..goin' down the only road I've ever known

[Ginger1]

Thanks JOb,

I used to joke this song was my anthem. It kind of is. I belt it out whenever it comes on the radio.

And Thanks everyone. haven't filled up a thread in a week for years. It's been helpful, so thank you. Spinning here instead of too much too him is better. I think I thought I was so pathetic with him was because I put all my feelings here. I realize I haven't told the him the half of it.

It was fun while it lasted, nice having a partner for a while. Got a great vacation out of it, some really good dates, nice talks and laughs and someone to cuddle with for a while and sleep next to.

Simply time to just go back to my regularly scheduled program.

[DonH]

To be sure, your comments to FF yesterday were not keeping with DBing. But I don't think you really were in a DB place, nor needed to DB, so that's okay. I actually use DB for many things in life - more often than not they get used in non R situations. So it does apply, but just the same, you are not trying to get him back (Gawd I hope not anyhow) so you don't need to DB him.

"Do you see how he was trying to tell you who he was and you kept rationalizing it away? When they tell you who they are, BELIEVE THEM!!!!"

I could not agree more with KML if I tried. People will tell us who they are if we just listen to them! I am beyond great at this - unless it's a female I'm interested in, in which case I stink at it! LOL. They are all telling me who they are, but in business and friends with no R feelings I both see and use it. In R, I explain it away or "give the benefit of the doubt." I have no doubt there were all sorts of signs and all sorts of things that you otherwise would have saw as red flags but you didn't want to see them yet. You wanted it to all work out. Still not the time to really go into all of this, so just go back to healing with your list of bad things about FF to help! Sometime down the road you can circle back to this area of a work in progress.

Ginger, I'm not at all just saying this to try to make you feel better, but as these things (like self-proclaiming he drinks too much) keep dribbling out, I really think you may have dodged a bullet here. I really do. I think had he not gone away on his own, you would have figure them out in time, but not until after months and months of pain and such. I even think that in a few months you'll be saying how you really dodged a bullet with this guy. Perhaps since he's sort of still in your circle of people, you'll see that play out with a future partner of his. Let's see if I don't end up being correct about this!

[Sotto]

Gosh, just looking back at your previous thread and the void at the very centre of my heart comment. XH said such a similar thing to me in the months after BD - it stands out to me as the most impassioned thing he said to me - that he had a void at the very centre of his soul...

These two things alone - the alcohol use and this statement - really suggest he wasn't in such a great place. And I agree they were red flags..

I guess the thing to reflect on is why the red flags weren't waving at you? If he hadn't ended things, you may have carried on in a R with a guy who had some substantial issues...?

Worth looking at anyway - and I do agree with Don and with KML - you may just have had a lucky break here - I know it may not feel like it just now..

Anyway - enjoy your daughter, your home, your work and friends..there is always much in life for us to be grateful for..

Xx

[Ginger1]

Well, let me tell you, after every R, I hear on here "you dodged a bullet" So, apparently I am either jumping in front of them or they are aimed right at me.

As far as "red flags" My exH had a bunch of red flags I ignored. I was aware right as I was in it. exNG, definite flags.

This one, I swear no red flags. We can say his "bad" traits were red flags, but I don't think they could have predicted this. I think everyone has some less than desirable qualities. I sure do. Are they always red flags? maybe something to think about twice and analyze against the good. I asked myself throughout this R "is he treating you with respect?" Answer was always yes. he was considerate of me and my feelings, always asked how I was, never made me wonder, never made me think he was looking for another woman. Considered me in his actions. Looked to the future and stayed in the present.

I was encouraged to work through the whole parenting thing and no invite for easter instead of looking at them as red flags. When he makes the self-proclaimed alcoholic thing, I looked to see if he really was. He is not. The black hole in his chest where his heart should be? Always jokingly. He is a very soulful guy, actually, very passionate. passionate enough to drop his girlfriend because he wants the dream. he wants to succeed. His heart melts for his nephew, his anger goes nuts when he thinks about his soon to be ex BIL. Because he cares.

I certainly believe he is lost right now and doesn't know how to get where he wants. He wasn't in a good place for a few weeks. he admitted that and I believe him. But he told me his good place had nothing to do with me. He still swears everything was fine until he came to that realization in some 24 hour period. I guess it was the one thing he could control right now.

I stay in IC to make sure I am not making tons of mistakes in R's and that I am not repeating patterns. I was seriously blindsided by this one. I knew something was wrong. But I had no freaking clue it was what he said. I really thought it was all his work stress and it was something we were going to work through together.

Anyways. It's an another day. I'm just trying to make it through each one. But I am depressed. The last time I slept all the time was my senior year of high school and freshman year of college. It was when my dad left, and my mom went nuts. I was avoiding my pain by sleeping. My brain just shutdown and I would sleep all the time. I was highly functioning, going to school, making it to class, but I slept every chance I got. Now as a mom, I don't as much of a chance. My brain keeps saying go to sleep, but I am trying to combat it with exercise. I'm forcing myself to be social when I don't want to be. There is a lot around this breakup that is causing this and it's hard to explain.

Gym tonight, Dance for D9, grocery shopping and calling a friend.

Tomorrow night I am taking D9 and her BFF to a carnival.

exH is going away for the week as is the wifey, although to separate locations. I have the dog. Who was mine at one point. It's also me and D9 for 10 days straight.

Last night after dinner i took her to ride her bike and played with her scooter. She's doing really well and she did turn to me and say " Mom, I really wish FF was here to see this. he would be so proud"

I don't think he realized what he was doing. but he didn't become attached to my D. But my D became attached to him. My fault.

[Ginger1]

I do appreciate all the perspectives. I seriously don't think I did anything wrong or ignored anything this time. This was the last thing I expected. And you all know how honest I am with myself. I didn't ignore red flags. I analyzed the crap out of everything to make sure I wasn't. I give people the benefit of the doubt because we all have our shortcomings and demons. I watched them closely, to see how they affected us. And they didn't until the very end.

[JujuB]

Ginger,

The depression will slowly fade and you will climb out of it. Sometimes in these situations I think we just need time. I think we need to just sit with the grief and sadness.

(I've been the same way recently, but I can feel it lifting. )

It is sad that this relationship did not work, because you really liked him and wanted it to. But he simply didn't. And maybe that's all there is to process. Maybe simplifying will make it easier?

Eventually you will find someone that you want a long term relationship with and that feels the same way. Until then, just know how incredibly beautiful, smart, spunky, caring, and insightful you are.

[whatisis]

Once more G, it's not about being "right" or "wrong", it's about being wise. No one likes to be "wrong" so when you view things in that context it makes looking at things honestly that much more difficult. It's about learning and growing from your experiences. What went right in this relationship and how did you make that happen? What might you have done differently? I would encourage you to look at how you throw your whole self into a relationship so readily (I know you see it as a virtue) because in my experience people who get everything handed to them on a platter don't value it much...they take it for granted. I think that's human nature. So moving slower might actually enhance the quality of your relationships. It's not about playing head games versus being real, it's about protecting yourself. Think about it.

[25yearsmlc]

okay I have to ask...

I see that what most of us have been through/are going through, is by far the hardest thing we have endured...(and survived!)

While I admit there is a part of me thinks "wow, a new r ending must $uck more"-

another, much bigger part of me says "Big deal. I've been deeply horribly HURT...

And this...this new 'r' ending, is like an annoying bump, comparatively..."


Am I missing something here? Is it worse??

God...

[DonH]

Am I missing something here? Is it worse??

God...

When Ginger said it gets harder and harder each time, what came to mind with me was PTSD. Not that breakups are likely a true PTSD type thing but the compartments of that include the repeated exposure and in that case, things most certainly do get harder and harder each time because we are sensitized to it and our brain builds it up and up and up. We then relate the current pain to the original PTSD trigger and therefore confuse the two. So, 25years, you are correct in that the actual break up after only 3 months is not that big of a deal and prior to the PTSD triggers it would not be, but our brain confuses and melds the two to where the recent breakup FEELS like the original. The more it happens, the harder it gets each time.

I'm sure this is partly the reason I am how and who I am today. I know darn well that a breakup after three months would not be anything like my BD coming up on 12 years ago now - yet my brain would relate the two and at least the risk is there for me to go into a depression like happened back then.

Does any of this make sense?

[Ginger1]

I think Don explained that very well. It is a big PTSD thing for me. Repeated exposure to rejection brings back the feelings I had from my rejection and cheating in the failed M. It gets harder, not easier. My R before this one I realized only hit me really hard when I found out he was dating another woman like a day later. I mostly ended that one, said what I needed, he couldn't give it to me and it was a dealbreaker. I spun out due to PTSD.

Another element for me is spending majority of my adult life alone. Spending so many years without a partner, doing it myself while working full time, raising a baby, dealing with remarriage to OW .... the list goes on. I got a healthy place, tired of going at it alone and had some real needs that needed to be filled.

I am not going to lie. A part of this one is like taking heroin away from addict. The feeling of having a partner, someone coming "home" for dinner, having conversations all night, cuddling, affection, companionship, fun, time spent with D.... was a feeling most take for granted. To me, it was like the greatest drug in the world. Now that drug is gone. It causes physical pain to go back to where I was. I miss what we had so much. Something I haven't had most of my adult life. And our time spent together was great.

So yes, it is multi-dimensional. I sure thought I was hurt the worst I would ever be and now I am like stone and nothing could possibly hurt as much...... not true. The PTSD portion is very very much there.

[Ginger1]

JuJU- thank you. I know you have been having similar symptoms of depression and I am glad they are lifting for you. I know it won't be around forever. Simplifying helps a little, because I just can't keep running the "why's" through my head. it's simply over. I'll get my spunk back soon I hope:)

Wii, I guess wrong and right are the wrong words to use. I think this was just ended sadly. In the future I have learned to take it much slower and protect my heart more. It seriously like I was taking some great drug. Everything felt so good after being deprived I wanted more. I couldn't put the breaks on it.

Next time, for sure!

[25yearsmlc]

Am I missing something here? Is it worse??

God...

When Ginger said it gets harder and harder each time, what came to mind with me was PTSD. Not that breakups are likely a true PTSD type thing but the compartments of that include the repeated exposure and in that case, things most certainly do get harder and harder each time because we are sensitized to it and our brain builds it up and up and up. We then relate the current pain to the original PTSD trigger and therefore confuse the two. So, 25years, you are correct in that the actual break up after only 3 months is not that big of a deal and prior to the PTSD triggers it would not be, but our brain confuses and melds the two to where the recent breakup FEELS like the original. The more it happens, the harder it gets each time.

I'm sure this is partly the reason I am how and who I am today. I know darn well that a breakup after three months would not be anything like my BD coming up on 12 years ago now - yet my brain would relate the two and at least the risk is there for me to go into a depression like happened back then.

Does any of this make sense?

well ^^^that $ucks...

what to DO to alleviate or treat this beforehand, if possible?

[DonH]

I would encourage you to look at how you throw your whole self into a relationship so readily (I know you see it as a virtue) because in my experience people who get everything handed to them on a platter don't value it much...they take it for granted. I think that's human nature. So moving slower might actually enhance the quality of your relationships. It's not about playing head games versus being real, it's about protecting yourself. Think about it.

I also wanted to react to this great comment as I totally agree. One thing I know I will TRY to remember if I even happen to land in an R again is not to take it for granted, how I would want to remember how rare it is to find the right person. On the other side, I have a couple women pursuing me right now. They are just not my type, plus one is married for crying out loud. But even the single one, I know I don't have to try at all and she will be there. It's not a turn-on by any means. I'm not saying I'd try an R with her if she were not as "easy" (not in a sexual way either) but there is certainly no chance as it is. It's like she doesn't even value herself enough, why would I? Guys and women as well, often want what they can't have and don't value anything they do. I still keep in touch with V from out of state and I would so totally value her. Part is because there is a chemistry and attraction there but the other is she has in no way just given herself to me. I'm willing to bet if she were like this other women, even with the attraction, I may not be interested - or as interested.

Is this game playing? Is this something wrong with me? Perhaps, but I more think. just like wii wrote, it's just human nature. It's in many ways the core of why DBing tends to work (when it does work). Going all in so fast doesn't only put your heart at risk, I really think it puts the R at risk. There really is a lot to be said about all of this. All are good reasons to alter course in the future.

[25yearsmlc]

Ginger

please don't assume I'm making light of your feelings. (I'm just afraid of having them.)

[Georgiabelle]

G,

I want to commend you on the title of this thread. I, too, sing along to this song and very frequently refer to my au natural hair as my David Coverdale hair.

You've received great feedback from many. I'll sing a little bit of a different song and dance Tawny Kitean style on da car. I kid. I'm not a fan of the term "dodged a bullet" even though I use it. I think I don't like the term because to me it implies that the whole thing with a mistake. Or that nothing good could come of it if it continued on. I think you finally met someone that you really clicked with, hung out with, and just enjoyed being with several days a week. And it wasn't long distance! You got a taste of what it would be like to be in a semi regular (whatever that is) relationship with a fairly regular guy. You haven't had that in a while so hails to the yes you enjoyed it. And that's a good thing!!!

I understand the rejection thing. I see it very common amongst women in their mid-30s and up. The most innocuous thing can feel like rejection to someone who has been rattled at their core when it comes to relationships. And everyone here has. However, I think for some the feeling of rejection starts to build and add up versus subside. And it's extremely difficult to switch that gear.

While I cannot personally relate to jumping all in (that's just not me), you clearly see the good in people which is a necessity to survive. I understand your experiences have been frustrating, but you still proceed wholly. That's rare and shows your ability to be able to love or care deeply for someone again. Is is a bad feeling now? Yes, you are sad. Is it bad that you cared? Absolutely not! It's great that you have that ability.

You told him how you feel. I think that's awesome. Granted, you may not have gotten the response or reaction you wanted but you stated your feelings. You didn't look desperate or pathetic. You looked like a person who was hurt and cared. Is that bad? Nope.

Hang in there:-)

[Ginger1]

Thank you thank you, Georgia,

You have summed my feelings up so well. It's exactly how I feel, right down to the "dodged a bullet" thing. But yeah, my first non-LD or tricky schedule relationship ever and I had someone regular in my life and it was great. And he put an effort in and seemed like he really cared. now it's gone.

The building rejection has broken me. I feel broken this time around. Hopeless. It's a culmination of many things. Any R or half-arsed R I have been in has ended with me being rejected and not enough. First guy, there was something "not perfect". Another guy was just a mistake. exNG was distance and unwillingness to give anything. Now this one, what I have to offer him is not enough. No one has ever not liked me or not cared for (with the exception of my exH, he didn't care about me) They have mostly said they have strong feelings for me (which I have hard time believing as most go onto someone new right away) but I somehow was never enough for their needs. When all the people you cared for in the past 9 years since your husband left you for another woman end up leaving you when things are about to get serious, it does damage and the damage gets worse every single time.

So 25, this is not common place. I have had serious bad luck with men. I just have. The whole R think I think is simply not meant for me.

I'll be honest. If it wasn't for the fact I have a child and responsibilities, I would be in my bed numbed on benzos. I feel that awful. This one broke me and I wasn't ready for it. But yes, I have a child, a job, school, and I have to go through the motions. But it's all I am doing. Hopefully that gets better. I just got another almost 100% in my class and I only have 3 left. I did my last 2 assignments crying my eyes out and I made it through. I do function. But I don't want to.

I thought about future relationships. I have decided no more relationships or attachment. No more giving myself to anyone. If anything, friend with benefits where I call the shots with no attachment and they know it.

I know my limits. I have reached them.

[Dawn70]

I sometimes read people's posts and am just in awe of the people on this site. Everyone expresses themselves so eloquently and that is so very cool. Anyway, you have gotten some REALLY great advice/tips/suggestions/feedback from everyone else and I don't think I can really add to it, but I agree with everyone else before me.

I think you are human, G, and you are a very loving, caring person who feels things deeply so it stands to reason that you are taking this hard, but you are self-aware enough to know that you can't just lie down and let it beat you. You have responsibilities and you are facing them.

My heart still breaks for you, as the pain is so real and so deep, but I know there are brighter, sunnier days free of pain ahead. And, now, that White Snake song will forever be seared in my mind as G's song...I heard it last night and had that thought. LOL

[whatisis]

"When all the people you cared for in the past 9 years since your husband left you for another woman end up leaving you when things are about to get serious, it does damage and the damage gets worse every single time. "

I know you're hurting right now and feeling defeated. It's never easy. But I see something that you might want to take a close look at in the future (not now). I'm a firm believer that things don't just keep happening to us! Are you seeking out these experiences/partners (not consciously, of course)? As one who works in the helping profession (and has messed up enough himself) I know that negative experiences don't just keep happening and we are not just helpless beings that fate acts upon! I look at my friends and sometimes want to scream "you're dating the same person over and over!"...and it never seems to end well for them. Look at the person who keeps ending up with an addictive or abusive partner...is it likely that it's a fluke that all their partners have the same issues? I think not. It's worth thinking about. I do think you made some positive strides this time but I know when I look back on my past experiences (as limited as they are) I now see that there were things I should have paid attention to (and DB friends warned me too...I remember KML telling me`once `when a woman tells you she can be mean, believe her!) and I dismissed them and ended up having the same experience. I try to do be more aware now and cut loose any contact who seems to be more of the same. For example, I made a wonderful contact recently with a lady who was into photography, sang on her church praise team, was funny, intelligent...but in chatting I found out that she left her nice government job a few months ago and was seeking a new direction. My brain screamed `she`s perfect, you can nurture and support her and she`ll need you!``I nicely moved on...and she understood! OK, enough babble lol. I believe that we repeat patterns and YOU are saying that there is a nine year pattern here. Think about it.
I hope you feel better soon, you're on a rollercoaster right now... but remember, you are loved!

[Ginger1]

I saw my IC yesterday and absolutely bawled my eyes out and told her how much pain I am in. She was not surprised, she knew with this one it was going to happen. Of coursed she assured me this pain is temporary.

We talked a lot about his decision open and honestly. She said if he was sitting in front of his therapist and he expressed his desire for kids in his time frame and not sure about being a stepfather, his therapist would tell him to go for what he truly desires else he will regret it. I know this. I never want to be the source of anyone's regrets. or someone or a situation that is settled for.

Then we spoke about his parents. We are pretty sure they had a voice in this. I know Don had mentioned it, my friend has mentioned it and I believe it true. They don't know me from a hole a in the wall. They do know when their son was 26 he moved in with a 40 something year old and her kid, surely giving up any grandkids he might offer them due to her age. They watched their son not build a life of his own and give up a dream of a family. I could imagine watching him do that yet again made them say something. Now, as a parent, while I want my child to be happy in whatever she choses, I would not want my child to walk this path unless they were sure they didn't want kids and the such. He and his mom had a very deep talk he told me about a week and a half before we broke up. he didn't give me the details he said they had deep conversations. I could imagine I was included. He went from wanting me to meet them to not mentioning it or avoiding the topic at one point. And not at a time anything was changing in our R. I think they didn't have the best things to say about me and my situation.

What this boils down to is it is very unfortunate but could be no other way. it is painful, and she believes for the both of us, but it is what has to be done. She thinks he really tried to be ok with this situation because when he broke up with me he said "I have very strong feelings for you, which is why this decision is so hard to make" I don't think he is sitting there happy as a clam. I think he might be hurting over this too.

It is just an awfully uncontrollable sad situation. It's so hard because there is literally nothing I can do about it. I can't change anything about this situation.

We also discussed how this hurts even more in different ways than bomb drop. She knows I was not treated well at all by my ex. That was loss of my vows and my family. This was a loss of someone who was good to me, who respected me, I wasn't trying to get him to love me without reciprocation. He was the first guy who truly cared about me, about us. It's a hard loss after the sh!t I had gotten from men.

So Wii, that kind of answers your question. This guy was way different than all the others. Us as a couple was different than all the others. What could I change going forward? Maybe not choosing someone with so many obstacles. Not that I "chose" him. We chose eachother. He chose me, actually. But I need to stop moving forward with someone where we have such serious obstacles. It was usually distance. neither of us realized this time how big of a deal it was for both of us.

Last night I brought D9 and her BFF to a carnival. It was the one he wanted to bring me and D9 to. I was afraid he would be there but he wasn't. It was just me and them and I had pretty much no one to talk to and I am off social media, so no phone entertainment. So I people watched. I watched couples with babies. And as much as my desire was always there for another child, I realize my daughter is going into middle school. I just don't think I could do this 3 years from now. A year from now maybe, not 3 years from now. I also finally caught myself truly smiling watching D9 and her BFF having the time of their life on a ride. My heart got very warm. It's still in there. Her BFF also convinced her to get on a ride that is actually FF favorite ride as a kid but I told him D9 would never get on it. he said he would get her on it. Well, her BFF did and she loved it. I wanted to share it with him, it was painful that I couldn't, but it is what it is.

So at the conclusion of another long winded-journaled post, I am still sad, but the rejection portion has lessened. It's not a rejection of me. I do believe he is hurting and this wasn't easy. I really do hope one day we could be friends. He always said most people couldn't handle him, but I could and I got him. And it's true. It was a great friendship. I forgive him for not being more careful realizing he doesn't want to be a stepfather. We all try to talk ourselves into things just like I did. I'm glad he was honest with me eventually and honest with himself.

[Ginger1]

......by the way, I sit all day at a repetitive job in front of a computer where I don't deal with people. I have so much time to spend in my own head. it is awful. When I went through my divorce, I had 13 hour shifts busting my butt taking care of other people who are dying and having much interaction and no time to think of myself. Then I went home to a baby that dependent on me. I miss it! (someone should probably smack me for saying that)

[whatisis]

I get what you're saying G. He was like the knight in shining armour who rode in and whisked you up in his arms...hard to resist that kind of attention! So there's another lesson...when a guy is too much too soon, watch out. It can change on a dime. Personally, if I'd gone out with a guy (if i was a woman, of course) and he showed up on my door, after a date or two, with flowers, teddy bears and wine asking me to be his Valentine...I'd crap myself! Again, too much too soon. Planning a vacation together after a week or so...again, too much too soon. I like what you said about watching for obstacles, that's very important. That's what I did with the lady I mentioned earlier...she seemed wonderful but a big life transition and a relationship do not go together. The relationship will always come second. So, there is always learning to be done from our experiences. Hang in there, we're all here for you!

[Ginger1]

he did ride in whish me away. I do not regret not resisting that kind of attention. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change it. I hadn't had a valentines day in forever and he knew that. It was a nice gesture to make it special for me. He sent me the most genuine text that day too. None of it scared me. He knew it was safe and it was. I'll keep that text, I'll keep the memory, and I kept the teddy bear hidden away. Of course we drank the wine. I had the time of my life on that vacation. How awesome was it to spend 26 hours in the car together, mostly holding hands, playing stupid road games and talking about life. Then having a week of pure fun and companionship without a single disagreement? I again wouldn't trade it for the world.

I've been living life for so long without experiencing such things, raising a child by myself, that When an opportunity knocks me in the face like that, I go for it. Sure, I am in pain now. But I wouldn't trade it in.

I still just wouldn't change anything except have an open and honest conversation about futures from the beginning. Most would say not to have such a scary conversation that early, but our circumstances required it before we go too deeply involved.

I was doing some reading this morning and this is the hardest kind of relationship to lose. Neither actually want each other gone from their lives, but there is no choice. It's tough.

[whatisis]

We shall agree to disagree lol. Aside from the pain, most relationships have some incredibly beautiful moments to remember...that's what keeps us reaching out to each other

[uRworthy]

Hello, my sweet friend. I am sorry I havent been around for you. As usual, I have drama and crap going on in my life. Oh well.

Anyway, I skimmed through your threads and I just wanted to say a few things to you.

First of all, you are who you are, G. And the very best parts of you are your heart and your loyalty. Those are amazing traits to have, but, when you do, you are going to get hurt at some point. Maybe several times.

The thing of it is, is that I would rather be true to who I was, I would rather love with all I have...than try to be someone I'm not.

Do I think you should have called him? Probably not. But I am not you. You did what you thought was right and best for you. You led with your heart and it's ok. It is.

But as I said, when we do, we have to be prepared for the possibility of getting hurt because we cant control the other person's heart or mind or actions.

Now whether you want to continue to do it, is up to you. As long as you know going in that the outcome may not be what you hoped.

I kind of think you needed to hear what he said because you didnt get to hear it the first time because it was done over text (Dont get me freakin started over that one).

G,he felt as he did. Right or wrong - backwards thinking or whatever. Did he care for you? You know in your heart he did. But I think he needs to grow up some. I think he needs to realize that the dream he has...is just that. No one's life turns out exactly as we plan. Thats for sure.

You will come to see that he entered your life for a reason. Part of that reason is that you needed to see that you could love again. You needed to see that it is possible...all of it.

I know you and I know you will be fine. MY concern, though, is that you think this is something that is lacking in you. I hope you know it isnt. You love well and true, G. There isnt anything lacking in that.

My heart hurts that yours was broken. I wish I could make the pain go away.

I know, without a single doubt, that one day you will find someone worthy of you and that beautiful daughter of yours and man, would he have to be special.

Until then, remember how loved you are by so many.

[Ginger1]

HI friend. Thank so much for stopping by. And checking on me via text. It means the world to me.

It's true, I only know how to love with all I have, but I know that means the pain will hurt more when I lose who I love. It was scary for me to tell him I loved him. Especially when I knew he couldn't say it back.

Well, I reached out, but I didn't call. We texted, I basically made a butt of myself and he validated. He validates like a DB'er. Gives nothing away but keeps himself in a "safe" spot where everything comes across so neutral. It actually is really irritating when you know what they are doing. So, we never really got to have a conversation, I still have not heard his voice since he said "bye babe, I might still be in your bed when you get back" the day before he broke up with me. I struggle feeling like our relationship wasn't even worth a face to face break-up. Maybe one day when we are both more detached we can have that meeting.

As for now? No contact since Monday and I plan on initiating nothing. I deleted his texts, his phone number, all his missed phone calls form my contacts that have his number, I unfriended him on FB..... I want zero temptation. I do hope one day perhaps we can meet as friends, but it certainly won't be me initiating it.

Yes thoughts creep in that something was lacking in me. But I keep reminding myself that there is nothing I could be rather than 10 years younger and no kids...... and both are impossible. I wouldn't mind the 10 years younger part, lol. But my daughter is my world. He told me he loved what we had, he loved who I am, and who I was to him.

He has some growing up to do big time. And I do hope he realizes his dream of the wife, house, and minivan full of kids. It hurts that I couldn't do that for him. I wish he would have realized this before he asked me out. He knew my sitch....... but we all try to talk ourselves into certain things for the wrong reasons. I have been guilty of it more than I care to admit.

It will take a very special man to love us both. I hope he is out there and I hope he finds us.

I agree, and my T said the same thing. I needed to know I could open up my heart and love again. He is the one I let the farthest in my life ever. To be a real part of my life. I also I hope I set some standard in his life when looking for his wife and mother to be of his kids. How he should be treated by a woman and how to be loved properly. I hope he doesn't settle for any less.

My pain is great. Much different than with anyone else, even my exH. It's the first time I have ever wanted to put a "Band-Aid" on it in the form of a distraction, if you know what I mean. I have never done it nor have I had the desire. But I used to not understand how someone could break up with someone and be right onto the next in no time. I get it now, you want to take away the pain of the one before you. I won't do it, because I don't think I am capable, but it is tempting.

I love you UR. and I am here for you just as you have been here for me. You know where to find me any time and I will always listen or help in any way I can.

[uRworthy]

I am sorry, G. I misread the post. I thought you had a phone conversation. I wish you had, to be honest.

I still cannot, after all this time, understand people. I just cant. Maybe it is because of how I live my life. I try to do it with honesty and integrity.

I am sorry but he should not have started anything with you. He was in a relationship like this before and so he knew, on some level, that he wanted someone who he can start a family with. The thing of it is, because of his immaturity, is that he didnt realize a family is born of the heart and he could have had an amazing one with you.

You know, G, I often wonder why those of us who love as we do and who have endured what we have, hurt the deepest. THe truth is, I know why...it is exactly because of all of that.

YOu let him in, I know what that means. It was a giant leap of faith with the cliff on the horizon, yet you took it.

I know you allowed yourself to imagine the possibilities. Something you have learned not to do. I am not going to tell you that you shouldnt have, because that isnt true. The possibilities are what make a life.

So, honor the memories and keep them safe. THere is something amazing to be said about loving the way you do. The proof of that is in your daughter and the people who love you back.

He lost out big time. He doesnt really know it yet, but, he will. That isnt your problem now. It is his.

He was a coward, G. In a lot of ways. He didnt do the right thing from the beginning. I suppose we could say that he led with his heart, too, but, I am not giving him a pass. He doesnt deserve it.

As always, there are two ways that I feel. My love for you feels anger at him and sadness for you. But I also feel, really strongly, that things are supposed to happen as they do. I know people feel those are just words, but, I have found it to be true many times.

I always say that I need a brick building to fall on me before I understand something.

I truly believe that you needed to know you could love again, to get you ready for the one you are supposed to be with. Because now you know...you know..... you are capable of letting someone in. You know that you could love deeply. With all we have gone through, we need to know that.

Leave him be to figure out his stuff. And boy, he has some stuff.

Thank you for saying you are always here for me. And I know it, my friend. I dont know why my life has had so much crap. I just know that I am not yet ready to give up, so, I keep going.

Love you, G. Let's plan that lunch soon.

[Ginger1]

UR, I am angry too. There is compassion, love, and anger towards him and the situation. And even the universe.

he really didn't do the right thing from the beginning. While there is a lot I do understand, there is a lot I don't. And sitting here with no "closure" simply a text break up is killing me.

I don't know why, but I do think one day he will regret this. Part of me wishes I knew how he was feeling about all of this right now. The other part knows when this regret comes, it will be too late.

I am still doing awful unfortunately. I am disconnected and detached from everything. it was just me and D9 all weekend and I tried so hard to be present. But it was surreal, like I was just watching everything happen. I went ot the gym twice, we went out to dinner twice, I took her to the park to ride her bike and play...... I grilled us some dinner yesterday. But I am purely going through the motions. There is something very missing. We were driving home from dinner the other night and FF drives a popular pick up truck and she saw one in his color at a light next to us and she told me she misses him.

You are right, you do have to see the possibilities. The possibilities are what keeps us going in life. I thought this one was the reason why I endured every other crappy R in my life. I thought this was the door.

I wake up every morning with anxiety. And I don't even have anxiety, lol. And I can't wait for the day to be over.

he has no clue what he left in his wake. Not all his responsibility, but some of it is.

One foot in front of the other for now.

[Ginger1]

Well, the ex gave me the info on joining that co-ed volley ball league. I was too chicken to do it........ but I decided I can't go on like this any longer and I signed up. I'll be the mom taking her kid to the bar Monday nights to play volleyball! Ex said on later game nights he will help me out and take her.... then maybe I can hang out for the happy hour after. it's a cool place. There is a really nice bar outside, they serve good food and there is 2 sand volleyball courts outside and regular bar leages play sometimes, and this league plays Monday night. I did have lots of fun the one time I did it last year. D9 was fine hanging out watching...... So, I'm all paid and signed up and I begin June 19th.

've managed to overcome limits to the single motherhood with no help in my social life. I have basically brought her to everything I could bring her along to. I use my best discretion o make sure it doesn't interfere with school work or isn't too late at night. I miss the gym where I met FF. It all went down the tubes (not because of him) but when they fired his sister. It was keeping me sane when I felt so alone. I need something like that in my life again, because between work where I sit here all day and exchange a few adult words then home where it's just me and D9 now..... I'm losing it a little. D9 is also getting to the stage where she wants to be in her room. Kid ditched me Friday night to watch her shows in her room and I wanted to watch a movie with her

The isolation is not making things any better. I have some fun things planned for the next 2 months or so, with and without D9.

I have to keep convincing myself that I got this far and now is not the time to lay down and die.

[Ginger1]

Just journaling.

I was talking to a friend last night and I asked how exNG was doing. He is doing well, his woman wants a ring, lol. I realized I really reached a point where I don't wish ill on him and I wish him the best. he's happy and content in his situation and that is good for him.

But a few things got me thinking about how I have managed to set up the guy I married and the guys I have dated for their long term relationships. The ones that come after me, or hell, during me, last long term. They are the serious ones. They thank me for being there, for being who I am, for "teaching" them about themselves..... then convieniently drop me off and give their new found selves to the next ones. It really in interesting. I could bet you FF will marry the one that comes after me. He's already thanked me for teaching me about himself and about life and for all the things I gave him. Now the next woman will reap the benefits.

I ask myself "how is it I show them the way, but I never Am the way?" Is there something about me that can't be loved for a long period of time? That someone can't see themselves growing old with?

I'm just hoping because the universe is holding out for the one who will realize it and never want to let it go.

But for now, I am the "prepper". Opening guys up to other woman, helping them understand themselves and what they want, which unfortunately, never turns out to be me!

[Zues126]

But a few things got me thinking about how I have managed to set up the guy I married and the guys I have dated for their long term relationships. The ones that come after me, or hell, during me, last long term. They are the serious ones. They thank me for being there, for being who I am, for "teaching" them about themselves..... then convieniently drop me off and give their new found selves to the next ones. It really in interesting. I could bet you FF will marry the one that comes after me. He's already thanked me for teaching me about himself and about life and for all the things I gave him. Now the next woman will reap the benefits.

This is making the assumption that them putting a ring on some woman's finger will naturally lead to a fulfilled lifelong partnership.

I'm glad you are wishing the best for your ExNG. You have always done a good job letting go of anger and living your own life. That is one of your best qualities, and it really reflects who you are because unlike a personality trait it is a choice.

I hope you can do the same with FF. I see the situation from another angle. There has been some lashing out, you dodged a bullet, he is a coward, he mislead you, he is immature, etc, etc. I don't get it. A guy dated someone for a few months but wasn't ready to make a life commitment. I don't see how this makes him a horrible person or why we have to make him a bad guy to comfort your feelings.

Yeah, it stinks he broke up by text. But the text wasn't what felt bad, it was the breaking up part. Like it or not, this is a different world than 1998 and he's hardly unique here. And maybe he spared you months of limbo and pain because he knew he'd be too tempted to stay with you in the short term while he couldn't in the long term. Maybe it was a GIFT. And I don't know if you dodged a bullet. Sometimes things in life happen that we don't like. That is life. If he had been hit by a bus and killed would we say, "it's for the best, you dodged a bullet"? Of course not. That would be tragic. Well, he's the same person as if he was hit by a bus. A good guy that you liked and it's too bad it didn't work out.

Good for you for signing up. Just keep breathing and have faith that one day you will wake up and it won't be how it is today. But hope you have some moments that surprise you and aren't all bad today too. Take care.

[Ginger1]

Hey Zues!

I am looking at FF from every different angle. I understand certain things, I don't fault him for most, but I do fault him for some, and that makes me angry. but all my feelings aren't anger. While I am the parent and it is my responsibility to decide who I let into my child's life, he knew my hesitation and why I had it. If he was so sure of these deal breakers from the beginning and he expressed them to me, the meeting would have never ever happened. The dating would have ended as fast as it began. I am mad that he thought so little of our R which he made such a big deal out of and called serious, thought so little of me and my D to call it off on a decision made overnight via text. Something he is SO against. It was cowardly and disrespectful in my opinion. It certainly showed his age.

In the next breath if this is what he wants, its what he wants. I think he did gift me the chance to be with the one who knows what he wants and isn't afraid of it. I do hope he finds what he is looking for. I hope he makes the life he is so desperate for. I also hope he takes more caution if he decides to go down the single mom route yet again. I know I will take more caution myself.

I think I am good at forgiving and letting go because and moving on with my life because I don't want anyone here who doesn't want to be here. I spent 9 years of my life with my exH like that. he didn't want to be here, yet he didn't want to be alone. I hung on for dear life. Many times I should have just let him go. The only reason why I regret not doing that was because I wouldn't have gotten my daughter.

Getting out of bed is hard most days. Not just because of what FF did. I mean, I legit miss him. He gave a presence in my life and my home that was missing for sometime. I think I just really miss that. It's not anger holding me down. It's the loss of someone who I wanted there for the right reasons. But I certainly never wanted him to stay for the wrong reasons.

Thank you Zues. I hope one day I wake up and I just feel good again. I am sure it will come. I think my birthday is making it harder. I'm your age, but when your boyfriend breaks up with you because you are too old..... the fact that 9 years sped by and I never had another child or got remarried as everyone loved to assure me I would..... well, it's a little bit of a kick in the gut. I am hoping after my birthday, things will brighten up.

[Zues126]

To clarify, the reason I didn't respond to how he entered the relationship despite the presence of 'deal breakers' is that I am not assigning much meaning to him saying that. The first rule of DB is "believe none of what they say and half of what they do". To me this was just fill in the blank stuff. All we really know is that he isn't continuing the relationship.

Happy birthday G. The good news about getting older is that at some point our life gets so screwed up it doesn't even resemble what we originally envisioned. And that can be a blessing as it helps bring about the death of our expectations and allows us to just enjoy what the heck is actually happening here.

[Georgiabelle]

I think Z makes some good points, G. Peeps say things that don't necessarily translate into truth, facts, reality or whatever we want to call it. I also love your point that our lives become something that didn't remotely resemble what we thought they would so, eh. Guess we wing it. :-)

G, your comments about "what people said" really resonate with me right now. Isn't that crazy that when people say things, we sometimes assume they know something we don't? Like "of course you will remarry and have another child." And I certainly hope you get exactly what you want. You are a fantastic lady! However, I always roll my eyes when I get the rah rah speech from folks. I know they mean well and have good intentions. Just words to me. It's kind of like when folks have said, "x is attracted to you. " I thought "really?" Because I don't feel that and I do believe our intuition (when tuned) is right. And folks backtrack when they are wrong. And trust me. This isn't about right or wrong and you know that. It's about recognizing we don't *always* get exactly what we want. Sigh. We all know that, right ? And everything has to play itself out and we are part of the players in the scenes.

I hope this next birthday brings the best year ever. Hang in there. I know you are having a tough time of it. You are a great friend and support to many here!

[Ginger1]

truth most certainly does not always translate into facts.

Georgia- When people say those things they are always good intentioned. but when we have lived the fact that the way things should go aren't the way they go, we know better than to count on it. Which is maybe why I can't sit here and say "one day I
'll meet the one". I very well may not! I may just as well be single for the rest of my life. I have no clue.

Right now I am taking everything for face value. I have this thing about human connections. They are sacred to me. I like to honor them. I was in the process of tucking FF away into a nice little box treasuring our time together and the way he felt about me..... but then my gut kicked in. Fb is evil. When he liked me and wanted to ask me out, he liked all my posts. I see him doing somewhat that to a mutual friend now on FB. A hater of our R because she was jealous who was rude to us the last time we saw her. Whom he had not so nice things to say about. I think he going for the kill. Could be paranoia. could be the truth. I lose my crap for real when this repeatedly happens, so I am prepping myself for the worst. I unfolowed her on Fb so I don't have to see his likes. But I will surely find out due to the mutual friends.

I'm trying to see it as desperation on finding the baby momma. But if it does happen, I will see it as a true disrespect to me and what we had. I will lose it momentarily, but I will try to keep it together.

I truly hope that I'm just being crazy and paranoid. But every time I hope that, it turns out I am not.

I also found out that I have to find somewhere to volunteer related to my course study for 10 hours over the course of 3 particular weeks and I need to start in a week. This is just about impossible for me. To find a place that fast and find the time and someone to watch D9.

Today was a one step forward 2 steps back kind of day.

[DonH]

Part of me wonders if I should not just leave this alone. In many ways, what difference does it all make? You (we all) may never know what really went on in his head. Besides it won't change the outcome. I do hoe it might help you for the future though.

Is this the "desperate" girl from the gym you are speaking of? I remember FF said he was turned off by her. If it's her I understand your angst.

Thing is, I really have to wonder if FF was as all in as you seem to want to paint him to have been. He may have been. You were there and we were not. I just know that guys in general - especially younger ones - just are not wired that way. All of his actions seem to be of a guy who went out with someone for three months, really enjoyed it but now has moved on. That mode fits very well with his actions - including deciding overnight, not having you meet his parents, not grieving much over the breakup. It just all fits. You wanted more. I have to wonder if you saw what you wanted to in some ways. It does not make him bad unless he all out lied to you. I just don't think he did. I think you were just both in different places.

For me it fits well with some women I dated earlier in life. Several I can think of were great ladies. I look back at our time together very fondly to this day. They just were not for me long term. Would they think otherwise? Were they surprised when I ended it? A few were in talking to them years later.

G, if he does go on to date again sometime soon it will not diminish you or who you are. It won't mean he did not really like you. It will just more mean it was not to be. You really need to stop annalizing a day romanticize get it all. It's only going to make you feel worse for longer. He's not worth that.

[uRworthy]

Hi G. Just my two cents...now I know I come from a place of knowing you personally and loving you. However..had he not done this before, I could maybe understand his feelings. But..he did. He was with someone with a kid who was older. And I am sorry, but, he needed to think it through before he got into that situation again. Especially knowing that how you feel about your daughter and bringing someone into her life.

And I dont care what everyone else does..it doesnt make it right..you do not break up with someone through text. You just dont. And to me, it is cowardly.

It doesnt make him a bad person. You wouldnt have been with someone who was.

If we dont have some expectations of how we should treat each other, than what's the point?

G, the only way to do this is through it. No short cuts, I'm afraid.
And you will do it. In your wonderful G way.

[DonH]

you do not break up with someone through text. You just dont. And to me, it is.

I could not agree more!

As to why did he do it again, who knows? His age? He hoped he might feel different? He was not thinking? But it could also be asked, why was he allowed to do it a second time? Hopefully no one will be #3

[uRworthy]

Hello DonH. I dont think we have ever "met". . You bring up some good points. I know G so that comes into it for me and maybe that isnt fair.

You are right...who knows why he did it? I do not know if he told G that he broke up with the other woman because he wanted to start a family or that she was too old. I guess I always hope that people try to do the right thing with honor and integrity. I know that I can sometimes be disappointed in that way.

At the end of the day, we all have to own our actions and hopefully learn from them.

Here's the thing about Ginger. She is ferocious at looking within. She attacks it. Sometimes a little too much, I think. Although I am guilty of it myself at times. She is terribly hard on herself. To know her is to understand the depth of how she loves. If you are a part of her life...you are truly a part of it. She is loyal to a fault.

G, it is not just words when I tell you that I believe, deep in my soul, that everything happens as it should. And most of the time, we dont realize it til much later. I know that doesnt help the pain now, though.

Remember that you will not always feel as you do right now. You have known the very depths of heartache and came out the other side. You will again.

Be gentle with yourself. Rest, eat, exercise, cry...be around people and be alone. And I think it is an incredible gift what you have given these men. You are, after all, deep in your soul...a nures. It is part of what makes you...you.

[Ginger1]

Wow, these posts. Thank you for the insight and helping me through my feelings.

Don- I can guarantee you he was all in this and not me just hoping he was. Like I said, I was kind of weirded out at first by it. Never happened before. Always planning things in the future, calling our relationship "serious" Spending as much time with me as we could. Calling whenever he got a chance during the day, always calling to say good night. Good morning texts, calls on the way to work. letting me know every detail of his day. (without me eliciting this info) talking about future stuff. Vacation. Wedding date invites. Wanting me to spend the day with him and his nephew. making sure I got home safe all the time. Telling me "I am his" he could be jealous and I think he was a little thrown off I don't get jealous.

A big thing, and you may understand as a FF is that they are the biggest ballbusters ever. It's like hazing and he has his one full year on the job Saturday. In that first year they try to break you down (this is career, paid FF in the ghetto). He told me on the first date how he lets them know absolutely nothing about his personal life no matter how much they try to break him down. he is a stone wall. Well, he let them know all about me. he spoke of me often as his girlfriend. Even showed them pictures of me on FB. That was a HUGE deal for him.

So yeah, this guy was into me, into us as a couple. Then one day he was not. One day he decided he wants different things for his future, cut me off via text and after being in my life almost every hour of the day, may it be via text, he exited out completely. So, hence my trying to make sense of this crap.

I am indeed hurt he went from being a big part of my life to know part of my life like it was nothing. Is he just going about his business not thinking of me? I have no clue? I questioned if there was an other woman. No. Like I said, I knew everything about every hour of the day.

What do I know? He was struggling big time for a month. He expressed so much discontent for things not going the way he wants. For his business to not be the way he wants and how he doesn't want to be a business owner anymore. He wants to learn a new trade and all this stuff. he is so stressed. Other people get what they want without working for it. lot so jealousy of others. lots of frustration he wasn't where he wanted to be. Admitted lots anger and frustration over this.

I think one day he saw me as a barrier to the future he really wants. And I was something he had control over. Our future was yet another frustrating situation but I was one he could easily be rid of. So, he eliminated a stressor. But all along I thought I was a positive in his life, not a negative.

Yes, the other woman was one of the two who were very hot on his a$$. Not the muffin one who admitted her jealousy, but another instructor at the gym who began to ignore me, make a big deal over my child, and point him out during class all the time and challenge me to do hard stuff in class (which I always took and always kicked its butt, I am in good shape). HE couldn't stand her. The final straw was our last class when we came together and she wouldn't even look or talk to us. If this is the one he is after, yeah, I am pissed.

it kills me. He knew these two women wanted him. he had no clue I was interested in him. I wasn't even really at first. I thought he was cute, but too young, so I didn't give it a second thought. He had some fertile younger unattached single women wanting him, yet he went for me.

I am long winded because this is all stuff that goes through my mind. But I am realizing I just can't make sense of it. it is simply over now. I am hurt and confused how someone shuts off feelings like that and disappears. But trying to understand it will only have me spinning in circles.

[Ginger1]

UR- your post seriously made me cry. But not in a bad way. I can't tell you how comforting it is when someone "gets" you.

He was hesitant to tell me about his exGF because he was afraid I was going to think older moms was his "thing". He did share early on though. he cared about the kid. His GF however was very controlling and jealous and he couldn't take it anymore. He did admit, he liked the whole "family" thing. I remember that spurring into a convo about how the family and future thing is so enticing, I have been enticed by it before, but I realize you really have to love the person you are with as an individual to make that whole family thing work. He did tell me "plus, she was too old (42) to have more kids and I wanted kids"

he needs to stop repeating this pattern. I could see him date a young single mother with a young kid who can have more. But really, he needs to be careful.

When my ex left me, I was so terrified to look within. I was so afraid of what I might find there. But I realized the worst happened, my husband left me for another woman, so its time to dig deep, there could be no horrible consequence. I guess I just kept digging. There are things in life that are must-haves for me too. I figure if I keep doing that inner work, I'll get closer. I take it a little too far. I began writing about how I might be hard to love and why..... then I realized I'm doing it again.

What it comes down to: I am a lovable long-term person for the right one. I loved my ex even though he treated me awfully. I cared for on a different level for the first guy I sort of dated but we became a very important part of each others lives in a different way. I made my man mistakes...... I Loved exNG even though he couldn't give anything to me. I loved FF for what he did give me, what we gave each other and for exactly who he was. I couldn't be more sad he gave it up in the blink of an eye and just exited me and D9's life without looking back. I'm going to believe his reasons for now, and the believe he did care and had strong feelings for me and that he has to deal with his demons because he's got them.

I am also going to believe everything truly happens for a reason. I am going to keep on believing bigger better doors are going to open for me and I am getting closer to my goal, even when it feels farther away

[Ginger1]

And thank you all for the future birthday wishes. it's next Saturday, Last year I was severely depressed on my Bday and cried a lot. No one was really around.

This year I have a good friend coming to celebrate. There will be no crying, just celebration. It's hard each year to get one year older and realize you don't have that special someone beside you, you never had that other child and now you are too old. But this hope lingers that next year will be different. When it's not, it hurts. But I am going to focus on all that I have, not all that I lack.

[adinva]

But I am going to focus on all that I have, not all that I lack.

This!

[whatisis]

I think I mentioned earlier that I once got dumped by someone out of the blue...she did all the right things (no text break up, was willing to meet again to let me say my peace) but it caught me way off guard. A few months later she met some guy on a cruise and when they returned he moved in with her! Probably one of the luckiest breaks I ever caught was her dumping my ass (she'd wanted me to move in with her after two months, if I recall...and I said NO!) It certainly didn't feel like a break at the time. But things usually work out for the best...someone wonderful could be just down the road for you...and if not, you can always get a turtle

[DDJ]

Hey Ginger, my XWW has now dumped OM3 after 7 months and is single again. I'm removed all boundaries and she has let herself back in my life.

She makes as though nothing has happened and wishes for her M again. That urge to have someone is not something that only we LBSs have. Co-dependency goes both ways, and we must be thankful that we have had an opportunity to remove it from our psyche now. My XWW will repeat this vicious cycle, perhaps till she dies.

I saw this movie and this one partner said to the other "I am toxic for you, as I love you less than what you love me". That's the key.

We all love on different levels - lust becomes love, love becomes in-love, in-love becomes love, love becomes hate. We all hope to stop somewhere in the middle. We have no control over the other person, this we all agree on. But if you can love with all of your heart, without restraint, without fear, then even if the other one walks away, you have lost nothing. You loved with all of you, and that's more than most people get to experience once in their life.

[DonH]

Don- I can guarantee you he was all in this and not me just hoping he was. Like I said, I was kind of weirded out at first by it. Never happened before. Always planning things in the future, calling our relationship "serious" Spending as much time with me as we could. Calling whenever he got a chance during the day, always calling to say good night. Good morning texts, calls on the way to work. letting me know every detail of his day. (without me eliciting this info) talking about future stuff. Vacation. Wedding date invites. Wanting me to spend the day with him and his nephew. making sure I got home safe all the time. Telling me "I am his" he could be jealous and I think he was a little thrown off I don't get jealous.

Well, I'm not sure you could have made your point more clear than this. Without a doubt, he was pursuing you. At most you increased it a bit more but let's just take that off the table - just based on what he did, what else would you think? It's pretty obvious.

Which, then brings me back to him - FF himself. Love avoidants will do this. They will come on hard like this and then back off. Thing is, I don't think he's love avoidant. It's something about him. His ex 42-year-old GF. That hits me hard - more for her. What 42 year old woman seriously dates a 25 yr/o? I mean really? What would they have in common? That just makes no sense to me at all.

I keep coming back to this, ANYONE who comes on that hard and that fast... again, this may just speak to me more than anything, but wow, that's a red flag. I guess it may happen once in a blue moon. I know of people who meet someone and later say, "I knew the night I met him I'd marry him." Yet, she dates him for two years to be sure. How can you really know someone within weeks or a month. How can you really be "in love" that fast. In lust yes, but truly in love? I know I just cannot. Things that burn that hot that fast most always burn out that fast.

I guess if you change anything, it's that. And that's what many here have said - all of this takes time. I am getting how caught up you were with this guy. I get it. But it takes two. There are other women who would have said, "whoa buddy, all of these gifts on Valentines Day is a bit much." It was the dynamic between the two of you. The piece that does not surprise me is that he was out as fast as he was in. I think you see that now. He went from zero to 60 in a short time - therefore he went from 60 to 0 in a short time.

If nothing else, it's becoming more and more clear to me, this falls to FF and not to you. You could have done things differently but I don't think he was playing games, I don't think you misread, for whatever reason, he just is rather impulsive and doesn't think things completely through. That's on him.

As for the dynamics of firefighters, yeah, this is a whole other area. It's like so juvenile with these guys. It's a different culture. I did not fit that mold at all - not even close. Then again, I was much more in the volunteer culture than the union full-time, but yeah, talk about high school or college kids that never grew up - that's the typical firefighter. It just is.

I'll close with this. There is something else coming yet. I feel it. Will you hear of/learn of it or not? Who knows. He's just not done being impulsive or doing things the way he does them. He's likely not done surprising you. When he does, I honestly just hope you don't hear about it as it will pss you off and depress you even more. I think there is so much more under his layers that you never got to peel back. Actually, I'm betting you won't argue with that point now. It's not what people say near as much as what they do. We have to watch what they do - not what they say. He said he was all in, loved it all, wanted it all, had plans for the future. And he may well have - at that moment. The next day, it all changed in his head. That's immaturity among other things.

Keep hanging in there my friend. I keep telling everyone "I just want to meet and date a normal woman!" Something tells me you are saying the same about a normal man!

[JujuB]

Ginger - You are getting great advise!

Don - I think you should start a forum giving woman honest insight into the minds of men! When I start dating again, I am coming to you.

[Ginger1]

. We have no control over the other person, this we all agree on. But if you can love with all of your heart, without restraint, without fear, then even if the other one walks away, you have lost nothing. You loved with all of you, and that's more than most people get to experience once in their life.

Thanks DDJ. I was able to love in all those ways, but fear was attached. A fear I had actually expressed to him a few days before we broke up. I didn't say love, but I did mention fearing feeling the way I do for fear it is not being returned. I don't stop feeling the way I do, but I am fearful of it. But I did love with all of me. Without it being returned. It's a very hard thing to do. There was no condition attached either.

[Ginger1]

Don, interesting views.

He is not a love avoidant. every other guy I dated was. yet, they loved the person who came during me or after me. He is not scared to love, but he wants to love the one who can give him all he desires.

I am thinking maybe I am just an abnormal or just as screwed up perhaps. I ATE UP that Valentines thing. It didn't scare me, it made me feel like I was on top of the world. When you are deprived of something so long and then it's right there in front of you, It's hard to run from instead of embrace it. It's like if I hadn't had ice cream in years and someone gave me this big beautiful huge sundae. I wouldn't run from it, I would gobble it up!

I really loved what we had until he became weird. And I did watch what he did. He showed me he cared for me until the end when he did what he did. I always watched his actions. I agree he is impulsive. He is searching for something and will just do what he's got to do to get him to his goal. All the more power to him, I guess.

I know he is going to date and probably soon. Which will stink, but I expect that. But if it's that girl, I will surely go even more nuts. So I pray I do not find out. Just like the constant rejection weakening me, this would be the second guy who moved onto someone I knew of and had feelings for prior to me. The others said " I don't want a relationship" and ended in a relationship with someone a week later. That stuff breaks you down too. Like the break up wasn't enough.

So, where does that all leave me? perhaps I chose poorly yet again. Perhaps it was another false relationship built upon dysfunctional tendencies. Maybe I am messed up as the rest of them.

Last night my dad and stepmom came for D9's 4th grade concert. We had dinner and then went to the school. My dad kept asking what is wrong. I am not myself, it is blantantly obvious. I am distracted and irritable and I can barely put a smile on my face. I pretended the best I could. I can't tell my dad how utterly depressed I am because I know how badly that will hurt him. My dad and stepmom did me a favor and were very kind to exH and OWW (they hate his guts) I asked because D9 watches and my dad noticed her watching the interactons. My dad made me promise that before he dies he could get one punch in. I said absolutely. ExFIL and GF of 10 years came. He popped the question last night to her. he was never legally divorced from exMIL, but exH said they recently did it uncontested. That poor woman lost out on so much by this not happening many many years ago. D9's concert was 60's themed and OWW showed up like she was in it or something wearing the weirdest outfit with her hair in pigtails. My friend and I were dying. So bittersweet watching my baby girl do her farewell concert and go to middle school.

We are getting D9 a passport and she needs pictures. I am taking her of course, and he calls me to tell me to call CVS and ask if we get them the same day. I asked him if his phone was broken. He tells me "I have to eat dinner and make war attacks on my game" What a loser. Then he wanted D9 to sleep over his sisters house his night on Thursday night. She freaked out about it, and said no, but I had a nice conversation with her and she agreed to it.

I have a lot to say lately, don't I? I am just trying to get through every day and I have been appreciative of everyone's words an insight. I just have to forget about him. I don't see him reaching out as a "friend" anytime soon. I am glad because I am no where near ready for that. Deep down part of me wants this one to be the one who said "Ginger, I made a mistake". For ego purposes solely. I will not even try to lie. There is a part that just years to hear "I miss you" even if nothing were ever to come of it. But this is obviously ridiculous and ego related and I am better off just letting it all go.

[DDJ]

Thanks DDJ. I was able to love in all those ways, but fear was attached. A fear I had actually expressed to him a few days before we broke up. I didn't say love, but I did mention fearing feeling the way I do for fear it is not being returned. I don't stop feeling the way I do, but I am fearful of it. But I did love with all of me. Without it being returned. It's a very hard thing to do. There was no condition attached either.

You're welcome Ginger. It is about the fear. We all fear rejection. We fear failure. We fear fear itself. I don't think that there is anyway to overcome this fear, as it something so innate that I think it's part of our genetic make-up. We can attempt to disregard the fear, which can sort-of help. We can learn to detach, which feels uncomfortable most times.

Unconditional love is the hardest love to have. It is real sacrifice. Sometimes it feels like crucification. You're just hanging there, waiting to just die - LOL.

That's really what it feels like. That's something that i feel DBing misses, it removes feeling of love from the relationship. It speaks only of actions. When it was the feeling that got us there, and the lack feeling that got us here.

If you can hold your head up high and say, i am a better person because I can love with all of me, mind, body and soul, only then will you find someone just like you. Only then will you find someone whole.

[Ginger1]

DDj- the rejection is getting the best of me I guess. I suffered the ultimate (exH) and everything that comes after you would think is easier, but it is actually harder. But I still love with all I have. A blessing and a curse I guess. I hope I can find someone one day who is afraid of the way I love and is reciprocal.

Journaling,

I decided to drag my butt out of the house for socialization. I've gone to the gym, but I haven't really spent too much time with friends. So my BFF and I went out to dinner and then to grab a drink or two. We discussed a lot. We both approach R's and men very differently. I told her how I know FF and I cannot be together. We both know it. Everyone knows it will technically not work out for our stages in life. How as parents, we would probably warn our children against a relationship like we had. I'm just sad he seems to have just erased me and that hurts a bit. Because I think about him all the time. But I accept the loss.

I shared with her something huge I realized about myself. I am suffering from a significant depression right now. I never actually really suffered the depression part when exH left. I felt anger, betrayal shock, and I was in fight or flight. I was a new mom with a baby to raise. I just didn't have the chance to be depressed. I worked a physically and mentally demanding career. I worked nights so I pretty much had a full time career and I was a SAHM in a sense. I was angry with my ex. So angry. That was my most prominent feeling. For years I just survived putting my life together.

I had hope back then. I had hope that I would find the one who would love us and want to start a family with us. That I would go on to marry and have another baby and blend a beautiful family. I simply had hope and that's what kept me going through.

Nothing ever happened. None of the things that were supposed to ever did. I went through a string of short term dates. Dated people I knew weren't going anywhere. I have non sustained a relationship past 6 months, I rarely ever even met anyone. My lifestyle was not conducive to it at all. I mourned not having anymore children. That was a hard one for me. I talked myself into it being for the best and thought of how great it's going to be when she is 18 and I am 45. Then exNG came along and I loved him. I loved his daughter and I thought how cool. I can love someone elses child. We had a special bond. Then I lost that and I began to lose hope. I went on AD's to stop the horrible crying. It helped. But since him,I had not been right. Depressed and hopeless on some level. I joined that gym because I couldn't sit idle. I was going nuts in my house alone with my daughter every night. I love being with her, but the single mother thing is isolating. I needed to expend my energy have adult contact. it did really good for me. GAL was doing it's job even though it was just covering up the void of what I truly yearned for.

Then when I least expected it, like everyone told me it would happen. There was FF. Pursuing me. last guy I imagined due to age. And we just hit it off. And I had said "so, this is what they mean when I least expect it?" I was finally completely fulfilled. And then Poof, it was gone. ANd here I sit feeling depressed, hopeless, defeated, tired. And I have never felt this low. Even when my ex left me for another woman right after I gave birth to our miracle child.

This is just a journal. I know I will beat this. I have to. Not for me, but for my daughter. She needs her mom fully present. And I am honestly not. I am distracted and irritable. She needs me back. She knows I am not ok right now. She hugs me all the time. She's a big hugger, but even more so. I am doing all the right things, exercising, trying to get out with friends, signing up for new activities.... I am trying. Getting out last night I felt better. I laughed. I enjoyed company and a good meal. That's a good sign.

Tonight, no plans. But that's ok. I am reading a book I am really enjoying. I'm going to clean, relax, and read. Enjoy some wine and sushi. Tomorrow night I have a BBQ with some great friends. I am doing everything I need to do.

Whoever actually read this, props to you for even trying!

[adinva]

Aw, I feel for you. It is so sad right now. I'm afraid I'm finding myself doing the same kind of thinking. It'll never happen for me...it's going to happen!!!...it's not and never is going to happen. How do you get to where you're fulfilled, happy, ok, better-than-ok, either way? I guess by doing everything you're doing and honoring your feelings until they change? As feelings tend to do?

[DonH]

As is often the case, I can so relate with all of this G. It is something I very much fear happening to me as well. Is that perhaps partly why I'm love or at least R avoidant? Not saying or sure that I am but two Rs in 12 years would support my thoughts. Thing is, I really fear having what happened to you, happen to me.

The potential difference and something I'd like you to think about, is I'm on balance very happy with my life. There are down sides to not having someone but there are also all kinds of upsides. It is said that someone else should not make you happy and your life full. That should be the case already and someone else should just add to it. I think that fits for me yet I have felt that great feeling of meeting someone. I just do feel better so I relate. Yet, the way it should be for either of us is we already have a great, full and happy life - adding someone to it just makes it a bit better.

Yet, for me, is it worth the risk? I'm not over the moon happy but I'm doing pretty well. Do I want to really fall for someone and end up in the place you are? That's really scary. I've felt that deep pain and it [censored]. Yes, I got over it and I do know you will too. There just is no perfect answer is there? It's almost dam'd if you do... Dam'd if you don't.

Getting out and doing things really does help. I've had slow, boring weekends and then weekends like this one coming up where I have more things to do than time to do them. Try to stay busy and if you want to find someone new in the future, you likely will. Just as FF happened when you least expected it, it will happen again.

[whatisis]

G, you mentioned that one day you hope to find someone who isn't "afraid" of the way you love. Do you think these last two guys were afraid or were they just being who they are? I'd guess the latter.
I also relate to Don's above post. I just don't want to go through the sh*t again. My life is pretty good but a relationship needs to be something that enriches and compliments my life not something that takes it over. I look at friends who've started relationships and it takes so much of their energy and I'm still not sure what they have in common with this person who is taking up so much of their lives! In my case, my faith is a complication and finding someone of my denomination is not an easy task. We have a "culture" and set of traditions that don't fit well with non-Adventists. Sadly, I've seen people go that route and end up with their love interest either not respecting our ways or trying to get them to convert to whatever their faith may be. Who needs the crap! I enjoy grabbing my camera and just heading out to shoot whatever I want to shoot. I read when I want, go to the movies when I want, meet friends when I want and do my church activities. Am I lonely? Sometimes. There's something to be said for having someone who actually cares about your boring day lol. Anyway, what will be will be. So G, get through this one day at a time and see what's on the other side. With someone or without, life can still be good.

[Ginger1]

I confess, I wrote like 10 replies this weekend I erased them all.

I had a 3 day weekend without child. I spent most of my time completely unmotivated and reading a really good book. I went to 2 BBQ's and out to dinner with my friend one night. It takes me MUCH energy to get out, but I am glad when I do. I do feel a little more like myself. But if I am out too long, I start to sink back and I change a little and my friends noticed. And they hugged me. and whispered in my ear "F him, he lost a great woman" HAHA!

I went to my cousins last night and she asked me what was going on when we had a minute alone and I told her. it was actually one of the first times she expressed sincerety.

Having lots of alone time all weekend...... I cried. I felt the loss big time. The hole where he was. It was probably my first true chance to wallow in it. But, when I got too low, I lost myself in my book. So if reading is what gets me through when I am alone, reading it is. My friend and I took a trip the bookstore and I got some books.

I cycle through feeling the pain of how does one insert themselves into your life so deeply and then exit out via text and no contact thereafter? The way it went down haunts me. It felt so disrespectful to what we had, to me and my D. But it's the way he chose for it to happen. I wonder if he thinks about me or if this was all never real and he just erased me. There is no benefit in thinking of this, so when it comes across my mind I distract myself.

But like I said, it is more than just him being gone. It's a loss of whole lot more.

As far as being happy with or without someone? I think I have explained this before, and our views might differ. I will not be completely fulfilled without a partner. I never had one. I had a husband for the short term who treated me like crap, and other guys who walked away when things got serious. That has been my experience in relationships and love. Most of my life has been alone, where others have been in long term marriages that were at some point good. But, I do continue to try to fill my life up by myself.

Speaking my piece of crap exH. We went to the post office to do our D's passport. ExH was being his usual d!ckhed self, insulting me thinking it was funny. The guy doing our passport could see what as A he was being and kept standing up for me. I finally started biting back with witty remarks and every time I did, the guy would start cracking up.

My mistakes will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Back at work. Just trying to make it through eachday.

[whatisis]

"I will not be completely fulfilled without a partner." Wow, that's a lot of pressure!

[Ginger1]

"I will not be completely fulfilled without a partner." Wow, that's a lot of pressure!

It's the truth. Pressure or not. I have done so much time doing inner work, being real with myself...

Really, I do not think my heart is not meant to not have a partner and 40 more years until I die without one does not sit well with me.

I'm not saying I am going to rush it. But I am not going ot sit here and say "it's fine if I never have one" because it's not.

I am not willing to just settle for anyone to fill void. The only one who will ever fill that hole is the right one. not just anyone.

[Cadet]

I do not think my heart is not meant to not have a partner and 40 more years until I die without one does not sit well with me.

That is a really long time, just saying.
In 10 years you will likely not have a daughter in your home and in fact in 5 years when her hormones are really kicking in you will be glad for that change.

A lot is going to happen and I predict good things for you!

[Ginger1]

I do not think my heart is not meant to not have a partner and 40 more years until I die without one does not sit well with me.

That is a really long time, just saying.
In 10 years you will likely not have a daughter in your home and in fact in 5 years when her hormones are really kicking in you will be glad for that change.

A lot is going to happen and I predict good things for you!

Thanks my friend! At 45 my D will be 18. In a few years, she will be doing more of her own thing. And maybe that will be my time. I'm going to keep a little faith.

[Ginger1]

This is a journal, a part of my morning routine when I don't want to start work quite yet. A place to empty out the things on my mind (even thought I never quite empty them out, unfortunately).

I had a rough night last night. I went kickboxing and destroyed the bag. I have a lot of anger bottled up in there I realize. There was an imaginary head on that bag last night.

I came home, made a nice dinner, watched a show with D9. Was scrolling on FB and I don't know what possessed me, maybe because I am a masochist, I looked at the posts from that girl. And there are all of his likes. She was on vacation and he likes almost everyone of her pictures. I couldn't even bring myself to check the profile selfie because I knew what I was going to see. So I ended up blocking him. The other girl who had a crush on him in vacationing in Ireland with these amazing pictures and not one single like.

He has been completely silent for almost 3 weeks. Not one "how are you" or ANYTHING to me. I've been around the block a few times. He has a distraction. I don't know if they are actually dating, but he is certainly trying to get her attention. It started almost immediately after he broke up with me.

I cannot handle this again. let alone with someone we knew, treated us rudely, flirted with him when she knew we were dating, and he had everything bad to say about. I feel like everything has been so disrespected. Any other girl I might be able to handle, although be sad, but this one....... it's devastating me.

So I tried to decide how I am going to keep myself sane. I decided to try to convince myself we had nothing real. Just 3 months of some companionship with a vacation thrown in. That I never loved him, it was just infatuation. That what we had was no big deal.

yeah, I am trying to rewrite history to make myself feel better. I am lying to myself but maybe that's what I have to do. I need to figure out how not to be hurt if this truly comes to fruition. I also tell myself she is sloppy seconds because he could have had her, but he chose me at the time. I also try to tell myself he is trying to slap the easiest band aid on the pain of losing me. I may delusional, but I do what I got to do.

The things I have experienced...... others would look to the outside, like him if I brought it up, and think I am psycho paranoid delusional basing this on what I see on FB. But my intuition and reading between the lines after all I have been through is sooooo strong. I have never been wrong. Never. This is a time I hope I am paranoid delusional, but I doubt it.

I found out from a mutual friend that his sister is back in the house with her son. so it's the parents, brother sister and grandkid. I am quite sure FF is busy and happy because he loves his nephew to death. So he's got his happy. The mutual friend thought that his sister would like me to reach out. I knew all about her sitch and divorce not through her, but I knew every detail through FF. I gave much advice to pass on and I felt like I was part of it. The one night he was so pissed at his sister and soon to be ex BIL, he had to get out of the house, and came to house fuming where I comforted him, listen to him actually say some awful stuff about his sister. I feel for all shes going to and want to reach out, but I don't want it to be received wrong, and it's probably not my place.

Tomorrow night I have an IC appt. Hopefully she could give me some pointers on how to keep my sanity if this is really true.

I beg God, the universe, whatever, every night before I go to bed to just give me a break. I have finally reached the "God only gives what you can handle" breaking point.

People have it much worse that me, I know. But my capacity has reached it's limit finally. I am not as strong as others. Maybe I was at one point, but no more. I know when to say "uncle" I know when to admit my defeat. I have zero shame in it. I need some divine intervention!

[whatisis]

G, you loved and lost...that's painful. By moving on quickly some people just bury their feelings, it doesn't mean they don't have any...they just don't know how to handle them. Trust me, you're in a better place than someone who handles pain that way! I also can't imagine anyone in your sitch not checking out his FB page, likes etc. We'd all do it. Good to block him, better to unfriend him. Hang in there, thinkin' of you!

[kml]

Dear girl, it WAS infatuation. True, real love takes TIME, takes really getting to know someone,. I'm not saying your feelings weren't real, but all love is just infatuation in the beginning.

This hurts you so badly because it is all wrapped up in your childhood abandonment issues, and in your deep-seated fear that you are not enough. That's what you need to be working on with your IC.

And instead of feeling "less than" because he's flirting with that creepy woman, it should be making you view HIM as "less than" . He's not the man you thought he was.

[DonH]

Wow, what an amazing post KML. I'm sure it's hard to read Ginger but I really hope you will embrace it. I would also add that I don't think you are grieving who FF was in your life nearly as much as you are grieving who you hoped he would be. He just was never the guy you were hoping or believed he already was.

Please, please, please DO NOT CONTACT HIS SISTER! Even if you did know her it would just look like you were contacting her to get to him. Don't do it.

Keep beating the heck out of the bag!

[Ginger1]

There is some truth in what you say KML. The issues are coming out with the more abandonment I face. My IC and I do work on this one. Yes, I do fear I am not enough. I've been working on that too. I think I am enough for me. That part I have succeeded on. I could sit here and tell you I am quite a catch and although I am not perfect, and I make lots of mistakes, I am enough. I need to work on realizing when people chose to leave me, and leave me and move on right away, it wasn't because I am not enough. I just wasn't "right" for them. And yes, I should view his seeking this person out as his not thinking enough of himself and acting desperately.

We had something good which didn't get to play out for a few reasons. So yeah, infatuation, never got the chance to make it to love. Wish I could tell him "I was wrong when I said I love you" Of course I will not.

And no, I won't reach out to his sister personally. I do care what's going on in her life, we were friendly, but I am better off not doing it.

I am grieving what he was in my life, definitely. I liked where we were and the fun we were having. I am grieving it ended because of the future.

I am really just going to get over it and move on. Hopefully a nice healthy relationship is in store for me somewhere down the line.

I am afraid I don't even know what that looks like, though.

[whatisis]

You thought something wonderful was happening and then it was taken away...that's a loss. You will overcome

[Ginger1]

You thought something wonderful was happening and then it was taken away...that's a loss. You will overcome

Simply put and exactly what it is. there is nothing to analyze anymore. I'm still dealing with a loss.

Thank you.

[Ginger1]

Let's veer away from my misery for a moment.....

I have noticed a theme in newcomers. Mostly men who say "but she never said she thinking about leaving!" I see it IRL too. People don't want to make changes or stay consistent unless they are about to lose something. It's like it's not worth it unless they are going to lose it. I would warn every couple to veer away from this way of thinking.

Part of my problem in R's is reading these newcomers I think. For so many years. I think I try to hard to have a relationship where we compromise, meet each other needs, LISTEN, act, and keep it healthy and not ignore it. It probably comes off as me trying "too" hard. But I have been reading about "failed" marriages most of my adult life since mine failed. I try so hard to learn from mine and others mistakes.

I think I actually have the right tools, but others haven't quite experienced or known what I have in regards to marriage and divorce.

Who am I was not the reason my last relationship didn't last. I know that. But I realize how I am in an R and what my expectations are in return. I'm afraid it might hurt me.

I swear, sometimes ignorance is bliss.

[JujuB]

Hi ginger,

Jellyb has some great advice regarding dating. She recently posted "rule of thumb is to let someone show you who they are before you invest"

I think what you are saying makes sense... that maybe you are getting into relationship mode a bit early in the process when things should really be about dating and just enjoying the person. That early relationship mode could be scary for the person you're dating. Because while what you are doing might be sound advise and good marriage and relationship tools, people might not want to feel married so eary in the game? Maybe they want to just enjoy the beginning phase of a relationship a bit longer. That phase for many guys might be more of the chase, the uncertainty, the wining and dining?

And I'm not trying to give 1950s advise where I'm saying to play games and act hard to get. But to genuinely pull back and get to know them first. They need to earn you're trust and respect and willingness to invest and utilize those relationship skills we learn here. But that takes time. We don't want to push a square into a round hole. We need to take the time to make sure that shape is round.

Would love to hear more advise about dating though. As soon as I sign my papers I think I'm trying an online dating site.

[Ginger1]

I definitely believe I have done that in the past. I am damaged in the weirdest way.

I really did enjoy all the fun dating stuff. He was the relationshippy one. So I think I kicked into DB mode.

I was not cut out to date. Let alone date as a single mom. But that is apparently what was in the cards for me!

I browsed the online dating sites last night and made no commitments. Just warming up to it again. I say go for it juju. I have no good advice as I stink at this.

I hope I get this whole thing right soon.

Joining yet a new gym with my old gym buddy friends. It's something new for 21 days. It's a small group fitness challenge thing. It's expensive and I have 2 other gym memberships and I should be a freakin' fitness model by now...... but I like food and alcohol. I'm just doing it to go with my friends and have some fun.

I have been no contact with FF for 3 weeks. One level it makes me soooo sad to not even hear a "how are you?". Surely no birthday wish. On another level, if any of you know me from the past, I really stink at no contact. I take it personally and it hurts. But I decided to keep my dignity and not set myself up for rejection.

And that feels kind of good.

[whatisis]

In DB it tells you that most guys don't see it coming...we think that when she stops nagging she must be happy again lol...then she leaves and we go "WTF?". I've yet to hear a male friend say they saw it coming...I've heard one say "Thank God she left". I had another friend whose wife left him and he didn't realize she'd left! I have another friend who came home and his family was gone...he didn't see his kids for again 20 years 'cuz he didn't know where they had gone. Anyway, I digress...in fact, I have nothing else to say lol.

[JujuB]

"He was the relationshippy one."

Hey ginger, you are doing a lot of beating yourself up..Saying that you stink at this. That you are damaged. Declaring yourself as rejected.

It was weird for him to get relationshippy quick. Especially with not 1 but 2 single moms. I can totally see how many women, let alone a single mom would be vulnerable to that. It is normal to want someone to love us and give us attention. It feels good to feel loved and to be given attention. And its easy to associate that attention and attach to the person giving it.

But its a classic trait of abusers and cult leaders and other types of scary predators of single moms with young kids to give that same type of attention early on. Its not a classic trait of a normal healthy guy. (Im not saying he is one of those extremes...but truth is, you only know the good parts that he showed you so far)

This might truly just be his issue. And maybe its good that you were not involved with him long enough to uncover the actual issue. No one will know for sure, but maybe he realized early on that you are going to be a harder target because of your maturity and emotional intelligence? (Just a quick thought. I know we cant assume) the fact that he was so hot and then so cold and able to discard so easily is a warning sign too.

Other posters brought this up, but early on it can be hard to accept that IT ISNT YOU!!! Especially when the person comes on strong and makes all sort of promises and declarements. He seems like this great guy, because he was great in the beginning. But being that great that quick is not the norm. It is smoke and mirrors (whether conscious or not)

So I am going to reiterate...IT ISN'T YOU. You are questioning your rationality and desirability but don't. I get this intuition that there are tons of shy, intimidated men that would love to date and get to know you better. You really have everything going for you.... Looks, financial independence, a good career, and both book and street smarts.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=kml]Dear girl, it WAS infatuation. True, real love takes TIME, takes really getting to know someone,. I'm not saying your feelings weren't real, but all love is just infatuation in the beginning.

This hurts you so badly because it is all wrapped up in your childhood abandonment issues, and in your deep-seated fear that you are not enough. That's what you need to be working on with your IC.

This^^^. I'm sorry Ginger. I truly am. Just seems like this has triggered in you a lot of stuff that is not about him or this r.

When you said you are "meant to be part of a couple",---- or what?

I don't know your issues other than what you say here. Obviously.

What occurred to me was that if anything is sabotaging your r's or ability to have a lasting one, it is the belief that you must be in a r to be fulfilled.

That is pressure on the R, that is pressure on the partner and that is pressure on yourself to zoom into a r that can only exist with knowledge and a wholeness in each person not needing the other to be complete, AND only exists with TIME...

I think I've been a wife for about as long as you have lived. As an adult I was always Part of a couple. Yes, it was very good for many years. Now it has ended. "Ouch" is far understating the pain of unraveling so much...

But I'm taken aback by the belief that you are not capable of having a fulfilling life without a partner. I guess that belief triggers such resistance in me for 2 reasons.

1) of course it scares me A LOT b/c what if I'm like that? I'm 57 now. I look younger but so what? My dating options are presumably smaller. Is MY Life never to be fulfilling again?

2) I do not accept^^ this. I cannot accept this^^ and in truth, I do not believe ^^this.

As I face the gaping hole a long time marriage ending, leaves, and the long distance between me and all 3 of my kids, and the financial terror I feel,

I MUST embrace what life has given me, or wither away. I mean, what are my options?


I joined a DivorceCare group that has been much more helpful than I expected. Being around funny, smart but wounded people- who want to be happy, is very healthy for me.

There's no time limit on it (how long divorced??) and we socialize afterwards. Maybe try that, b/c you won't feel so alone and by definition you won't be the only single person there!

And I think it helps to get perspective. And to meet and hear men say they miss time with their kids. NOT "Golfing with my son" or "taking my d's fishing b/c that's what I LIKE doing..."

but just hanging out with people they find fascinating, i.e. children. Just wanting time with their kids. Oh I'd give anything to have been married to a man who did not change as my h did, who did not come to value accolades at work far more than accolades (OR troubled teens) at home.

it's so great to hear and meet men who are good fathers and wanted to be good h's.

Good balance in the group. I highly recommend it. It's like DB in a way, but meeting in real life and sharing pizza and beer.


Hang in there, dig deep. Maybe learn to realize you can Be enough.

[DonH]

Great discussion and comments. Why do so many guys only do something after they see the other person leaving? That is a great question about human nature or at least male nature - though women seem to do it as well. The thing is, for me, I never considered D an option. Sadly that seems to be an early option for many. I heard Dr. Phil say this a few days ago - yes, I'm a dr. Phil fan. He said in 40 years of M the D word has never come up. It's just never an option. Is that not what it's supposed to be? Physical abuse and untreated addiction are possible exceptions but I thought marriage vows were supposed to mean something? For me, it comes down to communication. Had my exW said the things she said in the way she said the a year prior, I would have gotten it. Instead she kept much of it in, expected me to figure it out and then left when I didn't. I just did not consider D an option.

I know I have already said this but reinforcing what others have again said, ANYONE who comes on so strong so fast sends up warning flares for me. You have to, and I most always do, pay attention to what people do less than what they say. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. That's just true. What someone has done for the past two years is a very good indication of what they will do next week. Yes, they can change but then there will be a new period to predict the future. The problem is, when we only know someone for a few months, we don't have that predictor. We don't know them well enough. Even with FF, as time goes by, we will learn much more about who he really is. Until that happens all we have is what or whom we think he is. Who someone was and how they acted two years ago is the best predictor of how they will act tomorrow. How can we predict that after only a few months. It takes time to know the real person.

Lastly, I again agree with being happy with yourself and your life before anyone else can be added. It really is too much pressure for someone else to have to make is whole or happy. I think I might be happier with someone else added but it's just the cherry on top. Even without the cherry, it's already a great sundae. Just as its said we will meet someone when we are least looking to, it may also be true that when we decide our life is very full without someone that we are ready for someone else.

[Ginger1]

I am short on time, and I want to address everyone for their thoughtful input. but I want to clarify one thing.

I am happy with myself. There are things that are fulfilling in my life. My life actually is full. But there is a part of me that yes, actually needs a partner to complete the package for me. Else everyone on this earth would be single, I think. It's human nature. Not a part I really got to every experience correctly. I would probably change nothing that I have a chance to change (I would change my job and I would love some more money, but neither is happening anytime soon, I am fine with that). I have significant relationships with my friends. My daughter is awesome, we have a wonderful relationship. I have hobbies I enjoy. I try new things, go to new places. Life is full. I am actually happy with my life and myself (although I am way to hard on myself, I need to work on that some more). My soul is meant to be shared with partner though. I don't think that means I am not happy with myself or my life.

Just really wanted to clarify that. I've been ready to add for a LONG time on to that. I want that experience to love and to be loved, to share on an intimate level with a romantic partner. I really never had it. But only with the right person under the right circumstances will it ever be what I really need. The person themselves will not make me whole or happy. That is not their responsibility. I can do that myself. I have done that myself. But I don't see a healthy intimate relationship as simply a cherry on top. I see it as a part of life, SOMEWHERE along the line for me. I will just hope it will happen when the time is right.

[Ginger1]

Hey Juju,

I replied on your thread, but I want to say thank you again. This really wasn't me. The truth is he is really struggling with where he is in life. I think he sees the older woman more on the wavelength he is but the older woman with a kid does not match up with what he truly desires in life. He is a millennial. I will hand it to him, that he has some serious goals and he believes in working towards them. He wants so bad to achieve them. It truly upsets him that others in his generation are not the same way. So he looks outside of it. The girls in the large town he lives in are spoiled and still pretty immature. He struggles with where he falls on that spectrum. But he still has a lot of living to do himself, and I hope he doesn't rush anything just to have it. I think he will get there in his own due time. I mean, come on now, in 3 years, he will only be 30!!!

I went to see my IC last night which I was dying to do. I literally sat down and all my thoughts came out in a jumble and I barely made sense. We did realize 2 things. I am doing a lot better than what I am giving myself credit for. I explained my depression and I realize how I can feel it lifting in the past few days. Now I am down to just missing things. But I don't feel trapped my depression. I am talking and conversing at work again. I am not having to drag my butt too much to do the things I want. I appreciated sitting outside at dusk last nigh drinking wine, eating sushi, and reading a book alone after taking an ice run in the beautiful weather. I am good at being alone.

I actually asked my IC if I was crazy to entertain how he came on so strong, wanting to spend so much time together, even in the first week. She said absolutely not. In the beginning when you connect and you are smitten, it's a natural desire and it's ok to enjoy. She really truly believes this is a matter of bad timing and circumstance. He probably hoped he didn't need what he thought he needed because he had those strong feelings. It simply just stinks.

I realized myself last night that I am ok. I am sad, I miss him, but I'll get over it. I am weird with intimate connections (I am not talking just sexual). I have a hard time letting go of them completely. It makes me sad to be no contact, but that's what we need now. I owed him money, so I mailed him a check yesterday and I put his cigar cutter he left in there and 4 free passes to a bounce house place he kept forgetting to take for him to take his nephew to. No note, no nothing, just those 3 three things.

Life goes on. And I do have a life. One that I enjoy most of the time.

[Ginger1]

25, thank you. I want to address your thoughtful post. I do hope I clarified some of it above regarding my life being fulfilling.

I don't think I sabotage my R's. My ex was a bad choice. No doubt about it. I should have let go when he cheated before we got married. I should have let go so many times, but yeah, due to my childhood issues on abandonment, I held on. I was very scared to be alone, because I would have been pretty much completely alone. My self-esteem was so low I figured I would never do any better. I had a fling with a younger guy when I was separated. It was fun, he ended it with me for another woman. I was hurt, but my hurt lasted maybe a week and I was over it. Then I dated someone from here. It didn't work out relationship wise. But we would always come back together at some point for comfort, friendship, and "stuff". For years. It worked when until I wanted more, then it ended. Then time would go by and we would od our thing again. I ended that when I just felt rejected. But I miss that guy as a friend dearly. I realize we were very important in each others lives in a very different way. I think we made it through our post divorce years as well as we did because of each other. He is in a relationship now and I am super happy for him. I had one huge mistake which was just a fling. Then I had exNG who I finally realized he wasn't giving me what I needed, so when I said what I needed, he didn't want to give it to me, it ended. That was HUGE for me. To state my needs and end things because they couldn't be met. But yes, during that R I gave a helluva lot more than I received and that was not good. I did want it to work out badly. Then the plumber form online. a few dates, he was not what I wanted. Attracted to each other, that was it.

Then out of nowhere FF. Last person I would think due to the age. I didn't sabotage that one. We just weren't going in the same direction. I'm glad we found out at 3 months rather than a year. I learned from my others and I lived in the moment and enjoyed what we had. Then I guess we had no choice to look to the future to see if we should go any further.

My hopes for the next? We are in the same stage of life. We do want the same things in the future. As in, maybe marriage, maybe not. No future kids are deal breakers. All I desire is a partnership. I have a child, I have a roof over my head. I want something where there is no pressure to rush. Someone out of state was a pressure to rush. Having kids was a pressure to rush. I just want to be able to date someone without having to worry about where we are going next. When next comes, we navigate it, but it won't be some issue that can't be resolved. I can afford that at this stage in my life as I am self-sufficient and not needing much in the way of material things or children.

Felt good to write that. I realize I am actually am in a good spot to date. I just need to find someone in the same spot.

And I did look into divorce care when I was first separated at 28. I was the youngest by far and I didn't feel comfortable at the time. Maybe it's something I can look into again.

[Ginger1]

D9 took me out to dinner Friday night for my bday. exH had stopped and got a small gift certificate to the restauraunt we were going to. It was very kind. We went to hibachi and sat with a couple who had 4 kids under 9 and under. They were nice to talk to and their kids were incredibly well behaved. D9 got them to sing happy birthday to me when I got up to use the restroom. I loved it.

A friend visited the next day and we wen to a beer fest then his nieces 21st bday party.

Yesterday I read on my couch almost all day, went to the mall, then out to dinner with friends. I also cried. A lot. I was hurting and lonely.

FF never sent a bday wish. I never really expected it. His sister actually sent me 2, one on FB and one through text. I won't lie, it hurt he hasn't acknowledged my existence in 3 weeks, let alone on my bday. I was thinking about how so many people reached out, and how I was upset about the one who didn't. Makes no sense, right? It's not a lack of appreciation for what I have in life, but I just became aware of my emotions.

I am still hobbling along. Some days I feel a little normal, others I feel godawful, It's a process. I have just about the busiest week and weekend coming up. It should be good for me.

Oh and school began again today after a 3 week break. I am in the home stretch.

let's see what 37 brings me.

[job]

Happy Belated Birthday!

[whatisis]

I remember 37...actually, I don't. Happy birthday anyway

[Ginger1]

Thank you very much, guys!

I am looking forward to 40 only because I am treating myself to an epic vacation!

[whatisis]

I remember 40...nah!!!!

[Cadet]

I remember 40...nah!!!!

I can barely remember yesterday!!

[Painter]

Happy belated birthday!

I got married for the first time at 37.

[Georgiabelle]

Happy belated birthday, G! You are entering a great time in your life

[Ginger1]

Thank you, thank you! I sure hope this time is better than all the others!

So, I upped my Ad's myself. And it is helping a little. I am functioning better, getting stuff done, not so tired all the time and my mood is a little better. I hate that I went from being off of them to double the dose, but I gotta do what I gotta do.

Waking up in the morning has been a little rough. A little bit of anxiety washes over me but leaves quickly. it sounds dumb, but my best part of waking up was his good morning text. Asking me how I slept. Wishing me a good day. Looking forward to seeing him at the end of it. I miss that. Like I said, we had a good friendship. I don't think I mentioned.....at my bday dinner with D9, out of no where she hides her face and then looks at me with this scary face that FF used to make that used to freak me out. he was teaching D9 how to do it. It literally came out of no where. She hasn't mentioned him 2 weeks..... I guess maybe he was one her mind a little too.

The good news? I am super busy, catching up on the things in my home and life I sacrificed to have a relationship with him. Those sacrifices were worth it, but I might as well catch up now. I have been building a Match profile. Haven't signed up yet, but I have to muster up the energy and courage to go online and deal with it. I played with it a little last night. Maybe soon I'll get the cojones to sign up. I haven't had much online luck, but I am due for a little. I start volleyball in 2 weeks and I am excited and nervous about it. Nervous because I am doing it alone but not with a friend. I'll usually try something new or put myself into a new social situation, but with a friend at my side. I am flying solo on this one. But it should be a good time.

I also came across this book in loneliness while I was googling some stuff. It is written by a woman feels loneliness if a condition, and it is not to be confused with depression. There is an online excerpt from her book and I couldn't believe how much I can relate. She felt the worst of it in her 30's. She was an only child (like me) in the sense that her older siblings were much older. She was like me, with a great group of friends, sociable, always trying to be around others, but still had that sense of loneliness. If I think back to childhood, even with friends, I felt a sense of lonliness. She views human connection like I do. Connecting on a certain intimate level makes it meaningful and less lonely. She did end up meeting someone, but ended up in an isolated state again by moving to the middle of nowhere with her partner and losing other connections in her life.

Anyways, I am going to order it. Maybe I'll understand myself better and how to combat this in a healthy way.

I feel like I have been fighting all my life to overcome something. Something outside or within me. I do plan on taking sometime to love myself as I am instead of constantly trying to "fix" myself. But I think this book might just be relatable anyways.

That's my journaling/rambling for the day. This afternoon is D9's 4th grade picnic. I get to leave work at lunch and it's a beautiful day.

[job]

Ginger,

I'm glad you are feeling a bit better today. Maybe your AD's needed to be upped just a wee bit and it appears that they are working.

I would be interested in your comments about the book you are ordering and planning to read about loneliness. I'd like to add it to the "Highly Recommended Reading Material" thread so that others can order it too.

Ginger, go and have some fun today. Picnics can be a lot of fun and you never know who you might meet there. I hope it's a good day for the picnic and your daughter has a lot of fun too.

[whatisis]

Don't push the Match thing too early...heal a bit first. you want to be fair to anyone you meet. Hey, and don't be one of those ladies on Match who put up a profile, don't pay and therefore can't reply. I hate them lol!

[Ginger1]

Don't push the Match thing too early...heal a bit first. you want to be fair to anyone you meet. Hey, and don't be one of those ladies on Match who put up a profile, don't pay and therefore can't reply. I hate them lol!

Guilty as charged on the Match thing. I put up a profile and didn't pay. They are all gonna hate me.

[Ginger1]

Job, right you are on the AD thing. It helped, and I said I would do almost anything just to feel better, and this wasn't a huge sacrifice to feel better. I did well off of them when my life was going pretty smoothly. Kind of sad I need them when my life gets rocked so hard, but I realize how many times I've been broken and haven't used them, I'm just needing a little help these days.

I will definitely let you know about the book. it looks really interesting and relatable to me.

I did have fun at the picnic. The kids played the parents hung out, I love watching her interact with her friends. They all got yearbooks and signed them too. After we went to target and did some shopping. My nasty ex comes to the house to pick her up, asks if he could use my bathroom and then tells me as he is leaving he left a present for me and farted. Divorced and still have to smell his gas. I went to the gym and then came home, read and went to bed. Tonight is chaperoning the 8th grade dance.

Two funny/not so funny stories. I was in traffic on the highway on the way to work and a guy in a truck almost rearended the guy in front of him trying to flirt with me. Everytime he caught up, he would wave and smile. He was pretty cute too. I needed a self-esteem boost.

Then a chart I reviewed was a married man who went to Europe on business and got a massage with an oral "happy ending" he came in to the ED absolutely terrified he got an STD and thought he was going blind. I think guilt took him over. He will never be doing that again!

My mind has been spinning less and I have been a little less sad and much more like myself. But this morning FF was the first thing on my mind as I woke up. Guess it's just me missing him. And that is OK to do.

[kml]

Then a chart I reviewed was a married man who went to Europe on business and got a massage with an oral "happy ending" he came in to the ED absolutely terrified he got an STD and thought he was going blind. I think guilt took him over. He will never be doing that again!

This reminds me of a really sad case, early in my career. It was the late 80's or maybe very early 90's - definitely long before we had any treatment for AIDS. Saw a patient in urgent care, a nice businessman in his late 30's, he and his wife had adopted his orphaned niece and nephew, nice family. Turned out he had thrush; I ordered an HIV test on him as he had no reason to have thrush - it was positive. He'd been on a business trip to Bangkok and had had sex with a hooker there. I was the one that had to tell him he had AIDS.

[uRworthy]

Hello my friend. You crack me up...and your ex is still as as$.

You know, I dont believe in putting labels on things. Like...was it love...or not..or whatever..

You are sad. You miss him. It succks. You feel as you do. But here's the thing. You keep trying to rush yourself through your feelings. And you keep analyzing them.

Now as you know, I think.... a lot...about all sorts of things. My feelings included. Why I feel as I do and all of that.

But I have learned when I am sad about something..to give myself permission to just feel it. Not identify it or try to snap out of it. Just to live with it for a bit and to know it's ok to feel sad.

When it gets to be a problem is when I allow myself to live there. It's when I allow myself to see that there is something wrong with me because I feel what I do.

You felt something for him. He led you to believe he did, too. And for once, you dove in. You may have had some reservations, but, you jumped. G...I know how huge that is for you. Cuz it would be for me, too.

And because you did, you were vulnerable. Now for people like you and I, that is in a whole different class than it is for most. Because of how we have felt abandoned our whole lives. You let down your walls and your self protection and you just went for it.

And then when it ended...all those feelings came back. Are you good enough? Why do people keep leaving? What did you do wrong? Those feelings are our comfort zone. We know real well how to feel that.

It will take some time for you to find your center again. Because he knocked you off of it.

I wish I could tell you this wont happen again, but, I cant. It may. The thing of it is..is that you have weathered the toughest of storms and came out stronger when your marriage ended. And you will get there again because of who you are and what you are made of.

You werent wrong for going for it, G. Because if we dont take those chances...we dont grow. We may miss out on something amazing.

He has to erase you because he knows he didnt do the right thing. Easier to just forget you then to face that fact.

But I dont care about him...I care about you.

I understand what you mean about lonliness and about always feeling as if you are trying to overcome something about yourself. I feel the same things. Hard to put into words. I hope the book helps.

But the most important thing you wrote was this...love you as you are, instead of trying to fix yourself. Look, we are all a work in progress and we should all try to improve the things we want to improve. But at the end of the day, you have to believe that you are worthy.

You are loved so much by your family and friends. You are strong and beautiful and a great mother. You are warm and loyal and kind and funny.

And those things are what matter...the other things..the things you may think need improving...just arent that important. Because it's those things up there...that make you...you.

Cant wait to see you in July. Love you.

[Rick1963]

WhaTs going on in July UR?

[Ginger1]

UR, I have been reading your post multiple times on my phone all weekend. You really know how to make me stop and think about how I am not so crazy and abnormal and that my feelings are valid.

You are so right, I want to rush right through this. I am trying to figure out the proper grieving time, when am I supposed to feel better? Why aren't I completely over this? When am I supposed to stop being sad? I analyze and analyze, it's exactly what I do.

What have I been analyzing? About how guilty I am in all of this. What the heck was I thinking a 27 year old guy who desires a family and kids of his own and the dream I never had? Who the heck was I to not think this through and think he could be fulfilled with me, a 10 year old that isn't his and maybe, maybe not one more kid of his own? I feel selfish. I lead with my heart and enjoyed the good stuff way to much to think about what I could truly offer for someone of his age who is single and has the world at his feet. I realize as I do things like D9's school events, chaperoning, doing the mom thing, that it is not a place for a 27 year old single man who still lives at home. He belongs there in his due time, not before it, with his own kids. I don't like to label things either, but I think this is how I know it was love. I want those things for him. If he were to come back and say he made a huge mistake , I would tell him that he didn't and he needs to go after what he truly desires. As much as I would love to have him back.

My turn will come with a guy in a similar spot, with a similar lifestyle who wants the same things. To raise his children, have a good time with someone else, and to have a partner.

But I am sad because I miss him and his company. It's getting better though. I haven't heard from him and my dad was even kind of surprised. I mean, I am sure I freaked him out with the ILY and then I did block him on FB which is like the world's biggest insult apparently, but..... usually when you cut someone out of your life like that, there is someone else in it and that is fine.

But I do just have to look at myself and forgive myself and be content with who I am. I am beginning to realize that when a relationship ends, it's not because I didn't something wrong, or I missed something, or I need to fix the way I approach things. Sometimes, things simply don't work out in life.

The good news is I am doing much better. I am busier than I care to be, honestly, but it's probably good for me. I am up late nights doing papers, I had so many events this weekend. I noticed that I am having fun again and enjoying myself when I go out rather than just dragging myself through it. The depression is minimal, the sadness just lingers. I feel more like myself again. Absolutely exhausted today since I was up after midnight finishing my paper, but my personality has returned.

Oh, and and I put an offer on a house I saw yesterday. it's on the street over from where I love now, I have been eyeing it for a while, it's a foreclosure. I really like it. It's older, but the major stuff has been replaced. It is in decent shape and has lots of potential with a great yard in a great location. My upstairs ceilings are only 6.5 feet, so my next boyfriend can't be too tall, hahaha. I hav eno clue if they will take the offer or accept the mortage, but if it's meant to be, it will be. For some reason, this is the one house out of all the places I looked at that I felt could be mine.

[whatisis]

there's nothing to feel guilty about...you learned something. I used to think that as long as there was chemistry everything else could be worked out but now I've moved beyond that. I recognize that relationships are a ton of work even when there's a good fit. I no longer want to pour myself into making things fit. I now look at people beyond just chemistry. I'm not willing to change my life drastically just to fit someone else's life. I've passed on a few potential relationships because important parts were missing. Sometimes I do miss the feeling of being a part of someone's life, being in that special place but I also recognize that I need fit not just chemistry. If it's not there then it's not there. My life is just fine the way it is.
Hey, good luck with the house! You're starting to think beyond your hurt again and that's a good sign.

[doodler]

it's on the street over from where I love now...

Freudian slip or divine providence?

[kml]

Insist on a very good home inspection. I'm guessing that 6'5" ceilings are not up to code - if this is an attic or basement conversion and it's not up to code and not legally permitted, you might be made to tear it all out if you buy it ( that's what happens in my state if you buy a home with an unpermitted addition). Be very careful. Also even if legal ceilings they low could make it difficult to resell, the price you pay should at least reflect that.

[uRworthy]

G, be careful to only own your part, ya know? Should you have maybe thought of those things? Maybe...hindsight, though...

The truth is that there are 27 years olds that would have loved what you and your daughter offered. So, there was no real way to know he wasnt one of them. I think that maybe he should have known whether he was.

Look, you both tried to see if it would work out. I would like to think his intentions were pure going in.

I am a real believer in things happening as they should and that all the trials are paths to growth. And sometimes those paths succk along the way. LOL!

We just do the best we can and when we know better we do better. You have learned here, G. So that next time, you will know to see that you both want the same things.

You are generous to a fault and loving beyond measure...it's why you hurt so deeply.Someone extraordinary and worthy will one day be very fortunate to be with you.

Congrats on going for the house. Be careful..and open to the possibilities.

[Ginger1]

Insist on a very good home inspection. I'm guessing that 6'5" ceilings are not up to code - if this is an attic or basement conversion and it's not up to code and not legally permitted, you might be made to tear it all out if you buy it ( that's what happens in my state if you buy a home with an unpermitted addition). Be very careful. Also even if legal ceilings they low could make it difficult to resell, the price you pay should at least reflect that.

definitely going to hire a good home inspector. The one the ex and I had for our town home was great and is still around. It is very important that no major repairs aren't needed and everything is up to code. They recently replaced all the outlets, windows, doors, completely redid the bathrooms....... new roof 8 years ago.

They rejected my first offer right away, but came back with a counter, which is a good sign. I gave my absolute highest to my agent, and we shall see what happens. This home if cosmetically fixed will surely surely yield a profit when I sell. Fingers crossed!

[Ginger1]

G, be careful to only own your part, ya know? Should you have maybe thought of those things? Maybe...hindsight, though...

The truth is that there are 27 years olds that would have loved what you and your daughter offered. So, there was no real way to know he wasnt one of them. I think that maybe he should have known whether he was.

Look, you both tried to see if it would work out. I would like to think his intentions were pure going in.

I am a real believer in things happening as they should and that all the trials are paths to growth. And sometimes those paths succk along the way. LOL!

We just do the best we can and when we know better we do better. You have learned here, G. So that next time, you will know to see that you both want the same things.

You are generous to a fault and loving beyond measure...it's why you hurt so deeply.Someone extraordinary and worthy will one day be very fortunate to be with you.

Congrats on going for the house. Be careful..and open to the possibilities.

I saw my IC last night and she always says the exact same things you say. And she is EXCELLENT. She also told me to only own my own stuff. She believes he led me to believe that my life was suitable for him because he knew my sitch and nothing was hidden. She believes he tried to believe he could do that because he wanted to be with me, but in the end, he wanted something different.

I do realize, at this point,it doesn't matter anymore. We tried, it didn't work out, so now we move on.

My IC was really seeing a change in me. I was talking positively about things I am excited for. I also spoke positively about myself and she said it was like music to her ears to hear me say good things about MYSELF. She said "Ginger, I don't know how else to tell you this, but you are a dam good catch, and the right guy will appreciate one day, I just know it" She said I am not to settle. She said that doesn't mean be super picky, but not settle for anyone who treats me less than I deserve to be treated. I am also no longer going to put myself in situations where there are major obstacles like distance or a must have of more children . I was so focused on this one being so close to me unlike all my others, and that our relationship was good, that I think we overlooked some very important issues.

I would loooooove a partner by my side. But I am resettling into my usual life unpartnered. My IC stressed how good it is that I am so self-sufficient. And I am. I don't need anyone for money or to be a daddy to my daughter. I don't need to get married. I just want someone I can be loving partners with and enjoy life with. But until that right one comes along, I am better off alone. And not being so sad about it.

I realized yesterday my hope is back. I don't think it's the end of the world, or the end of my love life. Like you said, UR, everything happens the way it was meant to. I believe what was meant for me will not miss me. And thank you for those beautiful things you said about me. I can't wait to see you either!

[Zues126]

G, I made that last line because I thought it was a cute joke. But even though I think it's funny and I think I made it clear I was joking, it still looks a little snide or dismissive after the fact. I want to make it crystal clear I don't think you're an advocate of divorce or the devil's work. You are having a very important conversation and bringing up very important points, and I know your are a tremendous individual with beliefs very similar to mine in many ways. So thank you for the conversations. Have a wonderful day.

[Ginger1]

G, I made that last line because I thought it was a cute joke. But even though I think it's funny and I think I made it clear I was joking, it still looks a little snide or dismissive after the fact. I want to make it crystal clear I don't think you're an advocate of divorce or the devil's work. You are having a very important conversation and bringing up very important points, and I know your are a tremendous individual with beliefs very similar to mine in many ways. So thank you for the conversations. Have a wonderful day.

No worries, Zues! It was a cute joke and I actually smiled and laughed aloud when I read that. Actually, I am still smiling. My smile is finally returning.

We actually think very much alike in terms of commitment and morality. Honestly, I do think this society has gone to sh!t in terms of commitment. We live in a world of instant gratification now and that has extended way to deep into areas like marriage and love. I actually fear for my child. I am doing the best I can to raise her the way I see fit, which is sadly the opposite of the way the world operates.

You have a wonderful day too, my friend.

BTW, you are someone I am dying to meet in person. Sit down and have a conversation face to face with you. probably be one of the most passionate (and you know what I mean by passion) conversations.

[Ginger1]

Someone outbid me. No house for Ginger yet again:(
This state is killing me.

[kml]

Take a deep breath. As I've said before, whenever I was shopping for a house, and a deal fell through, I found a better house and was glad I didn't buy the previous one.

That being said - do think about whether you are SURE it's a good time for you to be buying a home. I was reading an article just the other day about how in many states, the math favors renting over buying now. You should look for some of the online calculators that look at that and see if it really makes sense in your area.

Also, other reasons why it may not be a good time for you to buy:
- homeownership involves a lot of unexpected expenses. Even with a good home inspection, a water heater can burst, dishwashers need replacing, roofs develop leaks, plumbing develops leaks, landscaping requires maintenance. You need to have good cash savings to meet these unexpected expenses. If buying is going to stretch your budget, you may not be able to handle these emergencies when they come up.

- homeownership involves a lot of little fix-it hassles. You can do them yourself, but they are time and energy consuming - time and energy you may not want to spend as a busy working single mom. (For instance, a hinge on one of my kitchen cabinets broke. My house is only about 25 years old but this model hinge is not carried in my local hardware stores or Home Despot. The hinges are inset into the door so they have to fit that particular shape. I have to take it off, run around trying to find a match somewhere, then install a new one. Too small a job to farm out but a pain in the neck that I haven't had time to do myself. It will likely consume most of a weekend even though it's a small job.) I definitely sometimes miss the days of just calling the landlord about such stuff.

- the biggest - you don't really know where you are going to be in a few years. You might meet the perfect guy tomorrow, and need to move. So you want to be sure anything you buy would pencil out as a profitable rental, OR be sure that you can make enough sweat equity in it to be able to sell at a profit in the future. (I've done a lot of sweat equity in my houses, you CAN make money on a cosmetic fixer if everything else is sound, but it IS a lot of work, requires good handyman skills, AND good design sense. I've seen a lot of houses where people did crappy work and used dated or weird designs and colors where all that work just decreased the value of the house.)

SO - I'm not saying don't buy, but look carefully at it from all angles. Also consider whether buying some place big enough to have a room mate would be a good idea; the additional income from a renter might tip the financial equation. (After my divorce I bought a four bedroom house - undeniably too big for me. But my mom lives with me and I wanted my three kids to have someplace they could come home to if they needed to. One son lives with me, the other two have lived here on and off. I figure eventually when they all no longer need this, I can either sell it and downsize, OR I could rent those rooms out and make a tidy retirement income - think Golden Girls!).

[job]

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