Hi OwnIt and Job - thank you both so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this.
Job - I see the point in not trying to diagnosis the MLCer. Because we are not psychs, we are emotionally involved, and we lack the depth of experience, how do we know what we are seeing/reporting is really NPD. I get it. At least logically.
It is still very tempting! Lol! Partially because from my understanding of NPD it is very difficult to treat. And that gives me very little reason to hope for change. This is why I am so concerned about whether he really is on the unhealthy end of the narcissist spectrum.
There are times when I think I can't take any more. And others when I can manage just one more day.
When it comes right down to it, I often ponder the question I have seen asked around here and that is along the lines of what would I be doing if H were dead. I wouldn't be doing anything differently, right now at least. If H were dead, I would give myself some time to mourn and heal and then I would probably start dating.
Mother's Day went barely acknowledged. He left me a card in S's room from S. But other than that, he didn't utter a word about it. Not surprising.
More PA behavior. At least I think it's PA. At dinner yesterday evening, S was chewing on a piece of food that was too large for his mouth. S started gagging. I was closest to S and I was watching him closely to see if he started choking. H snottily said aren't you going to do anything, hit him on the back. (I wanted to hit H. Lol!) I calmly turned to H and told him that hitting someone if they are choking/gagging can make the situation worse. If S was really choking, then I would act. He responded, "oh."
I get really tired of him trying to paint me as a bad mom. He really believes I am going to just sit by and let my S choke to death? I honestly don't get it. It doesn't occur to him that the old wives tales that he buys into aren't real solutions. He just cannot stop for one second to think that maybe there is a really good reason why I do what I do. He immediately goes to guns and assumes the worse. I am getting very frustrated at this behavior. I am doing my best to respond calmly. I suppose it is all I can do. To point out what he is doing would just fall on deaf ears.
I feel like no matter what I say or how it's said, it won't make the tiniest of difference. In fact, I feel like anything I say, even if done nicely, will only get twisted around and used as ammunition against me. I really don't like this feeling.
I would love to be able to talk to him about this. But I don't feel that right now, it would do anything productive.
So I continue to do what I do, and that is stay calm, and do nothing.
Hi Fighton! I'm sorry your H didn't do anything much for Mother's Day. Maybe you can take the high road for Father's and show him you aren't PA like him!
I think you really have so much patience when he is clearly pushing your buttons. I'm not sure I could act calmly and with grace like you have been doing. Hopefully soon he will realise that he can't get a reaction out of you anymore and will cease!
(((Fighton)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
My h also has shown tremendous PA behaviors throughout his MLC. Hard as it is, I found not reacting (verbally or by body language) diminished the behaviors drastically. As Job says, this is learned behavior and I think they try to recreate a dynamic that, though dysfunctional, feels good because it is familiar to them from earlier days. Sadly, I do think it was a sort of "method" by which they learned to communicate in childhood.
When the PA is in your face, like when he makes snide comments, I would calmly but directly look him in the eye and ask: "what do you mean by that?" Then I would not say a word; just listen. You may be surprised by his reaction. When confronted many of them back peddle and stammer for words.
In general, I have found that I have had to teach my h that PA behaviors do not get him the reaction he wants. If you can get him to answer "what he means by his comments," then validate and say "thanks for explaining" even if you don't agree with what he says.
Like a child: try to ignore the bad, elicit the good and then praise.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho - I love your advice. I am going to give that a try. Ignoring the comments hasn't deterred him. Perhaps he isn't even aware of the PA nature of the comments; I have read people who use this coping mechanism lack self awareness. By asking him what he means, this may give him pause. AND it's something different since what I am doing doesn't seem to be working for me. Doing nothing is starting to cause me to feel like a door mat.
My SIL, H's youngest sister, and her H are divorcing. Her H has moved into an apartment with his OW, but continues to deny the ongoing relationship to SIL and all their family and friends. SIL's H has turned into a man I barely recognize. Like my H, he looks the same appearance-wise, but the actual man we all knew, is gone. SIL texted me today that they put their house on the market. She is devastated.
SIL H's has repeated the same script. Not happy for years, never should have gotten married, etc. etc. It's all pure script.
It's all just so sad that people can blow up their lives like this. My heart aches for all the pain and suffering she is enduring. If anyone knows, all of us here do.
Had to SMH and giggle a little at your H's PA stuff. It'll be funny to see if he tries new things.
You're right, don't waste your time trying to re-write the movie that's playing in their head. They have a skill to try and turn things around no matter what you say. They are very busy working their new story of being the victim that's turning their life around for the first time ever. You, meanwhile, suddenly look like Darth Vader, Nurse Ratched and Hannibal Lecter all rolled into one.
I've learned to get on with my day and ignore my W and pretty much function without her. She tries new PA ways to project anger or annoyance with me, such as...
1. If she clean dishes and recognizes a pan or bowl I used to prepare a meal, she won't clean it. She will clean all dishes except those. When she puts clean dishes away, she will put away all dishes except that pan or bowl that I used. She strategically places in the middle of the kitchen counter for me to put away.
2. W just built a cubby near the front door to keep shoes - except mine, of course! If I put any shoes in the cubby, she throws them across the bedroom towards the foot of my closet door.
3. If I go out for the evening, she always makes a point to order take out food. I don't get it. They're teenagers, after all. I wonder if she's saying "Look how much fun I had while you were out with this yummy food!"
Staying calm and doing nothing - while really difficult - is the best thing to do. It's hard for me, too. I hear you there!
My W I barely recognize as well. They are all on an island by themselves.
Keep expecting your H to "go to guns and expect the worst". They want to escalate, because they want you to be mad, and they want you to be as miserable as them.
I've only been living with an MLCer for about 1� years. I think we all need to keep working on detaching. It's an evolution, it's a constant work in progress. I learn new detachment moves, then I backslide one day. I think I get the hang of it, then something new happens with my W.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
Your W's PA behavior also got a chuckle out of me. If you don't laugh at it all, what's left to do? Cry? Beat the wall?
S had picture day today at daycare. The flyers were posted all around the facility for about three weeks. While H hasn't been there at the drop off for the past week, he has been there for the drop offs while the flyers were up.
This morning as I was getting S dressed, I mentioned it. H looked astonished. "I didn't know. I haven't been going to drop off for a week because you aren't ready by 7:15. I've been meaning to ask you what I can to do help." I politely responded that the flyers have been up for weeks.
Part of me does want to give him a list of things he can to help in the morning, but another part of me thinks, no, you need to figure that out. You don't want to be married anymore, so why should I behave like a wife. He needs to wake up and pay attention to the things that need to get done in the morning and just do them. Maybe I am being too harsh and I should hold his hand a little. I dunno.
Part of me thinks I should have reminded him about the photos this morning. But another part of me thinks, he needs to wake up and pay attention. It's no longer my job to remind him of these things.
I have suspected all along he did not pay attention to the flyers and did not realize this morning was picture day. I could have brought it up earlier in the week.
I still carry resentment for the lack of attention he paid to these types of things before BD and my having to constantly remind him. So I do wrangle with the notion that I didn't bring it up both out of resentment, but also because I don't feel it's my responsibility to be his secretary anymore. Perhaps it is one of those instances where it is a little bit of both?
Some of this is not knowing my boundaries. For instance, there are some "wifely" things I continue to do, like cook dinner most nights and plan everything for S. But there are other things I no longer do, like his laundry, remind him of upcoming events or bills. So I imagine, from his perspective, things are a bit confusing. I don't know how to lay down the law in a way that he will understand and not push him away even more. And I am not sure that is even possible.
This distress comes from guilt at not reminding him this morning because that is what I have always done coupled with a desire do something different, because I feel like things are stagnate. Maybe things need to be stagnate for a little while longer while he sorts himself out? Maybe this is what happens in MLC land? Sometimes I wonder if I am being impatient and think that I can actually do something to shake things up because I know I can't.
I do think I need to fade into the background so he can take his focus off of me and focus on himself. But things like this morning don't do that. If I would have reminded him, then it would be status quo, but I think I would have just been more resentful for taking on a wifely responsibility. Maybe status quo for now really is the best and I should just suck it up a little more.
There has been some strange movement in MLC land and I wanted to get the community's thoughts. I have read that sometimes the MLCer will move toward the LBS and then suddenly retract.
Why do they do this?
Over the long holiday weekend, H appeared to move, ever so incrementally, toward me. Very small things. For instance, I ran out of coffee cream on Saturday morning. H offered to run to the local coffee joint to pick some up for me. I declined his offer.
H went to the grocery store on Saturday and picked up some steaks to grill yesterday. He even made my favorite rub and marinade.
Then almost suddenly, yesterday afternoon, while he was grilling he was on his phone a lot and then seemed to distance himself from me and S. Almost like a light switch. I didn't mention it nor did I react to it. I am doing my best to ignore it and detach.
I am just noticing the tiny steps toward and now back. I don't understand this.
He is attracted to you and still has feelings for you and then realizes that he shouldn't be warming up to you, so he backs off. He needs to justify why he left or feels the way he does, so he can't have those warm and fuzzy feelings for you and that's why he distances himself once again. Also, it could be part of the distance/pursuer game too. They come close, we start to think that they are waking up and begin to have hope, etc. The best thing to do is stay the course and allow him to flit around and see if he continues to come close.
They remind me of a moth who is attracted to a candle. They come close and slit around the candle and when the flame is put out, they flit away once again.
Stay the course and continue as you have been.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Fight, mine does this stuff. It comes in cycles. He spirals in toward the kids, the house, and even me, and then it feels icky and he runs off again. In his case the cycles seem to be getting closer together. It has been going on since the first of the year. I'm curious how he will behave after my S's upcoming birthday on Father's Day. My D will leave shortly thereafter for a month. I predict he'll disappear for quite a bit after. We'll see. Doesn't really change anything I am doing.
