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Hi Sara, I just caught up with that thread, I didn't notice you started a new one.

I totally agree that you tried everything and beyond to salvage your marriage with a very uncooperative WH. You need peace, your home should be your sanctuary. May be him being by himself withou you caring for everything in this life (house, kids, groceries, cleaning, laundry...) might show him down the road what a great woman and wife you are.

He needs a wake up call, believe me some men don't realize how much work and attention 3 young kids need on a daily basis, even if he helped you at home.

Do you think that his burst of anger might come that he realized that you are really done and you are ready to move on. He lost his control/power on you, you are no longer a wife he can manipulate with a few nice words but actually you are requiring now actions and enforcing boundaries. You are no longer afraid of confronting him even if it means to lose him.

Bigs hugs, my thoughts are with you, you are strong, you deserve being respected.


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 791
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Update:

Saw the lawyer yesterday and she made it clear no legal paperwork could be done about shared custody of the kids outside of a divorce. There is no legal separation in Florida so basically I am stuck with this jerk. We continue to be cordial and sometimes he even acts like a decent human being, he asked how my heart was doing last night. I told him it was fine but had to bite back, "Still broken thanks to you, you @ss." Overall I have irritation at him but not much else. Mostly I feel pain over not being able to give my children my dream, a loving, and strong marriage to raise them in.

I am still very tired in the afternoons after I get off work and the kids appear very understanding. DS4 is especially gentle and keeps lying beside me and putting kisses on my cheeks. I hold them close and tight, I smell their hair and touch their soft skin. Truly I am blessed. Some co-workers know things are stressful in my marriage but are not savvy on the details. Tonight one of them texted me how much they love me and admire me. They also requested I come to the next girl's night out. I felt this warmth in my chest expand and a smile light my face. Life is good in spite of this mountain I continue to climb.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Posts: 229
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So frustrating... I don't know what to tell you...

Did you try yoga? It might help you to relax your body and your mind. I started a few months ago, I was very skeptical at first but after a few weeks I started to notice that the gentle stretching on my body was having a positive effect on my mind.

Rest and reach for good friends to bring some happiness to your life.

Hugs,


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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Sara,

((( )))

I'm not sure if you caught my thread situation, but there are similarities.

It's so important not to project our situations onto others. So I caution you to always take this into account.

Yet this is a support group and we all share some universal truths, and in some cases we share a lot of fact patterns.

A decade ago I spent a lot of time pondering the whole MLC versus WAH issues and in hindsight it makes no difference, since our approaches are the same.

I think people excessively focus on MLC b/c 1) they want to explain bad behavior in their spouses b/c they believe it will lessen the pain

and 2) b/c they believe, (without much empirical data supporting this belief ), that MLCers are more likely to return to the M's.

I asked and read so much about MLC's - and now I'd just say That's over a year+ of obsessing and being sad, that I'll never get back.

I do not regret wanting to be home for our kids.

I felt that if I hung in there long enough, my loyalty & devotion to our family would be rewarded and in time...(oh my God, so very very much of my life ) ...THEN it'll make up for all the sacrifices we have made. H will return this loyalty with the passionate love we once shared (and then some). I subconsciously felt "owed."

But what I told myself was something like ..."h will see how lucky he is and THEN we can get back to what we once had, AND OR have the future we once planned..."

I wanted my kids to be raised in a good home with a solid marriage. And for at least 12-18 years, they were...I no longer can assess when h changed or when I saw the realities of him, or whatever it was. (Can people "become" a narcissist or were they always one, or is it something else??)

Here are some random things to share.

When we were piecing, h said a lot of things I needed to hear in order to agree to recon, and reconciliation had been my goal, without reservation for the first year.

But when we began to piece, We did not specify behaviors or changes other than "we will both be making joint decisions AGAIN" so it was more like we were going to return to the marriage we had before 2005...

but later on, when boundaries got blurred, I did not enforce them.

Also h's mother became terminally ill a year into piecing and so our focus got derailed...and then we never really faced the causes of the idiocy in the first place.

IF I HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN and if i were to choose to reconcile again, and piece,

I would absolutely require my h to get IC. Your h refused to do that and to me, in hindsight, I'd tell anyone that it's crucial.

I know with all my heart that we once had a really good marriage and family - yet h was willing to throw this away to follow his fantasy in Alaska.....he missed 2 years of our d's lives...he inflicted deep pain on the 4 people who loved him the most.

That's ^^ not normal, healthy, moral behavior. I wish we had gotten to the underlying issues IN H - but we didn't. Oh well.

Also when you speak of the having your kids grow up in a stable home...think about that phrase. I mean I get it, but there's another reality going on. Like your h's cognitive dissonance. That will not "fade", but will fester (I mean, without IC for him).


Fact is, my kids saw a lot of things I glossed over or turned away from in the m AND in h. I wanted to see things that validated my choice to stay.
I feel as if I was asleep and only now am awake. It's a scary place to be.

Also your medical issue and your h's behavior resonated with me a lot. Without going into more detail here hijacking, suffice to say I was very sick last fall, out of nowhere. And I was back east for a wedding that h did not attend. H is my h of 35 years, and an MD...(WTF?? I'd have been deeply embarrassed if I'd been "with it" enough).

When H FINALLY came to retrieve me after 6 days of being hospitalized, when my neurologist said I should not travel alone, he was weird.

H's behavior and his DELAY in coming, was just appalling. My family was stunned.-

So i related to your ablation story and how your h was "not sure he could get that day off".... I'm sorry to say I literally laughed out little b/c it SO reminded me of h.
(You're an MD, right? I mean, wtf?)

It was long a marriage in which h's dreams and goals and needs were eventually THE priority...and I bought into that. Pretty much anything he wanted and needed or said he needed, was okay as long as the family was intact. No h did not hit me or openly cheat (who knows what he did otherwise??)

Maybe if I had filed years ago, he'd have snapped out of it before too much damage had been done OR maybe I'd just have gotten back 10 years of my life.

So for a moment, forget the affair your h had. Just process the fact that although You are the mother of his children, when the chips were down, he did not have your back.

For ME, this was a devastating but clarifying realization.

I believe there is a lesson for you in my situation. Make of it, what you will.


And dear God, take care of yourself.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Update:

Saw the lawyer yesterday and she made it clear no legal paperwork could be done about shared custody of the kids outside of a divorce. There is no legal separation in Florida so basically I am stuck with this jerk.

Did you say you are also a resident of NY? Have you compared the Div laws there?

And you are saying you are stuck with him b/c he won't move without anything in writing and you can only get that, with a divorce?


We continue to be cordial and sometimes he even acts like a decent human being, he asked how my heart was doing last night. I told him it was fine but had to bite back, "Still broken thanks to you, you @ss." Overall I have irritation at him but not much else. Mostly I feel pain over not being able to give my children my dream, a loving, and strong marriage to raise them in.


Maybe someday down the road you will achieve that - with someone else, or maybe your h will be that someone else.

But the man he is now cannot be the man you are supposed to be married to. I think your cleric said so, himself, correct?

And as you well know, an intact m is not always a strong loving one.

I'm working hard on not ruminating. Some cultures don't have the words "should/could or would have". And they tend to ruminate less than we do. They deal with what is, and don't look backwards too much. They are "here now."

I found that^^ fascinating & useful.

I am still very tired in the afternoons after I get off work and the kids appear very understanding. DS4 is especially gentle and keeps lying beside me and putting kisses on my cheeks. I hold them close and tight, I smell their hair and touch their soft skin. Truly I am blessed. Some co-workers know things are stressful in my marriage but are not savvy on the details. Tonight one of them texted me how much they love me and admire me. They also requested I come to the next girl's night out. I felt this warmth in my chest expand and a smile light my face.

beautiful grin Health for you and for those kids - HUGE.


Life is good in spite of this mountain I continue to climb
.



I apologize for the platitude (below) but it hits me as true. I feel intensely self aware and alive lately....I know that pain can be the touchstone for tremendous spiritual and emotional growth (or the place of wallowing bitterness)...

I just wonder now - if the mountains we climb will, someday, make our lives more beautiful?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,167
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(((sara)))

I really love what 25 wrote to you. I have been reading along today and trying to think of what I can add and have been drawing a blank. I have been following your sitch since day 1 and there has always been something in his behavior (intentions) that has been missing. Then I continue to see how much responsibility you take--almost shouldering all of his burdens--and it makes me angry. I am angry at your WH! He takes you for granted and you have done so much soul searching and worked hard to change--your patience, being the best mom and W you can be, and committing yourself wholly to your M. H on the other hand remains selfish and childlike.

When you speak of throwing up a white flag to surrender I find myself relieved. Partly I am relieved because I want him to feel reality slap in across the face so he can wake up. Honestly though, I find myself more thinking that you deserve better. Either way, this does not have to be black and white, you know? You can continue on--taking care of you and kids and making smart decisions--and the chips will fall into place. Whether you D today or next month, it is your health and happiness that really matters.

XOXO
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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((((Sara))))

You have worked so hard to try and save the M. However we perceive our S's means nothing if they are not willing to give back. I am hoping that you can find peace soon.

J


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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Leah,
I can't file until I get some finances straightened out. Meanwhile this means WH will be moving with us when I move us into the new house. I am focusing on the fact that the kids get to spend their evenings with both parents for now.

Sky,
I have wondered about WH's bursts of anger, they are often out of proportion to the perceived offense. I have vacillated between thinking he is projecting to he thinks he should be treated like he's perfect no matter how far that is from the truth. In the end it was just me trying to mind read and it was a waste of time and energy. I have come to the conclusion that WH simply lacks the depth to be introspective and actually look towards fixing what is wrong with himself, he can only see other's faults, never his own. As far as self care goes, as soon as the cardiologist clears me I am going to the gym again and also need to GAL a LOT more.

25,
Thank you for long, well thought out post. There are a LOT of parallels in our stories, aren't there. The ablation situation really was a light bulb moment for me. It brought me face-to-face with the lopsided nature of our marriage. If I am honest I can honestly say it's been like this since the beginning. Early in our marriage I became pregnant and then miscarried. I required a D&C and WH was working in the same hospital, he was on call that night and only visited me for about 5 minutes after the procedure. The next day I was being discharged and his chief walked up (I was holding my bag of belongings in the lobby) and asked WH if he wanted to come assist in a wound-vac changed. WH agreed eagerly and left me in the lobby for over 2 hours. I was completely stunned. Years later WH admits that was wrong but part of me wonders why common sense compassion seems beyond him? I think WH doesn't realize I have reached my breaking point. I don't plan on discussing divorce with him until I have the financial stability to file and follow through. At that point I will alert him so he can hire his lawyer as well. The amount of detachment I feel right now is amazing. If he were to walk out the door right now and say he will only come around for picking up the kids for his visits I would feel only relief. That's a HUGE change from before.

Bluwave,
It's taken a long time to reach this place but like the turtle, I finally got there. WH has a very low emotional IQ, I have two MC who've said the same thing. Can someone change from that? I have no idea. My main fear is how WH will treat our kids when they are older and more discerning. He doesn't react well to people calling him on his BS, he deflects and attacks. As far as the Four horsemen go, he uses stone walling, defensiveness, contempt and criticism...all of them. I have a huge problem with criticism and I am trying to work on that.

J5K,
I am getting there. My sleep is improving and I find myself ruminating less. Thank you for your words.

I will probably do some GAL tonight, my cousin is in a play and I plan on seeing it. I am going to go all out, I am dressing up, make up and perfume. Why? Just 'cuz, lol!


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 791
P
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WH came to me today and said he wants to talk about us. He asked to schedule this talk tonight after the kids are in bed.

My thought, What us?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 229
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I read the posts of Blu wave and 25 and I fully agree with.

Don't try to mind read his outbursts that's a loss of time, it just a expression of their narcissist behavior, they see themselves as perfect so de facto they cannot bear to be criticized in any ways or showed they are incorrect specially coming from us the LBS.

Also, their outburst help them to "control" us, they know that we fear to lose them (since we didn't leave even after the way they treated us), so it's a way to affirm their domination on us and avoid the changes they don't want to make, they scream at us basically to shut us off. The more you are trying to negotiate the more they will keep going on, controlling that behavior is also part of the boundaries. My WH used to do that he still does from time to time, but now I just look at him and tell him, that form of twisted controlling behavior to justify his outburst is over and has not effect of me (basically the message I am willing to work on our relationship but if you don't change I will file for divorce and won't be shy to explain to people why) and I demand being addressed with respect and without any foul language because that's verbal abuse.

Piecing is not accepting poor behavior from WH in order to have him stayed, it just reinforced bad behavior, piecing is showing him that you love him but you won't tolerate being disrespected and you need to be ready to enforced boundaries, that talk about boundaries has to be done, I had one with WH, I listed my big NO NO and what he should modified if he wanted to stay in the family home, otherwise his suitcase was going to be delivered to his office with a hotel reservation stapled to it.

Did he try sometimes to reverse to his old patterns, yes, but I made sure to remind him of what we agreed upon and that the door was open.

Also, he told me what he disliked about my behavior (hey, nobody is perfect), and I made the necessary changes.

Piecing is a two-way street, if it's only a one way street, that's not piecing that's just accepting an unbalanced relationship which down the road will turn ugly again most probably. Reinforcing bad behavior had never a happy ending.


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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