never disappear. If necessary, they are taken out of a deceased estate. If there is anything left when he dies, I think that's the only way my kids will see their money.

Our twist on Alaska is that ex-H has moved permanently to a third-world country (living in a hotel). When my son contacted him recently to give him a heads-up about his responsibility to contribute to university costs, ex-H said that he'd had to move b/c it was 'too heartbreaking for him to live in the same city as his kids (sob, sob)."

Basically, it was a case of "Poor me, my kids don't want to have anything to do with me...I think I see them around the city all the time; I can't get them out of my mind.. I feel sad. = They have made me run away."

In his defense, when asked by S18 for some support to attend university, ex-H immediately suggested S take a gap year (he was already 5 months in to first semester) and he would pay for him to come out to Cambodia and live with him. They could travel all around to neighbouring countries and have a great time!

Just no point even trying to reason with them.... It's such a strange pattern is it not?

[kml]

My ex insisted on putting college costs into the divorce agreement. Both lawyers actually advised us not to do this but he was insistent, as if he thought I wouldn't pay my share. In the end, I was so glad it was there, as I don't think I could have relied on him for anything otherwise.

As it is, if youngest son ever decides to return to college I doubt Ex will contribute as he will be over the age limit set in the agreement . I will probably delay my retirement to help him.

And yes, even with alimony ( which expires in a year) my ex takes home twice what I do, AND his wife works, he has a nice mid-six-figure income yet is always squawking like he's poor.!

[25yearsmlc]

well KML

there's no divorce agreement and so that's just not applicable. In CA, I've been told one thing (that it's a parental obligation and thus, not related to spousal support )

and I have read case law that says it depends on what the reasonable expectation of the child is and the income of the paying parent (or expected paying parent).

H is putting all his chips on the "Oh, I retired!" board.

Honestly, despite all the crap he has pulled, and the things he has said and FB posts about how HAPPY he is now and blah blah blah, so that I try to treat him as dead to me,

I actually did not see this coming. I thought he'd feel heroic about paying...boy was I wrong. I keep underestimating hs ability to see himself as a victim. And I admit I hate the OW now.

I mean, she wasn't really of significance to me before, but now I'm irked like he11. I swear to God if I were dating someone and they told me they could "no longer afford" to pay for their own kid's college, I'd be shocked. NOT okay with it and would probably stop seeing them. Period.

(Of course, maybe he'll pay for HER kids...??? I don't even know anymore...)

And mind you, this is the gay d19 who was assaulted and arrested 2 weeks ago.

Okay...I don't want to spin. It's getting really late.

Thanks guys.

Truly

[PsySara]

I am always stunned at how WAWs can shed their obligations like a snake shedding their skin. I sometimes wonder if you could travel back in time and show the WAS what kind of person they become if they would be horrified? The sad fact is they usually realize what they have done when it's way too late to make repairs. Part of me wonders if this is a symptom of first world selfishness? I rarely read about this behavior in countries where people have to scrape just to eat.

Honestly I hate OW for you. I have to ask myself what kind of low life dates a person who neglects their loved ones? It's a matter of time before OW loses her novelty and starts expecting the same level of maintenance and care, then he'll shed her as well.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=PsySara]I am always stunned at how WAWs can shed their obligations like a snake shedding their skin. I sometimes wonder if you could travel back in time and show the WAS what kind of person they become if they would be horrified?


Good question, which got me pondering...
My guess (and partially to console myself) is that it will take the passage of more time before h realizes any loss. Like we'd have to know how it goes for them in 5 years b/c they justify what is going on now OR they don't see the downside AND OR they are in la la land. THEY have their immediate needs met and don't have to look around yet.

To h, as of yet, he got OW's family at Christmas and assumes "in time" the kids will come around. THey're resilient!

D19 told me sometime ago that after college she did not expect much or any contact with h. (I actually think she felt that way before we split). This is suspected by h and now he can save money and not lose more than he already lost, with d19?? The insane part is that h seems to think all of his behaviors are in a vacuum.

How he treats ME affects his r's with the kids, which he does not seem to realize. Ironic since his dad treated his mom badly in the divorce and h always resented that and never said a word to his dad. Think about that....

As for OW - she's the type of Christian who posts on FB about her faith, and dates a married man (this was last summer at the latest) and sees him lose his family but either is happy about it b/c then she gets a DOCTOR (I have to put that in caps as an inside joke from First Wives Club) as a step dad and h,

AND OR she believes I turned my kids against h, and h has paid SO MUCH for HIS (never "our" kids and never "we" paid, just HIM) we should all just be grateful. Plus I must be an overspending wife (God I wish, what with all my bling)

In OW's eyes, the cost of private college for our older kids is a huge amount. It's huge to me. So was h's salary.

Somewhere inside me I fear h will pay for her kids' college. That just occurred to me. Gross.

BACK to the question, we know one thing about MLC/WAS, which is fairly universal.

They do NOT look far down the road in a way that reflects poorly on them, or that has a bad outcome for them.

In my case, I know for a fact that h's bff warned him against going down this road. H's bff went thru this as a child when his own dad impregnated his OW and bff had to meet his "new stepmom/half brother" at the age of 10.

Bff's dad later divorced OW#1, and the halfbrother, and his dad married OW#3

when #3 left bff's dad, the dad fell apart and eventually took his own life. So that is the experience h's bff had in HIS childhood and he has warned h many times that this is a bad road to take, especially for the kids.

By the way, the best husband and father I know, is h's bff. These cycles can be broken.

Bff said "h won't listen, he doesn't get it"...

So we would have to have a telescope farther into the future, like 5 years and see that h is not around or involved in the graduation (I doubt d19 will invite him at all) and if he is invited to a wedding, all the awkwardness of it will radiate.

Will it be THEN that he wishes he'd done things differently? OR will he still say "too bad 25 didn't just come up to Alaska with me like she should have?"

Gosh, in truth I think it'd be easier for h to blame me even then...and never look in the mirror as to why our children and my family (which is huge) and his bff don't see him the same way.

H's bff is really disappointed that h lied to him about not cheating. Says "h swore up and down he did not", but it's obvious now. Why lie to your bff?? Bff would still love h.

That's the piece of this that made me first wonder about the narcissist trait in which what matters is not your behavior but how others see it...

Sara, maybe the answer is that they won't view themselves as bad or wrong or that the choices even cost them anything, (other than money)

unless they know they are viewed differently.



The sad fact is they usually realize what they have done when it's way too late to make repairs. Part of me wonders if this is a symptom of first world selfishness? I rarely read about this behavior in countries where people have to scrape just to eat.

Interesting.

True, most of this behavior is the behavior of the leisure class. And to an extent, so are our views. Our suffering is mostly ego, compared to 3rd world issues. I mean, if a WAH pays CS or alimony and the LBSer gets half the assets,

in the 3rd world, who would complain about that?

I heard a TED Talk by a Vietnamese refugee grown up in America and he discusses the lack of the subjunctive in his language ("would have/could have/should have") A lot of cultures and languages lack the subjunctive.

His point was that we ruminate a lot more than some cultures. His family would just deal with what is and plan for their future, not looking back.

And I have to say he has a point.


Honestly I hate OW for you. I have to ask myself what kind of low life dates a person who neglects their loved ones?

I understand that Sara. Believe me, one of my greatest achievement in this is not ever looking her up on FB and blocking h.

Like how could she encourage him to do this? H dated the letter to D19 early April but she just got it. Did HE pause or what?

I'm told OW posts about her faith in Jesus, God, etc on fb. OW Likes the world to know she's a good Christian. That tells me she cares about how she is viewed, which is really telling. Maybe not so much about what is real, but how she is seen....

h invited s30 to meet her in Mexico in March but s30 declined, OMG I hope that didn't hurt OW's feelings???!! If it did, it would have just annoyed h.

Anyhow h MUST have told OW I turned the kids against him. How else do you explain not seeing your kids since you moved?

Over the years, H said a few times that I "brainwashed the MC's" we saw b/c I'm good at words. Mind you, he was there with me.

We saw 4 different MC's over the years for the SAME issue, which was his obsession with Alaska. Each one gently or overtly said "h, you are not making the decisions of a man with a family
/you are acting like a single man/
you are not considering your w's feelings/
your children moving 2 more times at critical times in their lives",
"when are you going to be 'done becoming what you want to be in life'? etc

no one agreed with him. This caused seething resentment which, evidently, grew and festered over the years. OW lives in Alaska, & is from there. Problem solved !!

So she either blames me for distance between H and our kids, OR She likes the idea that he can supplant her own exh

or who knows? A friend in Alaska called her a "man whore" and I don't know what that means.

I just know h treated me badly towards the end, and I could not have moved there for him, again. And that was the choice I was presented with.

[25yearsmlc]

It's a matter of time before OW loses her novelty and starts expecting the same level of maintenance and care, then he'll shed her as well. [/quote]

Of course this^^ could happen. She will not compare well to me in every way even in h's eyes.

To be objective she doesn't compare well to me in anyone's eyes other than she jogs...
but h is not objective. I am the reason for all his ills and I am why he's not farther ahead in life and I'm the reason his kids are not close to him and blah blah blah.

But even in HIS eyes, there will come a day when she doesn't make him laugh (which I freaking did) or get his joke, or know something I know, that bothers him. OR she will disagree or snap at him. Even OW's are human.

And yet For some reason, my gut says SHE will end it, not h. H can come on strong and sweep you off your feet, and he tends to go all in, in every new hobby or venture (or relationship).

I'm told OW has not posted about them on FB nor has she said she's "in a R". That struck me since she is supposedly divorced. ("An abusive ex h"....okay...)

Maybe she's still married, maybe she fears her ex h but Since it's THIS OW naturally i'm skeptical of her having legit reasons. Who knows?

OR maybe she's not as into him or going public. I don't know.
I don't want to read into that, however.

I do think that going so public about it on h's end, means he's cornering himself into having to marry her or what?

To H, being alone will mean failure unless he's dating up a storm and rolling in the money (but since he "retired" that will have to remain hidden for some time, and he may want to hurry this divorce up so he can openly work and remarry)

I hate feeling like I'm in high school with this sense of "competition"...

Sara, I need to remind myself of the 3rd world and 1st world selfishness.

Much as this hurts and infuriates me, there are 3 remaining "future facts"


1) I will survive this and not starve, even if I get "screwed" by h in the divorce. I won't be homeless. And let's hope I'm freed financially of horrific worries so I can LIVE MY LIFE WELL.

2) When I begin to think of h's selfishness - I must remind myself not to get too carried away b/c as your comment has prodded me to see,

we really do have it pretty good in the grand scheme of things. Shelter and food and some form of medical care...puts us ahead of most of the planet.

3) my children are who I must protect. I just don't know exactly what that all means right now.

Protect from truth?

Seeing ME at peace, is probably what's best for them over all

b/c otherwise I won't be able to support them emotionally. I don't know what details they need or don't need. They obviously know d19 was cut off.

Ugh

[25yearsmlc]

ONLINE DATING


So I signed up for it last night. Kind of felt good to just dip my toe and start this part of my life, and though I'm not ready for a RELATIONSHIP no one is proposing one yet, so one thing at a time...


THANK GOD KML and OWN warned me about not giving out my phone number

(I will read the posts about getting a burner phone with my own number (???) on it soon.)


So last night a young guy NOT in the age range I selected (??) and not in my geographical area (???)

starts "chatting" with me and says he wants to meet me and yada yada but he's 1000 miles away.

And he's too young. Which I tell him, plus the distance.

But he comes on strong and I'm mildly put off AND mildly flattered both at once.

THEN He asks for my number b/c he wants to send me some pics.

And KML's warning about "dic pics" resonated so

I said "oh, I don't want dick pics"

and he said "Oh, okay" and went away.

God, I'm laughing and so grateful you guys warned me.

What a time. I will for sure need advice b/c a LOT of friends say online dating makes sense and so does Accuray!

But there are for sure some awkward weirdo obstacles to meeting a normal person.

[Sotto]

Wow - sounds like OLD got off to an eventful start!! That is great advice about caution and I'm sure it will become apparent if something is a little 'off' when someone gets in touch. Many genuine people OLD and I'm sure you will meet some.

Best of luck xx