Fight, I feel like you are buying into what he says about you and you are believing it at times and at others trying to prove him wrong. What he says is irrelevant. It is word salad. The guy he is right now is no good for you and your son period. Nothing else matters. You work on you. A divorce is a piece of paper. If he comes back as someone you can deal with great, if not, just not being around that negativity and posturing day in and day out will be a blessing. 25 is right, narcissists like little kids. They don't like kids who talk back and have opinions. He is not going to be playing super dad forever. I have to deal with mine very little and usually only when I worry about the kids and try to get him to see them. Note to self--stop doing that. You can do this Fight. You are stronger than you think you are.
25 - thank you for the reassurance regarding H's visitation rights. Others in real life had told me the same. I hope you are right.
OwnIt - you hit the nail on the head. Sometimes I do buy into what he says about me. Maybe more during the marriage as opposed to now, but I am sure some of those uncertainties still linger. I am desperately trying to resolve in my mind what issues are mind and what are his. H has done a lot of projection and blaming so I am sorting through what I really need to own.
For example, my son's electric toothbrush has stopped working. H has been to the store on a number of occasions since it has stopped working, but hasn't bought a new one. He has bought sundries for himself and OW. In the past, before MLC, I would have expected H to be thoughtful and helpful and to have enough forsight to buy a new one. (Of course, now, I expect the current behavior he is displaying.)
In a normal, non-MLC relationship, would that really be too much to expect? Under normal, non-MLC circumstances, would that be unreasonable of me?
When I stand back and think about it, I certainly don't think so.
It is these kind of things that I question. What do I need to own? What is him and what is me? If it is me, then I want to add whatever the issue is to the list of things I want to work on.
We are working on the arrangements for attending the wedding; it's in mid June. We will be staying at a hotel together in the same room. Ugh. Part of me wants my own room, but another part of me thinks this might just be me wanting to punish H, so I won't push the issue. If he becomes too annoying, I can leave.
I don't mind watching S during the wedding. Plus, he will be a convenient excuse to leave early. Oftentimes, I can only take so much of his family.
I think you have to leave the universe of normal. People in MLC (and narcissists and PAs) have no empathy. He is not going to think about you and S. The "empathy" for the OW is nothing more than love bombing. It isn't real.
Next time, you go out and buy the toothbrush and stop waiting for him to do it or take notice. You cannot have expectations of this man. If he does something nice or thoughtful, thank him for it (even if it is something a decent person would have done).
Thank you for the input OwnIt. I don't expect him to buy it. Not at all.
You are so right about the NPD/PA lacking empathy. Thank you for reminding me about the love bombing nonsense. It is really crazy. And frankly, I am surprised it has been going on as long as it has. I would have thought it would have fizzled out by now. I am sure it is draining for him to put forth so much effort it's hard to believe he can keep it up for this long. Lol! Of course, this, causes me to wonder, is it because of me? He could put in all this tremendous effort for someone else, but not me? It must mean there is something wrong with me.
Am I jealous, yea, kinda. How I would have loved for H to put this much attention and focus on me and our relationship.
But I digress.
I was wondering if I were in a normal relationship with a normal human being, if I were to expect my significant other to think of and buy the toothbrush is that too much to ask? Would my expectation under those circumstances be too high?
I am asking because I am sincerely concerned that my expectations of others might be too high. I don't know if this is a real issue or something H is using as an excuse/justification/projection/etc., etc. I want to know for ME to work on ME. Lol! If my expectations of my significant others is too high, then that is something I will need to investigate to be a better person.
No, that is completely rationale and normal. One of the ways I can tell whether mine is "checked in" to me is whether he is doing things for me. I figured out his LL is acts of service. On his last touch and go in March he figured out that our cats were chewing through all of our power cords and went out and bought some for us. This time he is cleaning out the garage. When he lived at home, if he was giving me my vitamins every day then I knew he was in. As soon as he stopped, I knew he was out.
From what I've read NPD usually has a 3-6 month period they can wear the mask. My guy is definitely a three monther. After that, it is too tiring for them. It literally takes all their energy. Keep in mind also that it generally takes something like 7 tries to leave an NPD relationship. Therefore, they could be bickering, fighting, and making up for all you know. Again, that is what mine does.
They grow weary of the time and attention they have to put into the relationship. Also the lovebombing, the feigning interest in another, not being the one who is catered to. They begin the silent treatments, the hot and cold behaviors, lying, cheating, etc.
Mine quickly starting fighting with the OW (I saw the phone records). Within 2 months of him moving into her house, they were broken up again. They got back together for another month or so and then I think she ended it for good (she is borderline--they paint people black and tend not to go back).
The 7 tries could be the OW or even your own. Narcissists dont leave permanently. They always reserve the right to come back if low on supply. Some have even come back 20 years later. They do lots of temp checks along the way.
As with MLC, the relationship is over when you say so. Do you reaaly want to deal with this the rest of your life?
I've been reading and following along on the conversation about the NPD and personality issues. Just as we put a label for odd behavior and the irrational behavior here as MLC, let's be careful in attempting to diagnosis personality disorders of our wayward spouses.
You may already be aware that as children and young adults, they do exhibit some of the selfish, self-absorbed behavior, as well as wanting everything to be about them while singing the song entitled "Me, Me, Me". They become infatuated w/someone and they pull out every little trick to get that person's attention, etc. and once the euphoria has worn off or that person can't serve their needs, they tend to break it off. As well as fighting and getting back together w/some people. Children tend not to like to share their toys w/others and do not like it when others get more attention than they do. They can become a bit mean to others when they see that the attention is being put elsewhere and not on them. In many cases, the behaviors that carry thru life as "learned" behaviors, i.e., just as Passive Aggressive behavior is a "learned" behavior. To them at a young age, it is for survival.
At midlife, those that can't cope and haven't learned to navigate the stressors of life during their quarter lifes' crises, they can and most of them will exhibit various symptoms of some personality disorders. The real question is this...think back... did your spouse always have these symptoms and you just overlooked them or did they come out to play during his crisis? If you say that they are more pronounced or came out to play during the crisis, then I would venture to say he/she may not have the true blue NPD or Borderline. Only a trained professional can tell you this.
Try to remember that your spouse has gone back to a time when he/she was emotionally stunted, most likely as a child or young adult. He/she has to figure out to face those issues and begin to navigate the process of growing up. Many of the behaviors and comments you hear are from his/her past. They really are trying to find themselves, the inner child is busting out and needs to grow up. So, yes, we do see a lot of personality issues and it's human nature to try to pinpoint which behaviors they are exhibiting.
BTW, it's only natural that you are searching for answers for their behavior. I did it too a long time ago. I read every book and article that I could find and at the end of the day, I realized that my xh had to figure things out for himself and that I would never find all of the pieces of the puzzle to figure him or his childhood out. I came to realize that I only had one life and I was going to live it to the fullest. If he ever work up, I would then cross that bridge...but he's still out there searching for that illusive happiness, while I am putting my focus on me and my life.
You and only you, can decide when you've had enough. There is no guarantee that if and when your spouse wakes up that he/she will be the same. Some will wake up and bring along some of the behaviors that they had during the crisis and others will be completely different and, there are those that never wake up and remain lost people. Both you and your spouse will have changed because of the experiences that you've had along the way...but we can't predict the future and again, you are the only one that can determine how long you wish to keep the door open and the candle burning in the window.
There are some books on the Recommended Reading Materials thread that may be of interest to you. Here's the link go the Recommended Reading Material:
Last edited by job; 05/11/1710:23 AM. Reason: Added a link to another thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Great points Job and ones I struggle with greatly with mine. There were some indicators of selfishness before the "crisis" but they were nothing in compared to the behavior now. I have been told by several counselors that stress, crisis, divorce, etc. magnify the behaviors and they can calm down again. I hope this is true for Fight if she wants to stick it out.
The counselors are correct. When the stressors are removed, they should calm down...but it takes time for this to happen, i.e., people need to remember that the crisis didn't happen over night, it has taken years for it to come to the point of bubbling up to the surface and spewing. It will take a while before a person in crisis finally settles down. Some settle down quickly and others...well, it takes them a long time. Unfortunately, it's not something that we can predict.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
