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I'd like to start by saying thank you to everyone here. I have read post after post and it has been extremely helpful.

It seems that most of the situations are husband's going through MLC and the wives are left trying to cope. Not so in my case, although I know I'm not alone. Here's my situation:

My wife and I have been together for going on 20 years, married for 13. I am 39, she is 37. We started dating right after I finished high school and she was still in. We have dated and gotten married every since then, never breaking up or having marital issues. We have 2 children, 13 (son) and 11 (daughter). Our marriage has been great and we've lived a good life together. We both have good jobs, our kids are smart and well adjusted, we take vacations, we both cook, clean, take care of the kids, and share responsibilities. Not to say there might not be things to work on with our relationship, but we have been happy together. With being together so long we probably needed to work on spending more quality time with just her and I, but I think that is common in a marriage of this length...but again, we have been happy and you can't hide that. She has always been an amazing, loyal, selfless, intelligent woman. I have always felt loved by her.

About 5-6 months ago I started to notice small changes. I didn't think too much about it at the time, but I noticed. She at first started loosing weight and working out. Lots of people pick up exercising and she was looking good so I thought nothing of it. Then, over the course of the next 2 months I started to notice a little distance from her. That and she started hanging out with friends from work more. Maybe foolishly, I still didn't think much about it. I just figured that she wanted to spend more time with friends she was making...and I thought that a healthy thing since she is normally a little shy and anti-social. Good for her I thought.

Then, somewhere around 3 to 4 months in, she started going to happy hours with coworkers, but not coming home till late...and on week nights. This is not normal behavior for her and I started to become worried. One evening she did not come home till 4 in the morning. She felt bad and apologized and I let it go, but I was beginning to see there was something wrong. About 2 weeks after that, she lied about where she was in the evening. I knew she was lying and when she got home told me we needed to talk. She explained that she had met a male coworker after work to have dinner with him. She said he had just gone through a divorce and was sad and that she was just consoling him. Then, at the end of it, there was a moment that passed and they kissed. She said she felt really bad about it, didn't mean for it to happen, and wanted to be honest with me about it. She then also explained how she had not been happy recently. She said that we had not been close recently and that she wanted more intimacy (not sex, but the hand holding and date kind of stuff.)I was floored. I knew something was up, but I had no idea. I thought that even though we should do more of that stuff, that we already did and just needed a little push.

I then jumped full fledge in to what we all do. I tried to make it better by asking her on dates, complimenting her, etc. As you know, this did not work. She said she felt awkward because she thought this was what she wanted but it felt forced. I was torn up. She continued to go out in the evenings.

I also noticed that she was always on her phone. At some point, I looked through her phone to see what she was doing all that time. I found that she was texting that co-worker...a lot. I confronted her about it and she admitted that she had developed feelings for him. She said she hadn't acted on the feelings, but that she was texting him. She also said she would stop. Fast forward a week or 2 and I found out that she was now sexting with him. She still said there was no PA, but that almost seems like a moot point. At this point, I still knew nothing about MLC. I THINK she has actually put the EA on hold, but I'm probably being naive about that., but she has been brutally honest about everything when I have asked or we have had our talks. She explains that she knows it was wrong and that it isn't going anywhere. I'm leaving that alone for now cause I know there isn't anything I can do. It is easier for me at this point to believe her, and I think for my sake I need to. Who knows...she could be telling the truth.

More stuff happened, but most of it was just repeat of above. Still going out late, cold shoulder to me, and laxed with the kids when she has always been super mom.

Although I mistakenly pushed to "talk" about things and tried to reason with her, we never argued, yelled, called each other names, etc. We even continued having sex, although I admit that it seemed like she was just letting me, even though she might have enjoyed the act once initiated. Unlike others, she has come around with admitting the issue is with her. She hasn't said ILYB, but she might as well since that is more or less what she describes. She says that she knows in the back of her mind that one day she wants us to grow old together, but she just can't now. She needs her space and to find her independence.

We started couples counseling (at her request). After Easter, there were a couple late nights drinking with friends. I finally told her that we couldn't keep doing that because it was hurting the family. We decided that she should move out for a trial separation. We had only been to 1 counseling session, but the space was needed for both of us. She didn't just leave angry. We talked about it and agreed to ground rules. That was a timed separation (not open ended), still married working on relationship so no dating, worked out schedules with the kids, and discussed maybe meeting up once a week to do something together.

That was about a week ago. The first 2 days she was gone I could not believe how much better I felt. I love and miss her, but the awkward anxious feelings I was having and the walking on eggshells was killing me to a degree I didn't comprehend. Since it has only been a week I have still seen her as she has to come grab stuff she couldn't move initially as well as scheduling with the kids. Since then I have also found this site and have actively started the DBing with her. With a clearer mindset from the split, that has been easier. I THINK I have already started seeing some micro changes.

I have never gotten the opinion that she hated my guts or anything. She seems to be handling it a little more rationally than some, although she is definitely a MLCer exhibiting all the behavior.

Yesterday I felt really good and started making plans for myself. Today I am a little more solemn. I think the good thing is that my lows are not quite as low...and that I have highs at all (been a bit since I've felt happy).

Trying to make it through...


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-63, D30,S29


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Sjohn6, welcome to this unfortunate club. My wonderful wife gave me the b d 9'months ago. W most days is still friendly and affectionate. She has a fantasy about an employee of hers. We still have sex and live together. She is taking d proceedings very slowly. You are not alone. Yes, she wants space and independence but still wants the benefits of m and family.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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sjohns6

so sorry you are here. as you have started to focus on you your children will need you so much more. MLC'r tend to forget parenting 101. I/m so glad you found this place. You will be well guided.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Thank you guys for the encouragement. Every day seems like a battle to get through. It seems that she thinks she is making efforts to fix things because we are separated and working on things while being enrolled in counseling. She is nice when I see her for 10 minutes every couple of days to trade off with the kids. She hugs me and gives me a kiss (peck on the lips) when she leaves. She will occasionally text me to see how my days was. She has explained at times that she feels empty of emotion, and I see the things she is doing as calculated measures to string me along until she is ready to return. It seems a positive thing in one way that she wants to keep up relations. On the other hand, she is my wife of 20 years that we have had a great relationship so a quick hug after a 10 minute conversation just isn't filling the void for me.

Having said that, I am trying to just be her friend and not peruse her at all. I reply to her text, but in a short but friendly way (WAS: How was your day - Me: Good, and yours). I feel like I am doing all the right things, but I still feel terrible inside and cry myself to sleep more times than I care to admit. I will have an up day where I feel like I am on top of things, only to feel really down for 3 days after. The lows are not as low...but it still hurts.

My concern now is that if we are apart and I start to heal, are we going to grow apart to the degree that I won't be interested in fixing things?


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Have you thought about not responding to her texts as quickly as you have been? Maybe take an hour or so before responding. Sometimes, it's best not to appear like you are sitting there waiting for them to ring you run, etc.

Also, live in the present, as it is a gift of time. The future is not ours to see and it will unfold as time moves along. At this time, I wouldn't be worried about whether or not you will be interested in fixing things in the future. Just focus on the there and now. Okay?


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thank you for that. I have been working on the reply thing. I have been trying to wait on replies...and there have been a couple texts that I didn't reply to at all. They didn't warrant a reply, but we have always at least acknowledged that a message was received, so not replying at all is something different...even if a reply wasn't warranted.

I have been trying to live for me and in the moment, that is just really hard to do ALL the time. I am really glad I found this website as it has helped so much.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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When you say you are actively DBing, what does that mean? Job is right. Don't dwell on the past or the future. Live in the present. You can only control you in the here and now. You will have good and bad days. What people and activities comfort you? Friends? Exercise?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Originally Posted By: job

Also, live in the present, as it is a gift of time. The future is not ours to see and it will unfold as time moves along. At this time, I wouldn't be worried about whether or not you will be interested in fixing things in the future. Just focus on the there and now. Okay?


Originally Posted By: Gordie
When you say you are actively DBing, what does that mean? Job is right. Don't dwell on the past or the future. Live in the present. You can only control you in the here and now. You will have good and bad days. What people and activities comfort you? Friends? Exercise?


Job and Gordie are both correct.
Focus on you in the present.
Stay strong for your kids.
Keep yourself healthy...it is harder when you are stressed. (speaking from experience)
Get closer to God and ask him to guide your steps.
She is confused and lost right now and she is on a journey that she has to walk...only, she has to walk it alone an figure out what it is that she has to overcome.
You control you.
We are here for you to vent to when you need to let off some steam.


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
ILYBINILWYA
HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17
Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
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I can't thank you enough for the advice. I read these things all throughout this site, but for whatever reason, it helps more when directed at me specifically.

As for DBing, I mainly meant that I am not in pursuit mode anymore (I think...trying to understand cake eating and her maybe trying to get me to peruse again). Not actively contacting her, pushing her in to R conversations, letting her have her space without questioning things she's doing...and have even stopped snooping on my own even though I have the capabilities.

Now I'm just trying to get an active handle on how I should interact with her when I see her (not fall victim to pursuit games while remaining cordial)...and how to live for myself without focusing on her in my head all day.

I have actually started doing things for myself like exercising (lost about 20lbs through this and was not heavy to begin with), hanging out with friends, and teaching myself the piano. It helps a little but it also feels a little empty. I figure if I keep up with it things will get better. Some days are harder than others...


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Joined: Apr 2014
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Originally Posted By: sjohns6

Now I'm just trying to get an active handle on how I should interact with her when I see her (not fall victim to pursuit games while remaining cordial)...and how to live for myself without focusing on her in my head all day.


Hello sjohns6,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal.

You are so smart to recognize that you need to not focus on her in your head all day. Put all of your time, effort and energy into being the best sjohns6 and Dad that only a fool would leave.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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You are doing good

Its not easy applying these strategies and letting the MLCer do their thing

Its not what we wanted

How old are your kids and who do they live with?


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
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I want to start by thanking all of you. I have posted once before, but in a less watched forum...but I have been lurking for months. I have gained tremendous support just by reading all the posts and suggestions for others. I am trying to do the rights things for my situation...but as you know, it is very hard.

After reading a lot of posts by Sandi, I understand that my wife is wayward. She has been moved out in her apartments for about a month now. Initially I stopped reaching out to her via call/text/email...letting her contact me. That seemed to help.She started reaching out to me a little. Asking me how my day went, what I had for dinner, etc. She also started hugging me when she left, and sometimes giving me a kiss.

At first this seemed like a step in the right direction and I was feeling a little better about things. I wasn't pushing, but I accepted the small things she was doing. After a short time, though...I realized it just didn't feel right. After pouring over these forums, I now thing she is/was temp checking me and cake eating. I could be wrong I guess, but she is still doing her own thing and living in an apartment, so I am not so sure she is actually getting any better. After all she has done to hurt the family, I would think that getting better would look more like remorse and regret with a promise to make things better. Are we really getting anywhere if it doesn't look like that?

So, the last few days I have gone a little more dark. I have not been initiating any contact, and have been slow to reply to hers. When we did talk the other day, I was short with her. Not rude, but not oversharing or asking her any questions. I was just cordial. This is a slight variation to what I was doing before. Before, I wasn't initiating contact, but when she did I was actively participating, sharing my day with her when she asked about it. Since the conversation where I was just cordial, we have not spoken.

We are in counseling, but in counseling she talked about losing a connection between us and wanting to develop our friendship because she missed her best friend of 20 years (me). While I admit that I miss our friendship too, I don't think being her BFF is what I want out of our relationship. Should I be trying to develop that again as a step to fix our marriage, or is that a step in the wrong direction?

This has been difficult for me because I love her, and when it seems she is trying to reach out, I want to be receptive to it...even through it may be the wrong thing to do.

I had a weak moment today. I looked at the phone bill (have not done that in a while for my own sanity). I saw that she had texted OM (see original post, EA that she said she stopped) until 1 in the morning. My guess is she is cycling right now. I am guessing she feels depressed about our interaction and is getting fulfillment from OM. I know I can't be thinking about that right now...and I really wish I hadn't checked the phone bill. I have been good about it, but I did have that weak moment.

So I will see her today and my sons award ceremony at school and I really just don't know how to behave around her or what to say.

I need to GAL. I have really been trying, but I just can't seem to get my head in to it. I've been exercising/working out, been hanging out with friends a little, started piano lessons, and a few other things. It helps sometimes, but mostly I feel like I am just going through the motions.

I feel like if I were reading this post as someone else's post, I would know just what to say to them them based on all I have read here. But instead I feel so lost and confused and depressed.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Me-39, W-37, S-13, D-11

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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SJ,

Why are you in MC when she is in an active A? You say EA are you sure it's not a PA?

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I am in counseling because she suggested it and I thought that a good sign. Also, she isn't admitting its an EA, she says they are just friends. So...probably going just because I am confused about what is really going on. Do you think I should stop it? I mean, would I not have to tell her I don't believe she isn't in an A (EA or PA) to justify quitting counseling? What would that do if she is claiming just a friendship?

Ugh...she just texted me and asked how my day was going and if I was going to our sons award ceremony. Do I reply to that? I am normally a quick thinker but I feel so scattered right now.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
Joined: Feb 2017
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Friends of the opposite sex do not text one another at 1:00 am in the morning.

IMO MC while your wife is in an A is a waste of money and she can use it against you. "we did marriage counseling and it didn't work".

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thank you. That makes sense. So how, in your opinion, do I go about it? We have a counseling session scheduled for next week. Do I just cancel that, or do I go to that one but bring up during it that while she is carrying on with the A we should stop counseling?

During counseling in our first session, W said that she would stop communication with OM to focus on R. When I brought him up in another session, the MC suggested that we had decided not to focus on that and work on our R, so I dropped it. I knew that was wrong, but didn't know what to say at the time. Now I realize that the counseling isn't doing any good, but have felt compelled to go because it was her idea and that seemed like a good sign.


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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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I wouldn't do any more MC until she agrees to NC with other M, agrees to full transparency and is fully committed to working on the marriage.

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Thank you Cadet. I have read excerpts of those online...and it has been enough for me to realize that I do need those books.

LH, I am sure you are right. So do I just call her and tell her that? Why does that seem like such a hard thing to do?


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And when I tell her that, I am sure she will say she isn't in an EA/PA. Do I admit to her then that I snooped her calls? Would that be a bad ting to admit? Or do I maybe ask to see her phone if she denies it and say nothing of the phone bill?

When we communicate it has gone better lately and I am just very leery of doing anything to cause a negative conversation.


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Quote:
We are in counseling, but in counseling she talked about losing a connection between us and wanting to develop our friendship because she missed her best friend of 20 years (me). While I admit that I miss our friendship too, I don't think being her BFF is what I want out of our relationship. Should I be trying to develop that again as a step to fix our marriage, or is that a step in the wrong direction?


Look, she has the OM for her romantic/love/desire interest.....and she wants you for the best friend. In a way, it's like being the best man at the wedding, instead of being the groom.

Do you want to be best friends with the woman who is cheating on you and lying to you? I can't remember a case where the wayward wife didn't want her H to be her friend (in the beginning, anyway), but she didn't want him for a husband. What does that tell you? Pretty much a demotion, don't you think?

As for being the right direction or step to fix your MR.....I don't think it is, and I'll tell you why. The wayward wife just wants her H for a buddy without any love/desire that spouses have for one another. Her LBH is similar to her favorite worn out old house shoes......she's not quite ready to throw away, b/c they feel so comfortable. She also wants to remain footloose to be with the other man (or men), and to live the single life. Pretty good setup for her. In her head, having her H as her BFF means he is there whenever it's convenient for her. His friendship means she gets to use him for a handyman (utility man, tech guy, errand boy, construction/plumber), a baby sitter, complaint dept, yack in his ear when she's bored or lonely, and use his wide shoulders to cry on when she feels sorry for herself and wants to be comforted. She may even do things with him, when she isn't with the OM or have something better. A WW's motivation in this so called friendship is based on what she needs.....what she wants....and what he can do for her. She has no intentions of building back any other type of relationship with her H, b/c she is wayward. Being her BFF while she is rebelling against her MR, has no desirable attraction for her. It's just slipping on those old comfortable house shoes.

The sad thing is that the H has a completely different mindset about the whole friendship thing. Every time she wants something, he honestly tries to do what he believes he would do for a friend. Plus, his hope is this will lead them back together as a married couple. But once the H starts playing the role of BFF, it becomes a trap for him. When he gets tired of her always taking advantage and using him, he may try to get out of it. Guess what? She will pout or cry and say, "I thought you wanted to be my friend, but I see you I can't depend on you (or trust you)....yada, yada".

Having her OM as her romantic interest while her H plays BFF is the epitome of cake eating for the wayward wife.

This is just my opinion.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Everything about this is hard. I am guessing the hardest thing you have ever done in your life right?

I wouldn't admit to snooping. I would just say I don't think MC is a good idea right now while you are in contact with OM.

**When we communicate it has gone better lately and I am just very leery of doing anything to cause a negative conversation.**

Your being driven by fear. (I know I have been there) You are not the one in an A you should not worry about her reaction.

What are your boundaries? What will you tolerate or not tolerate from your wife?

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Listen to what Sandi says. She's playing you. Drop the rope, deploy the LRT and go DARK. With a WW, you've got to be firm. So long as she is W, you are not her H. The A has got to die before you have any shot are R the M. Until she shows genuine remorse, she is still a WW. Its at that point that the real work begins.

I would follow LH19's advice. Dont tell her you snooped but tell her you don't wish to continue MC so long as she is in contact with OM. She will lie and tell you she's not but you don't have to explain how you know. It is a waste of time and money to go to MC right now. You can't "nice" her back into the M. Spend this time working on you. Become the man she would be a fool to leave.


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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
And when I tell her that, I am sure she will say she isn't in an EA/PA. Do I admit to her then that I snooped her calls? Would that be a bad ting to admit? Or do I maybe ask to see her phone if she denies it and say nothing of the phone bill?

When we communicate it has gone better lately and I am just very leery of doing anything to cause a negative conversation.


Hello sjohns6,

Yes, this sounds like cake eating. No need to admit to the snooping because there is no upside in sharing that info with her.

What did you decide about MC?

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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OK - Looks like I just messed up myself and merged your newcomers thread in with your MLC thread.
Sorry about that.

Please keep posting on one thread until you get to 100 posts and it will be much easier to follow along.

Have you read all the links on all the homework threads?


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I haven't posted in a while but have been reading the forums for support from others situations as well as reading DR.

I'll start by thanking you guys for your responses. They help a lot. I agree with all of it and I did confront her regarding the texting and not wanting marriage counseling while she was carrying on with OM. She denied that she was texting the OM saying that it was her girlfriend from work she was texting. I didn't press the issue further as I am not certain of the numbers, but I am fairly certain that she lied. I explained to her that I didn't want to be her best friend. I told her that I wanted to be friends if it was within our M, but not just friends. I also explained that I would not be her secondary choice. I would not be man number 2. She wanted to continue counseling and work on things. It seems since then all of her texting has died down to nothing. She claims that she is not talking to OM and feels a little embarrassed that it happened, but she does still work with him.

It has now been a month and a half since that, and things have changed a little (or maybe a lot depending on how you look at it). Recently in counseling she said that she now realizes that she has been blaming for a lot of stuff that was not my fault and that she didn't realize it until she had some time away from the situation. She has also started spending a little more time around the house with the family. She has come over and made dinner and hung out a little. She is still distant, but does start conversations about random topics. It is hard because she seems so absent minded and foggy looking, but also seems to be trying to make things work.

A few days ago she dropped our D off at a mutual friends house for a play date. She has not talked to this friend much since this all started. He told me when I picked up D from his house that she told him that she had really effed things up between us and that she had been blaming for things that weren't my fault. She has not said these things directly to me or apologized for anything, although admitting these things at all seems like a positive change.

I have been trying not to snoop for my own peace of mind, but in the few times I do, I have not found any evidence that she is carrying on any nefarious activities at all. It looks like she goes to work, runs errands, and hangs out with the kids on her days with them...and with us on some of the other days. It looks kind of like she is trying to be better, but still a little foggy in the head...but maybe not AS foggy.

Her actions now make it difficult for me to know how to act around her. When she seems to be trying, I want to try and and am tempted to drop the DB type of behavior. Most of the time I stick to it...sometimes I slip and give a hug or tell her she is beautiful. It doesn't seem to send her running for the hills when I do it, but I still feel like I shouldn't have afterwards because I don't feel like she deserves that kind of treatment from me...I just get weak because I love her and I like to see that she is trying (or what I perceive to be trying).

One issue we have coming up is her apartment lease. Initially she moved out for a trial separation with ground rules. We agreed on no dating (she says she hasn't been), not open ended (initially a month but she could only find a 2 month apartment to sublease), both agreed that the point of separation was to work on the marriage and we would wear our wedding rings, defined a schedule with the kids, and a few other things that really aren't worth mentioning (regarding scheduling with the kids). It has been a month and a half since she got the apartment. That means that in the next 2 weeks she will either get another apartment or move home. We have not discussed what she is going to do yet, and I really don't want to press the issue. I think she needs to figure that out on her own. The issue with that is that we still share finances so if she makes a decision to get an apartment...that is something that affects us both financially. I am not sure how to feel if she decides she wants to come home. I mean she is showing signs of improvement, but she isn't out of the woods just yet. And a decision to come home is something for us both to decide...and I would think mainly MY decision to allow her too. Of course we have finances and kids to consider so if she really is making forward progress, maybe working on things while living together would be better in a sense? I'm just really not sure.

I really hate all of this, but I love her...or who she used to be and who she could potentially be again (or some form of). I know that she loves me somewhere in there...but right now it isn't the kinds of love that I need (or at least what she is showing me right now).

I'll stop for now as to not ramble on, but any advice or well wishing would definitely be appreciated. I guess I should add a little about me. I've recently started piano lessons, got in to great shape, and just got a new job that pays a bit more money. I am working on myself quite a bit...but I forget to mention those things because that's not what brings me to the forums.

Thanks to all of you!!!


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Glad you found your thread - its all now here.

Keep posting here on one thread till you get to 100 posts.

It sounds like you have started to get the hang of this.

Keep at it, no one said it would be easy.


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Thanks Cadet. I'll keep posting. You are right about that...no one said it would be easy and it certainly isn't. Feel like the death of a loved one...except they are still right there. I'm strong so I know I'll make it through. I'm just anxious to get back to something that seems more like myself. I'm getting there but the road has been longer than I thought, even though everyone said it would be and it really hasn't been THAT long compared to others.


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I wanted to add a few things mentioned in our MC session last week that might be pertinent. I mentioned above that she said that she had been blaming me for things that now that she has had some time away that she realized were not my fault. She also said that she had 101 reasons that she wanted to make things work between us. I replied by asking if any of those things had anything to do with me because I could think of a bunch of reasons to ie: finances, missing the kids, not liking her apartment, etc. She said yes, they do include me. I followed up by asking if she had any desire to be with me at all. She said Of Course I do. I said that she couldn't say of course because she didn't show it.

I realize that during the MC session that I was having a hard time listening and understanding what she was saying as I wanted to say my own thing. I brought up how in the past months she has told me that maybe we weren't compatible, that I might be happier with someone else, that we got together too young, and that she couldn't be the loving wife I needed her to be. The counselor asked if she wanted to reply to that and she said that she said those things when she was really unhappy. She seemed to imply that she didn't feel that way, but she didn't actually say that. She looked a little ashamed about it, but hard to say for sure as it was more of a look than what she said.

I guess I wonder if her saying that she was blaming me for stuff that wasn't my fault, saying that she messed everything up, saying that there are many reasons to work things out (including me), and that she does have a desire to be with me...paired with small acts of spending more time around...even if it is still a little distant and awkward, are good signs. I feel like I need to get a handle on where we are since we have her housing situation to consider in the next couple of weeks. Either she is moving back home or finding a new apartment.


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Wife came over last night and made dinner and hung out with the family again. The kids don't really like to spend the night at her apartment, and I think she is starting to realize that it isn't good for them. She might also be trying to spend a little more time at home to get used to being around again...but it may just be that she wants to spend time with them and doesn't want to make them go to the apartment when they don't want to (or maybe a little of both). Hard to say for sure. I wouldn't be trying to figure out intent right now if it wasn't for the timeline of her apartment lease (mentioned above). I find myself trying to see if we are at a point to where she could move back in and we could work on things.

I am also starting to realize that some of the awkwardness that exists between us when we are together is my own thoughts/feelings. They (my thoughts and feelings) are well deserved due to the circumstances of our relationship and her midlife crisis, but I also realize that they may not be warranted in the specific situations that I am deeming awkward. For example, when at the house she might sit there and play on her phone for 10 to 15 minutes. That triggers me to think, what is she doing, who is she texting, and I feel anxious about it. I realize that before all this mess started, I wouldn't think anything at all about her playing on her phone. I also realize that her playing on her phone doesn't mean anything. I think I have a bit to work on myself before we can work all this stuff out...regardless of where she's at mentally right now. I am just trying to figure out if my triggers are holding me back from recognizing whether or not she might be making a serious efforts to make things better. She has not come to me remorsefully yet to say that she is sorry and whatnot, but I feel that she might be close to that and some of her actions seem to suggest that she does have regret.

I've read somewhere on these forums, or maybe in one of the books, that the spouse is the last thing they come around on. I don't want to try and put timelines on things or rush us to a place that we aren't ready to be at yet...but I do need to know if her moving home right now would push us back with the progress we have made so far. Somewhere in the next week or so this is going to come up and I really want to be prepared for it.


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Reconnection goes - things - animals - children - us.

We are last.

So I agree stop reading too much into anything that is happening - lower your expectations, and my feeling is not to let her back into the house until you have a real marriage again.


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Have you read the thread on reconnection? If not, here's the link:

TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection (new)

This thread may answer some of your questions/concerns. I agree w/the advice that Cadet has given you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks for the advice.

Such a hard thing to judge since she didn't really seem to lose her connection with the pets and kids. I mean I guess by moving out she is putting her needs in front of theirs, but she has stayed very active with them trying to spend time with them and keep up with their schedules. The only obvious connection that seems to be lost is the one with me.

As far as letting her back in when we have a real marriage again, how do I judge that? I mean I realize that there will be a lot of work involved in restoring our marriage back to what it was (or something similar) and that it won't happen over night. If she is not displaying replay behavior and seems to be trying to stay present within the family and stop the activity that was hurting our relationship before, as well as going to counseling, and admitting to blaming me for things that weren't my fault, at what point to I consider her behavior a real marriage? I mean considering that restoring will take a while and although still a little awkward, maybe trying to be better.

To clarify, I am not trying to get you to say that she should move back in and we are in a good spot, I'm really just trying to figure out what it will mean to have a real marriage again given that it will take time to fix things. What benchmarks should I be looking for?

As always, thank you for talking me through this. It helps so much talking with people who actually know about this stuff.


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Thanks job. Not sure if I've read it, but I'll read it now...


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I think I may have read that early on, but it wasn't pertinent to me then. Thanks for the link. That did help. Not sure if I know how to handle my situation, but it helped with some questions.

Her apartment has been killing us financially and its hard to know how we could continue to live like this. Whether she is better yet or not, we are working on things so we don't have any plans currently to split finances. Not sure if that really matters as a dollar is a dollar whether it comes from one account or another, but it does make it harder to tell her no if she wants to move back. To clarify on that, she has not asked to move back yet...but that is a discussion that will come up in the coming weeks and her moving back is one of 2 options she can consider.

Guess I have things to think about...


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I went back and read the 6 stages of MLC to get a better feel for the explanation in the link you sent since it references them. I think that maybe my wife is in the withdrawal stage. I am not sure that she is towards the end of it, which is where that link suggests that true connection will begin. Still not sure if her coming home now (or in 2 weeks rather) is a good idea. I want us to have the space we need to get to the place we need to be at, but the finances complicate everything.

I think for now I'll just keep trying to live each day and focus on what I can continue to do to better myself and spend time with the the kids. I'll deal with the apartment thing when it presents itself. Like I said, I just wanted to be prepared for that conversation as I know its coming, but I think I feel a little more prepped for it now. I think that's all I can ask for right now.


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Keep the focus on you and living your life to the fullest. Leave a light on in the window and the door ajar and if she does make overtures to want to step over that threshold, then be patient and don't rush the process. She will need to do the hard and necessary work to gain your trust once again.

Dig deeper for patience and keep those expectations at zero.


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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
I think that maybe my wife is in the withdrawal stage.

I hate to tell you this but 7 or 8 years ago I wrote the same thing you wrote above.
I was absolutely positive of this.


I was totally wrong.
If she was in withdrawal phase then it did not stop her from divorcing me and running away.
Please take care of yourself and do not worry about what stage she is in.

My .02


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Thanks job, I think you are right and that's all I can really do for now.

And thanks for your comment too, cadet...as much as I don't like hearing that smile

To clarify, I do not feel positive about her being in the withdrawal stage, and I don't necessarily feel like I want to try and pin her down to a timeline or MLC stage. I am more or less trying to determine how I will respond when she either wants to get a new place OR wants to come home. One of those is inevitable. She might need to get a new place, and I think that wouldn't be horrible if we can afford it if it. What I am not sure about is if she wants to come home (for any reason), if that is the right decision or not. That is more or less why I was trying to figure out where I thought she might be mentally. She is definitely showing more positive behavior than a month ago. She has never asked for or discussed divorce. From the beginning of this thing she never said she wanted a divorce. She said she wasn't sure what she wanted at first (regarding R). Now she says that she wants to make it work, but I think she is still foggy and a little selfish right now trying to figure herself out...but not as much as even a month ago.

I have been pretty good at detaching and doing my own things to better myself and make ME happy, but this apartment timeline approaching has started to get me a little anxious about where we are with things. I realize that isn't a productive thing to think about, but you know it can be hard to put that stuff aside sometimes.

I'm going to work at keeping zero expectations and doing what you said job, keeping the light on and the door ajar but living my life to the fullest. Some days thats a piece of cake...other days I have to work on it. The days I have to work on it are getting easier, though...so thats good.


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Wife just texted me that her grandpa is in the hospital not doing well. He is the last living grandparent between the 2 of us. I find myself wondering how this will affect her in her current state. I know that deaths of family members can trigger MLC in some, but how does it affect someone already in it? That's probably a selfish question and not what I should be thinking about, but I can't help but wonder. I love him too and hope he does ok.


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MY Xh Mom died a few years back

His sisters were able to get him the message

when he visited them one year, I asked his sister how XH handled his mothers death
she said it was strange because he never acknowledged it or talked about her
or attended any services

Ive heard sometimes tragedy can wake them up but Ive also heard if they haven't finished all the way through the tunnel they will again Relapse

unfortunately no easy out of this mess but thru it for all
peace


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Thanks peace. Yeah, one way through it seems to be the case. I'm going to keep on keeping on since that seems to be the only thing to do.

Hope you are doing well.


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Been a rough week, but also a good one (if that's even possible).

So, last week when W brought the kids home, D came in and said mommy is moving home! Obviously that is not how something like that should have come about. I didn't say anything to W right then (she didn't hear D say that) because we have MC the next day. She did bring it up then, but it just seemed like the moment was lost since we didn't get to have a discussion before bringing the kids in to it. I realize what happened, but it doesn't matter for the sake of it needing to be a discussion between us.

She had decided that she wanted to move back and to discuss it during MC. The night before daughter was asking if she was going to move home or get a new apartment, and knowing how D felt she told her she was moving home.

We did discuss it during MC and after. She wants to move home cause she misses the kids and wants to try to work on M again, but not necessarily because her feelings have returned. I realize this is not good, but I am kind of stuck as to what to do about it. I THINK I can make it work, but I realize it will be more difficult than if she had a little more time in her apartment.

What makes it more complicated is that she seems to be starting to reconnect with other things. She has started spending a little more time with family, I've seen her pick up and play with the cats, and a few other small things not worth mentioning, but small steps. She also said in MC that she feels like I haven't been myself with her. I admitted to being guarded around her as to try and give her space. She explained that she didn't want that and wanted me to be open with her and be myself.

I do not think she is better, but she seems to be making the kind of progress that this site seems to suggest is in the right direction. Because of that, it just seems like a bad time for her to move home as she might be not too far off from actually wanting to try and reconnect. No idea on the timeline of something like that, but we at least seem to be moving in that direction.

She says so many mixed things that it is hard to judge intention. I know I shouldn't really even try that since I can't believe anything she says and only half of what she does, but her moving back has me trying to figure out where her head is at so I know how to respond. She says she wants to make it work. She says I am an amazing person. She says she wants to reconnect with family and fix things.

For now I am going to see how things play out. She's going to move back in. If I don't like how its going, I'll deal with that then. I guess 1 decision isn't going to break tings any more than they are. I can see how it goes and if I don't like it, then I don't like it. I can deal with it then...pretty sure I got this...even though I don't feel like that all the time.

More or less I am just journaling...but if anyone wants to offer a supporting voice or any advice, it is always welcomed.


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sjohns

Just took a bit to read your sitch .... thought I would chime in a little bit here.

Your thread does seem to have a common theme of you placing or attempting to place where/what stage your W is in with regards to MLC. From my perspective and you can take this for what it is .... the good ol 2x4 .... she is definitely in the Cake Eating Stage. This stage is not one of the 6 because it is alot like Cake Frosting and covers the entire thing if the LBS allows it.

To briefly summarize .... she starts working out ... happy hours with co-workers... helps a 'friend' who is going through D himself .. comes home at 4 ... Yeah, the flags here are hard to ignore. So you separate and she gets a little taste of solo life, misses the kids .... key term kids ... and decided to move back in and has your D inform you rather than to sit down and have a conversation with you.

My man .... you need some boundaries and like yesterday or this will unravel with a quickness.

As far as the MC goes .... I will tell you what my MC told me when I was precisely in your shoes (OM in the shadows) ..... MC will never work with 3 people. I get you are not sure if he is in nor out ... but you need to know this and its HER job to prove that to you.

What happens when she moves back in ... will you allow the happy hours and disrespect to you, the family and the marriage as she freely comes and goes as she pleases ... do you want an open marriage? These are Non-negotiables you need to lay down prior to her moving back in. And I know .. feels like if you make a stand she will get upset and do what ... leave you... to late she already did that. She may not like it but she will respect the fact you finally stood up for yourself.


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Took a hiatus for a bit. Sometimes reading the forums is very helpful, but other times it makes it harder to read the pain so many are going through.

To start, thank you CaliGuy for your response above. You are/were totally right. Good advice.

To catch up from where I left off, my W has been living at home again since July (4 months ago when I write this). That is also when I got a new job. We stopped going to MC at the time she moved back. The up and down has been pretty rough, but a different kind of rough than before. The cycling is hard because sometimes things seem almost normal which makes me want to let me guard down, but then back to LaLa Land. I know that the MLC fog lies and I shouldn't believe the things she says, but that is difficult sometimes. Here is a quick timeline of the last few months:

When she first came back she was still pretty cold and distant with me, but she said she wanted to try and work things out. Said she had a million reasons to make things work. She stopped going out so much and was done with her EA (I'm sure of it, not being naive), but she seemed to be depressed. I tried taking her out on dates as she mentioned that being something lacking in our R, but she seemed to accept reluctantly and was a little distant while we were out. I tried sending her flowers and she seemed to appreciate it, but it didn't help anything. We continued to have sex, and I thought she was in to it, but now I think that she was either faking it or isn't in to it anymore. To clarify, I wasn't trying to chase her...I was trying to work on the marriage because I thought that's what she wanted. I wasn't bgging or pleading, just trying to be a good husband and work on what I thought she needed. I believe that was an error in judgement now. She was not ready.

I have moved to detaching (or acting like it at least). We are now getting along almost normally since I have started leaving her alone, but I am human and occasionally I instigate some kind of R conversation. In the last couple of months she has stopped wearing her wedding ring because she says it feels like a symbol of possession, stopped all intimacy because she says it feels like an obligation, and even told me at one point that she didn't want to be married. She also says that she wants to work things out...and if I leave her alone we get along ok.

I guess I am here now to ask, how to you detach? I mean I know what it means and I know how to "act" like it...but mentally, how do you actually do that. I feel like I need to GAL and detach, but it is hard to WANT to GAL or know how if mentally you can't detach. I analyse her every move. I see her making personal progress in the things she does, even though she is still cycling through behaviors. The bad isn't as bad anymore...but that is my point. I feel like I shouldn't be noticing all that stuff right now. She does something positive and it makes me happy...then she cycles down and it depresses me because I thought we were making progress. She IS making progress, but I need to detach from all that for now to help regain my man card. I swear I had one before...and I feel so close to being able to do it but can't quite get there. Some days its like a light bulb moment and I feel like I finally am detached...but those moments are short lived. Any advice on the mental gymnastics needed to detach would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the rambling. Thank you all for all of your posts. They help more than you know!


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alanon is a great program
main teaching is to detach from the alcoholic
very similar to DB and its free
in person meetings are everywhere..I find it super helpful in all my relationships

I don't live with a MLCER but some things I do to detach

focus on self
create gratitude list of my life
allow others to make their choices and mistakes
don't give advice unless asked
let go let go listen to tapes on letting go
find activities just for you or with kids
keep neutral if she is unavailable and make plans without her
practice in your mind letting go of her, when you think of her project good like she will work through it eventually
either the r will work or not but for now create peace for sake of kids

read
Ha who thread as she lives with MLCer

good luck


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I don't know if you've read the thread on detachment, but there is a section on this thread that may help you. Here is the link:

Detachment


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thank you Peace...that list will help! I found yesterday that I felt better just typing out my comment in this thread. I forgot that journalling helps. Several of those things I am already doing, but it is getting my mind in to it that can be tricky. I'm getting better. The support and advice helps!

And thank you too, Job. I have read the forum/comments on detachment you linked. I feel like I understand what needs to be done in order to achieve it, its just difficult to put my mind in to it. I find myself going through the motions of detachment, but in my head I'm still thinking and cycling through thoughts that I know don't reflect actual detachment. I'll re-read that post again. It does help for perspective and I feel like I pick up something new every time I re-read posts on this site. Its like some parts don't really register when I read them until they are pertinent to my situation.

Feeling better today...working on making that the norm...


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Sjohn6,

There are detachment pros around here. I have been terrible at detaching but am getting better. Take baby steps. Try different things. Find what works. Here were my baby steps:

Spend more time physically apart (literally, give more space)

Find GAL activities where it is impossible to think (for me, this is the gym)

Do not initiate texts, calls, conversations, sex, anything

When falling asleep (my worst time for spinning), listen to music or a book


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2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
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Thanks Gordie. Baby steps seems to be the only way to go. I think that initiating things is my main problem. I have this fear that if I don't keep things going then what are we left with. I know better, and little by little I am letting go, but it's tricky. Of course when I initiate and the outcome is negative, it only seems to hurt me. I have been a lot better about that in the last week. I mean I've been getting better about it for longer than that, but I mean better as far as wrapping my head around it and detaching from the emotional side of it. I have to work to get there...but I've been getting there.

Luckily I've gotten better about going to sleep. I was having a hard time getting to sleep like you mentioned, but for whatever reason I seem better with that now. I think its because she hasn't been going out drinking till late hours and when I go to bed, she is already asleep. I think at that point, I feel a little peace because she is asleep so at that moment there isn't anything to deal with and I can let my guard down.

I just hope that as I get more used to detaching that I don't completely lose my desire to wait this thing out. That might actually be my biggest fear...that if I detach too much I'll stop wanting to make things work and be done with her. I don't really want that, but I understand that its a real possibility.


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If you are always initiating, then she has no reason to miss you or pursue you. Read distance and pursuit thread


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I was reading (re-reading actually) some posts by Sandi regarding wayward wives. In reading through the posts, I found myself wondering if my treatment should be different once there is not an EA/PA anymore. Sandi describes the mind of a wayward wife...and mine is one. She is a little more mild in the relay actions than some, but she definitely falls under the wayward category.

So, for now, my wife has ceased a lot of the crazy replay behavior she was doing. She stopped the EA in June (almost 6 months ago), she moved back home, stopped going out so much, began reconnecting with friends and family, and recently even began resuming chores around the house. She is cordial with me, sometimes almost normal, but often cold and distant still. She isn't mean to me or blow up at me about anything, but she is still distant and sometimes cold. Last Friday actually seemed almost normal. She initiated conversations, was engaging in family time (not just in the room), and even said a few nice things to me. It was the most normal I have seen her in some time. I don't say that because she was nice, but more because her body language and the look in her eye. I was able to see "her" again and it has been some time since I have seen anything but the MLC version of her. The next day she got a little cooler again followed by a return to what has been the norm. Again, she isn't specifically mean, just distant.

From what I have read around the interwebs, it seems to me that we are in limbo. The time between stages where things sit still. What I wonder about is Sandi's approach to waywardness. W has stopped her hard core replay antics and has started trying to reconnect with some things, but not with me. Is Sand's advice towards waywards still what I should be doing? To summarize my actions, I don't initiate calls, texts, emails, conversations (mostly...some are necessary), intimacy, give gifts, or invite on dates. When she she initiates conversations, I reply, but only lightly. What I am working on is not seeming mad/sad when I do this. Mostly I can...but sometimes it can be hard because the situation can be frustrating. Thats why I am working on detaching more (in my head, feel like physically I am doing it).

Just curious if as things progress, my actions should soften at all. If she acts normal, do I continue to be aloof or give in a little. I feel like all the advice I read causes me to walk a tightrope with all the behaviors I should and shouldn't do. I just want to do what is best and that is hard to pin down.

Sandi, if you're there (don't know how to link you if that is possible on this site), do you have any advice for the wayward who has begun to calm down a bit? Is the advice the same all the way through this situation?

Thanks to all for the advice and support from this site. I will continue to try and detach more and forgive me if I ask for reassurance on things that might have already been suggested to me. I don't really have any other friends to offer me the kind of advice I get here so I might need reassurance on the same issues from time to time...to make sure I'm doing the right thing.


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I would recommend that you treat her as a friend and/or roommate. Keep the expectations to a minimum and if she talks, you listen. You may even want to invite her to go out for a coffee once in a while. It doesn't hurt to "experiment" a bit and see what works and what doesn't work. Keep in mind, she is still processing and it will take some time for her to feel comfortable in her own skin. Also, whatever relationship you do create w/her...it must be a new one and old habits need to be tossed out. Dig deeper for patience and allow her to come to you when she's ready.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks, job.

I'll continue with the roommate treatment. What I have to learn to work on is the friend part. I think that's what I struggle with...and where my confusion regarding Sandi's advice comes in. Sandi makes it sound like being friends isn't really in our best interest as that is more for WAS, not wayward. She suggests tough love. Of course that advice seems more like beginning stage stuff. I struggle with it because when she is cold or distant towards me, its hard to want to be friendly back. And I know that it doesn't me be BFF's, just friendly. The counter advice (counter might be the wrong word here but hopefully you know what I mean) is to detach and move on so that she begins to realize that I am moving on. Its hard to work out in my head that being friendly will allow her to think I am moving on.

Yes, patience is something I continue to need to work on. Man...that is hard. Especially since it has been a year already. I know that is not long when compared to the overall process, but in real life, living with something like this for a year (and more to come) seems like forever. I am strong willed, but patience can be hard to have.

I admit to being surprised that you think that maybe asking her out to a coffee might be ok to try at this point. I like the idea, but you don't think that asking her to do something alone with me will cause her to pull back again? I do realize you said to experiment to see what works which indicates it might not, but you think that's a reasonable play at this point?

Thank you so much for your reply. It gave me a bit to think on!


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There is nothing wrong in saying "w, I'm going to such and such a place, would like to go along or can I bring something back for you?". Give her the option to say yes or no. If she says yes, then go and keep the conversation on generic things and not on the relationship. If she says no, go any way and enjoy your outing. It's her loss if she opts out.

It's better to give her the option because then it gives her the "control over her life" and not being forced to do something she doesn't want to do.

You won't know what works unless you experiment a bit. Dig deeper for patience.

Last edited by job; 12/12/17 09:25 AM.

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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks job. I'll give that a try when there is an opening (invite her to go with me for coffee or something). In the interim I will try to detach more emotionally, GAL, and dig for patience.


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Journalling, but any advice or comments are welcome.

Last night was hard. I think it was more hard due to being triggered than it was due to the actual events.

Yesterday was my W's friend's birthday. W was planning to go to happy hour with her for her birthday, but in the morning she was packing an overnight bag. Before I go on, I should mention that her friend DOES live on the other side of town which is about an hour away (without traffic). It was, however, just a Tuesday night. We have 2 middle school aged kids and jobs to go to. I said "you are packing an overnight bag? Its Tuesday, you should come home after if you can". She said "I'll see what I can do, but it is soandso". I said "yeah, but she isn't a teenager anymore". Not sure if that was a good thing to say or not, but that was pretty much the end of the conversation. As per normal these days, we did not text, email, or call the rest of the day. In the evening I picked up the kids from school, got s some dinner, and went home. She did not show. I did not get a cal, text, or email letting me know that she would indeed not be coming home.

This morning when I got up, I was worried and I did some snooping to see if I could tell whether she was still alive/not in jail. I have snooped a little recently and it always proves nothing other than she has plenty of communication with everyone but me. She seems to be done with destructive replay, but still indulges in selfish/insensitive behavior, but even that seems to be dwindling a bit. Main issues now are that she still doesn't seem to want to be with me. Sorry, got off topic...so when I snooped this morning (the phone bill to see if there was any activity), I saw 3 calls last night around 11:30. The first was very close to my number, but a couple digits off. The next 2 calls were my old work number. I haven't had that number in almost 6 months, but I'm sure she still has it in her phone. Basically it looks like she made some kind of attempt to call me, but I guess was to drunk to get it right? Very weird, but...she did attempt a call.

Then, shortly after I got a text from her saying that she had stayed at her friends house and that she would see me this evening. Several minutes later I replied with "ok". She then sent me 2 more texts asking if I wanted to go to my sisters on Friday and that my sister had gotten a new video game. I did not reply to that one. She does not know that I know that she tried to call last night (not that it matters, her attempts did not lead to an actual call).

This interaction has me confused on how to respond (not to the text, just in general when I see her) for several reasons. First, in the past I would have no problem with her going to a friends to celebrate their birthday...even if it ended up being an overnighter if she drank too much in celebration. Of course she wouldn't have done that mid week anyways, but if she had I would have been ok with it. I feel like this kind of thing has become a trigger for me since it mimics the behavior of when she was acting a lot more wild. Although maybe in bad taste to go get drunk mid week and stay at a friends when you have a family at home, but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that bad. I want to be able to not get so frantic when little things like this pop up. I am not condoning the behavior, just accepting that my internal reaction may not match the situation. I feel angry and disrespected.

Another issue I have is that I have been reading Amy's old posts and seeing that in order for W to eventually come out of MLC, she has to see me as a safe place and believe that I could forgive her. I know that replying to her in anger or being judgmental will not facilitate that. I know that she is not at a place right now where that matters completely, but I want to work on that being my perspective. To detach and let go while leaving the light on. To not care as much about her crazy antics while still maintaining the stability that will be needed if she is to eventually come out of it.

I'm a work in progress...


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S: I said "you are packing an overnight bag? Its Tuesday, you should come home after if you can". She said "I'll see what I can do, but it is soandso". I said "yeah, but she isn't a teenager anymore". Not sure if that was a good thing to say or not, but that was pretty much the end of the conversation.

G: I didn’t like how you handled this. She is a grown adult and does not need your permission to go out even if you don’t like it. Either (a) ignore it and don’t expect her back until the next day as it was obvious what was going to happen or (b) ask her directly—when will you be home (said without judgment, just matter of fact)?

S: As per normal these days, we did not text, email, or call the rest of the day. In the evening I picked up the kids from school, got s some dinner, and went home. She did not show. I did not get a cal, text, or email letting me know that she would indeed not be coming home.

G: you need to lower your expectations to zero.

S: This morning when I got up, I was worried and I did some snooping to see if I could tell whether she was still alive/not in jail.

G: this is really hard to do...but you’ve got to let go.

S: I have snooped a little recently and it always proves nothing other than she has plenty of communication with everyone but me. She seems to be done with destructive replay, but still indulges in selfish/insensitive behavior, but even that seems to be dwindling a bit. Main issues now are that she still doesn't seem to want to be with me. Sorry, got off topic...so when I snooped this morning (the phone bill to see if there was any activity), I saw 3 calls last night around 11:30. The first was very close to my number, but a couple digits off.

G: who dials actual numbers on a cell phone? Aren’t you a contact? Sounds like a call to someone else.

S: The next 2 calls were my old work number. I haven't had that number in almost 6 months, but I'm sure she still has it in her phone. Basically it looks like she made some kind of attempt to call me, but I guess was to drunk to get it right? Very weird, but...she did attempt a call.

G: or butt dialed. You have no idea.

S: Then, shortly after I got a text from her saying that she had stayed at her friends house and that she would see me this evening

G: do you believe her?

S: Several minutes later I replied with "ok". She then sent me 2 more texts asking if I wanted to go to my sisters on Friday and that my sister had gotten a new video game. I did not reply to that one.

G: so she goes out all night doing who knows what with whom...and now she is trying to make everything sound normal.

S: She does not know that I know that she tried to call last night (not that it matters, her attempts did not lead to an actual call).

G: you don’t know that either.

S: This interaction has me confused on how to respond (not to the text, just in general when I see her) for several reasons. First, in the past I would have no problem with her going to a friends to celebrate their birthday...even if it ended up being an overnighter if she drank too much in celebration. Of course she wouldn't have done that mid week anyways, but if she had I would have been ok with it. I feel like this kind of thing has become a trigger for me since it mimics the behavior of when she was acting a lot more wild. Although maybe in bad taste to go get drunk mid week and stay at a friends when you have a family at home, but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that bad. I want to be able to not get so frantic when little things like this pop up. I am not condoning the behavior, just accepting that my internal reaction may not match the situation. I feel angry and disrespected.

G: Trust your gut. Do you believe what she told you about where she was and with whom?

S: Another issue I have is that I have been reading Amy's old posts and seeing that in order for W to eventually come out of MLC, she has to see me as a safe place and believe that I could forgive her. I know that replying to her in anger or being judgmental will not facilitate that. I know that she is not at a place right now where that matters completely, but I want to work on that being my perspective. To detach and let go while leaving the light on. To not care as much about her crazy antics while still maintaining the stability that will be needed if she is to eventually come out of it.

G: this is hard. Some possible actions (not sure which is right for you):

1. Stranger. Total indifference to where she went and with whom. Don’t ask and if she brings it up, show little interest.

2. Friendly neighbor/roommate. Just ask, how was the party? Show a little interest. Don’t interrogate her.

3. Husband. You can say, I was really worried about you last night when I didn’t hear from you. I’m glad you are safe. I’m upset that you didn’t tell me where you were and that you decided to stay overnight when you said earlier in the day that you’d let me know.

Not sure where you are in your journey. But for me right now, I do #1.


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Thanks Gordie. I knew I didn't handle it correctly. I'm trying to get better.

The situation is a little worse than I described (from how I handled it I mean). The truth it, I did know where she was going and who she was going with. I was not worried about what she was actually doing. My issue is that this MLC situation has caused me to be possessive and controlling. Not as much in how I treat her (well, except with comments like I made to her in this situation), but in my head. I wasn't that way before, but I see that I am now. I don't feel like it is unjustified for me to be that way, but it isn't helpful or healthy. What I wanted was for her to show enough respect to communicate her plans with me. Not ask for permission, just let me know. Again, I recognize my issues and am working on it. Thank you for the direction...I need it!! And yes, I did believe her when she said she would see me tonight. She really hasn't lied to me throughout this. She may withold the truth sometimes, but doesn't actually tell me lies.

So in the evening when I got home she had just got home. We chatted a little but it was hard for me because of how I felt all day. She made a comment about how cute her friends kids were. I asked if she got to spend much time with them and she said a little. I followed up with, I wish you would have let me know that you were going to go ahead and stay the night. She said she figured I knew. I said that it was up in the air when she left and that I wasn't sure. I then changed the subject to something else. I didn't make a big issue of it but said my piece and moved on. Our communication the rest of the evening was ok.

Handling her now is hard because she shows so many signs of getting better. I know she is't there yet, but she isn't in an affair, seems to be actively trying to better herself, is improving the relationships between herself and others. She just isn't really working onus. I can still tell she is in MLC, but her behavior is improving. It makes it hard to drop the rope because I feel like that makes me the one being distant. I KNOW better, but it is still a delicate tightrope to walk. Keep hitting me with those 2x4's and I'll continue to get better.

Hope your day is going well, Gordie.


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Originally Posted By: sjohns6


Handling her now is hard ...


Hi Sjohn! I realize that you are just now trying to wrap your head around what to do and how to do it. We've all been where you are at some point...and sometimes return to that thinking. Gordie's advice is very good. But this ^ stood out to me. This is the root of your thinking that needs to change as you DB. You don't handle her. You handle you. You can't control her actions, only your actions and your reactions to her actions. It's difficult, but once it becomes a habit, you will hardly have to think about it.

She stays out all night? You show concern...she has your attention (bad or good) and is rewarded by...having your attention, caring, concern. What if you didn't "notice"? What if you only "noticed" her good behavior? And validated it? What if you ignored her when she did something you didn't like? Trust me, that bad behavior in MLC can get surprisingly worse. Practice not being affected by it now and you'll get pretty good at it after awhile (see HaWho's thread). It will make detaching easier. But validating the good behavior, thanking her for nice or considerate behavior, is important, too.

You've got this. Just remember not to "handle her". Handle "it" - the situation. And yourself.





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Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
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ciluzen,

You are definitely right, but I think "handling her" might have been more of a poor word choice on my part. I really do look at it more as handling myself around her. Maybe there is something to say about the fact that I chose those words, but overall, my thinking is more about how I handle myself around her, not handling her. I mainly just misspoke on that. It is something I need to remind myself of, though. Thank you for that!

I really like what you said about validating the good behavior. And now that you word it like that I want to kick myself because I actually have family members that are doctors in behavioral/brain science. I know all about validating good behavior instead of punishing bad as a means for behavior modification. I don't know why I haven't thought about that in this situation. I've applied in in other areas of my life. Not that I see it as my role to modify her behavior, but more as a way of looking at how I handle my side of interactions with her to promote and encourage the kind of change I'd like to see in our relationship. I mean we are still married and we do still interact so I do need to learn how to handle myself better. I would like to get to a point where it is more automatic, like you said, rather than being so much effort to control myself.

Thank you for your comments. That gives me a lot to chew on. I've got this...but its an ongoing effort.


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So she is not in her EA as far as you know but does she still want a D?


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Well, she never actually talked about divorce or said she wanted that. She did move out for a couple of months and then moved back in prematurely because she missed the kids and could barely afford the apartment she was in. She has also said that she wants space, feels empty inside, she has said that she needs to find herself, and she even said that she didn't want to be married. I haven't initiated any relationship talks recently, so those things are from a month or 2 ago, but then she also says (often in the same conversation) that she wants for things to work out and knows that there are many reasons why we should work it out. I think what she really means is that she wants to want to work it out.

Since moving home 5 months ago, she has calmed down quite a bit and seems to be working on herself. I think that's why this time seems tricky to me. When she was out being wild and living in an apartment and having an EA, although it was hard on me, it was easier to see it as MLC. Now she is back, working on herself and her behavior has calmed down. I also get to see her behave so normally around others, but she is still cold and distant with me (mostly). She does initiate conversations some, but it seems pretty forced on her part. I also see her get confused easy, forget things, have that foggy look in her eye, have trouble sleeping, and play on her phone for hours at a time. So...she isn't out of it yet but she wears it well for public facing.


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Another thing that I forgot to mention is that she has just started IC. She has only been to 1 session and I didn't pry about it. I know she went and she knows I know she went. I figure that if she wanted to talk about it she would.

It came about roughly a month ago. I can't remember what sparked the conversation, but I had had enough that day and was ready to walk. I believe it was something she said to me. At that point she scrambled and said do you think maybe we should try marriage counseling again before giving up. I told her that I didn't think MC would do much good at this point, but would she be up to seeing an IC instead. She seemed very receptive to that. On her own she sought one out (referral from the marriage counselor we had been seeing) and scheduled an appointment. That was 2 weeks ago. I believe her 2nd appointment is tonight. She hasn't mentioned to me that it is tonight, but I'm pretty sure it is. So...that's also a good thing, right? Man...I really need to work on zero expectations.


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Sounds like you are walking on eggshells. I have special eggshell shoes but they are really uncomfortable for long periods of time so I have taken them off. Are you calm and relaxed and confident and happy at home? How are the kids? What are your goals for yourself? I think being a better you is path to your own happiness and any potential attraction your w may have for you now or in the future.


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I do walk on eggshells. I don't like it and am trying not to.

Sometimes I am able to be calm and relaxed, but until I can completely detach I seem to cycle with her moods a little. Not always, but often. As far as confident, I don't know how to answer that. I was very a very confident man before this. Then my ego and confidence was destroyed with BD. I am way more confident than I was then, but not yet like before. Actually, now that you have me thinking about it...I think I still lack a lot of confidence. Confidence is something that I've always just had. How do you rebuild it? I think if I could rebuild confidence that the other things would be easier to fall in to place.


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Good to know you aren’t walking on eggshells. You are a better man than me.

Yes, definitely think about confidence and come back with an answer. BD totally deflates confidence. It’s rejection and abandonment and the one you love saying you aren’t good enough, you don’t satisfy me...

Rebuilding confidence is both critical to your own ego / future and is also a cornerstone of sexual attraction between men and women. Part of that confidence is knowing you have a bright future with or without w, confidence that this situation is temporary and will get to the other side, confidence that you are a good man and not all the bad things she said about you and/or you said about yourself.


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Gordie, you don't know how much you are helping me. I wish I would have had the strength to post more earlier on. I think if I had I'd be further along in my journey than I am now. I don't know that she would be, but I would be. Having you tell me some of the same stuff over in different ways is helping me to pound it in to my head. There is a difference in knowing what to do and KNOWING what to do...if you know what I mean wink

Its funny, I'll be telling myself stuff to try and talk down my own inner dialog. Then I'll have a light bulb moment where I GET it and feel relieved that I have a mental plan. When I repeat the light bulb idea back to myself, its the same thing verbally that I've been telling myself (and others telling me) all along. The difference is finally GETTING it.

And I see now that I've been looking at the dropping the rope thing and going dark as a thing that I am doing to her rather than a thing I am doing for myself. I keep trying to do all the right things for all the wrong reasons.

I'm going to really sink my teeth in to this confidence rebuilding thing. I think that is key. It will help me get back to me, change my thinking, and might even rebuild some interest in me from her perspective...although that last one isn't really why I want to do it. I hope that happens, but I really want ME back right now.

Once I have a better answer for the confidence thing I'll get back to you.

And to clarify from earlier, I actually said that I AM walking on eggshells, but don't want to. I am better at not doing it as much now than I was, but I still do it. Its almost impossible not to a little because my natural inclination when around her is to speak my mind. I can't really do that right now because some of the things I want to say that would originally be ok to say might set her back due to her messed up MLC thinking. To me, monitoring my speech and actions to accommodate her delicate emotional state is walking on eggshells. I'm trying to do it less because walking on eggshells is a low confidence move, although there is a fine line between that and just monitoring your speech because no one should say everything they think out of sheer respect for their fellow human being. I'm trying to find that line between general respect and enabling cake eating.


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I have gotten so much help here so glad to give back in some way. You know what takes a lot of confidence? Knowing that you’re life isn’t over because of your situation. Knowing that you have value in and of yourself. Knowing that you can be a kick a dad, even if you wind up being a single parent. Brag to yourself. Brag to us! What makes you great? You seem like a humble guy, but tell us what makes you...awesome? Okay, if it’s too embarsssing to write here write it down for yourself.

Cali told me to be a list maker. Here’s an idea. Write the 10 things you most admire in other men. Rate yourself against that list. Pat yourself on the back for where you rank highly. Work on the things you rank lowly. Re rate yourself on once a month or once a quarter. Celebrate your successes. Become the person you want to be.


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I've been lurking since my last post. Sometimes I'm not sure how I feel so not sure what to write. With it being holiday time, it has been tough for me emotionally so I thought I would journal a little.

First, thank you for your last post, Gordie. I am trying to get back to the me that I like being and your advice has helped. Right now I am finding it particularly difficult to remain happy due to the circumstances at home...which is so confusing because they aren't bad, per se.

During the holidays, W's family comes to town from California and stays with us a lot. Because of that, in the build up to Christmas/new years, we are surrounded by family and friends...even at home. I was not prepared for that to be hard on me. I think it is because when there are people around, W acts normal. She isn't 100% normal towards me, but more so than previously. It is hard for me to see her act so normal when I know the second everyone leaves she will go back to being cold and distant. I want to laugh and have fun and joke around with everyone like everything is normal (like she is doing), but it is hard to ACT happy for a length of time. I'm trying anyways, and a little happy sneaks in here and there, but it is short lived. I almost find it easier for her being cold and distant because then I am able to see things more clearly for what they are. I know she isn't feeling normal. She spent the last year treating us like crap...you can't just go back to normal after that. She does say she wants things to work out, but any time we have a conv about things I get to see how messed up her thinking is, despite her saying she wants it to work out.

Then there is my birthday to consider. I turn 40 tomorrow. My W was going to plan me a party, but it never really happened and my family has been calling wanting to know what was going on because they hadn't heard from W about the plans (she had been talking to them about it). So, I took over and planned a small dinner with my family. It just feels so awkward to take the planning of my 40th bday from her to schedule myself. Might have been different if I had been planning it from the start, but apparently she was going to plan a big surprise party for me. Not sure why I thought she might be capable of that...guess I got sucked in to her acting normal for a bit and thought she could do it. It seems that she is now planning a "big" party for me several weeks from now...which I don't understand. My bday is on the first day of a 3 day weekend for a change and family is still in town. 2 weeks from now will not be a 3 day weekend, will not be my bday, and family will be back out of town.

Again, think its just hard right now because in person she is acting normal, but its just too hard for me not to see all that is wrong still...despite the appearance of normalcy. I think another thing that is getting to me is how I know family must be perceiving her. Although they know she was going through something previously (moved out, EA, depression, etc), right now she is functioning normally around them. They most likely think things are better. I imagine that I am the one that seems depressed...or at very least not my normal jovial self.

ugh...ready for this year to be over!!


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I'm going to wish you an early Happy Birthday!

No, she's not fully baked yet and still has difficulty planning things. Yes, they talk about what they are going to do and, yet, can't follow through. She's still depressed and her actions indicate it.

As for family...your w is wearing a mask and it takes a lot of energy to wear masks around others for any length of time.

I say...have fun and enjoy your birthday dinner.

BTW, I suggest that you not initiate any conversations about things, i.e., relationship, etc. for a while. She's not capable of listening and moving forward and working on things just yet. Just leave her be in the MLC oven a while longer.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I had a long respond that got lost. Short version:

It’s okay not to know how you feel or feel contradictory things or change your mind on things. It’s all normal given your circumstances. Feel everything and process it and express it—let it out.

Happy Birthday! Yours was a tricky situation but have no expectations of your w. If she acts normal. Ok. If she is cold. Ok. If she doesn’t show up. Ok. You get the point. Just take care of you and let her do her own thing.


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Happy Birthday!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Many Happy Returns to you!

Try not to worry about what she has or hasn't done for you. But do make some nice plans for yourself and treat yourself to something nice for your milestone birthday. Allow family and friends to spoil you a little too.

Happy New Year to you smile


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Thank you for the birthday wishes. My birthday actually went well so I stayed off the boards to try and soak it in.

Job, I think you are right about not initiating any R talks right now. I've been avoiding them anyways, but one still manages to slip in every 2 to 3 weeks. It is getting easier though because I kind of feel like my "vision" is clearing a little. I am starting to view her as she is, a person suffering from MLC. I am starting to see the things she does as behavior from MLC instead of what she is doing against me. Seeing it that way makes it easier not to force talks. I only forced them before because I needed them. Not needing them as much is key. I also understand what you mean about wearing masks. I feel like she wore a mask for about 2 weeks straight around her family. That must have been exhausting. Glad I don't have to do that.

Gordie, I appreciate that. I feel like I change my mind constantly as to what I think I want out of this. Just trying to keep what rings true and discard everything else. Birthday went well, I'll summarize below.

Sotto, thanks for the advice. I tried not to have expectations of W, but she was planning the party...at very least I expected that she would continue to do that. After I took over things seemed to work out. After taking over I lowered myself to 0 expectations.

On my birthday I woke up to W initiating intimacy. She has not initiated anything in quite some time, and it was my bday...so I just enjoyed the moment. Then, we had a nice morning with the family and she treated me normally, like it used to be. We all went and saw a movie together and then went to her brothers house to hang out with some family that was still in town before going to my dinner. That went well and then we went to dinner. Dinner was fun and W interacted well with everyone and we had a good time. Then we went back to my sisters and hung out until we all got tired and went home. It was a nice and normal day which I really needed. I tried not to have any expectations regarding the day OR that it would carry over to the next. I just wanted to enjoy THAT day...and I did.

The next day W's family left to travel back home and it was New Years eve. We went to a friends house to have game night with them through the new year (have done this several years in a row). It was fun, but I felt like I could see W's mood slipping again. I fully expected it so it didn't really bother me. She got sick over night (probably from the crappy food and drink we had) so the next day she was pretty quiet. It could have been from getting sick OR depression creeping back in (or both). She was not too cold and distant, but down from how she was the previous week.

I know I shouldn't have too many expectations, but right now I expect that when I get home today she will be more quiet and distant. Maybe not, but it helps to foresee that cycle so that I can distance myself. How she is right now is pretty difficult to judge how to be with her. Just trying to take it all in stride for now and feel it out.

Happy New Years to you guys!! I am so glad I found you and for the support you have given me!!


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I have a question I've been wondering about, or more or less wanted to get input from you guys.

Initially at BD, W claimed that we had grown apart and didn't do enough stuff together. I didn't take her out enough. I fully recognize that, even if true, is no reason to behave the way she did and has been. I feel like we had a good relationship but just got caught up in every day life that we let our closeness slip a little. So, there is a kernel of truth to it, but she is grasping at straws, in my opinion. Even still, early on (before I understood MLC behavior) I tried to address the issues. I tried asking her on more dates, buying her flowers, telling her I loved her, etc. I did a lot of that before, but maybe not as much as she needed. Since then I have all but stopped that kind of stuff based on what I have read here and on other sites about dealing with MLC. I see the wisdom in it. Now we operate more like roomates. If I don't push, we get along ok.

When we occasionally have R talks (haven't had one in a few weeks) and I express my desire for us to be closer and not to want to live in a loveless marriage, she brings up that I don't ever ask her to do anything. I express that is because when I have asked her to do things, she never seems to want to and is just cold and distant while we are out. I tell her that I would love to go do something with her, but she doesn't act like she wants to do anything with me so why would I ask her out on a date. That dates are for people who want to be together and enjoy time with each other. She doesn't really reply to that.

So my question is, should I actually be asking her out on dates or is she just MLC'ing on me? She was in an EA, but that ended about 6 months ago. She had moved out for 2 months, but moved home about 6 months ago. She is still going through issues, but her behavior now is mainly just being cold/distant. She also stays out of the house a lot, but she spends that time shopping and playing sports. She is more or less nice when we talk, but she is still up and down with depression. I THINK I still just need to wait and let things play out and do my own thing, but I also don't want to NOT ask her out if I should be in order to work on things. I mean, based on her complaints, me asking her out would be a 180...but only if that was a legit issue. I suspect that although there may be SOME truth to it, it is more grasping at straws to justify behavior and that I need to continue on as is.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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Best advice is just to mirror her behavior. If she asks you out and you want to go, accept (but not always). If she asks you out a few times in a row, try asking her out once. Keep in mind that anything and everything is pressure to these people and what they seem to want is not often what they can handle.

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Sjohn6,

This is tricky and it sure I have great advice for you. Some reflections on your situation:

Back at your first post and the kiss with the coworker, EA and maybe more but you don’t know. Separation and then return to home. She is generally nice to you and you guys still have sex some times but things are not back to normal. I feel this is where I was about a year ago.

You say this is not the M you want. She says you don’t ask her out on dates. What does your IC or MC or DB coach say? You say you have prettty frequent R talks. Has she said what she wants: M or D or is it uncertain?

D b philosophy is to do what works and stop doing what doesn’t. Does distancing draw her closer to you? Does asking her out on dates do so?

Don’t initiate a R talk but figure out what you would say when it comes up again so you can be unemotional and succinct. What do you want? What is in your control? What would need to happen to get there? What would she have to do? Have you ever fully dealt with the infidelity or was it swept under the rug?


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Thanks Gordie and Ownit. That gives me a lot to chew on.

Ownit-Your last line really made me think. What they want is often more than they can handle. I never really thought about it like that, but it seems to be very much the case. Helps to realize that just because she thinks she may want it, in reality it might be more than she can handle.

Gordie, you really touched on something that has been bugging me that I haven't really fully verbalized. That is regarding the infidelity. I do feel like it although it has been very lightly discussed, it has mainly been brushed under the rug. But to follow up on some of your other points...

-First, I don't have an IC and I only called a DB coach once. I probably really need to follow up with that for my own sanity. R talks have died down as my depression with the situation has lifted a bit. Before I HAD to talk about stuff every 2 to 3 weeks so I wouldn't have a meltdown. My emotional state is much better now so I don't feel the need to pressure her in to talks about things. I've come to realize that I don't really like what she says anyways. All they do is show me how twisted her view on things is. Not just the R, but just life in general. Her thinking is a bit twisted on how she interprets many things right now...regardless of how normal she acts at times. So, I think not initiating R talks is going to be much easier going forward.

-I am not sure about how distancing affects her. I admit that I might not be doing it right. I feel like not calling, emailing, texting, or initiating conversations is distancing. I feel like trying to allow her space within the house without trying to get her to engage with the family is distancing. The issue I think is my mindset for doing it. I am normally (before all this) light hearted and jovial. Making jokes and whatnot. When "distancing" I imagine I seem quiet and detached. I think she views this as unhappy and judgmental. Hard to say for sure. I am trying to be more "normal" with my distancing, and when I am successful she seems more "present" with me and even nice. I wouldn't say loving, but not as cold and distant. I have not been asking her on dates recently because when I did it before it did not seem to draw her in. So in that sense, I stopped what seemed like wasn't working, despite what she said. What I am unsure of is when or if that should change on my part (Iie: if she says she wanted/wants that when DO I start that?)

-I will work on figuring out EXACTLY what I want and what I think it will take to get there...from her and myself. I feel like I have an idea of that in my head already, but I think I need to work that out a little more.

-As for the infidelity piece, that bothers me. I do believe that it was only EA and nothing more. She has expressed regret and has said she was sorry, but that seemed very difficult for her to say. It also seems to me that she is expressing regret for her decisions, but not as much remorse towards me for the betrayal. I think that is key. Because of that, it seems more like it was kind of swept under the run. Like she is TRYING to just go back to normal without much acknowledgement of what we just went through. But things AREN'T normal. I recently looked through some pictures of us in previous years and was reminded how happy she used to LOOK. She still smiles, but the happiness doesn't seem to touch her eyes these days. Its like she is wearing a happy mask. I know that I don't want things as they are, and I won't consider us better until there is some kind of reckoning. I don't need her to grovel at my feet and I don't want to hold it over her head for the remainder of our relationship, but it does need to be fully addressed before there is any chance of us moving forward.

Sadly, she has never initiated any kind of R talk...which is why I have at the intervals I have. I am worried that if I stop, she never will and will try to move on like nothing happened. I do not see that as something that will last. It is always possible that if I give her enough time without initiating my own R talk that she would eventually. I think the longest I've gone so far is about a month and she didn't initiate anything in that time. I do realize that it is pointless when I initiate because it doesn't really go anywhere.

What would you consider frequent R talks...any at all? Just curious. I'm going to try not to initiate any more at all, but curious what might be considered frequent.

Thank you so much for helping me figure this thing out (as much as it can be anyways).


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I had to take some time off the boards. When things seem to be ok at home, it seems to be a little easier not to read up on all the horrible things happening to us. I kind of feel selfish in that regard and I am sorry for that. I know everyone here needs support, and I know I can help with that...even if only a little here and there.

So, I am back because I feel like I need to journal a little.

To catch up from my last post, things have been going well lately. Oh we aren't all better or anything, but she seems to be trying to make things work so home life has been ok. The problem is, and I saw it coming this time, is that she is still cycling up and down. I'm trying not to start any R talks, but occasionally conversations get close to something of depth and I get to see how twisted her thinking still is...despite her attempts to play nice and wear her happy mask. Its so hard to read because she doesn't have an OM, she isn't living elsewhere, and she isn't going out partying all the time. This is what she was doing at the beginning of replay, so when that stopped I felt that she was transitioning to another stage. I now feel that her replay behavior has just shifted to other things.

She still doesn't wear a wedding ring because she feels like she would just be wearing it because I want her to because I don't trust her and am jealous. She tells her friends and family that she loves them, but never to me. Not even to reciprocate when I do (not that I am doing that anymore, but every once in a while). She will say she loves me if we have a R talk, but those are getting fewer and further between. She suggests that I don't ever ask her on dates which is why we don't spend time together, but when I do she reschedules till we just don't go out. She schedules all kinds of things for herself and does not invite me (bike rides, museum events with her brothers, etc). She also does little things for me which keep me confused. She will bring me coffee in the morning or ask me if I want a glass of wine in the evening. Nothing big, but slightly caring.

I say all this to express that although I didn't see it before, I am now realizing that her replay actions have just gotten a little more mild...but I think that's still where she is. I don't think hers is linear though. I think she is experiencing overlapping stages back and forth.

Its just hard because things seemed to be going well, but the last day or so seems to have caught her on a down cycle. I wish I could just detach more. Her moods aren't affecting me as much, but I do often think about leaving. I don't think I can, but i often think it might be good for me. I just don't want to live in a loveless marriage and I don't think I can get passed this without her being remorseful towards me...and that isn't happening right now. I have always seen my future with her in it and us growing old and happy together. As the days go by, that is becoming harder and herder for me to envision. I feel like I have to talk myself in to getting a grasp on things every single day. It is so hard to distract myself.

I don't want to cycle with her anymore but I just can't quite detach. I guess I am better than I was a few months ago, but I am so tired of feeling like this!!


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SJohn,

I feel like the least qualified person to be doling our advice. But let me say you are not alone. You are now unhappily married. What can you do about it? What can you control? What can you change about you? About the situation? What makes things better? What make things worse? Go back to basics. Start with a beginner’s mind. What do you choose to do today?

You say you are thinking of leaving. Why/what is your goal? Where would you go? What about the kids?

She said she doesn’t want dates so listen to her. She’s still telling you to back off...way off.

One day at a time. Thinking of the future is too much right now.


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Thanks Gordie. I know how you feel about not feeling qualified to give advice, but I'm glad you do it anyways. I always appreciate your help and feel like I know you from keeping up with your sitch. The back and forth with you and others on this site does help me to feel less alone in this situation.

Yeah, getting back to basics seems to be what I need to do. I think about the only thing I can control is me, but even that seems hard. I was not a bad husband to begin with, but I've tried to become better. I now see that although that is a good thing to work on, I think just becoming a better me in general is more what I should be focusing on, but that requires detaching and that is what I have such a hard time doing. I think that is why I think about leaving...because it would make it easier on me to emotionally detach from the situation and would give her the space she seems to need. I try to give it to her at home, but we live in a small house, it is hard to stay out of her way and when I avoid her, I know it just seems like I am avoiding her. Regarding the kids, that's why I can't move out, even if I think I want to. I love them too much and I think they really need me right now. I think it would be selfish of me to move out right now. And where would I go? I would find a place close by so that I could continue to play an active role in their lives. But thats a moot point because I don't actually see myself doing that...even though I want to.

As far as dates go, she didn't say she didn't want to, she said that we didn't do stuff together because I don't ever ask her on dates. I interpreted that as her wanting me to ask her. The result, though, is that she reschedules till we don't actually go on a date. Regardless, I think you are right that I need to just back off again, regardless of what she "says".

One day at a time is about all I can handle, but that has never been my MO. I'm a planner...I am always prepared. I am always ahead of the game in things. That does not seem possible in this situation so this DB process is so hard for me to maintain, even though I understand the wisdom in it.

I feel emotionally starved and I'm not sure how long I can go on like this. I see people on these boards deal with this for years...I don't know if I have that long left in me. Every day is a struggle for sanity. I get there, but how long can I keep it up? I keep thinking that if I could just detach that I could do it longer, but even though I have a little, I am not there. ugh...


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S John,

I think you need a break from d b. I think Roist gave me that advice when I felt like you. You know how you can exercise at max effort for very long? This is the same. Can you go on vacation or to a friend for a few days or if not, can you just say I’m not going to d b for the next 48 hours. I am just going to live without worrying about detaching or planning for the future? Try that so you can rest and recharge. This is a marathon and you only have to live today. Let go of planning right now... you didn’t expect this...and you have no idea what lies ahead. Peace.


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Not sure if I can go on vacation, but I can try and take a break from things. Not sure how well I can do that, but I'm going to try.

Just so hard to wrap my head around...last week things seemed to be going well. She was being nice, we were talking, she even initiated sex which she hasn't done in quite a while. Now the down cycle...which I guess I expected but hoped wouldn't come.

Gonna try and let it go for a day or so...


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Take the kids out to dinner. Go to the movies by yourself. Go get a masssage. Meet up with a friend. See a concert. Do something you don’t normally do. Pamper yourself. Put this out of your mind for just a few days. You can do this.


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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Yeah, getting back to basics seems to be what I need to do. I think about the only thing I can control is me, but even that seems hard. I was not a bad husband to begin with, but I've tried to become better. I now see that although that is a good thing to work on, I think just becoming a better me in general is more what I should be focusing on, but that requires detaching and that is what I have such a hard time doing. I think that is why I think about leaving...because it would make it easier on me to emotionally detach from the situation and would give her the space she seems to need. I try to give it to her at home, but we live in a small house, it is hard to stay out of her way and when I avoid her, I know it just seems like I am avoiding her. Regarding the kids, that's why I can't move out, even if I think I want to. I love them too much and I think they really need me right now. I think it would be selfish of me to move out right now. And where would I go? I would find a place close by so that I could continue to play an active role in their lives. But thats a moot point because I don't actually see myself doing that...even though I want to.


If you aren't detached, albeit from home with her, with her gone, or thoughts of you being gone making it easier...

You are mistaken...

Even if you left, you would still be attached to her..

Detaching isn't about a conscious decision to not think about her..

Detaching is more of a way of life.

A way of just living for you, regardless what the other person is doing or thinking about.

Detaching is you removing yourself from the daily crazy, and finding out who you are on your own..

From what I have read from you, I get the feeling that you are doing these things in the name of DBing, and still looking over your shoulder to see if she is watching, or if they are affecting her.

That will keep you stuck in the wheels of HER MLC....

It is imperative for YOU, to get yourself some relief.

How can you be something for anyone else, if you have nothing left for yourself ??


DB101

GAL

If something isn't working, try something new..

Don't go down cheeseless tunnels (see below)

Act, as if




Originally Posted By: sjohns6
As far as dates go, she didn't say she didn't want to, she said that we didn't do stuff together because I don't ever ask her on dates. I interpreted that as her wanting me to ask her. The result, though, is that she reschedules till we don't actually go on a date. Regardless, I think you are right that I need to just back off again, regardless of what she "says".


Her words and actions aren't matching up...

And until they do, you will have little traction on that hill...

(cheeseless tunnel)



Originally Posted By: sjohns6
I feel emotionally starved and I'm not sure how long I can go on like this. I see people on these boards deal with this for years...I don't know if I have that long left in me. Every day is a struggle for sanity. I get there, but how long can I keep it up? I keep thinking that if I could just detach that I could do it longer, but even though I have a little, I am not there. ugh...



Find something, anything, that is just for you..

What are you passionate about, other than your situation ???

Are you willing to sell yourself, just to be able to say that you are married ??

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Originally Posted By: Mach1
If you aren't detached, albeit from home with her, with her gone, or thoughts of you being gone making it easier...
You are mistaken...

That makes sense, it seems like if one of us were not around it would be easier to move on, but I realize that's unrealistic.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
From what I have read from you, I get the feeling that you are doing these things in the name of DBing, and still looking over your shoulder to see if she is watching, or if they are affecting her.

I won't argue that. I realize I am doing this and recognize that a change is needed if I'm to get better. I want to, just not been good at it thus far. I feel like I get close to the right mindset, and then something will happen to suck me back in. I'll keep at it...

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Find something, anything, that is just for you..
What are you passionate about, other than your situation ???
Are you willing to sell yourself, just to be able to say that you are married ??

It has been a while since I have felt passionate about anything. don't really feel much passion for the things I used to be interested in. I've tried picking up a few new things, but nothing seems to hold my interest much. I think I am having an issue allowing myself to become too interested in anything and i think that is more of an issue with my mindset more than it is with finding something I'm interested in. I won't give up as I know and understand the recipe for detaching/GAL, just have an issue with implementation. I know I can get there eventually, just wish there was a button I could push that would detach me from my situation.

Thank you Gordie and Mach for helping me along. Some days I need it more than others...this week has been one for needing a supportive ear that can give advice and 2x4's if needed. I hope I can help others at some point as much as you guys help me.


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So start small, and work your way up...

DB101...

What can you do today, FOR YOURSELF, to take your attention off of your sitch for a while ???

Each journey, begins with a small step...

Tell me about you...

Just paragraph or two...

Nothing about her...

Nothing about kids...

Just you..

What are you into ??

Sports ?

Woodworking ?

Music ???

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Originally Posted By: Mach1
Tell me about you...


About me not regarding her or the kids? You know, I've been with her since I was a teenager so that will be a challenge, but I'll give it a go.

I recently turned 40 and was born and raised in Texas. I enjoy outdoorsy stuff. I like to camp, hike, and bike. I enjoy road trips and meeting new people and exploring cities and towns I've never been to. I like to build and fix things. I like working on computers (building and fixing them, not necessarly performing work funtions from a computer terminal). I enjoy reading, but for the last 15 years or so I've enjoyed audiobooks so that I can enjoy books while doing other activities at the same time. My favorite genre is scifi, but I listen/read a little bit of everything. I also enjoy music and seeing bands play. Fr the last 15 years or so I have been interested in the UFO phenomenon and have researched it extensively. I've been to many international UFO conferences, read at least 50 books on the subject, and have met most of the people you see on UFO specials on TV. I learned in the last 8-10 years that I like to cook and am pretty good at it. I have been going to the gym recently, but I wouldn't say its something I enjoy so much as I find it cathardic and recognize its good for me.

From around the time I started high school all the way till now, I have been interested in people and what makes them tic. I have watched people and their behavior for so long that I've developed kind of a 6th sense for understanding people and what drives them. Being able to predict their behavior based on observing them and understanding why they make the choices they do. This is just an interest, nothing to do with my job or a hobby. Sometimes its a blessing and sometimes a curse.

I'll go ahead and list a few things that I have an interest in learning but have not had the capacity as of late to get myself in to. I've always wanted to learn a matial art, take a dance class of some sort, learn a new language, and maybe learn to brew beer. I'm not a big drinker, but the process of brewing I find intriguing and I do enjoy good craft beers socially.

Hmm...just listing that out strangely made me feel a little better. Think its been a while since I actually gave myself a second though...let alone a couple paragraphs worth. Thank you.


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Oh...and I used to play a lot of disc golf before having kids since there was a course close to our house. I really enjoyed that as the courses are generally pretty woodsy so its like target practice with a Frisbee in the woods. Almost forgot to list that one.


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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Tell me about you...


About me not regarding her or the kids? You know, I've been with her since I was a teenager so that will be a challenge, but I'll give it a go.

I recently turned 40 and was born and raised in Texas. I enjoy outdoorsy stuff. I like to camp, hike, and bike. I enjoy road trips and meeting new people and exploring cities and towns I've never been to. I like to build and fix things. I like working on computers (building and fixing them, not necessarly performing work funtions from a computer terminal). I enjoy reading, but for the last 15 years or so I've enjoyed audiobooks so that I can enjoy books while doing other activities at the same time. My favorite genre is scifi, but I listen/read a little bit of everything. I also enjoy music and seeing bands play. Fr the last 15 years or so I have been interested in the UFO phenomenon and have researched it extensively. I've been to many international UFO conferences, read at least 50 books on the subject, and have met most of the people you see on UFO specials on TV. I learned in the last 8-10 years that I like to cook and am pretty good at it. I have been going to the gym recently, but I wouldn't say its something I enjoy so much as I find it cathardic and recognize its good for me.


I'm not going to invalidate you...

I worked with a guy a few years back, who made himself a tin-foil hat to wear at work so that the aliens wouldn't infiltrate his thoughts. He would duck his head in and out the door about 15 times before he would walk outside....

That isn't you is it ?

Seriously though...

What genre of music ??

A+ certified ?

what is your specialty when you cook ?

There used to be (back in the heydays) a cooking thread open almost all the time....

Maybe we should start a new one ???



Originally Posted By: sjohns6
From around the time I started high school all the way till now, I have been interested in people and what makes them tic. I have watched people and their behavior for so long that I've developed kind of a 6th sense for understanding people and what drives them. Being able to predict their behavior based on observing them and understanding why they make the choices they do. This is just an interest, nothing to do with my job or a hobby. Sometimes its a blessing and sometimes a curse.


Right there with you...

I am a people watcher, not so much a people interact-er...



Originally Posted By: sjohns6
I'll go ahead and list a few things that I have an interest in learning but have not had the capacity as of late to get myself in to. I've always wanted to learn a matial art, take a dance class of some sort, learn a new language, and maybe learn to brew beer. I'm not a big drinker, but the process of brewing I find intriguing and I do enjoy good craft beers socially.


So a new goal...

DB101

Which one of those things , will you plan to make happen within the next two weeks ??



Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Hmm...just listing that out strangely made me feel a little better. Think its been a while since I actually gave myself a second though...let alone a couple paragraphs worth. Thank you.


Welcome...

You are the only one that can help you...

You are the only reason that you are in limbo...

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lol...no, I'm not one of the crazies, but I've met my fair share of them. I have a genuine interest in the phenomenon, but I don't buy in to most of it. What gets me is if there is even ONE legit UFO type experience out of the millions and millions reported over the centuries, that means something. Most of it is garbage, though. Still interesting.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
What genre of music??

For music I mainly listen to rock of all kinds. About the only thing I don't care a whole lot for (don't hate, just not my thing) is country and really heavy metal. Lately I've been liking bands like Glass Animals and Miike Snow. They are more indie rock which is something I've only recently started enjoying.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
A+ certified?

I am A+ certified, but I also have my MCSA. For work I am a server engineer. My current work is in disaster recovery but I've done a little bit of everything.[/quote]

Originally Posted By: Mach1
what is your specialty when you cook?

I tend to be really good at baking. I don't eat a lot of cakes, but I get requests to make them all the time. Breakfast foods are where I shine, but I make a great spaghetti and have won contests for my chili. I'm from Texas, but I still like beans in my chili. A cooking forum sounds fun!I'm down!

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Right there with you...I am a people watcher, not so much a people interact-er...

Growing up I was that way too. I was always on the edge of a crowd...not interacting, just observing. Then, after 8th grade I switched from a public school to a private school for my freshman year. That year I decided that none of those kids knew me and that I could be whoever I wanted to be. I felt insecure, but I pretended to be the popular kid, and I became that. The next year I went back to the public school with a lot more confidence then I had before I left. I still was a people watcher and my tendency is to lurk in the background, but I learned to be outgoing when I wanted to be.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Which one of those things , will you plan to make happen within the next two weeks ??

Good question. I have started a few language programs on Rosetta Stone, but that's something that I kind of do at home. For this exercise I want to pick something outside the house. I think I'll look in to some martial arts classes. I think that might be a good fit for me right now.

Originally Posted By: Mach1
You are the only reason that you are in limbo...

thats a hard realization, but a true one. I don't want to be in limbo, so maybe I can get myself out of it!


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+1 for Martial Arts

It’ll get you out of the house on a regular basis and you will meet a different set of people than you know today. I hear you on not loving the gym so encourage you to try something that will make it fun like Martial Arts or a aerobic dance class or CrossFit.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
What genre of music??

For music I mainly listen to rock of all kinds. About the only thing I don't care a whole lot for (don't hate, just not my thing) is country and really heavy metal. Lately I've been liking bands like Glass Animals and Miike Snow. They are more indie rock which is something I've only recently started enjoying.


Indie/punk/ska-punk...

I started going to some concerts a few years ago with my Son. Local places, 200-300 people max in a few of them.

A few of the shows, had less than 50 people there. Really freakin cool actually.

Modern Baseball/TFB/Joyce Manor, DCFC, just to name a few...

Pinegrove is one of my favorites that I picked up from him. You should check them out.

I am more of a Grunge guy, raised on classic rock. Although I am learning new things through him.





Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
what is your specialty when you cook?

I tend to be really good at baking. I don't eat a lot of cakes, but I get requests to make them all the time. Breakfast foods are where I shine, but I make a great spaghetti and have won contests for my chili. I'm from Texas, but I still like beans in my chili. A cooking forum sounds fun!I'm down!


I have a really good Texas Chili that I make. We may have to have the first annual DB Chili cook off !!!

Cadet has had my Chili (amongst other various things)...We should let him judge ??

Hey Cadet !!! Free food !!!!

: )




Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Which one of those things , will you plan to make happen within the next two weeks ??

Good question. I have started a few language programs on Rosetta Stone, but that's something that I kind of do at home. For this exercise I want to pick something outside the house. I think I'll look in to some martial arts classes. I think that might be a good fit for me right now.



Suggestion....

Don't use something that you can take or leave at any time...

Sign up for something that keeps you involved.

You can listen to Rosetta Stone at anytime...

Signing up for a class allows you to commit to the program....




Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
You are the only reason that you are in limbo...

thats a hard realization, but a true one. I don't want to be in limbo, so maybe I can get myself out of it!


It's true, and eye opening when you can see it...

You chose to stand for your marriage...

Nobody else made that decision...

The trick is, to stand, yet NOT stand still...

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DB Chilli cook off u say??? I'm in smile


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Gordie, I think you are right! The more I thought about martial arts it really started to resonate with me. Its good exercise,
its on a schedule, and its something I've always wanted to do but never have. Think I'll sign up for something this week. Any suggestions on what kind? Judo, jujitsu, karate?

Mach, awesome! Thanks, I'll check out those bands. I really like small venues and love seeing new bands. I've seen Cake, Gomez, Alt J, and Willie Nelson at small venues (to name a few). Always better that way!

Chili cook off huh? I am so down for that. Rick1963, bring it! I like eating chili just as much as making it! Cadet can judge smile

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Suggestion....

Don't use something that you can take or leave at any time...

Sign up for something that keeps you involved.

You can listen to Rosetta Stone at anytime...

Signing up for a class allows you to commit to the program....

Agreed. Gordie was saying the same thing. Not sure about a language class, but signing up for martial arts would get me out of the house on a schedule.


Originally Posted By: Mach1
It's true, and eye opening when you can see it...

You chose to stand for your marriage...

Nobody else made that decision...

The trick is, to stand, yet NOT stand still...


Truth. Starting to see it. Just need to hold on to it. Thank you guys for helping me with that. I really needed it. Its easy to get stuck in your own rabbit hole.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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Originally Posted By: sjohns6
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Suggestion....

Don't use something that you can take or leave at any time...

Sign up for something that keeps you involved.

You can listen to Rosetta Stone at anytime...

Signing up for a class allows you to commit to the program....



Agreed. Gordie was saying the same thing. Not sure about a language class, but signing up for martial arts would get me out of the house on a schedule.



How is that ^^^ coming along ???

How are you doing ??

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Hey there. Decided to check back in. I need to step away from the boards sometimes.

Things have been up and down. Generally I am able to keep from R talks and no pressure, but then something happens and my resolve slips.

About a month ago I had a slip up and snooped her phone. I had a weird feeling about her interactions with one of my son's friends dads. I found some texts between them that were inappropriate. He was the one sending the inappropriate stuff, but she didn't tell him to stop and seemed to enjoy it. To clarify, I did not think that they were messing around, but inappropriate is inappropriate and she claims to be "working" on things. This man is married and W is friends with his W.

I confronted her about it and she said that there was nothing between them. She then got really mad that I looked at her phone and said that she had thought things were getting better but she guessed not. She changed the PIN on her phone and then changed the password on my cell phone account. I did not realize this right away, but I saw my daughter try to play on her phone days later and she was unable to get in it due to the new PIN code. I attempted to log in to the cell phone account days later to check the bill and realized the password was different. I decided to just leave it that way and not discuss it.

That was a month ago, and over the weeks things seemed to smooth out again. I just continued trying to detach and not pressure anything. Then, a little over a week ago, she left to go to yoga around lunch time while I stayed home with our son who was sick. She also planned on going out in the evening with a girlfriend to see a band play. There wasn't a discussion, but I decided to go do my own thing once she got back from yoga. After about 3 hours, I called her to see how long she would be so that I could figure out my plans. She did not answer. She finally came home around 7:30...she was gone for 7 hours. I was very angry. She had only been hanging out with her brothers, but she didn't tell me she would be gone all day and then come home and leave again. At that point I left and she had to stay home to care for our son. My argument to her was that if she was so unhappy that she couldn't stay married then she needed to leave...but if she was going to stay that she needed to treat me with respect and be equal with me. She needed to give me the same space as she was requiring.

After a few days, things smoothed out again. Last Friday she had lunch with her brother and he advised her to not lead me on if she had no intentions of staying or had already checked out. That is wasn't fair to me to act like she was working things out if that isn't what she was doing. She came home and initiated a talk in that regard. She didn't say she was leaving, but indicated she didn't want to hurt me. I thought the fact that she initiated a talk at all seemed positive. I was calm and only validated.

For the last few days things have been ok. We have talked normally and generally gotten along. With the idea that she might be leaving (not sure thats the case but easier to think that way after the talk) the feeling of detachment has seemed easier. Then came today...

Our cell phone bill is now due and I am still unable to log in to the account without forcing a password recovery. To be honest, I've kind of liked not being able to snoop her phone, but the bill needs to be paid. While getting ready for work I mentioned that I needed her to log in to the account and pay the bill. She simply said OK. That bugged me as we have not had a conversation about her locking me out of my account. I asked her if she was OK with the arrangement and she said yes. Then she asked if I would rather her transfer her phone to her own account. That really made me mad. She is asking me to trust her after all of this, but she can't trust me because I looked at her phone over a month ago? I was not mean, but I spoke my mind.

I seem to get a handle on myself for a bit, and then I lose site. I honestly think it would be easier if she moved out. I know it wouldn't fix our problems nor would I feel better initially, but I think it would give me some space to move past things without getting caught up in little everyday interactions.

After I got to work I did another thing I probably shouldn't have done...I sent her an email. It was basically apologizing for attacking her before work. I also said that we needed to be able to trust each other. I said that I had been working on my own trust issues with her and had been doing well with it but didn't know what it would take for her to trust me. I said that regardless of whether I deserved her mistrust or not, that I wanted to work on getting past it. There was a little more, but that was the gist of it.

So now I am going to be leaving work soon to go home and am really not sure how to handle things. Part of me thinks I need to just leave it alone and let things blow over again, but part of me thinks that I need to discuss her mistrust at a more appropriate time than we did this morning. The reason I feel that way is because I feel like we are on the brink of separation and that if she is going to continue mistrusting me for practically nothing and not be willing to work on it while expecting me to trust her after an EA, then maybe it time to go ahead and cut our losses.

In other news, I did sign up for Brazilian Jujitsu. I've had 2 classes so far and I really like it.


Me: 45 yrs
W: 43 yrs
Together: 20 yrs
Married: 15 yrs
Son: 19 yrs
Daughter: 18 yrs
BD: Jan 2017
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S,

Great to hear from you. I understand taking a break from the board. That’s healthy too. So reading through your post:

W still seems undecided if she wants to be M or not.

She doesn’t want you looking at her phone.

She wants to come and go as she pleases without telling you.

She is text flirting with other guys.

This does not sound like a woman who is working on her M.

Is this okay with you or not?

If okay, then take all pressure off. No R talks. Just live your own life as if she is not your wife, just the mother of your child. A roommate. An extended family member with whom you are not close. Give her a lot of space and time to think. This is where I am now.

What is your boundary? What would make you say you are not okay wth this?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
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Welcome back!

New Thread:

Still treading water

Last edited by job; 03/20/18 01:28 PM. Reason: added link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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