Does it matter which it is and the corresponding approach? Ive ready many books and online articles and forums. I don't want to get caught up in technicalities however, even here, Ive seen Sandi propose tougher love for the WAS while most other approaching talk distancing, DB'ing or 180.
In my situation my separated wife, who still lives at home, but leaves on weekends, has not talked of departure since BD six+ months ago. There are significant financial implications for her when she departs but i have avoided discussing them as it appears confrontational and against much of what I've read to do.
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
- sought individual counselling almost immediately - pursuit for the departing spouse only lasted maybe 2 weeks before i educated myself - deep inflection of my responsibilities in the relationship struggles. Complacency, misguided love languages, and simply just not getting it until bomb drop - I've ben applying both DB'ing and 180 principals - Only lately have i been able to develop GAL opportunities as my dad passed away 2 months ago. As well my closest friends and family were hers, and i have not sought their company - Ive been preparing myself financially for whatever outcome may be - Significant life events - passing of my mother in 09, loss of a long time job around that same time, empty nest about a year ago... i could go on
At times I feel the doormat, awaiting change or the end although I have inner peace and have become the best me i can be
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon _________________________ Me-63, D30,S29
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Why do you think this is MLC? Where are you in the D process?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
through the change in life events (death in family, empty nest, she doesn't want the responsibility to arrange family gathering - which we did through the weekend, she has parted ways with her closest friends - two of which went through divorce, she wants freedom, change in appearance - weight loss, more revealing clothing, hasn't actually left, desire to quit her job, general detachment from family, discontent with aging, has new party friends, bouts of depression, some signs of behaviour change, has stated she thought to herself that she may have MLC but dismisses it, said she doesn't care what family or friends think...). While unconfirmed an affair is probable as she stays out on weekends
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
as for where we are at, I stand alone DB'ing and 180'ing, we live in the same home but we only see each other in passing (dinner and a few other small chunks of time). Anger from her diminished months ago but her stance has not been communicated as changed. She did say at Christmas she had thought of another chance, but it never went further than that
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i have not initiated relationship talk and she has neither. Although hard to believe were not married, but common law - therefore there is no formal filing etc for divorce
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
darn typos - in my earlier post it should have read that she no longer wants to be responsible for family gatherings, which was always the case, and nearly every weekend in the summer months and occasionally in the winter
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i should also mention that she has gone from about 140lbs to around 110. One friend also told her about a year ago that she never used to be so materialistic. The weight loss only occurred after bomb dropped and she has mentioned its largely due to stress, although she has always been weight conscious. She also would talk in absolutes... you never, its always been this way, which is simply untrue, but i don't argue as i learned it was a pointless argument and as such haven't been drawn into an argument in months
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
How has she she adjusted to the empty nest? Was she a SAHM? What do you think she does when she goes away for the weekend? With whom does she stay?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
She once told me, and forgot she did, say she often stays with a new couple she hangs out with. I suspect there may be someone else, gut feeling, no evidence.
She works full time at a decent job she's been at for 10 years
Empty nest has been very tough on her. Initially she cried a lot. 6 months later... bomb drop. She can't/won't make a connection between the two. Since then my dad died unexpectedly
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Staying every weekend away with a new friend? Yeah, that seems really suspicious. Are you still physically attracted to one another? What do you want to happen? How can we help?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Ive put on weight over the years, where as she has recently lost. No doubt i need to make myself more physically attractive, which I've started. The greatest support and feedback i need is support or even harsh criticism. Beginning to feel as though all is lost unless i do something more
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
So part of the wisdom of DB is recognizing you can't control anyone but yourself. What can you do to improve yourself? Physically? Emotionally? Spiritually? As a father? As a friend? How was your sexual relationship?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
It certainly is. Ive grown to appreciate that. To be honestly I learned it pretty quickly after bomb drop. For me its feeling i should be working harder somehow on reconnecting the spark as opposed to feeling idle. Some other sites and programs talk of much the same but to work on reigniting the spark through specific actions or words beyond awaiting the possibility of a change of heart from the spouse. Unless I'm missing something. I do realize that many DB and 180 actions pave the way, but after 6 months am feeling perhaps i should do more
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i have the utmost faith in the DB method I'm just not seeing much change with me distancing and Ive been applying the methods for 5 months. Yes, we no longer argue and conversations, although brief, are respectful. I'm torn whether I continue with much the same or make further change. Ive looked closer to see whether there were things i were doing that i should and recognized I do all the work around the house. Truthfully it doesn't bother me however for her its no doubt as though she gets her freedom and a well kept house to stay in. Ive stopped doing her laundry, which I never considered before. I'm not certain she feels 'the spark'. Should I be concerned at this stage? Yesterday she invited me to few hour event in support of my nephew, on her side. She left afterwards and stayed out for the night, as she does, on weekends. But it was a fun time and it was nice seeing my nephews. I caught her looking at me a few times as i joked with them and laughed a lot. Otherwise things are much the same
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I'm on the cusp of more actively GAL as I have a band practise with a group of 9 in two weeks as it kept getting rescheduled. When I first met my separated spouse I played guitar for hours a day, in fact she used to beg me to stop and come see her. I too may begin some backyard landscaping work in the coming weeks and will have my son and daughters bf assist. Ive just gotten back to working out recently.
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
no doubt the progress of me GAL has been hindered by the death of my father 2 months ago, as well as the fact that i haven't kept in touch with old friends over the years, and those closest to me were her family and friends. That said, Ive decided no more convenient excuses.
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
You keep bringing up your father's death. Was everything fine before then? I understand no spark now? But what about before b d?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
No as bomb drop was 4 months prior, although my dads passing has set back my GAL efforts. Thats what I was referring to. Sorry about that, I rambled a bit
Before BD, to me things seems ok, frequent sex etc, yes there were some issues that arose, but nothing i recognized as major... although i see it now in hindsight that there was complacency on my part as I gave her the wrong love language. Similarly I didn't understand her needs fully at the time
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
one of my greatest struggles, is while our conversations are calm and respectful, distancing has had limited results, as though i should be bringing forward some things for discussion... future financial consequences, yet i don't want to set things back
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Have you read the DB books? There is no right path for all. Every situation is diffeeent. Why are you distancing? Why do you think it's not working? If it's not working, is it time to tryout a different tactic?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
You say you have her the wrong love language? What is her love language? What is yours? How are you connecting or not? What can you change?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I think you're right in that it may be time to try a different tactic, Im just unsure as to which? As for why I think its not working has more to do with her continued camp out in the bedroom while home during the week and departure on the weekends. Although, we haven't argued in months and we can have some laughs together. I began distancing as she shared not long after bomb drop that she felt i was too clingy in recent history - prior to BD. as well when i began distancing arguing ceased and i was able to refocus on myself.Ive been applying the same tactic for 5 months, perhaps variation may help.
I gave her acts of service while she needed words of affirmation and touch. well, at least i didn't give enough of them
You hit the nail on the head by asking how i am connecting with her as i think i unintentionally fell off connecting when she at one point months back said i should stop complimenting her as it made her feel awkward. I think i was too obvious and may have over complimented
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
just ended up having a long discussion with WAS. Primarily about finances, as we talked about bills and such. It was a respectful conversation. She did express she felt in limbo, but i didn't necessarily talk about specifics of how best she could go on without me, as thats seems odd and i wasn't sure how to respond. We did talk about finances once we move on and I think she may have realized just how much impact it may have, somewhat. She also shared that she she wants her freedom. I told her I respect that and she knows i don't pursue, beg, plead, bargain etc (without me saying so).She also shared that her mom knows about our situation and said she said i should have been nicer and more affectionate. Odd, because I've never been mean, but I listened and stated, i respected her saying so. She also shared a few snippets as to where i went wrong... not enough attention or PDA and, as well as occasional jealousy and not enough words of affirmation. She also seemed to recognize I always supported her and loved her, but just didn't say so enough. While not part of the conversation, I do realize that we definitely needed more time to enjoy our own activities
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I've come to the realization, although deep down i knew, that if ever we were to reconcile, it won't be any time soon. She's lost in a fog and attached to the idea of freedom and most probably seeing someone. I still have fight in me, but need to, even more so, let go and GAL. Im at a complete loss, as how to proceed
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Wayward, MLC, was? Not sure it matters. Women in mid life crisis was eye opening to me. It was on the recommended reading list here. Here's what you've said: w is in her empty nest transition. She's lost 30 pounds and is looking good. She goes away with new friends every weekend. She says she wants d but is still living with you with some concerns about finances. She wishes you paid more attention to her and were more affectionate and generally nicer to her. She doesn't want your compliments.
How much time do you spend together now?
If she felt you didn't pay attention to her enough, your distancing may be more of the same.
Are you reserved? Quiet? Introverted? A nice guy? Do you feel you drifted apart over the years? Are you boring? Predictable? Out of shape? Low energy? A home body? Only you can answer those questions. Are there things you don't like about yourself irrespective of your w and situation? What do you want to improve to be the best you possible?
Other guy? Sorry, probably. Some guy probably started paying attention to her. Giving her compliments. Looking at her lustfully. And she said my h doesn't treat me this way. I'm not getting any younger. A man hasn't made me feel this way in a long time. I feel alive.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I appreciate your forwardness, and you're right in so many ways. We really don't spend much time together as she hides away in her room much of the time. Perhaps Im over thinking things as well.She was told me to grow a pair and then when she would distance after an argument i should have grabbed her and made love to her. It certainly helps to hear harsh realities. We eat dinner together during the week, see each other when we have a smoke. beyond that contact is not much greater.
I am an introvert breaking out of it slowly - joined a band, recognizing its time to get back in shape, energy has been increasing steadily. I also realize that distancing had its purpose in settling anger and disrespect, but it isn't enough and won't re-ignite a spark of attraction... but it had to happen
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
What I will say I've done thats worked = stopped arguing almost immediately after BD, I don't beg, plead or pursue, Im always happy and talk in a friendly tone, i don't initiate relationship talks. What I am in need of doing is reigniting the spark, I have started working out and joined a band (which i used to do when we first met), Ive committed to advancing my career. She pushed away if i did anything remotely complimentary or affectionate - so i stopped, but wonder whether i should have just changed my approach to be less obvious
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
SJS, you can do this, man! You said distancing had its purpose and now it's time for something else? What do you want to try? She doesn't want your overt compliments but there are other things you can do. Just get creative. She says she wants your attention. I don't know you and your situation so can't tell you what to do. I can only ask you questions and share my experiences with you. Paying attention: do you notice the little things about your w? The little things she likes? The chores she hates to do? How she smells? You have a limited amount of time together so enjoy it to the fullest when you are together. What softens her heart? Do more of that. What hardens it? Stop doing those things. Read DB and the book how to improve your relationship without talking about it. Does having a drink put her at ease? Make cocktails or whatever she likes to drink. Does she hate doing the laundry? Do all the laundry without asking. Does she look smoking hot to you? Stare at her like you want her. Experiment and monitor results.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Great advice. I certainly will post things as i move forward. I should point out that Im not living only for the hope of us reconciling as I know the probability is low, yet i want to certainly do all i can while developing, as i have, for me, regardless what happens
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
through the change in life events (death in family, empty nest, 1) Sjs, do you have another thread?
2) the life events you describe, will likely happen to all of us, if the death was of a parent.
My comment (see my signature block below) is that whether it is an MLC or a WAW does not change your course of action.
In retrospect, I've come to believe there is not a significantly higher chance of an MLC's returning to the m, even though mine did for a decade. I spent way too much time trying to get into h's head and figure out WHY he was doing what he was doing.
AND I spent way too much time on whether it was an MLC or the culmination of a pattern in his behavior.
I now think it was the latter, but I hesitate to project my situation onto yours. But yes, a decade ago he did behave in new ways. Stopped being responsible for bills, left for "a job up the road (300 miles) and then to Alaska to "check out a job", etc. Never admitted he was leaving me and our d's at home, or that he was selfish, or dishonest, etc.
He'd say he was not telling me things b/c I would "over react" or "he didn't want to hurt me", (so he was actually noble for lying).
Frankly, I wish I could get that time back.
she doesn't want the responsibility to arrange family gathering - which we did through the weekend, she has parted ways with her closest friends - two of which went through divorce, she wants freedom, change in appearance - weight loss, more revealing clothing, hasn't actually left, desire to quit her job, general detachment from family, discontent with aging, has new party friends, bouts of depression, some signs of behaviour change, has stated she thought to herself that she may have MLC but dismisses it, said she doesn't care what family or friends think...). While unconfirmed an affair is probable as she stays out on weekends
Ouch...
It helped me to know that in a certain amount of time, I'd leave/file. Limbo would not continue eternally. My "end limbo" date was the high school graduation of my older d.
But h seemed to awaken in time and so we reconciled. Before we could really set boundaries and piece in a smart way (that's on me, btw)
h's mother got terminally ill and the piecing process was derailed.
So If you do reconcile, know that piecing is not an easy road, and must be as clearly structured and adhered to as possible. You may want to read BLuwave's thread for help.
Hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I most definitely am committed. I'm looking for words of wisdom and experience, such as yours that may help me persevere in the right ways. I am evolving leaps and bounds and recognize it takes considerable time if change might occur in my wives view of me, but i know i needed to change for me first and need to know that i did all i could to see if just maybe we can start a NEW relationship
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
the life events, which may have amplified matters, my mothers death, loss of my job after 20 years, 2 of her friends went through divorce and she was there support - and they left her, kids move out, and most recently my dad dies after BD. I;m not hung up on them, nor do i believe they caused anything, as I don't try and rationalize what i should have done, rather i focus on what I can do now
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Ok that was poorly worded, as i do reflect on where i went wrong as it helped me understand where i harmed the relationship and used that knowledge to grow myself, but i don't dwell on coulda/shoulda/woulda, rather i think of what can i do now to move forward with or without her, although i'd prefer a new relationship together built on who we are today and going forward
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Has anyone ever searched other sites regarding savings marriages? Poor odds, a lot of talk of financial protection, taking a stance, all in all some very negative information. I am a firm believer that DB'ing provides the best possibility for self growth and to give our relationship the best chance of renewed growth, yet can't help but see all the negative info out there. I feel Im at a crossroads, a moment of doubt. I want to continue on the path I'm on but some sense of reassurance or support would go a long way
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
If you want to save your marriage, the odds aren't in your favor. But do the odds matter to you? The only question is do you want to save your marriage and how much can you bear and for how long? Read the success stories of you want encouragement but be realistic too. I want to be one of those success stories even if that is a very low probability event.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
My marriage probably won't be a success story, but I know that this process has made me more calm, rational, happier, and a better parent to my children. At the end of the day your success depends on the cooperation of someone who has shown you that they don't value you. What amazes me is that there are any success stories.
too true OwnIt. I suppose we also have the benefit of knowing that not only did we become the best persons we can be, but we also gave our relationships our best shot. Thats something i need - knowing i gave it my all with nothing more i could do
Incidentally some reconciliations can take several years and the importance to move forward i want to believe makes things somewhat more digestible. I'm still rooting for ya
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
1) Survive & thrive by ourselves in spite of their MLC. 2) Develop the skills to deal with our spouse on their terms, because right now they cannot see it any other way.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
i found a real neat article titled; no more mr nice guy, referred to by Sandi from here.Its in a post where Sandi talks about tough love for the wayward spouse. through some deep soul searching i believe i was far too passive and accommodating through our relationship and can see how that can be suffocating and leading to where i am today. I'm going to read more on this.
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Glad to hear you are learning and growing through this experience. Why do you think you were suffocating?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
repeatedly asking if she were ok when she was upset or apologizing when i didn't necessarily do anything wrong. I realize now it has more to do with her distancing, love language and my passive and pursuing expression of care. These are the things I've been working on the past number of months. My intent was never to cause anything negative however my lack of leadership has unintentionally eroded her feelings for me, or so i suspect
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
upon further reading i recognize i'm not merely a submissive nice guy, but rather I was with several of her key love languages, too reserved in giving compliments, i often recognize it tougher to do as they appeared in genuine unintentionally, likely because they were not specific enough or said in a more sincere tone. Similarly i should have been much stronger in managing finances despite her lack of desire for budgeting, favouring whimsy. as things likely built against us, she dismissed any compliments but would criticize my lack in making them, which inadvertently stopped me trying. As i look back it all comes clearer each day, yet, i know I am not that man any longer. My desire is a new relationship not bound by the past but open to a new future. I know she is nowhere near reconsidering. We still live in the same home. Conversations are respectful and often laughing. How do you reignite the romantic spark?
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Just be the best you can with our overdoing give her space work on yourself and work at a friendship if she allows definitely have to take a leap of faith to let go and not know what tomorrow will bring
more will be revealed but if it truely is MLC. it usually takes a long time for them to figure it all out
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
yeah, i still get torn between whether its an MLC, WAS or Wayward wife, only to find much of it was counter productive. I am letting go and moving forward, accepting it will be with or without her. I am hungry for learning new ways or things to consider trying. I'm certain the reading, counselling and self growth is far into the thousands of hours. Here's what I'm finding... I feel i know more than I may actually do. Feeling a need to do even more. Ive certainly brought things to a place many months ago where we can talk respectful and laugh together without the old argument habits which developed as things unravelled (in hind sight). Where I think i should consider more is having her do more around the house - i was uncertain whether i should if she is in MLC, yet sense more so that she's a wayward wife. While she is not spending elaborately I wonder whether financial division would be a good or bad thing. I am in no way a vindictive person. We are however working together to pay down some debt jointly so that in and of itself seems reasonable as it becomes much harder once apart.
I certainly give her all the space she needs - almost too much, it feels, as she leaves for weekends and stays in her room much of the weekday
by giving her space, calm respect, and positivity around me, she no doubt is not rushing out the door quite as quickly otherwise - finances play a big part as well, although i never pressure, pursue, beg, demand or plead
I feel Ive stopped the bleeding and now need to take action to reignite a spark, if possible
Ive joined a band, which i used to do years ago (before we met - in fact she used to beg me to stop playing to go see her), and I have been working out daily for the past 3-4 weeks. I'm a little limited with further GAL activities in settling my dads estate and preparing the house for sale. It doesn't help that my vehicle has been acting up and has cost over $3k without resolve
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
its been a few weeks since i posted - my walkaway wife is away for the weekend, as per usual, and its given me some tim to reflect since my last post.
i fully accept i am a changed man and the changes have stuck, yet I've been stuck as things don't seem to reach a next level and i wonder whether they will. i know enough to know that stages of doubt do occur
I'm increasingly accepting of the fact that things may not resolve and that i may move on alone, yet know i absolutely have to feel I've done all i can to try and see if things can resolve despite knowing the rough road ahead. withdrawing does not seem to give me that resolve
i feel i should be saying things such as; i want new relationship, i'm committed to do all i can to make it work, i'm a new man; yet it also feels counter productive and against all the DB'ing I've instilled in myself
any insight?
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Hey SJ! I applaud the healthy changes you've been making; good work and keep going! It gets easier and more comfortable as you go along and then you'll have another insight and another thing you'll realize needs work...its ongoing. All for the best and on to being a better you!
With that said, this caught my attention:
"i feel i should be saying things such as; i want new relationship, i'm committed to do all i can to make it work, i'm a new man; yet it also feels counter productive and against all the DB'ing I've instilled in myself"
There are two common sayings in DB-land that hold the answer or insight. "DBing is for you" and "actions speak louder than words".
We get so excited about the changes and epiphanies and new-found knowledge we've gained, that we just want to push it in our H/W's face and say "look! I'm a changed man/woman! I'm worthy of you now!". Actually, we were "worthy" all along. Just flawed humans, as they are. DBing is for us; to improve ourselves and to help us fall in love with ourselves all over again. It also gives us better tools to understand and better relate to others. By trying to TELL them this, it really will most likely just fall on deaf ears. They have created an image of you in their head that supports their behavior toward you and justifies the life they are living at the moment. Its a shield...it keeps them from facing their own flaws and doing similar work on themselves. Its easier to cast blame on someone else than to accept your own behavior as flawed. By DBing, we get to face that in ourselves because we are trying to understand what happened; we were forced to examine our behavior. Our spouses simply got sad, mad, crazy enough to run or hide. Much easier, in a way. That's why we leave them to their selves. Without us to be around to blame, the hope is that they have to eventually look at their own behavior and their part in the cause of their unhappiness.
Instead of telling them, "look at me and my changes!", we SHOW them. We show them how we are happy and unaffected by their absence by living a great life authentic to us. Often, this actually brings us back full circle to where we started when they fell in love with us; that person we used to be that we left behind while shouldering the responsibility of being "two". We show them we still love them by being kind (not smothering) despite their behavior, while holding firm boundaries to protect ourselves from angry spew, their own flip-flops, or whatever unacceptable behavior there is.
But try to TELL them? They aren't in a place where they can believe it even if they wanted to. They've told themselves that we didn't love them in order to justify their behavior. Our words are lies; not to be trusted.
Stick to actions; she'll notice. Be consistant, be kind, be unaffected by the things she throws at you, whether its a question, a new look, a harsh word, a crazy action, or an ax (practice ducking). She needs to SEE those changes. She needs to trust that nothing she does will be judged by you or hurt her. She needs to feel safe again. And the consistant part is key; it can only happen if the changes are genuine. Which means, its for you, not for her. If you're only DBing for her, those "changes" are just temporary.
You're right. We all do hit those stages where we're "increasingly accepting" that we won't reconcile or have almost dropped the rope (often thinking we have). But when we actually do, we probably won't notice. We will be living our lives. Authenticly. Without wondering whats up with them and having it affect us emotionally for the day or week.
It will take a long time, especially for those of us who were married for a long time. As I explained to my D the other day, I was married at 23. I was always "intwined" with XH's life or those of my children's for almost all of my adult life. When you think about how much people refer to or call upon the past in day to day stories and conversation, you realize there is no escape from mentioning your spouse or children at some point each day. So, you accept that part of your life, but also understand it was such a big part it will be hard to fully "drop the rope". It will take a looong time. So be gentle with yourself, but don't try to rush the process by telling her about the changes. I've done it. It was "acknowledged" but nothing more. I've found just following the "rules" but allowing him to be heard was a better way to be. We all enjoy being heard, and it is a great way to rebuild trust and understanding.
You can do this, SJ. And I see you're doing well. Just be patient and keep your knees bent. It gets better.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
i realize i may have misspoke. I suppose what I was trying to say was; she leaves for weekends, yet stays home during the week, but very much on her own in the house. i feel distancing only exacerbates matters and while we have short respectful conversations i feel i should be doing something different, something new. I don't share my learnings or methods with her. it seems she may be more disconnected than i thought and she embraces her weekends. she does reach out Saturday afternoons and i keep responses short and polite, but not immediately responded too. this weekend she took an additional vacation day off to extend her weekend away. i sense she stays more for financial ease. i'm all but certain there is an OM, although i have not gone looking for proof.. she recently said she just didn't want to see me get together with so and so... as if she's pushing me to move on. i point to the book "Love Must be Tough" as a point of reference
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i should also add that i applied the DB'ing principles within 2-3 weeks following bomb drop, i'm sensing i could be fighting a losing battle and may just be easing her departure and almost encouraging her wayward ways
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I don't think you misspoke. I guess what I was saying was, what she does should not really matter...you can't control it so don't dwell on it (hard concept, I know). You can control you. If she is gone during the weekend, she's gone. Its your opportunity to visit with friends, make new friends, have people over, spend time with kids, try new activities, etc. Have quiet time reading a book or watch what you want. You're single. Let me repeat that. You are single.
During the week, you have a housemate. You mentioned "distancing". I, personally, dislike that word. It makes it sound like you are the one being distant and creating the distance between you. It sounds like an attempt at controlling the situation. Just worry about you, for now. Just set your boundaries and be. Figure out you and do you. Gloriously, happily. I set little challenges for myself each day. Also, if something scares me, I see it as something I might need to overcome. It makes your self worth and growth register off the charts.
It doesn't matter why she stays in the house...she's there. It doesn't matter if there is an OM, other than that if you see proof, big boundaries will need to be set.
You have short respectful convos. I'm curious. Other than "hello" and "nice to see you" or "that shirt really brings out your eyes", are you initiating these conversations? I'm all for encouraging her to talk if she initiates a conversation beyond hello or in response to a nice compliment about something she's done (validation of something within her control); it allows you to practice listening which allows her to feel heard. Feeling heard and appreciated is often a major issue. But beyond that, what are the conversations about? Are you speaking with a pleasant look on your face? Lots of eye contact? Are you asking questions of her? Offering advice? Cutting her off to make the conversation short? Are you bringing up R even in a round-about way?
That's a lot of questions about "short, respectful conversations", but I guess I have a point. It is important what they are about and what role YOU play in them...start, ending, and meat in the middle. Anything approaching probing for info, seeking to control (tone, advice, suggestions), judgement, or prolonging the conversation will send her running. A dour, flat, or callous expression...anything other than "light and breezy" (accepting and warm) will also make her run. Cutting her off for the sake of following the "keep it short" rule, especially if she starts to open up or complain about something...missed opportunity to listen, learn and VALIDATE; something we all crave.
You want to do something different? What are your 180s in the way you deal with her? Sometimes its as simple as eye contact and listening. Once again; its all about the part you play and what you do with it. This is all you can control, so look at what you've done that has worked and what hasn't. Try to remember things she's said...or yelled or cried about. Think hard...was there even a kernal of truth? It might be the start of another 180. You get to be your own psyche experiment!
Look, its not easy. It really does take patience...and the ability to look hard at what's at play in the R. You can point to "Love Must Be Tough". But I think there should definitely be room for love being kind and understanding. People really only leave, if not physically then emotionally or mentally, if they are in crisis. That crisis is from their point of view, as well. We may not see it clearly...they may not either. So we get the lovely job of piecing what works in forging peace from fragmented, emotional clues shouted, snarled or hidden from us in sneaky little accidentally discovered secrets. We can't fix it for them, but we can help guide them by creating a safe, non-judgemental, pleasant refuge and "home". We don't have control over them, just us. So the most loving thing you can do is be that "lighthouse" for when they are searching for a safe place by proving through consistent action that you are strong, calm, unaffected, quietly listening and happily secure within yourself. Tough doesn't have to be stern.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
while away on the weekend i have been enjoying me time, reading, playing guitar and going out on occasion and recently joined a band - something i haven't done in years
regarding short conversations, we most often have dinner together, and both smoke so we go for smokes together, every hour or so, she often talks about something going on at work or with friends that i know, or we find something to laugh about. on occasion we talk via email or text while at work, usually short and i try to make sure its initiated by her. I'm always letting her finish her words, i'm always positive and easy to be around. I don't probe, beg, plead, convince etc
i have a long journal of her past complaints and positives and have worked through nearly all. the one which resounds is more recent comments when we danced for hours at christmas (i never dance), and after two hours, she said why now, why now, now that its too late. another one which sticks is to grow balls - which I've come to understand as take action - a past example she used was when she's mad and distancing to take the initiate and take her in my arms - obviously not something i cold do today, but a valid comment none the less
i absolutely am kind and extremely patient and have applied most 180 methods, the toughest one being GAL as I'm still trying to settle my dads estate and there is quite a bit of reno's needed to sell the house. we haven't argued in months
i'm always reading and evolving myself, which points to the question of whether I'm let her eat cake and just easing her exit as a walk away wife often has built up resentment over a period of time, she appears committed to her new friends and i don't believe she's all too connected with old friends
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I've been reading a lot about the ILYBINILWY speak i was given 7 months ago, and realize that the 180 is the primary approach, which has been what I've been doing for over 6 months - am i missing something or i am merely too little too late? thoughts?
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i have not initiated relationship talk and she has neither. Although hard to believe were not married, but common law - therefore there is no formal filing etc for divorce
are you in the US? Regardless, was there a reason you never married? I only ask that b/c some women (and probably some men) feel less committed to OR from their partners without a ring.
Especially when there are children involved too.
Also, I'm no longer a big fan of the term "MLC" versus "WAS" although it matters on occasion.
I realize you are noting that there were changes in her other behaviors, so you assume the MLC
but those changes would also come from someone trying to justify a life change.
As for a parent's death, I've lost both mine and h lost him mom in 2010. Despite how shocked I was by both of my parents' deaths, which came without much or any warning, I do know it's "supposed" to happen. I do realize this is a normal life event. Besides, I felt closer to h when my parents died.
In our case I don't think the death of his mom played a role. I could be wrong, of course.
As for depression "always" being a factor...well, perhaps. Maybe my H is depressed but frankly, he just seemed meaner to me and more resentful.
And you'd have to believe that every MLCer is depressed ==== as opposed to who? The WAS is probably not thrilled with leaving a family behind either.
So isn't depression probably common there too? Guess I'm not convinced that depression is a diagnostic tool. Nor that we'd always be able to tell.
My h was mad I didn't want to join him in Alaska for round 3, and when he didn't get his way, he pouted and resented. He kept things bottled up for a long time. Then his seething resentments led to him justifying some pretty lousy behaviors.
Is ^^that "depression" or justification, or aggression?
Does it matter?
I think our focus must be on their actions and how much of it we can take and for how long? Not "why??"...
b/c if a man punches his wife in the nose, do we really need to care if it's bc he was abused as a child, or he's a drunk or a raging anger man?
No. We care that his wife is being hit. She must leave...if he has a spectacular transformation and wants a recon, she can cross that bridge when she gets to it...
We must focus on OUR lives and our paths and our choices...not theirs.
I spent over a year of my life asking whether my h was in MLC or whatever else you'd call it when a guy who used to like being with the kids, suddenly chose an adventure over being with them...and has done so, again. I spent so much time asking "Why??"
and it's a year I'll never get back.
Anyhow, I also read that Your dad passed away quite recently and so, my condolences. It is a sad thing to lose a parent. I'm sorry.
As for your options and path to choose, unlike your take on "different" opinions. I don't see much difference in your approach I think your approach really does not vary depending on whether she is in MLC or a WAS. You have to GAL and DETACH (and really, I don't know a way to detach without GAL).
Perhaps your question is more about whether there is hope and if so, how much.
But we cannot know. I don't know enough about your history or what SHE would say if she were here. Or how she has reacted to any of your changes. SOMETIMES I think changes are easier to notice with some time apart. Like weight loss, it's easier to see if you have been apart a few months, than if you are there every day.
But I also know that time apart has its own disadvantages.
I think 6 months isn't very long but I could not manage a "weekends off" lifestyle knowing my spouse was dating, for very long at all.
Bad enough knowing he's dating OW but at least they are 2000 miles away.
So, what can you tell us about your plan, if things end up splitting?
And why is it you never married?
And what would she say if she were here? Is any of valid?
Keep posting.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
thanks for you feedback, i always appreciate your insight. i really think she is a walk away spouse. I'm committed to applying what I've learned, its more than I'm always reading and growing, looking for new ideas or opportunities
i'm in Canada, as for not marrying, everything was a bit backwards, we had kids, bought a car, rented, bought a house, i was the only one working at the time, before we knew it time passed and it just didn't seem necessary, although i always wanted to
were in a place where we are calm and respectful, it just seems to be a bit stuck, but then perhaps thats progress. as i settle my dads estate i am GAL its just hot road blocks (car died and cost far more than expected - still causing issues - lol), but i have some new friends and am reconnecting with another
a few weeks back she asked me to go to my nephews football team fundraiser and i did.
while i am committed and hopeful i really have changed and want more change - i have a sincere hunger for inner happiness and being the best me. its with that mindset i wholeheartedly accept insight, criticism and suggestions that challenge me
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
upon further reading i recognize i'm not merely a submissive nice guy, but rather I was with several of her key love languages, too reserved in giving compliments, i often recognize it tougher to do as they appeared in genuine unintentionally, likely because they were not specific enough or said in a more sincere tone. I'm not clear what this^^^ means. You didn't compliment her much, or sincerely or specifically, or?? So one of her love languages is words of affirmation, yes? This is a relatively easy one to speak in. Be authentic and expressive. And yes, specific.
The taste of the meal she cooked, the time she put into it, how she looks well put together in an outfit, and that she has a good eye for it, you're proud that she's on your arm at a gathering b/c she's so socially skilled, warm, or that she's still beautiful and sexy, sparkly eyes, etc.
Similarly i should have been much stronger in managing finances despite her lack of desire for budgeting, favouring whimsy. as things likely built against us, okay so here^^ you mention a flaw of yours, in what might be a feigned attempt to "own" something, but then you immediately blame her more...
Avoid the scorecard as much as possible. Because they are destructive and because your w has her own, and on HER scorecard you are not winning. WE all have our own scorecards and we measure things very differently. Interesting...
So, do you manage money well or not? Are you the breadwinner and providing well, or what?
Does she spend wildly & irresponsibly, or in small but fun amounts (in other words, are you carping about her buying flowers for the home, or a new car?)
she dismissed any compliments but would criticize my lack in making them, which inadvertently stopped me trying.
so it's still her fault you did not give her words of affirmation?? (How is that "inadvertent? It sound intentional)
Can you list 2 things that you need to work on, without then defending yourself? It's okay we are all human.
But That's where I'd start. Nothing about HER. Just you. Keep it simple.
Make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
You are doing good Keep growing and finding your way find things that make you happy--new connections and activities changing the things in you that need and doing this for you yes everyone reaps the benefits of our positive changes but we do it for us
You will not know how it will all turn out until it does-
it takes quite a bit of time especially if spouse is in MLC or has OM hang in-you are on the right track
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
25yearsmlc, she complained i didn't compliment her enough. when i started doing it more she actually asked me to stop, so stupid me, i did. she said it made her uncomfortable
as for the finances, i always spent minimal cash on myself and actually enjoyed her buying herself things, what i should have done is been more of a leader regarding financial control as she never believed in a budget
in an odd twist, with my dad passing, i'll likely inherit enough to clear much of the debt, yet i realize inheritance is not to be considered shared assets. not that i wave it at her, nor is she contesting, in fact she very accommodating that way
i also worked with our bank this past week to settle some of the more immediate debt concerns. which also helps should we go our separate ways
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
her criticizing my compliments came more so after BD and approaching it. After BD she said they make her feel uncomfortable but that I should keep doing that for the next woman as she would appreciate it. it through me off so i stopped. i likely shouldn't have been so overt, but shouldn't have stopped. thoughts on reinitiating them sparingly?
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
things i have been working on to improve me; listening, being more fun to be around - more upbeat, showing appreciation, laughing more, smiling more, not always offering advice when should be listening, not being clingy or asking about her whereabouts, beginning to establish financial stability (debt control and driving my career ahead - I've always earned a very comfortable living, but want even more stability to embrace new adventures), making new friends as my wife and i didn't have enough time apart and presently it allows me an avenue for fun playing music again. Ive read many many books, articles and sought counselling. Ive also been tending to some things around the house and yard, but have been challenged in getting my dads house ready for sale
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i truly do keep things about me and also embrace permanent change and constantly challenge myself to ensure they aren't short term changes. i use her criticisms more as a basis for initial opportunities for improvement. I should mention that I've purchased several online marriage saving programs as well, i know that her exit strategy and the wall wasn't built overnight (i realize that only now through research)
i know I'm missing new approaches and opportunities so by all means criticize me, i can take it lol
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i realize i didn't answer your question as to who the primary bread winner is. i make twice what she makes. i don't believe its an issue. its never been an issue for me
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
its been a while since i read DB, did i perhaps lose sight of what DBing is? i thought DBing was the 34 or 37 steps or am i confusing that with 180? and to reaffirm is 180 doing the things that she complained about? over analyzling and confusing myself?
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I haven't read the whole of your sitch, but I would encourage you to work on you - for you - and not worry too much about what she thinks..
If you - I'm just plucking examples here - spent hours playing video games and ignorin your kids - change this because you want a better R with them. Not because you hope she will notice what a great father you are etc..
As time went on, it mattered far less what XH thought about things. And much more that I was creating a good life for myself, given his departure...
Of course, any WAS could then look back and wonder - why have things turned out so well for him/her when my life seems to have crumbled??
Best not to keep looking over your shoulder...have you read No More Mr Nice Guy??
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
its been a while since i read DB, did i perhaps lose sight of what DBing is? i thought DBing was the 34 or 37 steps those steps were a compilation Sandi summarized that were based on, mostly, an amalgam of DB principles, (with some specific behaviors thrown in.) They are not "Rules" per se.
There ARE 180s to counter the WAS's negatives, and there are also principles such as monitoring for results,
So if you are doing both^^ of those and not pleading or trying to convince your spouse to return, you're probably following the gist of the "rules', which are merely guidelines to help you implement DBing. They are not the DB principles so much as ways to implement the principles. DB rests on the idea that you will do what works, which requires sufficient time testing a new behavior and monitoring for results. AND it rests on the fundamental premise that no matter what your situation is, GAL will help you detach AND will you be the most attractive confident version of yourself.
Not merely as a tactic to get a recon, but to become the best version of yourself, period. For you...
Make sense?
or am i confusing that with 180? and to reaffirm is 180 doing the things that she complained about?
over analyzling and confusing myself?
You are confusing yourself a bit. Have you read the DB books? They will resolve most confusion. As I said the "rules" Sandi wrote are not to conflict with DB principles but are methods to assist you in implementing those principles.
A 180 is first and foremost a behavior done to counter a negative image or belief that your WAS has, of you. For instance, if they complain that you are "always late", then you counter that negative image with a 180 (opposite). You become MR.PUNCTUAL and you arrive on time or early for everything..
You don't start doing the opposite, "just because".... You use a 180 first, to counter negatives with new positives.
What maybe confused you is that we also advise you to add a bit of mystery so your spouse does not assume they can predict everything you do. (Or that "you will never change".)
We don't want the WAS to believe you'll just be sitting there waiting for them on the shelf - for IF and WHEN they Might want to check your temperature... or feign interest.
So we ask that you assume an air of mystery, and that you GAL for real, to help you become your best self AND TO not be at their beck and call.
180s that are not specifically to counter a negative, but which are still a good idea, are things that just show change in you, a new interest in the world, and some 180s are just parts of your new GAL.
Sometimes a 180 is wearing cologne or new clothes, just to show change and interest in the outside world
another 180 is going to the museum instead of the pool hall, b/c you are trying to show that indeed, change is happening. So the WAS cannot say "you'll never change!"
Because you are changing, and it always, eventually, shows. NO need to point it out (then it looks like a "tactic" to get them back, not authentic change in you.)
Make sense?
Back to the earlier example, If you were already punctual, then the change is not needed and there's no 180 needed to counter a false accusation.
Not all of the WAS's complaints are valid OR are things you can or want to change. But choose wisely what hill to die on, by refusing to really look at the negative the spouse is complaining of. Some are real and valid, and some are real and metaphoric, okay?
Chances are there are some valid complaints you would like to change for yourself, anyhow. Start with those. You want your spouse to see that their data about you is not true OR is not true, [u]now.
Hope I have not confused you more.
Keep posting
[/u]
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Detaching yourself from the actions of your spouse, is key for surviving this ordeal.
First, it helps you not spin, and to keep your sanity. It helps you to not take everything or action or word from your WAS, so personally. Which is a big challenge.
In addition to meditation & turning your pain over to God/the universe, etc.--I only know one way to really Detach...which is
to GAL. (I prefer doing both).
GAL forces us to push our comfort zones (and to meet new people who don't all know about the divorce so you can talk about other things in your life!)
It's the fastest way to help you detach.
Here is a piece on detachment that helped to simplify what it meant, for me.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally All that is said, not said, done and not done. Truly...
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals. (So know your goals!)
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet their anger or indifference, with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle. Don't jump at every gesture that MAY be positive. Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want, so I must pull back."
It is the natural acceptance of the reality that we alone are responsible for how we act.
-We cannot control another person, we only control how we respond to them.
-We alone are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
-We alone are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow our Spouse the freedom & space to be him/herself.
* Not reacting to our need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational. (Not being co-dependent, too).
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy & independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail, and not feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling. Balance.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (= Balance, a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for, accept personal responsibility for their own actions, and not to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just checking in to say hello. Peace and 25 are giving you awesome advice. I hope as they have encouraged that you re read the books and focus on improving you.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
so my wife is gone for another weekend. I'm all but convinced there's someone else. I'm going out with a friend tomorrow, which should be fun. however tonight i can't help reflect on whether things are simply too far gone. I know Ive got to change things. I recently got new copies of Divorce Busting and the Divorce Remedy, reading DR first. Most of the time I'm fine, and always around her. So bogged down at times when I sit and think about getting my dads estate settled, GAL, my ailing dog... and then I realize they're excuses and I need to take action
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
something strange... or is it? this past weekend while hanging out with a buddy, his wife told me she, some months ago tried to tell my wife she was making a mistake - all the while i thought all my wife friends said things like... whatever you do, i support you.
just before that, a few days prior a good friend of my wife's, and mine, emailed me saying our local football team starts playing soon and that she missed cheering for them over a few beers. this is purely a friendly very short few emails back and forth. days later, my wife asks if i had been texting her friend, I'm honest, kept it short and said she emailed me about the football team. I know my wife speaks with her daughter regularly
in prior weeks my wife has been finding things, which are nothing, but asking me about them. A bottle of midol was on the counter, it must have fallen out of our medicine cabinet and not been put back. a week prior she saw a tampon plastic package was beside the washroom garbage and asked me who's it could be. not confrontation discussions. short then over. but odd conversations none the less
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
there's absolutely nothing to anything she found, just odd that she had even the vaguest thought of me with any other woman, beyond her saying many months ago that she wasn't bothered by the thought of me with another woman. there is nothing to anything she found. weird
she also knows that i may have a career advancement on the horizon as I've been busting my butt to do so
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
my wife went out tonight after work. she let me know ahead of time. while she leaves for the weekend its the first time she stayed out on a weeknight. When she texted to say she would be home in the morning i said we need to talk. the few texts back and forth were short. one of hers said "I'm not going to feel bad for doing what i want to do". i reminded my request to talk tomorrow stating she deserves happiness to essentially deflate things
having reread the Divorce Remedy and reread many wayward spouse posts, I've come to realize Sandi's advice of tough love and consequences ma be long over due. i just worry nothing will change things, but know enough to know more of the same isn't much better.
We share income and expenses. She gets her hair died every 4-6 weeks at about $150 and nails every two weeks. I don't have a cell phone to pay as mine is paid through work but hers is paid by us. Further she needs some cosmetic dental work for about $1-2000.
bomb drop was Oct 2016, but she is still in the house, hasn't talked about an actual move out date, nor have i brought it up.
i suspect an OM, but have spied or chased, and definitely know she is enjoying the party life with new friends a number of which are newly single female friends.
i feel i may have set things back with the texts. I tried to hold back and didn't go over the top, but enough to definitely ruffle her feathers
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
that should have read, i rescinded my request to talk tomorrow. although i certainly could talk about how i do the lions share of bill paying, household chores, and dog sitting, but can't imagine it would resolve anything
now I'm uncertain what to do tomorrow and would appreciate feedback
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I can understand your hesitation to rock the boat. You need to figure out what is best for you.
Confronting a WW rarely results in the situation being instantly fixed. I say rarely but honestly usually it makes things worse. But you just need to prepare yourself for it possibly getting worse as that may be necessary before it gets better. And in life sometimes we have to do the right/best thing REGARDLESS of the outcome.
I would not confront about an affair without solid proof. However if her behavior is not acceptable to you that is the time to put in place a boundary. A word of advice though first. You cannot expect a W who has dumped you, to act the same as a W pre BD. That is not reasonable. However you do not have to live with behavior that is not acceptable to you.
She sees herself as a free W and lives that way. Without condoning it, she is normal to do so. It is consistent. You can no longer control what she does BUT you can control how you let her behave/treat you.
I have not read back enough of your story to comment further. But the comment that sparked my attention was about you backing down from confronting her. I am not saying you should or you need to.confront her but the way you backed down screams at me to let you know how your W will view that:
She goes out living it up. You let her know you want to talk to her about it. She texts saying she won't feel bad for doing what she wants to do. You drop the planned talk. I believe your logic was to keep the peace and not add negativity. That is good. But she views it as you backing down. I will not repeat what sandi discuses many times on this forum. I bow to her superb way of explaining her logic. Please reread her stuff.
I personally believe boundaries are an integral part of a healthy M and essential to saving one. But choose your battles wisely. Don't clamp down left right and center about everything at once.
Lastly from your last few posts it appears your W has it cosy financially. Is she contributing equally? Regardless I can see why she is in no hurry to leave and it has nothing to do with uncertainty but more to do with being comfortable.
Saving a M takes a long time, but the healing cannot begin until the WAS realises it is her demons that are the root of the problem.If too comfortable your W may take a long long time before looking into her issues She has her solution and for now she is fine living it up
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I also think boundaries are important especially for us
the Mlcer will usually not follow any boundaries
you probably have tp decide if you want to continue living with her maybe you can plan more outings on your own as well and not be home when she gets back go away for a weekend ect
My XH used to get home at like 3 or 4 am many nights and then he started staying out all night He did have OW and eventually M her
He moved out and it was best because watching him drop in at 4 am was difficult on me once he left the energy in our home was better but it is a tough call some Mlcers will stay at home I hear the chances of reconciliation are better but of course it is no guarantee
No easy answer but try to take care of yourself get a hobby..make a new friend..have fun buy a new outfit visit an old friend volunteer
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
MY XH wanted to have FUN..He always looked at me as the prison guard to prevent him I expected him to be a grown up , a dad's --and he did it until he hit 40-then it was all about him as if he had no wife, no kids
While In mlc I said things to him like have fun as he left for the night I never asked where he was I listened to him talk about work I was there for him It was good for me to do that..I wanted to support him as I knew he was in a crises It didn't bring him back, but it was so worth it ..I needed to do it He moved out after 4 months from BD he filed 2 years later I tried for a long time II made a new life, raised the kids alone, worked and supported us I made new friends met another man ect took guitar lessons..joined a band at our music school when he M ow it was over for me
The goal here in DB I believe is getting a life for us becoming a better person and practicing that with our situation taking the high road no matter what they are doing when the time is pertly right..they will leave for good or they will return only time will tell
we can be as patient and present as we want,,we can keep hope for R one day,,we can change our patterns and become a better spouse and friend for a time even though it hurts like heck to watch the MLCer go and come as they please WE can choose any thing that works and we learn as we go
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I have a live in. I tried a lot of taking early and learned that it didn't do any good. Your re read the books. What can you do to try something new? You can only control you. Your kids are older and out of the house, right? So maybe you need to live more independently. Do what you want when you want. Be positive and find that place of contentment no matter your circumstances or marital status. Surprise yourself by trying new things. If you are waiting forn your w to change her ways, it may take a very long time so you need to live the life you want to live without her even if you are still technically under the same roof. If you don't like your current financial set up then you can try to change that amicably but if that's not possible then you need a L and a separation agreement. W and aI divided out finances earlier this year and it's actually made things better between us.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I agree with all your great advice. I definitely do need to live a life. For now I play in a new band (sorta thing), but still spend much time getting my dads house ready for sale since he passed unexpectedly in February
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
thank you for your comments. in hindsight i chose to avoid confrontation when anger had the best of me for a brief passing moment. the time of a stance will come when i am best informed and able to do so for me. i am still growing. often by leaps and bounds, but then in baby steps, challenging myself to install lifelong change, for me. I ask than anyone reading anything i write to challenge me, question me and help me continue to grow. to you all, thank you
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I am so sorry for your loss. It's difficult when you have to let a family pet go.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
since bomb drop my wife leaves on weekends, its been 9 months, we get along well, say thank you when we do something for one another, yet i need to rekindle a spark envoke intrigue. by all means please share any thoughts or suggestions
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
i dont disagree i just need to settle a number of financial matters (current mortgage is one which neither can afford alone, accumulated debts are substantial - equating to a loss in selling the home - not to mention a lack of upfront initiation costs are unavailable, I'm also settling my dads estate - although the inheritance will allow the financial freedoms i need to act on your suggestion)
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
Life tends to keep moving forward as we try to line up all our ducks in a row. I'm a master of this. Been doing it 7 years (7 long, miserable, excruciatingly painful, and humiliating years).
Take in a roommate, rent it out, get a part time job, etc. There is always a work around.
Please start a new thread and link this one to it.
Thanks!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
