And one last thing before I go to bed in the interects of fairness, since I have sjewered the woman (my W's bff) relentlessly on these boards. While purging my surveillance files tonite in accordance with my epiphany from earlier, I stumbled across a segment from just this past week where w's bff was, to her credit, pressing my wife on the questions of "why she was doing the MC, just for appearances or to see if something actually there or could be there" and also whether or not she was going to cut contact in the interest of giving the MC a legit shot. They were genuine questions. Strange, coming from same woman who provided my wife with her cheater phone, relays messages from OM occasionally, and pals around with both of them when socializing. Still, o thought I should be fair.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Gotta throw this in there for anyone following or reading my thread, PARTICULARLY if you are a newcomer to these forums and PARTICULARLY if you have just faced the "bomb drop" (BD) by a cheating spouse or discovered the affair (A) yourself: READ SANDI2's threads on WWs! Do NOT delay in learning everything you can, becoming confident in your possible courses of action and which one(s) you intend to take and then, once you are grounded and comfortable, do NOT delay in confronting the issue of the affair with your wayward spouse. Sandi2 has said a few times that she thinks LBS's, particularly LBHs, have ONE really good shot at this, at putting their foot down, establishing the boundary and possibly (hopefully) ending the Affair. I'd say I have to agree. I was referred to MWDs books very early on, and came to these forums briefly, but I did do the work to read them and become familiar with things. MWDs advice in the books was very helpful in many ways, and significantly improved the tone of my interactions with my spouse but, due to some bad advice I received from other sources (NOT from this forum) and due to my incomplete understanding (I did not understand or even know about the dynamic of the "Wayward Wife", which dynamic was, in retrospect, spot-on applicable to my own sitch), I likely missed my one, BEST opportunity to quickly end the A and get my wife into a place where we could start to piecing. As it turns out, by failing to understand the dynamic, failing to take a firm stand initially, and by being excessively tolerant of continued contact, I actually allowed the A to grow from a mostly text-based (and some phone based) inappropriate "friendship" that was in retrospect a fairly mild EA, into a full-blown
romantic affair where my W now, I believe, thinks she is "in love with" this guy. In sum, I had a window perhaps now closed, at least for the forseeable future, to get her to "no contact" and have it stick. She WAS remorseful in the immediate aftermath of the revelation, and she had NOT completely "closed the door" on a future for us (90% closed, she said-- NOW she says, I've known its been 100% over for a long time) and, had we found the right counselor right away I probably could have gotten her to go. Instead, I let myself be talked by well-meaning but misguided/misinformed friends into believing that the A might be "not that serious", "just a friendship", and that "jealousy" and "being controlling" would only harm my chances at saving my marriage. This bought weeks and weeks of time for the affair to develop further. Later, I OVER reacted the other way, rather than detaching, and became hyper-focused on the affair, which led to the disastrous drunken night where I blew what might have been a decent second chance to get my wife to "No Contact". (She was about a week and a half in, was abiding by "no contact" except for a couple of drive-bys of the OM's favorite hangout where she didn't go in, was sulky and clearly still in the throws of "getting over" it, and then my drunken pass-out night where I confronted her enabling wayward BFF for her role in the A gave her motive (more anger) and opportunity (I passed out cold) to go see the Om and open the floodgates for the past two weeks where things have really accellerated.
Now, as I posted above, I have pulled back and put it in Gods hands. The time may and perhaps probably even will come when I will have to confront her and say "we're done, move out" and see where that takes us, but that point will not be for at least another probably two weeks, as we see how the current dynamic plays out. Nonetheless, be forewarned, newcomer LBHs...Do ALL the reading you can, here. Learn the dynamics of the WW and the methods for dealing with them, Learn the DB techniques (GAL is particularly important), and ACT on them. Have a plan. And, if you have an opportunity to "stop" it, don't let an affair fester and grow... do what you can to stop it. Sandi2 and some of the others on her have excellent suggestions on how to do so, but it has to be done early and it has to be done right.
I have blown it twice, now. Hoping the man upstairs will bail me out, now, or show me the path to doing so. Which dovetails with my final suggestion: If you are a person of faith... DONT lose it. Look for signs, listen for help, read scripture. It will give you strength and can, God willing, save your M.
Last edited by Cadet; 05/30/1708:23 AM. Reason: Combine posts
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I guess my question is how you would apply the suggestions Sandi gave you to what the DR book says? Book says to work on yourself and pretty much let the WS just be. While the Sandi's advice is enforce boundaries when the WS has already declared that he or she wants out of the MR anyways.
However your focus now is all on her affair. I hear nothing about your GAL or changes other than working out
and nothing about the issues you shared with OM (that are part of why you are here). When you were telling him about how sexual your wife was and how you were not into it, what was the point you were making? I'm not saying you were betraying her, but I'm curious.
To be clear, I cannot stand what she's doing. But you're spinning your wheels putting ALL of this marriage or divorce onto whether she stops the affair and whether you should confront or snoop and blah blah blah.
But please, for a minute forget the OM.
What would be different/better in your marriage if you were to reconcile?
How are you different?
Glad you are dropping the devices. It's 6 days, Hoos. Plan your course of action OR just leave it to the Big Guy for these 6 days and give your head and heart, a rest.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I have learned that faith is when we "rest" in knowing that God is in charge. Your part is to rely on Him to work things together for good. It may or may not be in the timeframe you desire, b/c our time is not His time. His timing is perfect, while ours is imperfect. Perhaps He will work through this MC, or maybe something else. If you have placed this in His hands, then believe He can take your messes and work things for your good. Even when we see no outward evidence that suggests something is changing.......God is working behind the scenes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Your post seems to me that if you would have done this or would have done that, she would have agreed to no contact and the A would be over.
say you "force" the A to be over? What's the next step? Your M will be healed, OM is gone and you guys have a restored M?
It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. That's why 5 is asking you what you are doing in terms of GAl and 180's. THAT is something your actions can control. When/if she does stop this A, things have to change, collectively between the two of you, else there is OM2, OM3, OM4......
Focus your energy where you can. That's your side of the street.
I am actually doing a lot of GAL and 180-type stuff. And my W has noticed and told me so... in the context of telling me she still feels "nothing" for me in terms of intimate, romantic feelings. (and this is unsolicited, we do talk periodically and SHE is the one who mentioned how much I have changed, how much she has noticed even the little things like wearing cologne, etc.) And I really have changed a lot, and I am GAL-ing as much as possible. Working out regularly, having at least one night "out" a week. Going to a new church and meeting new people. Even my general demeanor towards people I meet out has become much more warm and open as a result of my renewed faith and my efforts to change. But... she is still (or perhaps newly) infatuated with the OM. And this is why I am focused on that. Not exclusively, mind you... I am committed to maintaining my changes and 180s, etc. BUT... I do also realize that there will likely be no substantive "working on us" as long as OM is in the picture. And, so, I want that to end. I have had two opportunities, I think, to possibly have taken advantage of that might have "ended" it or at least had a good shot at it, and that was the intent of my post. Not that anyone should ignore the VERY important 180s and self improvement and GAL steps, but that you shouldn't ignore an A or attempt to address it without having a good plan and sticking to it. I did neither, and it definitely set me back and quite possibly (remains to be seen) sealed the fate of my marriage, which was already a longshot, IMO due particularly to the length of neglect of my W, the age of our kids (17 and 18 and nearly out of the house), and the presence of the bff and others who are supportive of the A.
25, I KNOW from reading you that you are sensitive to neglect issues affecting the wife, but know for my part that I full understand and own my own deficiencies, here, and am fully committed to having an AMAZING marriage and to doing all the things necessary to have that marriage and not re-do the mistakes of the past. But... won't happen unless the W starts having or allows herself to have romantic feelings for me... Which wont happen as long as she is carrying on with the OM.
In terms of GAL, focusing on self, and, ultimately, finding time for the MR, another overlay which bears mentioning again in our case is the kids... both of whom are special needs. One with Tourettes and one with very significant OCD/ADHD/Anxiety. Starting to question whether the older one may even be able to go off to college in the Fall. This is a major stressor on our lives and also a significant impingement on our time. Was certainly one of the overlays through the years that impacted our ability to easily "feed" the MR, and continues to a certain extent today. Both tend to get "locked up" on things and then need some help. Neither one is currently at a place, I don't think, where I would feel great "sending them out into the world"... and that goes beyond the normal parental feelings of worry in that regard.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
And amazing little example of this yesterday, perhaps (though honestly hoo knows except for God what impact it will have) is that I discovered I have an ally. Or at least if not an ally at least someone who appears to be working in the same direction as I am... That is, towards getting my wife and I to reconcile or at least to attempt doing so. My W went for walk yesterday and stopped by the house of an old friend she hadn't seen in a while (and, no, I wasn't snooping, she told me all of this). They talked for a couple of hours and this friend (whom I have always liked-- very sunny and cheerful person) gave her a book as well. Forget the name but something like "Love Warriors" or something which apparently is about a married couple who lost love, experienced an affair, and chose to come back to each other, change profoundly, and LEARN to love each other all over again. And my W actually started reading it. And the friend called her later that evening to follow up with her and make sure she was reading it. This happened the day after I pulled all me surveillance an my life (which I felt and was getting numerous signs that God wanted me to do), prayed fervently, and put it all in God's hands. I know its no major breakthrough or anything, but it has been just hit after hit after hit it seems with my sitch... and this was a tiny little glimmer of good news. Someone is actually rooting for my marriage.
I just cried writing that, btw. Im such a frigging sap.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
And my W has noticed and told me so... in the context of telling me she still feels "nothing" for me in terms of intimate, romantic feelings.
WW's can be sooo rude!
One reason a WW will "remind" her H that her feelings have not changed is b/c she thinks you are doing all these 180's to win her back. But you know.....whatever. WW's think everything is about them. Just don't go into "explaining" to her why you have made changes. I think that's where a lot of guys lose their edge of mystery......b/c they are always trying to explain themselves to the W. Let her wonder.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hoosjim, I am glad you have found some peace in turning your marriage over to your Higher Power (I call mine God too, but you know.... ). I am a HUGE fan of the author of the book you referenced, and have followed her blog and seen her speak twice, since her first book came out a few years ago. The book you refer to is her second book. And if your wife stops reading there, it will be a great motivation for giving marriage a second chance. I hope she does stop there. Because this story, although the author says has a wonderful ending, would probably not end the way you are hoping yours does. The BOOK has a great ending, but as in life, the story continues..... The author is still one of my favorite people ever, and she has now found peace. Just remember, no two stories are alike, and there are many possible endings. I just don't want you to be disappointed. Who knows, your wife may write the next best-seller and tell YOUR story, and I pray it has an ending that brings both of you peace and happiness. I'm pulling for you!!
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
). I am a HUGE fan of the author of the book you referenced, and have followed her blog and seen her speak twice, since her first book came out a few years ago. The book you refer to is her second book. And if your wife stops reading there, it will be a great motivation for giving marriage a second chance. I hope she does stop there. Because this story, although the author says has a wonderful ending, would probably not end the way you are hoping yours does. The BOOK has a great ending, but as in life, the story continues..... The author is still one of my favorite people ever, and she has now found peace. Just remember, no two stories are alike, and there are many possible endings. I just don't want you to be disappointed. Who knows, your wife may write the next best-seller and tell YOUR story, and I pray it has an ending that brings both of you peace and happiness. I'm pulling for you!!