OwnIt - I too have read a couple of books about PA and narcissism. Two of my therapists have said they suspect H falls on the unhealthy side of the narcissism spectrum, but they cautioned me that since they haven't spoken with him themselves, there is no way for certain for them to tell.
I have been secretly hoping a neon sign would appear above H's head declaring him an unhealthy narc. At least then I would have a more concrete picture of what is happening.
I think that would also tell me not to hang onto any hope of change. Maybe that is why I so desperately feel like I need to know.
Fight, I know exactly how you feel. I feel like if I knew he were NPD, as opposed to a bad MLCer or PA, or someone with narcissistic traits just spiraling in the wake of this crisis, then I too could just let go and move on. The reality is that we will never know this. I have seen many counselors. Some believe in MLC, some don't. Some believe in NPD, some don't. All the behaviors I see in NPD I see people describing generally of people in MLC or affairs (lying, cheating, entitlement, abandoning children, unexplained anger toward me, gaslighting, silent treatment, addictions, etc.).
But, what if in this circumstance you had just assumed he would not be helpful and/or compassionate about your S, did not bother to fill him in and/or expect a response, and just taken him to the Dr. when you felt he needed to go. In the end, I think you would have been happier and more in control regardless of what he is.
I just try to have zero expectation of mine. At this point I look at him as a sociological experiment. Someone I observe from afar, but don't allow into my circle or to affect my moods.
My guess is that like me you are a little afraid to just plunge in and move on with your life. As everyone here says, that will either make you a better partner when and if he comes back or will help you weather the storm if he doesn't.
The narcissistic tendencies are not uncommon with a MLCr.... infact telling a therapist how your H/W is currently behaiving it would be a very simple and logical label to place on them from the outside looking in. Problem with labeling them a Narc is the fact ... its not really true otherwise you most likely would not have been married to them for 15-20-25 years right? Take my 25+ year relationship ... currently yes she has some very strong Narc tendencies but she was never that way prior to BD, sure there was some selfishness here and there, things she seen differently than I did but I would not have tossed out a Narc label on her 10 years ago. One does not become a Narc at the drop of a hat.
Truth is, your H lacks compassion and empathy at this moment because there is so much going through his brain he is not capable of these emotions right now. Dealing with them day in and day out can be exhausting, so you have to arrive at a detachment level where it no longer drains you. You and your reactions are the only things within your control ... you can not make him feel this or that, say this or that, do this or that. You must get to the point where you allow him to go through his journey without your help .... and as far as parenting goes I am here to tell you that the quicker you become both parents the better off you and your kid(s) will be.
CaliGuy - yes, I am trying to be both parents. It's exhausting!
I do need to detach even more. I was spinning a little bit yesterday. After talking with a friend I feel much better.
A new friend of mine confided in me that she was the OW in a relationship with a married man. Her friends at the time staged an intervention with another mutual friend who also was an OW. This other mutual friend was an OW for four years.
My new friend told me what they both experienced as being OWs. Hearing it directly from someone who has experienced it has helped the information I already know really sink in. (Why do I have to hear it from the horse's mouth and not just accept what people tell me?) Both OWs described it like being addicted to drugs, they loved the attention, they were living in la la land, everything else in their lives faded into the background, etc. All the things that have been discussed here over and over.
More PA nonsense from H this morning over S's antibiotics. H asked if I was giving S his medication (H isn't around when I do it). When I said yes, H asked rather surprised "before he goes to bed?" Which he KNOWS is not true since H has been around when S goes to bed. I told him, no, when I get home from work. H then commented, oh, he doesn't seem to mind it. I said, he doesn't like it and fusses when I give it to him. H said, well, when I gave it to him on Saturday, he seemed fine. Ugh. I just said, well, maybe it's just me, then.
At what point can I hit him over the head with a frying pan?
On a different note, I found a church nearby that has childcare. My mother is going to go with me for the first couple of visits to help ease any stranger danger/anxiety I may have. I am looking forward to this and am grateful for her support.
Hitting him over the head won't help. In fact, he may have you arrested for assault. LOL!
We all have been where you are and you know what???? We all have to figure things out for ourselves and sometimes, we have to hear it from the horse's mouth. Why? Because you can't make this stuff up and sometimes hearing it from someone who has been on the other side helps us to better understand some of what is going on in their minds.
We all put labels on this mess and yes, we even try to determine if they have brain tumors or personalities...why? To try to justify the sudden and odd behavior. They may have had some of the personality disorders, but not enough to notice...but when MLC hits, it all comes out to play, i.e., because they are children all over again. They are self centered, self absorbed, selfish, rude, nasty and throw temper tantrums and yes, they even sulk. It's behavior, I am sure, none of us would have thought appealing had this been evident when we first met them and began relationships w/them.
You have to try to remember that you are dealing with someone in the range of 12-14 at this time and trust me, you can't rationalize w/him at the moment. HaWho has learned and now knows the age of her husband and right now, her sons are more mature and logical than her h.
I'm glad you've located some childcare near you. Check it out and if they are okay, I would seriously think of dropping your S off there a couple of hours at a time until both you and your S are comfortable w/the arrangement.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Ok, so I have had a funny suspicion that H and OW are in someway back together or OW has broken up with her boyfriend. I did some snooping (lemmie have it) and I think I have it confirmed.
I am just astounded at the lies H is telling her and the way he has vilified me. I really shouldn't be so surprised, should I? He lies to her telling her he cooks himself dinner (I cook, or we go out together). He clearly has not told OW our son is the product of an egg donor and that we went through four rounds of IVF to conceive him. He has gone on and on about what a great life they are going to have together and how he is going to take care of her when she is sick or not feeling well, blah, blah, blah.
Oh my. Their relationship is exactly like all the books and articles and posts I have read have described. Exactly.
I was really hoping it would work out with OW and her boyfriend.
I am just so afraid of having to share custody of S with them. I don't know how I am going to deal with it.
MLCers lie not only to us but to others, they want others to see them as "perfect".
My WH lied to me but he lied to OW too, she confirmed it to me (we had several conversations). He even told her he asked for a divorce and I refused... he never did, I asked him if he wanted one, he said no.
Your husband is crafting that ideal image of himself to OW because he wants to impress her, he is becoming addicted to the ego boost she gives him. Since their relationship is based on la la land, none of his facts can be checked.
Copy his emails if you can, keep them for you, I don't think you can use them in case of divorce since they are coming from a private account, but if in the future you have to confront/have a conversation with OW at least you can bring your side of the story, it doesn't mean she will believe you at first, but the seeds will be planted.
Stay strong, I know PA is tough to handle, it requires so much self control and when you are exhausted, sometimes you just want to blow up.
I don't blame the snooping, I did the same and I gained a better understanding of what was going on, it helped me taking decisions. We need to know what they are up to to better protect ourselves and our kids.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
I do keep the emails! Mostly as a reminder of the lies he tells the OW. I keep telling myself that a relationship built on lies cannot last. How could it?
Yesterday I went to church for the first time in a really long time. At the beginning of the service there were several songs that were sung. Two of them involving letting go and letting God. How appropriate, huh? I almost felt like I was being told something.
I have also started listening to a book called the Chimp Paradox. I am learning about how my limbic brain hijacks my logical brain. I am hoping this will help.
S and I went to a PetExpo on Saturday. We saw so many dogs, it was wonderful. I really miss having one.
Nothing much to report on the MLC front. There hasn't been any PA behaviors in a couple of days. But then again, I really haven't been around much.
I have been listening to some podcasts on limerance. This whole concept of limerance is interesting since it seems highly relevant to my circumstances.
However, I have my doubts. Not that it applies, but whether it is really a "thing" or whether it is something that is invented to explain wacky behavior by straying spouses. I am worried that I am kidding myself into believing in this concept.
What do you all think?
Last edited by job; 05/04/1704:50 AM. Reason: removed name of podcasts' orginator
